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No death penalty solo games means no heroes.
Ihmotepp
Member Posts: 14,495
I remember playing EQ and there were some pretty stiff death penalties. You lost everything you were carrying, all your gear, and you had to do a corpse run to get your stuff back. If you died some where nasty and dangerous, it could be quite a challenge to get your gear back. And there was a timer, so if you didn't get it in a couple of days, all your stuff disappeared.
And grouping was important. Not the sort of Zerg feeling of WoW pre-raid game, but a real coordinated effort, with very little room for error, and lots of coordination was required in EQ.
Many times when it looked like a party wipe, the Tank would hold off the mob while everyone else made a run for it. The tank would die, taking one for the team, and hoping everyone would come back and give him a rez, or at least help him get his stuff back.
And you appreciated that a player was willing to die so you could get away.
But these days, it doesn't really seem to matter. The coordination isn't that tight, and a party wipe doesn't mean much except a quick jaunt back to where you were quest grinding, if you even bother to do that. You might as well just head off adn do something else, it's not like the group xp will level you that much quicker, and it's not like you really need the help for anything, and you can always just join another zerg group later, if you feel like it.
I don't know, it just seems most games lack any sort of feeling of danger these days.
Comments
Nah, developers just realised that its alot more profitable to make games for people with lives, instead of people who have 10+ hours of free time per day.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Name one MMO with no death penalty?
OH! You mean a strict "waste my time unless I have 8 hours a day", death penalty. I understand.
Games are for fun and entertainment. Try not to forget this.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
The thread title is right on. No heroes, just accountants manipulating the system to get the shineys faster.
If I ever see a forced-grouping, third-person, cash shop-free MMO, I will play it. I don't even care about the IP or genre anymore. I am totally sick of feeble creeps with no sense of adventure or social skills.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Maybe some people dont want to accomplsh anything besides fun. Ever thought of that? Or maybe they already accomplish enough in real life and want a game world that doesnt kick them in the teeth everytime they die.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
I'm with the OP on this one.
Without that sense of danger, you also loose the sense of accomplishment.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
What possible risk is there in a video game, other than potential spousal aggro or carpal tunnel?
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Because we all know solitaire can always be won.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Because we all know solitaire can always be won.
No, because there is no penalty for failure.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
www.finalfantasyxi.com/ Your Welcome
So you are saying logos are not hardcore enough, nor sandbox enough, and the fail penalty is to week.
You sir, have never done anything of worth with legos then.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
I guess some people are better than others at drawing lines between real life and computer games.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I can't get it here, and I don't shop online. Not to mention there are no time cards that I know of.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Who uses games to get a sense of accomplishment. They are entertainment nothing more nothing less. Although i think there should be some penalty to dying why not just put it in raids so if you die in a raid you lose at least one piece of your gear.
Because we all know solitaire can always be won.
No, because there is no penalty for failure.
Except defeat, and having to restart.
This is a mater of degrees, something this site cant understand with its binary thought.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I can't get it here, and I don't shop online. Not to mention there are no time cards that I know of.
Or, you are just not as hardcore as you claim to be, but you play one on the forums.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
Without a challenge to overcome and a risk assosiated with failing to overcome that challenge you might as well be watching tv.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
And you'll find a lot of the TV audience has migrated to the internet, looking for casual ways to unwind after a hard days work.
No flame backs, all i read was the last post ^_^
I look for a sense of accomplishment in virtually everything I do.
Playing a game is not the same as playing with a toy - like LEGOs. Accomplishing things is how Human beings have made our living conditions better over the millenia.
There is competition in games, and victory shows ability and drive. Those are very good traits to develop in one's character.
...indicating that "virtually everything you do" is play video games.
Given your example of legos, it seems that creativity is not an accomplishment, then?
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
Without a challenge to overcome and a risk assosiated with failing to overcome that challenge you might as well be watching tv.
I know of no MMO that lacks a challenge to overcome.
But I already see your "old hat" argument. That without risk, there is no challenge.
Risk does not create challenge.
Name one MMO with no death penalty?
Champions Online has no death penalty, you instantly reload about 30 seconds away from where you died. Big villains will regain part of their health if teamates die, so zerging is not a viable strategy for raid bosses etc, but players are not penalized for dying.
There is a token system of 5 stars that give a total of +6.5% damage/healing bonus, each defeat causes you to lose a star or part of one. The stars slowly come back, and all five come back within 30 minutes.
This system works for me because shame is the only death penalty I need in a game. Reversing the progress I've made just adds injury to insult. Some medium sized missions in CO are designed for a team, but can be soloed by a zergling; does this make the mission easy? Not for me, since I get a lot more satisfaction out of beating the mission without being defeated.
The solution is to have both kinds of games for different players. I also don't care for poker (it is not even recognizable as a game to me), but people who want real risk should be able to have it in MMOs, sure.
Cryptic is trying a Customer Development approach to MMO creation.
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
Without a challenge to overcome and a risk assosiated with failing to overcome that challenge you might as well be watching tv.
I know of no MMO that lacks a challenge to overcome.
But I already see your "old hat" argument. That without risk, there is no challenge.
Risk does not create challenge.
People should play more chess. Now there is a game with no risk that is all about challenge. Where failure is the penalty in itself.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
No risk means no accomplishment. You might as well be playing solitaire.
Sad that you look to a game for a sense of accomplishment.
Without a challenge to overcome and a risk assosiated with failing to overcome that challenge you might as well be watching tv.
Exactly.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to accomplish something in an mmo. There lots of singleplayer games that offer this kind of gameplay. Besides advancing one's character is basically akin to some sort of acomplishment. And without any risk these games would be completely dull and probably have few customers over the age of 12. Some of us have moved on from Super Mario Bros even though it's fun to return for the nostalgia every now and then.
If you don't want to accomplish anything or risk anything in an mmo fair enough. But don't call someone sad because they want some excitement and complexity to their games.