Of course there's racism in MMORPG's. And there SHOULD be. Every sane person hates dorfs like the plague. And halflings. Oh, and gnomes. Not to mention those pesky elves. Come to think of it, ALL the lesser races pretty much stink. :P
I don't see why we all have to get along. It is not possible. Doesn't mean we have to hate each other but a world with everybody holding hands is a fantasy land. As long as there are people on this planet we will find a reason not to get along with someone.
I don't think being uncomfortable around different people is racist outright hatred of them is. There are plenty of reasons to despise most people without going anywhere near their race. Probably 70% of the people I meet are oxygen thieves that should be charged with aggravated stupidity and impersonating a human being. I have never not hung around someone due to race I do go out of my way to avoid people who drink, smoke or do drugs.
I remember whe Star Wars Galaxies was newly released. I played a Zabrak on the Empire's side. It took alot more faction points to get an AT-AT (forget all the names of Star Wars equipment) pet than a human character needed to get the same pet.. It was plain and obvious that the Empire had a racist agenda.
Barring that it was all in the story line or the Star Wars Universe, my question in the title of this thread is simply that, a question. Has anyone else ran across racism in MMORPG's and if so, what way?
I recall, in SWG, some folks RP-ing racism, as well. Whether that was right or not, I always considered to be a case by case basis. If you're following another player around spewing hate speech, I'd consider it griefing. If you mutter SW related racial epithets in the starbase("Filthy wookies leaving their flea ridden fur all over the ticket console... shouldn't be allowed near the station"), which then leads to a duel, that's roleplay.
As far as whether it's acceptable to go there, I guess I'd say it's up to the service itself, but it should made clear in the ToS.
In DAOC Mordred I was a member of an all Kobold guild called Shadowclan, and we were heavy role players. As such, we viciously attacked (or demanded tribute) from any non-kobold player.
In EVE there are people who regularly roleplay Minmitar and kill all Amarr characters as part of roleplaying and won't let them join their corp.
So yes, by design, racism exists, but not in the real world sense.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just skipped passed all the posts to post here...so maybe someone else has posted on this but;
Just last night as I was gearing up to gank another rogue he started "/Yelling" out N * * GA at my toon.
Now I'm not sure how the hordes know the combination of words to type but I've seen this before, and I know if I was a person who takes offense to this it would really had pissed me off.
Anyhow, I never got to gank him because he ran away like a lil punk...and he was only 1 lvl under me (60).
So yeah...that's pretty much the only racist thing I've encountered in an MMO, but heck, who cares, its not like you will ever meet the person, and someone like that may just be too ignorant to even waste time thinking about much less to get upset at imo.
In AoC there is RP racism, because it fits in with the lore... I RP a Cimmerian character, and the only players I kill just to kill are Stygians, simply because it fits our RPing...
I'll bite. What is it about Stygians that makes you want to kill them all? Every one of them being unexceptionable because? What do you gain by killing them, or lose by not killing them?
Why do you do what you're told?
Okay, so this will sound weird/lame/extremely nerdy...but...
In Conan lore, Stygians are loyal to the god Set...Set is considered an Arch Demon to the Hyborian kingdoms, and Set usually has cults of evil sorcerers who sacrifice the innocent to please their god...
While RPing in AoC, we have made the Cult of Set our enemy...this includes all Stygians...Now I didn't say I kill EVERY Stygian, and I don't gank lowbie Stygians, but I do kill Stygians when I'm with my fellow RPers...and sometimes when I'm alone and feel like getting into some random PvP...
We only gain RP satisfaction by killing them, and lose nothing by not killing them...
and I'm only doing what the lore is telling us to do...kinda...it sounds kinda lame now that I'm having to explain it, but it's just RP...that's just something that we do...weird lore-based stuff...
Been there, done that. WOW 'Horde vs Alliance' bs. Personally- I gave that up real quick. Having played Shadowbane before we got to go up against a huge guild- biggest on the server- took 3 guilds allying to 'stand against them', and even then it was internal politics that destroyed them in the end. Anyway, their motto was about ganking newbs and controlling the best rune drop areas. They posted patrols and would KOS you if you tried to fight a rune-drop boss.
Needless to say- we hated them- especially since they were weaseling alts into our guilds & so forth & bs. We organized leveling parties for newbs where we covered their backs, and KOS any of that guild.
Point is- we didn't need any 'imaginary reason' to PvP. Jerkwads often gave us good reasons. Man- I could make a list. Anyway, after that, following 'Lore' without cause or effect seemed... well, silly. Once I thought about it anyway.
So in WoW I started not killing the opposing faction. I'd see then, wave, and go back to my quest/whatever. If they left me alone- so be it- if not, well- let's just say I get left alone more often than not, and could PvP well enough. Some people got to be almost 'friendly'. Other players I thought might've been cool to meet- except you can't talk due to 'Lore BS'- so there's half the gamer population cut off due to bs. 'We don't like players who picked the 'wrong' side to be on back when they started.' one might say.
I 'Role Play' someone who doesn't blindly do everything they're told.
See, you are making it seem like I am doing what some other player is telling me...and if I was, who gives a damn, right?
I will admit, I do what is set into the lore...Stygians are steeped in dark sorcery and mysticism, and Cimmerians are far too superstitious to get involved in such business believing it is the right of no man to dwell in sorcery...
...but that is why I play a game with such a rich lore...a lore that I was a fan of before the game came out...
I play LotRO to RP because I love the lore, and I play AoC to RP for the same reason, there just happens to be real PvP in AoC...
I am a Roleplayer...it is what I like to do...I am a pretty hardcore Roleplayer...it's a lot of fun for me...it's a hobby of mine...I play the Conan PnP RPG and I kill Stygians there as well...
So yea...I "blindly" do what the lore is telling me to do...if thats what you would call it...does it really matter in an MMO? It's not actual racism...Stygians in Conan lore are based on the Ancient Egyptians, but I'm not gonna go find me some Egyptians to fight because I am such a big fan of the lore...
PLAYING: NOTHING!!! PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
Originally posted by rozenblade1 See, you are making it seem like I am doing what some other player is telling me...and if I was, who gives a damn, right? I will admit, I do what is set into the lore...Stygians are steeped in dark sorcery and mysticism, and Cimmerians are far too superstitious to get involved in such business believing it is the right of no man to dwell in sorcery... ...but that is why I play a game with such a rich lore...a lore that I was a fan of before the game came out... I play LotRO to RP because I love the lore, and I play AoC to RP for the same reason, there just happens to be real PvP in AoC... I am a Roleplayer...it is what I like to do...I am a pretty hardcore Roleplayer...it's a lot of fun for me...it's a hobby of mine...I play the Conan PnP RPG and I kill Stygians there as well... So yea...I "blindly" do what the lore is telling me to do...if thats what you would call it...does it really matter in an MMO? It's not actual racism...Stygians in Conan lore are based on the Ancient Egyptians, but I'm not gonna go find me some Egyptians to fight because I am such a big fan of the lore...
No. You are making it seem like you are doing what the devs tell you. Via 'the lore'.
If there was some threat or bonus for this behavior- I'd say 'whatev'. But it's instigated bs. It's like some grade school kid saying to you "Billy Landerson said you're a poo-poo head- you gonna let him get away with that?"
"No!" You say to instigator smiling guy, then ask "Did he really say that?"
No. Wait. You don't ask that. 'The lore'. 'Your enemy' chose a guy that looked cool, and had a background that he prob didn't know- but maybe he did, and his personal vision of his guy might be different, but probably not and who the heck cares right? Blood for your sword!
Anyway. That's just my opinion. It's just a game. In 'Cowboys & Indians' someone's gotta play the cowboys, right? 'Scalp those Indians, drive them west!'
Not what you heard? Oh. Sorry. Don't you know? It's the winners who write the 'Lore'
Seriously though- I don't think you're a 'bad guy'- just giving you something to think about. And yes, the settlers did have a bounty for indian scalps, and yes- the 'Trail of Tears' is a little better known.
But yeah. 'Lore'.
'Telling people how to behave since the beginning, because people aren't real- they're just what's said about them.'
Alright, I do see what you are saying now...and I totally get where you are coming from...especially when you said the whole cowboys and Indians thing since my mom is full Mescalero Apache...them damned cowboys...
Anyway...
It's not really the devs who tell my fellow RPers and I to do what the lore says, they just create a world for us to do it in. That is why I play on Cimmeria PvP-RP server. Others who play on the server should be prepared to get involved in some PvP, they should expect to see some crazy RPers like myself running around screaming "By Crom, man!", and they should be ready to possibly be the victim of some crazy RPers PvP fantasy.
Like I said, I'm not a ganker, and I don't fight players more that 2 levels below me.......but anywho, I can see where you are coming from, and I respect your opinion on it.
PLAYING: NOTHING!!! PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
In almost any faction-based MMO, racism is probably the only argument one could realistically have for why they relentlessly murder others in both PvE and PvP. Take WOW for example. There's no reason for Horde to ever fight Alliance. We have seem so far in the five or so years that WOW has been running that neither side will EVER have any impact on the other side. Neither side has any reason to fear loss to the other side. If one side stopped fighting completely they would be at no disadvantage whatsoever. A display of abusive behaviour towards another race, especially when completely baseless, is racism by definition.
That is an awesome statement. Would it be fair to say that some MMORPG's that have different races in the game and where the objective of the game is to terminate/hinder the race opposite of your own thus renders that game racist?
This brings me to a new question. If you agree that some MMORPG's are racist do you think that this has an impact on the world as we live in it today?
Racism is either a) the belief of one race that they are superior to another race, or b) prejudice/discrimination by one race against other race(s).
Let's say I have a small little kingdom that is being pressured by a race of lizard-men, and I decide to kill them and claim their territory in order to survive. Does that make me racist?
Can you link to an MMO where that is the case? Yours isn't an example of racism, but it is also most definitely not an example of your average MMO. Having to defend your main town against an invading force, and then being able to not just strike back but seize their territory as your own? I think most of the posters here would kill for gameplay like that in an MMO, especially in a PvE MMO.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
In almost any faction-based MMO, racism is probably the only argument one could realistically have for why they relentlessly murder others in both PvE and PvP. Take WOW for example. There's no reason for Horde to ever fight Alliance. We have seem so far in the five or so years that WOW has been running that neither side will NEVER have any impact on the other side. Neither side has any reason to fear loss to the other side. If one side stopped fighting completely they would be at no disadvantage whatsoever. A display of abusive behaviour towards another race, especially when completely baseless, is racism by definition.
That is an awesome statement. Would it be fair to say that some MMORPG's that have different races in the game and where the objective of the game is to terminate/hinder the race opposite of your own thus renders that game racist?
This brings me to a new question. If you agree that some MMORPG's are racist do you think that this has an impact on the world as we live in it today?
Racism is either a) the belief of one race that they are superior to another race, or b) prejudice/discrimination by one race against other race(s).
Let's say I have a small little kingdom that is being pressured by a race of lizard-men, and I decide to kill them and claim their territory in order to survive. Does that make me racist?
Can you link to an MMO where that is the case? Yours isn't an example of racism, but it is also most definitely not an example of of your average MMO. Having to defend your main town against an invading force, and then being able to not just strike back but seize their territory as your own? I think most of the posters here would kill for gameplay like that in an MMO, especially in a PvE MMO.
No, I can't. It was just an example. But if I fought the lizard-men and felt a natural dislike for them because of our conflict, I'd probably be considered racist because I'm judging them by their lizard-ness.
If you want to go by the technical definition, it'd fall under the latter part. I'd discriminate against lizard-men and say, "No, you can't come into my kingdom. You'll probably try to kill my family". So, technically, it's racism. Yet there's a good reason for it, isn't there? In most MMO lore, there's a reason for conflict, a reason for discrimination, a reason for hatred of a certain race or faction.
I don't agree with racism against blacks. There was no real justification reason for that. However, it's gotten to a point where if you criticize Barack Hussein Obama, you'll be called racist by some idiots because he's half black. Especially while he was campaigning and during his first few months in office. Isn't that a bit pathetic?
Using WoW's example, if I were human, past deeds cannot be easily forgotten and warrant a valid reason for hatred of Orcs. If an Orc proves himself to be honorable and trustworthy, then while I may still hate his race overall, I wouldn't hate him. Would I be racist then? I'd judge him based on his traits, but I'd judge his race based on their collective actions against me. To me, even if it was technically "racism", that'd be understandable.
In almost any faction-based MMO, racism is probably the only argument one could realistically have for why they relentlessly murder others in both PvE and PvP. Take WOW for example. There's no reason for Horde to ever fight Alliance. We have seem so far in the five or so years that WOW has been running that neither side will NEVER have any impact on the other side. Neither side has any reason to fear loss to the other side. If one side stopped fighting completely they would be at no disadvantage whatsoever. A display of abusive behaviour towards another race, especially when completely baseless, is racism by definition.
That is an awesome statement. Would it be fair to say that some MMORPG's that have different races in the game and where the objective of the game is to terminate/hinder the race opposite of your own thus renders that game racist?
This brings me to a new question. If you agree that some MMORPG's are racist do you think that this has an impact on the world as we live in it today?
Racism is either a) the belief of one race that they are superior to another race, or b) prejudice/discrimination by one race against other race(s).
Let's say I have a small little kingdom that is being pressured by a race of lizard-men, and I decide to kill them and claim their territory in order to survive. Does that make me racist?
Can you link to an MMO where that is the case? Yours isn't an example of racism, but it is also most definitely not an example of of your average MMO. Having to defend your main town against an invading force, and then being able to not just strike back but seize their territory as your own? I think most of the posters here would kill for gameplay like that in an MMO, especially in a PvE MMO.
No, I can't. It was just an example. But if I fought the lizard-men and felt a natural dislike for them because of our conflict, I'd probably be considered racist because I'm judging them by their lizard-ness.
"judging them by their lizard-ness" <--- I got a kick out of that.
I wouldn't say it's racist, especially when you look at it from the perspective of guild vs guild warfare games. If the EvilCorpCo Alliance was attacking my alliance's starbases and seizing my alliance's systems in EVE, I'd put EvilCorpCo Alliance members on my KOS list. Same situation and same scenario. It has nothing to do with race and it definitely is a justified contempt.
It's all kind of moot though, since we unfortunately don't have many MMOs that offer the cool scenario you presented.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Obviously everyone here know's racism exists in MMO's since MMO's are comprised of real people. Not everyone is a racist and not everyone likes beer. Alot of people like Wine. We are different. Accept that and don't player hate.
Someone mentioned that Age of Conan was racist. I guess you and I played different games. They had chinese, anglo saxon, african, scandinavian and middle eastern cultures, to name a few, represented in their games. Every race hated each other and hated within their own race. Not only that but everyone still worked together, fought together, loved together. It's a game for grown ups and you need to read between the lines. It's a game about brutality. Obviously if you are inclined to finding anything racist about anything you will most likely find it in any game. I find Super Mario Bros racist.
Don't forget. Developers are not saints. They too have their beliefs, moral inclinations and what have you. And will form their game thereafter. Which is why some games suit different types of people.
We are also racists for many reasons. I am mixed race (I don't even believe in the term race but I'll leave that for another topic) and I can also find other cultures, not races, annoying. Even though I've been in Asian, Australia, Africa, Europe and the US.
Italians can be annoying. Chinese can be annoying. That does not mean I will treat them with disrespect. But I will be reserved towards these cutltures. By the way my longest relationship was with a woman from China. So don't draw any conclusions.
The chief reason for racism, is ignorance of another culture. If you haven't experienced anyone or anything from that culture you will more than likely be negatively inclined, especially if all you know about that said culture is from the television. Or your Dad telling you about the time he met bla bla bla. That's where it starts.
Travel people. Meet other cultures. Don't be shy Trust me, you will be richer for it.
<<< Currently playing -> WoW, waiting for SWTOR >>> Favorite games developer - (old)Black Isle and Bioware. Most fun fantasy MMO currently dominating the market, WoW. Most fun Sci-Fi MMO out there, EvE online.
Comments
Of course there's racism in MMORPG's. And there SHOULD be. Every sane person hates dorfs like the plague. And halflings. Oh, and gnomes. Not to mention those pesky elves. Come to think of it, ALL the lesser races pretty much stink. :P
My characters hate gnomes. Unless I'm playing one, in which case he/she hates everyone else. I blame Everquest and Bertoxxulous.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I don't see why we all have to get along. It is not possible. Doesn't mean we have to hate each other but a world with everybody holding hands is a fantasy land. As long as there are people on this planet we will find a reason not to get along with someone.
I don't think being uncomfortable around different people is racist outright hatred of them is. There are plenty of reasons to despise most people without going anywhere near their race. Probably 70% of the people I meet are oxygen thieves that should be charged with aggravated stupidity and impersonating a human being. I have never not hung around someone due to race I do go out of my way to avoid people who drink, smoke or do drugs.
Does racism exist in MMORPG's?
No. You're doing something very wrong if you feel like a target of racism in a videogame.
I recall, in SWG, some folks RP-ing racism, as well. Whether that was right or not, I always considered to be a case by case basis. If you're following another player around spewing hate speech, I'd consider it griefing. If you mutter SW related racial epithets in the starbase("Filthy wookies leaving their flea ridden fur all over the ticket console... shouldn't be allowed near the station"), which then leads to a duel, that's roleplay.
As far as whether it's acceptable to go there, I guess I'd say it's up to the service itself, but it should made clear in the ToS.
All your base are belong to us?
sure i'm racist.... i hate WOW so i think all WOW players are the lowest form of mindless scum in the gaming world....
I'm a racisit. I admit it. I prefer Hawt Elf chicks to Troll girls. So sue me! I like what I like.
"JP ONRY".
'nuff said.
In DAOC Mordred I was a member of an all Kobold guild called Shadowclan, and we were heavy role players. As such, we viciously attacked (or demanded tribute) from any non-kobold player.
In EVE there are people who regularly roleplay Minmitar and kill all Amarr characters as part of roleplaying and won't let them join their corp.
So yes, by design, racism exists, but not in the real world sense.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I just skipped passed all the posts to post here...so maybe someone else has posted on this but;
Just last night as I was gearing up to gank another rogue he started "/Yelling" out N * * GA at my toon.
Now I'm not sure how the hordes know the combination of words to type but I've seen this before, and I know if I was a person who takes offense to this it would really had pissed me off.
Anyhow, I never got to gank him because he ran away like a lil punk...and he was only 1 lvl under me (60).
So yeah...that's pretty much the only racist thing I've encountered in an MMO, but heck, who cares, its not like you will ever meet the person, and someone like that may just be too ignorant to even waste time thinking about much less to get upset at imo.
I'll bite. What is it about Stygians that makes you want to kill them all? Every one of them being unexceptionable because? What do you gain by killing them, or lose by not killing them?
Why do you do what you're told?
Okay, so this will sound weird/lame/extremely nerdy...but...
In Conan lore, Stygians are loyal to the god Set...Set is considered an Arch Demon to the Hyborian kingdoms, and Set usually has cults of evil sorcerers who sacrifice the innocent to please their god...
While RPing in AoC, we have made the Cult of Set our enemy...this includes all Stygians...Now I didn't say I kill EVERY Stygian, and I don't gank lowbie Stygians, but I do kill Stygians when I'm with my fellow RPers...and sometimes when I'm alone and feel like getting into some random PvP...
We only gain RP satisfaction by killing them, and lose nothing by not killing them...
and I'm only doing what the lore is telling us to do...kinda...it sounds kinda lame now that I'm having to explain it, but it's just RP...that's just something that we do...weird lore-based stuff...
Been there, done that. WOW 'Horde vs Alliance' bs. Personally- I gave that up real quick. Having played Shadowbane before we got to go up against a huge guild- biggest on the server- took 3 guilds allying to 'stand against them', and even then it was internal politics that destroyed them in the end. Anyway, their motto was about ganking newbs and controlling the best rune drop areas. They posted patrols and would KOS you if you tried to fight a rune-drop boss.
Needless to say- we hated them- especially since they were weaseling alts into our guilds & so forth & bs. We organized leveling parties for newbs where we covered their backs, and KOS any of that guild.
Point is- we didn't need any 'imaginary reason' to PvP. Jerkwads often gave us good reasons. Man- I could make a list. Anyway, after that, following 'Lore' without cause or effect seemed... well, silly. Once I thought about it anyway.
So in WoW I started not killing the opposing faction. I'd see then, wave, and go back to my quest/whatever. If they left me alone- so be it- if not, well- let's just say I get left alone more often than not, and could PvP well enough. Some people got to be almost 'friendly'. Other players I thought might've been cool to meet- except you can't talk due to 'Lore BS'- so there's half the gamer population cut off due to bs. 'We don't like players who picked the 'wrong' side to be on back when they started.' one might say.
I 'Role Play' someone who doesn't blindly do everything they're told.
See, you are making it seem like I am doing what some other player is telling me...and if I was, who gives a damn, right?
I will admit, I do what is set into the lore...Stygians are steeped in dark sorcery and mysticism, and Cimmerians are far too superstitious to get involved in such business believing it is the right of no man to dwell in sorcery...
...but that is why I play a game with such a rich lore...a lore that I was a fan of before the game came out...
I play LotRO to RP because I love the lore, and I play AoC to RP for the same reason, there just happens to be real PvP in AoC...
I am a Roleplayer...it is what I like to do...I am a pretty hardcore Roleplayer...it's a lot of fun for me...it's a hobby of mine...I play the Conan PnP RPG and I kill Stygians there as well...
So yea...I "blindly" do what the lore is telling me to do...if thats what you would call it...does it really matter in an MMO? It's not actual racism...Stygians in Conan lore are based on the Ancient Egyptians, but I'm not gonna go find me some Egyptians to fight because I am such a big fan of the lore...
PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
WAITING FOR: Dust 514
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No. You are making it seem like you are doing what the devs tell you. Via 'the lore'.
If there was some threat or bonus for this behavior- I'd say 'whatev'. But it's instigated bs. It's like some grade school kid saying to you "Billy Landerson said you're a poo-poo head- you gonna let him get away with that?"
"No!" You say to instigator smiling guy, then ask "Did he really say that?"
No. Wait. You don't ask that. 'The lore'. 'Your enemy' chose a guy that looked cool, and had a background that he prob didn't know- but maybe he did, and his personal vision of his guy might be different, but probably not and who the heck cares right? Blood for your sword!
Anyway. That's just my opinion. It's just a game. In 'Cowboys & Indians' someone's gotta play the cowboys, right? 'Scalp those Indians, drive them west!'
Not what you heard? Oh. Sorry. Don't you know? It's the winners who write the 'Lore'
Seriously though- I don't think you're a 'bad guy'- just giving you something to think about. And yes, the settlers did have a bounty for indian scalps, and yes- the 'Trail of Tears' is a little better known.
But yeah. 'Lore'.
'Telling people how to behave since the beginning, because people aren't real- they're just what's said about them.'
Alright, I do see what you are saying now...and I totally get where you are coming from...especially when you said the whole cowboys and Indians thing since my mom is full Mescalero Apache...them damned cowboys...
Anyway...
It's not really the devs who tell my fellow RPers and I to do what the lore says, they just create a world for us to do it in. That is why I play on Cimmeria PvP-RP server. Others who play on the server should be prepared to get involved in some PvP, they should expect to see some crazy RPers like myself running around screaming "By Crom, man!", and they should be ready to possibly be the victim of some crazy RPers PvP fantasy.
Like I said, I'm not a ganker, and I don't fight players more that 2 levels below me.......but anywho, I can see where you are coming from, and I respect your opinion on it.
PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
WAITING FOR: Dust 514
That is an awesome statement. Would it be fair to say that some MMORPG's that have different races in the game and where the objective of the game is to terminate/hinder the race opposite of your own thus renders that game racist?
This brings me to a new question. If you agree that some MMORPG's are racist do you think that this has an impact on the world as we live in it today?
Racism is either a) the belief of one race that they are superior to another race, or b) prejudice/discrimination by one race against other race(s).
Let's say I have a small little kingdom that is being pressured by a race of lizard-men, and I decide to kill them and claim their territory in order to survive. Does that make me racist?
Can you link to an MMO where that is the case? Yours isn't an example of racism, but it is also most definitely not an example of your average MMO. Having to defend your main town against an invading force, and then being able to not just strike back but seize their territory as your own? I think most of the posters here would kill for gameplay like that in an MMO, especially in a PvE MMO.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That is an awesome statement. Would it be fair to say that some MMORPG's that have different races in the game and where the objective of the game is to terminate/hinder the race opposite of your own thus renders that game racist?
This brings me to a new question. If you agree that some MMORPG's are racist do you think that this has an impact on the world as we live in it today?
Racism is either a) the belief of one race that they are superior to another race, or b) prejudice/discrimination by one race against other race(s).
Let's say I have a small little kingdom that is being pressured by a race of lizard-men, and I decide to kill them and claim their territory in order to survive. Does that make me racist?
Can you link to an MMO where that is the case? Yours isn't an example of racism, but it is also most definitely not an example of of your average MMO. Having to defend your main town against an invading force, and then being able to not just strike back but seize their territory as your own? I think most of the posters here would kill for gameplay like that in an MMO, especially in a PvE MMO.
No, I can't. It was just an example. But if I fought the lizard-men and felt a natural dislike for them because of our conflict, I'd probably be considered racist because I'm judging them by their lizard-ness.
If you want to go by the technical definition, it'd fall under the latter part. I'd discriminate against lizard-men and say, "No, you can't come into my kingdom. You'll probably try to kill my family". So, technically, it's racism. Yet there's a good reason for it, isn't there? In most MMO lore, there's a reason for conflict, a reason for discrimination, a reason for hatred of a certain race or faction.
I don't agree with racism against blacks. There was no real justification reason for that. However, it's gotten to a point where if you criticize Barack Hussein Obama, you'll be called racist by some idiots because he's half black. Especially while he was campaigning and during his first few months in office. Isn't that a bit pathetic?
Using WoW's example, if I were human, past deeds cannot be easily forgotten and warrant a valid reason for hatred of Orcs. If an Orc proves himself to be honorable and trustworthy, then while I may still hate his race overall, I wouldn't hate him. Would I be racist then? I'd judge him based on his traits, but I'd judge his race based on their collective actions against me. To me, even if it was technically "racism", that'd be understandable.
This whole discussion is a bit silly, though.
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That is an awesome statement. Would it be fair to say that some MMORPG's that have different races in the game and where the objective of the game is to terminate/hinder the race opposite of your own thus renders that game racist?
This brings me to a new question. If you agree that some MMORPG's are racist do you think that this has an impact on the world as we live in it today?
Racism is either a) the belief of one race that they are superior to another race, or b) prejudice/discrimination by one race against other race(s).
Let's say I have a small little kingdom that is being pressured by a race of lizard-men, and I decide to kill them and claim their territory in order to survive. Does that make me racist?
Can you link to an MMO where that is the case? Yours isn't an example of racism, but it is also most definitely not an example of of your average MMO. Having to defend your main town against an invading force, and then being able to not just strike back but seize their territory as your own? I think most of the posters here would kill for gameplay like that in an MMO, especially in a PvE MMO.
No, I can't. It was just an example. But if I fought the lizard-men and felt a natural dislike for them because of our conflict, I'd probably be considered racist because I'm judging them by their lizard-ness.
"judging them by their lizard-ness" <--- I got a kick out of that.
I wouldn't say it's racist, especially when you look at it from the perspective of guild vs guild warfare games. If the EvilCorpCo Alliance was attacking my alliance's starbases and seizing my alliance's systems in EVE, I'd put EvilCorpCo Alliance members on my KOS list. Same situation and same scenario. It has nothing to do with race and it definitely is a justified contempt.
It's all kind of moot though, since we unfortunately don't have many MMOs that offer the cool scenario you presented.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
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Obviously everyone here know's racism exists in MMO's since MMO's are comprised of real people. Not everyone is a racist and not everyone likes beer. Alot of people like Wine. We are different. Accept that and don't player hate.
Someone mentioned that Age of Conan was racist. I guess you and I played different games. They had chinese, anglo saxon, african, scandinavian and middle eastern cultures, to name a few, represented in their games. Every race hated each other and hated within their own race. Not only that but everyone still worked together, fought together, loved together. It's a game for grown ups and you need to read between the lines. It's a game about brutality. Obviously if you are inclined to finding anything racist about anything you will most likely find it in any game. I find Super Mario Bros racist.
Don't forget. Developers are not saints. They too have their beliefs, moral inclinations and what have you. And will form their game thereafter. Which is why some games suit different types of people.
We are also racists for many reasons. I am mixed race (I don't even believe in the term race but I'll leave that for another topic) and I can also find other cultures, not races, annoying. Even though I've been in Asian, Australia, Africa, Europe and the US.
Italians can be annoying. Chinese can be annoying. That does not mean I will treat them with disrespect. But I will be reserved towards these cutltures. By the way my longest relationship was with a woman from China. So don't draw any conclusions.
The chief reason for racism, is ignorance of another culture. If you haven't experienced anyone or anything from that culture you will more than likely be negatively inclined, especially if all you know about that said culture is from the television. Or your Dad telling you about the time he met bla bla bla. That's where it starts.
Travel people. Meet other cultures. Don't be shy
Trust me, you will be richer for it.
<<< Currently playing -> WoW, waiting for SWTOR >>> Favorite games developer - (old)Black Isle and Bioware. Most fun fantasy MMO currently dominating the market, WoW. Most fun Sci-Fi MMO out there, EvE online.
My blog - norrsken.wblogg.se
Yeah I'm a racist bastard.
It's a fact that im superior to the lesser races.
It's not my fault we were made this way.
You bastards are my slaves for a reason.
Damn insects....
I hate Minmatar people.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP