I was expecting this to start. The new game to hate will be SW: TOR.
I did however expect it to come from a random angry poster. Not one of the MMORPG staff.
Some how I see this isn't 100% honest. After reading the article and trying to see where he maybe coming from. I am at a loss. Normally I find him intellegent and on the level. This article is full of too many "what ifs". I guess best thing for me is to file this in the "bad day" posts for Mr Jennings and move on.
Old article, but back in 2008 it was estimated 2.5 million. EA has to have asia in mind. No way to get 2 million from US, imo. Are there even 4.5 million MMO players in America? I'm guessing, right now, no.
I dont find anything wrong with EA splashing the cash on SWTOR. Its a risk that they have desided to make. And Im pretty sure that Bioware has a long term plan of continuing supporting the game with new content and features. If not then the game will go the way of WAR.
2 million boxes sold of SWTOR is not alot. I think EA ecspects alot more to be fair. Its Star Wars after all. Even tho Tabula Rasa failed with their futuristic game that was pretty much a typical bugfest of an MMO - Im pretty sure alot more fools will fall for the PR hype around this title.
Are there 2 million non-WOW MMO players even available?
They'll need Korea, and especially China for that.
Does anybody know how the Star Wars movies did in China? Does it remind them of Ronald Reagan's missle program? How is WOW doing there (is it even there-the Chinese gov't doesn't make things very easy for them)?
I was expecting this to start. The new game to hate will be SW: TOR.
I did however expect it to come from a random angry poster. Not one of the MMORPG staff.
Some how I see this isn't 100% honest. After reading the article and trying to see where he maybe coming from. I am at a loss. Normally I find him intellegent and on the level. This article is full of too many "what ifs". I guess best thing for me is to file this in the "bad day" posts for Mr Jennings and move on.
All his assumptions and 'what ifs' are used at EAs benefit. He uses conservative figures to give them the biggest benefit of the doubt, to reduce the impact of his estimation.
And he isn't hating on TOR, he is hating on EA and their need to inject capital into the games like a drug addict injecting heroine with a fire hose.
I don't know. look at the whole feverish internet dot com bubble that was such a hype a number of years back. You see the same in a smaller way now with MMO's, now that Blizzard has shown that 11mil subs is actually something that could be reached.
Now everyone else and their dog wants to make a super successful MMO*cough* = make insame amounts of money, whether that's realistic or not. A good burst of that dream bubble is maybe what the MMO market needs, to adjust expectations more to reality again instead of the realm of Investors' Fairytale Neverland where many publishing and investment companies are floating around in now.
I have MANY EA titles and I have to agree with most people's sentiments that this is going to tank. EA just isn't willing to POLISH a game before putting it on the shelf. I loved battlefield2. It was a great game...but the UI was clunky, the game was buggy. Same experience with pretty much every game ever played by them.
STO online had my hopes up...but within 30 seconds of Beta, I knew that the game was fundamentily flawed (much like my spelling abilities). Clunky physics and movement. Cheesy ground battles. Counterintuitive controls/navigation. The graphics are ok, but the movement made me feel like I was in KOTOR 1, except not even quite as clean as that. I hear they've added in the inside of ships now. This was one of the big things i was hoping for...but now its too late. The FPS portion of the game is terrible - take the FPS quality of say, planetside, and then beat the crap out of it, bring it back as a button mashing fest (instead of twitch skill) and you get an idea of the crappiness of said FPS portion. The ship combat was fun...it would be an AWESOME game, if it was just a space combat game played for free on armorgames.com. Its simply NOT MMO subscription worthy.
SW:TOR has a lot of potential. From the screenshots its hard to tell if they will polish this enough. First impressions are a BIG DEAL. Will they break the mold? Will they put real passion ($$ does not equal passion or talent) and fun into this?
IF EA failed, the IP wasn't enough to sustain it and LUCAS ARTS and was forced to quit pimping out their IP, would it be enough for developers to make changes? Maybe. As long as Activision Blizzard is pulling down 10million subs per month, some other major game manufacturer with $$ in their eyes chanting *money* like a zombie for brains, is going to try.
A REAL knock on the MMO industry will be if Blizz's new 'secret' MMO tanks. Imagine it. The juggernaut MMO creates a flop...proving WOW was some kind of accidental fluke. Maybe WoW was just the right game at the right time with just enough of the good stuff. Now that Activision is in the mix, the WoW expansions are less polished. Now that some of the major developers for WoW have left to go work on their new project, WoW is more buggy than ever (which isnt that bad...it was a well polished game to start). But Blizz isn't pure anymore. The new MMO will have Activision's ideas in it too.
Here's hoping that Blizz is making a good FPS/scifi mmo that breaks the mold and shows us true inspiration and innovation.
Currently not playing any MMOrpg -- Lvl 80 paladin WoW
I was expecting this to start. The new game to hate will be SW: TOR.
I did however expect it to come from a random angry poster. Not one of the MMORPG staff.
Some how I see this isn't 100% honest. After reading the article and trying to see where he maybe coming from. I am at a loss. Normally I find him intellegent and on the level. This article is full of too many "what ifs". I guess best thing for me is to file this in the "bad day" posts for Mr Jennings and move on.
All his assumptions and 'what ifs' are used at EAs benefit. He uses conservative figures to give them the biggest benefit of the doubt, to reduce the impact of his estimation.
And he isn't hating on TOR, he is hating on EA and their need to inject capital into the games like a drug addict injecting heroine with a fire hose.
Your right, I have been staring at code all day. Some how the simplest things slip you buy when you spend 10 hours running code for errors.
I stand corrected. After a good lunch and break from my work station, I am seeing things a bit more clearly.
On one point though, I believe if they can inject capital into it and make a better game. why not? If we truely want the best of the best to be designing our games. Well its costs money. With in reason of course.
[. . . ] even the much hated Star Trek Online has over 200k subs making it profitable for what Cryptic spent on it.
Jack Emmert claims, well over 100k subs. If they had over 200k he would have said over 200k. Profitable for them supposedly, yes, but not successful.
To get on topic though, I think EA's gamble is a terrible one. Their MMO track record is awful and yet they're throwing money at this project, believing, as another poster said, that financing was the issue. They're setting themselves up for failure. You don't shoot to replicate the market anomoly. Certainly not by throwing money around like a short order cook at a truck stop throws eggs around (RIP Chris Farley). Does anyone believe you can throw a billion dollars at some hardware and software engineers, create a search engine, and compete with Google?
That's not to say that I don't believe SWTOR can be successful or that it can garner and sustain 1 million plus subs, I believe it can. Money alone, however, will not bring them over a million subs. A very well made MMORPG not just a very well made game and a lot of luck will.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Originally posted by maskedweasel Plenty of games -- from FFXI to WAR to AOC have had their issues and came well under their necessary subscriber mark at one point or another. The MMO world didn't end. If that happens again here, there will be no catastrophic event other than we lose a very expensive game from a very well respected developer.
You're wrong about there being no consequences. Just look at the recent discussion about Farmville. Look at Raph Koster's feelings. He represents a big time publisher, and all their feelings. They are saying it takes too much to make MMORPGs, and they aren't getting the ROI that farmville and other social browser based games get. If SWTOR does fail we will see MMORPG development vanish. Heck, its already slowed considerably from 2 or 3 years ago.
Is that a bad thing? I don't think so. I think that will open the way for indie's to compete(sadly, it also opens us up to all the cheap asian games we have now). Everyone knows large publisher's have zero creativity. It always takes a new company to shake things up.
He does not represent all publishers, but thats neither here nor there. If TOR failed, GW2, and all those other big SOE games would still release, TSW would still be on its mark to release, and I'm sure Blizzards next MMO would release as well. The MMO market will not hinge on a single games success. MMOs were releasing before WoW and they will release after.
Now Social browser games are becoming popular. Social networking is "in" right now, but thats the ebb and flow of the internet age. Social browser games are played by people like my sister-in-law and her mother. Because social networking is so popular, its bound to attract many others that an MMO wouldn't. MMOs released before those kind of games, and they'll be alive a long time after them. Once MMOs hit consoles, I have a feeling the genre will flux again.
Old article, but back in 2008 it was estimated 2.5 million. EA has to have asia in mind. No way to get 2 million from US, imo. Are there even 4.5 million MMO players in America? I'm guessing, right now, no.
Exactly what i was thinking.
LOTRO was also riding on hugely popular IP. And it is/was pretty good MMO ( at least as good as WOW)
Still it barely holds 300.000 subscribers in west.
And as for WOW numbers.
You must take into account that most of those were non gamers. People that them selves said will never go back to MMOs again. They are not really interested in the genre.
For them it was just popular thing to do. Like Facebook is today. Or Farmville for that mater.
[. . . ] even the much hated Star Trek Online has over 200k subs making it profitable for what Cryptic spent on it.
Jack Emmert claims, well over 100k subs. If they had over 200k he would have said over 200k. Profitable for them supposedly, yes, but not successful.
To get on topic though, I think EA's gamble is a terrible one. Their MMO track record is awful and yet they're throwing money at this project, believing, as another poster said, that financing was the issue. They're setting themselves up for failure. You don't shoot to replicate the market anomoly. Certainly not by throwing money around like a short order cook at a truck stop throws eggs around (RIP Chris Farley). Does anyone believe you can throw a billion dollars at some hardware and software engineers, create a search engine, and compete with Google?
That's not to say that I don't believe SWTOR can be successful or that it can garner and sustain 1 million plus subs, I believe it can. Money alone, however, will not bring them over a million subs. A very well made MMORPG not just a very well made game and a lot of luck will.
only time will tell if SW:ToR will hit the bullseye or just get flushed down the tubes like a rotten turd.
As for the search engine thing...well Don't tell Microsoft that lol
Good thoughts as always from Scott. I agree for the most part. EA put to many eggs in this basket. Yes it will be popular but where is all this money going. From what we have seen there just doesnt seem to be that much there. Its a solo game and will be regardless of the other 10 percent of the game that isnt. People will rush due to wow mentality to max level then complain there is nothing left to do and quit. Will be interesting to watch since people also said STO would be the next big thing.
Comments like this show you are not following the development of this game. TOR will have 8 classes that have their own stories and content. Within each of those classes, there will be different choices. Name one MMO that offers that. I plan on playing at least 6 of these classes. That's like playing ME2 or KOTOR six times with a different story. In addition, in resent interviews, they have stated there is content that requires a group. They have also said that they understand how improtant end game is and are consentrating on providing that. Do your research.
As far as this article goes, I respectfully disagree. One of the chief complaints I've heard about resent launches is that the game was released too soon. Why does this happen? Mostly because the game needs to make money. EA is investing the money needed to produce a comple and polished game. Isn't that what everyone wants? If not, then the MMO community are full it.
Jack Emmert claims, well over 100k subs. If they had over 200k he would have said over 200k. Profitable for them supposedly, yes, but not successful.
To get on topic though, I think EA's gamble is a terrible one. Their MMO track record is awful and yet they're throwing money at this project, believing, as another poster said, that financing was the issue. They're setting themselves up for failure. You don't shoot to replicate the market anomoly. Certainly not by throwing money around like a short order cook at a truck stop throws eggs around (RIP Chris Farley). Does anyone believe you can throw a billion dollars at some hardware and software engineers, create a search engine, and compete with Google?
That's not to say that I don't believe SWTOR can be successful or that it can garner and sustain 1 million plus subs, I believe it can. Money alone, however, will not bring them over a million subs. A very well made MMORPG not just a very well made game and a lot of luck will.
only time will tell if SW:ToR will hit the bullseye or just get flushed down the tubes like a rotten turd.
As for the search engine thing...well Don't tell Microsoft that lol
MS knows already. Bing isn't exactly soaring up the Alexa ranks.
I don't think SWTOR will "get flushed down the tubes like a rotten turd." I just think that EA's expectations need to be tempered. Unfortunately, even if they do temper their expectations, they can't take money back they already spent.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
The funny thing to me is that I don't think people honestly equate money with development here. It appears most are saying you can't just throw money at the game and hope for something good. Its not like they are packing content gaps with 5$ bills here. They could easily have made this game less expensive. Supposedly they have created so much content that it is like playing roughly 8 sequels of KOTOR in a single game (roughly their equation).
Just pointing out, that they aren't stocking their lunch room with a golden microwave and a platinum refrigerator, its not that they are purposely throwing money into this game. They didn't say "Guys we have 700 million dollars lying around, create a game and use it all" they are just creating a game, that happens to be extremely expensive, and they are looking for a return on that. All companies do that to an extent.
[. . . ] even the much hated Star Trek Online has over 200k subs making it profitable for what Cryptic spent on it.
Jack Emmert claims, well over 100k subs. If they had over 200k he would have said over 200k. Profitable for them supposedly, yes, but not successful.
To get on topic though, I think EA's gamble is a terrible one. Their MMO track record is awful and yet they're throwing money at this project, believing, as another poster said, that financing was the issue. They're setting themselves up for failure. You don't shoot to replicate the market anomoly. Certainly not by throwing money around like a short order cook at a truck stop throws eggs around (RIP Chris Farley). Does anyone believe you can throw a billion dollars at some hardware and software engineers, create a search engine, and compete with Google?
That's not to say that I don't believe SWTOR can be successful or that it can garner and sustain 1 million plus subs, I believe it can. Money alone, however, will not bring them over a million subs. A very well made MMORPG not just a very well made game and a lot of luck will.
Aye.
Most of these companies look at how much Blizzard spent on the development of WoW and think that by spending the same amount or even more, they could easily replicate Blizzards success.
Thing is, Blizzard took that money and spent a lot on making a game they thought a lot of people would want to play. Not just the theme of the game, but mechanics, polish, systems, etc. They looked at the titles in the genre and culled through feature sets and player input. They built a game around that research and made sure it worked. Then they released it.
All the other companies look at what Blizzard made, how much they spent and the popularity of the IP and go from there. In the last few years its like all they did was take WoW, slapped some popular IP on it (WAR, etc) aimed the game to a specific player theme (PvP, PvE) and spent tons of money on it (mostly on advertising and hype) and assumed it would be an instant success. Then those games released, most hobbled along for a few months, turned players off and entered a state of gaming life support where a lot are still laying in bed in some MMO ICU.
As for EA, they should know better by now. Sure TOR could have a chance to make 2 million concurrent subs, but they should know that aiming lower than that '1 million players to break even' figure could help protect them from pulling a WAR all over again. And with EA's track record for MMOs (EnB, WAR, UO2, UOX) I wouldnt be making such assured statements.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
In addition to my other comment, I'd like to add that I think you are understimating the marketing that can be put into this game. Consider that Star Wars already has a popular animated series on the Cartoon Network that can be used to air comercials for the game. In addition, Star Wars will have an adult focused, live action, TV show in the near future. Another avenue to advertize directly to Star Wars fans. And finally, there are all the books and comics.
First off, these numbers are, in my eyes, rather speculative; as different values are being thrown around here and there.
Secondly, I don't completely agree with your Indie love; whilst Indie companies might do some risky stuff like full loot pvp, they have less money to make their games; less money means less scope (as written in an article on this very site), meaning they can't do all that much outside these small different factors.
While Indie companies might be good to try out what the big boys don't risk, it isn't likely they'll hit the big numbers or produce an interely different game experience like some seem to think they do.
The number you throw out there and put on the game might actually come close to what the real cost is, but I think you really speculate too much about the rest of the scheme; these guys have brains, they have planned out all of this; there's no way they'll give a game like this only a year to break even.
And while EA might have made serious blunders with Mythic, Mythic itself was also responsible for quite a bit imo (quality of design team).
Mythic is also not BioWare.
You've left a last factor completely out of the equation btw: Lucasarts, who also have a shitload of money, I'm quite sure the cost of the game is spread out between both EA and them, taking a good bit of strain away.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
While Indie companies might be good to try out what the big boys don't risk, it isn't likely they'll hit the big numbers or produce an interely different game experience like some seem to think they do.
While Indie companies might be good to try out what the big boys don't risk, it isn't likely they'll hit the big numbers or produce an interely different game experience like some seem to think they do.
Ahem, EVE, one of the most popular MMOs to date.
Talking about millions here dude.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I think the major problem EA has is expectation on when they will get the subscribers. WOW didn't start out with 11 million, they worked up to it.
EA's track record with MMOs isn't great when it comes to long term - and MMOs need long term nurturing.
Will SWTOR lack content at launch? Yep no matter how much they have or how good it is - there will be a group who slam through the content so fast that it will make the devs heads spin. Folks that burn through the content are who you aim for initially because they create buzz, problem is they are not usually long term subscribers.
I think the biggest challenge facing EA and Bioware after launch is managing the community - it's a different kind of business for both. I'm not sure either has successfully managed a subscription service of any magnitude in the past - it's another animal entirely when compared to box sales and expansions.
Hurm... in the Force we must put our trust! Clear your mind must be from doubt! XD
..
Seriously, I mean its sorta frightning, yes, but so both game and film expenses have all constantly risen. And I have the greatest respect towards EA for daring such a really big gamble! I mean, big things need big money. I dont believe we really can return to the days of indie gaming. Sorry, I just dont buy that. No pun intended.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
While Indie companies might be good to try out what the big boys don't risk, it isn't likely they'll hit the big numbers or produce an interely different game experience like some seem to think they do.
Ahem, EVE, one of the most popular MMOs to date.
Talking about millions here dude.
So, WoW is the only game that has ever been a success to you?
Comments
I was expecting this to start. The new game to hate will be SW: TOR.
I did however expect it to come from a random angry poster. Not one of the MMORPG staff.
Some how I see this isn't 100% honest. After reading the article and trying to see where he maybe coming from. I am at a loss. Normally I find him intellegent and on the level. This article is full of too many "what ifs". I guess best thing for me is to file this in the "bad day" posts for Mr Jennings and move on.
http://www.massively.com/2008/01/22/world-of-warcraft-hits-10-million-players/
Old article, but back in 2008 it was estimated 2.5 million. EA has to have asia in mind. No way to get 2 million from US, imo. Are there even 4.5 million MMO players in America? I'm guessing, right now, no.
I dont find anything wrong with EA splashing the cash on SWTOR. Its a risk that they have desided to make. And Im pretty sure that Bioware has a long term plan of continuing supporting the game with new content and features. If not then the game will go the way of WAR.
2 million boxes sold of SWTOR is not alot. I think EA ecspects alot more to be fair. Its Star Wars after all. Even tho Tabula Rasa failed with their futuristic game that was pretty much a typical bugfest of an MMO - Im pretty sure alot more fools will fall for the PR hype around this title.
Sadly...
Are there 2 million non-WOW MMO players even available?
They'll need Korea, and especially China for that.
Does anybody know how the Star Wars movies did in China? Does it remind them of Ronald Reagan's missle program? How is WOW doing there (is it even there-the Chinese gov't doesn't make things very easy for them)?
All his assumptions and 'what ifs' are used at EAs benefit. He uses conservative figures to give them the biggest benefit of the doubt, to reduce the impact of his estimation.
And he isn't hating on TOR, he is hating on EA and their need to inject capital into the games like a drug addict injecting heroine with a fire hose.
I have MANY EA titles and I have to agree with most people's sentiments that this is going to tank. EA just isn't willing to POLISH a game before putting it on the shelf. I loved battlefield2. It was a great game...but the UI was clunky, the game was buggy. Same experience with pretty much every game ever played by them.
STO online had my hopes up...but within 30 seconds of Beta, I knew that the game was fundamentily flawed (much like my spelling abilities). Clunky physics and movement. Cheesy ground battles. Counterintuitive controls/navigation. The graphics are ok, but the movement made me feel like I was in KOTOR 1, except not even quite as clean as that. I hear they've added in the inside of ships now. This was one of the big things i was hoping for...but now its too late. The FPS portion of the game is terrible - take the FPS quality of say, planetside, and then beat the crap out of it, bring it back as a button mashing fest (instead of twitch skill) and you get an idea of the crappiness of said FPS portion. The ship combat was fun...it would be an AWESOME game, if it was just a space combat game played for free on armorgames.com. Its simply NOT MMO subscription worthy.
SW:TOR has a lot of potential. From the screenshots its hard to tell if they will polish this enough. First impressions are a BIG DEAL. Will they break the mold? Will they put real passion ($$ does not equal passion or talent) and fun into this?
IF EA failed, the IP wasn't enough to sustain it and LUCAS ARTS and was forced to quit pimping out their IP, would it be enough for developers to make changes? Maybe. As long as Activision Blizzard is pulling down 10million subs per month, some other major game manufacturer with $$ in their eyes chanting *money* like a zombie for brains, is going to try.
A REAL knock on the MMO industry will be if Blizz's new 'secret' MMO tanks. Imagine it. The juggernaut MMO creates a flop...proving WOW was some kind of accidental fluke. Maybe WoW was just the right game at the right time with just enough of the good stuff. Now that Activision is in the mix, the WoW expansions are less polished. Now that some of the major developers for WoW have left to go work on their new project, WoW is more buggy than ever (which isnt that bad...it was a well polished game to start). But Blizz isn't pure anymore. The new MMO will have Activision's ideas in it too.
Here's hoping that Blizz is making a good FPS/scifi mmo that breaks the mold and shows us true inspiration and innovation.
Currently not playing any MMOrpg --
Lvl 80 paladin WoW
Your right, I have been staring at code all day. Some how the simplest things slip you buy when you spend 10 hours running code for errors.
I stand corrected. After a good lunch and break from my work station, I am seeing things a bit more clearly.
On one point though, I believe if they can inject capital into it and make a better game. why not? If we truely want the best of the best to be designing our games. Well its costs money. With in reason of course.
Jack Emmert claims, well over 100k subs. If they had over 200k he would have said over 200k. Profitable for them supposedly, yes, but not successful.
To get on topic though, I think EA's gamble is a terrible one. Their MMO track record is awful and yet they're throwing money at this project, believing, as another poster said, that financing was the issue. They're setting themselves up for failure. You don't shoot to replicate the market anomoly. Certainly not by throwing money around like a short order cook at a truck stop throws eggs around (RIP Chris Farley). Does anyone believe you can throw a billion dollars at some hardware and software engineers, create a search engine, and compete with Google?
That's not to say that I don't believe SWTOR can be successful or that it can garner and sustain 1 million plus subs, I believe it can. Money alone, however, will not bring them over a million subs. A very well made MMORPG not just a very well made game and a lot of luck will.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
He does not represent all publishers, but thats neither here nor there. If TOR failed, GW2, and all those other big SOE games would still release, TSW would still be on its mark to release, and I'm sure Blizzards next MMO would release as well. The MMO market will not hinge on a single games success. MMOs were releasing before WoW and they will release after.
Now Social browser games are becoming popular. Social networking is "in" right now, but thats the ebb and flow of the internet age. Social browser games are played by people like my sister-in-law and her mother. Because social networking is so popular, its bound to attract many others that an MMO wouldn't. MMOs released before those kind of games, and they'll be alive a long time after them. Once MMOs hit consoles, I have a feeling the genre will flux again.
I might have missed it in quick reading - Where does the Box sales figure into the costs - I would assume we need to add another 50 million.
Exactly what i was thinking.
LOTRO was also riding on hugely popular IP. And it is/was pretty good MMO ( at least as good as WOW)
Still it barely holds 300.000 subscribers in west.
And as for WOW numbers.
You must take into account that most of those were non gamers. People that them selves said will never go back to MMOs again. They are not really interested in the genre.
For them it was just popular thing to do. Like Facebook is today. Or Farmville for that mater.
SWTOR has to rely on core gamers.
only time will tell if SW:ToR will hit the bullseye or just get flushed down the tubes like a rotten turd.
As for the search engine thing...well Don't tell Microsoft that lol
"Does anyone believe you can throw a billion dollars at some hardware and software engineers, create a search engine, and compete with Google?"
Actually yes....
Bing is up to 5% market share, so yea, you can compete with Google.
Comments like this show you are not following the development of this game. TOR will have 8 classes that have their own stories and content. Within each of those classes, there will be different choices. Name one MMO that offers that. I plan on playing at least 6 of these classes. That's like playing ME2 or KOTOR six times with a different story. In addition, in resent interviews, they have stated there is content that requires a group. They have also said that they understand how improtant end game is and are consentrating on providing that. Do your research.
As far as this article goes, I respectfully disagree. One of the chief complaints I've heard about resent launches is that the game was released too soon. Why does this happen? Mostly because the game needs to make money. EA is investing the money needed to produce a comple and polished game. Isn't that what everyone wants? If not, then the MMO community are full it.
MS knows already. Bing isn't exactly soaring up the Alexa ranks.
I don't think SWTOR will "get flushed down the tubes like a rotten turd." I just think that EA's expectations need to be tempered. Unfortunately, even if they do temper their expectations, they can't take money back they already spent.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
The funny thing to me is that I don't think people honestly equate money with development here. It appears most are saying you can't just throw money at the game and hope for something good. Its not like they are packing content gaps with 5$ bills here. They could easily have made this game less expensive. Supposedly they have created so much content that it is like playing roughly 8 sequels of KOTOR in a single game (roughly their equation).
Just pointing out, that they aren't stocking their lunch room with a golden microwave and a platinum refrigerator, its not that they are purposely throwing money into this game. They didn't say "Guys we have 700 million dollars lying around, create a game and use it all" they are just creating a game, that happens to be extremely expensive, and they are looking for a return on that. All companies do that to an extent.
Aye.
Most of these companies look at how much Blizzard spent on the development of WoW and think that by spending the same amount or even more, they could easily replicate Blizzards success.
Thing is, Blizzard took that money and spent a lot on making a game they thought a lot of people would want to play. Not just the theme of the game, but mechanics, polish, systems, etc. They looked at the titles in the genre and culled through feature sets and player input. They built a game around that research and made sure it worked. Then they released it.
All the other companies look at what Blizzard made, how much they spent and the popularity of the IP and go from there. In the last few years its like all they did was take WoW, slapped some popular IP on it (WAR, etc) aimed the game to a specific player theme (PvP, PvE) and spent tons of money on it (mostly on advertising and hype) and assumed it would be an instant success. Then those games released, most hobbled along for a few months, turned players off and entered a state of gaming life support where a lot are still laying in bed in some MMO ICU.
As for EA, they should know better by now. Sure TOR could have a chance to make 2 million concurrent subs, but they should know that aiming lower than that '1 million players to break even' figure could help protect them from pulling a WAR all over again. And with EA's track record for MMOs (EnB, WAR, UO2, UOX) I wouldnt be making such assured statements.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Scott,
In addition to my other comment, I'd like to add that I think you are understimating the marketing that can be put into this game. Consider that Star Wars already has a popular animated series on the Cartoon Network that can be used to air comercials for the game. In addition, Star Wars will have an adult focused, live action, TV show in the near future. Another avenue to advertize directly to Star Wars fans. And finally, there are all the books and comics.
First off, these numbers are, in my eyes, rather speculative; as different values are being thrown around here and there.
Secondly, I don't completely agree with your Indie love; whilst Indie companies might do some risky stuff like full loot pvp, they have less money to make their games; less money means less scope (as written in an article on this very site), meaning they can't do all that much outside these small different factors.
While Indie companies might be good to try out what the big boys don't risk, it isn't likely they'll hit the big numbers or produce an interely different game experience like some seem to think they do.
The number you throw out there and put on the game might actually come close to what the real cost is, but I think you really speculate too much about the rest of the scheme; these guys have brains, they have planned out all of this; there's no way they'll give a game like this only a year to break even.
And while EA might have made serious blunders with Mythic, Mythic itself was also responsible for quite a bit imo (quality of design team).
Mythic is also not BioWare.
You've left a last factor completely out of the equation btw: Lucasarts, who also have a shitload of money, I'm quite sure the cost of the game is spread out between both EA and them, taking a good bit of strain away.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Ahem, EVE, one of the most popular MMOs to date.
Talking about millions here dude.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I think the major problem EA has is expectation on when they will get the subscribers. WOW didn't start out with 11 million, they worked up to it.
EA's track record with MMOs isn't great when it comes to long term - and MMOs need long term nurturing.
Will SWTOR lack content at launch? Yep no matter how much they have or how good it is - there will be a group who slam through the content so fast that it will make the devs heads spin. Folks that burn through the content are who you aim for initially because they create buzz, problem is they are not usually long term subscribers.
I think the biggest challenge facing EA and Bioware after launch is managing the community - it's a different kind of business for both. I'm not sure either has successfully managed a subscription service of any magnitude in the past - it's another animal entirely when compared to box sales and expansions.
Hurm... in the Force we must put our trust! Clear your mind must be from doubt! XD
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Seriously, I mean its sorta frightning, yes, but so both game and film expenses have all constantly risen. And I have the greatest respect towards EA for daring such a really big gamble! I mean, big things need big money. I dont believe we really can return to the days of indie gaming. Sorry, I just dont buy that. No pun intended.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
So, WoW is the only game that has ever been a success to you?