I have only been subscribed to World of Warcraft 1 month since January last year (2009). Since that I have been a nomad amongst games. Not as active as I used to be in the early 2000's, but still, a few games here and there. There are so much I miss from WoW. Plain & simple. The WoW ban has not been lifted in my house, but I am sure that I will lift that ban soon. So what makes World of Warcraft so special? That is not easily described with a few words, but I will highlight a few things that I feel is what it makes to be a top game; . 1. It is very 'tight' to play; When you press a button, something happens. Just played Lord of the Rings Online, Anarchy Online & Fallen Earth; last 2 games are actually very exhausting while LOTRO has way to much casting/induction time on actions. I have played lots of MMO's, no other game can give me same feeling when it comes to be in control of my Avatar as I get in WoW. 2. Top solo content: Only rivalled by LOTRO. 3. Flying mounts: How cool isnt that??! 4. 3 Different ways to develop your toon: Excellent! This is even something you can reset in case you did not like what you just did. 5. Rogues & Druids: These are the most unique classes I have ever seen, whatsoever MMO. Why? They got stealth & ability to vanish in the middle of a fight! Totally imba, at the edge of overpowered if you ask me. But I "dig" it. Alot . Actually, the list could go endlessy on. Still, what I miss most, is the feeling of control when I play my toon. Sigh... I am about to give in for WoW... There seem to be so few other real alternatives. I wish there were...
It's a great game, but the community is the worst you will ever see, in anything internet related. Period. That's why I refuse to play it. There's no incentive to group for anything, and even if you do manage to group for end-game raids or dungeons, it WILL be a disaster because World of Warcraft players, ever since 2007, are the equivalent of a drunken toddler in a dryer when it comes to coordination. They are among THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE I have ever had the displeasure of meeting, and if that's not enough to budge, they have a terrible attitude to boot.
It's a good GAME as far as mechanics and fundamentals are concerned. But everything else is just terrible regarding PvP and end-game PvE. Blizzard no longer listens to their community (if they ever did) and now seek only to please the casual side of gaming, much like Nintendo and their Wii. I strongly advise against it. Play Guild Wars instead. It's free, and has a solid community.
Originally posted by chrisel Originally posted by Nizur Also, if WoW was big because of "unique" classes like druids and shamans, why are they some of the least played toons in the game? When I played my druid, there were only a handful of us at cap in a very large, raiding guild. I played years ago, so maybe these utility classes have become much more popular.
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year. First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers. The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time. Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Not sure where the mouseclicker jabs are coming from. I played my druid from near launch to several months after TBC's launch. It was by far my favorite class in WoW precisely because it was a jack-of-all-trades class and had more options.
Back in vanilla WoW there was a lot of open world PvP. Probably half my time was raiding and the other was PvP. I did rather well with my druid in these large battles. I was a bitch to take down, and was very good at keeping team-mates healed up. I have no idea how I compared to other classes since this was before PvP turned into a title and gear chase.
I pretty much stopped PvPing when arenas and battlegrounds came out. It turned into too much of a grind and was no longer fun. I started raiding a lot more and that's what eventually killed my love of the game. It was just a gear grind. Pointless PvP and then pointless raiding.
I still miss the druid class though. Imo, it was the best class in WoW.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
1. It is very 'tight' to play; When you press a button, something happens. Just played Lord of the Rings Online, Anarchy Online & Fallen Earth; last 2 games are actually very exhausting while LOTRO has way to much casting/induction time on actions. I have played lots of MMO's, no other game can give me same feeling when it comes to be in control of my Avatar as I get in WoW. 2. Top solo content: Only rivalled by LOTRO. 3. Flying mounts: How cool isnt that??! 4. 3 Different ways to develop your toon: Excellent! This is even something you can reset in case you did not like what you just did. 5. Rogues & Druids: These are the most unique classes I have ever seen, whatsoever MMO. Why? They got stealth & ability to vanish in the middle of a fight! Totally imba, at the edge of overpowered if you ask me. But I "dig" it. Alot
1) As of every other game 2) Standard solo content (i.e. mostly kill 10 rats and fetch me a wolf claw repeated all the way to 80, with a few exceptions) 3) Pretty much every other game has flying mounts, and games had flying long before WoW (Lineage2, Flyff etc.) 4) Only 3? Lol. SWG and EVE already had thousands of possible combinations when WoW was first released. 5) Assassins and Rogues were present in Ragnarok Online with pretty much the same abilities as WoW rogues (disappear in mid fight, stun & such). You could also hide and stealth in Ultima Online (though it was somewhat more regulated than disappear and then make backflips in front of your foe without him noticing). Druids, well, shapeshifters are not really new. Most games had some degree of shapeshifting, like UO, Runescape or Everquest, although WoW has turned it into a main feature for a class.
Before I expound on the OP's 5 points, I want to make everyone aware of the fact that I love WoW, but I'm also a huge MMO gamer and I currently play whatever I feel like and usually enjoy most AAA games that are out there, with the exception of a few(fallen earth and Aion just suck to me) Currently I'm really enjoying my playtime in Vanguard and Eve.
1. I actually understand exactly what you are saying about the feel of combat, clicking the UI, buttons etc. being spot on, no latency. It is one area that all that extra polish has made sure works. A lot of MMO's could use this as a proving board, especially LOTRO/EQ2/AoC/Vanguard
2. Agree about the top solo Content, although after playing LOTRO, I think they do it a bit better only due to the epic storyline quests.
3. Yep, WoW is where I flew on my first flying mount and it is AWESOME! however, I do know that Vanguard has them and to be honest I would rather fly in Vanguard's scenery than in WoW's.
4. 3 different ways...I wouldnt' describe it that way. If anything the talent system is a bit shallow, as is evidenced by the fact they are completely changing them "AGAIN" for Cataclysm. WoW needs more alternate advancement/horizontal progression to really compare to other MMO's like EQ2 and Vanguard, but Cataclysm might address this issue in part with the path of the Titans. Hopefully.
5. Rogues & Druids: I have to agree with the other posters, if these are the most unique classes you have ever seen, I have to wonder if you played Vanguard or Warhammer at all as those 2 games have some of the coolest classes, I have ever seen. Disciples of Khaine, Blood Mages, Bards, Knight of the Blazing Sun, Psionicists...I can go on. While the druids in WoW are awesome for being a hybrid that does it all, the rogue is a common staple in most RPGs.
Just my thoughts. I'm REALLY enjoying Vanguard right now amazingly. Never thought I would after numerous tries. Something clicked this time. Back I go to my Kojani Blood Mage!
It's a great game, but the community is the worst you will ever see, in anything internet related. Period. That's why I refuse to play it. There's no incentive to group for anything, and even if you do manage to group for end-game raids or dungeons, it WILL be a disaster because World of Warcraft players, ever since 2007, are the equivalent of a drunken toddler in a dryer when it comes to coordination. They are among THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE I have ever had the displeasure of meeting, and if that's not enough to budge, they have a terrible attitude to boot.
It's a good GAME as far as mechanics and fundamentals are concerned. But everything else is just terrible regarding PvP and end-game PvE. Blizzard no longer listens to their community (if they ever did) and now seek only to please the casual side of gaming, much like Nintendo and their Wii. I strongly advise against it. Play Guild Wars instead. It's free, and has a solid community.
Hold your guns there. I have played on lots of games & servers. In WoW I exclusively play on RP/RPPvP servers. So far, I cannot say theres much difference between people there or from someone in for example in LOTRO; same people both places.
There is only one server that I found truly amazing, that shines way above all the rest, and that is the community on RK1, Atlantean server, Anarchy Online. Weirdly enough, RK2, Rimor, has given me the worst experience from a community. I also gound the community in Fallen Earth quite nice for the very short moments I were there at least.
If you dont "like" WoW, and tries to play it, I am sure attitute will somewhat affect behavior. Then you will get bad response from community whatsoever game you play.
If you or anyone else say, that WoW only contain idiots, it would be an outright lame statement. Cause that is absolutely wrong.
2. Agree about the top solo Content, although after playing LOTRO, I think they do it a bit better only due to the epic storyline quests. I agree. LOTRO rivals WoW when it comes to solo content. I forgot about the newly released skirmishes. 4. 3 different ways...I wouldnt' describe it that way. If anything the talent system is a bit shallow, as is evidenced by the fact they are completely changing them "AGAIN" for Cataclysm. WoW needs more alternate advancement/horizontal progression to really compare to other MMO's like EQ2 and Vanguard, but Cataclysm might address this issue in part with the path of the Titans. Hopefully. We can't compare WoW to sandbox MMO's, as someone does here when it comes to character developing. Still, I do find the talent trees very nice & a fun way to customize the toons in WoW. LOTRO's "talents" is beyond comparison here, they are a direct laugh. 5. Rogues & Druids: I have to agree with the other posters, if these are the most unique classes you have ever seen, I have to wonder if you played Vanguard or Warhammer at all as those 2 games have some of the coolest classes, I have ever seen. Disciples of Khaine, Blood Mages, Bards, Knight of the Blazing Sun, Psionicists...I can go on. While the druids in WoW are awesome for being a hybrid that does it all, the rogue is a common staple in most RPGs. I have played WAR, and I actually think it was a DoK as well. Didnt get far into the game, roughly 10-12 or so. Whole game was flat, all toons looked the same. Utter piece of garbage in my eyes really. I had to smile when you say this game have cooler classes than WoW, as I barely found the DoK appealing... Just my thoughts. I'm REALLY enjoying Vanguard right now amazingly. Never thought I would after numerous tries. Something clicked this time. Back I go to my Kojani Blood Mage! Good gaming & happy hunting! Me, will not go back to that game. It was horrible at release. I never looked back, and I never regret it. I don't think it managed to hold me even 1 single level before I logged off...
1. Eh ? Which game doesnt react to button presses ? I dont understand your point.
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
spells did that back in 1999 when i played everquest.
Quick answer to the question "What other game has a class that can instantly vanish?"
How about DAOC, any of the melee stealth classes can get a skill called "Vanish" that allows the player to instantly vanish in the middle of a battle. Also if i remember right, im pretty sure that I saw a bard vanish in the middle of a fight in Vanguard.
WoW has far from unique classes, pretty cookie cutter if I would say.
Also any game that I have played has pretty damn quick response time for your character to react to a skill that you pressed. The majority of games have that issue within the 1st month or 2 of release but after that, I cant think of a game that didnt feel instantaneous.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
1. Eh ? Which game doesnt react to button presses ? I dont understand your point.
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
Basically disproving every single bit of your crappy OP does not make him a wow hater it just makes you look stupid because he is right. Wow invented nothing not even the character models (stolen from Games workshop Warhammer figurines). Wow just fused all the things it stole to a smooth polished package that every computer could run and every retard be successful playing
1. Eh ? Which game doesnt react to button presses ? I dont understand your point.
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
Basically disproving every single bit of your crappy OP does not make him a wow hater it just makes you look stupid because he is right. Wow invented nothing not even the character models (stolen from Games workshop Warhammer figurines). Wow just fused all the things it stole to a smooth polished package that every computer could run and every retard be successful playing
Why such an agressive tone? Have I done anything against you that deserves this approach from you?
You really need to learn the difference between "proof" & "peronal feelings".
Whatever you say, World of Warcraft has the most smoothest & tightest toon control of all MMO's I have ever played. I see no way they can improve that. To me, that exact part, is perfect. It is perfection taken to the extreme.
1. Eh ? Which game doesnt react to button presses ? I dont understand your point.
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
Basically disproving every single bit of your crappy OP does not make him a wow hater it just makes you look stupid because he is right. Wow invented nothing not even the character models (stolen from Games workshop Warhammer figurines). Wow just fused all the things it stole to a smooth polished package that every computer could run and every retard be successful playing
Why such an agressive tone? Have I done anything against you that deserves this approach from you?
You really need to learn the difference between "proof" & "peronal feelings".
Whatever you say, World of Warcraft has the most smoothest & tightest toon control of all MMO's I have ever played. I see no way they can improve that. To me, that exact part, is perfect. It is perfection taken to the extreme.
I definitely agree that wow has one of the best feels to any game out there. Compare it to warhammer online for example and you'll notice just how much more fluid wow feels. WAR is just super clunky and stuttery and it's why the game fails, in my opinion.
I just started playing Darkfall and it is actually just about as smooth as WoW which is great to see. It's rare to find games feeling polished like this these days.
Rogue/druid classes that can vanish were in so many games before WoW it is ridiculous, how can you possible think that is original and WoW came up with it??
Name another game before WoW that allowed rogues to VANISH while in combat? Vanishing during mid combat pretty original concept if you asked me. Annoying as F%#& too.
Name another game before WOW that allowed shapeshifting?
Jedi in SWG...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW's smooth and fluid animation & action response is sorta unmatched in MMO's. In that regard it is fun, and very well designed. Compare it to a recent big title, say, WAR, there is absolutely no comparison. One of the biggest complaints were how there was lag & global cooldowns in between actions. You don't have to like a game to admit that WoW has grade A character animation and smooth, fluid action gameplay.
WoW is the most popular MMO basically because of
1. Accessibility - Light on computer systems, people of all ages can jump in and have fun without spending 2 hours tweaking video settings to make the game run "well". Content ingame is also very accessible, without the tedium that older/other MMO's have. Accessibility is important because people are paying $15 to play a game, not to waste time tweaking their computers, or be blocked from accessing 50% of an expansion content because some older MMO's find it fun to cater to 1% of the playerbase. There's also content for the solo, group, and raid players. On top of that, there's both PvE and PvP content for all these playstyles. I'm in favor of a bit of everything in my MMO's, and this game gives you pretty much a bit of everything.
2. Popular IP, popular company - Warcraft was a popular name way before WoW was even launched. Blizzard, I don't even need to say much here. Blizzard has always been known as a good, quality gaming company that's capable of creating fun & quality games. Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft, man I spent so much time playing these games when I was a teenager.
3. Active game development - In case people haven't noticed, there is an active story going ingame, which is always cool. The game also receives content patches in between expansions, something many MMO's still don't do these days.
4. Marketing - You can't sell your product without proper advertisement. Relying on viral marketing (trademark of SOE) is old school. It doesn't matter if you like WoW's commercials or not, it's active marketing, something players of other games wish their gaming companies would do.
5. Active playerbase - People come to play MMO's generally to know there are tons of other players playing. If you like to play with or against other players in MMO's, you will find plenty of players here. It's sad playing some other games and seeing ghost towns. There are games you would love to play. But having a small playerbase can make a MMO not as fun as it can be.
It sounds like you like the game a lot. I can't really quibble with your post (although a lot of it is just preference on your part) but this statement caught my eye. Originally posted by chrisel
5. Rogues & Druids: These are the most unique classes I have ever seen, whatsoever MMO. Why? They got stealth & ability to vanish in the middle of a fight! Totally imba, at the edge of overpowered if you ask me. But I "dig" it. Alot
Really?
The most unique classes you have ever seen? I don't think you have played that many games then. The druid has a more unique feel to it due to the shapechange ability and class morph ideal in the class but still it is not that unique. The rogue? Unique, really? I think almost every game has a roguish type class and they almost have stealth of some sort. I think the Vanish ability has skewed your thinking a bit. And just for the record, my most unique class I have ever played was a Mesmer from guild wars.
Guild Wars? Is that even considered an MMO? Not by me, not by the company. Only by MMORPG, which is a mystery to me...
And yes, I find the Rogue very unique. I have played Burglar in f.ex LOTRO, Agent in AO etc, no other class comes to close as the Rogue in WoW. Let me add that I find the Rogue 2nd to the Druid though. Druid is an extremely powerful class, being able to fill absolutely all roles in the "Holy Trinity" of Healer, Tank & DPS (both melee & ranged!).
I must dissagree on this, other than the Wow rogue can solo, it is a copy and paste of the rogue from EQ1 with very minor differences
WoW's smooth and fluid animation & action response is sorta unmatched in MMO's. In that regard it is fun, and very well designed. Compare it to a recent big title, say, WAR, there is absolutely no comparison. One of the biggest complaints were how there was lag & global cooldowns in between actions. You don't have to like a game to admit that WoW has grade A character animation and smooth, fluid action gameplay.
WoW is the most popular MMO basically because of
1. Accessibility - Light on computer systems, people of all ages can jump in and have fun without spending 2 hours tweaking video settings to make the game run "well". Content ingame is also very accessible, without the tedium that older/other MMO's have. Accessibility is important because people are paying $15 to play a game, not to waste time tweaking their computers, or be blocked from accessing 50% of an expansion content because some older MMO's find it fun to cater to 1% of the playerbase. There's also content for the solo, group, and raid players. On top of that, there's both PvE and PvP content for all these playstyles. I'm in favor of a bit of everything in my MMO's, and this game gives you pretty much a bit of everything.
2. Popular IP, popular company - Warcraft was a popular name way before WoW was even launched. Blizzard, I don't even need to say much here. Blizzard has always been known as a good, quality gaming company that's capable of creating fun & quality games. Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft, man I spent so much time playing these games when I was a teenager.
3. Active game development - In case people haven't noticed, there is an active story going ingame, which is always cool. The game also receives content patches in between expansions, something many MMO's still don't do these days.
4. Marketing - You can't sell your product without proper advertisement. Relying on viral marketing (trademark of SOE) is old school. It doesn't matter if you like WoW's commercials or not, it's active marketing, something players of other games wish their gaming companies would do.
5. Active playerbase - People come to play MMO's generally to know there are tons of other players playing. If you like to play with or against other players in MMO's, you will find plenty of players here. It's sad playing some other games and seeing ghost towns. There are games you would love to play. But having a small playerbase can make a MMO not as fun as it can be.
Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself ..
These forums reek of elitism when it comes to MMOs, I must say. In many ways this is like a discussion you see on movie forums, literature forums etc., just change WoW to a blockbuster or New York Times bestseller and you will find a number of similar threads. Certainly you can say that there's more in movies of Sergei Eisenstein than there is on that latest romcom or more to swallow on Imre Kertesz than Dan Brown, but you will never beat that feeling of instant gratification these "lesser" forms of art provide you. Defending the appeal of WoW in here is like defending Valentine's Day (the movie) at a cultural soirée downtown; futile and mostly pointless.
WoW's smooth and fluid animation & action response is sorta unmatched in MMO's. In that regard it is fun, and very well designed. Compare it to a recent big title, say, WAR, there is absolutely no comparison. One of the biggest complaints were how there was lag & global cooldowns in between actions. You don't have to like a game to admit that WoW has grade A character animation and smooth, fluid action gameplay.
WoW is the most popular MMO basically because of
1. Accessibility - Light on computer systems, people of all ages can jump in and have fun without spending 2 hours tweaking video settings to make the game run "well". Content ingame is also very accessible, without the tedium that older/other MMO's have. Accessibility is important because people are paying $15 to play a game, not to waste time tweaking their computers, or be blocked from accessing 50% of an expansion content because some older MMO's find it fun to cater to 1% of the playerbase. There's also content for the solo, group, and raid players. On top of that, there's both PvE and PvP content for all these playstyles. I'm in favor of a bit of everything in my MMO's, and this game gives you pretty much a bit of everything.
2. Popular IP, popular company - Warcraft was a popular name way before WoW was even launched. Blizzard, I don't even need to say much here. Blizzard has always been known as a good, quality gaming company that's capable of creating fun & quality games. Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft, man I spent so much time playing these games when I was a teenager.
3. Active game development - In case people haven't noticed, there is an active story going ingame, which is always cool. The game also receives content patches in between expansions, something many MMO's still don't do these days.
4. Marketing - You can't sell your product without proper advertisement. Relying on viral marketing (trademark of SOE) is old school. It doesn't matter if you like WoW's commercials or not, it's active marketing, something players of other games wish their gaming companies would do.
5. Active playerbase - People come to play MMO's generally to know there are tons of other players playing. If you like to play with or against other players in MMO's, you will find plenty of players here. It's sad playing some other games and seeing ghost towns. There are games you would love to play. But having a small playerbase can make a MMO not as fun as it can be.
Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself ..
At the same time there have been other games that have had all or a decent combination of those 5 factors (and some more) that have not found the success that wow has.
Gameplay is perhaps the biggest factor. A game can be all of the above, but still not retain players, because the gameplay isn't engaging.
. When you press a button, something happens. Top solo content,Flying mounts, 3 Different ways to develop your toon:Excellent! Rogues & Druids: These are the most unique classes I have ever seen, whatsoever MMO. Why? They got stealth & ability to vanish in the middle of a fight!
4. 3 different ways...I wouldnt' describe it that way. If anything the talent system is a bit shallow, as is evidenced by the fact they are completely changing them "AGAIN" for Cataclysm. WoW needs more alternate advancement/horizontal progression to really compare to other MMO's like EQ2 and Vanguard, but Cataclysm might address this issue in part with the path of the Titans. Hopefully.
I agreed with everything you said except this.
Alternate advancement as it is done in EQ/EQ2 is horrible in my opinion. It is nothing more than removing class abilities and making players grind psuedo mini levels after they have reached max level to regain them. That is all AA points are; forcing players to fill up more empty experience bars.
There is such a thing as to much and between AA, Mythical/Fabled, Tier armor, Master spells, etc etc it just becomes to much grind and not real customization. That isn't customization as much as it is raising the barrier to entry for no reason other than requiring more time investment.
The current blizzard talent system is really good, because it gives each class several very distinct playstyle changes which is the goal. The new changes coming up will hopefully remove the need for many mandatory choices in the tree and allow even more customization within each tree between players.
WoW doesn't do anything special, it just conjures the same fuzzy feeling that EQ and UO gave to people when it was their first game too. The majority of WoW players are new inductees to the market, of course it's the best game ever to these people - it took their virginity for Christ's sake.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
WoW doesn't do anything special, it just conjures the same fuzzy feeling that EQ and UO gave to people when it was their first game too. The majority of WoW players are new inductees to the market, of course it's the best game ever to these people - it took their virginity for Christ's sake.
So anyone with prior mmo experience to wow is just living off nostalgia.
Anyone without prior mmo experience doesn't know any better.
That is certainly one way to tailor support for your opinions I guess.
People are sheep that not only like to be told what to do but be taken by the hand and led to the objective. That is why WOW is popular. There are more non gamers in the world than gamers, what Blizzard did was figure out how to suck them into the hobby and keep them playing. Fast and easy gratification is the formula. The game has become easier with each patch and xpac and shows no signs of letting up anytime soon.
So anyone with prior mmo experience to wow is just living off nostalgia. Anyone without prior mmo experience doesn't know any better.
That is certainly one way to tailor support for your opinions I guess.
If what you said doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm not gonna bother convincing ya. It's quite evident that nostalgia keeps people from enjoying newer games, and WoW players that haven't tried anything else yet simply don't know any better.
It's obvious, at least to the vast majority that have been stating this fact for the better part of a few years now.
Is there not a hoard of people looking for a replacement for UO/EQ?
Is there not a hoard of people that keep going back to WoW since it was the first, and best one they *have* tried?
Both points reflect perception altering amounts of nostalgic idiocy.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Comments
It's a great game, but the community is the worst you will ever see, in anything internet related. Period. That's why I refuse to play it. There's no incentive to group for anything, and even if you do manage to group for end-game raids or dungeons, it WILL be a disaster because World of Warcraft players, ever since 2007, are the equivalent of a drunken toddler in a dryer when it comes to coordination. They are among THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE I have ever had the displeasure of meeting, and if that's not enough to budge, they have a terrible attitude to boot.
It's a good GAME as far as mechanics and fundamentals are concerned. But everything else is just terrible regarding PvP and end-game PvE. Blizzard no longer listens to their community (if they ever did) and now seek only to please the casual side of gaming, much like Nintendo and their Wii. I strongly advise against it. Play Guild Wars instead. It's free, and has a solid community.
I will try to answer this when it comes to the Druid, even though I havent been much active last year.
First of all, the Druid is undoubtly the most complex class I have ever played. Not talking raid, as any mouseclicker can do that. To be successful as a Druid (pvp), you need to learn the whole toolset, and here a mouseclicker would suffer severely. I reckon myself a very good keybinder, holding roughly 40 different keybindings when I play WoW, not using mouse on any skill. Only fingers.
The Druid has 3 'basic' forms to use in combat, and every form has unique set of skills. In the end, this can become overwhelming. I find myself really good to find new keybindings, but last time I played my Druid, I actually began to find me in short of (good) alternatives to all the new skills added over time.
Druid is probably a class that appeals to the very few, just for these reasons. I am a (huge) fan of Druid, but I am thinking me twice before I play one again due to the increased complexity of this class. For those who can get through these "obstacles", the class will be very rewarding though.
Not sure where the mouseclicker jabs are coming from. I played my druid from near launch to several months after TBC's launch. It was by far my favorite class in WoW precisely because it was a jack-of-all-trades class and had more options.
Back in vanilla WoW there was a lot of open world PvP. Probably half my time was raiding and the other was PvP. I did rather well with my druid in these large battles. I was a bitch to take down, and was very good at keeping team-mates healed up. I have no idea how I compared to other classes since this was before PvP turned into a title and gear chase.
I pretty much stopped PvPing when arenas and battlegrounds came out. It turned into too much of a grind and was no longer fun. I started raiding a lot more and that's what eventually killed my love of the game. It was just a gear grind. Pointless PvP and then pointless raiding.
I still miss the druid class though. Imo, it was the best class in WoW.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
1) As of every other game
2) Standard solo content (i.e. mostly kill 10 rats and fetch me a wolf claw repeated all the way to 80, with a few exceptions)
3) Pretty much every other game has flying mounts, and games had flying long before WoW (Lineage2, Flyff etc.)
4) Only 3? Lol. SWG and EVE already had thousands of possible combinations when WoW was first released.
5) Assassins and Rogues were present in Ragnarok Online with pretty much the same abilities as WoW rogues (disappear in mid fight, stun & such). You could also hide and stealth in Ultima Online (though it was somewhat more regulated than disappear and then make backflips in front of your foe without him noticing).
Druids, well, shapeshifters are not really new. Most games had some degree of shapeshifting, like UO, Runescape or Everquest, although WoW has turned it into a main feature for a class.
Before I expound on the OP's 5 points, I want to make everyone aware of the fact that I love WoW, but I'm also a huge MMO gamer and I currently play whatever I feel like and usually enjoy most AAA games that are out there, with the exception of a few(fallen earth and Aion just suck to me) Currently I'm really enjoying my playtime in Vanguard and Eve.
1. I actually understand exactly what you are saying about the feel of combat, clicking the UI, buttons etc. being spot on, no latency. It is one area that all that extra polish has made sure works. A lot of MMO's could use this as a proving board, especially LOTRO/EQ2/AoC/Vanguard
2. Agree about the top solo Content, although after playing LOTRO, I think they do it a bit better only due to the epic storyline quests.
3. Yep, WoW is where I flew on my first flying mount and it is AWESOME! however, I do know that Vanguard has them and to be honest I would rather fly in Vanguard's scenery than in WoW's.
4. 3 different ways...I wouldnt' describe it that way. If anything the talent system is a bit shallow, as is evidenced by the fact they are completely changing them "AGAIN" for Cataclysm. WoW needs more alternate advancement/horizontal progression to really compare to other MMO's like EQ2 and Vanguard, but Cataclysm might address this issue in part with the path of the Titans. Hopefully.
5. Rogues & Druids: I have to agree with the other posters, if these are the most unique classes you have ever seen, I have to wonder if you played Vanguard or Warhammer at all as those 2 games have some of the coolest classes, I have ever seen. Disciples of Khaine, Blood Mages, Bards, Knight of the Blazing Sun, Psionicists...I can go on. While the druids in WoW are awesome for being a hybrid that does it all, the rogue is a common staple in most RPGs.
Just my thoughts. I'm REALLY enjoying Vanguard right now amazingly. Never thought I would after numerous tries. Something clicked this time. Back I go to my Kojani Blood Mage!
Please stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks.
Fortune favours the bold.
It's a great game, but the community is the worst you will ever see, in anything internet related. Period. That's why I refuse to play it. There's no incentive to group for anything, and even if you do manage to group for end-game raids or dungeons, it WILL be a disaster because World of Warcraft players, ever since 2007, are the equivalent of a drunken toddler in a dryer when it comes to coordination. They are among THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE I have ever had the displeasure of meeting, and if that's not enough to budge, they have a terrible attitude to boot.
It's a good GAME as far as mechanics and fundamentals are concerned. But everything else is just terrible regarding PvP and end-game PvE. Blizzard no longer listens to their community (if they ever did) and now seek only to please the casual side of gaming, much like Nintendo and their Wii. I strongly advise against it. Play Guild Wars instead. It's free, and has a solid community.
Hold your guns there. I have played on lots of games & servers. In WoW I exclusively play on RP/RPPvP servers. So far, I cannot say theres much difference between people there or from someone in for example in LOTRO; same people both places.
There is only one server that I found truly amazing, that shines way above all the rest, and that is the community on RK1, Atlantean server, Anarchy Online. Weirdly enough, RK2, Rimor, has given me the worst experience from a community. I also gound the community in Fallen Earth quite nice for the very short moments I were there at least.
If you dont "like" WoW, and tries to play it, I am sure attitute will somewhat affect behavior. Then you will get bad response from community whatsoever game you play.
If you or anyone else say, that WoW only contain idiots, it would be an outright lame statement. Cause that is absolutely wrong.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
spells did that back in 1999 when i played everquest.
Quick answer to the question "What other game has a class that can instantly vanish?"
How about DAOC, any of the melee stealth classes can get a skill called "Vanish" that allows the player to instantly vanish in the middle of a battle. Also if i remember right, im pretty sure that I saw a bard vanish in the middle of a fight in Vanguard.
WoW has far from unique classes, pretty cookie cutter if I would say.
Also any game that I have played has pretty damn quick response time for your character to react to a skill that you pressed. The majority of games have that issue within the 1st month or 2 of release but after that, I cant think of a game that didnt feel instantaneous.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
Basically disproving every single bit of your crappy OP does not make him a wow hater it just makes you look stupid because he is right. Wow invented nothing not even the character models (stolen from Games workshop Warhammer figurines). Wow just fused all the things it stole to a smooth polished package that every computer could run and every retard be successful playing
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
Basically disproving every single bit of your crappy OP does not make him a wow hater it just makes you look stupid because he is right. Wow invented nothing not even the character models (stolen from Games workshop Warhammer figurines). Wow just fused all the things it stole to a smooth polished package that every computer could run and every retard be successful playing
Why such an agressive tone? Have I done anything against you that deserves this approach from you?
You really need to learn the difference between "proof" & "peronal feelings".
Whatever you say, World of Warcraft has the most smoothest & tightest toon control of all MMO's I have ever played. I see no way they can improve that. To me, that exact part, is perfect. It is perfection taken to the extreme.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Then you havent played many MMO's... Hard to explain my point to someone who is unexperienced when it comes to playing lots of MMO's. I might be wrong here, but then last option I see for you, is that you must be a mouseclicker then.
However, these are my personal views. You seem to just be another WoW basher who denies the fact that WoW is the best game around for the most of us.
Basically disproving every single bit of your crappy OP does not make him a wow hater it just makes you look stupid because he is right. Wow invented nothing not even the character models (stolen from Games workshop Warhammer figurines). Wow just fused all the things it stole to a smooth polished package that every computer could run and every retard be successful playing
Why such an agressive tone? Have I done anything against you that deserves this approach from you?
You really need to learn the difference between "proof" & "peronal feelings".
Whatever you say, World of Warcraft has the most smoothest & tightest toon control of all MMO's I have ever played. I see no way they can improve that. To me, that exact part, is perfect. It is perfection taken to the extreme.
I definitely agree that wow has one of the best feels to any game out there. Compare it to warhammer online for example and you'll notice just how much more fluid wow feels. WAR is just super clunky and stuttery and it's why the game fails, in my opinion.
I just started playing Darkfall and it is actually just about as smooth as WoW which is great to see. It's rare to find games feeling polished like this these days.
Name another game before WoW that allowed rogues to VANISH while in combat? Vanishing during mid combat pretty original concept if you asked me. Annoying as F%#& too.
Name another game before WOW that allowed shapeshifting?
Jedi in SWG...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I do agree that WoW has great controls, very fluid movement even if it lacks in realism (ie superhero jumping, no collision detection).
WoW's smooth and fluid animation & action response is sorta unmatched in MMO's. In that regard it is fun, and very well designed. Compare it to a recent big title, say, WAR, there is absolutely no comparison. One of the biggest complaints were how there was lag & global cooldowns in between actions. You don't have to like a game to admit that WoW has grade A character animation and smooth, fluid action gameplay.
WoW is the most popular MMO basically because of
1. Accessibility - Light on computer systems, people of all ages can jump in and have fun without spending 2 hours tweaking video settings to make the game run "well". Content ingame is also very accessible, without the tedium that older/other MMO's have. Accessibility is important because people are paying $15 to play a game, not to waste time tweaking their computers, or be blocked from accessing 50% of an expansion content because some older MMO's find it fun to cater to 1% of the playerbase. There's also content for the solo, group, and raid players. On top of that, there's both PvE and PvP content for all these playstyles. I'm in favor of a bit of everything in my MMO's, and this game gives you pretty much a bit of everything.
2. Popular IP, popular company - Warcraft was a popular name way before WoW was even launched. Blizzard, I don't even need to say much here. Blizzard has always been known as a good, quality gaming company that's capable of creating fun & quality games. Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft, man I spent so much time playing these games when I was a teenager.
3. Active game development - In case people haven't noticed, there is an active story going ingame, which is always cool. The game also receives content patches in between expansions, something many MMO's still don't do these days.
4. Marketing - You can't sell your product without proper advertisement. Relying on viral marketing (trademark of SOE) is old school. It doesn't matter if you like WoW's commercials or not, it's active marketing, something players of other games wish their gaming companies would do.
5. Active playerbase - People come to play MMO's generally to know there are tons of other players playing. If you like to play with or against other players in MMO's, you will find plenty of players here. It's sad playing some other games and seeing ghost towns. There are games you would love to play. But having a small playerbase can make a MMO not as fun as it can be.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Really?
The most unique classes you have ever seen? I don't think you have played that many games then. The druid has a more unique feel to it due to the shapechange ability and class morph ideal in the class but still it is not that unique. The rogue? Unique, really? I think almost every game has a roguish type class and they almost have stealth of some sort. I think the Vanish ability has skewed your thinking a bit. And just for the record, my most unique class I have ever played was a Mesmer from guild wars.
Guild Wars? Is that even considered an MMO? Not by me, not by the company. Only by MMORPG, which is a mystery to me...
And yes, I find the Rogue very unique. I have played Burglar in f.ex LOTRO, Agent in AO etc, no other class comes to close as the Rogue in WoW. Let me add that I find the Rogue 2nd to the Druid though. Druid is an extremely powerful class, being able to fill absolutely all roles in the "Holy Trinity" of Healer, Tank & DPS (both melee & ranged!).
I must dissagree on this, other than the Wow rogue can solo, it is a copy and paste of the rogue from EQ1 with very minor differences
Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself ..
These forums reek of elitism when it comes to MMOs, I must say. In many ways this is like a discussion you see on movie forums, literature forums etc., just change WoW to a blockbuster or New York Times bestseller and you will find a number of similar threads. Certainly you can say that there's more in movies of Sergei Eisenstein than there is on that latest romcom or more to swallow on Imre Kertesz than Dan Brown, but you will never beat that feeling of instant gratification these "lesser" forms of art provide you. Defending the appeal of WoW in here is like defending Valentine's Day (the movie) at a cultural soirée downtown; futile and mostly pointless.
Excellent post. Couldn't have said it better myself ..
At the same time there have been other games that have had all or a decent combination of those 5 factors (and some more) that have not found the success that wow has.
Gameplay is perhaps the biggest factor. A game can be all of the above, but still not retain players, because the gameplay isn't engaging.
maaan if real paper and pen RPGs were like this!
Generation P
I agreed with everything you said except this.
Alternate advancement as it is done in EQ/EQ2 is horrible in my opinion. It is nothing more than removing class abilities and making players grind psuedo mini levels after they have reached max level to regain them. That is all AA points are; forcing players to fill up more empty experience bars.
There is such a thing as to much and between AA, Mythical/Fabled, Tier armor, Master spells, etc etc it just becomes to much grind and not real customization. That isn't customization as much as it is raising the barrier to entry for no reason other than requiring more time investment.
The current blizzard talent system is really good, because it gives each class several very distinct playstyle changes which is the goal. The new changes coming up will hopefully remove the need for many mandatory choices in the tree and allow even more customization within each tree between players.
WoW doesn't do anything special, it just conjures the same fuzzy feeling that EQ and UO gave to people when it was their first game too. The majority of WoW players are new inductees to the market, of course it's the best game ever to these people - it took their virginity for Christ's sake.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
So anyone with prior mmo experience to wow is just living off nostalgia.
Anyone without prior mmo experience doesn't know any better.
That is certainly one way to tailor support for your opinions I guess.
People are sheep that not only like to be told what to do but be taken by the hand and led to the objective. That is why WOW is popular. There are more non gamers in the world than gamers, what Blizzard did was figure out how to suck them into the hobby and keep them playing. Fast and easy gratification is the formula. The game has become easier with each patch and xpac and shows no signs of letting up anytime soon.
If what you said doesn't make any sense to you, then I'm not gonna bother convincing ya. It's quite evident that nostalgia keeps people from enjoying newer games, and WoW players that haven't tried anything else yet simply don't know any better.
It's obvious, at least to the vast majority that have been stating this fact for the better part of a few years now.
Is there not a hoard of people looking for a replacement for UO/EQ?
Is there not a hoard of people that keep going back to WoW since it was the first, and best one they *have* tried?
Both points reflect perception altering amounts of nostalgic idiocy.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture