Originally posted by heerobya Originally posted by Nizur
Originally posted by heerobya It's ok. ONE DAY, people will realize that no-holds barred FFA PvP always leads to the exact same things. 90% of the time - 1. Noobs being ganked by vets. 2. Noobs being griefed by vets. 3. Vets avoiding each other for fear of ACTUAL combat. 4. Vets helping each other do 1-3. 5. Vets forming massive parties to raid and do 1-3. and then [10% of the time - 1. Meaningful PvP for the actual "intended features" of territory control and building/taking over cities and such.
This has been true in UO, every server I played on, and I did a lot of all of it on Siege Perilous (trammel free) back in the day. It happens on PvP servers in WoW, every PvP server I have ever played on (Mug'Thol being primary) Aion, WAR PvP servers, AoC, even LOTRO monster play... (yes I have played all of these games) And of course it happens this exact way in EvE Online too (playing now, but canceled sub a few weeks ago) Show me a game with unrestricted PvP or even PvP faction servers that allow non-consensual PvP where this does not happen.
Do you have sources for your numbers or are you making things up as you go?
You must be a Republican. Arguing the OBVIOUSLY made up and exaggerated numbers that were engineered to make a point and completely ignoring the actual content of the message.
Nice try at an insult. I am not Republican, but thanks for playing. I did ignore the content because it's one person's perspective trying to be passed off as hard fact by using shit numbers.
Current: None Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
Originally posted by xpiher because its one of the few places a vet/solo player can go to pvp without worrying about getting zerged.
You mean because it's one of the few places they can go where they are guaranteed to win?
No, I meant exactly what I said. If you are solo, you can't hit any player city in the game anymore (at prime time) without having 20 people sent after you. Hell, SF, one of the best PvP alliances in the game has that problem difference is they send 10-15 people into a city and are greeted with 30.
Solo PvP is only really found at odd spots out in the wilderness or newbie lands. Its a sad fact of other people not being able to handle the loss of pixels.
I'm sorry I will NEVER believe a FFA PvP proponent who ever goes and intentionally ganks/griefs new players.
For one, you are stupid for chasing away new players coming into your game.
Secondly, you are a wuss that is completely afraid of death and get's nerd-rage when you get PK'd after you grinded soooo hard.
Third, it's pathetic to prey on the week and say that "you are simply role-playing the character) what a joke.
I love and I mean absolutely love factional PvP as long as there is more then two factions, and I absolutely love FFA PvP if it is done right, but it never has been done in a way where new players and veterans are on equal enough grounds for the experience to be ANYTHING but a serious of frustrations for the new player.
Trammel was the best thing to happen to UO.
You know what happened?
People could learn the game and have fun, then go to Felucca and PK become Reds and join in the 5 way Factional PvP warfare and you know what? They were SMART enough to leave Siege Perilous in the game, a server with no Trammel and the one that was one of the most popular and the server I played on the most because of it.
I disagree with OP with the poist of view he sees the things.
hes human in a medieval fantasy mmoRPG and he gets atttacked by orcs for example.Whats more natural for an orc than to attack a human kill him and skin him.
If he gets attacked by fellow humans in race enemies its what may happening also in rl life. You open a store the state steals u with taxes, other humans come to your store and rob it,beat u or shoot u and steal your money. You come back from the football ground other team's supporters grap you gang u up ,maybe steal u also.
Sandbox is all about that.Everyone has the choise to take up a role in the game. You can be a do gooder paladin like person, you could be a road bandit, you could be a ransom hunter avenging newbies that got ganged.. u can be anything and thats the magic in sandbox games in my opinion. Game is more adventourous adrenaline of the player rising ,we want these games to be around.
In practical terms u may believe u just got ganged. Or aybe no. You are aware that ppl may come all of a sudden and try gang u and steal u. So when u run onto goblins u keep an eye also for incoming possible enemies,try to stick near woods or places that may help u vanish and disapear if u get outnumbered.
Or you could try to party up with guildmates or friends to have aminimum dose of that safety fewling.
I love the fervency with which the Darkfall community defends their game. There are few communities which would actually defend the practice of newb ganking.
Did I not say that there were a few helpful people in Darkfall? I believe I was recounting my experience as a newbie, and you cannot tell me what I experienced is wrong, that I did this wrong, or that wrong, and that I "just didn't play the game right."
I thought this was a sandbox, at least from *my* experience many defend it viciously. You are right, this game isn't for me, and that is exactly why I don't go back. You were the one who said I'm painting the entire community as garbage, but yet you tell me to join a guild so that I can avoid all that I am experiencing now? That close group that you find is not the community *sir*. The community is race alliance, race, trade, that means EVERYBODY.
Don't tell me to join a guild, why should I? My experiences have proven to me what the community in Darkfall is like, despite the fact that many paint the community as a *WHOLE*, which you seem to avoid addressing.
I never generalized you, my OP addresses the community as a *WHOLE*, not joining a guild or playing with a close group of friends. This word is harsh for a newbie, and if any newbie has to go through what I did, he/she is going to assume the same points that I have assumed and quit, simple as that.
Make the assumptions/accusations about me, I won't follow that rabbit trail, and it doesn't change the experiences that I have encountered.
I'm not taking anything out of context, in fact xpiher and many others here say that I should put the "time" and "effort" into making my character pvp competetive. I have no problem with that whatsoever, I have no problem with getting ganked, but I have a problem with the FFA mindset because of the way people act through their characters in-game. This game does no wrong it seems, everything is perfect and dandy and if you can't deal with the cutthroat mentality that this game brings then EVERYTHING that happens to you is YOUR fault.
Which is why I said this thread goes to prove that you support this cutthroat mentality, as those who have defended this game also do, which is why I will never play another FFA game, unless there are SEVERE repercussions for griefers.
I love the fervency with which the Darkfall community defends their game. There are few communities which would actually defend the practice of newb ganking.
We aren't defending it, we are saying that its FFA PvP with out levels, of course you are going to die as a newb. And he wasn't getting grifed.
YOU WEREN"T GRIFED FFS. You were killed ALOT, but not grifed.
I love the fervency with which the Darkfall community defends their game. There are few communities which would actually defend the practice of newb ganking.
There's also very few games where you can get gold and items for ganking newbies. As pointed out, it happens in every ffa game. I consider it the price to pay for having the ability to kill whoever you want and take their stuff, the fun element of danger wherever you go, and the ability to work as a "force for good" when you're strong enough and raid people that gank newbies.
As the old saying goes, "There cannot be good without evil".
I love the fervency with which the Darkfall community defends their game. There are few communities which would actually defend the practice of newb ganking.
We aren't defending it, we are saying that its FFA PvP with out levels, of course you are going to die as a newb. And he wasn't getting grifed.
YOU WEREN"T GRIFED FFS. You were killed ALOT, but not grifed.
Skill based progression is still a progression between levels man.
Sword 0 and Sword 50 or whatever are still levels, even if they aren't clearly defined as such.
As long as there is a statistical difference between new player and veteran, the game has levels.
I don't think I should have to go through all of that to prove it to him. Look that the newbies that you guys shout down here on the forums, open your eyes. It's not that hard to see. Why do you think the developers at AV added newbie protection?
I love the fervency with which the Darkfall community defends their game. There are few communities which would actually defend the practice of newb ganking.
We aren't defending it, we are saying that its FFA PvP with out levels, of course you are going to die as a newb. And he wasn't getting grifed.
YOU WEREN"T GRIFED FFS. You were killed ALOT, but not grifed.
Skill based progression is still a progression between levels man. Sword 0 and Sword 50 or whatever are still levels, even if they aren't clearly defined as such. As long as there is a statistical difference between new player and veteran, the game has levels.
Difference is, you can't tell someone's skill level in darkfall at first glance. That was the point i was making.
You are right, I need to be looking for another game. I'm not really sure now why I keep going back and forth with him and the rest that argue that DF does no wrong.
ONE DAY, people will realize that no-holds barred FFA PvP always leads to the exact same things.
90% of the time -
1. Noobs being ganked by vets.
2. Noobs being griefed by vets.
3. Vets avoiding each other for fear of ACTUAL combat.
4. Vets helping each other do 1-3.
5. Vets forming massive parties to raid and do 1-3.
and then [10% of the time -
1. Meaningful PvP for the actual "intended features" of territory control and building/taking over cities and such.
This has been true in UO, every server I played on, and I did a lot of all of it on Siege Perilous (trammel free) back in the day.
It happens on PvP servers in WoW, every PvP server I have ever played on (Mug'Thol being primary)
Aion, WAR PvP servers, AoC, even LOTRO monster play... (yes I have played all of these games)
And of course it happens this exact way in EvE Online too (playing now, but canceled sub a few weeks ago)
Show me a game with unrestricted PvP or even PvP faction servers that allow non-consensual PvP where this does not happen.
Do you have sources for your numbers or are you making things up as you go?
Replace 90% with "majority" and 10% with "minority" and I think the point is made.
The sad thing is that, in my experience, the people who go into those lowbie areas to gank lowbies do not represent the "norm" in the game. Most of the players *are* actually off playing the game for that "10%" he mentions.
Unfortunately, when a newer player starts out, they can only go on the impression they're given... and the first impression they're given is that there's a bunch of assholes with nothing better to do than gank lowbies.
Not everyone comes to FFA PvP for the first time knowing full well what to expect... they expect that other players can attack them at any time. They don't necessarily realize it means much more powerful players killing them for cheap thrills when they're still trying to get their bearings.
This comes back to something I"ve always said... if you're trying to maintain or attract a better population to your game, you should endeavor to make the newbie experience as "hassle-free" as possible. Let them get used to the game and get a positive impression of it. Even Shadowbane, which was, arguably, more hostile than DF, allowed the first 20 levels in a non PvP zone so players could get the hang of the game without being harassed, etc.
Of course, the *true* griefer type doesn't care about the long-term welfare of the game, or of seeing the population increase. All they care about is getting their cheap thrills *now*, and if it makes a person quit... all the more a feather in their cap. They pride themselves on making new players - what a MMO *needs* to go grow and sustain - quit. And people defend this as a good thing. They really are a nuisance to the game, even from a PvP'er perspective.
The players in L2 started going to the newbie areas to deal with the griefers, because they *wanted* new people in the game to stick around, and didn't *want* the griefers running them off... Even though they had previously defended the griefing/ganking as "part of FFA PvP" as well, just like DF players do now, L2 players eventually realized the distinction and started dealing with it themselves. Yes... avid PvP'ers in an open PvP MMO actually acknowledged that no, new players should not have to deal with that, and then taking matters into their own hands to deal with it. It actually can happen. I wonder how long it will take for DF players to make that distinction and not defend pointless ganking.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
ONE DAY, people will realize that no-holds barred FFA PvP always leads to the exact same things.
90% of the time -
1. Noobs being ganked by vets.
2. Noobs being griefed by vets.
3. Vets avoiding each other for fear of ACTUAL combat.
4. Vets helping each other do 1-3.
5. Vets forming massive parties to raid and do 1-3.
and then [10% of the time -
1. Meaningful PvP for the actual "intended features" of territory control and building/taking over cities and such.
This has been true in UO, every server I played on, and I did a lot of all of it on Siege Perilous (trammel free) back in the day.
It happens on PvP servers in WoW, every PvP server I have ever played on (Mug'Thol being primary)
Aion, WAR PvP servers, AoC, even LOTRO monster play... (yes I have played all of these games)
And of course it happens this exact way in EvE Online too (playing now, but canceled sub a few weeks ago)
Show me a game with unrestricted PvP or even PvP faction servers that allow non-consensual PvP where this does not happen.
Do you have sources for your numbers or are you making things up as you go?
Replace 90% with "majority" and 10% with "minority" and I think the point is made.
The sad thing is that, in my experience, the people who go into those lowbie areas to gank lowbies do not represent the "norm" in the game. Most of the players *are* actually off playing the game for that "10%" he mentions.
Unfortunately, when a newer player starts out, they can only go on the impression they're given... and the first impression they're given is that there's a bunch of assholes with nothing better to do than gank lowbies.
Not everyone comes to FFA PvP knowing full well what to expect.
This comes back to something I"ve always said... if you're trying to maintain or attract a better population to your game, you should endeavor to make the newbie experience as "hassle-free" as possible. Let them get used to the game and get a positive impression of it. Even Shadowbane, which was, arguably, more hostile than DF, allowed the first 20 levels in a non PvP zone so players could get the hang of the game without being harassed, etc.
Of course, the *true* griefer type doesn't care about the long-term welfare of the game, or of seeing the population increase. All they care about is getting their cheap thrills *now*, and if it makes a person quit... all the more a feather in their cap. They pride themselves on making new players - what a MMO *needs* to go grow and sustain - quit. And people defend this as a good thing. They really are a nuisance to the game, even from a PvP'er perspective.
The players in L2 started going to the newbie areas to deal with the griefers, because they *wanted* new people in the game to stick around, and didn't *want* the griefers running them off... Even though they had previously defended the griefing/ganking as "part of FFA PvP" as well, just like DF players do now, L2 players eventually realized the distinction and started dealing with it themselves. Yes... avid PvP'ers in an open PvP MMO actually acknowledged that no, new players should not have to deal with that, and then taking matters into their own hands to deal with it. It actually can happen. I wonder how long it will take for DF players to make that distinction and not defend pointless ganking.
We already deal with it. Thats what the guild NEW is for
One day the "hardcore" FFA PvP proponents will realize that THEY are the ones that are keeping their games in the realm of indy or straight up joke....
not the newbs who are INTERESTED in the concept before they are scared away by the vets.
We already deal with it. Thats what the guild NEW is for
I was in NEW. Nice idea in theory. Didn't really pan out quite the way they intended. I was ganked more as a NEW player than as an untagged player. Several times there were groups who would roll into the city and start ganking people. Some honored the whole "don't attack someone in NEW" pact... But, it was by no means much of an improvement over any other situation.
The griefers I'm talking about are the types who would see NEW as a giant "kill me.. please" sign. Not only are you new to the game, you're advertising it... and you're exactly the kind of player they're looking for... an easy kill to help inflate their feeble ego.
Oh.. and on a few occasions when someone mentioned being ganked b someone... despite being in NEW... and mentioned it in clan chat... Know what the response was? "It's a FFA PvP game. Get used to it"....
Know what the response to a similar situation in L2 was if you were a new player? "Where are you... we're on the way".
In terms of distinguishing PvP from pointless ganking... seems some in DF still have a ways to go.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Did I not say that there were a few helpful people in Darkfall? I believe I was recounting my experience as a newbie, and you cannot tell me what I experienced is wrong, that I did this wrong, or that wrong, and that I "just didn't play the game right." I thought this was a sandbox, at least from *my* experience many defend it viciously. You are right, this game isn't for me, and that is exactly why I don't go back. You were the one who said I'm painting the entire community as garbage, but yet you tell me to join a guild so that I can avoid all that I am experiencing now? That close group that you find is not the community *sir*. The community is race alliance, race, trade, that means EVERYBODY. Don't tell me to join a guild, why should I? My experiences have proven to me what the community in Darkfall is like, despite the fact that many paint the community as a *WHOLE*, which you seem to avoid addressing. I never generalized you, my OP addresses the community as a *WHOLE*, not joining a guild or playing with a close group of friends. This word is harsh for a newbie, and if any newbie has to go through what I did, he/she is going to assume the same points that I have assumed and quit, simple as that. Make the assumptions/accusations about me, I won't follow that rabbit trail, and it doesn't change the experiences that I have encountered. I'm not taking anything out of context, in fact xpiher and many others here say that I should put the "time" and "effort" into making my character pvp competetive. I have no problem with that whatsoever, I have no problem with getting ganked, but I have a problem with the FFA mindset because of the way people act through their characters in-game. This game does no wrong it seems, everything is perfect and dandy and if you can't deal with the cutthroat mentality that this game brings then EVERYTHING that happens to you is YOUR fault. Which is why I said this thread goes to prove that you support this cutthroat mentality, as those who have defended this game also do, which is why I will never play another FFA game, unless there are SEVERE repercussions for griefers.
1. No, you did not say in your original post, that there were helpful people in this you community. In your own words, you stated that Darkfall has a "Terrible in-game community." You did NOT say that there were still good people within that community. You did NOT say that you had come across some or all of these good people. YOU painted every last one of us with your very first comment...that being your title.
2. This is a sandbox, which means the players make the rules. Again, you wish to enforce your "standards and virtues" on a community that doesn't agree with them. That is our right to do so just as it is your right to leave the game when that does not happen.
3. At what point in time did I force you to read /race alliance, /race or /trade. YOU have the option of turning that off...it's what the little "x" in the tab is for. You have chosen to walk into the hornets' nest and now you are complaining that you are being stung. Fire and matches, "sir," fire and matches.
4. Again, your narrow-sighted attitude rears its ugly head. Your "experience" is based off a limited exposure to the community of Darkfall. Again, I refer straight back to the title of this thread. YOU are the one with the paintbrush, not I.
5. You did indeed generalize me. I have not done the same with you. You make ASSUMPTIONS yet again that are based off nothing but your own experiences. Once again, how can you possibly state that your conclusions speak for every other newbie when you are ASSUMING that you know what EVERY OTHER NOOB has experienced! That very thought destroys any and all arguments that you set forth because you speak for those that you can possibly speak for and claim it to be "gospel."
6. I, on the other hand, have made no assumptions whatsoever. I have taken your words in the context that you have presented them and offered my opinion...a right that I have. You, on the other hand, continue to assume things (again, your words, not mine) and then fault me for pointing out where your assumptions are flawed because they are just that...ASSUMPTIONS.
7. You just contradicted yourself. You said that you have no problems with being killed and ganked and yet that is the very thing that you are complaining about. Something that comes to mind is to wonder precisely how many FFA PvP MMO's you have played and why you still continue to look for them? Obviously, if you have played enough to create your opinions then you knew full well what to expect when you started to play Darkfall. To now complain that it is "just like every other FFA PvP MMO" shows that not only did you come to Darkfall with a preconceived notion, you are now complaining about that very thing that (by your own words) you should have expected!
8. Finally, why are you still here? You have attempted to make your point and closed your ears to any counter discussion presented. It goes right back to the Sandbox comment. A sandbox means the players make the rules and you either live within that structure (which I have chosen to do) or you leave and look for something else (which you claim to be doing.)
You are right, I need to be looking for another game. I'm not really sure now why I keep going back and forth with him and the rest that argue that DF does no wrong. Please just lock it up mods.
No no...you opened this up with your initial post. It was you that opened up Pandora's box and now you must deal with the consequences. Just because you don't like how this is going doesn't give you the right to silence others.
Once again, you are trying to force your "values and standards" upon us and then wish to run and hide when you can not do so.
1. No, you did not say in your original post, that there were helpful people in this you community. In your own words, you stated that Darkfall has a "Terrible in-game community." You did NOT say that there were still good people within that community. You did NOT say that you had come across some or all of these good people. YOU painted every last one of us with your very first comment...that being your title.
Actually, yes he did. You need to read more thoroughly... The following is the first paragraph of the OP... key point highlighted in blue:
"So I decided to do a wipe on my old 3 month character, start fresh with a human in Monkfield. Everybody claims how great this in-game community is versus the forums. Well folks, I'm here to tell you that it isn't. Now I realize that there are helpful people in this game, that's absolutely great. I've ran into maybe 3 people that were helpful or nice, the rest? Scum, people who have been playing for at least 2+ months or more preying on other newbies in goblin, warrior skeleton, and troll spawns. Just the other day, I had three mounted reds, in plate, one had an acid r30 blade, gang up on me in a kobold spawn. I fought as hard as I could, while evading them. Of course I die, not quickly, but I die eventually after bringing all of their mounts and one other guy to half health."
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The community really -is- the worst I have seen in an MMO and I do play DFO (right now as I type actually...i'm mining). It's horrible. I can only think of two reasons why: 1) a lot of young kids playing who, ironically, know of a hardcore MMO besides WoW , or, 2) since it is a PvP game it makes sense to try and piss someone off over the net. But for me, internet fighting is pointless and never bothers me. If I decide to partake in it from someone it is only because I am bored. I'm not going to let someone I don't know, over the internet, piss me off. But yes...worst ever. Best ever? It's a tie between Eve and Fallen Earth. No joking there...both have great, GREAT, communities....
One day the "hardcore" FFA PvP proponents will realize that THEY are the ones that are keeping their games in the realm of indy or straight up joke.... not the newbs who are INTERESTED in the concept before they are scared away by the vets.
You might have a point if it weren't for the fact everyone playing a FFA PVP game, started out as a "newb". Yet carried on to become vets themselves. They didn't get disheartened by the fact that people will kill you, and for no reason or gain what-so-ever. You want to know why? They learned that soloing is the wrong approach, and learned the value of making friends.
This is why community has vanished from the modern MMO. Be it FFA PVP or hardcore PVE (EQ1) older games made you rely on the players around you for survival. Creating tighter communities, and smarter players.
In eq1 a good friend could mean the difference between XP and a corpse run. In UO or a game like DF a good friend can mean the difference between having equipment and not having it. If you're alone you're prey, learn from this and you can find some very interesting game-play as well as politics in games like DF or EVE.
It basically boils down to the age old saying of, "the strong survive, and the weak..well... they rage quit". I don't even mean that to say FFA players are a breed above average gamers (or anything like that). I say that to mean there is strength in numbers, take advantage of it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Do you have sources for your numbers or are you making things up as you go?
You must be a Republican. Arguing the OBVIOUSLY made up and exaggerated numbers that were engineered to make a point and completely ignoring the actual content of the message.
Nice try at an insult. I am not Republican, but thanks for playing. I did ignore the content because it's one person's perspective trying to be passed off as hard fact by using shit numbers.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
You mean because it's one of the few places they can go where they are guaranteed to win?
No, I meant exactly what I said. If you are solo, you can't hit any player city in the game anymore (at prime time) without having 20 people sent after you. Hell, SF, one of the best PvP alliances in the game has that problem difference is they send 10-15 people into a city and are greeted with 30.
Solo PvP is only really found at odd spots out in the wilderness or newbie lands. Its a sad fact of other people not being able to handle the loss of pixels.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I'm sorry I will NEVER believe a FFA PvP proponent who ever goes and intentionally ganks/griefs new players.
For one, you are stupid for chasing away new players coming into your game.
Secondly, you are a wuss that is completely afraid of death and get's nerd-rage when you get PK'd after you grinded soooo hard.
Third, it's pathetic to prey on the week and say that "you are simply role-playing the character) what a joke.
I love and I mean absolutely love factional PvP as long as there is more then two factions, and I absolutely love FFA PvP if it is done right, but it never has been done in a way where new players and veterans are on equal enough grounds for the experience to be ANYTHING but a serious of frustrations for the new player.
Trammel was the best thing to happen to UO.
You know what happened?
People could learn the game and have fun, then go to Felucca and PK become Reds and join in the 5 way Factional PvP warfare and you know what? They were SMART enough to leave Siege Perilous in the game, a server with no Trammel and the one that was one of the most popular and the server I played on the most because of it.
I disagree with OP with the poist of view he sees the things.
hes human in a medieval fantasy mmoRPG and he gets atttacked by orcs for example.Whats more natural for an orc than to attack a human kill him and skin him.
If he gets attacked by fellow humans in race enemies its what may happening also in rl life. You open a store the state steals u with taxes, other humans come to your store and rob it,beat u or shoot u and steal your money. You come back from the football ground other team's supporters grap you gang u up ,maybe steal u also.
Sandbox is all about that.Everyone has the choise to take up a role in the game. You can be a do gooder paladin like person, you could be a road bandit, you could be a ransom hunter avenging newbies that got ganged.. u can be anything and thats the magic in sandbox games in my opinion. Game is more adventourous adrenaline of the player rising ,we want these games to be around.
In practical terms u may believe u just got ganged. Or aybe no. You are aware that ppl may come all of a sudden and try gang u and steal u. So when u run onto goblins u keep an eye also for incoming possible enemies,try to stick near woods or places that may help u vanish and disapear if u get outnumbered.
Or you could try to party up with guildmates or friends to have aminimum dose of that safety fewling.
Let's keep this thread within the rules of this site or we'll have to lock it. Keep it constructive and civil.
I love the fervency with which the Darkfall community defends their game. There are few communities which would actually defend the practice of newb ganking.
Did I not say that there were a few helpful people in Darkfall? I believe I was recounting my experience as a newbie, and you cannot tell me what I experienced is wrong, that I did this wrong, or that wrong, and that I "just didn't play the game right."
I thought this was a sandbox, at least from *my* experience many defend it viciously. You are right, this game isn't for me, and that is exactly why I don't go back. You were the one who said I'm painting the entire community as garbage, but yet you tell me to join a guild so that I can avoid all that I am experiencing now? That close group that you find is not the community *sir*. The community is race alliance, race, trade, that means EVERYBODY.
Don't tell me to join a guild, why should I? My experiences have proven to me what the community in Darkfall is like, despite the fact that many paint the community as a *WHOLE*, which you seem to avoid addressing.
I never generalized you, my OP addresses the community as a *WHOLE*, not joining a guild or playing with a close group of friends. This word is harsh for a newbie, and if any newbie has to go through what I did, he/she is going to assume the same points that I have assumed and quit, simple as that.
Make the assumptions/accusations about me, I won't follow that rabbit trail, and it doesn't change the experiences that I have encountered.
I'm not taking anything out of context, in fact xpiher and many others here say that I should put the "time" and "effort" into making my character pvp competetive. I have no problem with that whatsoever, I have no problem with getting ganked, but I have a problem with the FFA mindset because of the way people act through their characters in-game. This game does no wrong it seems, everything is perfect and dandy and if you can't deal with the cutthroat mentality that this game brings then EVERYTHING that happens to you is YOUR fault.
Which is why I said this thread goes to prove that you support this cutthroat mentality, as those who have defended this game also do, which is why I will never play another FFA game, unless there are SEVERE repercussions for griefers.
Will be updated later.
We aren't defending it, we are saying that its FFA PvP with out levels, of course you are going to die as a newb. And he wasn't getting grifed.
YOU WEREN"T GRIFED FFS. You were killed ALOT, but not grifed.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
There's also very few games where you can get gold and items for ganking newbies. As pointed out, it happens in every ffa game. I consider it the price to pay for having the ability to kill whoever you want and take their stuff, the fun element of danger wherever you go, and the ability to work as a "force for good" when you're strong enough and raid people that gank newbies.
As the old saying goes, "There cannot be good without evil".
It's like talking to a brick wall, I should fraps a week in Darkfall just to show you what the life a newbie is like.
Will be updated later.
We aren't defending it, we are saying that its FFA PvP with out levels, of course you are going to die as a newb. And he wasn't getting grifed.
YOU WEREN"T GRIFED FFS. You were killed ALOT, but not grifed.
Skill based progression is still a progression between levels man.
Sword 0 and Sword 50 or whatever are still levels, even if they aren't clearly defined as such.
As long as there is a statistical difference between new player and veteran, the game has levels.
Please do. I'm curious as to why you're being followed around and griefed for three days.
Current: None
Played: WoW, CoX, SWG, LotRO, EVE, AoC, VG, CO, Ryzom, DF, WAR
Tried: Lineage2, Dofus, EQ2, CoS, FE, UO, Wurm, Wakfu
Future: The Repopulation, ArcheAge, Black Desert, EQN
I think you'd be better off spending some time looking for a new game. Didn't you say many posts back that you wanted a mod to lock this thread?
I don't think I should have to go through all of that to prove it to him. Look that the newbies that you guys shout down here on the forums, open your eyes. It's not that hard to see. Why do you think the developers at AV added newbie protection?
Will be updated later.
Difference is, you can't tell someone's skill level in darkfall at first glance. That was the point i was making.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
You are right, I need to be looking for another game. I'm not really sure now why I keep going back and forth with him and the rest that argue that DF does no wrong.
Please just lock it up mods.
Will be updated later.
Do you have sources for your numbers or are you making things up as you go?
Replace 90% with "majority" and 10% with "minority" and I think the point is made.
The sad thing is that, in my experience, the people who go into those lowbie areas to gank lowbies do not represent the "norm" in the game. Most of the players *are* actually off playing the game for that "10%" he mentions.
Unfortunately, when a newer player starts out, they can only go on the impression they're given... and the first impression they're given is that there's a bunch of assholes with nothing better to do than gank lowbies.
Not everyone comes to FFA PvP for the first time knowing full well what to expect... they expect that other players can attack them at any time. They don't necessarily realize it means much more powerful players killing them for cheap thrills when they're still trying to get their bearings.
This comes back to something I"ve always said... if you're trying to maintain or attract a better population to your game, you should endeavor to make the newbie experience as "hassle-free" as possible. Let them get used to the game and get a positive impression of it. Even Shadowbane, which was, arguably, more hostile than DF, allowed the first 20 levels in a non PvP zone so players could get the hang of the game without being harassed, etc.
Of course, the *true* griefer type doesn't care about the long-term welfare of the game, or of seeing the population increase. All they care about is getting their cheap thrills *now*, and if it makes a person quit... all the more a feather in their cap. They pride themselves on making new players - what a MMO *needs* to go grow and sustain - quit. And people defend this as a good thing. They really are a nuisance to the game, even from a PvP'er perspective.
The players in L2 started going to the newbie areas to deal with the griefers, because they *wanted* new people in the game to stick around, and didn't *want* the griefers running them off... Even though they had previously defended the griefing/ganking as "part of FFA PvP" as well, just like DF players do now, L2 players eventually realized the distinction and started dealing with it themselves. Yes... avid PvP'ers in an open PvP MMO actually acknowledged that no, new players should not have to deal with that, and then taking matters into their own hands to deal with it. It actually can happen. I wonder how long it will take for DF players to make that distinction and not defend pointless ganking.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Do you have sources for your numbers or are you making things up as you go?
Replace 90% with "majority" and 10% with "minority" and I think the point is made.
The sad thing is that, in my experience, the people who go into those lowbie areas to gank lowbies do not represent the "norm" in the game. Most of the players *are* actually off playing the game for that "10%" he mentions.
Unfortunately, when a newer player starts out, they can only go on the impression they're given... and the first impression they're given is that there's a bunch of assholes with nothing better to do than gank lowbies.
Not everyone comes to FFA PvP knowing full well what to expect.
This comes back to something I"ve always said... if you're trying to maintain or attract a better population to your game, you should endeavor to make the newbie experience as "hassle-free" as possible. Let them get used to the game and get a positive impression of it. Even Shadowbane, which was, arguably, more hostile than DF, allowed the first 20 levels in a non PvP zone so players could get the hang of the game without being harassed, etc.
Of course, the *true* griefer type doesn't care about the long-term welfare of the game, or of seeing the population increase. All they care about is getting their cheap thrills *now*, and if it makes a person quit... all the more a feather in their cap. They pride themselves on making new players - what a MMO *needs* to go grow and sustain - quit. And people defend this as a good thing. They really are a nuisance to the game, even from a PvP'er perspective.
The players in L2 started going to the newbie areas to deal with the griefers, because they *wanted* new people in the game to stick around, and didn't *want* the griefers running them off... Even though they had previously defended the griefing/ganking as "part of FFA PvP" as well, just like DF players do now, L2 players eventually realized the distinction and started dealing with it themselves. Yes... avid PvP'ers in an open PvP MMO actually acknowledged that no, new players should not have to deal with that, and then taking matters into their own hands to deal with it. It actually can happen. I wonder how long it will take for DF players to make that distinction and not defend pointless ganking.
We already deal with it. Thats what the guild NEW is for
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
WSIMike +1
Well put sir.
One day the "hardcore" FFA PvP proponents will realize that THEY are the ones that are keeping their games in the realm of indy or straight up joke....
not the newbs who are INTERESTED in the concept before they are scared away by the vets.
We already deal with it. Thats what the guild NEW is for
I was in NEW. Nice idea in theory. Didn't really pan out quite the way they intended. I was ganked more as a NEW player than as an untagged player. Several times there were groups who would roll into the city and start ganking people. Some honored the whole "don't attack someone in NEW" pact... But, it was by no means much of an improvement over any other situation.
The griefers I'm talking about are the types who would see NEW as a giant "kill me.. please" sign. Not only are you new to the game, you're advertising it... and you're exactly the kind of player they're looking for... an easy kill to help inflate their feeble ego.
Oh.. and on a few occasions when someone mentioned being ganked b someone... despite being in NEW... and mentioned it in clan chat... Know what the response was? "It's a FFA PvP game. Get used to it"....
Know what the response to a similar situation in L2 was if you were a new player? "Where are you... we're on the way".
In terms of distinguishing PvP from pointless ganking... seems some in DF still have a ways to go.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
1. No, you did not say in your original post, that there were helpful people in this you community. In your own words, you stated that Darkfall has a "Terrible in-game community." You did NOT say that there were still good people within that community. You did NOT say that you had come across some or all of these good people. YOU painted every last one of us with your very first comment...that being your title.
2. This is a sandbox, which means the players make the rules. Again, you wish to enforce your "standards and virtues" on a community that doesn't agree with them. That is our right to do so just as it is your right to leave the game when that does not happen.
3. At what point in time did I force you to read /race alliance, /race or /trade. YOU have the option of turning that off...it's what the little "x" in the tab is for. You have chosen to walk into the hornets' nest and now you are complaining that you are being stung. Fire and matches, "sir," fire and matches.
4. Again, your narrow-sighted attitude rears its ugly head. Your "experience" is based off a limited exposure to the community of Darkfall. Again, I refer straight back to the title of this thread. YOU are the one with the paintbrush, not I.
5. You did indeed generalize me. I have not done the same with you. You make ASSUMPTIONS yet again that are based off nothing but your own experiences. Once again, how can you possibly state that your conclusions speak for every other newbie when you are ASSUMING that you know what EVERY OTHER NOOB has experienced! That very thought destroys any and all arguments that you set forth because you speak for those that you can possibly speak for and claim it to be "gospel."
6. I, on the other hand, have made no assumptions whatsoever. I have taken your words in the context that you have presented them and offered my opinion...a right that I have. You, on the other hand, continue to assume things (again, your words, not mine) and then fault me for pointing out where your assumptions are flawed because they are just that...ASSUMPTIONS.
7. You just contradicted yourself. You said that you have no problems with being killed and ganked and yet that is the very thing that you are complaining about. Something that comes to mind is to wonder precisely how many FFA PvP MMO's you have played and why you still continue to look for them? Obviously, if you have played enough to create your opinions then you knew full well what to expect when you started to play Darkfall. To now complain that it is "just like every other FFA PvP MMO" shows that not only did you come to Darkfall with a preconceived notion, you are now complaining about that very thing that (by your own words) you should have expected!
8. Finally, why are you still here? You have attempted to make your point and closed your ears to any counter discussion presented. It goes right back to the Sandbox comment. A sandbox means the players make the rules and you either live within that structure (which I have chosen to do) or you leave and look for something else (which you claim to be doing.)
No no...you opened this up with your initial post. It was you that opened up Pandora's box and now you must deal with the consequences. Just because you don't like how this is going doesn't give you the right to silence others.
Once again, you are trying to force your "values and standards" upon us and then wish to run and hide when you can not do so.
1. No, you did not say in your original post, that there were helpful people in this you community. In your own words, you stated that Darkfall has a "Terrible in-game community." You did NOT say that there were still good people within that community. You did NOT say that you had come across some or all of these good people. YOU painted every last one of us with your very first comment...that being your title.
Actually, yes he did. You need to read more thoroughly... The following is the first paragraph of the OP... key point highlighted in blue:
"So I decided to do a wipe on my old 3 month character, start fresh with a human in Monkfield. Everybody claims how great this in-game community is versus the forums. Well folks, I'm here to tell you that it isn't. Now I realize that there are helpful people in this game, that's absolutely great. I've ran into maybe 3 people that were helpful or nice, the rest? Scum, people who have been playing for at least 2+ months or more preying on other newbies in goblin, warrior skeleton, and troll spawns. Just the other day, I had three mounted reds, in plate, one had an acid r30 blade, gang up on me in a kobold spawn. I fought as hard as I could, while evading them. Of course I die, not quickly, but I die eventually after bringing all of their mounts and one other guy to half health."
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The community really -is- the worst I have seen in an MMO and I do play DFO (right now as I type actually...i'm mining). It's horrible. I can only think of two reasons why: 1) a lot of young kids playing who, ironically, know of a hardcore MMO besides WoW , or, 2) since it is a PvP game it makes sense to try and piss someone off over the net. But for me, internet fighting is pointless and never bothers me. If I decide to partake in it from someone it is only because I am bored. I'm not going to let someone I don't know, over the internet, piss me off. But yes...worst ever. Best ever? It's a tie between Eve and Fallen Earth. No joking there...both have great, GREAT, communities....
You might have a point if it weren't for the fact everyone playing a FFA PVP game, started out as a "newb". Yet carried on to become vets themselves. They didn't get disheartened by the fact that people will kill you, and for no reason or gain what-so-ever. You want to know why? They learned that soloing is the wrong approach, and learned the value of making friends.
This is why community has vanished from the modern MMO. Be it FFA PVP or hardcore PVE (EQ1) older games made you rely on the players around you for survival. Creating tighter communities, and smarter players.
In eq1 a good friend could mean the difference between XP and a corpse run. In UO or a game like DF a good friend can mean the difference between having equipment and not having it. If you're alone you're prey, learn from this and you can find some very interesting game-play as well as politics in games like DF or EVE.
It basically boils down to the age old saying of, "the strong survive, and the weak..well... they rage quit". I don't even mean that to say FFA players are a breed above average gamers (or anything like that). I say that to mean there is strength in numbers, take advantage of it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson