I think some gamers (like me) want a game that can match classic UO,so far it has not been done. So far we have cocky developers who lie, cheat and steal from gamers delivering trash. They deliver VERY unfinished games knowing that the fanbots will pay them no matter how bad the game is. In so many ways, I blame the fanbots for not having the BALLS to tell game developers we will not pay for trash. If game developers knew that they would not make any cash by lying, cheating, stealing and then handing out trash..... we would have some fantastic games out and some in the making.
We have a long road of crap mmo's ahead of us and I doubt the road will ever end. I do hope that the road being traveled hits a pot hole of a great game being made by some great un-cocky developers who do not need to lie, cheat and steal from gamers who have no balls to make a quick buck.
I don't really understand this. The key developers of UO, and also SWG in Raph Koster's case, have basically flat out admitted they believe a number of the aspects of those games were flawed.
For example Koster wrote a blog post/essay about use based skilling causing a number of behavioral problems in players and that while it looks good on the surface its actually rather silly. This is a conclusion I came to before UO even came out. Sound like a good idea but causes silly behavior. Its not fun and in some ways breaks immersion even worse than a level system. I still prefer a skill based game i jsut do not like use based advancement of skills.
A number of the former devs of these games have come to the conclusion that there were serious flaws in the system. There is a reason these games have not been emulated much. Serious games like EvE addressed some of the major concnerns. Why do you think EvE's skills advance the way they do? Its not because they think use based skilling is awesome and EvE should be just like UO.
There are good reason for some of the directions these devs went in. Its not all about cockiness. I will say they oversteered a good bit into pure DIKU fluff.
But all these people ignoring the issues these games had, issues that have been highlighted and discussed in depth and rationally by former developers. I mean its like some people are whistling past the graveyard and then accusing everyone else of being blind.
Well, I don't really care who feels what about classic UO. I know playing UO from 1997 to 2001 were the greatest times I've ever had playing an online game. So many others feel the same way as I do. There is no way to really describe the old days of classic UO, it rocked in so many different ways for so many. I do support the idea of sandbox MMO's being made, it's just all the BS artists developers we have seen that deliver trash, as I have said. Im sad that some people didn't like classic UO, to me it was the best game ever made to date.
- I am a longtime gamer to whom gaming is very important, and I game a ton of hours per week
- I have no desire whatsoever to compete with other players in a video game
- I prefer a game having instances to not
- I never, ever want to participate in non-consentual pvp
- too much realism in a game can be a bad thing. Lots of things in real life are dull
So, you can have a game with ever-changing loyalties, shifts of power, etc., and I will pay no attention to any of it. I just want to grind out quests, craft nice gear, and solo til the cows come home.
My point is your idea of the perfect game is not mine. Neither is better. So, while I'm happy that there's games to suit all styles, I don't think I'd play in the sandbox you've described.
After checking this game out the last few days all I'll say is no thanks.
Support whatever floats your boat but think I'll skip this one. About the only thing I found impressive is the size of the world.
...and I suppose it gets a first from me as being the first mmo with full frontal nudity that I have played. For whatever that's worth
Wish I would have known that before I made my male toon.
>_>
I suppose they could always use it for advertising:
AoC may have cleavage but we have penis!
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
For brevity, I'm going to respond bullet-style - I am a longtime gamer to whom gaming is very important, and I game a ton of hours per week - I have no desire whatsoever to compete with other players in a video game - I prefer a game having instances to not - I never, ever want to participate in non-consentual pvp - too much realism in a game can be a bad thing. Lots of things in real life are dull
So, you can have a game with ever-changing loyalties, shifts of power, etc., and I will pay no attention to any of it. I just want to grind out quests, craft nice gear, and solo til the cows come home. My point is your idea of the perfect game is not mine. Neither is better. So, while I'm happy that there's games to suit all styles, I don't think I'd play in the sandbox you've described.
Ayup...
I started playing video games in late 70s.
Nowadays it is about having fun for me...not making a job of it.
Nice clear/concise post.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Player created content is nice, but I am more interested in a player driven world. No matter what you do in a mmo, you are competing with other players in some form or another, so long as you share a common goal, and are not on the same team. Waiting in line for mobs to spawn, mining for resources, trying to finish quests, usually so that you can tell others of these accomplishments, or even entering an auction house. Even if you stick to PvE completely, you are still competing with your fellow group mates for loot. The mmo model is based upon competition. If your goal is to stay way from competition with other players, you are probably better off playing a single player console game.
And good for you, that's what you enjoy. But this topic was meant to bring the opinions of those who believe in the ideals of games akin to Mortal Online, and to listen to their views on what went wrong and even more so what potential they see in games without a strictly predetermined and consensually agreeable environment. There are players out there who are enticed by the idea of a game world in which nothing is guaranteed, and being one of them I would like to congregate with others who find it exciting as well. I respect your entitlement to opinion, but can not honestly tell you that you aren't wasting your breath when you speak against my own ideals. There is more than enough room in this genre for the both of us (in fact you have around 90% of it to yourself).
Player created content is nice, but I am more interested in a player driven world. No matter what you do in a mmo, you are competing with other players in some form or another, so long as you share a common goal, and are not on the same team. Waiting in line for mobs to spawn, mining for resources, trying to finish quests, usually so that you can tell others of these accomplishments, or even entering an auction house. Even if you stick to PvE completely, you are still competing with your fellow group mates for loot. The mmo model is based upon competition. If your goal is to stay way from competition with other players, you are probably better off playing a single player console game.
And good for you, that's what you enjoy. But this topic was meant to bring the opinions of those who believe in the ideals of games akin to Mortal Online, and to listen to their views on what went wrong and even more so what potential they see in games without a strictly predetermined and consensually agreeable environment. There are players out there who are enticed by the idea of a game world in which nothing is guaranteed, and being one of them I would like to congregate with others who find it exciting as well. I respect your entitlement to opinion, but can not honestly tell you that you aren't wasting your breath when you speak against my own ideals. There is more than enough room in this genre for the both of us (in fact you have around 90% of it to yourself).
I don't get this response at all...
I'm done trying to talk to you. It's just confusing the hell out of me. I don't know where I insinuated any of this...
Player created content is nice, but I am more interested in a player driven world. No matter what you do in a mmo, you are competing with other players in some form or another, so long as you share a common goal, and are not on the same team. Waiting in line for mobs to spawn, mining for resources, trying to finish quests, usually so that you can tell others of these accomplishments, or even entering an auction house. Even if you stick to PvE completely, you are still competing with your fellow group mates for loot. The mmo model is based upon competition. If your goal is to stay way from competition with other players, you are probably better off playing a single player console game.
And good for you, that's what you enjoy. But this topic was meant to bring the opinions of those who believe in the ideals of games akin to Mortal Online, and to listen to their views on what went wrong and even more so what potential they see in games without a strictly predetermined and consensually agreeable environment. There are players out there who are enticed by the idea of a game world in which nothing is guaranteed, and being one of them I would like to congregate with others who find it exciting as well. I respect your entitlement to opinion, but can not honestly tell you that you aren't wasting your breath when you speak against my own ideals. There is more than enough room in this genre for the both of us (in fact you have around 90% of it to yourself).
- I loathe spawn camping
- I never, ever tell anyone of my accomplishments in a video game. It's meaningless.
- Competing for loot? Perhaps if I was grouped up. I do not care in the slightest what the next player has, as long as the gear I continue to earn/craft is an improvement on what I already have.
- Please, please, please don't tell me to play a console game. I haven't owned one since Intellivision. There's lots of things to like about soloing in an MMO.
- You asked for opinions. Be happy, go find the game you like. I'm not trying to knock down your ideals, I'm just pointing out that what you consider "ideal" in a game is not what I and many others feel.
You seem clear on what you want to see out of future games. That's great. But don't ask for opinions and then get upset that not everyone's is in agreement with your vision.
Johnmatthias, I only meant for the first sentence to respond to you in that last post. As far as everything else from SwampRob, I do want peoples opinions, and that is what I intended this post for. But this post is intended to gain the opinions of the people who are already in agreement that a 'sandbox' or 'open world' or what ever you might call it, is something that they do want to play. It is meant to hear the voices of those who have opinions of what they would like a world akin to Mortal Online (at least the broad spectrum of their FAQ) to be like. I don't assume that you have ever done any of those things when playing an mmo, and I can empathize with what you like. However, you don't like the concept, and I don't desire to enter in to a debate over which style of game play is better, nor am I interested in what kind of game you like to play outside of what Mortal Online fits in to, not in this post at least.
Comments
I don't really understand this. The key developers of UO, and also SWG in Raph Koster's case, have basically flat out admitted they believe a number of the aspects of those games were flawed.
For example Koster wrote a blog post/essay about use based skilling causing a number of behavioral problems in players and that while it looks good on the surface its actually rather silly. This is a conclusion I came to before UO even came out. Sound like a good idea but causes silly behavior. Its not fun and in some ways breaks immersion even worse than a level system. I still prefer a skill based game i jsut do not like use based advancement of skills.
A number of the former devs of these games have come to the conclusion that there were serious flaws in the system. There is a reason these games have not been emulated much. Serious games like EvE addressed some of the major concnerns. Why do you think EvE's skills advance the way they do? Its not because they think use based skilling is awesome and EvE should be just like UO.
There are good reason for some of the directions these devs went in. Its not all about cockiness. I will say they oversteered a good bit into pure DIKU fluff.
But all these people ignoring the issues these games had, issues that have been highlighted and discussed in depth and rationally by former developers. I mean its like some people are whistling past the graveyard and then accusing everyone else of being blind.
Well, I don't really care who feels what about classic UO. I know playing UO from 1997 to 2001 were the greatest times I've ever had playing an online game. So many others feel the same way as I do. There is no way to really describe the old days of classic UO, it rocked in so many different ways for so many. I do support the idea of sandbox MMO's being made, it's just all the BS artists developers we have seen that deliver trash, as I have said. Im sad that some people didn't like classic UO, to me it was the best game ever made to date.
For brevity, I'm going to respond bullet-style
- I am a longtime gamer to whom gaming is very important, and I game a ton of hours per week
- I have no desire whatsoever to compete with other players in a video game
- I prefer a game having instances to not
- I never, ever want to participate in non-consentual pvp
- too much realism in a game can be a bad thing. Lots of things in real life are dull
So, you can have a game with ever-changing loyalties, shifts of power, etc., and I will pay no attention to any of it. I just want to grind out quests, craft nice gear, and solo til the cows come home.
My point is your idea of the perfect game is not mine. Neither is better. So, while I'm happy that there's games to suit all styles, I don't think I'd play in the sandbox you've described.
After checking this game out the last few days all I'll say is no thanks.
Support whatever floats your boat but think I'll skip this one. About the only thing I found impressive is the size of the world.
...and I suppose it gets a first from me as being the first mmo with full frontal nudity that I have played. For whatever that's worth
Wish I would have known that before I made my male toon.
>_>
I suppose they could always use it for advertising:
AoC may have cleavage but we have penis!
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Ayup...
I started playing video games in late 70s.
Nowadays it is about having fun for me...not making a job of it.
Nice clear/concise post.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Player created content is nice, but I am more interested in a player driven world. No matter what you do in a mmo, you are competing with other players in some form or another, so long as you share a common goal, and are not on the same team. Waiting in line for mobs to spawn, mining for resources, trying to finish quests, usually so that you can tell others of these accomplishments, or even entering an auction house. Even if you stick to PvE completely, you are still competing with your fellow group mates for loot. The mmo model is based upon competition. If your goal is to stay way from competition with other players, you are probably better off playing a single player console game.
And good for you, that's what you enjoy. But this topic was meant to bring the opinions of those who believe in the ideals of games akin to Mortal Online, and to listen to their views on what went wrong and even more so what potential they see in games without a strictly predetermined and consensually agreeable environment. There are players out there who are enticed by the idea of a game world in which nothing is guaranteed, and being one of them I would like to congregate with others who find it exciting as well. I respect your entitlement to opinion, but can not honestly tell you that you aren't wasting your breath when you speak against my own ideals. There is more than enough room in this genre for the both of us (in fact you have around 90% of it to yourself).
I don't get this response at all...
I'm done trying to talk to you. It's just confusing the hell out of me. I don't know where I insinuated any of this...
Check out the MUD I'm making!
- I loathe spawn camping
- I never, ever tell anyone of my accomplishments in a video game. It's meaningless.
- Competing for loot? Perhaps if I was grouped up. I do not care in the slightest what the next player has, as long as the gear I continue to earn/craft is an improvement on what I already have.
- Please, please, please don't tell me to play a console game. I haven't owned one since Intellivision. There's lots of things to like about soloing in an MMO.
- You asked for opinions. Be happy, go find the game you like. I'm not trying to knock down your ideals, I'm just pointing out that what you consider "ideal" in a game is not what I and many others feel.
You seem clear on what you want to see out of future games. That's great. But don't ask for opinions and then get upset that not everyone's is in agreement with your vision.
Johnmatthias, I only meant for the first sentence to respond to you in that last post. As far as everything else from SwampRob, I do want peoples opinions, and that is what I intended this post for. But this post is intended to gain the opinions of the people who are already in agreement that a 'sandbox' or 'open world' or what ever you might call it, is something that they do want to play. It is meant to hear the voices of those who have opinions of what they would like a world akin to Mortal Online (at least the broad spectrum of their FAQ) to be like. I don't assume that you have ever done any of those things when playing an mmo, and I can empathize with what you like. However, you don't like the concept, and I don't desire to enter in to a debate over which style of game play is better, nor am I interested in what kind of game you like to play outside of what Mortal Online fits in to, not in this post at least.