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General: Why No Magic: The Gathering MMO?
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com columnist Justin Webb focuses his sights this week on Wizards of the Coast's Magic IP and why we haven't seen an MMO version of it yet.
The journey to bring the Magic: the Gathering game online has been a bumpy one.
The Microprose “Shandalar” game was a promising start. In this 1997 PC game (and its two sequels), players ventured across a large 2D landscape in search of the planeswalker Azarkon. Monsters were killed by defeating them at Magic. New cards for your deck could be found from NPCs, stores, and as loot from monsters. Players could also fight their way through dungeons, trying to get to the final boss while managing their health between fights (kinda like an instance). There were rudimentary attempts at character progressions, deck building, inventory, gold, towns, etc. Players couldn’t play in the world together, but there was a multiplayer matchmaking option where players could duel online. The best bit was that you could play with all the old power cards. Sounds quite MMO-ish in places, right?
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Because there's more money in the current model in which you buy packs to play online, and the current model is more stable than a traditional MMO setting.
Well, if they set up their Game like Mytheon it might work. Can't talk about it because of NDA, but there could be an MMO based CCG.
I just wish WoTC would have let Turbine or another company do a Forgotten Realms MMO years ago or in the future even based on their terrible 4e game. I just want to play in Faerun!
Yep Magic Online is already very good.
It could use a graphical revamp similar to the Planes walker game that recently released but It gets the job done.
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The Magic game on Xbox Live seems to have done well enough. But it suffers somewhat from err "big corperate syndrome". Basically you can earn new cards, but can't actually customise the decks (not entirely true you can add the new cards, but nothing more). It looks like some higher up atoned "thou't shall not allow deck customisation... as it may affect physical sales". All but removing the first C from CCG.
The Microprose game was a masterpiece at the time, but if my memory serves it was years late and cost a huge amount to develop. So it at least had something in common with an MMO (inital release was buggy too)
Wizards really go out of their way to create solid "worlds" for the various Magic expansions, far more than is strictly neccessary. Even the weaker examples would have made outstanding MMO settings (say Kamigawa Block). Alas the fiction's quality bounces around all over the place, somethings being genuinely solid, other times basically an extended product promotion.
Magic Online pretty much serves the "play MTG online" segment extremely well, which basically leaves the "MTG flavoured Wow-clone". Essentially letting the players "play" as one a member of one of the factions presented in each block (there tends to be thematic or color aligned factions each time out) and just encountering the major players in the world as it's normal residents would. This would allow both mediums to feed each other, while not canibalising market. Killing Gribbly monster X in a physical card game would more appealing if you'd been wiping on it's raid all week. And bypasses the problem of limiting the games "planewalkers" near deific powers.
While I could get excited about such a game, fitting into the ~1 year "block" turn around of the card game would be all but impossible. Even with the fantastic "head start" all the artwork produced for card game provides. Potentially targetting a simpler (and flatter) platform such as facebook games with such would be a possible avenue? Allowing a players social network as marketing (viral or not) as proven very cost effective so far.
Alas Hasbro, Wizards overlords havn't really seemed that interested in truly growing the brand.
Hell yes Magic:TG can be an MMO, and it's sad to see the game franchise only tap on RTS' up to now. The question is though - how do you make a traditional MMO that sticks to the card-games conventions? My version would use the following points;
Meh, that's just a little, and I don't wanna get invested in the idea much more - cuz I used to to have a thing for the card game (nerd).
Edit; whoa, I didn't even know one was already out in MMO form.
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Long answer - To much reworking required of a fairly simple ruleset and spell / mana system (not so simple anymore) to allow for players to use thier 1000's of avaliable spells in a variety of ways like most MMO's (in the card game you duel usually 1 on 1.. I dont see a system working for the plainswalkers to go out with thier army of monsters and array of spells to progress against mobs...thou it could. Since that isnt what the cardgame is about..
Short answer - Single player, rule issues, system reworking, ungodly powers, limiting choices, no classes, limiting spell progression and no trading (for the most part)
Basically it would lose alot in translation, if not gain a sort of new dimension to a very Artisticly deep game that is usually played for short periods of time.
Oh forgot the most important thing..........GOLD FARMERS, imagine what they would do with RARE card/spells if you could trade them or sell them....the cardgame was bad enough at one time, with cards in the many hundreds of dollars for something you would never even play with. Or were restricted or banned...from tournament play.
But online...well that could change.
Yes if it was done like Mytheon or battleforge then yes I think it could work out.
Or even a traditional like MMO with monsters that come from actual cards, raids that are from actual decks (Anyone up for an iceage raid?), and monsters that not only drop gear but also cards to use in a most then have tcg mini-game. I also think magic would need lots of completely different areas. Red (lava/volcano/hellish/orc area), Blue (Water/island/icey/dwarv area), green (forest/mountain/grassland/elv area), white (city/human/tranquil area), black (swampy/graveyard/undead area), then Neutral (prolly pvp area). And of these I would think that also instead of weps having the traditional upgrades like +5% damage to Undead, or 10% bonus healing, they would instead get +10% damage to "green" type monsters or +5% bonus damage from instant type spells.
Basically I think MTG could be an traditional MMO. But I would think it would also need some very magic specific things (Enviorment bonuses, huge areas named after there decks, matching set bonuses (you all know those cards that say for every x amount of elf cards in your graveyard this card gets +2 atk/def crap)) With spell cards already being ones that are instant (can use whenever), cooldown spells (cards that can be used only on your turn), and spell cards that need certain conditions to be meant to be played (like once the other person plays a spell card you can negate its effect) also known as passive spells imo.
Magic is far more mmoey then you might think. But would need the lure and content that rivals WoW to get its full effect of the magic universe. Not to mention in no way, shape, or form could the mmo be cartoony, or wowish looking. But more horror MMO looking/life like looking.
I would play a magic mmo, that is what i thought magic online was gonna be, but instead it turned out for another way for a greedy company to take money for nothing. i love magic and i love dnd, but i havent bought a single product of dnd since wotc took it over, mainly because i dont want the game to change every 6 months and have to go spend a thousand dollars on books. wotc had a chance to really make dnd online a kickass online game, instead they put it in eberron and made you play with a robot. welcome to dungeon and dragons meet final fantasy. on top of that all the books and old writers are being told to kill your books and characters cause we are sick of faerun, we want people to like eberron, and as long as faerun is there eberron will never take off, so they are gonna make people like eberron by leaving it the only world.
note: all of that is just my opinion, i have no factual evidence they wotc is trying to kill faerun but it sure seems like it to me when i read the novels and stuff.
now for a magic online game, a real one not a boardgame simulator.
i have a basic mold for it. when you start out as a level 1 planeswalker or whatever say you have ten cards to put in your deck. the cards in your deck are your spells and each one takes mana which is land. so in your packback you will have your deck which is your spellbook. the lands in your deck will give you so much mana in a mana pool that replenishes over time during combat. and you just casts the spells, spells take effect just like in any other game. as you level up and adventure you will find more cards to put into your deck and as you visit more lands you can get land cards to put in your deck. say you are a red wizard and you start out in red wizard land, you can have mountains, but then later you go visit the island out in the middle of the blue wizard sea, you can add islands, but that involves moving into other wizards territory and you could get pvped.
i think that could be a fairly good start to a game and make it a 3d adventure game not just a card game on the internet, but you keep the collectible card game format kind of still in it, and yes i would so play any real magic online game. i loved that little computer game they had way back then and i think if they wanted to make a true online game like that computer game was they would make way more money than they think(gotta feed the legendary wotc greed).
ps. sorry for the rant above, hope yall read the second part of the post, i just get angry whenever i think about what wotc is doing to dnd.
Did they ever get Leagues back into Magic Online? While I fully understand the need to get off the old limited original version of MtGO, there were a number of features that were put in the dumpster and have never returned. Leagues were one function I loved and played in quite a bit. Since the release of the 'upgrade' I've not spent a dime on MtGO. No Leagues, horrible graphics, many other issues.
I loved playing Magic back in the day, but it was when I had the disposable income to drop $100+ a month on it. If you don't spend that much either online or on paper then you can't stay with the game.
To the point of the article: Yes the Magic world does have enough meat to be made into an MMOish type game. Just please don't let Wizards do it!
why does when something is succesful it also has to be an mmorpg. lets first get good other mmorpgs, with the success of wow and then talk further then trying to force a ccg into a mmorpg. the magic players will feels its not ccg like enough and the mmorpg players will feel it is not mmorpg enough. disaster waiting to happen, dont do it.
oh and bring leagues back to mtg online, missing it! probably was too cheap a way to enjoy the game.
That's the last thing I need! I spent over $400 a month at one time playing Magic: the Gathering. A friend of mine even traded his car for 10 rare Magic: the Gathering cards at a pawn shop. He had to get another friend just to drive him home.
I'm seriously not kidding about that.
Though, I did manage to sell a hand-ful of common dragons to another friend of mine for $172. That was a nice steal.
How would a Magic: The Gathering MMORPG even work exactly?
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Well, there are free multiplayer roleplaying game which have MTG as theme: MUDs. Several ones.
Also there is MTGO. MTGO is having a lot of flaws, but in the end, if you like MTG, it's worth it. I play MTGO every now and then, am there in a clan where we host weekly tournaments, leagues and similiar which is fun.
I think the biggest problem with an MTG MMO would be, that it's impossible to keep up to date. And a few years after release, most newer players couldn't really connect to it, since they only know the newer cards.
Still, there is BattleForge.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Ice Age was the last expansion I played. I recently reinstalled Shandalar with the XP/Vista fix and am hooked. I'm not sure if I would play an MMO but I would definitely keep an eye on it. I just got tired of all the new rules they added with each expansion. I still have all my cards but am locked into only playing people who didn't move on from 1995.
I think you all are missing the big idea. He's not talking about the card game into an mmo...You have Magic Online for that.
I think he is saying the world/story/lore from the cards/books and turning that into a world we could play in.
I envision taking the role of a new adventurer traveling around seeking knowledge and power playing toward the endgame where you have to take on the Planeswalkers or Legendary dragons.
At least that is what I took away from the article.
The Magic the Gathering world and lore that Wizards of the Coast created is vast and deep, it would be a perfect setting of which to base an mmo.
Nice write up.
I would play it if there was a subscription fee and no cash shop and if all the cards in the game were available only by playing the game.
But...they wouldn't do it that way would they? No, just like the real world game they would want you to constantly buy new sets of cards. Only in a mmo it would probably be worse because they would likely deliberately make old cards obsolete so you would have to buy new ones and you couldn't just say "screw it" and keep playing with your friends with the old cards.
I checked out that online game they have and when I saw that in order to play I would have to re-buy vitual versions of all the cards I had already bought physcal version of I just laughed and mentally told them to go to hell.
It sounds nice in words, but Magic as a game is in my vision really only awesome as a card game, and the lore is just awesome to bask in, not to be an actual part of. Then there's the issue of you, the player, who is a Planeswalker in the game. I don't see this happening, and if it would happen, I'd pray to the gods that it better be real, real good.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I don't understand what you're talking about. I was talking about earning cards by playing the game (with a set subscription fee) as opposed to buying cards in a online store.
If you could explain to me why that would destory the economy, trade, and collecting part of the game maybe I could respond to your thoughts.
Isn't MTGO already a "MMO" (which seems to be a very loose term these days).
It's not an MMORPG. But it's definitely multiplayer, online and, depending on how you look at it, pretty massive.
Do we really need an RPG version of the game? MTG itself started out as a turn-based strategy variant of D&D. I don't think WoTC would want their successful CCG to compete for the RPG market with their already successful RPG.
I don't understand what you're talking about. I was talking about earning cards by playing the game (with a set subscription fee) as opposed to buying cards in a online store.
If you could explain to me why that would destory the economy, trade, and collecting part of the game maybe I could respond to your thoughts.
Sorry, I misunderstood you, I supposed you mean "play a subscription fee and get all cards for free instantly".
About playing the game to get cards: that's possible.
1) Just take part in tournaments, and there you go. If you are just an average player, you have, depending on the tournament, good chances to win stuff. If you are a good player, you can win loads and loads of stuff.
2) Also, you get free cards each month on mtgo anyway. Whenever you do stuff online, the game keeps track of that. The more active you are, the more bonus points you get (just for logging in you get some, for playing tournaments you get some more, for winning even more etc). At the end of each month, you get bonus cards for free depending on how active you were.
3) Also, there are bots and players giving free cards to newbies.
4) If you like trading, auction houses and similiar, you can also get cards for free if you are good at it.
5) And there are special events, where you can get bonus cards. Like when MTGO has it's annual birthday. Or last Halloween for example you just had to type into a thread "I want it" and you got some free stuff.
That's already 5 ways how to get cards for free on MTGO. And there is the option to pay money to buy boosters. I prefer all this stuff over a subsription fee any moment. I play MTGO now for 8 years. Get that, 8 years. The amount I'd have paid for subscription fees would be horrendous, and I'd feel pressed to play often. Without a subscription fee I can make a break for a month I too if I want to, without having to cancel any subscriptions and stuff, or I can play daily.
Also, some cards are online more expensive than their papery counterparts, but most are cheaper, because the competition among traders is higher (every mtgo player has access 24/7 to traders). You can get rares for like 5 cents already. You can get a deck that is powerful enough to participate in current tournaments for less than 20 bucks, and can create casual decks for just two or three bucks if you feel like it. Not to mention that you can tell WOTC to kill a set you have online, to send you the paper version. Cards online have a value. The system that is online, treating digital cards like paper cards, works and is successful. Changing it makes no sense. There is no reason why a digital version should be for free if a paper version is not. Many goods in our society exist only in virtual form and are still worth loads of money.
People shouting "they ain't real" are like people who saw a bank note for the first time, and say "but it's just colored paper! I stick to my gold nuggets!" Stuff is worth what people are paying. And people pay for digital stuff.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
I'd love to play an MTG MMO. I've put so much time and money into MTGO as is, they could charge $100 a month and it'd still be cheaper.
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Yeah, totally!
Lets turn MTG into Yu-Gi-Oh!
Wait a minute...
Honestly, I think it'd be interesting, but rather unnecessary. I've been playing the version they made for Xbox Live and thoroughly loving it, I really don't think they need to shove it into a 3D realm.
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As Danabus said about Mytheon but include how Wizard 101 does their card based style game, it could possibly be a magnificent bastard child to make MTG a possible MMO with many ways to play.
To be fair - there are few games that have taken part of the Magic concept and made more grahpical versions of it. Wizard101 has creatures and abilites played out in card form. Battleforge uses card style even tho there isn't really much more to it.
I dont know if I would play MTG type MMO. Basicly we are talking turn based gameplay and Im perfectly fine with that. But I would rather see it done in the Atlantica way of doing it. Or at least abit more graphical visuals than what Magic has to offer.
I highly doubt Hasbro would release the license to an outsider,they would have to remain in charge,that is why it would never be a good game.Even if they agreed to let someone make it ,while remaining in charge,it would most likely be a cash shop game.There is no way a good game could come of this unless a developer was allowed a solely owned license and this will never happen.Merchandising would be included in a license or i should say not, as Hasbro would never let an outsider make any profits off the game.
If we get back to the license,i could only imagine how costly a license would be just to use the material such as artwork and mechanics,it would most likely be an unrealistic number,so large nobody would pay it.You probably are now aware tha ti cannot stand Hasbro at all,any kind of deal with them would leave a developer in chains ,bound to some unfair contract,one witch Hasbro could never lose money and the developer could gain little or lose large.
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