Attention, I am going to make a long post and want it to get read ;p.
Some people say tutorials are boring, unnecessary or just makes the world feel to fake and easy.
Some other people say they need to know how to play to enjoy the game at the very least.
Here is the problems I have faced with tutorials:
They are too long.
They explain things you are not even close to doing, like I don't know, how to create a guild, how to craft, how to do a triple back slash jump in 35.7 nanoseconds at the beginning on the game...
They are BORING
I wanna go and kill something but this stupid screen won't go away.
Solution?
Make a tutorial with the following characteristics:
Don't shove it up the player's face at the beginning, just give them the basic commands like...how to move, talk and attack.
Entertaining...they are soooo boring, maybe make a hilarious character tell you how to fight, like a fairy that keeps crashing into things.
Make them come to the tutorial, tutorials are made so we can watch them, they are completely optional, but they should be available like, if I want to craft, I just consult a letter I was given when I came and see crafting section where it says where I should meet the guy to learn how crafting works.
Make sure to tell the player tutorials actually exist in the universe and how to locate them.
Make them short and simple and give the player the option to learn more IF THEY WANT TO.
Tutorials should take around a few seconds and then leave it to the player if he wants to learn more if he is actually interested.
Tutorials are made to adapt the player to the gaming world, that's it, teach them how to walk and if they want to learn how to fly, let them knock themselves out.
I am very critical of new games, most games post WoW except Vanguard, that have the theory of starting all new players in a obvious nooby zone and holding their hands while slowly guiding them through a narrow path that leads away from the starting location. I enjoyed the old games like DAoC that just threw you in the middle of a mass of land. There are really no zone walls except for the one outlining the entire continent, allowing players to explore and really get immersed in what feels like a real world. Mobs do not get higher level the farther you move from where you started. I'm not looking to make anyone mad, if you enjoy a small learning curve, then wow is a perfect game for you. I am just upset that the only MMO after seeing WoW's success that has truly let the players explore and not set physical restrictions on where a player can go has been Vanguard. I know i only speak for a small percentage of the MMO population, but I want it the old way again.
Lol again someone who know a game he played and make a statement build on that, thus failing with this topic.
How can you claim that only game is vanguard have you played Darkfall?
Well i can assure you that Darkfall is even way more free to explore whole world and with no holding hand then vanguard and im sure there are prolly some more mmo's that do the same but i dont make such statements and claim this or that becouse i have not played all mmo's.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I am very critical of new games, most games post WoW except Vanguard, that have the theory of starting all new players in a obvious nooby zone and holding their hands while slowly guiding them through a narrow path that leads away from the starting location. I enjoyed the old games like DAoC that just threw you in the middle of a mass of land. There are really no zone walls except for the one outlining the entire continent, allowing players to explore and really get immersed in what feels like a real world. Mobs do not get higher level the farther you move from where you started. I'm not looking to make anyone mad, if you enjoy a small learning curve, then wow is a perfect game for you. I am just upset that the only MMO after seeing WoW's success that has truly let the players explore and not set physical restrictions on where a player can go has been Vanguard. I know i only speak for a small percentage of the MMO population, but I want it the old way again.
Lol again someone who know a game he played and make a statement build on that, thus failing with this topic.
How can you claim that only game is vanguard have you played Darkfall?
Well i can assure you that Darkfall is even way more free to explore whole world and with no holding hand then vanguard and im sure there are prolly some more mmo's that do the same but i dont make such statements and claim this or that becouse i have not played all mmo's.
sorry, wasnt sure if you saw that part. I just put Vanguard in there because im currently angry how much potential that game has but no one plays it because of the horrible launch.
I dont play Darkfall cus iv heard its full of exploiters and macroers.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Attention, I am going to make a long post and want it to get read ;p. Some people say tutorials are boring, unnecessary or just makes the world feel to fake and easy. Some other people say they need to know how to play to enjoy the game at the very least.
Here is the problems I have faced with tutorials:
They are too long. They explain things you are not even close to doing, like I don't know, how to create a guild, how to craft, how to do a triple back slash jump in 35.7 nanoseconds at the beginning on the game... They are BORING I wanna go and kill something but this stupid screen won't go away.
Solution? Make a tutorial with the following characteristics:
Don't shove it up the player's face at the beginning, just give them the basic commands like...how to move, talk and attack. Entertaining...they are soooo boring, maybe make a hilarious character tell you how to fight, like a fairy that keeps crashing into things. Make them come to the tutorial, tutorials are made so we can watch them, they are completely optional, but they should be available like, if I want to craft, I just consult a letter I was given when I came and see crafting section where it says where I should meet the guy to learn how crafting works. Make sure to tell the player tutorials actually exist in the universe and how to locate them. Make them short and simple and give the player the option to learn more IF THEY WANT TO.
Tutorials should take around a few seconds and then leave it to the player if he wants to learn more if he is actually interested. Tutorials are made to adapt the player to the gaming world, that's it, teach them how to walk and if they want to learn how to fly, let them knock themselves out.
Believe me millions wanne be hold hand and been told what to do, as if they where 8 years olds this is how it have developed over the years thats why so many themepark games and it getting worse im affraid soon consoles also get there mmo's well then we sink so low that prolly all real pc gamers stop playing new games and stick to older ones.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Originally posted by tiki Originally posted by Evasia Originally posted by tiki I am very critical of new games, most games post WoW except Vanguard, that have the theory of starting all new players in a obvious nooby zone and holding their hands while slowly guiding them through a narrow path that leads away from the starting location. I enjoyed the old games like DAoC that just threw you in the middle of a mass of land. There are really no zone walls except for the one outlining the entire continent, allowing players to explore and really get immersed in what feels like a real world. Mobs do not get higher level the farther you move from where you started. I'm not looking to make anyone mad, if you enjoy a small learning curve, then wow is a perfect game for you. I am just upset that the only MMO after seeing WoW's success that has truly let the players explore and not set physical restrictions on where a player can go has been Vanguard. I know i only speak for a small percentage of the MMO population, but I want it the old way again.
Lol again someone who know a game he played and make a statement build on that, thus failing with this topic. How can you claim that only game is vanguard have you played Darkfall? Well i can assure you that Darkfall is even way more free to explore whole world and with no holding hand then vanguard and im sure there are prolly some more mmo's that do the same but i dont make such statements and claim this or that becouse i have not played all mmo's.
sorry, wasnt sure if you saw that part. I just put Vanguard in there because im currently angry how much potential that game has but no one plays it because of the horrible launch. I dont play Darkfall cus iv heard its full of exploiters and macroers. You also said
I am just upset that the only MMO after seeing WoW's success that has truly let the players explore and not set physical restrictions on where a player can go has been Vanguard.
which is just wrong statement. Vanguard is themepark mmo when comparing to games I mentioned in one of my posts here.
Attention, I am going to make a long post and want it to get read ;p. Some people say tutorials are boring, unnecessary or just makes the world feel to fake and easy. Some other people say they need to know how to play to enjoy the game at the very least.
Here is the problems I have faced with tutorials:
They are too long. They explain things you are not even close to doing, like I don't know, how to create a guild, how to craft, how to do a triple back slash jump in 35.7 nanoseconds at the beginning on the game... They are BORING I wanna go and kill something but this stupid screen won't go away.
Solution? Make a tutorial with the following characteristics:
Don't shove it up the player's face at the beginning, just give them the basic commands like...how to move, talk and attack. Entertaining...they are soooo boring, maybe make a hilarious character tell you how to fight, like a fairy that keeps crashing into things. Make them come to the tutorial, tutorials are made so we can watch them, they are completely optional, but they should be available like, if I want to craft, I just consult a letter I was given when I came and see crafting section where it says where I should meet the guy to learn how crafting works. Make sure to tell the player tutorials actually exist in the universe and how to locate them. Make them short and simple and give the player the option to learn more IF THEY WANT TO.
Tutorials should take around a few seconds and then leave it to the player if he wants to learn more if he is actually interested. Tutorials are made to adapt the player to the gaming world, that's it, teach them how to walk and if they want to learn how to fly, let them knock themselves out.
Believe me millions wanne be hold hand and been told what to do, as if they where 8 years olds this is how it have developed over the years thats why so many themepark games and it getting worse im affraid soon consoles also get there mmo's well then we sink so low that prolly all real pc gamers stop playing new games and stick to older ones.
I don't mind tutorials personally, just give the gamer the option to hit ESC (or some predetermined key) to bypass (cancel) the tutorial. Or give the user a pop-up bubble that asks the user "Tutorial? Yes / No(skip)".
As along as theres a choice, it can be bypassed instantly, I don't mind them.
I am very critical of new games, most games post WoW except Vanguard, that have the theory of starting all new players in a obvious nooby zone and holding their hands while slowly guiding them through a narrow path that leads away from the starting location. I enjoyed the old games like DAoC that just threw you in the middle of a mass of land. There are really no zone walls except for the one outlining the entire continent, allowing players to explore and really get immersed in what feels like a real world. Mobs do not get higher level the farther you move from where you started. I'm not looking to make anyone mad, if you enjoy a small learning curve, then wow is a perfect game for you. I am just upset that the only MMO after seeing WoW's success that has truly let the players explore and not set physical restrictions on where a player can go has been Vanguard. I know i only speak for a small percentage of the MMO population, but I want it the old way again.
Someone offers some hints and directions in the game and you must follow it?
Is there any mechanism in the game that stops you from bravely ignoring the game hints and march out blindly, bravely, recklessly, in full determination, to die or glory?
No. You can surely do it.
But you do not want to, you just come to rant, because you decide not to go out and explore. Instead you decided to explore here and create a thread to moan.
"Oh mom, there is a prefect in the school helping us find our way to the toilet. I can no longer explore the school any more ..."
One of the most fun times in wow was when we were around 20 we took the boat to kalimdor and dodged mobs to the west coast then swam the coastline to up to desolace continueing to dodge mobs. Sure you can do whatever and it's fun as long as the game is new and you're exploring it for the first time but then eventually you have to play ball to still find a reason to play. I think a different kind of mmo is the answer, maybe something that works similar to the gothic games and aren't so obvious with numbers and boundaries and linearness.
sorry, wasnt sure if you saw that part. I just put Vanguard in there because im currently angry how much potential that game has but no one plays it because of the horrible launch. I dont play Darkfall cus iv heard its full of exploiters and macroers.
So you want a non-causal game with millions of players?
That's just not going to happen. At least not anytime soon. There are lots of smaller, more serious/hardcore/whateveryouwantotcallit MMOs out there, doing quite well when judged on their own merits and not against the behemoth.
Just try them until you find one you like. Forums are the battlegrounds of fanboys and haters who tend to blow anything and everything way of proportion, especially when they can con someone into paying attention to them. So take them with a grain of salt. Try the games out, make your own decision.
I remember when I first started playing daoc, i was level 8 or so killing water beatles outside of Ardee and i saw a ghost like looking mob across the river. I said man those mobs are so close to these low level mobs I bet they are only a little bit higher level. Went over and immediately got 1 shot, turns out they were level 35 mobs. The pure randomness of the world made it feel so real.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
Hey even EQ had a tutorial zone to teach you the ropes. I skipped it because I found it boring. This is how I learned.
I created a character and ran. Kept running until I died. In part to explore and see the world and to learn the areas. At the time there wasn't as much walkthroughs and online maps. I did this for probably a week until I found the race/class combination I liked and then stuck to that one.
The one thing I do like is when a game rewards you for being a veteran player and I think companies should do more to help people who have been there from the start. For example, in DDO if you have veteran status you can start a character at level 4 and they give them a full suit of gear that isn't too shabby either. If you haven't played DDO level 4 might not seem much but the max level is only 20 and getting to 4th can take awhile if you're only casual.
I remember when I first started playing daoc, i was level 8 or so killing water beatles outside of Ardee and i saw a ghost like looking mob across the river. I said man those mobs are so close to these low level mobs I bet they are only a little bit higher level. Went over and immediately got 1 shot, turns out they were level 35 mobs. The pure randomness of the world made it feel so real.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
Yeah, the exact same thing happened to me in WoW. The starting level area of Elwynn Forest is seperated from the level 20+ parts of Duskwood by only a river and the level 12 areas of Loch Modan are only a short mountain pass from Badlands which is 30+. Level 20 Ashenvale lets you walk into level 50 Felwood.
I remember when I first started playing daoc, i was level 8 or so killing water beatles outside of Ardee and i saw a ghost like looking mob across the river. I said man those mobs are so close to these low level mobs I bet they are only a little bit higher level. Went over and immediately got 1 shot, turns out they were level 35 mobs. The pure randomness of the world made it feel so real.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
Here's an example in WOW...in the Barrens, I'm killing Pigs, lvl 10 or 12 or something. I see a band of Elves running down the road...I think Oh CRAP Alliance!!!! Nope, they were elite NPCs running through the barrens. 1 shotted, dead. Not so linear. How about in Ungoro Crater..I'm killing Raptors when the ground starts shaking, I hear a roar and behind me is a fricken T-rex. I get stomped in 2 hits. Not so linear. I can name many more examples but I'd be called a newb liar I guess, because WOW is a linear theme park with no randomness at all=)
Besides, on a PvP server there is nothing predictable about PvE when at any moment you're in a fight with another player. Good times for all I say.
I don't mind handholding in the form of tutorials or hints, as long as I can skip or turn them off, which most MMOs tend to let you do. So I don't quite see the problem. I enjoy doing a tutorial for a new game because its a good measuring stick as to how well the developer can develop. If they can't make a decent tutorial, things aren't looking good for the rest of the game. Its like the UI. If it sucks, the game is going to suck too. Great games are intutive. You don't really need much hand holding to "get it". Developers that don't even bother trying to explain things, letting you figure it all out, are hiding something, usually BAD, overly confusing design.
When you stop putting your hand out. You do not have to use any of the ingame tools.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
I remember when I first started playing daoc, i was level 8 or so killing water beatles outside of Ardee and i saw a ghost like looking mob across the river. I said man those mobs are so close to these low level mobs I bet they are only a little bit higher level. Went over and immediately got 1 shot, turns out they were level 35 mobs. The pure randomness of the world made it feel so real.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
I played on the Hibernian side from launch, and there was a road that was traveled up and down to get to the areas of which you needed to level just a few steps off that road. How is a practically straight line that you walked/rode a horse on up and down... not "linear"?
You said "The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month." Oldschool sandboxes had just what you were bitching about. Want a FBSS in EQ? You know the same mob in the same area is the only mob in existence that has the potential of dropping one. That's pretty goddamned static. Need to level from 38-39 in DAoC? You need to go camp those "high level mobs" that are lvl 38-40 across the lake where you went as a noob and got wiped two months ago. Guess what? They're still there. That. Is. Static. It's predictable. It's the same, damned thing. Sorry bud.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
I love how so many people don't get the idea that a game can still be deep and engaging while having an in-depth tutorial which explains the game to new players.
The level 'of hand holding' is often really subjective and depends on how experieced with MMORPGs a player is. Personally, I found the level of 'hand holding' in WoW to be minimal since it made obvious sense where I could and should go. Now, if you consider the bread-crumbs quests to be hand holding then you are just grasping at straws. I will however, acknowledge that to someone with little MMORPG experience, things in WoW might seem to 'straitjacket' you into a single path (and they tend to actually do that at endgame).
Well, a lot of us old-timers grew up on grinding games like EQ. No tutorial and you began where you needed to be.
When you moved prematurely to a new zone and got smoked in one shot, that was all the tutorial that you needed to tell you that you weren't ready to be there yet.
Pretty much the same thing happens in WoW.
Not really. In WoW you go from quest hub to quest hub, where the NPCs tell you to go, because Blizzard thinks (and rightly so) that WoW players are too dumb to figure out what to do without someone/something constantly telling them what to do.
It's funny, imagine WoW with no quests. Their players would just collect herbs all day and not know how to level up. Everyone in WoW would be stuck at level 1 because they are not smart enough to figure out, there is an instance there, or, there is a camp of NPCs there.
WoW is pure hand holding. There is just no freedom in WoW. You're forced into doing retarded and meaningless quests from level 1-80, unless you want to take twice as long to level up. Anyway, I guess that is needed because WoW players are so dumb. Imagine a WOW player going into a game like EQ. They are so dumb they wouldn't even be able to navigate their way out of a town like Cabilis or Freeport. They'd probably need an NPC to give them a quest to leave the town, with an arrow on their minimap, in order to get them to leave.
God forbid a WoW player used their brain in a real MMORPG. And their endgame is equally pathetic and trivial as the whole leveling up thing. Linear progression of endgame content, not to mention dumbed down & no penalties for losing. It's funny that not all guilds in WoW are at endgame though, considering the game is so hand-holding and forgiving. If you wipe in an instance, you can just go back and have infinite retries.
Here is the kind of raids I want to see in a future MMORPG:
and then when you wipe you get a 30 minute corpse run if you didn't camp any rezzers.
Sick of these retarded MMORPGs giving infinite retries for equally retarded players who brute force their way through content, because they can't manage to stop and think for a second how to defeat a certain raid encounter.
The level 'of hand holding' is often really subjective and depends on how experieced with MMORPGs a player is. Personally, I found the level of 'hand holding' in WoW to be minimal since it made obvious sense where I could and should go. Now, if you consider the bread-crumbs quests to be hand holding then you are just grasping at straws. I will however, acknowledge that to someone with little MMORPG experience, things in WoW might seem to 'straitjacket' you into a single path (and they tend to actually do that at endgame).
Well, a lot of us old-timers grew up on grinding games like EQ. No tutorial and you began where you needed to be.
When you moved prematurely to a new zone and got smoked in one shot, that was all the tutorial that you needed to tell you that you weren't ready to be there yet.
Pretty much the same thing happens in WoW.
Not really. In WoW you go from quest hub to quest hub, where the NPCs tell you to go, because Blizzard thinks (and rightly so) that WoW players are too dumb to figure out what to do without someone/something constantly telling them what to do.
It's funny, imagine WoW with no quests. Their players would just collect herbs all day and not know how to level up. Everyone in WoW would be stuck at level 1 because they are not smart enough to figure out, there is an instance there, or, there is a camp of NPCs there.
WoW is pure hand holding. There is just no freedom in WoW. You're forced into doing retarded and meaningless quests from level 1-80, unless you want to take twice as long to level up. Anyway, I guess that is needed because WoW players are so dumb. Imagine a WOW player going into a game like EQ. They are so dumb they wouldn't even be able to navigate their way out of a town like Cabilis or Freeport. They'd probably need an NPC to give them a quest to leave the town, with an arrow on their minimap, in order to get them to leave.
God forbid a WoW player used their brain in a real MMORPG. And their endgame is equally pathetic and trivial as the whole leveling up thing. Linear progression of endgame content, not to mention dumbed down & no penalties for losing. It's funny that not all guilds in WoW are at endgame though, considering the game is so hand-holding and forgiving. If you wipe in an instance, you can just go back and have infinite retries.
Here is the kind of raids I want to see in a future MMORPG:
and then when you wipe you get a 30 minute corpse run if you didn't camp any rezzers.
Sick of these retarded MMORPGs giving infinite retries for equally retarded players who brute force their way through content, because they can't manage to stop and think for a second how to defeat a certain raid encounter.
probably one reason game like everquest are still fairly popular
no handholding is nice,i would love it if pvp server were without frill like right now
no add-on,no coordinate not quest map helper etc etc etc
just the game,if you want hand holding you can always go on regular server or rp server
the problem start when player say do it your self
lol .it has to be every player.
i dont seat it too much because blizzard is already looking in to this and so far they dont like what they have found out
lot of player are truelly op and lot of the stuff those player use isnt avail .its their own aad-on
oh they use the tool given by blizzard but since those guys are programmer they can make it do way more then the average joe
the way it look ,blizzard will probably stop this add-on and all the other stuff and just supply an standard game
this would be great oh lot of legal cheater whine and say learn to play noob but the fact is not many player have 30 hour a week
left to program a freaking game.and most want a lvl playing field not biased like its been since start of bc
lets face it right now its so biased toward the programmer you can bet on x guy and you will always win because
guys like me dont have time to learn to program and dont want to .they just want to play a game that is fair
wich right now im sorry to say wow hasnt been fair.oh we all got the tool but some like me (majority dont want to
loose time learning about fucking hidden mecanic lieke coefficient of damage .add-on etc etc etc
im sorry if i wanted a second job i would go flip burger at mcdonald
So let me get this straight, most of you are complaining about tutorials? Really? Every single game, whether it was an mmo, an rts, an fps, an rpg, or even a flight sim, that I have played has had a turorial and every single one of those had the option of turning the tutorials off. I mean of all the things to complain about.
Now some of you are talking about linear worlds, that is another story in itself and not really related to "hand holding".
The level 'of hand holding' is often really subjective and depends on how experieced with MMORPGs a player is. Personally, I found the level of 'hand holding' in WoW to be minimal since it made obvious sense where I could and should go. Now, if you consider the bread-crumbs quests to be hand holding then you are just grasping at straws. I will however, acknowledge that to someone with little MMORPG experience, things in WoW might seem to 'straitjacket' you into a single path (and they tend to actually do that at endgame).
Well, a lot of us old-timers grew up on grinding games like EQ. No tutorial and you began where you needed to be.
When you moved prematurely to a new zone and got smoked in one shot, that was all the tutorial that you needed to tell you that you weren't ready to be there yet.
Pretty much the same thing happens in WoW.
Not really. In WoW you go from quest hub to quest hub, where the NPCs tell you to go, because Blizzard thinks (and rightly so) that WoW players are too dumb to figure out what to do without someone/something constantly telling them what to do.
It's funny, imagine WoW with no quests. Their players would just collect herbs all day and not know how to level up. Everyone in WoW would be stuck at level 1 because they are not smart enough to figure out, there is an instance there, or, there is a camp of NPCs there.
WoW is pure hand holding. There is just no freedom in WoW. You're forced into doing retarded and meaningless quests from level 1-80, unless you want to take twice as long to level up. Anyway, I guess that is needed because WoW players are so dumb. Imagine a WOW player going into a game like EQ. They are so dumb they wouldn't even be able to navigate their way out of a town like Cabilis or Freeport. They'd probably need an NPC to give them a quest to leave the town, with an arrow on their minimap, in order to get them to leave.
God forbid a WoW player used their brain in a real MMORPG. And their endgame is equally pathetic and trivial as the whole leveling up thing. Linear progression of endgame content, not to mention dumbed down & no penalties for losing. It's funny that not all guilds in WoW are at endgame though, considering the game is so hand-holding and forgiving. If you wipe in an instance, you can just go back and have infinite retries.
Here is the kind of raids I want to see in a future MMORPG:
and then when you wipe you get a 30 minute corpse run if you didn't camp any rezzers.
Sick of these retarded MMORPGs giving infinite retries for equally retarded players who brute force their way through content, because they can't manage to stop and think for a second how to defeat a certain raid encounter.
We know you are too dumb to understand that it is not necessary to call ppl dumb just b/c they play a damn game differently.
If games are all you have in your life to assess wisdom, I understand why you have to keep calling people dumb, I guess you keep hearing the word wherever you go. A person like you who judge people by the way they spend their leisure times hardly have any intelligence left in his skull.
Keep murmuring the words dumb, that is yourself in summary.
sorry but tutorials are needed. The elitism in this thread is amazing. The only way the genre shifts from casual gamers back to hardcore is for the hardcore gamer base to grow. That happens when someone new plays a game which requires a tutorial. Im glad some of you dont need tutorials because you played every MMO that came out but not everyone has.
You dont need handhelding when you learn how to walk.
in mmo terms
change gray items to purples
in gaming terms
hi hi sandbox bye bye tivoli
but
they are building tivolis inside sandboxes now,even older sandboxes "all hail game director ,lets dance around this table and all yell we have tivol nowi,we made it!
after a month question marker spawns over their heads "?"
what happened mr.game director?why theres no people rushing into our tivoli?and all original inhabitants are packing their stuff too and leaving? -they ask
What isn't mentionned is that the hardcore players also want a top of the line, ultra modern, bug free, well supported MMO which will cost 100 million dollars or more to develop and will need several hundred thousand players paying monthly fees for several years to break even.
I am very critical of new games, most games post WoW except Vanguard, that have the theory of starting all new players in a obvious nooby zone and holding their hands while slowly guiding them through a narrow path that leads away from the starting location. I enjoyed the old games like DAoC that just threw you in the middle of a mass of land. There are really no zone walls except for the one outlining the entire continent, allowing players to explore and really get immersed in what feels like a real world. Mobs do not get higher level the farther you move from where you started. I'm not looking to make anyone mad, if you enjoy a small learning curve, then wow is a perfect game for you. I am just upset that the only MMO after seeing WoW's success that has truly let the players explore and not set physical restrictions on where a player can go has been Vanguard. I know i only speak for a small percentage of the MMO population, but I want it the old way again.
Someone offers some hints and directions in the game and you must follow it?
Is there any mechanism in the game that stops you from bravely ignoring the game hints and march out blindly, bravely, recklessly, in full determination, to die or glory?
No. You can surely do it.
But you do not want to, you just come to rant, because you decide not to go out and explore. Instead you decided to explore here and create a thread to moan.
"Oh mom, there is a prefect in the school helping us find our way to the toilet. I can no longer explore the school any more ..."
Man, you are so off here. Most recent mmos have levels right? Just like schools have classes that stretches upwards. And can I tell you, levels are just a fucking long tutorial!
Do you think I can just create a character in wow and travel to any zone I want? Sure I can but the game is not designed that way, I could explore and enjoy the eye candy thats presented to me, but not much more. The fact is that games with levels are designed to be a long pathed tutorial. You move from one zone to the other like climbing a ladder, and trying yourself at a zone (ladder step) thats later in the tutorial you are practically stuck.
What you are saying is like "Buhu mom there are so many classes I have to take to get my degree. I can no longer just go out and work as a lawyer or what not the age of 6." Because that's how the game(s) (career) are/is designed.
Sure, at the age of six you can manage perfectly in the world, but I fucking doubt you would even get a job. In fact I think theres law against people that young working actually.
In a game like Darkfall or Eve everything is presented to you right off the bat, the world is seeming less and it doesn't matter how old your character or what skill he needs to do x or y.
Customer service is a company's largest expense after launch. Blame customer service. In original WoW, quest items that you had to search for didn't have sparklies or big arrows pointing at them. Now they do. Why? To cut down on customer service tickets. All games are following this trend from what I've seen.
Wait... so you're saying that people were sending in complaints because they were unable to find quest items, and that's why they added sparklies to them?
As in, "I couldn't find this quest item and it can't be that I'm not looking hard enough, or perhaps not following the quest dialog that tells me where to look (reading is for n00bs lol)... It must be something wrong with the game, so fix it. I don't care that others are finding the items just fine. I can't, so it's a problem".
Seriously?
If that's so, then people are even more lazy and spoiled than I thought.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Attention, I am going to make a long post and want it to get read ;p.
Some people say tutorials are boring, unnecessary or just makes the world feel to fake and easy.
Some other people say they need to know how to play to enjoy the game at the very least.
Here is the problems I have faced with tutorials:
Solution?
Make a tutorial with the following characteristics:
Tutorials should take around a few seconds and then leave it to the player if he wants to learn more if he is actually interested.
Tutorials are made to adapt the player to the gaming world, that's it, teach them how to walk and if they want to learn how to fly, let them knock themselves out.
Lol again someone who know a game he played and make a statement build on that, thus failing with this topic.
How can you claim that only game is vanguard have you played Darkfall?
Well i can assure you that Darkfall is even way more free to explore whole world and with no holding hand then vanguard and im sure there are prolly some more mmo's that do the same but i dont make such statements and claim this or that becouse i have not played all mmo's.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Lol again someone who know a game he played and make a statement build on that, thus failing with this topic.
How can you claim that only game is vanguard have you played Darkfall?
Well i can assure you that Darkfall is even way more free to explore whole world and with no holding hand then vanguard and im sure there are prolly some more mmo's that do the same but i dont make such statements and claim this or that becouse i have not played all mmo's.
sorry, wasnt sure if you saw that part. I just put Vanguard in there because im currently angry how much potential that game has but no one plays it because of the horrible launch.
I dont play Darkfall cus iv heard its full of exploiters and macroers.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
Believe me millions wanne be hold hand and been told what to do, as if they where 8 years olds this is how it have developed over the years thats why so many themepark games and it getting worse im affraid soon consoles also get there mmo's well then we sink so low that prolly all real pc gamers stop playing new games and stick to older ones.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Lol again someone who know a game he played and make a statement build on that, thus failing with this topic.
How can you claim that only game is vanguard have you played Darkfall?
Well i can assure you that Darkfall is even way more free to explore whole world and with no holding hand then vanguard and im sure there are prolly some more mmo's that do the same but i dont make such statements and claim this or that becouse i have not played all mmo's.
sorry, wasnt sure if you saw that part. I just put Vanguard in there because im currently angry how much potential that game has but no one plays it because of the horrible launch.
I dont play Darkfall cus iv heard its full of exploiters and macroers.
You also said which is just wrong statement. Vanguard is themepark mmo when comparing to games I mentioned in one of my posts here.
Believe me millions wanne be hold hand and been told what to do, as if they where 8 years olds this is how it have developed over the years thats why so many themepark games and it getting worse im affraid soon consoles also get there mmo's well then we sink so low that prolly all real pc gamers stop playing new games and stick to older ones.
I don't mind tutorials personally, just give the gamer the option to hit ESC (or some predetermined key) to bypass (cancel) the tutorial. Or give the user a pop-up bubble that asks the user "Tutorial? Yes / No(skip)".
As along as theres a choice, it can be bypassed instantly, I don't mind them.
Someone offers some hints and directions in the game and you must follow it?
Is there any mechanism in the game that stops you from bravely ignoring the game hints and march out blindly, bravely, recklessly, in full determination, to die or glory?
No. You can surely do it.
But you do not want to, you just come to rant, because you decide not to go out and explore. Instead you decided to explore here and create a thread to moan.
"Oh mom, there is a prefect in the school helping us find our way to the toilet. I can no longer explore the school any more ..."
One of the most fun times in wow was when we were around 20 we took the boat to kalimdor and dodged mobs to the west coast then swam the coastline to up to desolace continueing to dodge mobs. Sure you can do whatever and it's fun as long as the game is new and you're exploring it for the first time but then eventually you have to play ball to still find a reason to play. I think a different kind of mmo is the answer, maybe something that works similar to the gothic games and aren't so obvious with numbers and boundaries and linearness.
So you want a non-causal game with millions of players?
That's just not going to happen. At least not anytime soon. There are lots of smaller, more serious/hardcore/whateveryouwantotcallit MMOs out there, doing quite well when judged on their own merits and not against the behemoth.
Just try them until you find one you like. Forums are the battlegrounds of fanboys and haters who tend to blow anything and everything way of proportion, especially when they can con someone into paying attention to them. So take them with a grain of salt. Try the games out, make your own decision.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
Hey even EQ had a tutorial zone to teach you the ropes. I skipped it because I found it boring. This is how I learned.
I created a character and ran. Kept running until I died. In part to explore and see the world and to learn the areas. At the time there wasn't as much walkthroughs and online maps. I did this for probably a week until I found the race/class combination I liked and then stuck to that one.
The one thing I do like is when a game rewards you for being a veteran player and I think companies should do more to help people who have been there from the start. For example, in DDO if you have veteran status you can start a character at level 4 and they give them a full suit of gear that isn't too shabby either. If you haven't played DDO level 4 might not seem much but the max level is only 20 and getting to 4th can take awhile if you're only casual.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
Yeah, the exact same thing happened to me in WoW. The starting level area of Elwynn Forest is seperated from the level 20+ parts of Duskwood by only a river and the level 12 areas of Loch Modan are only a short mountain pass from Badlands which is 30+. Level 20 Ashenvale lets you walk into level 50 Felwood.
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
Here's an example in WOW...in the Barrens, I'm killing Pigs, lvl 10 or 12 or something. I see a band of Elves running down the road...I think Oh CRAP Alliance!!!! Nope, they were elite NPCs running through the barrens. 1 shotted, dead. Not so linear. How about in Ungoro Crater..I'm killing Raptors when the ground starts shaking, I hear a roar and behind me is a fricken T-rex. I get stomped in 2 hits. Not so linear. I can name many more examples but I'd be called a newb liar I guess, because WOW is a linear theme park with no randomness at all=)
Besides, on a PvP server there is nothing predictable about PvE when at any moment you're in a fight with another player. Good times for all I say.
I don't mind handholding in the form of tutorials or hints, as long as I can skip or turn them off, which most MMOs tend to let you do. So I don't quite see the problem. I enjoy doing a tutorial for a new game because its a good measuring stick as to how well the developer can develop. If they can't make a decent tutorial, things aren't looking good for the rest of the game. Its like the UI. If it sucks, the game is going to suck too. Great games are intutive. You don't really need much hand holding to "get it". Developers that don't even bother trying to explain things, letting you figure it all out, are hiding something, usually BAD, overly confusing design.
When will the hand holding stop?
When you stop putting your hand out. You do not have to use any of the ingame tools.
--John Ruskin
Great example. The older generation of MMOs were very much class based, level grinders...but at least the worlds weren't so freakin linear. This is one legit beef with newer MMOs, their game worlds are very linear and segmented.
I can't stand this type of design in any genre, but it's especially disappointing to see in mmorpg's, whose key feature is suppose to be open, persistant worlds. DAOC really is a good example, because the PvE was extremely bland and grindy, yet it still has a different "feel" from newer MMOs because of how open the world was. Higher level mobs were mixed in closer to the lower levels and would some times spawn in low level areas. You didn't have this ridiculous zone progression (not to the same extent at least) from 1-10, 10-20, 20-30, etc.
Accessibility is one thing, but removing any form of risk is taking it too far. So what if a group of noobs wanders across the river and gets wiped by those high level mobs? That's how you learn, that's how we use to learn.
The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month.
I played on the Hibernian side from launch, and there was a road that was traveled up and down to get to the areas of which you needed to level just a few steps off that road. How is a practically straight line that you walked/rode a horse on up and down... not "linear"?
You said "The more static, sterile, and predictable you make the game world, the more boring it becomes to every one that's been playing these games more than 1 month." Oldschool sandboxes had just what you were bitching about. Want a FBSS in EQ? You know the same mob in the same area is the only mob in existence that has the potential of dropping one. That's pretty goddamned static. Need to level from 38-39 in DAoC? You need to go camp those "high level mobs" that are lvl 38-40 across the lake where you went as a noob and got wiped two months ago. Guess what? They're still there. That. Is. Static. It's predictable. It's the same, damned thing. Sorry bud.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
I love how so many people don't get the idea that a game can still be deep and engaging while having an in-depth tutorial which explains the game to new players.
Well, a lot of us old-timers grew up on grinding games like EQ. No tutorial and you began where you needed to be.
When you moved prematurely to a new zone and got smoked in one shot, that was all the tutorial that you needed to tell you that you weren't ready to be there yet.
Pretty much the same thing happens in WoW.
Not really. In WoW you go from quest hub to quest hub, where the NPCs tell you to go, because Blizzard thinks (and rightly so) that WoW players are too dumb to figure out what to do without someone/something constantly telling them what to do.
It's funny, imagine WoW with no quests. Their players would just collect herbs all day and not know how to level up. Everyone in WoW would be stuck at level 1 because they are not smart enough to figure out, there is an instance there, or, there is a camp of NPCs there.
WoW is pure hand holding. There is just no freedom in WoW. You're forced into doing retarded and meaningless quests from level 1-80, unless you want to take twice as long to level up. Anyway, I guess that is needed because WoW players are so dumb. Imagine a WOW player going into a game like EQ. They are so dumb they wouldn't even be able to navigate their way out of a town like Cabilis or Freeport. They'd probably need an NPC to give them a quest to leave the town, with an arrow on their minimap, in order to get them to leave.
God forbid a WoW player used their brain in a real MMORPG. And their endgame is equally pathetic and trivial as the whole leveling up thing. Linear progression of endgame content, not to mention dumbed down & no penalties for losing. It's funny that not all guilds in WoW are at endgame though, considering the game is so hand-holding and forgiving. If you wipe in an instance, you can just go back and have infinite retries.
Here is the kind of raids I want to see in a future MMORPG:
and then when you wipe you get a 30 minute corpse run if you didn't camp any rezzers.
Sick of these retarded MMORPGs giving infinite retries for equally retarded players who brute force their way through content, because they can't manage to stop and think for a second how to defeat a certain raid encounter.
Well, a lot of us old-timers grew up on grinding games like EQ. No tutorial and you began where you needed to be.
When you moved prematurely to a new zone and got smoked in one shot, that was all the tutorial that you needed to tell you that you weren't ready to be there yet.
Pretty much the same thing happens in WoW.
Not really. In WoW you go from quest hub to quest hub, where the NPCs tell you to go, because Blizzard thinks (and rightly so) that WoW players are too dumb to figure out what to do without someone/something constantly telling them what to do.
It's funny, imagine WoW with no quests. Their players would just collect herbs all day and not know how to level up. Everyone in WoW would be stuck at level 1 because they are not smart enough to figure out, there is an instance there, or, there is a camp of NPCs there.
WoW is pure hand holding. There is just no freedom in WoW. You're forced into doing retarded and meaningless quests from level 1-80, unless you want to take twice as long to level up. Anyway, I guess that is needed because WoW players are so dumb. Imagine a WOW player going into a game like EQ. They are so dumb they wouldn't even be able to navigate their way out of a town like Cabilis or Freeport. They'd probably need an NPC to give them a quest to leave the town, with an arrow on their minimap, in order to get them to leave.
God forbid a WoW player used their brain in a real MMORPG. And their endgame is equally pathetic and trivial as the whole leveling up thing. Linear progression of endgame content, not to mention dumbed down & no penalties for losing. It's funny that not all guilds in WoW are at endgame though, considering the game is so hand-holding and forgiving. If you wipe in an instance, you can just go back and have infinite retries.
Here is the kind of raids I want to see in a future MMORPG:
and then when you wipe you get a 30 minute corpse run if you didn't camp any rezzers.
Sick of these retarded MMORPGs giving infinite retries for equally retarded players who brute force their way through content, because they can't manage to stop and think for a second how to defeat a certain raid encounter.
probably one reason game like everquest are still fairly popular
no handholding is nice,i would love it if pvp server were without frill like right now
no add-on,no coordinate not quest map helper etc etc etc
just the game,if you want hand holding you can always go on regular server or rp server
the problem start when player say do it your self
lol .it has to be every player.
i dont seat it too much because blizzard is already looking in to this and so far they dont like what they have found out
lot of player are truelly op and lot of the stuff those player use isnt avail .its their own aad-on
oh they use the tool given by blizzard but since those guys are programmer they can make it do way more then the average joe
the way it look ,blizzard will probably stop this add-on and all the other stuff and just supply an standard game
this would be great oh lot of legal cheater whine and say learn to play noob but the fact is not many player have 30 hour a week
left to program a freaking game.and most want a lvl playing field not biased like its been since start of bc
lets face it right now its so biased toward the programmer you can bet on x guy and you will always win because
guys like me dont have time to learn to program and dont want to .they just want to play a game that is fair
wich right now im sorry to say wow hasnt been fair.oh we all got the tool but some like me (majority dont want to
loose time learning about fucking hidden mecanic lieke coefficient of damage .add-on etc etc etc
im sorry if i wanted a second job i would go flip burger at mcdonald
So let me get this straight, most of you are complaining about tutorials? Really? Every single game, whether it was an mmo, an rts, an fps, an rpg, or even a flight sim, that I have played has had a turorial and every single one of those had the option of turning the tutorials off. I mean of all the things to complain about.
Now some of you are talking about linear worlds, that is another story in itself and not really related to "hand holding".
Well, a lot of us old-timers grew up on grinding games like EQ. No tutorial and you began where you needed to be.
When you moved prematurely to a new zone and got smoked in one shot, that was all the tutorial that you needed to tell you that you weren't ready to be there yet.
Pretty much the same thing happens in WoW.
Not really. In WoW you go from quest hub to quest hub, where the NPCs tell you to go, because Blizzard thinks (and rightly so) that WoW players are too dumb to figure out what to do without someone/something constantly telling them what to do.
It's funny, imagine WoW with no quests. Their players would just collect herbs all day and not know how to level up. Everyone in WoW would be stuck at level 1 because they are not smart enough to figure out, there is an instance there, or, there is a camp of NPCs there.
WoW is pure hand holding. There is just no freedom in WoW. You're forced into doing retarded and meaningless quests from level 1-80, unless you want to take twice as long to level up. Anyway, I guess that is needed because WoW players are so dumb. Imagine a WOW player going into a game like EQ. They are so dumb they wouldn't even be able to navigate their way out of a town like Cabilis or Freeport. They'd probably need an NPC to give them a quest to leave the town, with an arrow on their minimap, in order to get them to leave.
God forbid a WoW player used their brain in a real MMORPG. And their endgame is equally pathetic and trivial as the whole leveling up thing. Linear progression of endgame content, not to mention dumbed down & no penalties for losing. It's funny that not all guilds in WoW are at endgame though, considering the game is so hand-holding and forgiving. If you wipe in an instance, you can just go back and have infinite retries.
Here is the kind of raids I want to see in a future MMORPG:
and then when you wipe you get a 30 minute corpse run if you didn't camp any rezzers.
Sick of these retarded MMORPGs giving infinite retries for equally retarded players who brute force their way through content, because they can't manage to stop and think for a second how to defeat a certain raid encounter.
We know you are too dumb to understand that it is not necessary to call ppl dumb just b/c they play a damn game differently.
If games are all you have in your life to assess wisdom, I understand why you have to keep calling people dumb, I guess you keep hearing the word wherever you go. A person like you who judge people by the way they spend their leisure times hardly have any intelligence left in his skull.
Keep murmuring the words dumb, that is yourself in summary.
sorry but tutorials are needed. The elitism in this thread is amazing. The only way the genre shifts from casual gamers back to hardcore is for the hardcore gamer base to grow. That happens when someone new plays a game which requires a tutorial. Im glad some of you dont need tutorials because you played every MMO that came out but not everyone has.
You dont need handhelding when you learn how to walk.
in mmo terms
change gray items to purples
in gaming terms
hi hi sandbox bye bye tivoli
but
they are building tivolis inside sandboxes now,even older sandboxes "all hail game director ,lets dance around this table and all yell we have tivol nowi,we made it!
after a month question marker spawns over their heads "?"
what happened mr.game director?why theres no people rushing into our tivoli?and all original inhabitants are packing their stuff too and leaving? -they ask
-i dont know ,says mr.game director
and asks
-where are they going?
Generation P
What isn't mentionned is that the hardcore players also want a top of the line, ultra modern, bug free, well supported MMO which will cost 100 million dollars or more to develop and will need several hundred thousand players paying monthly fees for several years to break even.
Someone offers some hints and directions in the game and you must follow it?
Is there any mechanism in the game that stops you from bravely ignoring the game hints and march out blindly, bravely, recklessly, in full determination, to die or glory?
No. You can surely do it.
But you do not want to, you just come to rant, because you decide not to go out and explore. Instead you decided to explore here and create a thread to moan.
"Oh mom, there is a prefect in the school helping us find our way to the toilet. I can no longer explore the school any more ..."
Man, you are so off here. Most recent mmos have levels right? Just like schools have classes that stretches upwards. And can I tell you, levels are just a fucking long tutorial!
Do you think I can just create a character in wow and travel to any zone I want? Sure I can but the game is not designed that way, I could explore and enjoy the eye candy thats presented to me, but not much more. The fact is that games with levels are designed to be a long pathed tutorial. You move from one zone to the other like climbing a ladder, and trying yourself at a zone (ladder step) thats later in the tutorial you are practically stuck.
What you are saying is like "Buhu mom there are so many classes I have to take to get my degree. I can no longer just go out and work as a lawyer or what not the age of 6." Because that's how the game(s) (career) are/is designed.
Sure, at the age of six you can manage perfectly in the world, but I fucking doubt you would even get a job. In fact I think theres law against people that young working actually.
In a game like Darkfall or Eve everything is presented to you right off the bat, the world is seeming less and it doesn't matter how old your character or what skill he needs to do x or y.
Alright alright alright, shake it shake it.
my roommate is playing WoW again, the dungeons already come to u now lol.
Wait... so you're saying that people were sending in complaints because they were unable to find quest items, and that's why they added sparklies to them?
As in, "I couldn't find this quest item and it can't be that I'm not looking hard enough, or perhaps not following the quest dialog that tells me where to look (reading is for n00bs lol)... It must be something wrong with the game, so fix it. I don't care that others are finding the items just fine. I can't, so it's a problem".
Seriously?
If that's so, then people are even more lazy and spoiled than I thought.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops