Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why is their so much hatred for WoW?
UnholyVashX
Member Posts: 49
I'd like to say I've played my fair share of MMO's. I'd also like to think I know the pro's and con's of most MMO's, but I don't understand why so many people reserve an intense hatred for WoW. People constantly compare other games to WoW saying how they're better and then bash on everything WoW has to offer.
But lets straighten one thing out first. When I speak of WoW I like to speak for the Burning Crusade version of WoW. Not a huge WotLK fan myself, although people seem to forget about BC altogether and just hate on the game.
WoW has many things going for it:
Diverse mechanics, some of which no other game has. (WotLK phasing technology anyone?)
Great free combat - Have to keep moving to stay alive, much like many games should be IMO.
Crafting system. Not the best by any means, although still pretty good none the less.
Best PvE of any game, or at the very least, can be argued to be one of the best.
Great PvP combat with more balance than most games will offer. I realize their are other "PvP" games that do better but seeing as how they usually fail in terms of PvE content while WoW offers both, I will argue that WoW's PvP is still very good. Also offers many different ways to PvP which is nice.
Talent specialization, and if I remember correct it was the first (or one of the first) games to introduce such a system that is now deemed mandatory in most games.
A vast array of spells with the ability to change your role with most classes.
I guess the worst thing about WoW how it "caters" to the casual gamers. While I will agree it kills the game a bit, I myself don't have much time to dedicate to the game anymore and the arguement how there is no challenge is completely false. I would like to say to anyone who says WoW has no challenge to show me your ICC Heroic 25 Lich King achievement or just shut up. The game has a challenge, sure not on any normal 10 man raid for the most part, but if thats not hard enough, just ramp up the difficulty. Don't just beat the easiest setting and then complain about how easy it was.
There are other games that I believe are superior to WoW or pioneered many aspects of MMO's (UO/EQ for instance), but thats not a real reason to hate on WoW. It had 11 million players at one point and I do agree they flaunt that fact too much, but I think they've earned the right. Blizzard is a terrific company. They had Diablo and Starcraft and even the original Warcraft long before WoW was conceived.
I guess I can't comprehend why people play WoW for 10 minutes and then complain about why it's the worst thing ever created while most games try to copy off it because of how much of a success it is. I will agree WoW copied aspects from other games but thats what you do when you find something that just works. Why forsake it altogether then you can change it and make it a part of your game.
Well I suppose thats my defence for a game that I personally believe is one of the top MMO's ever.
Bro you are playing LOTRO like it owes you money - Grunt187
Anticipation : TERA
Comments
The only bad thing about WoW is the other players and since it's a online game there is no escape.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Well, you've touched on the reason I hate WoW these days. WotLK was a terrible expansion and this is reflected by the fact that the game has not grown in nearly 18 months and is actually declining in NA and especially in Europe.
I love Classic and BC and from Nov 2004 - Nov 2008 WoW was the best MMORPG on the market.
But you say things like phasing are great. Phasing is just another word for single player content. A lot of people on mmorpg.com have been playing mmo's for a long time and their expectations of what an mmo should been conflicts with what WoW is today - a hybrid single player/mmo game designed for console kiddies with ADHD.
There's no one reason.
Some people hate WoW because it brought non-MMO gamers into the genre.
Some people hate WoW because it's themepark and they prefer sandbox.
Some people hate WoW because it promotes the item-ladder "phat lewt" mentality.
Some people hate WoW because it caters to casual gamers.
Some people hate WoW because it's solo-friendly and they prefer grouping.
Some people hate WoW because they can't grief in it.
Some people hate WoW because of its graphical style.
Some people hate WoW because they used to love WoW and it's changed.
Some people hate WoW because other people hate WoW.
Some people have never played WoW but hate it because of what others say about it.
Some people just hate WoW because it's the pretty girl at school who wouldn't date 'em.
Trying to understand why people hate stuff; best to leave that to people with psych degrees. I'm cool with people who don't like WoW because it doesn't suit their preferences but I find it best to simply ignore any eejit who spews unstructured hate.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
Agree 100% with all your points. Spot on.
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months
Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others...
Currently Playing: DAOC
There was a lot of different mechanics introduced in Wrath of the Lich King.
To give an indication of a couple:
When you start a Deathknight character, you begin in a floating necropolis above a peaceful and serene human settlement. You join the fight and, as you progress through the questline, that settlement becomes more and more decimated and overrun by the forces of the Lich King.
The world changes to reflect your actions; that's "phasing".
Another good one; there's a daily mission where you end up fighting a dragon while flying on it.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I think there is some frustration from what WoW has done to the entire genre due to it's popularity. As you mentioned, many mmos get ideas from WoW now because it is so successful - features that many of the veterans to this genre do not like. The casual nature of it, and the speed of leveling to max are just a couple examples. Every company that creates an MMO now has to factor in using some of WoW's mechanics because it is the most successful MMO by far, yet a majority of it's players are new to the genre and are not a good judge of what brought some players to the genre in the first place. I think this causes a number of veterans to feel like the genre is being taken in the wrong direction from where it originated, and what brought them to play MMOs in the beginning, such as the depth of lore, grouping with others, difficulty or challenge of completing quests, etc.
I personally think that changes in every genre are inevitable, but I certainly understand the feeling of losing some very fun mmo mechanics because they simply won't make the money that other more casual mechanics can make with the player base.
Then again, there are certain smaller companies like with EVE & Darkfall that enter the market catering to a niche market with very little overhead that don't go for the popular mechanics over creating a game they want. I hope we see more of these smaller companies develop for the genre to make up for all the casual garbage coming out by companies just trying to make a buck.
Edit: Cleaning up grammar. Typing with a headache creates one for all those english teachers out there.
You hate the games that copy WoW yet WoW was basically EQ lite in a Warhammer style universe.
Where do you think Alex Afrasiabi, Rob Pardo and Jeff Kaplan come from? Its no coincedence that when WoW was released it bore more than a passing remeblance to EQ.
Thats one of the many double standards WoW players have.
Ah ok, then I agree with that point then.
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
Not going to even try and explain what phasing is if you don't know.
Sure, play a mage and stand still while a rogue is on you. Good luck on winning that fight. - Yes I spoke of PvP as opposed to games like Aion or GW where from everything I've seen, there is no point in moving. Survivability will not change. BTW
On top of that, the combat is turn based. Yep, it's hidden, but if you pay close attention, it's turn based.
Wait WTF? Really don't think so. I'd also like to know how much PvP you've actually done.
The crafting system was a solid attempt and awarded those who went out and got the materials on their time. The only part about it that was truly bad was the very limited gear while leveling. Although end game if you aren't crafting you're not playing to your full potential. Sure, not a great method but when it really allows you to get end game crafting pretty easily while leveling, there is no excuse.
I agree with some instanced bosses may just feel like reskinned mobs. But show me a game that tried as hard on instances and came out with better results. Besides the raiding was what I was really shooting at since AI questing/grinding is basically the same in every game.
I love how you call the PvP pointless and a mini game. It gives you a purpose. Although I agree a 50v50 of just killing each other might be fun, the chaos is too great and AoE/burst would prevail if that were the only point. If we are to say CTF is a mini game then It's hilarious how Halo has a mini game in it. Capture the flag has always had strategy in it and maybe it's not as strategic as it could be (Zerg rush anyone), it's still more than just spamming blizzard/pom pyro while getting a group of 50 mages to faceroll. (Or 50 rogues if you prefer)
Bro you are playing LOTRO like it owes you money - Grunt187
Anticipation : TERA
Yeah, but the problem is that WoW changed EQ enough to make it theirs and added in a very important factor that EQ was missing:
FUN
I never liked EQ, I thought it was trash. Some of the ideas were good, but other than that I went straight back to UO. There are (were) enough differences between WoW and EQ to make them seperate games. Where as, there are not enough differences between WoW and WAR to make them different games. Same thing can be said about EQ and Vanguard, if you wanna go with the EQ references.
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
WOW is by far the biggest mmorpg in our western market ever made.
Hell, it generated more money than any other single video game ever created. Around 5 billion dollars total.
So that's why some are frustrated.
But WOW hate is a very small minority in this world.
Mostly assembled within the 200 daily logged in users on mmorpg.com (86 as we speak).
Micrsoft and Coca Cola are hated too.
There is no logical explanation for hating a video game, other than that its based on uncontrolled personal emotions.
The problem only gets worse for these haters as every "Wow killer" launched at it crumbled into a niche market faster than you can pronounce the word "subscription".
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
How are you comparing the strategy of PVP to the fact that it has absolutely 0 effect on anything, outside of that PVP instance? A Mini-Game is something that is just done on the side of the focus of the main game, WoW's primary focus is PVE and has been since they added in Battlegrounds (when I quit the first time).
The only part of PVP in WoW that's not a Mini-Game, is the fight over WG. WoW's PVE can and does effect the world. Most of the dungeons don't, but they still focus on you getting up to the point where you can participate in the dungeons that do effect the world and make changes on your server. Epic PVP gear can be replaced more effectively by the gear you can get in non-Heroics.
In WoW, if you do PVP you're just wasting time and piddling around for fun. If you leveled up to 80 and spent time farming to have fun PVPing in WoW, then that's you. I'd rather just play a FPS.
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
Phasing isn't that hard to explain. It's the mechanic that allows the environment to be different depending on which quests/content have been completed by the player. So for example, Player A will see a city or area that looks very different from what Player B sees even though they are both in the same part of the game (meaning not in an instance or different 'zone' like other MMOs use to reflect different time periods or versions of an area). I never really saw how this was a ground-breaking new idea though, since any MMO can replicate the same thing via an instance or zone, just like WoW does with the Caverns of Time instances, or how the timeline in Guild Wars unfolds. It didn't bring anything new to the players - just a different way of presenting the same content according to the programmers.
I also agree with the turn-based combat. The only MMOs that don't use this are MMOFPS, so it's kind of a moot point. All MMORPGs use turn-based combat. Just look at your combat logs and it's obvious. It looks like a transcription from a D&D tournament. "Player A hits Monster A for 45 damage. Monster A hits Player A for 23 damage. Player A casts Magic Missile. Monster A dies to Player A's Magic Missile."
I don't hate WoW. I'm tired of MMO companies thinking that they have to emulate WoW closely in order to make money which narrows down greatly the scope of the types of gameplay/mechanics I as an MMO gamer have to choose from. This sting is even more so in that I have to look to companies who barely have the funds to attempt an MMO much less the money needed to put something of an average level of polish together.
If some of these AAA companies were to start making a couple of MMOs that patterned themselves from Asheron's Call or early UO or early SWG, with some minor tweaking and polishing, then I'd probably never use the phrase "WoW formula" when talking about my displeasure at the monopoly on MMO Design theory by AAA companies. Heck, there'd probably be very few occasions in which I would even mention the name WoW. But, as long as AAA companies try to emulate the beast, I'll compare their games to it and explain why I won't be playing their game.
I don't consider that hate. I consider it potential customer feedback. I owe it to game designers to let them know that what they're doing doesn't interest me (and why) just as those who love the WoW forumla do in voicing their opinion of approval.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
The PvP of WOW is based on a ladder based human competition. It uses a chess like "elo" system. People are rated upon their losses and wins and put into a PvP competition.
Giving prestige, titles, achievements. Best PvP player in WOW can claim "wrathful gladiator" title in this season : best pvp player out of 200.000 players (ty cross server platform).
What is MORE meaningful than having the title of THE best PvP player and ditto exclusive flying skeleton dragon?
This is the basis btw of ALL human like competitons in sports etc.
If that's meaningless for you, so all sports and competitions are meaningless.
-
Oh and btw in CATA next time, this competiton will be run through the Battlegrounds too and supplemented with new world PvP zones with a little added RvR.
But the mainstay of PvP in WOW is the competition and rankings based on wins and losses.
Most can't take the losses though
So they cry and hate losing. Hate? We're back on track....
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
WoW has created the new template in which all future mainstream MMO's will be born from in that they will be attempting to copy-emulate-duplicate it. The problem with this, is that they'll also be trying to replicate the same problems WoW has going for it. So, between carrying forth the problems that WoW currrently has in game, it's also stiffling future MMO development & advancement as a whole for the time being, which is a sad thing to have happen.
Lmao how many time has this question over the years a 1000 ? 10000? i dont feel im exagerating either geesh, use search function mate theres no answer you can get here that hasnt been said Zillions of times before.
But to answer your question and I'll keep it simple, there were the special MMO's before WoW like Ultima,EQ1,AC,DAOC, the ones that WoW copied off which isnt a bad thing in itself but here it is, its not the game people who know what there talking about hate its the path the game sent all the MMO's that followed it on, which is basicly carebear lane.
Not Wows fault there was a market for the casual gamer too and they filled it but all the devs around the world jumped on the bandwagon and thats why years later we still have only shit available to play.
So to reliterate its not WoW its what the market changed into after WoW.
Everything goes full circle is why im still hopeing and waiting.
Just saw dude above me say similar thing and i concur.
I can't tell you why other people hate WoW, but I can tell you why I hate it.
Most obnoxious playerbase in the history of MMOs. This is true of almost every Blizzard game, something about their games just appeals to the worst of the internet.
Unbalanced classes by design. Blizzzard deliberately breaks classes by OPing them in order to extend subscriptions. They know that their immature players will jump on an OP class and play it until they next OPed class is made, instead of quitting the game altogether because they're bored of it.
Raids are boring. I'm not going to spend 4 hours every night for a CHANCE to get loot, sorry. If they cut out everything but raiding, WoW would've never taken off. Log in for the first time and wait 1 HOUR, then spend another 3-4 hours for nothing but a small chance at loot....no one would play that.
Theme park feel. Blizzard managed to completely remove any realistic feel to the game world and made it just one stop after the other. Nothing in the game has any substance.
Last but not least, they completely destroyed the feel and mojo of the Hoirde by forcing elves and paladins into the faction. This also gave Horde what it was missing, a massive preteen base that didn't want to look "ugly" so they played alliance. Now all the horde races are vastly outnumbered by elves and the original races are a joke to the new, "pretty" horde players.
THere are other reasons that I can't think of now, but I'm reminded every time I go back and check out patch notes on the wow site from time to time.
+1
Tbh, I think the term 'hatred' is often abused, many people don't hate WoW but disagree with certain elements in it or Blizzard's general direction with their MMO, or just dislike some aspects of WoW. When they voice those opinions they're often being accused of 'WoW hatred' in polarising discussions, just as others are tagged as 'WoW fanbois' when they were merely voicing a positive or enthusiastic post about WoW. Not that you don't have genuine WoW haters or fanbois on these forums and other ones that are one-sided in their viewpoints, but these are often a small (but loud) core.
ZenNature wrote:
I think there is some frustration from what WoW has done to the entire genre due to it's popularity. As you mentioned, many mmos get ideas from WoW now because it is so successful - features that many of the veterans to this genre do not like. The casual nature of it, and the speed of leveling to max are just a couple examples. Every company that creates an MMO now has to factor in using some of WoW's mechanics because it is the most successful MMO by far, yet a majority of it's players are new to the genre and are not a good judge of what brought some players to the genre in the first place. I think this causes a number of veterans to feel like the genre is being taken in the wrong direction from where it originated, and what brought them to play MMOs in the beginning, such as the depth of lore, grouping with others, difficulty or challenge of completing quests, etc.
And this.
It's a natural thing for those who're the most successful or have the highest profile to get more heat and suffer more scrutiny, whether they're famous persons or large companies.
It's as much interesting to see how a Microsoft is relatively more the subject of widespread criticism than a Google or Apple who're as successful as Microsoft. It seems that if a company in general is perceived as having a bad influence on the field they're in or aiding in steering that field into a wrong directon, then they become the subject of more heat among larger groups of people.
So it's not that strange that it's often the veterans who've played and enjoyed other MMO's next to WoW that can see the good as well as the bad influence that Blizzard's direction with WoW and WoW's gameplay elements has on the total MMO genre. These people are more likely to be critical of WoW's position on the MMO market than the players who've only played or only enjoy WoW and nothing else.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And this.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nothing is preventing you from playing those "special" ones and stop hating a game for taking the market by storm.
Everyone of the special ones are there for the grabs. Play them and enjoy them.
Apparently you don't ... and can't but complain... Ever wondered why?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
"Some" people hate WoW just like they hate anything that is successful. It's partially because of jealousy, partially because it makes them look "cool" to their usual kindergarten level audience.
People hate WoW for the same reason people hate Avatar - it makes them feel "special". And they are special indeed, but not for the reason they would like to.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
people hate wow because they are the YANKEES of baseball, they are the rich. and they always win.
live long and prosper
strength and honor
if urgent do it yourself
if you have time-delegate it
if you have forever-form a committee
TheHatter: "In WoW, if you do PVP you're just wasting time and piddling around for fun. If you leveled up to 80 and spent time farming to have fun PVPing in WoW, then that's you. I'd rather just play a FPS."
Excepting the skills you learn which could apply to real-world activities, what part of gaming isn't "wasting time and piddling around for fun"?
Nothing about permanent territorial acquisition is less of a "mini-game" than WOW PVP, excepting how its presented and the timeframe it takes place in.
TheHatter: "On top of that, the combat is turn based. Yep, it's hidden, but if you pay close attention, it's turn based."
Combat is realtime, period. It may have roots in turn-based gaming, but really if you want to abstract things in your mind all games can be thought of in turn-based terms.
TheHatter: "The crafting system is absolutely horrible. It's not Warhammer bad, but it's pretty freaking close. Granted, they have done a little bit to increase it's usefulness as the years have gone by, but it's still a really bad system compared to anything that was half way decent."
With the exception of crafting-centric games like Haven & Hearth and ATITD, I've enjoyed my current char's Tailoring+Enchanting combo more than crafting in any other game. Great synergy, and nice utility added to the groups I join.
The worst is when crafting is critical to gameplay (and therefore unavoidable) and also tedious (and therefore unavoidably bad.) Mining in WOW might be tedious, but EVE/DF's gathering skills make it look like an absolute joy in comparison.
Khalathwyr: "I don't hate WoW. I'm tired of MMO companies thinking that they have to emulate WoW closely in order to make money which narrows down greatly the scope of the types of gameplay/mechanics I as an MMO gamer have to choose from."
I'd agree with this. There are some great game design traits to learn from WOW, but they don't apply to every game, and sometimes being different for the sake of being different is good.
Much as I like WOW, I wish other developers would learn to make new fun games.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver