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Another STO review.
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What the Original Poster has done is just clarify what is known to be short-comings of STO. And for many who are so disinterested in this game after some honest experience juxtaposed to other games in this genre, and juxtaposed to what are considered mmo/mmorpg design staples, just might come away with the impression that STO is a cleverly designed, rudimentary space shooter with very primitive game-play.
That’s not to say that those that want to invest in something so elementary or basic is wrong; it’s just that others have essential expectations for a product in a genre that has been evolving and advancing, only to see many of those fundamental or evolutionary features not make it into STO.
So to recap on the Origonal Posters experience, I might have shared much of the same experience on the Klingon side of the fence.
• Space combat is linear, non-dynamic. Limited z-axis that accentuates the feel of non-space and its shoe-box, tethered design.
• All weapons do have the same range which eliminates tactical potential and differentiation based on distance.
• As an mmorpg (Cryptics description), space and ground combat has the most limiting, non-existent pve of any game in the genre to have existed, I think.
• Exploration is non-existant. There is no exploration, interaction or game-play whereby you can explore anything as a player and against the back-drop of a story-line; no space or planet exploration.
• Ground and Space pvp combat amounts to a frag-fest of non-tactical or strategic importance in any respect in a faction vs. faction environment. Like a fps without any game-play contributory value, other than winning a map, it amounts to run, gun, die, or run,gun, limp, die. But your rewarded as much for being a loser as a winner; no mmoprg game-play distinction.
• Space is small, confined and life-less. Again, this ties to the lack of pve, and feeling as though there is nothing dynamically to do in this game.
• Mmorpg community is very fragmented to one of several small instanced zones, which doesn’t drive or contribute to a mmorpg community feel of cooperation or engagement with or against the environment or faction players towards some massively multiplayer entertainment.
• No alternative industry, aka, no resource gathering towards community crafting, enterprise, or merchandising elements for the federation or klingons. Would be nice if this mmorpg staple were available to players, rather than being non-existant.
• Game-play feels very static, the same gameplay over and over again in the same or simlar map against the same hordes of the same ships.
And there are several other shortcomings, but these are just some example experiences as a once hopeful optimist.
So, it's a terrible game... had a feeling. Free trial please.
I have no experience with most of the games you mentioned but SWG was the first MMORPG that I played from 2004-2006. It's interesting you bring up the NGE when the truth is it was brought around to "appease" the people who hated the game EG: Jedi as a starter profession, no more item decay, faster paced combat, no more standing in lines etc..
If you tried appeasing the haters of STO an NGE is exactly what you would get and it would piss off the people that already like the game.So respectfully I say thanks but no thanks.
lol as another poster said they waved off what the community said in regards to this as being just the vocal minority. The backlash on this was so huge MMORPG.com added a special forum for the ranting and raving SWG fans.
If you tried to appease the STO community and put this game back in the oven to cook some more and added content and through in a bit of diversity in the content as people are asking who would that exactly piss off? If your going to make the claim then please explain lol. If you gave players more than 3 slots who would that tick off? I mean seriously let me know why you would think this would upset anyone. All around it would be a good thing for all players fans and haters alike
. But you seem to think otherwise....
And SWG's NGE is an incident that speaks for itself theres no need for me to explain it to you. I will help you out a little though so you can understand how well the community took to the whole NGE thing. Look up Jeff Freeman, that should give you all you need to understand just how much the SWG community appreciated NGE.
Here I will help you out with a link to one article if you wish.
www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/801-SWG-NGE-Crying-Freeman
I will even give you a little quote from Mr. Freeman who if you by chance still don't know after the above was a developer on SWG's and singled out as the master mind behind NGE.
Because I spent almost six years working on SWG, and it kills me that the only people who liked it, hate me. Frequently for misinformed reasons.
Content is one thing, mechanics is another. The crying/complaining I see mostly (check the bullet points of the OP) are mostly about mechanics. No one will argue about adding content into their game.......well that actually depends on the game and the content.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
The NGE was NOT brought up by the players, players wanted fixes in the existing game (pre-CU) such as doctor buffs, armor encumberance and resists, Jedi balance, and so forth. The CU was acceptable because devs mentioned it before publish 9, it was highly buggy at first but after 4 months it was enjoyable once the major things were fixed then suddenly Smedly shoves this fucking NGE upon us within 2 weeks after we found out about it (most of us took it as a "haha good one" joke) but the rage spread when it became reality, and I'm sure you remember Smedly's "the CU is here to stay" 3 weeks before the NGE. WE DID NOT WANT THE NGE!
I have no experience with most of the games you mentioned but SWG was the first MMORPG that I played from 2004-2006. It's interesting you bring up the NGE when the truth is it was brought around to "appease" the people who hated the game EG: Jedi as a starter profession, no more item decay, faster paced combat, no more standing in lines etc..
If you tried appeasing the haters of STO an NGE is exactly what you would get and it would piss off the people that already like the game.So respectfully I say thanks but no thanks.
lol as another poster said they waved off what the community said in regards to this as being just the vocal minority. The backlash on this was so huge MMORPG.com added a special forum for the ranting and raving SWG fans.
If you tried to appease the STO community and put this game back in the oven to cook some more and added content and through in a bit of diversity in the content as people are asking who would that exactly piss off? If your going to make the claim then please explain lol. If you gave players more than 3 slots who would that tick off? I mean seriously let me know why you would think this would upset anyone. All around it would be a good thing for all players fans and haters alike
. But you seem to think otherwise....
And SWG's NGE is an incident that speaks for itself theres no need for me to explain it to you. I will help you out a little though so you can understand how well the community took to the whole NGE thing. Look up Jeff Freeman, that should give you all you need to understand just how much the SWG community appreciated NGE.
Here I will help you out with a link to one article if you wish.
www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/801-SWG-NGE-Crying-Freeman
I will even give you a little quote from Mr. Freeman who if you by chance still don't know after the above was a developer on SWG's and singled out as the master mind behind NGE.
Because I spent almost six years working on SWG, and it kills me that the only people who liked it, hate me. Frequently for misinformed reasons.
Content is one thing, mechanics is another. The crying/complaining I see mostly (check the bullet points of the OP) are mostly about mechanics. No one will argue about adding content into their game.......well that actually depends on the game and the content.
Throwing it back into the oven is referring to more development time, which one would expect to be used to fine tune/fix mechanics and other things. Notice I added it as a separate point instead of lumping it in with additional content etc.
Failed game? You are completely full of it.
STO is a total blast to play.
There are MANY options to tactics in space and ground. Anyone who says otherwise has no clue how to play.
The new patch yesterday unlocked many things. There are no major bugs I've seen.
Space is very much so 3d, just because you can't fly straight up don't mean it's 2d
This game has a ton of content. It's very well thought out. A very solid game.
I love how everyones a expert on STO when NONE of them whining have ever experienced what STO has beyond being a week old nub.
I am in beta. I am no fanboi and had NO plans to play STO beyond trying beta. Beta has me hooked after getting out of the new player area. SO much is in game already I give kudos to the devs. MMO community is so saturated with spoiled crybabies. Go suck your bottle while I enjoy my new game.
STO is a welcome surprise.
I have to disagree with your statement that if you appeased STO haters you'd get an NGE. STO is already mind-numbingly simple with no reason to socialize or do anything other than kill kill kill. If you appeased STO haters, you'd end up with a game with some depth. You just couldn't shove it into the game after only 2 weeks of testing and just 2 months of development time as was done with the NGE. No, if time was taken to properly integrate the changes, you would arrive at a far superior game.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
lol as another poster said they waved off what the community said in regards to this as being just the vocal minority. The backlash on this was so huge MMORPG.com added a special forum for the ranting and raving SWG fans.
If you tried to appease the STO community and put this game back in the oven to cook some more and added content and through in a bit of diversity in the content as people are asking who would that exactly piss off? If your going to make the claim then please explain lol. If you gave players more than 3 slots who would that tick off? I mean seriously let me know why you would think this would upset anyone. All around it would be a good thing for all players fans and haters alike
. But you seem to think otherwise....
This is why I rarely respond to your posts. You take what I say and twist it completely out of context. I'm not talking about the people that have contructive criticisms for minor stuff like that and you know it. I'm talking about those of you who want player crews or something that in fundamental design is the opposite of what this game is. You know,the people that have been bashing the game for the last year because it isn't a Star Trek simulator. That is who I am referring to. I'm not talking about the people that were already following the game on the official forums. And just for future reference, I've been a member of the STO community for the last year so don't even try and "educate" me on what that community thinks of the game.
And SWG's NGE is an incident that speaks for itself theres no need for me to explain it to you. I will help you out a little though so you can understand how well the community took to the whole NGE thing.
Um....where did I say that the community took the NGE well? I remember perfectly well how the SWG players took it seeing as how I was actually there when it was implemented. Once again you swing and miss.
This is why I rarely respond to your posts. You take what I say and twist it completely out of context. I'm not talking about the people that have contructive criticisms for minor stuff like that and you know it.
The problem is that this is what the majority of the haters are asking for. So... I'm not sure how I twisted your words unless you are trying to pass off the majority of the complaints as simple trolls and nothing more. Most are constructive criticisms, the troll bash posts are in the minority.
Your either trying to pass off the complaints that so many seem to have as everyone just being a blind "Hater" or you simply do not realize that the majority of the complaints are constructive and asking for more char slots, more dev time, more content, and more diversity in the content. All very reasonable requests and yes they are the majority of the complaints. So how would appeasing them hurt the game? How exactly did I twist your words?
Um....where did I say that the community took the NGE well? I remember perfectly well how the SWG players took it seeing as how I was actually there when it was implemented. Once again you swing and miss.
It's interesting you bring up the NGE when the truth is it was brought around to "appease" the people who hated the game EG: Jedi as a starter profession, no more item decay, faster paced combat, no more standing in lines etc..
To appease is to give people what they want. If you are saying they gave people what they want would that not mean it would be well received? Where was this mass outcry asking for this to begin with for you to assume it was meant to "appease" the community? The entire time people were saying no, so again how would this appease anyone?
It wasn't asked for and it wasn't well received. If they had listened to the "Haters" then the game may have been fairly popular still today.
Now tell me thats a swing and a miss...
STO in beta has FAR less bugs then the 6 year old SWG! It is very ready to launch. The patch yesterday was a kick ass upgrade that was more about opening up the previously locked sectors.
Not sure why people put so much effort into trolling this game. If you don't like it, go play something else. I find something fishy with this OP making so much effort and time just to flame a game with a bunch of nonsense and false statements. 1st post is a extensive flame of STO just before release?
As for ANYONE who bases a choice on playing STO from posts on this forum, you will miss out on a very fun and addictive game. I had NO intention of playing STO before I tried it. I am so glad my guild who left SWG talked me into checking out STO with a beta key.
As for insults about using their own CO COH engine which THEY DESIGNED FROM THE GROUND UP, and have been upgrading it so much over the years, the SWTOR forums are just a click away. Bioware DID NOT make TORs engine. They just skinned Heroes Journey. Why would Cryptic throw out such a well working engine they have been upgrading for so many years? STO does NOT play like COH/CO
No STO is not that imaginary Mecca be all end all of MMOs but it is a fun solid game with a ton of content.
The new patch was sweet. They tweaked and fixed, and delt with massive amounts of beta testing traffic. This game is VERY ready to launch. It has a ton of potential and is a MASSIVE game, now that I get to see more of the newly unlocked sectors.
Deepspace 9 is in, You can even land on Vulcan. The universe is huge
What a pity, what a waste of a great IP.
STO is not an MMORPG, it is a MOG at best. A single Player game with multiplayer support. A simple one at that. I wouldn't even buy it if it was advertised as a single player title.
The whole concept is total failure. Heavy Instancing is the single most idiotic design decision for any MMO developer to make. It is the easy way out, the poor mans solution to an otherwise more complex system. It probably saaves them millions in server hardware too.
I tried CO and knew: STO is gonna fail hard.
Of course, it's fun at the beginning. Its new and fresh. Some will realise this sooner, others later or never. There will be blinded fanboys that WANT THIS TITLE TO SUCCEED. But it wont. It will dwindle off into a lower mediocre state and fade out in a slow and mostly unnoticed implosion.
And with this chapter finished, I look forward to SW:ToR with a concerned face. Storys that revolve around the players avatar means instancing...
We need a new game genre: MOGs. Online games that do not even try to be massive. It seems to be the direction most Developers want to take because its cheaper, easier, faster.
Damn I really wanted to like this game, but holy shit. They messed this up beyond repair in the concepting phase allready lol.
I have to disagree with your statement that if you appeased STO haters you'd get an NGE. STO is already mind-numbingly simple with no reason to socialize or do anything other than kill kill kill. If you appeased STO haters, you'd end up with a game with some depth. You just couldn't shove it into the game after only 2 weeks of testing and just 2 months of development time as was done with the NGE. No, if time was taken to properly integrate the changes, you would arrive at a far superior game.
Wrong
Try playing past the new player areas. Many missions make you think. My guild member was just cheering how much thought his mission took. He was impressed he had to THINK of the solution to his mission. Not just click through text not reading anything.
Again hate for this game comes from people who have NO CLUE what they are talking about. Beta wasn't even open to any sectors past nub sector till YESTERDAY! NOT because it was broken. They wanted to sqeeze everyone as tight together as possible to totally stress test the server shards.
STO is a very solid game. All the "trekkies" in my Guild who is leaving SWG are very happy with all the Star Trek in game.
STO in beta has FAR less bugs then the 6 year old SWG! It is very ready to launch. The patch yesterday was a kick ass upgrade that was more about opening up the previously locked sectors.
Not sure why people put so much effort into trolling this game. If you don't like it, go play something else. I find something fishy with this OP making so much effort and time just to flame a game with a bunch of nonsense and false statements. 1st post is a extensive flame of STO just before release?
As for ANYONE who bases a choice on playing STO from posts on this forum, you will miss out on a very fun and addictive game. I had NO intention of playing STO before I tried it. I am so glad my guild who left SWG talked me into checking out STO with a beta key.
As for insults about using their own CO COH engine which THEY DESIGNED FROM THE GROUND UP, and have been upgrading it so much over the years, the SWTOR forums are just a click away. Bioware DID NOT make TORs engine. They just skinned Heroes Journey. Why would Cryptic throw out such a well working engine they have been upgrading for so many years? STO does NOT play like COH/CO
No STO is not that imaginary Mecca be all end all of MMOs but it is a fun solid game with a ton of content.
The new patch was sweet. They tweaked and fixed, and delt with massive amounts of beta testing traffic. This game is VERY ready to launch. It has a ton of potential and is a MASSIVE game, now that I get to see more of the newly unlocked sectors.
Deepspace 9 is in, You can even land on Vulcan. The universe is huge
again the lack of bugs stems from the fact that there is just so little in or to the game. CO had this same "quality". The problem with this is that what would generally be considered a minor thing in any other game can be game breaking because of this lack of content. One broken quest can literally halt your progression to varying degrees. This had a major impact on CO when it came to endgame because the endgame was nothing but the Unity missions, if you did not complete the one you took you could get no more and there were some Unity missions that were broken and you were not able to complete them meaning you no longer had an endgame at all. If you dropped a Unity mission because it was bugged you could never receive another. This was fixed many months later I believe but for months a single quest being bugged meant the game was over.
Yes Cryptic tends to have polish when it comes to bugs. That is directly due to how little they give you. It's like talking about how polished your brass doorknob is compared to a chromed out Harley that you just took took to Florida for bike week.
Are they playing the current version of SWG or are they from the pre-NGE version? If they are from the former, how did they last so long playing that game ?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You bash STO for being lazy and praise SWTOR?
Bioware didn't even make the game engine! They simply outscourced Heroes Journey and reskinned it! You think SWTOR is going to be a one world sandbox? If so you will be VERY disappointed.
The shard design is very smart as there is no separate servers. I for one can tell you seperate servers creates MANY problems. Look at SWG for one. I got my main stuck on a ghost town of a server, all while other servers are nice and populated. You will never be stuck on a dead server in STO.
EVE is the one MMO that is currently doing well with a single server, BUT I have seen major problems when you get tons of people massed. You can feel the server cry when hundreds of people are together. ALSO EVE is NOT going to have 1 server for it's avatars. It will be split in shards of about 40 people in each
I did not praise SW:ToR. Infact, even though i hold Bioware in very high regard, I think there is a big chance they will will fuck that game up. I think it will end up being a single player expirience too, with co-op modus, because there is supposed to be a whole storyline just for you, instanced. Mass Effect Online if you wish.
I won't hold my breath, but I will be sure to post a "Told you so" here when it happens hehe
PS: The "Single Server" if you want to call it so is one of the very few features I like about CO and STO for the reasons you just said. But at the same time it also means that there will be 100s of instances of the same zone. And for every mission you do there will be a myriad of instances to pass through. Some public, some closed to your avatar.
Thats what makes or breaks an MMO for me. I cant get lost in a world like that. In classic titles you would be in some dungeon and call some friends over. Meet other people on they way down that have nothing to do with you. Maybe they would train your group and you would write their names down on the "idiots" list. Or maybe make friends with them.
Thats what an MMO is all about. If i want instances all for myself I can play single player games. Vanguard has nice seamless open world dungeons. SWG had nice seamless open world dungeons, huge planetary surfaces, multi person spaceships.
Both games where ruined. But they were still better than all that rushed trash thats coming out these days.
I do play EVE Online now, and it seems like a good "investment". Those new trashy games you ask yourself: Will it last one year, maybe two?
I have started to despise the MMORPG industry, the developers that make every shitty feature or design decision sound like its the best thing since sliced bread. I just can't hear it anymore and I give them the middle finger by not buying their shitty products.
Are they playing the current version of SWG or are they from the pre-NGE version? If they are from the former, how did they last so long playing that game ?
I played SWG from launch till NGE, then returned in 2008 and am active today, although not for long as the guild is switching to STO. SWG would be great if SOE would pull their head out of their own arse.
My guild is Iron Circle (gorath server), the members I am refering to are the core that have been in SWG from launch to now.
Why so long in SWG? Well other MMO's have sucked worse. NO MMO offers all the sandbox features SWG has. I'm just tired of these latest devs and stupid things like Fairey Ewoks, the TCG scam.
STO is not for everyone, but it is a very solid and polished game.
PS I do hope SWTOR is good also. I also am not holding my breath. Again I say STO was a very welcome positive surprise for me.
Well that seems to sum up everything positive people have to say about STO... Its Star Trek so we love it!
I think soon the fans will defend how cheap and rushed the game feels by: "Its Star trek, its supposed to be cheap and rushed" and the combat is awfull by "Its Star Trek, combat is supposed to be awfull" etc.
You are being scammed: "But its Star trek, we are supposed to be... oh wait a minute..."
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Uhh No....If you know anything about Trekkies, they would be the first to HATE the game if it was sub-par. Trek fans are even more brutal about the IP then even Star Wars fans.
am far from a Trekkie. You don't have to like Star Trek at all to enjoy this game.
I still love how people judge this game so indepth when never even experiencing it past nooby land.
That's ok because closed minded people are best left to other MMO's. So far the community in STO is top notch and mature.
Gound combat both pve/pvp is a blast to play. There are many tactics to use, lots of cool gear. Space is the same. Many options on your style of play.
Cheap and rushed? That statement is just so full of BS. The game runs smooth even scales down nice to lesser PC. The graphics are mint especially if you got a good gaming rig.
rushed? you know how long this game has been in development? This game is VERY polished. Beta has been some tweaking till yesterdays major patch that was more of unlocking the sectors that were closed off. It's called final stress testing. With the massive flux of testers I think STO has done a great job. I have been in a bunch of betas before and this game is far more polished then all the others I tested.
I am still undecided but am raising a hind leg in favor
K of 9
MAGA
lol that dogs face is just screaming WTF are you doing to me!
Don't get me wrong, I am NOT defending Trekkies, just the game
Quote:
"Theres very little options available to combat, you can fire, turn, control speed (although it really has no much effect), balance shields, ... and almost anuthing more, no targetable ship's sub systems, no weapon groups configuration, none of the usual match speed, chase, lock, etc etc features in other (and older) space combat games."
OP, please go back to beta and PLAY the game, just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's not in the game. I just barely made Lt. Commander and my ship has the skills to target sub systems Weapons, Engines, Shields and Aux Power. As well as you can train your BO's to obtain these skills as soon as you get 75 Starfleet credits.
As for Match speed, Chase, Lock etc... Do you really need a skill to click to help you out in that department? You bitch about making it dumbed down, yet you bitch about not having skills to help you with this. Use your eyes to match the speed and angle of the target, give chase as you maneuver behind, is it really that hard. There are skills to lock in the game, but of course, you didn't bother to look.
This isn't a matter of liking different things, its about what kind of product Cryptic is feeding people.
I have never made a new account, I don't know what you're on about. I don't post much simply because I don't see a reason to. I play games, and if I don't like them I quit and play another. However in this case, something is really wrong, and people should know.
The fact you are trying to teach me manners says enough about you.
Ofcourse its about liking different things. For you STO is bad for others its not. You are shocked that someone might actually enjoy something you hate. Well thats life buddy. Thousands of players are having fun so they obviously can't tell you in person. So if you are telling me you can somehow convince all these players, that they should not enjoy the game they will look at you as if you are crazy.
I didn't like Avatar but i didn't go telling the whole world that you shouldn't watch it. Its all about personal taste.
Have it your way, talking to you is a waste of life.
@ the OP, good work..
You'd be the expert on wasting your life.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Yes, you are right, i use to come to MMORPG.com to look for opinions, and check for nw titles, but never felt the need to register and share my thoughts about a game, but Cryptic has really pissed me, i cant understand how a company with some success, can release a game like STO in 2010, and more when they are using a Franchise like Star Trek that guaranties fans coming to the game, its frustrating, so i thought that maybe if some one reads my comments and just keeps away from STO, maybe, if more people does it, Cryptic will notice they dont have the support they were looking for and next time they design a game acordingly to its time.
You mean the next time they need to design a game that matches your personal preferences better, because that's all you're really talking about - your opinion.
A game not matching your personal preferences or tastes doesn't make it a "failed game". How arrogant. It just makes it a game you don't like. Big difference there.
Again, almost every single thing listed in the original post is based on your opinion, and only your opinion, which is worthless to everyone except you. Will some share your opinion about STO? Sure they will. Does everyone share your opinion? No, they don't. Who's right? Who has the authority to factually proclaim it a success or failure? None of us.
That's the biggest problem with MMO gamers these days - a misguided sense of entitlement in players believing they are MMO "experts" because they've played one or more other MMOs, or that their definition of an MMO is the only "right" one.
Anyway, I disagree with almost every point you list, and am having a lot more fun with the game than I initially expected. To each his own - perhaps the OP will find a game that fits his tastes more closely.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
And sadly they don't make 'em like that any longer.
Im amazed people haven't taken advantage of under or overhead shots more in the game. If you fly at a enemy from a forward or side angle you can only hit one quad of a shield. You either have to go over, under or around the enemy to reach the enemies other quads.
There is a trick though. Fly over a enemy at enough height, tilt down or up and you can hit all the quads with minute change of angle. The enemy has to spiral up to get to your height, which gives you plenty of time to stay in the sweet spot and destroy any ship. Of course large groups of enemies are tricky to deal with still. The games way more complex them people realize as far as combat.
All in all I love the game. I just want more mission detail! There is so many things they can do with this game and probably will over the years. We will see though. Its not like I have to keep subing.