“there is plenty of quests that want you to kill them for food or leather.”
Yes it is called hunting, you do it for your survival and that of the society that needs food and leather.
Sorry but I just saw this and the OP’s post as rather bleeding heart. Yes we do certain tasks too much in MMO’s for them to be realistic, but it’s a game, it is not going to be totally realistic. I don’t really think I am a knight because I spend all my time in plate armour, nor do I think I am a mass murderer because I kill lots of things.
I'm surprised by the offended. I thought it was fairly well known that we all play extremely sadistic, vampiric beings in MMOs, wherein gameplay revolves around slaughtering to increase your power, Elric of Melniboné-style. Nothing sanctimonious about pointing out objective fact.
'Mass murderer' is inaccurate when there is usually a convenient war (or twenty) on, but I'm pretty sure you all know what is meant by it. We certainly don't play soldiers. Sociopathic mercenaries, at best. Mercenaries with not only a job to kill, but a need to.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
I agree mass murderer is not accurate, but we could say they turn you into a killing machine, which is pretty sad. I don't want to be a killing machine, specially if I play a knight or a paladin, the sword should be used seldomly.
Aion is shyly making steps toward this direction. I remember in a small camp site, there are two quest givers. One asks you to kill birds that are annoying them. The other one, tells you that killing the birds dosent' seem right and asks you to find a plant to make a sleeping potion to give to the birds.
I know killing in a video game doesn't make you killer. This is not the issue. The issue is, what do you enjoy being in a video game. I certainly don't enjoy being a killer.
I have my ethics when playing an MMO, I try not to fight any person or animal that doesn't attack me first. I know it might sound silly, but feels good.
I hit them with my Sword of Teleportation. Yeah thats right! I hit 'em a couple of times and some energy builds up. There are some red pixels that fly around that tell you how much power the sword has. Finally when there's anough of those red pixels they teleport to the nearest shrine. It's really satisfying - Its like I'm a buss driver or an airline pilot.
Other games have Beam of Rebirth attached to their spaceship. I point my beam on people and they are reborn in an egg. Just like mystical phoenix, free and healthy!
I'm really helping these people!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I thought about this a bit, and I realized that most characters don't murder things in MMO's.
The simple fact is that murder involves making something dead. Since virtually every mob and player in MMO's respawn, they don't stay dead, therefore, they are not murdered. Mugged and abused, maybe, but not murdered. Nor do they remember what happened to them.
Kill that innocent piggy in the Valley of Trials? Cry not, for it'll be back in 30 secs, and it will show no signs of physical or mental trauma. Thus, no actual real harm has come to said mob... I mean... piggy.
So, my fellow MMO playing friends, you may now "kill" away with a clear conscience.
Well, you don't *have* to play a mass murderer in EvE, but you generally do. If not, you'll need somebody you trust a whole lot to do your mass murdering for you while you mine/research/build.
I don't murder people! I hit them with my Sword of Teleportation. Yeah thats right! I hit 'em a couple of times and some energy builds up. There are some red pixels that fly around that tell you how much power the sword has. Finally when there's anough of those red pixels they teleport to the nearest shrine. It's really satisfying - Its like I'm a buss driver or an airline pilot. Other games have Beam of Rebirth attached to their spaceship. I point my beam on people and they are reborn in an egg. Just like mystical phoenix, free and healthy! I'm really helping these people!
Quality post.
I can accept we become an individual who resorts to fighting as a solution too quickly, but that is from our modern perspective. Most people in the world are not in a state of war that these games put us in, this is why it seems we are fighting too much.
Any MMORPGs where we dont roleplay a mass murderer?
Avoid games that the only way to get anything is to kill NPCs.
I have been playing an alt in DAoC who only do business, buying materials (looted armor mostly) from players, turn them to materials and craft. With a few maxed crafters, I can provide a full serviced shop. But I admit, I have one alt camped outside the frontier in our keep. I log him on when the frontier heats up.
I have pure crafting alts in WoW. Level 65 just for crafting. I never use him to kill anything, just tag along and let people feed him xp. These people will enjoy my free crafting services. I know I get level 65 with others helping me kill. Am I still a mass murderer?
Any MMORPGs where we dont roleplay a mass murderer?
Didn't know killing made up creatures on a computer in a fantasy world is mass murder. Think someone escaped the hippy commune after one too many special cookies.
I don't murder people! I hit them with my Sword of Teleportation. Yeah thats right! I hit 'em a couple of times and some energy builds up. There are some red pixels that fly around that tell you how much power the sword has. Finally when there's anough of those red pixels they teleport to the nearest shrine. It's really satisfying - Its like I'm a buss driver or an airline pilot. Other games have Beam of Rebirth attached to their spaceship. I point my beam on people and they are reborn in an egg. Just like mystical phoenix, free and healthy! I'm really helping these people!
Quality post.
I can accept we become an individual who resorts to fighting as a solution too quickly, but that is from our modern perspective. Most people in the world are not in a state of war that these games put us in, this is why it seems we are fighting too much.
Loved that post too. And it's a valid point. But, we have to take into account our brain and how it deals with basic emotions. The concept of "this is a videogame, pixels that will spawn, so no harm done" this is a thought and it's elaborated in our neo-cortex, which happens to be just a thin layer in our brain. The rest of it, the emotions go way past that layer, to the deepest and oldest of our brain structures, where any sense of rationality is lost. Down there, our brain doesn't know if we are in a videogame or not. So what do you want to feed your brain? Which happens to be you.
I think that there is credibility in the idea that mmorpg games indoctrinate and sustain the idea of the psychological archtypes behind aggression and warmongering.
Look how socially unacceptable it is to suggest a game without killing. Popular culture has been turned in such a way as to keep warmongering instincts 'near the top' as it were.
Those making fun of a game without killing can consider themselves prime examples of sociological conditioning brought to us after WWII.
I don't murder people! I hit them with my Sword of Teleportation. Yeah thats right! I hit 'em a couple of times and some energy builds up. There are some red pixels that fly around that tell you how much power the sword has. Finally when there's anough of those red pixels they teleport to the nearest shrine. It's really satisfying - Its like I'm a buss driver or an airline pilot. Other games have Beam of Rebirth attached to their spaceship. I point my beam on people and they are reborn in an egg. Just like mystical phoenix, free and healthy! I'm really helping these people!
Ive actually stopped playing MMOs due to the grind and until I find one that keeps me interested without having to mass murder hundreds of thousands of mobs and has a good story, I am not going to be giveing anyone my 15 beans a month anymore.
I bought Dragon Age. Good story lots of cinamatics, lots of background reading, an adventure creator, and still enough blood and fighting to keep my blood lust satisfied.
I might try EVE again, After reading some of the posts on it here I think its worth a second chance.
It really is a poke at the narrow scope of advancement in MMOs. I remember back in SWG when people used to ask why a Jedi had to slaughter 36,000 critters at random in the wild to fill out a template, when it was pretty un-Iedi-like to do so. There are more questions that can be asked across the genre..
Why does mass killing 'creeps' make me a better healer?
Why are there level requirements for advancement in crafting in some games?
Why do I have to master my classes' DPS mechanics to level up efficiently when I want to play a tank?
It really is a poke at the narrow scope of advancement in MMOs. I remember back in SWG when people used to ask why a Jedi had to slaughter 36,000 critters at random in the wild to fill out a template, when it was pretty un-Iedi-like to do so. There are more questions that can be asked across the genre.. Why does mass killing 'creeps' make me a better healer? Why are there level requirements for advancement in crafting in some games? Why do I have to master my classes' DPS mechanics to level up efficiently when I want to play a tank? etc..
I believe that was the point the OP was making. Since he didn't elaborate on it, everyone just kind of ran with the mass murderer thing.
In most MMOs, your only possible path of progression is that of a killer. You are told by those you answer to (the NPCs) all sorts of reasons to go kill animals and people, with blind acceptance that it is truth and complete disregard for the actual situation at hand. "The orcs to the south pose a threat. Bring back nine orc ears as proof that you aided in supressing their invasion!" There obviously is no invasion and the orcs usually are standing around minding their own business. Of course, when you enter their camp they attack you, but that's probably because every other member of your race that has headed there has done so only to slaughter them. Most of that can be explained away, and several here have created various sound personal explanations for how they aren't really killing things when NPCs send them to do so.
Crafting, cooking, tailoring, alchemy.... in many MMOs, it all hinges on how many things you killed. You actually have to work agaisnt the mechanics of the game in order to progress your character as anything other than "killer of things." One person here posted a perfect example of that when they stated that in order to level up their dedicated crafter they had to leech xp from groups, offer items or discounts in trade for the service.
Very few MMOs allow a player to take up a profession of lumberjack or cook or courier or merchant or diplomat. At some point they end up left behind their group or locked out of the content their group can do unless they go kill things or, as stated before, work around the game mechanics in order to advance their alternate profession.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Originally posted by ebonfire It really is a poke at the narrow scope of advancement in MMOs. I remember back in SWG when people used to ask why a Jedi had to slaughter 36,000 critters at random in the wild to fill out a template, when it was pretty un-Iedi-like to do so. There are more questions that can be asked across the genre.. Why does mass killing 'creeps' make me a better healer? Why are there level requirements for advancement in crafting in some games? Why do I have to master my classes' DPS mechanics to level up efficiently when I want to play a tank? etc..
Though on the flip side for SWG, every other skill relied on you actually gaining the appropriate XP for it by actually using that skill or a related skill that shared the same XP type.
I really did like the weapon and combat xp to spend in skill trees, but Jedi xp was kind of sick. I think you could get some xp for crafting or using force skill before publish 9, but it was limited. Pretty much you ended up killing stuff with any lightsaber equipped for generic Jedi xp, and then you would spend it in Lightsaber, Healing, Enhancement, Powers, or Defense.
The thing that concerns me about mass killing is simply how mind numbingly boring it is. You can get a good ui set-up, and then put your brain on auto mode. You are warned when your health or mana is low, when skills come off cooldown, some even tell you the skill order for best dps, and then mobs are nicely color coded with 'kill me' or 'don't bother'. There is no risk.. just the time sink that players consider a necessary evil.
Originally posted by ebonfire I really did like the weapon and combat xp to spend in skill trees, but Jedi xp was kind of sick. I think you could get some xp for crafting or using force skill before publish 9, but it was limited. Pretty much you ended up killing stuff with any lightsaber equipped for generic Jedi xp, and then you would spend it in Lightsaber, Healing, Enhancement, Powers, or Defense.
I think this was an artifact of Jedi being added as a playable class in the game as an afterthought. They were added late in the development cycle, and were originally never intended to be a playable class (with good reason).
The thing that concerns me about mass killing is simply how mind numbingly boring it is. You can get a good ui set-up, and then put your brain on auto mode. You are warned when your health or mana is low, when skills come off cooldown, some even tell you the skill order for best dps, and then mobs are nicely color coded with 'kill me' or 'don't bother'. There is no risk.. just the time sink that players consider a necessary evil.
The problem is that many MMOs use killing mobs as an end, rather than a means. Rather than focusing on larger mechanics, and using killing mobs as a means to help accomplish it, most goals involve straight killing mobs.
For example, wouldn't it be more interesting if rather than endlessly slaughtering mobs for loot, you would also have to protect a player made town from a raid from NPC mobs? It would certainly add a new twist to the equation, and I've yet to see any MMO tackle this idea.
Comments
Care to flesh out that question with some salient points or are you happy with sounding like a sanctimonious a-hole?
Next time offer an actual thought for discussion. Don't waste our time with logical fallacies like "Are you still beating your wife?"
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
“there is plenty of quests that want you to kill them for food or leather.”
Yes it is called hunting, you do it for your survival and that of the society that needs food and leather.
Sorry but I just saw this and the OP’s post as rather bleeding heart. Yes we do certain tasks too much in MMO’s for them to be realistic, but it’s a game, it is not going to be totally realistic. I don’t really think I am a knight because I spend all my time in plate armour, nor do I think I am a mass murderer because I kill lots of things.
I'm surprised by the offended. I thought it was fairly well known that we all play extremely sadistic, vampiric beings in MMOs, wherein gameplay revolves around slaughtering to increase your power, Elric of Melniboné-style. Nothing sanctimonious about pointing out objective fact.
'Mass murderer' is inaccurate when there is usually a convenient war (or twenty) on, but I'm pretty sure you all know what is meant by it. We certainly don't play soldiers. Sociopathic mercenaries, at best. Mercenaries with not only a job to kill, but a need to.
I agree mass murderer is not accurate, but we could say they turn you into a killing machine, which is pretty sad. I don't want to be a killing machine, specially if I play a knight or a paladin, the sword should be used seldomly.
Aion is shyly making steps toward this direction. I remember in a small camp site, there are two quest givers. One asks you to kill birds that are annoying them. The other one, tells you that killing the birds dosent' seem right and asks you to find a plant to make a sleeping potion to give to the birds.
I know killing in a video game doesn't make you killer. This is not the issue. The issue is, what do you enjoy being in a video game. I certainly don't enjoy being a killer.
I have my ethics when playing an MMO, I try not to fight any person or animal that doesn't attack me first. I know it might sound silly, but feels good.
I don't murder people!
I hit them with my Sword of Teleportation. Yeah thats right! I hit 'em a couple of times and some energy builds up. There are some red pixels that fly around that tell you how much power the sword has. Finally when there's anough of those red pixels they teleport to the nearest shrine. It's really satisfying - Its like I'm a buss driver or an airline pilot.
Other games have Beam of Rebirth attached to their spaceship. I point my beam on people and they are reborn in an egg. Just like mystical phoenix, free and healthy!
I'm really helping these people!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I thought about this a bit, and I realized that most characters don't murder things in MMO's.
The simple fact is that murder involves making something dead. Since virtually every mob and player in MMO's respawn, they don't stay dead, therefore, they are not murdered. Mugged and abused, maybe, but not murdered. Nor do they remember what happened to them.
Kill that innocent piggy in the Valley of Trials? Cry not, for it'll be back in 30 secs, and it will show no signs of physical or mental trauma. Thus, no actual real harm has come to said mob... I mean... piggy.
So, my fellow MMO playing friends, you may now "kill" away with a clear conscience.
Well, you don't *have* to play a mass murderer in EvE, but you generally do. If not, you'll need somebody you trust a whole lot to do your mass murdering for you while you mine/research/build.
Quality post.
I can accept we become an individual who resorts to fighting as a solution too quickly, but that is from our modern perspective. Most people in the world are not in a state of war that these games put us in, this is why it seems we are fighting too much.
Avoid games that the only way to get anything is to kill NPCs.
I have been playing an alt in DAoC who only do business, buying materials (looted armor mostly) from players, turn them to materials and craft. With a few maxed crafters, I can provide a full serviced shop. But I admit, I have one alt camped outside the frontier in our keep. I log him on when the frontier heats up.
I have pure crafting alts in WoW. Level 65 just for crafting. I never use him to kill anything, just tag along and let people feed him xp. These people will enjoy my free crafting services. I know I get level 65 with others helping me kill. Am I still a mass murderer?
Didn't know killing made up creatures on a computer in a fantasy world is mass murder. Think someone escaped the hippy commune after one too many special cookies.
Quality post.
I can accept we become an individual who resorts to fighting as a solution too quickly, but that is from our modern perspective. Most people in the world are not in a state of war that these games put us in, this is why it seems we are fighting too much.
Loved that post too. And it's a valid point. But, we have to take into account our brain and how it deals with basic emotions. The concept of "this is a videogame, pixels that will spawn, so no harm done" this is a thought and it's elaborated in our neo-cortex, which happens to be just a thin layer in our brain. The rest of it, the emotions go way past that layer, to the deepest and oldest of our brain structures, where any sense of rationality is lost. Down there, our brain doesn't know if we are in a videogame or not. So what do you want to feed your brain? Which happens to be you.
UO ...if you go the way of a peacuful crafter - so hands off the trapped boxes!
Hello Kitty Online?
Currently playing: N/A
Retired from: GW, WAR, Aion, LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR, Vinductus
I think that there is credibility in the idea that mmorpg games indoctrinate and sustain the idea of the psychological archtypes behind aggression and warmongering.
Look how socially unacceptable it is to suggest a game without killing. Popular culture has been turned in such a way as to keep warmongering instincts 'near the top' as it were.
Those making fun of a game without killing can consider themselves prime examples of sociological conditioning brought to us after WWII.
Now where did I put my e-gun?
We're, like, saints
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I think I got this one ;D
CitiesXL if it can be called MMORPG... Still no mobs to kill there I think...
Ive actually stopped playing MMOs due to the grind and until I find one that keeps me interested without having to mass murder hundreds of thousands of mobs and has a good story, I am not going to be giveing anyone my 15 beans a month anymore.
I bought Dragon Age. Good story lots of cinamatics, lots of background reading, an adventure creator, and still enough blood and fighting to keep my blood lust satisfied.
I might try EVE again, After reading some of the posts on it here I think its worth a second chance.
Why else would you wanna play a MMO? Role playing mass murderers ftw
It really is a poke at the narrow scope of advancement in MMOs. I remember back in SWG when people used to ask why a Jedi had to slaughter 36,000 critters at random in the wild to fill out a template, when it was pretty un-Iedi-like to do so. There are more questions that can be asked across the genre..
Why does mass killing 'creeps' make me a better healer?
Why are there level requirements for advancement in crafting in some games?
Why do I have to master my classes' DPS mechanics to level up efficiently when I want to play a tank?
etc..
I believe that was the point the OP was making. Since he didn't elaborate on it, everyone just kind of ran with the mass murderer thing.
In most MMOs, your only possible path of progression is that of a killer. You are told by those you answer to (the NPCs) all sorts of reasons to go kill animals and people, with blind acceptance that it is truth and complete disregard for the actual situation at hand. "The orcs to the south pose a threat. Bring back nine orc ears as proof that you aided in supressing their invasion!" There obviously is no invasion and the orcs usually are standing around minding their own business. Of course, when you enter their camp they attack you, but that's probably because every other member of your race that has headed there has done so only to slaughter them. Most of that can be explained away, and several here have created various sound personal explanations for how they aren't really killing things when NPCs send them to do so.
Crafting, cooking, tailoring, alchemy.... in many MMOs, it all hinges on how many things you killed. You actually have to work agaisnt the mechanics of the game in order to progress your character as anything other than "killer of things." One person here posted a perfect example of that when they stated that in order to level up their dedicated crafter they had to leech xp from groups, offer items or discounts in trade for the service.
Very few MMOs allow a player to take up a profession of lumberjack or cook or courier or merchant or diplomat. At some point they end up left behind their group or locked out of the content their group can do unless they go kill things or, as stated before, work around the game mechanics in order to advance their alternate profession.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Though on the flip side for SWG, every other skill relied on you actually gaining the appropriate XP for it by actually using that skill or a related skill that shared the same XP type.
How I miss the last true decent sandbox MMO...
I really did like the weapon and combat xp to spend in skill trees, but Jedi xp was kind of sick. I think you could get some xp for crafting or using force skill before publish 9, but it was limited. Pretty much you ended up killing stuff with any lightsaber equipped for generic Jedi xp, and then you would spend it in Lightsaber, Healing, Enhancement, Powers, or Defense.
The thing that concerns me about mass killing is simply how mind numbingly boring it is. You can get a good ui set-up, and then put your brain on auto mode. You are warned when your health or mana is low, when skills come off cooldown, some even tell you the skill order for best dps, and then mobs are nicely color coded with 'kill me' or 'don't bother'. There is no risk.. just the time sink that players consider a necessary evil.
I think this was an artifact of Jedi being added as a playable class in the game as an afterthought. They were added late in the development cycle, and were originally never intended to be a playable class (with good reason).
The problem is that many MMOs use killing mobs as an end, rather than a means. Rather than focusing on larger mechanics, and using killing mobs as a means to help accomplish it, most goals involve straight killing mobs.
For example, wouldn't it be more interesting if rather than endlessly slaughtering mobs for loot, you would also have to protect a player made town from a raid from NPC mobs? It would certainly add a new twist to the equation, and I've yet to see any MMO tackle this idea.