Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Should have been expected
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
I like how the only argument still is that you just dont like that all the mobs are yellow in a starter zone. Even a WoW player like myself who played 4-5 years ago and never got above level 37 can get through the first zone in oh, like 30 minutes. You are whining about this moot point.
Blizzard is stream lining the beginning part of their game because it is all about end game now. It used to be fun to do all the missions and run around and see places and run into people and play with them, but a large portion of wows population is 80 and or powerleveling to it.
Ya we still get the newbies every once in a while and that's fine too. I don think this minor adjustment to STARTER zones is affecting their development, and i can see the logic from one point anyway. You aggro 2-3 things at level 1, you're screwed. Not only is that discouraging for the new player, the powerleveler is pissed off because he already has to rez because of some random spawn. This does not effect the integrity of the game and should be ignored like many other small things in this world that people blow out of proportion.
Yes, that is clearly what I'm saying.
You don't understand how one thing can turn into a chain of events. My point is clearly, instead of removing what some may find challenging, add more to challenge them. Seriously dude, if you can't get past the starting zone you don't belong here in the first place.
Will red spiders be in the starter zones when World of Starcraft launches. anyone ?
MAGA
Don't understand why you are complaining about it?
Go beat Arthas then say WoW is too easy. (lol)
I find it nice that Blizz lets people get through the boring parts faster so that they can do the end game content WoW is known for.
Never understood why people are so obsessed with wanting to struggle through the boring parts of a game.
I chose paying to have fun in a game over paying to play a virtual job. (lol)
Inherited Will, the Destiny of the Age, and the Dreams of its People. These are things that will not be stopped. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be! - Gol D. Roger
So how does this fall onto me and my opinion? The fact that everything pre-80 is boring is Blizzards fault, it has nothing to do with challenge. A challenge can still be fun and has nothing to do with bits and pieces of the game being boring. If you guys wanna get through everything faster, keep demanding changes much like this one. Eventually you will all start out at top level, without a clue as to how things work.
As for Arthas, sure no problem. I'm the the guy wanting a challenge, the one that will advance faster then those avoiding them, remember? Let's keep this degradation up.
Uhm, wouldn't it be better to make the whole game fun instead of letting people pass the "boring parts" (which in your opinion is most of the game).
The "boring parts" are boring because they are too easy. Making most of the game really easy and a little of it really hard doesn't seem like such a brilliant idea to me.
Hopefully will the make these parts better with cataclysm but from what you are saying should everyone just be able to be 80 from the start because everything under is just a boring grind to play the game... That just doesn't sound like fun to me at least.
If you make it so just the endgame is fun, why even keep the old game?
I can't really understand how you can say so and think that it is a good idea. If you would have thought that the rest of the content still is hard enough to be fun, no problem but saying that 90% of the game you play sucks seems just odd to me.
Holy crap, people really are running out of things to complain about.
What's next? Trees are the wrong shade of green?
I tried restarting a toon in WoW not long before I decided to call it quits. It truly has turned into a mindless quest grind to max level...then a gear grind once your there.
Worth the $15 on month? Not for me
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
I don't fall back on analogies to prove my points, so don't expect any from me.
I already agreed to not everybody agreeing with the changes, I don't care if I'm in the minority or majority or not either.
I wouldn't have known the change was made, but that's clearly not the point I'm trying to make. I'm not a stubborn old gamer that will let little things like this keep me from playing I will adapt, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I guess I got my answer though. I hope Blizzard keeps in mind sometimes you can't learn anything unless you have a difficult time from time to time. I'll see where this goes. I just hope it doesn't go any further then this. I'm not sure how long you have played WoW, but would you not agree there is a very large amount of players at 80 not able to pull the minimum DPS while being geared to do so? Bad tanks and healers as well. I just believe these guys were not challenged enough, and now they have a long road of encountering impatient players that will drop them from the group if they don't perform to basic expectations.
You're a Hunter, right? If you played vanilla WoW, do you remember or did you do the Petrified Leaf chain? If so you know how challenging those fights were. It taught you advanced kiting, how abilities were situational and showed you understood your class.
All I'm asking is for more challenges like this one.
If You guys have not seen the quest, this is 1/4 and was my favorite and most rewarding one out of all of them.
I've been playing hunter since Vanillia (4 months after release), I remember dieing a whole bunch of times in the spider cave in the Nelf starting area but maybe that was my newbness, I also had no idea about stats I thought 1 stamina was 1hp not 10hp untill about level 20. Them were the days
I never had the joy of the hunter epic quest, I had the sinue but the priest item would always drop from the chest in MC.. grrr.
But if a hunter cannot kite by level 60 then killing level 5 red mobs would not do him any good.
Going back and looking at the starter area as an experienced player is always going to seem easy, but a new player has no idea about stats, gear, range, spell ranks, aggro range etc... even more so if they are new MMO's.
Uhm, wouldn't it be better to make the whole game fun instead of letting people pass the "boring parts" (which in your opinion is most of the game).
The "boring parts" are boring because they are too easy. Making most of the game really easy and a little of it really hard doesn't seem like such a brilliant idea to me.
Hopefully will the make these parts better with cataclysm but from what you are saying should everyone just be able to be 80 from the start because everything under is just a boring grind to play the game... That just doesn't sound like fun to me at least.
If you make it so just the endgame is fun, why even keep the old game?
I can't really understand how you can say so and think that it is a good idea. If you would have thought that the rest of the content still is hard enough to be fun, no problem but saying that 90% of the game you play sucks seems just odd to me.
I have to agree, the journey is supposed to be fun and I always enjoyed leveling up in WOW, it was the end game that ran me into the ground.
Once out of the starter zone I would hope developers would try to make the content fun and engaging all the way up, and not save everything for "endgame"
Because endgame is exactly that... a great time to leave and find yourself another game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you read the patch notes, it specifically said that they tweaked things at the beginner to make the new user experience more accomodating.
I don't fall back on analogies to prove my points, so don't expect any from me.
I already agreed to not everybody agreeing with the changes, I don't care if I'm in the minority or majority or not either.
I wouldn't have known the change was made, but that's clearly not the point I'm trying to make. I'm not a stubborn old gamer that will let little things like this keep me from playing I will adapt, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I guess I got my answer though. I hope Blizzard keeps in mind sometimes you can't learn anything unless you have a difficult time from time to time. I'll see where this goes. I just hope it doesn't go any further then this. I'm not sure how long you have played WoW, but would you not agree there is a very large amount of players at 80 not able to pull the minimum DPS while being geared to do so? Bad tanks and healers as well. I just believe these guys were not challenged enough, and now they have a long road of encountering impatient players that will drop them from the group if they don't perform to basic expectations.
You're a Hunter, right? If you played vanilla WoW, do you remember or did you do the Petrified Leaf chain? If so you know how challenging those fights were. It taught you advanced kiting, how abilities were situational and showed you understood your class.
All I'm asking is for more challenges like this one.
If You guys have not seen the quest, this is 1/4 and was my favorite and most rewarding one out of all of them.
I've been playing hunter since Vanillia (4 months after release), I remember dieing a whole bunch of times in the spider cave in the Nelf starting area but maybe that was my newbness, I also had no idea about stats I thought 1 stamina was 1hp not 10hp untill about level 20. Them were the days
I never had the joy of the hunter epic quest, I had the sinue but the priest item would always drop from the chest in MC.. grrr.
But if a hunter cannot kite by level 60 then killing level 5 red mobs would not do him any good.
Going back and looking at the starter area as an experienced player is always going to seem easy, but a new player has no idea about stats, gear, range, spell ranks, aggro range etc... even more so if they are new MMO's.
Again, this does not all revolve around the starting zone. These things work in a chain of events, right now the starting zones are to hard, next the other zones will be hard, then eventually leveling will be to hard all together.
I don't understand what you mean by being level 60 and not doing the player any good. Let me first make it clear, I'm asking for challenges like this while leveling as well, not just at cap. In my opinion there is always room for improvement, even if you're level 60 that quest could still be challenging for you, thus improving your as a player.
In the OP's original post I really didn't sense any hostility, not sense in WoW lovers to attack him so much. All he did was simply state his past experiences and not that the game had become easier in comparison to what he remembered. He did make a few implications that Blizzard doesn't know what it's doing by making it so easy, as a few others noted by stating it's just a few low level mobs... which is also true. In my opinion it was a much needed change that, after all these years of observations, they decided to make the starting experience even more player friendly. They were simply changes that maybe required a few day's work in total until the release of their next expansion, of which would change the mobs in all areas, would be a more complete overhaul.
In Elwynn they changed the young wolves into "Plagued Young Wolves", perhaps to give people more of a reason to fight and kill them via quests. I know of people who refused the quests at start because they were wolf lovers -- but who wouldn't want to end the suffering of an unhealable creature of which you have no personal attachment towards?
In any case, the Azeroth and Kalimdor continents are being reshapped and redone, both environmentally and with mobs in the next patch. Places such as Desolace will be full of water, trees, grasslands, etc... to give an example. In addition they are changing the levels of areas... I believe you will actually be able to level all the way to 1-70 and 80-85 in Azeroth alone, only needing to go to northrend for 70-80. Plaguelands are being dropped to level 40 mobs, and places that are also being redone with new graphics are having places that had level 30-60 mobs (not in that total range, but in general to the area), might have level 65-68/80-85 mobs in them now.
New water graphics are also being introduced into the game in addition to the graphics overhaul of all of the old vanilla zones. The maps will also be more complete as they are adding in such places as Gilneas, the Maelstrom, the World Tree, and whatever other places on the map that didn't light up when you scrolled over them due to them not being there.
This is my entire point to this thread. I wanted a reason as to why this move was made, I got "data shows it's difficult to new players". I'm hoping this wont change the challenges deeper into the world. I would hate for "data" to change things people complain about instead of, idk, using the group function and over coming it instead of changing it all together.
Btw that's another thing, if you're dying in the starting zone, you can group to overcome it.
This is my entire point to this thread. I wanted a reason as to why this move was made, I got "data shows it's difficult to new players". I'm hoping this wont change the challenges deeper into the world. I would hate for "data" to change things people complain about instead of, idk, using the group function and over coming it instead of changing it all together.
Btw that's another thing, if you're dying in the starting zone, you can group to overcome it.
In my post previous to this one I noted several reasons that I hope any reading this will recap on if they haven't read before.
Though, in addition to all of that, and in response to this, they are adding thousands of new quests into the newly shapped vanilla zones in the expasion to add more storyline at the beginning.
You can see some of the new graphics via youtube by typeing in "Goblin Gameplay Starting Zone - Cataclysm" without the quotes.
In addition, examples of zone changes via "World of Warcraft: Cataclysm BlizzCon 2009 Trailer HD MMOG P" on the same source...
The world cosmetics are nice and all, I don't have a problem with those, those are more then welcomed.
I'm just hoping simple things like this don't turn into large problems. I'm not saying make the game extremely hard. I'm asking for players to support challenges for other players including themselves. Without them you will never be any better then the day you started. And no saying "the challenge is 80" is not acceptable, I would really hate to go unchallenged to finally reach endgame finding myself lacking knowledge of my class.
While I agree the change was unneeded, is it really that bad?
Do you plan to spend six hours in that starting zone?
Cause I don't...
...I'm there for thirty minutes and then I'm gone.
Playing - Champions Online
Unsure Of - Darkfall, Star Trek Online
Waiting For - Star Wars: The Old Republic, All Points Bulletin
Played - Age Of Conan, Everquest II, Mabinogi, Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, World Of Warcraft
Why does a game have to be so hard that only 5 people can manage it? What do you get from that, more ego stroking? What if you are not one of the 5 people that can play it, will you come here and moan about how hard it is?
Games are not about draconian problem-solving, they are about entertainment. When I log in to play a game, I don't want a second job, I want to be...entertained. Instead of complaining about a game that doesn't rise to your level of prowess, go find one that does.
If the mobs in the starter areas are too easy for one as mighty as yourself, go solo some of the 5-man instances, that should give you some satisfaction...
At this point I'm a bit tired of repeating myself and about to call it quits.
It's not about this one change. It was a simple question trying to get to the root of the decision. I got my answer, I'm hoping that answer does not spread to other far more important obstacles.
What a game is will be opinionated, if games are only about entertainment for you, good, I'm glad you found your own personal reasons for playing.
I to like entertainment, I also like the reward of taking on something challenging. I'm NOT asking for WoW to be cutthroat hardcore, I'm asking for players to be challenged in some way. It's an MMO, if you plan on progressing you should plan on encountering challenges.
The world cosmetics are nice and all, I don't have a problem with those, those are more then welcomed.
I'm just hoping simple things like this don't turn into large problems. I'm not saying make the game extremely hard. I'm asking for players to support challenges for other players including themselves. Without them you will never be any better then the day you started. And no saying "the challenge is 80" is not acceptable, I would really hate to go unchallenged to finally reach endgame finding myself lacking knowledge of my class.
I agree completely that your concerns are perfectly valid. When you play a game and enjoy it, you worry about the future of it; without such worry things may never be changed or go in the wrong way. I was a closed beta tester (2nd phase) way back before open beta in original WoW and loved the challenges that came with it. Epics were incredibly rare back then, there were no battlegrounds until a year after launch, and a level 60 in full blues was considered a demigod. Strath was a 10 man raid of which people still wiped constantly. Those in Tier 2 equipment tried in with five people, and blizzard soon put in the 45 minute time limit for five people to get the extra loot and a shot at a new mount.
There they challenged those already proven to take on tough and rare tasks via 40 man raids. Soon after, with the introduction of easier ways to get gear, they lowered the difficulty slightly and made it a 5 man dungeon permanently. Back then Battlegrounds were the hardest way in which to get good gear time wise -- as you had to get close to 500,000-1,500,000 Honor a week for close to nine months straight to obtain and maintain a good PvP rank in which to get gear. Then they made it so honor stayed with you and you could purchase items with it, as opposed to having the PvP rank associated with purchasing the armor.
That's when it all turned to, if you'll pardon the expression, shit.
I'm hoping with the new overhaul and storytelling process, especially with their instancing technology, they have come to realize that we want -some- challenge in the game. People expect to be able to grind epics now... Fine, let's keep that for the masses. But let's make armor identical in stats to their gear, but with different and more badass aethestics and make them very challenging to get -- Vanilla style. People will still be able to experience content with their powerful gear, but those taking joy from the work that comes from accomplishments and the rewards it offers still have something to strive for.
In short, I agree with you almost completely.
The world cosmetics are nice and all, I don't have a problem with those, those are more then welcomed.
I'm just hoping simple things like this don't turn into large problems. I'm not saying make the game extremely hard. I'm asking for players to support challenges for other players including themselves. Without them you will never be any better then the day you started. And no saying "the challenge is 80" is not acceptable, I would really hate to go unchallenged to finally reach endgame finding myself lacking knowledge of my class.
I agree completely that your concerns are perfectly valid. When you play a game and enjoy it, you worry about the future of it; without such worry things may never be changed or go in the wrong way. I was a closed beta tester (2nd phase) way back before open beta in original WoW and loved the challenges that came with it. Epics were incredibly rare back then, there were no battlegrounds until a year after launch, and a level 60 in full blues was considered a demigod. Strath was a 10 man raid of which people still wiped constantly. Those in Tier 2 equipment tried in with five people, and blizzard soon put in the 45 minute time limit for five people to get the extra loot and a shot at a new mount.
There they challenged those already proven to take on tough and rare tasks via 40 man raids. Soon after, with the introduction of easier ways to get gear, they lowered the difficulty slightly and made it a 5 man dungeon permanently. Back then Battlegrounds were the hardest way in which to get good gear time wise -- as you had to get close to 500,000-1,500,000 Honor a week for close to nine months straight to obtain and maintain a good PvP rank in which to get gear. Then they made it so honor stayed with you and you could purchase items with it, as opposed to having the PvP rank associated with purchasing the armor.
That's when it all turned to, if you'll pardon the expression, shit.
I'm hoping with the new overhaul and storytelling process, especially with their instancing technology, they have come to realize that we want -some- challenge in the game. People expect to be able to grind epics now... Fine, let's keep that for the masses. But let's make armor identical in stats to their gear, but with different and more badass aethestics and make them very challenging to get -- Vanilla style. People will still be able to experience content with their powerful gear, but those taking joy from the work that comes from accomplishments and the rewards it offers still have something to strive for.
In short, I agree with you almost completely.
Yup I remember all of that, I began playing in open beta a.k.a. stress test.
I do miss those days, I have adapted, but as I said earlier it does not mean I have to agree with the changes. I guess there is nothing I can do about it.
Sadly, yes. Though I do like the idea of practically playing a new game via the new expansion.
My ideals derive from memories of vanilla and the world in which it took place in -- I view new expansions, this one in particular, to be a fresh start in acceptance and will resist major changes in patches beyond that. I guess I'm just old fashioned like that.
With the new graphics, quests, zones, items, races, etc... Well, it's just about time for us "old timers" via gamewise to make memories memories... and embrace the "new game" like it was a vanilla in itself. It doesn't mean we can't look at a place such as the barrens and recall memories of when it used to be an unscarred place... But just think of it as a fond memory that the new players with roll their eyes at and look at us like we're old timers. Haha.
What do you think of the new water graphics? This is the second or third time they changed them. I think they look rather nice now.
The new looking for group system is also nice... I was playing an alt the other day and managed to do Scarlet Monastery like seven times in a row. It reminded me of the old days when it was very easy to get groups for it as everyone was near that level.
What a game is will be opinionated, if games are only about entertainment for you, good, I'm glad you found your own personal reasons for playing.
I to like entertainment, I also like the reward of taking on something challenging. I'm NOT asking for WoW to be cutthroat hardcore, I'm asking for players to be challenged in some way. It's an MMO, if you plan on progressing you should plan on encountering challenges.
May I suggest an alternative strategy? Try playing several games. Don't try to get everything from a single game. Sometimes, I play wow, sometimes, it's Guild Wars. And sometimes, I'll even spend a little time with DDO, because I enjoy the puzzle-based problem solving and the ability to dungeon crawl in a short period time. Hell, I still play Diablo 2 for some quick hack-and-slash.
Your only problem is that you haven't stopped playing the game for good yet.