Rogue/druid classes that can vanish were in so many games before WoW it is ridiculous, how can you possible think that is original and WoW came up with it??
Name another game before WoW that allowed rogues to VANISH while in combat? Vanishing during mid combat pretty original concept if you asked me. Annoying as F%#& too.
Name another game before WOW that allowed shapeshifting?
Rogue class of insta invisi is the worst class to ever be brought into mmo's. In EVERY game from SWG to City of Heroes, it is the same story. Simplistic, safe easy mode griefing with insta invisi exit from combat. Pop outta invisi, do a high damage combo to pretty much near insta kill someone, then pop back invisi. No, talent and ruins fun of any hopes of a good drawn out combat. How anyone thinks these cheesy unrealistic classes should be in EVERY mmo is just pathetic.
This is why I actually used the words "overpowered" & "imba", as in inbalanced.
I havent claimed that WoW was the first with sneak and/or vanish, but I am quite sure the Rogue class in WoW was the very first handed out with such extreme toolset as the Rogue has. And someone here pointed out correctly here; without it, Rogues would have been nothing. Well, not 100% true, but close. Many Rogues are able to drop down lots of other classes without having to re-stealth.
Well, if someone get hurt by dying in combat (pvp), maybe they are in wrong game or server? Noone forces you to play PvP afaik. This is actually why I never play any clothie class in WoW; cause they are virtually free-kills for any "intentionally-griefing" Rogue.
I guess in the end, it comes to that you either hate the Rogue or love it. Me for instance, have hated the Rogue lots of times, just as many as I have loved it.
1. Inclusiveness - It allows high end and low end systems to run it. It has world PvP, faction PvP, Instanced PvP and Arenas. It has solo content and group content. Instances and raids. Faction grinds and quests. Vanity features and gear grinds. Short of RP it has something for everyone. I'm not saying it is the best available for that particular thing but no other game brings them all together as well. So therefore it is accessible to everyone and that increases the numbers.
2. Casuals - WoW was the first game to cater to the casual player... and it does it well. You can see that from the changes they have made as it has grown. They lowered the amount of time your average instance takes, they lowered the number of people required for raids, the new LFG tool, etc. The truth is most people are not hardcore gamers and don't have time for an MMO that requires 20+ hours a week.
3. Momentum - As more people get into it, more people get brought into it. It feeds itself. They broke the tipping point between losing subs to gaining subs.
There's more to it such as their reputation in the Asian market with Starcraft, releasing a game that doesn't crash much (now), etc. It also helps that it wasn't over-hyped from the start to a mass of millions of MMO gamers. And why not? Because it created many of those gamers. But, I'd say those listed are the big three reasons as I see it.
WoW is successful , IMO, because it does a fairly good job to appease as many play styles as possible.
Casual soloist can log on quest out a level and log off in a relatively short amount of time.
Group players have many 5 man dungeons starting around level 15 all the way up to 80+
Raiders have a lot of content at the cap
Most verities of PVP content from open world to controlled battlegrounds to e-sport style arenas.
The low system requirements to do help as even onboard video chipsets like intel can run the game when they have problems with even most single player games.
The jack-of-all-trades aspect of wow is also its problem for many gamers on these forums. A hardcore raider is going to want all good items to come from raids, A hardcore pvper is going to want everyone to be flagged for pvp with harsher penalties for death and greater benefits for winning. Soloist are going to want everything to be solo-able, and so on. The thing is these players are really niche style players and are not going to be happy with a game that isn't trying to fill their niche
Originally posted by Sovrath th its art design Comes across as a "fun" thing to do for non-gamers
Seriously? WoW's huge player base you are assuming it's for non gamers?
yes i know tons of non gamers that player WoW so they can "hang out" with their loved ones.
People underestimate how many people play wow just to be with other people they know. It is a game that has brought in a lot of people who don't, otherwise, play video games. They will never play another video game.
OP has a very good point about the instant feel of spells. Every other game I've played (and I have played a LOT of MMOs... searching for that special one... that doesn't exist) and WoW's "feel" really beats everything else out there.
There are many things that WoW does extremely well. That is why most WoW clones fail - you can't do WoW better than Blizzard - they have the huge budget, the experienced devs, and a proven track record.
I think Cataclysm might add some necessary depth to WoW. I might pick it up again at that point.
------ Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE Currently - Bored.
Name another game before WOW that allowed shapeshifting?
eq2 on both your questions.
Does EQ2 have 'instant' Vanish like WoW? I have played EQ2, and I remember something like the toon was like fading out over time, not instant vanish? Did EQ2 have Vanish on its release?
I feel I need to talk a little bit more about the Druid:
How many other classes have you seen that can; Heal, Tank, Dps Melee, DPS Ranged, Shapeshift, Instant Fly, Vanish, Stealth, Buff/Debuff, Root & Teleport? I might be missing some points, but I would really like to see a list over another class that offers a bigger diversity than the Druid.
Ofc there are other reasons than those I have listed. These are just some of my personal favorites. What suprises me heere, is that so many says there is so little "solo" content at end level. I guess you who says this, must have done it all then? every instance, achievement, feat of strength and so on? Sorry if I sound rude when I say this:
GET OUT OF YOUR BOX!!
There is more to an MMO than levels. So if the xp were scaled down so you had to go through every single instance to get to level 80 in WoW, would WoW hold enough "solo" content then? You prolly understand what I try to say now. To me, there is certainly enough content for me in WoW to keep me busy for a lifetime. As a soloer.
The content is there. If it does'nt add to your xp bar, it is still to be considered "content". I am happily doing achievements etc, both in WoW & LOTRO, just for the fun from it.
EDIT; Have to say that only the (first) questions regarding the Druid are meant for you SnarlingWolf, not the rest
Originally posted by Sovrath th its art design Comes across as a "fun" thing to do for non-gamers
Seriously? WoW's huge player base you are assuming it's for non gamers?
yes i know tons of non gamers that player WoW so they can "hang out" with their loved ones.
People underestimate how many people play wow just to be with other people they know. It is a game that has brought in a lot of people who don't, otherwise, play video games. They will never play another video game.
yeah its silly that being don't understand this part yet. I know a grandmother who plays WOW so she can play with her nephew and neice. I know a Dad that plays so he can hang out with his daughter and said daughter plays so she can hang out with her boyfriend.
not saying everyone is like that in WOW but there are quite of few non gamers who do.
OP makes good points in his own way. Clearly being new to MMOs, it is cute to see someone fall under the Blizzard spell, but it's with just cause. What he is referring to is production value, and Blizzard has it because they refuse to compromise on quality. The game just plays well, really, really well, regardless what you think of the MMO mechanics, the game just plays, it hums. Much like comparing some crap like Global Agenda to Team Fortress 2, GA is a horrible copy and fails to deliver that smooth production value, whereas Valve nails it with ultra smooth game play that just works. In games, as in life, less is more is usually the best approach.
In addition to its merits, WoW hasn't had any good competition for a very long time. All the recent high-end names have been average at best. Nothing really worthwhile. Any mistakes or design flaws are increasingly harmful when there's already a solid competitor around which players can turn to if the newest game fails in one way or the other. Luckily I think we have lived through the phase of copying the market leader and moved on to games that are finally trying something new and different. Or atleast I hope so.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Also, if WoW was big because of "unique" classes like druids and shamans, why are they some of the least played toons in the game? When I played my druid, there were only a handful of us at cap in a very large, raiding guild. I played years ago, so maybe these utility classes have become much more popular.
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
wow is the most popular because what it does, it does best. You can be causal pvp'er, casual pve'er, hardcore pvp'er or hardcore pve'er. It does it all, and it does it verry well.
Om top of that, the whole warcraft saga makes it so much more legendary
Also, if WoW was big because of "unique" classes like druids and shamans, why are they some of the least played toons in the game? When I played my druid, there were only a handful of us at cap in a very large, raiding guild. I played years ago, so maybe these utility classes have become much more popular.
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Hey Hey HEy, with the Clicker Insults!! Iam a Clicker bud, and I use to kick butt in WoW’s PvP (Yes I said Use to). I cant do what I did back then, because I returned to WoW very late In the X-pac of WoTLK after double hacks, so I had a lot of work to do on gear.
But anyway, back to my point.
I played a RET PALLY in TBC, The Worst PvP Class/Spec in the History of WOW!!!! Ret Pallys were a fing joke in PvP, and I was a casual player, who didn’t get to raid for all the epics and PvE Badge-> to PvP Gear transfer.
I have no real life friends in WoW, so Arena was always against me, since the community looked down appon us as jokes of WoW, and I couldn’t get into a desent team, because I lacked real life friends in WoW who would play arena for fun, nor a High Guild Rank, were people would fear denying me access to Arena teams, or be guild Kicked.
But Still I managed to dominate both PvP and PvE on my ret Pally AS A CLICKER. I had to Pug my way through Arena with people who never PvPed before. Imagine how hard that shit was for me (Mr Clicker), yet I still came through. I remember back then, even beating the shit out of other players who had better gear lvl, and at the same time was a Pally Counter Class.
1. Eh ? Which game doesnt react to button presses ? I dont understand your point.
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
And to that I say 'unfortunately.' But in the next year or so we could see 3 other options pop up. Allods Online isn't bad btw, it isn't perfect but it can be incredibly fun to play. I tried League and didn't like it as much as what I saw in a gameplay video regarding the other factions starting zone.
I don't like the idea that WoW is the only AAA MMORPG out there worth playing right now. I hate LoTR, WAR, and so many others. Blizzard lauching a SciFI MMORPG is wonderful, RED5 going the futuristic military route has me very interested, and SWTOR looks great.
I don't care if millions upon millions keep playing WoW for all eternity, I just want something with the same great quality or better as an alternative for goodness sakes. The next 2 years could be what many have been hoping for, something new. Peanut butter and jelly gets old after 5 years!
P.S. And yes I know you weren't talking to me in your post.
Do not try to be a great gamer, just be a gamer. Cause, I don't care how good you are anyway.
In addition to its merits, WoW hasn't had any good competition for a very long time. All the recent high-end names have been average at best. Nothing really worthwhile. Any mistakes or design flaws are increasingly harmful when there's already a solid competitor around which players can turn to if the newest game fails in one way or the other. Luckily I think we have lived through the phase of copying the market leader and moved on to games that are finally trying something new and different. Or atleast I hope so.
Blizzard doesnt work off Treating Competition.
As we can see from WoW's History, Blizzard always focus on the Big Name games around, even when it is known that they arent close to even becoming any sort of threat.
Examples:
Vanilla WoW =Target= Everquest/EQ2
TBC =Target= GUILD WARS (Yes I said wtf also)
WoTLK = Target= Warhammer (Ok this was the Scariest)
CAT = Target = AION/GW2 and Sandbox Whiners
--------------------------------------------
Come on,,, When has any of these truely been a big threat to WoW? But for some reason, Blizzard goes after their Players each X-pac.
Ever wonder why Blizzard chose to make Arena the main PvP focus? ANd Dont hand me that Battle Net shit!!!! It was because People on the forum mostly refered to GUILD WAR's PvP being better than WoW's PvP. Thats Why they did it. Blizzard wanted to make WoW the perfect game, so they decided to go with GW's format of PvP
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
AND IT FAILED RIGHT IN THEIR FACE!!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Most People in GW dont even like most of the empty Arena play in GW, despite what people say on the WoW forums. And when Blizzard changed it, WOW FANS FLAMED AND ENRAGED!!!!! it Killed WoW's PvP just like Hero Isle is dead in GW.
Also, if WoW was big because of "unique" classes like druids and shamans, why are they some of the least played toons in the game? When I played my druid, there were only a handful of us at cap in a very large, raiding guild. I played years ago, so maybe these utility classes have become much more popular.
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Hey Hey HEy, with the Clicker Insults!! Iam a Clicker bud, and I use to kick butt in WoW’s PvP (Yes I said Use to). I cant do what I did back then, because I returned to WoW very late In the X-pac of WoTLK after double hacks, so I had a lot of work to do on gear.
But anyway, back to my point.
I played a RET PALLY in TBC, The Worst PvP Class/Spec in the History of WOW!!!! Ret Pallys were a fing joke in PvP, and I was a casual player, who didn’t get to raid for all the epics and PvE Badge-> to PvP Gear transfer.
I have no real life friends in WoW, so Arena was always against me, since the community looked down appon us as jokes of WoW, and I couldn’t get into a desent team, because I lacked real life friends in WoW who would play arena for fun, nor a High Guild Rank, were people would fear denying me access to Arena teams, or be guild Kicked.
But Still I managed to dominate both PvP and PvE on my ret Pally AS A CLICKER. I had to Pug my way through Arena with people who never PvPed before. Imagine how hard that shit was for me (Mr Clicker), yet I still came through. I remember back then, even beating the shit out of other players who had better gear lvl, and at the same time was a Pally Counter Class.
/end Clicker Ego rant
I don’t know where I getting at with this
My first toon was Rogue, on Warsong. It was infested with Russian players, so we left. Noone understood what we were saying there lol. I then started to play Druid. If you have been since WoW release, you will know how much they sucked back then. I was persistent though, but still not reaching level 60. even with 2 or 3 Druids. Hehe, maybe it was due to that I not reached L60 with any Druid pre tbc. Well, I gave up the Druids, and started to play (ret) Paladin, pre TBC, just like you, so I do know/remember how it was. Awful. I give you credits for your statements. A well performing ret pally pre tbc, who was a mouseclicker, is so rare & epic he/she should be on a museum
After TBC release, I changed server, again (phew), and rerolled a new Paladin. ret this time too. Huge improvement of the class, and it still on top as I keep my eye on my son who has some real hard kicking ret pally. After WOTLK I also managed to finally get a (new) Druid to level 80 too.
Today, I think it would be close to impossible to play to the top in pvp as a mouseclicker. The only class I think who could do that, from my own experience, would actually be a Holy Pally and a Priest.
.
It amazes me though, that so many here thinks the PvP system in WOW is bad. To me, it was, and still prolly are, one of the best systems I have been into. Not talking world pvp, cause I dont think there is any chance anymore to combine world pvp with Battle Grounds & Arenas unless it is newly released content packed with players exploring it.
I have only been subscribed to World of Warcraft 1 month since January last year (2009). Since that I have been a nomad amongst games. Not as active as I used to be in the early 2000's, but still, a few games here and there. There are so much I miss from WoW. Plain & simple. The WoW ban has not been lifted in my house, but I am sure that I will lift that ban soon. So what makes World of Warcraft so special? That is not easily described with a few words, but I will highlight a few things that I feel is what it makes to be a top game; . 1. It is very 'tight' to play; When you press a button, something happens. Just played Lord of the Rings Online, Anarchy Online & Fallen Earth; last 2 games are actually very exhausting while LOTRO has way to much casting/induction time on actions. I have played lots of MMO's, no other game can give me same feeling when it comes to be in control of my Avatar as I get in WoW. - EVE is equally tight but you do use a mouse and click to move, not necesarily a bad thing, but somthing you don't care for. Also, EVE's menu system isn't for everyone, but I think its perfect for space combat. 2. Top solo content: Only rivalled by LOTRO. - EVE's PVE content is better. Oh, you meant quest content, yep, WOW's is probably the best, though I hear STO is trying hard to give them a run for their money. 3. Flying mounts: How cool isnt that??! - Yeah, those are pretty cool, but flying characters in Aion are pretty nice too. But as others have mentioned, can unbalance a game at lower levels. 4. 3 Different ways to develop your toon: Excellent! This is even something you can reset in case you did not like what you just did. - Yeah, they've gone a long way on this one, and can't say its a bad thing at all. Of course, in EVE I can be everything if I want, so I have fewer limits IMO. 5. Rogues & Druids: These are the most unique classes I have ever seen, whatsoever MMO. Why? They got stealth & ability to vanish in the middle of a fight! Totally imba, at the edge of overpowered if you ask me. But I "dig" it. Alot You are very inpressed by the vanish ability, but the reason most other games don't have it is that its a bad idea in most people's opinon, no class should have an automatic escape once they have been engaged. .Actually, the list could go endlessy on. Still, what I miss most, is the feeling of control when I play my toon. Understandable Sigh... I am about to give in for WoW... There seem to be so few other real alternatives. I wish there were... I guess that's my only question, why aren't you playing WOW, seems like your perfect game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, why doesnt an ex drug addict take drugs? The anwer is complicated. I am born with an extreme winner mentality as well as a super individualist. I like to do things my way alone, or no way at all. When I play WoW, I get so addicted that it sucks out all other focus in my life. Thats why it is a ban in my house on WoW. Which my son suffers under...
EDIT; EvE is definately not my cup of tea. I really dont like being a ship. I find it unpersonal. I also hate 'point & click'. I am appealed by the skill system in EvE though, and when I referred to the 3 talent trees in WoW, I like that solution since that game has classes.
I'm sorry but you sound plain ignorant. To say that WoW has it's popularity and appeal because of it's low required computer specifications is beyond ridiculous and unaquitted. To use that logic would be to deduce that Runescape has the most appeal in the online gaming world and we all know how awful that game really is in almost every factor.
Actually, you're calling him ignorant and uninformed. But there have been many many official statements from Blizzard over the years that actually say this is one of the reasons why their game is so popular and they spend alot of time optimizing code, so it will run cleanly on lower end machines.
Runescape is actually a very good game mechanically. But, there again............ it's been one of the top MMO games in the west for about 10+yrs now. It's second to only WoW. So, why did you even bring that up? To prove yourself wrong? Because that's exactly what you did. Good show.
You didn't even read my post. He spoke as if the only reason WoW is so big and held in such high regard was solely because of the low system specialization. There is no way to defend a claim like that. You are simply proving to be another person who can read something and not even think about the previously made points in a large scale of theory, which is coming to no surprise coming from two people with a likely mindset that a game is popular because of it's low requirements of a computer.
Honestly? How many people have you heard say, "I play WoW because it doesn't take a good computer."? That's moronic. WoW is a game that takes over 60 hours of time investment just to get to up to par with the current metagame and I can't even fathom what kind of person would invest that much time into a game specifically because of the fact that it can run on their horrendous computer. The fact that you state that they are optimizing as if it's some kind of coutner-point is even further hilarity.. what are they supposed to do? Entire graphic overhaul to dissect their customers? Not to mention, I'm fairly certain that there is a requirement heightening in the new expansion.
Furthermore, when I played Runescape, it was an awful game with a terrible interface, eyesore graphics and clunky movement. I feel as if I am correct with my sarcastic statement that "Runescape has the most appeal out of any online game".
I t seems as if everybody on this forum that posts in these "I'm sick of WoW but I need a new game!" don't realize that it's an MMO well-perfected and there's a gigantic reason why there is so much WoW influence in the MMOs that are coming out recently. Do you think that the new Star Wars MMO won't have glaring elements that WoW perfected seething through it? You're kidding yourself if you think so.
Why do I feel as if in a gigantic forum full of nerds, I'm the only one who isn't conforming to some illogical unaquitted hate for a game that must be doing something right if it has held the throne for so long? I have quit and played many MMOs before and since my time with WoW and it's pretty clear what is so good about WoW once you've shopped around. It's a dire shame that there are people who sit around and try to find all these closed-beta and F2P games in hopes of replacing WoW thinking it'll be anything like what they once tasted. Admittedly, the game hasn't generated any real subscribers since 2008 (I read that current subscribers sit at 11.5 million and fluctuated only when WotLK came out) but regardless that is still a huge playerbase.
Rarely do I ever become angered by the opinions of ridiculously arrogant psuedo-intellects on the Internet but you surely are a shining exception.
Edit: I don't have an active subscription to World of Wacraft and haven't for over a year.
why does everything about WoW always end in flame war?? Thats why I quit, too much drama over too little.
WoW to me will always be a bunch of squabbling guilds fighting an imaginary war. I mean come on, the battle is instanced, even if you pwn the horde over 1000 times, your side isn't going to gain an inch of land in the world map.
You can pwn orgrimmar repeatedly 1000 times with your big gang and kill every npc, but as soon as you leave it never happened.
I can see why people like WoW. I can see why people don't like WoW. I don't see why both sides have to attack each other personally. I'm sure there are quite a lot of intelligent people that play WoW, and who don't play WoW.
As far as the rogue being unique I'm a little confused also. DAoC's rogues had vanish long before WoW was being thought of. EQ's rogue and bard's both have an ability to be able to vanish and completely lose aggro. I'm almost positive those abilities were added when PoP went live, which I think was around 2002(Fade and Escape).
Also, I haven't had any problems with my button mashing being immediate in any game. DAoC, in my recollection, was the first game to introduce button mashing for melee(spellcasters have always had button mashing), and it seemed to be immediate.
Comments
Name another game before WoW that allowed rogues to VANISH while in combat? Vanishing during mid combat pretty original concept if you asked me. Annoying as F%#& too.
Name another game before WOW that allowed shapeshifting?
eq2 on both your questions.
This is why I actually used the words "overpowered" & "imba", as in inbalanced.
I havent claimed that WoW was the first with sneak and/or vanish, but I am quite sure the Rogue class in WoW was the very first handed out with such extreme toolset as the Rogue has. And someone here pointed out correctly here; without it, Rogues would have been nothing. Well, not 100% true, but close. Many Rogues are able to drop down lots of other classes without having to re-stealth.
Well, if someone get hurt by dying in combat (pvp), maybe they are in wrong game or server? Noone forces you to play PvP afaik. This is actually why I never play any clothie class in WoW; cause they are virtually free-kills for any "intentionally-griefing" Rogue.
I guess in the end, it comes to that you either hate the Rogue or love it. Me for instance, have hated the Rogue lots of times, just as many as I have loved it.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Seriously? WoW's huge player base you are assuming it's for non gamers?
Can we get this propaganda moved to the WoW forums?
I would say there are 3 major reasons:
1. Inclusiveness - It allows high end and low end systems to run it. It has world PvP, faction PvP, Instanced PvP and Arenas. It has solo content and group content. Instances and raids. Faction grinds and quests. Vanity features and gear grinds. Short of RP it has something for everyone. I'm not saying it is the best available for that particular thing but no other game brings them all together as well. So therefore it is accessible to everyone and that increases the numbers.
2. Casuals - WoW was the first game to cater to the casual player... and it does it well. You can see that from the changes they have made as it has grown. They lowered the amount of time your average instance takes, they lowered the number of people required for raids, the new LFG tool, etc. The truth is most people are not hardcore gamers and don't have time for an MMO that requires 20+ hours a week.
3. Momentum - As more people get into it, more people get brought into it. It feeds itself. They broke the tipping point between losing subs to gaining subs.
There's more to it such as their reputation in the Asian market with Starcraft, releasing a game that doesn't crash much (now), etc. It also helps that it wasn't over-hyped from the start to a mass of millions of MMO gamers. And why not? Because it created many of those gamers. But, I'd say those listed are the big three reasons as I see it.
Seriously? WoW's huge player base you are assuming it's for non gamers?
yes i know tons of non gamers that player WoW so they can "hang out" with their loved ones.
WoW is successful , IMO, because it does a fairly good job to appease as many play styles as possible.
Casual soloist can log on quest out a level and log off in a relatively short amount of time.
Group players have many 5 man dungeons starting around level 15 all the way up to 80+
Raiders have a lot of content at the cap
Most verities of PVP content from open world to controlled battlegrounds to e-sport style arenas.
The low system requirements to do help as even onboard video chipsets like intel can run the game when they have problems with even most single player games.
The jack-of-all-trades aspect of wow is also its problem for many gamers on these forums. A hardcore raider is going to want all good items to come from raids, A hardcore pvper is going to want everyone to be flagged for pvp with harsher penalties for death and greater benefits for winning. Soloist are going to want everything to be solo-able, and so on. The thing is these players are really niche style players and are not going to be happy with a game that isn't trying to fill their niche
Seriously? WoW's huge player base you are assuming it's for non gamers?
yes i know tons of non gamers that player WoW so they can "hang out" with their loved ones.
People underestimate how many people play wow just to be with other people they know. It is a game that has brought in a lot of people who don't, otherwise, play video games. They will never play another video game.
OP has a very good point about the instant feel of spells. Every other game I've played (and I have played a LOT of MMOs... searching for that special one... that doesn't exist) and WoW's "feel" really beats everything else out there.
There are many things that WoW does extremely well. That is why most WoW clones fail - you can't do WoW better than Blizzard - they have the huge budget, the experienced devs, and a proven track record.
I think Cataclysm might add some necessary depth to WoW. I might pick it up again at that point.
------
Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
Currently - Bored.
Name another game before WOW that allowed shapeshifting?
eq2 on both your questions.
Does EQ2 have 'instant' Vanish like WoW? I have played EQ2, and I remember something like the toon was like fading out over time, not instant vanish? Did EQ2 have Vanish on its release?
I feel I need to talk a little bit more about the Druid:
How many other classes have you seen that can; Heal, Tank, Dps Melee, DPS Ranged, Shapeshift, Instant Fly, Vanish, Stealth, Buff/Debuff, Root & Teleport? I might be missing some points, but I would really like to see a list over another class that offers a bigger diversity than the Druid.
Ofc there are other reasons than those I have listed. These are just some of my personal favorites. What suprises me heere, is that so many says there is so little "solo" content at end level. I guess you who says this, must have done it all then? every instance, achievement, feat of strength and so on? Sorry if I sound rude when I say this:
GET OUT OF YOUR BOX!!
There is more to an MMO than levels. So if the xp were scaled down so you had to go through every single instance to get to level 80 in WoW, would WoW hold enough "solo" content then? You prolly understand what I try to say now. To me, there is certainly enough content for me in WoW to keep me busy for a lifetime. As a soloer.
The content is there. If it does'nt add to your xp bar, it is still to be considered "content". I am happily doing achievements etc, both in WoW & LOTRO, just for the fun from it.
EDIT; Have to say that only the (first) questions regarding the Druid are meant for you SnarlingWolf, not the rest
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Seriously? WoW's huge player base you are assuming it's for non gamers?
yes i know tons of non gamers that player WoW so they can "hang out" with their loved ones.
People underestimate how many people play wow just to be with other people they know. It is a game that has brought in a lot of people who don't, otherwise, play video games. They will never play another video game.
yeah its silly that being don't understand this part yet. I know a grandmother who plays WOW so she can play with her nephew and neice. I know a Dad that plays so he can hang out with his daughter and said daughter plays so she can hang out with her boyfriend.
not saying everyone is like that in WOW but there are quite of few non gamers who do.
OP makes good points in his own way. Clearly being new to MMOs, it is cute to see someone fall under the Blizzard spell, but it's with just cause. What he is referring to is production value, and Blizzard has it because they refuse to compromise on quality. The game just plays well, really, really well, regardless what you think of the MMO mechanics, the game just plays, it hums. Much like comparing some crap like Global Agenda to Team Fortress 2, GA is a horrible copy and fails to deliver that smooth production value, whereas Valve nails it with ultra smooth game play that just works. In games, as in life, less is more is usually the best approach.
In addition to its merits, WoW hasn't had any good competition for a very long time. All the recent high-end names have been average at best. Nothing really worthwhile. Any mistakes or design flaws are increasingly harmful when there's already a solid competitor around which players can turn to if the newest game fails in one way or the other. Luckily I think we have lived through the phase of copying the market leader and moved on to games that are finally trying something new and different. Or atleast I hope so.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
wow is the most popular because what it does, it does best. You can be causal pvp'er, casual pve'er, hardcore pvp'er or hardcore pve'er. It does it all, and it does it verry well.
Om top of that, the whole warcraft saga makes it so much more legendary
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Hey Hey HEy, with the Clicker Insults!! Iam a Clicker bud, and I use to kick butt in WoW’s PvP (Yes I said Use to). I cant do what I did back then, because I returned to WoW very late In the X-pac of WoTLK after double hacks, so I had a lot of work to do on gear.
But anyway, back to my point.
I played a RET PALLY in TBC, The Worst PvP Class/Spec in the History of WOW!!!! Ret Pallys were a fing joke in PvP, and I was a casual player, who didn’t get to raid for all the epics and PvE Badge-> to PvP Gear transfer.
I have no real life friends in WoW, so Arena was always against me, since the community looked down appon us as jokes of WoW, and I couldn’t get into a desent team, because I lacked real life friends in WoW who would play arena for fun, nor a High Guild Rank, were people would fear denying me access to Arena teams, or be guild Kicked.
But Still I managed to dominate both PvP and PvE on my ret Pally AS A CLICKER. I had to Pug my way through Arena with people who never PvPed before. Imagine how hard that shit was for me (Mr Clicker), yet I still came through. I remember back then, even beating the shit out of other players who had better gear lvl, and at the same time was a Pally Counter Class.
/end Clicker Ego rant
I don’t know where I getting at with this
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
And to that I say 'unfortunately.' But in the next year or so we could see 3 other options pop up. Allods Online isn't bad btw, it isn't perfect but it can be incredibly fun to play. I tried League and didn't like it as much as what I saw in a gameplay video regarding the other factions starting zone.
I don't like the idea that WoW is the only AAA MMORPG out there worth playing right now. I hate LoTR, WAR, and so many others. Blizzard lauching a SciFI MMORPG is wonderful, RED5 going the futuristic military route has me very interested, and SWTOR looks great.
I don't care if millions upon millions keep playing WoW for all eternity, I just want something with the same great quality or better as an alternative for goodness sakes. The next 2 years could be what many have been hoping for, something new. Peanut butter and jelly gets old after 5 years!
P.S. And yes I know you weren't talking to me in your post.
Do not try to be a great gamer, just be a gamer. Cause, I don't care how good you are anyway.
poster 42:the thing is with keybinding people have to get specific gear to nindeverything or as much as they can on the mouse
i think guild wars is better only 8 button to press thats it the rest its all player skill (if he doesnt run away
anyway limit is too far as kitting goes if your further then 2 meter(7 feet)you should have a 3 second countdown
if you dont bring your self back within range combat is automaticly won by the one that was clossest to the start of the fight!
Blizzard doesnt work off Treating Competition.
As we can see from WoW's History, Blizzard always focus on the Big Name games around, even when it is known that they arent close to even becoming any sort of threat.
Examples:
Vanilla WoW =Target= Everquest/EQ2
TBC =Target= GUILD WARS (Yes I said wtf also)
WoTLK = Target= Warhammer (Ok this was the Scariest)
CAT = Target = AION/GW2 and Sandbox Whiners
--------------------------------------------
Come on,,, When has any of these truely been a big threat to WoW? But for some reason, Blizzard goes after their Players each X-pac.
Ever wonder why Blizzard chose to make Arena the main PvP focus? ANd Dont hand me that Battle Net shit!!!! It was because People on the forum mostly refered to GUILD WAR's PvP being better than WoW's PvP. Thats Why they did it. Blizzard wanted to make WoW the perfect game, so they decided to go with GW's format of PvP
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
AND IT FAILED RIGHT IN THEIR FACE!!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Most People in GW dont even like most of the empty Arena play in GW, despite what people say on the WoW forums. And when Blizzard changed it, WOW FANS FLAMED AND ENRAGED!!!!! it Killed WoW's PvP just like Hero Isle is dead in GW.
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Hey Hey HEy, with the Clicker Insults!! Iam a Clicker bud, and I use to kick butt in WoW’s PvP (Yes I said Use to). I cant do what I did back then, because I returned to WoW very late In the X-pac of WoTLK after double hacks, so I had a lot of work to do on gear.
But anyway, back to my point.
I played a RET PALLY in TBC, The Worst PvP Class/Spec in the History of WOW!!!! Ret Pallys were a fing joke in PvP, and I was a casual player, who didn’t get to raid for all the epics and PvE Badge-> to PvP Gear transfer.
I have no real life friends in WoW, so Arena was always against me, since the community looked down appon us as jokes of WoW, and I couldn’t get into a desent team, because I lacked real life friends in WoW who would play arena for fun, nor a High Guild Rank, were people would fear denying me access to Arena teams, or be guild Kicked.
But Still I managed to dominate both PvP and PvE on my ret Pally AS A CLICKER. I had to Pug my way through Arena with people who never PvPed before. Imagine how hard that shit was for me (Mr Clicker), yet I still came through. I remember back then, even beating the shit out of other players who had better gear lvl, and at the same time was a Pally Counter Class.
/end Clicker Ego rant
I don’t know where I getting at with this
My first toon was Rogue, on Warsong. It was infested with Russian players, so we left. Noone understood what we were saying there lol. I then started to play Druid. If you have been since WoW release, you will know how much they sucked back then. I was persistent though, but still not reaching level 60. even with 2 or 3 Druids. Hehe, maybe it was due to that I not reached L60 with any Druid pre tbc. Well, I gave up the Druids, and started to play (ret) Paladin, pre TBC, just like you, so I do know/remember how it was. Awful. I give you credits for your statements. A well performing ret pally pre tbc, who was a mouseclicker, is so rare & epic he/she should be on a museum
After TBC release, I changed server, again (phew), and rerolled a new Paladin. ret this time too. Huge improvement of the class, and it still on top as I keep my eye on my son who has some real hard kicking ret pally. After WOTLK I also managed to finally get a (new) Druid to level 80 too.
Today, I think it would be close to impossible to play to the top in pvp as a mouseclicker. The only class I think who could do that, from my own experience, would actually be a Holy Pally and a Priest.
.
It amazes me though, that so many here thinks the PvP system in WOW is bad. To me, it was, and still prolly are, one of the best systems I have been into. Not talking world pvp, cause I dont think there is any chance anymore to combine world pvp with Battle Grounds & Arenas unless it is newly released content packed with players exploring it.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, why doesnt an ex drug addict take drugs? The anwer is complicated. I am born with an extreme winner mentality as well as a super individualist. I like to do things my way alone, or no way at all. When I play WoW, I get so addicted that it sucks out all other focus in my life. Thats why it is a ban in my house on WoW. Which my son suffers under...
EDIT; EvE is definately not my cup of tea. I really dont like being a ship. I find it unpersonal. I also hate 'point & click'. I am appealed by the skill system in EvE though, and when I referred to the 3 talent trees in WoW, I like that solution since that game has classes.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'm sorry but you sound plain ignorant. To say that WoW has it's popularity and appeal because of it's low required computer specifications is beyond ridiculous and unaquitted. To use that logic would be to deduce that Runescape has the most appeal in the online gaming world and we all know how awful that game really is in almost every factor.
Actually, you're calling him ignorant and uninformed. But there have been many many official statements from Blizzard over the years that actually say this is one of the reasons why their game is so popular and they spend alot of time optimizing code, so it will run cleanly on lower end machines.
Runescape is actually a very good game mechanically. But, there again............ it's been one of the top MMO games in the west for about 10+yrs now. It's second to only WoW. So, why did you even bring that up? To prove yourself wrong? Because that's exactly what you did. Good show.
You didn't even read my post. He spoke as if the only reason WoW is so big and held in such high regard was solely because of the low system specialization. There is no way to defend a claim like that. You are simply proving to be another person who can read something and not even think about the previously made points in a large scale of theory, which is coming to no surprise coming from two people with a likely mindset that a game is popular because of it's low requirements of a computer.
Honestly? How many people have you heard say, "I play WoW because it doesn't take a good computer."? That's moronic. WoW is a game that takes over 60 hours of time investment just to get to up to par with the current metagame and I can't even fathom what kind of person would invest that much time into a game specifically because of the fact that it can run on their horrendous computer. The fact that you state that they are optimizing as if it's some kind of coutner-point is even further hilarity.. what are they supposed to do? Entire graphic overhaul to dissect their customers? Not to mention, I'm fairly certain that there is a requirement heightening in the new expansion.
Furthermore, when I played Runescape, it was an awful game with a terrible interface, eyesore graphics and clunky movement. I feel as if I am correct with my sarcastic statement that "Runescape has the most appeal out of any online game".
I t seems as if everybody on this forum that posts in these "I'm sick of WoW but I need a new game!" don't realize that it's an MMO well-perfected and there's a gigantic reason why there is so much WoW influence in the MMOs that are coming out recently. Do you think that the new Star Wars MMO won't have glaring elements that WoW perfected seething through it? You're kidding yourself if you think so.
Why do I feel as if in a gigantic forum full of nerds, I'm the only one who isn't conforming to some illogical unaquitted hate for a game that must be doing something right if it has held the throne for so long? I have quit and played many MMOs before and since my time with WoW and it's pretty clear what is so good about WoW once you've shopped around. It's a dire shame that there are people who sit around and try to find all these closed-beta and F2P games in hopes of replacing WoW thinking it'll be anything like what they once tasted. Admittedly, the game hasn't generated any real subscribers since 2008 (I read that current subscribers sit at 11.5 million and fluctuated only when WotLK came out) but regardless that is still a huge playerbase.
Rarely do I ever become angered by the opinions of ridiculously arrogant psuedo-intellects on the Internet but you surely are a shining exception.
Edit: I don't have an active subscription to World of Wacraft and haven't for over a year.
why does everything about WoW always end in flame war?? Thats why I quit, too much drama over too little.
WoW to me will always be a bunch of squabbling guilds fighting an imaginary war. I mean come on, the battle is instanced, even if you pwn the horde over 1000 times, your side isn't going to gain an inch of land in the world map.
You can pwn orgrimmar repeatedly 1000 times with your big gang and kill every npc, but as soon as you leave it never happened.
I can see why people like WoW. I can see why people don't like WoW. I don't see why both sides have to attack each other personally. I'm sure there are quite a lot of intelligent people that play WoW, and who don't play WoW.
As far as the rogue being unique I'm a little confused also. DAoC's rogues had vanish long before WoW was being thought of. EQ's rogue and bard's both have an ability to be able to vanish and completely lose aggro. I'm almost positive those abilities were added when PoP went live, which I think was around 2002(Fade and Escape).
Also, I haven't had any problems with my button mashing being immediate in any game. DAoC, in my recollection, was the first game to introduce button mashing for melee(spellcasters have always had button mashing), and it seemed to be immediate.