My problem with the F2P games is that too often they are misleading and manipulative. They claim you can play them without using the item shop, but then they consciously make the game too frustrating and unenjoyable to play without using it. As an example, I just introduced my son to a free-to-play game. A few days later he likes the game but is already hitting me up to pay for things because it's too frustrating without it. This feels to me like the Ally Bank bike commercial where the girl finds out if she rides her bike more than 2 feet there is a fee. So I'm pretty down on F2P games at the moment. I won't say that I will never play one, but it's unlikely.
I'm with Amathe. Pretty much the basis is trying to make it appear free-to-play in the beginning, and then when the player gets sucked in to the point where they're entrenched into the game, then they'll gradually force in item shop in order to get anywhere (I mean, I played Jade Dynasty with my brother these past few months. The game's premise means that the better-exp-giving quests require certain things like flying mounts, which cost $50 USD. Highway robbery, much? And let's not get started on the impulse buying. I can't believe I actually had the urge to spend $10 for a costume that I thought looked great, ffs).
Well, at least I can buy game time in EVE using ISK. Love it to death and never paid a dime. Now that's F2P.
I dont think those Item mall games are trying to look any more free to play over the P2P trying to look so much more than they actually are when you have pre-ordered the box and played it for the first month.
I really dont see the diffrence with the flying mount you are talking about - to the next WOW expansion. Come to think of it - you have not been able to fly in WOW unless you spend EXTRA money to buy more content.
But hey.. my understanding of Free to play might be diffrent than yours. I consider free to play to be a game that I can download for free - create account for free and play for free as long as I like. If I really like the game ... I might actually use the item malls - and then its no longer free to play game.
Would I like an item mall game that prevents me from enjoying part of the content unsless I buy access to it ? Nope - I would not. But then ... Not every F2P MMO has that feature.
Considering the OP was pretty straight forward in what he was saying its funny for people to rail against him when he explicitly calls people that cry 'NEVER!' snobs and gives a reason. You guys that are angry with him and calling him a hypocrite don't get the point that if you say never you are in fact claiming to be omniscient and he equates this self-delusion with bring a snob. Never implies a complete closedmindedness in the person saying it because there is zero chance anyone can tell the future. And since you can't tell the future, there must be a reason behind you flat out blasting an entire genre or business model and being a snob or at least arrogant about the position you are holding is a pretty straight forward jump. There is definitely a difference between holding an opinion that is strong and being unmovable in your stance.
I would go as far to say that if there was ever a study carried out were they took a number of people from a similar background and offered a third of them access to a game on a f2p cash shop model with as much currency to spend on them as they felt they needed to enjoy the game. Then give a third access to the same game but with a paid for p2p model. Then give the remaining third access to the game with no fee to pay and no currency to buy any items. The result will most likely be, The players on the f2p model with currency to buy cash shop items would absolutely enjoy the game but would end up spending more on the game than the p2p players, The p2p players would equally enjoy the game. The players on f2p with no currency to buy items would get absolutely fed up and not even complete the study.
That completely contradicts the argument that earning your items makes things more rewarding. It seems like the ones with all the money would get bored fast and move on... or do you really beleive that money will buy you happiness?
Um, I'm sorry I was trying to point out that those with limited access to all the features of the game due to lack of currency would find it less entertaining. Money doesn't buy happiness. money buys a pastime. its the same reason footballers get paid millions to entertain supporters, and the brewery's make money making beer. we don't have to drink and go to football matches to entertain our self's. But we do don't we.
And some ppl support Man Utd while other support Boston United. The quality is diffrent but the entertainment is still there. Its not for others to judge what others call entertainment. Thats why the OP was talking about snobs. Cause P2P ppl do very often consider themselfs to be superior to those that play F2P.
I play both types. I enjoy some and dislike others. The good part about F2P is that I do not have to spend money to find out if I really would be into the game. But I will have to pay money to almost all P2P games that have released in the past 1 or 2 years to actually find out - even if they work on my PC.
Ok yes there is the premis that people that are used to the p2p model are snobs I myself do like yourself play p2p, f2p, p2p with cash shops etc. the "snobs" find themsels in an increasingly smaller and smaller marketplace when looking for a game that alows them to pay a fixed fee that rewards them for the time and effort they put into a game i.e. the "Hard Core Gamer".And in its place the market place for people with more disposable income but less time to spend playing "The Casual Gamer" has grown. This has left a great number of players that still wich to continue with their passtime quite bitter and dare I say it Snobbish towards the more casual style of gamming that the majoraty f2p games portray.
I would go as far to say that if there was ever a study carried out were they took a number of people from a similar background and offered a third of them access to a game on a f2p cash shop model with as much currency to spend on them as they felt they needed to enjoy the game. Then give a third access to the same game but with a paid for p2p model. Then give the remaining third access to the game with no fee to pay and no currency to buy any items. The result will most likely be, The players on the f2p model with currency to buy cash shop items would absolutely enjoy the game but would end up spending more on the game than the p2p players, The p2p players would equally enjoy the game. The players on f2p with no currency to buy items would get absolutely fed up and not even complete the study.
That completely contradicts the argument that earning your items makes things more rewarding. It seems like the ones with all the money would get bored fast and move on... or do you really beleive that money will buy you happiness?
Believe? No. I *know* money *can* buy me happiness. ^^ Its all in how its applied. Money just adds more opportunities. What you do with those is entirely up to you. P2P/F2P or some hybrid. It doesn't matter as long as its entertaining.
Any quotes on the money being made in the Chinese market? I am not saying North America or even so called "western" markets are paramount in anyway, but the data I have seen shows the amount of money being made in China is miniscule considering the number of people playing. I wouldn't be surprised, at all, if there is a ton of money being made in Korea or Japan though. Then again, if you want a community that focuses outside the USA and "western" marketes, you need to change the name of this website and the default language. It's kind of like standing in the middle of New York city and asking everyone why they are so focused on New York City... ummm.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I have no problems paying 14.99 a month to play a game, I like, it is the cheapest entertainment, I can find 24/7... heck movies and popcorn will cost you more these days for about 2 hours.. I have played some free games, never found one with the quality I liked.. or they were not truely a free game and by the time they nickled and dimed you to death, might as well have payed a monthly fee,...:)
I use to say I would never play a game with a micro shop even if it was a F2P. Now i just play what is fun to play. What difference does it make if i pay $ 14.99 a month for a year to play a game or if I play a F2p but spend $100.00 buying items in a games micro shop. I would infact have spent less money to play the f2p and shop in their store than to pay a sub each month to play.
Not to mention avoiding the costs of the original software ($20 - $50 or more) and expansions.
I used to say I'd never pay every month to play a game. It kept me away from MMOs for a long time. What effect did this have? I ended up spending more buying new single player games during a year than I have ever spent on $15.00 a month subscriptions. I've played World of Warcraft on and off (more on than off) for the better part of three years. In that time I've bought less than ten single player games, since WoW kept me plenty occupied. Before WoW, I would have bought two or three single- player games every month, easily.
To each their own, of course, but for my money, there are some enjoyable F2P games out there. Every time I log into Cabal, I have fun playing for a spell. Does it have the awe inspiring magnificence of some of the triple-A MMOs? No. But it's still cool looking, fun to play, and easy to keep on my hard drive because it costs nothing (but bits) to be there.
From time to time I throw some money into the Item Mall as well. After all, if I'm willing to pay $15.00 a month to gain nothing more than the ability to log into one game, why not be willing to spend $5.00 or $10.00 a month to get some small in game bonuses that help me move through the game a little more quickly? (I know, the bane of MMORPG.com: XP pots.)
Like Richard, I don't understand the, "I'll NEVER play a F2P game!!!" attitude. Certain things would turn me away from a F2P game. I would not play a F2P game that required me to pay to get to a new map in the game. I would never play a game that requires you to buy armor and weapons to compete in PvP. But not all F2P games do those things.
Meanwhile, P2P games are beginning to charge for such things. Want more content? Buy it. Want more characters slots? Buy them, because for $50.00 we can only afford to give you three. More is coming. And not just for MMO games, but single-player games as well. Which I abhor. You want me to pay for the game, plus pay for the connection to your server, plus pay for additional content because you are putting restrictions on my game play? Nah.
So what I wonder is, why wouldn't people move to F2P games? If I download a F2P game and it only has 1 character slot available to me and if I want more I have to buy more slots, I wouldn't really mind that so much. After all, I can play the game for free with one slot. Or I can choose to pay to have more slots. But the option is there. There are limitations, yes. But the choice remains mine. That is the model I would like to see in game software. It looks much better to me than the buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy some more, son of buy, return of buy, buy the reunion tour model.
Another reason I don't understand the, "I'll NEVER play a F2P game!!!" attitude is this. Would you really rather pay $50.00 for a box, hoping you enjoy the game, for... what? Principal? Do I need to put up the list of $50.00 (or more) games many people have been "burned" by in the last couple of years or more? It's a long list. I assure you, the list of free games people have wasted their money on, just to try, is much shorter.
Try a free game or two. You might find one you like.
Playing | GW2 Wanting | Pantheon Watching | Crowfall Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR
I would play a F2P if I found one that looks fun for me. Most that I read up on are cartoony, bubble gummy, anime that as an older gamer does appeal to me.
So i guess I am a snob in one way as I prefer to solo and even reject group invites, unless the objective is to hard for one player to complete and then I'll do my part thank the group and leave.
I haven't logged in to MMORPG.com for a while. I occasionally pop over to read an article, but for the most part I don't bother participating much. Why? Too many F2P games or games with item shops featured here. I've tried numerous games with one or both attributes, and they are generally crap. Why would I want to continue hitting myself with a hammer if it hurts every time?
Item shops are nothing more than money sinks. The sole purpose of an item shop is to increase revenue by conning players into believing that virtual items they don't truly own actually have cash value. It is a con. A ripoff. It is a sad example of what happens when developers lose sight of what gaming is about.
I had considered giving DDO another try, then it went free. I won't touch it now. Does that make me a snob? No. It makes me a customer expressing his opinion with his wallet. If a developer wants my money, they will have to produce a quality game which does not include an item shop or other "free to play" scam.
Well I will just say this my gripe about the f2p market is the nicke and dime that goes on, I would rather pay a sub and not be nickled and dimed to death or changed 42k to pimp out a toon.
I have seen way to many of those f2p game's that if you want to make anything out of it you spend big bucks.
Not only that, but I have actually taken a good look at several of the f2p, I have yet to find one yet that was something I liked, and almost 80% of them fall in way to cartoon like for my good.
Im not trying to be a snob since I dont liking the f2p model, I will just have to say I perfer the sub model; and if I am a snob for saying that well so be it.
I would play a F2P if I found one that looks fun for me. Most that I read up on are cartoony, bubble gummy, anime that as an older gamer does appeal to me. So i guess I am a snob in one way as I prefer to solo and even reject group invites, unless the objective is to hard for one player to complete and then I'll do my part thank the group and leave.
yup sorry to say you are a snob
try asking the group if the've anything els they need help with or if you can just take along with whatever their doing rather than concentrating on what your own quest line up is. You might be supprise how much fun you may have if you stick around and try to be friendly with the bublegumy anime cartoons. =D
I feel the F2P 'games' are inferior. not the players. people should always do what they want to do.... at least where entertainment is concerned. i never found a F2P game that I liked and can honestly say that even Vanguard was superior to any F2P i have tried, which eventually convinced me to quit trying them. if other people out there enjoy F2P then good. that just means that the market will stay alive and maybe one day one will come out with something that I like. note: i have never tried GW (many times tempted) and have my fingers crossed for GW2 as the videos are exciting.
GW is not a MMORPG tho.
if People can call any Online Multiplayer RPG game a MMO, then why isnt Diablo a MMO?
I'll never play a game I know won't hold my interest just because I don't have to pay for it. Sadly, this accounts for an overwhelming majority of F2P games. All I can think of that interests me is Allods, and that's just as a placebo for WoW to keep me from returning to the latter.
The problem with F2P is that it is even more open to negatively impacting the game than a sub game, RMT is a slippery slope.
No game that was made to be F2P has yet offered up a game that can be played hassle-free, the temptation to fuck with the game structure, mechanics & content in order to line the game management's pocket's is simply too great, all F2P whether initially or later on, inevitably slip into screwing up the game to satisfy their greed & profit margins.
P2P games at least if built for a sub, aim to provide a game that has all of the game content available as a low a inconvenience as possible, the two mindsets are diametricly opposed, putting in extra "fluff" in a P2P has been done both well, such as paid rename services, & badly "trading cards games ala sony". F2P games in the main do not offer only such services, & are so far poorer in quality than P2P games, this lack of quality os in almost all of the games I played so far as a direct result of the game systems & mechanics feeling forced & deliberately inconvenienced in order to force item shop purchases.
F2P = paying to ungimp your character, & getting fleeced to pay more for less, until that paradigm is altered it will always be viewed with scepticism, nothing wrong with the principles of F2P....but greed is much harder to resist with that system, for both the developers & the players.
Turbine's DDO was the very first F2P I thought I got value for money from, all the rest were a rip off, FLYFF, Rappelz, RoM, Fiesta, & a whole bunch of others, most notably Allods which plumbed new depths of depravity, the F2P model is not getting better, in fact it's getting worse, not exactly a forward looking trend.
F2P companies need to be making a game that offers a comparable product for a comparable expenditure to their average player, they haven't done so yet, it's a young model but so far it's almost all mistakes & few successes.
The business model behind the game has (to me) no reflection on the game its self, not that I have played "every" MMO but I have sampled a wide enough selection of all models to see the following.
A crap game is a crap game regardless of its business model, premise, art style, region of origin or even its game play mechanics <surprisingly I once held game play over all else with all genre>. A MMO is a bit more than *any* one of its part and many would argue (my self-included) its value is not the sum of its part (maybe more, maybe less). I have played absolutely horrid games from well-known highly seasoned developers and I have played absolute gems from indies. I have played solid bags of crap on a 14.95 a month sub and I have had my fun in free to play worlds with and without item shops. I have enjoyed my time in "hardcore" open sandbox environments as well as care bare central PvE only games.
Now it really depends on the gamer, some gamers are what they are in the since of a love for the overarching genre or even to a larger scale the industry, much like movie buff or book worm will watch or read just about anything and can and will take some positive aspects from said consumption while others even most are very selective. For example though I enjoy a good movie I will not (willingly) watch the life time man hatting movies no matter how good it’s supposed to be.
So when I hear a gamer say I will never <enter target of loathing here> I can believe them and understand there point of view, do I think they believe themselves better than not? em no, nor do I care if they do; the only though that pops to mined is that they have a far more narrow selection of potential games to choose from than say someone like me who enjoyed his time everything from Wizards 101 to Darkfall, (this applies outside the MMO genre as well just for note).
Am I a snob? since snob simply means an arrogant *or* annoying person I would say yes to some at least, I’m sure I annoy at least some one and that at least 1 person finds me an arrogant ass but over all I would say most players especially here in the ADD spaz generation of level 1-max in 6.5 seconds I am not even on the radar, what are the odds that this post will be read, or even this thread; the % of the MMO player base that even reads this site, you could argue by the original posters final comment in relation to readers of this blog being more opened minded that he/she and we are a bit arrogant (the South Park episode with the hybrid cars and smug cloud come to mind). So if you’re looking for honesty the answer to the title question is always "sometimes" but never yes or no though the Boolean type question suggest the original poster is working toward the disambiguation of the MMO player basis while I believe that is impossible since most of the aspects of a player are variable and subject to change day to day or even moment to moment.
I would play a F2P if I found one that looks fun for me. Most that I read up on are cartoony, bubble gummy, anime that as an older gamer does appeal to me. So i guess I am a snob in one way as I prefer to solo and even reject group invites, unless the objective is to hard for one player to complete and then I'll do my part thank the group and leave.
yup sorry to say you are a snob
try asking the group if the've anything els they need help with or if you can just take along with whatever their doing rather than concentrating on what your own quest line up is. You might be supprise how much fun you may have if you stick around and try to be friendly with the bublegumy anime cartoons. =D
Ha Dendro's last statement there brings my snobishness out, to me a MMO exsist for its social aspect, I prefer a game where grouping is nearly a must, where soloing is damn hard and time consuming, where you even *need* that ass hat overthere to balance out your group so you can push forward. The social dynamics are what I play for (the ups and downs even in stricly PvE play) you can find vastly supperior RPGs in the stand alone market by leaps and bounds supperior . . . really if you are a solest I think you will love some of the single player RPGs out there (I play both MMO and nonMMO) the rpg in MMORPG is a bit of a joke really, I have yet to find a MMO that was anywhere near the quality of RPG than even the half baked console RPGs tend to be and many of them are multi player though not massive some have a battle net like community as well so you have that the only thing missing is the negatives of the social which to mean enable the positives of the social aspects. More to it a stand alone is always free to play and rarely has an item shop though some now do they are by no means needed (what you get in the box is all you need to hit end game)
Many of the people who will never because they have never found one that is worthwhile? I wonder how many that is..if any in some cases.
An early writer brings up the Guild Wars model where nothing that mattered was available in a shop. A good game without any need to ever buy anything after the initial box purchase. No sub cost ,ever.
I'm sure there are many that are, in fact, good games. People who can't get past the idea of an item shop in a FTP don't seem to gasp the fact that there must be a way to generate revenues. As a rule, even in a game that is relativly dependant on a shop the average player won't spend hearly what a sub costs ( $14.95 X 12 months=$179.40 X maybe 2 years of play=$358.8).
The bottom line...Is it a good game, one that one would enjoy...playit!! If not the FTP/PTP status realy doesn't mean squat.
Mostly because I spend any free time I have gaming as I no longer fancy bars and other so called "adult" activities that I'd end up spending way more on than in a cash shop. That said, I'd most assuredly switch to those adult hobbies (more hunting and fishing and camping, etc.) and their expenses than pay for items in a cash shop. Hey, at least with those I get to keep an item that I can actually do something with in the real world (since I'm spending real world cash for an item and not a service which is what P2P are(a service)). - Kalathwyr
Kal, I totally agree with you and I am in the same boat. I no longer partake in the "cool" adult activities like bars and clubs. For the money I spend on 2 drinks I could pay for 1 month subscription. I just choose to do other things with my time. Although I do many other things such as hiking, camping and the gym. Gaming has and always will be my guilty pleasure. On topic: My snobberey usually becomes more prominent when I am looking at the mechanics and the graphics of a game. I am not too concerned with the f2p or not to f2p split. I just want to play a good game and have fun. Thats why we: hike, camp, party, game, race fast cars, chase hot girls, box, read, watch TV etc. Its because these activities make us happy. If we are not happy with what we are doing, we don't like a TV show, it doesn't mean we are snobs, it means we have TASTE. Frank
The bottom line...Is it a good game, one that one would enjoy...playit!! If not the FTP/PTP status realy doesn't mean squat.
If it weren't for the fact that every F2P game I have tried has been horrible, I would agree with you. It seems that F2P developers don't usually have much imagination, or the mechanics are built around item shop profiteering. I would MUCH rather pay a subscription and know that the game's balancing isn't based on item shop revenue.
Item shop business models are based on one concept, and one concept only. Greed.
I did not wade through 122 posts, so this may have been said already.
But using your own measuring stick aren't you a snob?. Basically you are saying that YOU NEVER say never...that YOU NEVER speak in exaggeration, that YOU have the open-mind...that YOU are smarter because YOU think this way....seriously what a colossal waste of time. Just like you said 'I find this hard to believe'. If you truly believe what you said about not caring one way or the other on the issues YOU brought up, then why were you so compelled to sit down and write this article? Maybe because YOUR way of thinking about the issues IS the BEST way of thinking?. Awesome. Thank you so much stating the obvious that everyone has an opinion and it is the right one.
I have to say I like seeing articles like these from Aihoshi from time to time. It reminds me his real objective in his column, to which he will occasionally go to the extent of trying to break the opposition with such flawed or hypocritical thoughts. It's his attempt to do it, with some serious intensity. It's marketing.
But this is getting pretty ridiculous. If I disagree with him, I'm basically a snob. As if I don't attempt to play F2Ps or something like that, but I don't really need to hide that.
I try them. I really try. I try so hard I can see how they attempt to drain my money, and I can actually see the ways they attempt to do that, from a hidden monthly fee with the form of some real advantage or renting a good-looking item, or the one-time payments that give you efficiency, and the big money sinks that can turn you GODLY if you can dish the hundreds or thousands needed (which in turn make the game look like a bad joke, creating the ironic scenario in which you would be achieving a lot more if you were working to fund your playing in these games). Anyway I notice how P2P games are generally far superior for the value, and as you see more and more higher budget F2P games making their appearance it becomes even clearer. Sure you can be trying to play a F2P fully for free, but hey, that's you handicapping yourself in comparison to others.
It's business logic, you have a much smaller paying player base, therefore you will need to achieve a much higher average revenue from this reduced pool of players and/or reduce the budget for the game (everything in-game and off-game like customer support or web functionalities) to compensate. And since I am on the paying side, the environment is much more hostile to my budget.
Why did I explain my thinking? Because I hope you are superior than being an aggressive marketing target, and this kind of one-sided biased even to the point of harassing opposition column is exactly what we don't need here - the ads are already there for those looking for the "Play for Free" games, we should be discussing other things on these columns instead of being marketed.
Hey... maybe I am on denial (see another of his columns which calls everyone not acknowledging the strength and growth of F2Ps to be "on denial", though as usual it's his attempt of exaggerating correct assumptions to aim for a broader understanding than what the assumption aimed for, a biasis exactly like a PR - pick a few favorable facts, exaggerate and extravagate, don't look at the other side of the coin when it's better).
As long as the new sweet boss drops the sword - why the hell do you care how the guy next to you got his sword? If you want to go for the new boss to get it then GO !
Probably because it cheapens the point of spending time in the game and trying playing the game to quest for things. Buying things in an item shop isn't playing a game or gameplay. Time is a currency we all have.
1) Of all the F2P MMOs, can you tell us what percentage of them you think offers the epic drop items in the item mall? Seems like a bit of a strawman you're setting up there, no?
2) Time is a currency that many think they have a lot more of than they really have. In the end, some like to waste time on their entertainment/hobby, some like to waste money on it and some like to waste both.
3) To hold the position that the way you waste your time as more productive, better, more honorable, more rewarding, etc than the way someone else wastes their time is a bit odd - You're both wasting time.
I don't have the time nor inclination to supply a comprehensive list for you so I'll just give one of the more well known ones: Atlantica Online. In it you have to purchase a randomized box for mounts which give bonuses for PvE and PvP, The in game mounts do not have comparable stats, if any at all. It is less strawman and more your lack of experience playing/trying a range of games I believe.
Money is a currency that many can not afford to waste on a hobby/entertainment in the excesses that many of these F2P games ask for in their item malls. Through wasting time, eventually everyone can attain game items desired for gameplay. This can not be said for money as there are much more demands on the money we attain than the time we amass.
If it were only a matter of wasting time I can agree. Unfortunately this topic includes the bestowing of in game advantages to only those who have real world currency to pay for it leaving those who either do not have the extra money or care to spend it on other vices at a disadvantage.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
I'm with Amathe. Pretty much the basis is trying to make it appear free-to-play in the beginning, and then when the player gets sucked in to the point where they're entrenched into the game, then they'll gradually force in item shop in order to get anywhere (I mean, I played Jade Dynasty with my brother these past few months. The game's premise means that the better-exp-giving quests require certain things like flying mounts, which cost $50 USD. Highway robbery, much? And let's not get started on the impulse buying. I can't believe I actually had the urge to spend $10 for a costume that I thought looked great, ffs).
Well, at least I can buy game time in EVE using ISK. Love it to death and never paid a dime. Now that's F2P.
I dont think those Item mall games are trying to look any more free to play over the P2P trying to look so much more than they actually are when you have pre-ordered the box and played it for the first month.
I really dont see the diffrence with the flying mount you are talking about - to the next WOW expansion. Come to think of it - you have not been able to fly in WOW unless you spend EXTRA money to buy more content.
But hey.. my understanding of Free to play might be diffrent than yours. I consider free to play to be a game that I can download for free - create account for free and play for free as long as I like. If I really like the game ... I might actually use the item malls - and then its no longer free to play game.
Would I like an item mall game that prevents me from enjoying part of the content unsless I buy access to it ? Nope - I would not. But then ... Not every F2P MMO has that feature.
Considering the OP was pretty straight forward in what he was saying its funny for people to rail against him when he explicitly calls people that cry 'NEVER!' snobs and gives a reason. You guys that are angry with him and calling him a hypocrite don't get the point that if you say never you are in fact claiming to be omniscient and he equates this self-delusion with bring a snob. Never implies a complete closedmindedness in the person saying it because there is zero chance anyone can tell the future. And since you can't tell the future, there must be a reason behind you flat out blasting an entire genre or business model and being a snob or at least arrogant about the position you are holding is a pretty straight forward jump. There is definitely a difference between holding an opinion that is strong and being unmovable in your stance.
That completely contradicts the argument that earning your items makes things more rewarding. It seems like the ones with all the money would get bored fast and move on... or do you really beleive that money will buy you happiness?
Um, I'm sorry I was trying to point out that those with limited access to all the features of the game due to lack of currency would find it less entertaining. Money doesn't buy happiness. money buys a pastime. its the same reason footballers get paid millions to entertain supporters, and the brewery's make money making beer. we don't have to drink and go to football matches to entertain our self's. But we do don't we.
And some ppl support Man Utd while other support Boston United. The quality is diffrent but the entertainment is still there. Its not for others to judge what others call entertainment. Thats why the OP was talking about snobs. Cause P2P ppl do very often consider themselfs to be superior to those that play F2P.
I play both types. I enjoy some and dislike others. The good part about F2P is that I do not have to spend money to find out if I really would be into the game. But I will have to pay money to almost all P2P games that have released in the past 1 or 2 years to actually find out - even if they work on my PC.
Ok yes there is the premis that people that are used to the p2p model are snobs I myself do like yourself play p2p, f2p, p2p with cash shops etc. the "snobs" find themsels in an increasingly smaller and smaller marketplace when looking for a game that alows them to pay a fixed fee that rewards them for the time and effort they put into a game i.e. the "Hard Core Gamer".And in its place the market place for people with more disposable income but less time to spend playing "The Casual Gamer" has grown. This has left a great number of players that still wich to continue with their passtime quite bitter and dare I say it Snobbish towards the more casual style of gamming that the majoraty f2p games portray.
That completely contradicts the argument that earning your items makes things more rewarding. It seems like the ones with all the money would get bored fast and move on... or do you really beleive that money will buy you happiness?
Believe? No. I *know* money *can* buy me happiness. ^^ Its all in how its applied. Money just adds more opportunities. What you do with those is entirely up to you. P2P/F2P or some hybrid. It doesn't matter as long as its entertaining.
Why yes, yes I am an MMO snob thank you very much.
Any quotes on the money being made in the Chinese market? I am not saying North America or even so called "western" markets are paramount in anyway, but the data I have seen shows the amount of money being made in China is miniscule considering the number of people playing. I wouldn't be surprised, at all, if there is a ton of money being made in Korea or Japan though. Then again, if you want a community that focuses outside the USA and "western" marketes, you need to change the name of this website and the default language. It's kind of like standing in the middle of New York city and asking everyone why they are so focused on New York City... ummm.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I have no problems paying 14.99 a month to play a game, I like, it is the cheapest entertainment, I can find 24/7... heck movies and popcorn will cost you more these days for about 2 hours.. I have played some free games, never found one with the quality I liked.. or they were not truely a free game and by the time they nickled and dimed you to death, might as well have payed a monthly fee,...:)
Not to mention avoiding the costs of the original software ($20 - $50 or more) and expansions.
I used to say I'd never pay every month to play a game. It kept me away from MMOs for a long time. What effect did this have? I ended up spending more buying new single player games during a year than I have ever spent on $15.00 a month subscriptions. I've played World of Warcraft on and off (more on than off) for the better part of three years. In that time I've bought less than ten single player games, since WoW kept me plenty occupied. Before WoW, I would have bought two or three single- player games every month, easily.
To each their own, of course, but for my money, there are some enjoyable F2P games out there. Every time I log into Cabal, I have fun playing for a spell. Does it have the awe inspiring magnificence of some of the triple-A MMOs? No. But it's still cool looking, fun to play, and easy to keep on my hard drive because it costs nothing (but bits) to be there.
From time to time I throw some money into the Item Mall as well. After all, if I'm willing to pay $15.00 a month to gain nothing more than the ability to log into one game, why not be willing to spend $5.00 or $10.00 a month to get some small in game bonuses that help me move through the game a little more quickly? (I know, the bane of MMORPG.com: XP pots.)
Like Richard, I don't understand the, "I'll NEVER play a F2P game!!!" attitude. Certain things would turn me away from a F2P game. I would not play a F2P game that required me to pay to get to a new map in the game. I would never play a game that requires you to buy armor and weapons to compete in PvP. But not all F2P games do those things.
Meanwhile, P2P games are beginning to charge for such things. Want more content? Buy it. Want more characters slots? Buy them, because for $50.00 we can only afford to give you three. More is coming. And not just for MMO games, but single-player games as well. Which I abhor. You want me to pay for the game, plus pay for the connection to your server, plus pay for additional content because you are putting restrictions on my game play? Nah.
So what I wonder is, why wouldn't people move to F2P games? If I download a F2P game and it only has 1 character slot available to me and if I want more I have to buy more slots, I wouldn't really mind that so much. After all, I can play the game for free with one slot. Or I can choose to pay to have more slots. But the option is there. There are limitations, yes. But the choice remains mine. That is the model I would like to see in game software. It looks much better to me than the buy, buy, buy, buy, buy, buy some more, son of buy, return of buy, buy the reunion tour model.
Another reason I don't understand the, "I'll NEVER play a F2P game!!!" attitude is this. Would you really rather pay $50.00 for a box, hoping you enjoy the game, for... what? Principal? Do I need to put up the list of $50.00 (or more) games many people have been "burned" by in the last couple of years or more? It's a long list. I assure you, the list of free games people have wasted their money on, just to try, is much shorter.
Try a free game or two. You might find one you like.
Playing | GW2
Wanting | Pantheon
Watching | Crowfall
Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR
I would play a F2P if I found one that looks fun for me. Most that I read up on are cartoony, bubble gummy, anime that as an older gamer does appeal to me.
So i guess I am a snob in one way as I prefer to solo and even reject group invites, unless the objective is to hard for one player to complete and then I'll do my part thank the group and leave.
Collector of old minis.
Playing WAR:Age of Rekoning
www.oldtimersguild.com
I haven't logged in to MMORPG.com for a while. I occasionally pop over to read an article, but for the most part I don't bother participating much. Why? Too many F2P games or games with item shops featured here. I've tried numerous games with one or both attributes, and they are generally crap. Why would I want to continue hitting myself with a hammer if it hurts every time?
Item shops are nothing more than money sinks. The sole purpose of an item shop is to increase revenue by conning players into believing that virtual items they don't truly own actually have cash value. It is a con. A ripoff. It is a sad example of what happens when developers lose sight of what gaming is about.
I had considered giving DDO another try, then it went free. I won't touch it now. Does that make me a snob? No. It makes me a customer expressing his opinion with his wallet. If a developer wants my money, they will have to produce a quality game which does not include an item shop or other "free to play" scam.
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Support Independent Game Developers
Well I will just say this my gripe about the f2p market is the nicke and dime that goes on, I would rather pay a sub and not be nickled and dimed to death or changed 42k to pimp out a toon.
I have seen way to many of those f2p game's that if you want to make anything out of it you spend big bucks.
Not only that, but I have actually taken a good look at several of the f2p, I have yet to find one yet that was something I liked, and almost 80% of them fall in way to cartoon like for my good.
Im not trying to be a snob since I dont liking the f2p model, I will just have to say I perfer the sub model; and if I am a snob for saying that well so be it.
yup sorry to say you are a snob
try asking the group if the've anything els they need help with or if you can just take along with whatever their doing rather than concentrating on what your own quest line up is. You might be supprise how much fun you may have if you stick around and try to be friendly with the bublegumy anime cartoons. =D
GW is not a MMORPG tho.
if People can call any Online Multiplayer RPG game a MMO, then why isnt Diablo a MMO?
I'll never play a game I know won't hold my interest just because I don't have to pay for it. Sadly, this accounts for an overwhelming majority of F2P games. All I can think of that interests me is Allods, and that's just as a placebo for WoW to keep me from returning to the latter.
Well, then I guess I'm a "snob".
I'm not sure I like this guys articles so much. Seemed more like an attack piece if you ask me.
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The problem with F2P is that it is even more open to negatively impacting the game than a sub game, RMT is a slippery slope.
No game that was made to be F2P has yet offered up a game that can be played hassle-free, the temptation to fuck with the game structure, mechanics & content in order to line the game management's pocket's is simply too great, all F2P whether initially or later on, inevitably slip into screwing up the game to satisfy their greed & profit margins.
P2P games at least if built for a sub, aim to provide a game that has all of the game content available as a low a inconvenience as possible, the two mindsets are diametricly opposed, putting in extra "fluff" in a P2P has been done both well, such as paid rename services, & badly "trading cards games ala sony". F2P games in the main do not offer only such services, & are so far poorer in quality than P2P games, this lack of quality os in almost all of the games I played so far as a direct result of the game systems & mechanics feeling forced & deliberately inconvenienced in order to force item shop purchases.
F2P = paying to ungimp your character, & getting fleeced to pay more for less, until that paradigm is altered it will always be viewed with scepticism, nothing wrong with the principles of F2P....but greed is much harder to resist with that system, for both the developers & the players.
Turbine's DDO was the very first F2P I thought I got value for money from, all the rest were a rip off, FLYFF, Rappelz, RoM, Fiesta, & a whole bunch of others, most notably Allods which plumbed new depths of depravity, the F2P model is not getting better, in fact it's getting worse, not exactly a forward looking trend.
F2P companies need to be making a game that offers a comparable product for a comparable expenditure to their average player, they haven't done so yet, it's a young model but so far it's almost all mistakes & few successes.
The business model behind the game has (to me) no reflection on the game its self, not that I have played "every" MMO but I have sampled a wide enough selection of all models to see the following.
A crap game is a crap game regardless of its business model, premise, art style, region of origin or even its game play mechanics <surprisingly I once held game play over all else with all genre>. A MMO is a bit more than *any* one of its part and many would argue (my self-included) its value is not the sum of its part (maybe more, maybe less). I have played absolutely horrid games from well-known highly seasoned developers and I have played absolute gems from indies. I have played solid bags of crap on a 14.95 a month sub and I have had my fun in free to play worlds with and without item shops. I have enjoyed my time in "hardcore" open sandbox environments as well as care bare central PvE only games.
Now it really depends on the gamer, some gamers are what they are in the since of a love for the overarching genre or even to a larger scale the industry, much like movie buff or book worm will watch or read just about anything and can and will take some positive aspects from said consumption while others even most are very selective. For example though I enjoy a good movie I will not (willingly) watch the life time man hatting movies no matter how good it’s supposed to be.
So when I hear a gamer say I will never <enter target of loathing here> I can believe them and understand there point of view, do I think they believe themselves better than not? em no, nor do I care if they do; the only though that pops to mined is that they have a far more narrow selection of potential games to choose from than say someone like me who enjoyed his time everything from Wizards 101 to Darkfall, (this applies outside the MMO genre as well just for note).
Am I a snob? since snob simply means an arrogant *or* annoying person I would say yes to some at least, I’m sure I annoy at least some one and that at least 1 person finds me an arrogant ass but over all I would say most players especially here in the ADD spaz generation of level 1-max in 6.5 seconds I am not even on the radar, what are the odds that this post will be read, or even this thread; the % of the MMO player base that even reads this site, you could argue by the original posters final comment in relation to readers of this blog being more opened minded that he/she and we are a bit arrogant (the South Park episode with the hybrid cars and smug cloud come to mind). So if you’re looking for honesty the answer to the title question is always "sometimes" but never yes or no though the Boolean type question suggest the original poster is working toward the disambiguation of the MMO player basis while I believe that is impossible since most of the aspects of a player are variable and subject to change day to day or even moment to moment.
yup sorry to say you are a snob
try asking the group if the've anything els they need help with or if you can just take along with whatever their doing rather than concentrating on what your own quest line up is. You might be supprise how much fun you may have if you stick around and try to be friendly with the bublegumy anime cartoons. =D
Ha Dendro's last statement there brings my snobishness out, to me a MMO exsist for its social aspect, I prefer a game where grouping is nearly a must, where soloing is damn hard and time consuming, where you even *need* that ass hat overthere to balance out your group so you can push forward. The social dynamics are what I play for (the ups and downs even in stricly PvE play) you can find vastly supperior RPGs in the stand alone market by leaps and bounds supperior . . . really if you are a solest I think you will love some of the single player RPGs out there (I play both MMO and nonMMO) the rpg in MMORPG is a bit of a joke really, I have yet to find a MMO that was anywhere near the quality of RPG than even the half baked console RPGs tend to be and many of them are multi player though not massive some have a battle net like community as well so you have that the only thing missing is the negatives of the social which to mean enable the positives of the social aspects. More to it a stand alone is always free to play
and rarely has an item shop though some now do they are by no means needed (what you get in the box is all you need to hit end game)
Well ! So many I'll never people.
Many of the people who will never because they have never found one that is worthwhile? I wonder how many that is..if any in some cases.
An early writer brings up the Guild Wars model where nothing that mattered was available in a shop. A good game without any need to ever buy anything after the initial box purchase. No sub cost ,ever.
I'm sure there are many that are, in fact, good games. People who can't get past the idea of an item shop in a FTP don't seem to gasp the fact that there must be a way to generate revenues. As a rule, even in a game that is relativly dependant on a shop the average player won't spend hearly what a sub costs ( $14.95 X 12 months=$179.40 X maybe 2 years of play=$358.8).
The bottom line...Is it a good game, one that one would enjoy...playit!! If not the FTP/PTP status realy doesn't mean squat.
If it weren't for the fact that every F2P game I have tried has been horrible, I would agree with you. It seems that F2P developers don't usually have much imagination, or the mechanics are built around item shop profiteering. I would MUCH rather pay a subscription and know that the game's balancing isn't based on item shop revenue.
Item shop business models are based on one concept, and one concept only. Greed.
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I did not wade through 122 posts, so this may have been said already.
But using your own measuring stick aren't you a snob?. Basically you are saying that YOU NEVER say never...that YOU NEVER speak in exaggeration, that YOU have the open-mind...that YOU are smarter because YOU think this way....seriously what a colossal waste of time. Just like you said 'I find this hard to believe'. If you truly believe what you said about not caring one way or the other on the issues YOU brought up, then why were you so compelled to sit down and write this article? Maybe because YOUR way of thinking about the issues IS the BEST way of thinking?. Awesome. Thank you so much stating the obvious that everyone has an opinion and it is the right one.
I have to say I like seeing articles like these from Aihoshi from time to time. It reminds me his real objective in his column, to which he will occasionally go to the extent of trying to break the opposition with such flawed or hypocritical thoughts. It's his attempt to do it, with some serious intensity. It's marketing.
But this is getting pretty ridiculous. If I disagree with him, I'm basically a snob. As if I don't attempt to play F2Ps or something like that, but I don't really need to hide that.
I try them. I really try. I try so hard I can see how they attempt to drain my money, and I can actually see the ways they attempt to do that, from a hidden monthly fee with the form of some real advantage or renting a good-looking item, or the one-time payments that give you efficiency, and the big money sinks that can turn you GODLY if you can dish the hundreds or thousands needed (which in turn make the game look like a bad joke, creating the ironic scenario in which you would be achieving a lot more if you were working to fund your playing in these games). Anyway I notice how P2P games are generally far superior for the value, and as you see more and more higher budget F2P games making their appearance it becomes even clearer. Sure you can be trying to play a F2P fully for free, but hey, that's you handicapping yourself in comparison to others.
It's business logic, you have a much smaller paying player base, therefore you will need to achieve a much higher average revenue from this reduced pool of players and/or reduce the budget for the game (everything in-game and off-game like customer support or web functionalities) to compensate. And since I am on the paying side, the environment is much more hostile to my budget.
Why did I explain my thinking? Because I hope you are superior than being an aggressive marketing target, and this kind of one-sided biased even to the point of harassing opposition column is exactly what we don't need here - the ads are already there for those looking for the "Play for Free" games, we should be discussing other things on these columns instead of being marketed.
Hey... maybe I am on denial (see another of his columns which calls everyone not acknowledging the strength and growth of F2Ps to be "on denial", though as usual it's his attempt of exaggerating correct assumptions to aim for a broader understanding than what the assumption aimed for, a biasis exactly like a PR - pick a few favorable facts, exaggerate and extravagate, don't look at the other side of the coin when it's better).
A snob on denial... I wonder what's next, heh.
But...but...he NEVER speaks in exaggeration that would be a snob.....
As long as the new sweet boss drops the sword - why the hell do you care how the guy next to you got his sword? If you want to go for the new boss to get it then GO !
Probably because it cheapens the point of spending time in the game and trying playing the game to quest for things. Buying things in an item shop isn't playing a game or gameplay. Time is a currency we all have.
1) Of all the F2P MMOs, can you tell us what percentage of them you think offers the epic drop items in the item mall? Seems like a bit of a strawman you're setting up there, no?
2) Time is a currency that many think they have a lot more of than they really have. In the end, some like to waste time on their entertainment/hobby, some like to waste money on it and some like to waste both.
3) To hold the position that the way you waste your time as more productive, better, more honorable, more rewarding, etc than the way someone else wastes their time is a bit odd - You're both wasting time.
I don't have the time nor inclination to supply a comprehensive list for you so I'll just give one of the more well known ones: Atlantica Online. In it you have to purchase a randomized box for mounts which give bonuses for PvE and PvP, The in game mounts do not have comparable stats, if any at all. It is less strawman and more your lack of experience playing/trying a range of games I believe.
Money is a currency that many can not afford to waste on a hobby/entertainment in the excesses that many of these F2P games ask for in their item malls. Through wasting time, eventually everyone can attain game items desired for gameplay. This can not be said for money as there are much more demands on the money we attain than the time we amass.
If it were only a matter of wasting time I can agree. Unfortunately this topic includes the bestowing of in game advantages to only those who have real world currency to pay for it leaving those who either do not have the extra money or care to spend it on other vices at a disadvantage.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez