A linear storyline based game will not be more popular than the more open WoW. What you have to do is make a game that is more open than WoW to beat WoW. Like Darkfall for example. You need innovation, not handcuffs.
YAHTZEE!
This sucker will be hyped to infinity until release just like the countless other "BESTEST!!1ONe" MMOs out there. The problem is, this game will be just another theme park. Sure, it will draw in players like STO but most will leave after the first month or so. You can't keep making these linear type games and expect longevity.
Give us freedom or give us another game.
Yeah, let's compare TOR numbers to Darkfall numbers at launch, after 3 months, and after 6 months. Hope you take embarrassment well...
A linear storyline based game will not be more popular than the more open WoW. What you have to do is make a game that is more open than WoW to beat WoW. Like Darkfall for example. You need innovation, not handcuffs.
YAHTZEE!
This sucker will be hyped to infinity until release just like the countless other "BESTEST!!1ONe" MMOs out there. The problem is, this game will be just another theme park. Sure, it will draw in players like STO but most will leave after the first month or so. You can't keep making these linear type games and expect longevity.
Give us freedom or give us another game.
Yeah, let's compare TOR numbers to Darkfall numbers at launch, after 3 months, and after 6 months. Hope you take embarrassment well...
If you wanna talk percentage wise I'll take that bet. Anyone can jack up a good OP, just look at STO!
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
No at some point every single player realize that WoW has same 5 types of quests which they reuse over and over.
Oh TOR will have those exact same 5 types of quests. It will just be disguised with 10 minutes of dialog before you do it.
It might be a nice distraction for a while, but at some point in time I will need deep and interesting game mechanics to keep me motivated to keep playing. I have yet to be convinced that TOR will be able to provide that.
Haha, go forth, young padiwan, and retrieve 10 gyroscopes from those malfunctioning janitor droids so that we can save the empire!
option1: janitor droids on the loose!? the madness of it all, I will go destroy them at once!
option2: janitor droids on the loose!? i'm not your lackey, i expect to be paid good credits for this!
option3: janitor droids on the loose!? can't someone else do it? no? ah geeze, very well then
Don't get me wrong, I like Bioware games, but I'm not expecting much out of TOR except for a good story, and honestly I hope they allow you to turn off the dialogue, and just read it b/c i read like 10x faster than they can speak...
A linear storyline based game will not be more popular than the more open WoW. What you have to do is make a game that is more open than WoW to beat WoW. Like Darkfall for example. You need innovation, not handcuffs.
Also, granted blizzard is great but there is no way they can break into scfi, they only got StarCraft as their knowledge base and thats RTS.
What, like the way they just had Warcraft and that was RTS?
So Blizzard had no experience in the MMO industry either, other than as players. And look what happened.
Bioware doesn't need experience to crack the market, they just have to be smart. The better question is whether or not they can learn from the examples of all the 'tried and failed' and 'tried and tested' companies that are in and out of the genre.Their RPG games are excellent (IMHO) but an MMO is not a RPG anymore than it is a FPS. Tabula Rasa showed how badly that genre crossover can go.
They have a good IP with Star Wars, but Cryptic can show that the IP is irrelevant to the success of the game. As can LOTRO. It's what you do with it that makes the difference.
Looking for a "WoW Killer" is a waste of time, because it doesn't matter how crap some games are, they'll have their fans to the bitter end. And that's going to be a lot of people in the case of WoW. You could dangle the best thing ever in front of them, and they will still be happy with WoW (like there are people still playing Everquest). How many subs would you have to pull from WoW to "kill" it? 6 million? 10 million?
It would be far more lucrative to create a game that addresses the parts of the market that Blizzard doesn't address with WoW, and I don't mean the 'hardcore' parts, but the parts of the market that are not yet hooked on the MMO format. Redefine the genre, market it to the masses, pull in enough subs and you'll be able to beat that 11 million without even touching the WoW playerbase.
But you have to understand what you're doing before you can do that. Blizzard understood it very well, and that's why WoW was so successful. If Bioware can envision the future in the same way, then we can look forward to great things.
The mmo community is moving from the old style of rat quests, and raid the wabbit hole to more serious character driven and storyline based experiences with world changing events where your character can effect change.
Wait, what?! As far as I can see, the MMO community is just as firmly entrenched in the non-story driven MMOG's as they have always been. Mainly because THERE ARE NO STORY DRIVEN MMOG's right now!
Adding dialog and scripted events is fine. I'm all for that, but I'm not under the delusion that its going to revolutionize the way we play games. I'm excited to see another high quality MMOG coming out. I think it will probably be a great game. But all this hype, and the way people are buying it up, can only lead to one outcome, disappointment.
I see the signs of greatness in the development teams. The Hand writing is on the wall, BLizzards days are coming to an end in one years time. Bioware has challenged the reason of mmos which were an attempt to broaden the gaming experience with massive multiplayer realities. At the time of everquest this was a great way to enhance the experience since graphics or interpersonal story driven game line were not possible at the time.
Now they are,...
So what has happened? A great exodus from mmo gaming because the SP game that we all played from the start before mmos has evolved into a greatness that now topples the mmo universe.
But do not fret, the greatest game is yet to come and it is again from Bioware...in 2011 They will breathe life into mmos again with the launch of the Old republic. Bioware is not lucky, they know what they are doing.
They saw the mmo reality hitting its height with WoW, the Greatest mmo to exist. But, there was no path further unless you delve back into the rpg roots of mmo's and bring forth a new age. YES A NEW AGE IS UPON US! BIOWARE IS BRINGING IT AND THOSE WHO RULED THE PAST WILL BECOME RUST UPON THE STONE TABLETS THAT WILL BE SET FORTH BI THE WARE.
OK, first of all sorry if some of my comments have already been posted by others, but I don't want to read 14 pages of replies to the OP. Second, everytime I see the OP's avatar, I cringe and think to myself "WTF" is he going to pop off with next that seems almost insane. The only reason I say this is because rather then state something that is objective and well thought out, it is often one-sided and stated as if it was fact.
On one note I do have to concur with him and think Bioware is defnitely a great company and I do think they are doing something "out of the norm wtih SWTOR that might give other companies something to think about... but to say that Bioware is the new Blizzard...I don't think so. What about Blizzard's unnamed MMO that is supposed to be next gen? Blizzard has shown they know how to make a game that the majority likes. They are extremely good at producing a game that has polish. WoW may not be for everyone but it does appease a lot of players. When WoW was released it was the game that offerred tons of features that other various MMOs offerred that were very liked, all combined into one.
Will SWTOR be able to get the kinds of subs that WoW has? Maybe, maybe not. If it happens then congrats to them. I don't think any company is setting their #1 goal to beat out Blizzard and WoW.
On topic: Bioware could be a good MMO maker, but they have to realize ... most people don't play WOW for the adventure. The story telling in an MMO is just wall dressing, nothing more. People play to avance their avatars and they create their proper heroic acts - mostly in PvP - , first in levels and then in capacity and gear, far more open options than non WOW players would believe.
Story telling is just window dressing? No at some point every single player realize that WoW has same 5 types of quests which they reuse over and over.Story is what makes care about what you are doing,Good story makes you forgot that you are doing the same 5 quest types over and over.
Honestly the missions in mass effect and dragon age are not very creative but good story enough to ignore the fact that you have been killing the same couple of enemies over and over.Yes gamer today are running through the motions,Aoc was the last game where i cared about the quest,Darkfall was last game where had to read quest.Which is pretty sad.
Bioware needs to do exactly what they are doing and keep their strong story focus.If you can make player care about a story they won't even care that they are grinding mobs.If Bioware DA had quest to kill 100 orcs,WoW had quest to kill 100 orcs,I bet you more people would complain about doing it in WoW.
I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong.
"How long do these story telling games grab your attention ?"
The answer lies in the playing time you devote to them. From 4 weeks to 2 months at the most ...
I know that after the 4th spoken dialogue in AoC, people were doing "push/push/push..." to end the sequence.
Wasn't it Kaplan who said that quests were not supposed to have more than 80 words?
The adventure part is the window dressing in an mmorpg, but the players deliver the active dialogues between themselves, not the NPC's.
And as I type this ... I suddenly see a dark future for SW, as indeed they want to use NPC's to fill in the roles of (shortage) tanks and healers.
Not good. Not good at all. I 'll be honest: I hope you are right, but in the past I didn't see any evidence this story telling would succeed.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
That's funny. WoW seems pretty open to me. I can virtually go anywhere and quest whether I go out of order or not. Half the time I quest I don't even pay attention to story. At least until Northrend. But then again, the Lich King lore is pretty epic IMO. Personally I've never felt restricted. Not like I do in Aion and GW anyways.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
That's funny. WoW seems pretty open to me. I can virtually go anywhere and quest whether I go out of order or not. Half the time I quest I don't even pay attention to story. At least until Northrend. But then again, the Lich King lore is pretty epic IMO. Personally I've never felt restricted. Not like I do in Aion and GW anyways.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
I remember that.. I had to grind mobs for my last 2 levels on my Paladin back then. It wasnt fun to say the least.
That's funny. WoW seems pretty open to me. I can virtually go anywhere and quest whether I go out of order or not. Half the time I quest I don't even pay attention to story. At least until Northrend. But then again, the Lich King lore is pretty epic IMO. Personally I've never felt restricted. Not like I do in Aion and GW anyways.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
I remember that.. I had to grind mobs for my last 2 levels on my Paladin back then. It wasnt fun to say the least.
I played from beta till now and I never grinded on mobs per say you just did a few dungeons to catch up with the slow spots in leveling. It wasn't too bad but it still took over a month to hit max level
How many quests have you done just for the experience points, not because of the gaming experience it provided?
If Bioware has found a way to make quests meaningful and not just something you do because it gives you more experience points per hour than grinding, then I think they win.
LOTRO already did this with their storyline quests. However, the game was 50% fetch/grind quests, 40% grinding, and 10% storyline quests. It took the WoW formula and enriched it, but it did not reinvent the wheel. I expect Bioware to do just that, or fail in mediocrity.
I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong. "How long do these story telling games grab your attention ?" The answer lies in the playing time you devote to them. From 4 weeks to 2 months at the most ... I know that after the 4th spoken dialogue in AoC, people were doing "push/push/push..." to end the sequence. Wasn't it Kaplan who said that quests were not supposed to have more than 80 words? The adventure part is the window dressing in an mmorpg, but the players deliver the active dialogues between themselves, not the NPC's. And as I type this ... I suddenly see a dark future for SW, as indeed they want to use NPC's to fill in the roles of (shortage) tanks and healers. Not good. Not good at all. I 'll be honest: I hope you are right, but in the past I didn't see any evidence this story telling would succeed.
If i am wrong,I am wrong
How long do these story telling game catch my attention as long any other rpg game.This what people don't get best rpg have one singular great story Mass Effect,Oblivion,Dragon Age,Fallout,and Fable that draws you in.
Here is what people don't seem to get you can Open world freedom and structured themepark in the same game.Elder Scroll Oblivion did it to perfection.I don't expect Bioware game to be as open world as Oblivion but i think i can live with game being almost linear Main game with a great story and semi open world experiance side game.Nobody question Bioware ability to make good rpg game people question how much of an mmo will be.I think it will be more mmo than most people are giving it credit for.
Bioware is definitely a very talented development house. I loved Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. However, I cannot honestly say that TOR will be the next greatest thing. The class story lines will be phenomenal, of that I am sure, as I have yet to play a Bioware game with a bad story. As far as the rest goes - there just not enough information.
So far, we have heard things that could possibly make TOR an amazing RPG but we have yet to hear anything that will make it an amazing MMO. Besides that, I'm not exactly sold on the stylized art style and the combat. Other than that, it's definitely a game that I will be watching and hoping for.
Man, bold statement. And at first I thought I'd storm in here and write a long rant on why you are wrong, but the more I think about it, the more I agree with you.
But there is still one test. And that is whether the new Star Wars MMO is going to be any good. If these guys can save Star Wars from the hell that was Star Wars Galaxies, then I would be more than happy to crown Bioware as the new Blizzard!
Bioware is definitely a very talented development house. I loved Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. One word TLDNR, I mean the dialogs. They are fine but in the long run they are getting boring. There's way too much speaking for my taste. However, I cannot honestly say that TOR will be the next greatest thing. The class story lines will be phenomenal, of that I am sure, as I have yet to play a Bioware game with a bad story. As far as the rest goes - there just not enough information. So true. So far, we have heard things that could possibly make TOR an amazing RPG but we have yet to hear anything that will make it an amazing MMO. Agree: wait and see. I just hope a great MMO isn't WoW BOP / TIERS / RAID / GRIND copy Besides that, I'm not exactly sold on the stylized art style and the combat. Other than that, it's definitely a game that I will be watching and hoping for. Actually I would have preferred a slower combat than WoW, in which we zerg through mobs like a knife through butter. For the stylized art, not sold either, still do we really have the choice but not buy the game?
That's funny. WoW seems pretty open to me. I can virtually go anywhere and quest whether I go out of order or not. Half the time I quest I don't even pay attention to story. At least until Northrend. But then again, the Lich King lore is pretty epic IMO. Personally I've never felt restricted. Not like I do in Aion and GW anyways.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
I remember that.. I had to grind mobs for my last 2 levels on my Paladin back then. It wasnt fun to say the least.
I played from beta till now and I never grinded on mobs per say you just did a few dungeons to catch up with the slow spots in leveling. It wasn't too bad but it still took over a month to hit max level
It took me about 3 weeks I think. And played pretty hardcore back then. The point was that there was not a huge variety of content at the start and that you pretty much had to do most quests, if you wanted to avoid grinding mobs. If you just soloed, and did not do dungeons, you probably had to fill your bar by finishing up with few mobs.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
They are not the new blizzard until they are able to release game that don't have such immersion breaking mechanic like major memory leak in DA:O or the annoying clipping that occur every now and then in ME:2. Furthermore, you got people complaining that blizzard is nickle and dime by splitting the game into 3 chapter yet so conveniently let out the part where DA:O charges you a whopping 15 dollars right off the bat to add another character to your party group and 10 extra bucks for 30 minutes of extra content.
Say what you may about blizzard, but at least with them you know you will get the most bang out of your buck and you can also rest assure that won't pull that kind of crap at the start of the game. Original wow went for a good 2 years before they come out with another paid expansion pack. In the mean time you see them constantly working to improve and adding new content to that game that you don't have to pony up any extra cash to enjoy the content.
So when you talk about a game company nickle and dimeing their audience, Bioware is a much bigger offender than Blizzard. Hell, can anyone give me an instance where Bioware add anything new content or anything extra to anyone of their games without them trying to suck every penny they can out of their customer? At this point, I think the only other company that are better at giving their customer the most bang for the buck is Valve. Other then those two, pretty much every other company is going to charge you for what little content they added to their game.
If any company is the new Blizzard it is Valve, but even that statement is not correct since the two company while share many similar philosophy in term of design and delivery. They each cater to a different market and their product don't necessary compete with one another.
They are not the new blizzard until they are able to release game that don't have such immersion breaking mechanic like major memory leak in DA:O or the annoying clipping that occur every now and then in ME:2. Furthermore, you got people complaining that blizzard is nickle and dime by splitting the game into 3 chapter yet so conveniently let out the part where DA:O charges you a whopping 15 dollars right off the bat to add another character to your party group and 10 extra bucks for 30 minutes of extra content. Say what you may about blizzard, but at least with them you know you will get the most bang out of your buck and you can also rest assure that won't pull that kind of crap at the start of the game. Original wow went for a good 2 years before they come out with another paid expansion pack. In the mean time you see them constantly working to improve and adding new content to that game that you don't have to pony up any extra cash to enjoy the content.
I'd like to point out that for starters, Biowares extra character for DA:O is free if you buy a new copy of the game and not second hand the same goes for Mass Effect 2 and 2 pieces of free DLC not including blood dragon armour. Also WoW charges $15US or $20Aus a month for an extremely repetitive game. You then must pay for extra discs in the form of the expansions which would add up too more than Biowares games, for a far less engaging story. Time allowances cannot be compared but if you were to take the 90hours plus I've been playing ME2 now with 90hours of WoW (the equivalent of a month for me) I'm getting a lot more out of Mass Effect, at least in my opinion (For other it may be different, its subjective.)
Bang for buck, comparing Blizzard and Bioware, I'd go with Bioware personally.
True, DA:O and Mass Effect have their bugs, though I'm sure they will patch this. However, WoW came out with a large number of bugs upon release as well, as do most new games, so that is not a fair argument in that respect.
i think its down to mass appeal... im not sure bioware has that at the moment - Bioware is very good at doing storylined single player games, whether they can transition that into an MMO environment remains to be seen. The most recent game i have of theirs is Dragon Age:Origins, and, it looks amazing, there is a fairly detailed storyline but, i doubt i even got a dozen hours out of the game, it was, for me at least, boring. which is odd considering i played baldurs gate practically till it wore the disks out... but to get back to the point, is Bioware the new Blizzard, i would say, not even remotely, Blizzard has somehow, managed to make several games that have 'mass appeal' its not just WoW after all, Starcraft too, is one of theirs, and its also something of an icon in game history too...
They are not the new blizzard until they are able to release game that don't have such immersion breaking mechanic like major memory leak in DA:O or the annoying clipping that occur every now and then in ME:2. Furthermore, you got people complaining that blizzard is nickle and dime by splitting the game into 3 chapter yet so conveniently let out the part where DA:O charges you a whopping 15 dollars right off the bat to add another character to your party group and 10 extra bucks for 30 minutes of extra content. Say what you may about blizzard, but at least with them you know you will get the most bang out of your buck and you can also rest assure that won't pull that kind of crap at the start of the game. Original wow went for a good 2 years before they come out with another paid expansion pack. In the mean time you see them constantly working to improve and adding new content to that game that you don't have to pony up any extra cash to enjoy the content.
I'd like to point out that for starters, Biowares extra character for DA:O is free if you buy a new copy of the game and not second hand the same goes for Mass Effect 2 and 2 pieces of free DLC not including blood dragon armour. Also WoW charges $15US or $20Aus a month for an extremely repetitive game. You then must pay for extra discs in the form of the expansions which would add up too more than Biowares games, for a far less engaging story. Time allowances cannot be compared but if you were to take the 90hours plus I've been playing ME2 now with 90hours of WoW (the equivalent of a month for me) I'm getting a lot more out of Mass Effect, at least in my opinion (For other it may be different, its subjective.)
Bang for buck, comparing Blizzard and Bioware, I'd go with Bioware personally.
True, DA:O and Mass Effect have their bugs, though I'm sure they will patch this. However, WoW came out with a large number of bugs upon release as well, as do most new games, so that is not a fair argument in that respect.
Why are you comparing an MMO to a couple of single player games?
Comments
YAHTZEE!
This sucker will be hyped to infinity until release just like the countless other "BESTEST!!1ONe" MMOs out there. The problem is, this game will be just another theme park. Sure, it will draw in players like STO but most will leave after the first month or so. You can't keep making these linear type games and expect longevity.
Give us freedom or give us another game.
Yeah, let's compare TOR numbers to Darkfall numbers at launch, after 3 months, and after 6 months. Hope you take embarrassment well...
YAHTZEE!
This sucker will be hyped to infinity until release just like the countless other "BESTEST!!1ONe" MMOs out there. The problem is, this game will be just another theme park. Sure, it will draw in players like STO but most will leave after the first month or so. You can't keep making these linear type games and expect longevity.
Give us freedom or give us another game.
Yeah, let's compare TOR numbers to Darkfall numbers at launch, after 3 months, and after 6 months. Hope you take embarrassment well...
If you wanna talk percentage wise I'll take that bet. Anyone can jack up a good OP, just look at STO!
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Oh TOR will have those exact same 5 types of quests. It will just be disguised with 10 minutes of dialog before you do it.
It might be a nice distraction for a while, but at some point in time I will need deep and interesting game mechanics to keep me motivated to keep playing. I have yet to be convinced that TOR will be able to provide that.
Haha, go forth, young padiwan, and retrieve 10 gyroscopes from those malfunctioning janitor droids so that we can save the empire!
option1: janitor droids on the loose!? the madness of it all, I will go destroy them at once!
option2: janitor droids on the loose!? i'm not your lackey, i expect to be paid good credits for this!
option3: janitor droids on the loose!? can't someone else do it? no? ah geeze, very well then
Don't get me wrong, I like Bioware games, but I'm not expecting much out of TOR except for a good story, and honestly I hope they allow you to turn off the dialogue, and just read it b/c i read like 10x faster than they can speak...
Yeah, that's why Darkfall completely destroyed WoW.
What, like the way they just had Warcraft and that was RTS?
So Blizzard had no experience in the MMO industry either, other than as players. And look what happened.
Bioware doesn't need experience to crack the market, they just have to be smart. The better question is whether or not they can learn from the examples of all the 'tried and failed' and 'tried and tested' companies that are in and out of the genre.Their RPG games are excellent (IMHO) but an MMO is not a RPG anymore than it is a FPS. Tabula Rasa showed how badly that genre crossover can go.
They have a good IP with Star Wars, but Cryptic can show that the IP is irrelevant to the success of the game. As can LOTRO. It's what you do with it that makes the difference.
Looking for a "WoW Killer" is a waste of time, because it doesn't matter how crap some games are, they'll have their fans to the bitter end. And that's going to be a lot of people in the case of WoW. You could dangle the best thing ever in front of them, and they will still be happy with WoW (like there are people still playing Everquest). How many subs would you have to pull from WoW to "kill" it? 6 million? 10 million?
It would be far more lucrative to create a game that addresses the parts of the market that Blizzard doesn't address with WoW, and I don't mean the 'hardcore' parts, but the parts of the market that are not yet hooked on the MMO format. Redefine the genre, market it to the masses, pull in enough subs and you'll be able to beat that 11 million without even touching the WoW playerbase.
But you have to understand what you're doing before you can do that. Blizzard understood it very well, and that's why WoW was so successful. If Bioware can envision the future in the same way, then we can look forward to great things.
Wait, what?! As far as I can see, the MMO community is just as firmly entrenched in the non-story driven MMOG's as they have always been. Mainly because THERE ARE NO STORY DRIVEN MMOG's right now!
Adding dialog and scripted events is fine. I'm all for that, but I'm not under the delusion that its going to revolutionize the way we play games. I'm excited to see another high quality MMOG coming out. I think it will probably be a great game. But all this hype, and the way people are buying it up, can only lead to one outcome, disappointment.
OK, first of all sorry if some of my comments have already been posted by others, but I don't want to read 14 pages of replies to the OP. Second, everytime I see the OP's avatar, I cringe and think to myself "WTF" is he going to pop off with next that seems almost insane. The only reason I say this is because rather then state something that is objective and well thought out, it is often one-sided and stated as if it was fact.
On one note I do have to concur with him and think Bioware is defnitely a great company and I do think they are doing something "out of the norm wtih SWTOR that might give other companies something to think about... but to say that Bioware is the new Blizzard...I don't think so. What about Blizzard's unnamed MMO that is supposed to be next gen? Blizzard has shown they know how to make a game that the majority likes. They are extremely good at producing a game that has polish. WoW may not be for everyone but it does appease a lot of players. When WoW was released it was the game that offerred tons of features that other various MMOs offerred that were very liked, all combined into one.
Will SWTOR be able to get the kinds of subs that WoW has? Maybe, maybe not. If it happens then congrats to them. I don't think any company is setting their #1 goal to beat out Blizzard and WoW.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Story telling is just window dressing? No at some point every single player realize that WoW has same 5 types of quests which they reuse over and over.Story is what makes care about what you are doing,Good story makes you forgot that you are doing the same 5 quest types over and over.
Honestly the missions in mass effect and dragon age are not very creative but good story enough to ignore the fact that you have been killing the same couple of enemies over and over.Yes gamer today are running through the motions,Aoc was the last game where i cared about the quest,Darkfall was last game where had to read quest.Which is pretty sad.
Bioware needs to do exactly what they are doing and keep their strong story focus.If you can make player care about a story they won't even care that they are grinding mobs.If Bioware DA had quest to kill 100 orcs,WoW had quest to kill 100 orcs,I bet you more people would complain about doing it in WoW.
I hope you're right, but I think you're wrong.
"How long do these story telling games grab your attention ?"
The answer lies in the playing time you devote to them. From 4 weeks to 2 months at the most ...
I know that after the 4th spoken dialogue in AoC, people were doing "push/push/push..." to end the sequence.
Wasn't it Kaplan who said that quests were not supposed to have more than 80 words?
The adventure part is the window dressing in an mmorpg, but the players deliver the active dialogues between themselves, not the NPC's.
And as I type this ... I suddenly see a dark future for SW, as indeed they want to use NPC's to fill in the roles of (shortage) tanks and healers.
Not good. Not good at all. I 'll be honest: I hope you are right, but in the past I didn't see any evidence this story telling would succeed.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
I remember that.. I had to grind mobs for my last 2 levels on my Paladin back then. It wasnt fun to say the least.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
I remember that.. I had to grind mobs for my last 2 levels on my Paladin back then. It wasnt fun to say the least.
I played from beta till now and I never grinded on mobs per say you just did a few dungeons to catch up with the slow spots in leveling. It wasn't too bad but it still took over a month to hit max level
Here's the real question:
How many quests have you done just for the experience points, not because of the gaming experience it provided?
If Bioware has found a way to make quests meaningful and not just something you do because it gives you more experience points per hour than grinding, then I think they win.
LOTRO already did this with their storyline quests. However, the game was 50% fetch/grind quests, 40% grinding, and 10% storyline quests. It took the WoW formula and enriched it, but it did not reinvent the wheel. I expect Bioware to do just that, or fail in mediocrity.
If i am wrong,I am wrong
How long do these story telling game catch my attention as long any other rpg game.This what people don't get best rpg have one singular great story Mass Effect,Oblivion,Dragon Age,Fallout,and Fable that draws you in.
Here is what people don't seem to get you can Open world freedom and structured themepark in the same game.Elder Scroll Oblivion did it to perfection.I don't expect Bioware game to be as open world as Oblivion but i think i can live with game being almost linear Main game with a great story and semi open world experiance side game.Nobody question Bioware ability to make good rpg game people question how much of an mmo will be.I think it will be more mmo than most people are giving it credit for.
Bioware is definitely a very talented development house. I loved Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2. However, I cannot honestly say that TOR will be the next greatest thing. The class story lines will be phenomenal, of that I am sure, as I have yet to play a Bioware game with a bad story. As far as the rest goes - there just not enough information.
So far, we have heard things that could possibly make TOR an amazing RPG but we have yet to hear anything that will make it an amazing MMO. Besides that, I'm not exactly sold on the stylized art style and the combat. Other than that, it's definitely a game that I will be watching and hoping for.
Man, bold statement. And at first I thought I'd storm in here and write a long rant on why you are wrong, but the more I think about it, the more I agree with you.
But there is still one test. And that is whether the new Star Wars MMO is going to be any good. If these guys can save Star Wars from the hell that was Star Wars Galaxies, then I would be more than happy to crown Bioware as the new Blizzard!
TheKartel.com be me home. Booty be my game.
That is after 5 years with changes to content, new starter areas, expansions, the amount of XP you get from quests and mobs, lowered XP requirements, daily quests, XP from battlegrounds, and so on. It did not use to be like that.
In Classic WoW, you pretty much had to do every single quest to get from level 20 to level 60 without having to grind mobs. The other option was spend more time in dungeons every few levels. Original WoW also had a lot less quests as well in comparison to The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King.
I remember that.. I had to grind mobs for my last 2 levels on my Paladin back then. It wasnt fun to say the least.
I played from beta till now and I never grinded on mobs per say you just did a few dungeons to catch up with the slow spots in leveling. It wasn't too bad but it still took over a month to hit max level
It took me about 3 weeks I think. And played pretty hardcore back then. The point was that there was not a huge variety of content at the start and that you pretty much had to do most quests, if you wanted to avoid grinding mobs. If you just soloed, and did not do dungeons, you probably had to fill your bar by finishing up with few mobs.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
They are not the new blizzard until they are able to release game that don't have such immersion breaking mechanic like major memory leak in DA:O or the annoying clipping that occur every now and then in ME:2. Furthermore, you got people complaining that blizzard is nickle and dime by splitting the game into 3 chapter yet so conveniently let out the part where DA:O charges you a whopping 15 dollars right off the bat to add another character to your party group and 10 extra bucks for 30 minutes of extra content.
Say what you may about blizzard, but at least with them you know you will get the most bang out of your buck and you can also rest assure that won't pull that kind of crap at the start of the game. Original wow went for a good 2 years before they come out with another paid expansion pack. In the mean time you see them constantly working to improve and adding new content to that game that you don't have to pony up any extra cash to enjoy the content.
So when you talk about a game company nickle and dimeing their audience, Bioware is a much bigger offender than Blizzard. Hell, can anyone give me an instance where Bioware add anything new content or anything extra to anyone of their games without them trying to suck every penny they can out of their customer? At this point, I think the only other company that are better at giving their customer the most bang for the buck is Valve. Other then those two, pretty much every other company is going to charge you for what little content they added to their game.
If any company is the new Blizzard it is Valve, but even that statement is not correct since the two company while share many similar philosophy in term of design and delivery. They each cater to a different market and their product don't necessary compete with one another.
pointless thread at the moment till ToR releases, in future? maybe yes, and i do think its the only rival mmo that has blizzard worried
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
I'd like to point out that for starters, Biowares extra character for DA:O is free if you buy a new copy of the game and not second hand the same goes for Mass Effect 2 and 2 pieces of free DLC not including blood dragon armour. Also WoW charges $15US or $20Aus a month for an extremely repetitive game. You then must pay for extra discs in the form of the expansions which would add up too more than Biowares games, for a far less engaging story. Time allowances cannot be compared but if you were to take the 90hours plus I've been playing ME2 now with 90hours of WoW (the equivalent of a month for me) I'm getting a lot more out of Mass Effect, at least in my opinion (For other it may be different, its subjective.)
Bang for buck, comparing Blizzard and Bioware, I'd go with Bioware personally.
True, DA:O and Mass Effect have their bugs, though I'm sure they will patch this. However, WoW came out with a large number of bugs upon release as well, as do most new games, so that is not a fair argument in that respect.
Veiled Black, Darkness Incarnate
i think its down to mass appeal... im not sure bioware has that at the moment - Bioware is very good at doing storylined single player games, whether they can transition that into an MMO environment remains to be seen. The most recent game i have of theirs is Dragon Age:Origins, and, it looks amazing, there is a fairly detailed storyline but, i doubt i even got a dozen hours out of the game, it was, for me at least, boring. which is odd considering i played baldurs gate practically till it wore the disks out... but to get back to the point, is Bioware the new Blizzard, i would say, not even remotely, Blizzard has somehow, managed to make several games that have 'mass appeal' its not just WoW after all, Starcraft too, is one of theirs, and its also something of an icon in game history too...
I'd like to point out that for starters, Biowares extra character for DA:O is free if you buy a new copy of the game and not second hand the same goes for Mass Effect 2 and 2 pieces of free DLC not including blood dragon armour. Also WoW charges $15US or $20Aus a month for an extremely repetitive game. You then must pay for extra discs in the form of the expansions which would add up too more than Biowares games, for a far less engaging story. Time allowances cannot be compared but if you were to take the 90hours plus I've been playing ME2 now with 90hours of WoW (the equivalent of a month for me) I'm getting a lot more out of Mass Effect, at least in my opinion (For other it may be different, its subjective.)
Bang for buck, comparing Blizzard and Bioware, I'd go with Bioware personally.
True, DA:O and Mass Effect have their bugs, though I'm sure they will patch this. However, WoW came out with a large number of bugs upon release as well, as do most new games, so that is not a fair argument in that respect.
Why are you comparing an MMO to a couple of single player games?
Both companies have an impressive list of games to their merit.
Blizzard from 1992 to 2010
Bioware from 1996 to 2010
I would still rank Origin Systems higher than either of those companies.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Why would BioWare be the new Blizzard? Can't BioWare just be BioWare and Blizzard be Blizzard?
Oh, I forgot, this is the "my dad is bigger than your dad" MMO forums. Never mind me. ;-)
Turbine > Both
Asheron's Call and LoTRo ftw
Kain_Dale