To even compare it to LotrO is insane! LotrO got more content during their first 6 months than other MMOs get in 18 months. (maybe thanks to all the money they got from lifetimers?) Turbine announced a long time ago that they wre going to have 1 payed expansion every year and they are sticking to that and having free updates between. Sure not as many as the first 6 months but I dont see ow they are able to make twice as much content as other MMOs without charging for it, especially since they dont use microstransaction like all SOE games, WoW and STO/CO... That Atari have the nerve to charge extra for content that fill in the gaps in the game ontop of bx+monthly sub+RMT is just pure greed.
Have yo noticed how short changed we been in lotro since then. Im like SOM was epic fail, and the LI sysem epic fail. Yes the first year of the game was great but LOTRO has been grinding to a slow halt since then. And you want to talk about greed, I will call the AP pack in lotro greed.
I am more than happy to pay for xpacs but if they are releasing this within the year I'm sorry but I just see that as content they didn't have time to fit in for launch.
I will stay subbed, I'm enjoying the game and whats there, but there is plenty to fix and plenty to add. Add using the subs that I will be paying and expect them to be developing the game with. An xpac thats worthy of charging for should not be something that 'feels' as though it should have been there anyway and takes a damn site longer than a year to develop, usually worked on by a team in excess of the games dev team, hence the extra charge.
If they want to start charging for updates thats fine but get rid of the sub and see how many people you lose, tbh I feel thus far out of what is currently there I will get value for money, but not in a million years will I play a game with a mall, especially one that charges for something I feel a sub should pay for (this includes cosmetic items, if they have time to make fluff that's excellent but they did it while being paid with my sub so don't fkin try and charge me for something I've already paid for).
However at this time it doesn't make sense to get irate about something that hasn't even happened yet.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Ahem, where to begin? Oh right, with the "if it isn't polished at launch, it'll tank" mentality. Everquest, the big great grandaddy of MMO's, the one that made big media with stories of addiction and husbands firing up laptops in the delivery room so not even their crotchfruit's birth would stop their camping of Jboots, released with a level cap of 50, but only spells up to level 29 were implemented World of Warcraft, on launch day, had server queues on the level that made the multi hour Aion waits look -good- by comparison, and yet, at this point, it's the most popular MMO on the market (not going by opinion, but by subs, and yes, RMT counts, as that's still money in blizz's pocket)
Ahem, where to begin?
Oh right, with the "comparing apples and oranges" mentality. Comparing a game released in the current MMO market to EQ or even WoW is equivalent to comparing a modern hard drive in its market with the cassette player drive on a TRS 80 and its historical market. Just stop, there is no valid comparison to be made between EQ and any current game in today's market.
And WoW with "multi hour" queues on launch? I played WoW launch and remember some sign in lag and lots of times when servers just weren't up, but don't remember anything even resembling "multi hour Aion waits" when the servers were up. I think you are fabricating. I didn't like WoW, but it did release with four months or so of working content, which is more than CO can say.
As far as CO goes, will be funny as hell to see Cryptic backtracking on this and whatever spin they choose to apply. Fact is, no one at Cryptic even plays CO, they don't experience what players do, and don't pay any attention to the forums unless they are caught with their pants compltely down, like in this instance. It's funny how their few posts and releases show how utterly out of touch they are with the game. It's as if they are looking for a huge tax writeoff and are trying to turn CO into that while trying to squeeze out the last bit o cash.
Originally posted by sanskrit And WoW with "multi hour" queues on launch? I played WoW launch and remember some sign in lag and lots of times when servers just weren't up, but don't remember anything even resembling "multi hour Aion waits" when the servers were up. I think you are fabricating. I didn't like WoW, but it did release with four months or so of working content, which is more than CO can say.
No, he's right about the WoW launch. It was pretty bad for a multitude of reasons. It's still a bad example though because of how much free time they gave players because of the issues they had. Not to mention the content that was added to the game without additional charges after launch such as additional dungeons, quests, PvP battlegrounds and rank system, etc.
Not like you could say Cryptic did any of those things near as well or to the extent Blizzard did so not sure why anyone would compare the two games. Except to show how one did a good job at handling its launch woes and the other is falling flat on its face.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have been a long time supporter of the developers of CO. I like their product. I enjoy the game. Frankly, I think the engine is better than many out there and the content that exists is quite good.
With that being said, I have to admit that the doomsayers who predicted a blatant money grab were right.
The doomsayers who attacked the game based on Roper are still totally off base, in my opinion. It is a fun game. The mechanics are cool. It just needs more things to do. I think the money decisions are likely being made well over the devs heads.
It's a shame. I really wanted this to be a long term game for me. Bought a six month, and won't feel cheated. However, I won't be re-upping either.
Originally posted by bstripp I have been a long time supporter of the developers of CO. I like their product. I enjoy the game. Frankly, I think the engine is better than many out there and the content that exists is quite good. With that being said, I have to admit that the doomsayers who predicted a blatant money grab were right. The doomsayers who attacked the game based on Roper are still totally off base, in my opinion. It is a fun game. The mechanics are cool. It just needs more things to do. I think the money decisions are likely being made well over the devs heads. It's a shame. I really wanted this to be a long term game for me. Bought a six month, and won't feel cheated. However, I won't be re-upping either.
I'm in the same boat. I have a 6 month sub but I will renew it solely because I'm curios as to what they will do next. I agree that they seemed to be intent on wringing every last penny out of the players and, frankly, it pisses me off to see another great game getting shafted. I too thought of the game as a long term home but depending on the release, I'll stay or go. If the expansion is a real Expansion then I'll spring for it. If it's a single zone with a couple of mission chains...bye.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Cryptic pulled a lot of bullshit and they are still trying to do so. It's unfortunate what happend to CO because I liked it for a while but seeing what's going on just reinforces my idea to quit a while ago.
Just sick of companies trying to shaft you and I don't feel sorry for everyone that have been buying the lifetimes for little benefits. Ultimately you have the choice, if you want to support a company that will give you an inch for more money than a company that would give you a mile for the same or lesser price then it's your choice.
It looks like STO is the next victimizer but I can't say that for sure but with how things are going my only advice is; it's your choice and you have to live with it.
I like how this thread was moved from the Star Trek Online forums into the CO forums. My whole purpose to this post was to warn the STO players. How many of them do you think will see this here? What a BS move by the moderator. They obviously didn't get the point or they would have left it there.
Yesterday Cryptic announced an upcoming expansion for Champions Online as well as a patch that went live early this morning. The patch was free, but the upcoming expansion is not and it has the community in an uproar. This is considering the fact that game launched, as many would say, unfinished or incomplete. They are charging for a Level 37-40 (current level cap is already 40) single zone addition. No new powersets, no amazing new features beyond being able to go back and redo old missions in a "flashback" system as well as repeating the Halloween event to coincide with real full moons. While those features do sound cool they are merely repeat content. This game has major content gaps and the main last zone to level 34-40 has been unplayable. It may have been fixed with the latest patch but still. This new expansion is content that should have already been in the game at launch, and we as patient fans of the game have waited for them to fix the issues. They have not and are now wanting to charge us for what I feel should be free, as do most others. Please see the link below to see for yourself. If Cryptic is doing us this way, won't they to you guys with STO? I am a lifetime subscriber to CO and right now I am regretting my choice. Think long and hard before signing up for the lifetime. Consider yourselves warned. forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php
The fact that it doesnt expand the level cap certainly makes it sound like it doesnt matter for shit if you buy it or let it rot. If you're already max level and there are already zones in the game to take you to 40, who cares about some crumby new zone? Although...i dont see anywhere on here where it says they are going to charge the playerbase for it....maybe i'm just blind but i did read through it kinda fast. :P
I have been a long time supporter of the developers of CO. I like their product. I enjoy the game. Frankly, I think the engine is better than many out there and the content that exists is quite good.
With that being said, I have to admit that the doomsayers who predicted a blatant money grab were right.
The doomsayers who attacked the game based on Roper are still totally off base, in my opinion. It is a fun game. The mechanics are cool. It just needs more things to do. I think the money decisions are likely being made well over the devs heads.
It's a shame. I really wanted this to be a long term game for me. Bought a six month, and won't feel cheated. However, I won't be re-upping either.
I'm in the same boat. I have a 6 month sub but I will renew it solely because I'm curios as to what they will do next. I agree that they seemed to be intent on wringing every last penny out of the players and, frankly, it pisses me off to see another great game getting shafted. I too thought of the game as a long term home but depending on the release, I'll stay or go. If the expansion is a real Expansion then I'll spring for it. If it's a single zone with a couple of mission chains...bye.
Just so you know, I cost me zero to see what they do next. Wow companies must love customers like you.
For those that dont see where it says we have to pay for it. Daeke came on the forums and posted saying and I quote:
"I'll cut off this speculation before it even begins. Vibora will be our first paid content expansion. I can't talk pricing yet, but it will not be something on the scale of a full boxed game. It is a new zone, and will be priced accordingly." Daeke
Originally posted by HorrorScope Originally posted by Leethe
Originally posted by bstripp I have been a long time supporter of the developers of CO. I like their product. I enjoy the game. Frankly, I think the engine is better than many out there and the content that exists is quite good. With that being said, I have to admit that the doomsayers who predicted a blatant money grab were right. The doomsayers who attacked the game based on Roper are still totally off base, in my opinion. It is a fun game. The mechanics are cool. It just needs more things to do. I think the money decisions are likely being made well over the devs heads. It's a shame. I really wanted this to be a long term game for me. Bought a six month, and won't feel cheated. However, I won't be re-upping either.
I'm in the same boat. I have a 6 month sub but I will renew it solely because I'm curios as to what they will do next. I agree that they seemed to be intent on wringing every last penny out of the players and, frankly, it pisses me off to see another great game getting shafted. I too thought of the game as a long term home but depending on the release, I'll stay or go. If the expansion is a real Expansion then I'll spring for it. If it's a single zone with a couple of mission chains...bye.
Just so you know, I cost me zero to see what they do next. Wow companies must love customers like you.
What can I say, I have money to burn. paying a sub till I find out more about the new content is pretty negligible to me so...whatever.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Online gaming is the fastest growing segment of the industry. The online business model consists in creating compelling online content that builds active communities with enough value to justify:
· a monthly subscription fee;
· micropayments.
That is hilarious, do I even need to explain the irony?
Straight from the Atari business plan: Online gaming is the fastest growing segment of the industry. The online business model consists in creating compelling online content that builds active communities with enough value to justify: · a monthly subscription fee; · micropayments. That is hilarious, do I even need to explain the irony?
One of our better forumites posted that and some other things on the CO website. It pretty much explains everything that has happened until now. Not pleasant reading at all. But you really should have included this little gem too:
Engage!
These updates are entirely free to Star Trek Online subscribers. To begin your Star Trek Online adventure today, visit our retail page to purchase your copy. And check out our exclusive specials page to see what great deals we're offering on subscription packages.
We'll see you February 2, 2010!
Just because we're about to launch Star Trek Online doesn't mean we don't have some great updates ready for you in the coming weeks. From endgame raid Episodes, to more PvP maps, to more Klingon content, no matter what you love about STO we've got something you'll love even more. Here's a taste what we have planned over the next two months. And just in case you were wondering, everything listed here is free!
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Straight from the Atari business plan: Online gaming is the fastest growing segment of the industry. The online business model consists in creating compelling online content that builds active communities with enough value to justify: · a monthly subscription fee; · micropayments. That is hilarious, do I even need to explain the irony?
One of our better forumites posted that and some other things on the CO website. It pretty much explains everything that has happened until now. Not pleasant reading at all. But you really should have included this little gem too:
Engage!
These updates are entirely free to Star Trek Online subscribers. To begin your Star Trek Online adventure today, visit our retail page to purchase your copy. And check out our exclusive specials page to see what great deals we're offering on subscription packages.
We'll see you February 2, 2010!
Just because we're about to launch Star Trek Online doesn't mean we don't have some great updates ready for you in the coming weeks. From endgame raid Episodes, to more PvP maps, to more Klingon content, no matter what you love about STO we've got something you'll love even more. Here's a taste what we have planned over the next two months. And just in case you were wondering, everything listed here is free!
Comments
Have yo noticed how short changed we been in lotro since then. Im like SOM was epic fail, and the LI sysem epic fail. Yes the first year of the game was great but LOTRO has been grinding to a slow halt since then. And you want to talk about greed, I will call the AP pack in lotro greed.
I am more than happy to pay for xpacs but if they are releasing this within the year I'm sorry but I just see that as content they didn't have time to fit in for launch.
I will stay subbed, I'm enjoying the game and whats there, but there is plenty to fix and plenty to add. Add using the subs that I will be paying and expect them to be developing the game with. An xpac thats worthy of charging for should not be something that 'feels' as though it should have been there anyway and takes a damn site longer than a year to develop, usually worked on by a team in excess of the games dev team, hence the extra charge.
If they want to start charging for updates thats fine but get rid of the sub and see how many people you lose, tbh I feel thus far out of what is currently there I will get value for money, but not in a million years will I play a game with a mall, especially one that charges for something I feel a sub should pay for (this includes cosmetic items, if they have time to make fluff that's excellent but they did it while being paid with my sub so don't fkin try and charge me for something I've already paid for).
However at this time it doesn't make sense to get irate about something that hasn't even happened yet.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Ahem, where to begin?
Oh right, with the "comparing apples and oranges" mentality. Comparing a game released in the current MMO market to EQ or even WoW is equivalent to comparing a modern hard drive in its market with the cassette player drive on a TRS 80 and its historical market. Just stop, there is no valid comparison to be made between EQ and any current game in today's market.
And WoW with "multi hour" queues on launch? I played WoW launch and remember some sign in lag and lots of times when servers just weren't up, but don't remember anything even resembling "multi hour Aion waits" when the servers were up. I think you are fabricating. I didn't like WoW, but it did release with four months or so of working content, which is more than CO can say.
As far as CO goes, will be funny as hell to see Cryptic backtracking on this and whatever spin they choose to apply. Fact is, no one at Cryptic even plays CO, they don't experience what players do, and don't pay any attention to the forums unless they are caught with their pants compltely down, like in this instance. It's funny how their few posts and releases show how utterly out of touch they are with the game. It's as if they are looking for a huge tax writeoff and are trying to turn CO into that while trying to squeeze out the last bit o cash.
No, he's right about the WoW launch. It was pretty bad for a multitude of reasons. It's still a bad example though because of how much free time they gave players because of the issues they had. Not to mention the content that was added to the game without additional charges after launch such as additional dungeons, quests, PvP battlegrounds and rank system, etc.
Not like you could say Cryptic did any of those things near as well or to the extent Blizzard did so not sure why anyone would compare the two games. Except to show how one did a good job at handling its launch woes and the other is falling flat on its face.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I have been a long time supporter of the developers of CO. I like their product. I enjoy the game. Frankly, I think the engine is better than many out there and the content that exists is quite good.
With that being said, I have to admit that the doomsayers who predicted a blatant money grab were right.
The doomsayers who attacked the game based on Roper are still totally off base, in my opinion. It is a fun game. The mechanics are cool. It just needs more things to do. I think the money decisions are likely being made well over the devs heads.
It's a shame. I really wanted this to be a long term game for me. Bought a six month, and won't feel cheated. However, I won't be re-upping either.
I'm in the same boat. I have a 6 month sub but I will renew it solely because I'm curios as to what they will do next. I agree that they seemed to be intent on wringing every last penny out of the players and, frankly, it pisses me off to see another great game getting shafted. I too thought of the game as a long term home but depending on the release, I'll stay or go. If the expansion is a real Expansion then I'll spring for it. If it's a single zone with a couple of mission chains...bye.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Cryptic pulled a lot of bullshit and they are still trying to do so. It's unfortunate what happend to CO because I liked it for a while but seeing what's going on just reinforces my idea to quit a while ago.
Just sick of companies trying to shaft you and I don't feel sorry for everyone that have been buying the lifetimes for little benefits. Ultimately you have the choice, if you want to support a company that will give you an inch for more money than a company that would give you a mile for the same or lesser price then it's your choice.
It looks like STO is the next victimizer but I can't say that for sure but with how things are going my only advice is; it's your choice and you have to live with it.
I like how this thread was moved from the Star Trek Online forums into the CO forums. My whole purpose to this post was to warn the STO players. How many of them do you think will see this here? What a BS move by the moderator. They obviously didn't get the point or they would have left it there.
The fact that it doesnt expand the level cap certainly makes it sound like it doesnt matter for shit if you buy it or let it rot. If you're already max level and there are already zones in the game to take you to 40, who cares about some crumby new zone? Although...i dont see anywhere on here where it says they are going to charge the playerbase for it....maybe i'm just blind but i did read through it kinda fast. :P
If it's not obvious Mr. Roper hates gamers, I don't know what is.
I'm in the same boat. I have a 6 month sub but I will renew it solely because I'm curios as to what they will do next. I agree that they seemed to be intent on wringing every last penny out of the players and, frankly, it pisses me off to see another great game getting shafted. I too thought of the game as a long term home but depending on the release, I'll stay or go. If the expansion is a real Expansion then I'll spring for it. If it's a single zone with a couple of mission chains...bye.
Just so you know, I cost me zero to see what they do next. Wow companies must love customers like you.
For those that dont see where it says we have to pay for it. Daeke came on the forums and posted saying and I quote:
"I'll cut off this speculation before it even begins. Vibora will be our first paid content expansion. I can't talk pricing yet, but it will not be something on the scale of a full boxed game. It is a new zone, and will be priced accordingly." Daeke
corporate.atari.com/infogramesgb/2007/04/strategy_1.php
Ataris business plan.
I'm in the same boat. I have a 6 month sub but I will renew it solely because I'm curios as to what they will do next. I agree that they seemed to be intent on wringing every last penny out of the players and, frankly, it pisses me off to see another great game getting shafted. I too thought of the game as a long term home but depending on the release, I'll stay or go. If the expansion is a real Expansion then I'll spring for it. If it's a single zone with a couple of mission chains...bye.
Just so you know, I cost me zero to see what they do next. Wow companies must love customers like you.
What can I say, I have money to burn. paying a sub till I find out more about the new content is pretty negligible to me so...whatever.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Straight from the Atari business plan:
Online gaming is the fastest growing segment of the industry. The online business model consists in creating compelling online content that builds active communities with enough value to justify:
· a monthly subscription fee;
· micropayments.
That is hilarious, do I even need to explain the irony?
One of our better forumites posted that and some other things on the CO website. It pretty much explains everything that has happened until now. Not pleasant reading at all. But you really should have included this little gem too:
Engage!
These updates are entirely free to Star Trek Online subscribers. To begin your Star Trek Online adventure today, visit our retail page to purchase your copy. And check out our exclusive specials page to see what great deals we're offering on subscription packages.
We'll see you February 2, 2010!
Just because we're about to launch Star Trek Online doesn't mean we don't have some great updates ready for you in the coming weeks. From endgame raid Episodes, to more PvP maps, to more Klingon content, no matter what you love about STO we've got something you'll love even more. Here's a taste what we have planned over the next two months. And just in case you were wondering, everything listed here is free!
which is here: http://www.startrekonline.com/upcoming_content
They're practically rubbing our noses in it.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
One of our better forumites posted that and some other things on the CO website. It pretty much explains everything that has happened until now. Not pleasant reading at all. But you really should have included this little gem too:
Engage!
These updates are entirely free to Star Trek Online subscribers. To begin your Star Trek Online adventure today, visit our retail page to purchase your copy. And check out our exclusive specials page to see what great deals we're offering on subscription packages.
We'll see you February 2, 2010!
Just because we're about to launch Star Trek Online doesn't mean we don't have some great updates ready for you in the coming weeks. From endgame raid Episodes, to more PvP maps, to more Klingon content, no matter what you love about STO we've got something you'll love even more. Here's a taste what we have planned over the next two months. And just in case you were wondering, everything listed here is free!
which is here: http://www.startrekonline.com/upcoming_content
They're practically rubbing our noses in it.
Its not exactly subtle, is it?
I got that link from the CO forums, but Ive lost the thread so couldnt post the link. Interesting reading.
edit: forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php