The reason many people end up like holden is not that the grind is horrible,its that every single skill & area of the game becomes one because its more or less the same repetitive actions over and over. It doesnt matter if your working a combat skill, or generating resources via harvesting, or crafting. Every aspect is a huge time consuming repetitive action that frankly blurs together for most people, and what enjoyment that they do recieve, tends to fade.
You say to change it, to make skills less of an issue and progress faster is dumbing down the game. For me, i say that without some kind of change, then there is no reason to play darkfall, because i have no interest in doing repetitive tedious boring actions because AV cant or wont figure out how to create a more enjoyable game out of its non pvp aspects. People are not going to invest time into a game where repetitive actions are dominant and the gameplay frankly is not even that fun after you have swung your weapon twenty two thousand times at some mob, or swung a pickaxe or woodaxe at a tree for the ten thousandth time.
I left after 4 months last november, with a charecter i had spent 400k worth of resoruces on, and i was still less then 30% from a complete charecter. i was competitive in that i had archery mastery, 1h mastery, 2h mastery, fire & earth at high levels. It had nothing to do with the PVP or clan warfare part of DFO. The reason for leaving was sheer boredom and tedious nature of the other aspects of the game.
darkfall is a great clan warfare & pvp game, but unless it resolves the fundamental flaws in its design on the individual level, the majority of people who would support this game, never will.
Great post.
What I find sad is how many people defend the grind by claiming that the game would die without it - as if that's all there is to DF. What those players fail to realize is that if the game were actively populated and hunting for fights, the PVP in itself would heighten all of the currently available content to a far more enjoyable degree.
As it stands, grinding for months just so you can fight the 10 folks who raid your city every other week isn't exactly appealing (disclaimer: exaggeratoin is fun!). I just don't get how those folks don't realize that concept. Then again, I'd be more willing to guess that in fact they do, but refuse to give up their position as top of a food chain that's slowly dying off, and will eventually make them extinct.
Shame really. DF could be such an amazing game.
The layering or stratification of PVP player levels, is just another side effect of the flaws that are inherent on the individual player level of the game. There is no doubt that a portion of the advanced players only want to keep the status quo because they are at the top of the pile. Just as a certain portion of the less advantaged want a easier time because they have no real desire to work to advance. The sad part is that DF does not promote competitive pvp, it promotes stratified layers, where the strong group with the strong and prey on the weak. Sure,its fun to beat down someone from time tot ime just for kicks. However most PVP players really want the enviroment to improve and compete against quality opponents. Otherwise we would all be playing the chase the "purples" games that exist on the pve MMO landscape.
Unfortuntely players are right in that without the mindless grind that exists on the charecter development aspect of the game, the game would die. Thats because the game has nothing to substitute for it, even after a year. AV additionally, really has no concept of how to create FPS style pvp enviroments or supporting aspects to reinforce PVP at all levels, ad-hoc,raids & sieges.
Frankly, i wanted to see more strategic and tactical elements ala eve or other games incorporated into DF. Without an economic system the game lacks in alot of ways. People complain about lack of pvp, but the developers do not seem to understand how to create gameplay elements to generate ad-hoc pvp hotspots. Look at the villages implimmentation for a perfect example of how not do to it.
What I find sad is how many people defend the grind by claiming that the game would die without it - as if that's all there is to DF. What those players fail to realize is that if the game were actively populated and players were out hunting for fights (and had people to find!), the PVP in itself would heighten all of the currently available content to a far more enjoyable degree.
Darkfall already have all the content a pvper need, and the game would do fine if AV focused on those players. Sadly they try to make a game for bouth groups, and that`s where they fail. Darkfall becomes a deformed game and bouth groups are unhappy. AV have to decide who this game is for. If they want this game to be a pvp game with massive battles, they need to reduce the grind. If they want this game to be a pve game they have to make safe zones and remove the full-loot. You simply can`t have a full-loot game and huge level cap.
I know Darkfall have enough pvp content to make the game last for years, but I don`t think we have enough pve content to satify the pve players for more than a few months. When the novelity of the advanced AI wears off, the pve players are out. The pvp players leave because of the grind.
You can see this in the game today. We have a small group of pvp vets, some people who like the game only because it have a huge grind and some newbie pvpers like Holdenhamlets. Sure we get a visit from the occasional "OMG this is the best game I ever tried, the pve is awsome", but they usually leave after a month.
I hope AV will focus on the pvp group of players, simply because we don`t have any other game. We think DF have enought content and we just want more pvpers. We know the grind is keeping the pvp players away from DF and that`s why we want it reduced.
Well, it turns out it is much worse than other decent MMORPGs. In most other games, you can reach soemthing approaching max level after a month, or at least say 75% of the way there. I don't even really feel 25% of the way there in Darkfall..
I bought into all the guides and fans that said you can have a pvp viable character in a month or so. I guess THEORETICALLY I could kill a veteren with decent archery and 2h mastery but it's never going to happen in reality.
"In most other games, you can reach soemthing approaching max level after a month."
Definition of max level aside, what flipping game can you approach MAX level in just one (1) month????
What I find sad is how many people defend the grind by claiming that the game would die without it - as if that's all there is to DF. What those players fail to realize is that if the game were actively populated and players were out hunting for fights (and had people to find!), the PVP in itself would heighten all of the currently available content to a far more enjoyable degree.
Darkfall already have all the content a pvper need, and the game would do fine if AV focused on those players.
ss Darkfall does have all the content a PvP'r needs, and some could say the same about Global Agenda, and that is where Darkfall content appeal came to a screeching halt for me. The game-play is shallow; as shallow as playing the same Battlefield content over and over.
I'm looking at Xsyon and hope that it has less of a singular pvp-rule content mindset, and expands the horizon of community game-play and interdependence beyond the isolated scope of siege warfare and with a softcap that makes the playing-field more palletable.
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
Darkfall is very "old school". There IS a lot of grind. I'm not going to sit here and try "minimalize" the grind in Darkfall. It sucks at times. I feel it too. A lot could be done to make PvE and the grind more fun. But for me, the good still out weighs the bad.
I wonder however, if people aren't over exaggerating the time it takes for a Character to compete with the vets (someone who has played for a year).
In Wow (a game notorious for being easy) how long does it take to become "competitive" against a vet?
So how long does it take to get level 80? I want to say a month for the hardcore players, two for the more casual.
Once you make level 80 are you even then "competitive"? I seem to remember another couple months of "gearing" up to become pvp viable.
For me (it's been a while) I might expect to have my first Character to cap in about two months of playing and be decently geared after another 1 or 2 months.
So according to my rough estimate, I could be playing with the Bigboys in Wow within 4-5 months.
Okay, that seems acceptable, but again, we're talking Wow here...
What about Eve? After two months in Eve, the best I could really hope for is to have a ROLE. Like in Darkfall, a two month old player has only begun to scratch at the surface. He's not even CLOSE to being endgame ready/competitive.
But, he can certainly be "useful"... in a role.. as long as he doesn't expect to do it all.
After two months in Darkfall (with no macro'ing) I too can have a role. I swing or shoot away as I can. I parry up when targetted. I try to make more of a nuisance to my enemies than I do to my friends. I act as a meat shield. I revive and I gank. I scout and act as eyes and ears. I heal my friend's mounts. I heal my friends (when they aren't moving around the battlefield like madmen). I act as bait. I call for help when jumped.
Its not perfect and yes, I'd like to be MORE competitive against the vets, but I'm not exactly seeing the HUGE disparity between a two month Character in Darkfall and a two month Character in many other games.
A two month old Character in either game doesn't stand much of a chance against a vet. I'm not even sure you can say that a two month old Character in Wow has much chance against someone whose been playing for a year or more.
But what about at six months?
In Eve I started feeling competitive after hitting the six month mark. In Darkfall, I'm hoping it's about the same. Will I expect to have a 50/50 chance against someone who has played the game for a year and a half in Darkfall? Probably not. But thats one of the things I like about both games.
In Darkfall and in Eve (to a lesser extent), I feel my "levels" have been earned. I have the scars to prove it. Nothing has been handed to me. Noone has held my hand (and no I'm not immune to frustration or impatience), I however, don't mind taking the longer view.
Now.. all that said. That does not mean I don't think Darkfall shouldn't change some things and improve in others. Yes, I feel they could tweek the skill ups a bit, make it just a little faster. Yes the grind can wear you down, but we also have it in our power to minimalize the grind. To mix it up.
I left the starter town on day three and went Newbie Raiding. Until I joined a Clan, I spent my first month bound to a Chaos Stone and using Wilderness Banks. Not the most "efficient" use of my time, but I had fun and got to experience PvP of a kind from the getgo.
As it is, I grind in doses and when I'm in the mood for it (and sometimes not). I go looking for a fight when I'm in the mood for it. Unlike some of the local trolls, I never felt the need to calculate how many thousands of PvE kills I would need before I could even think about PvPing.
I might be slower than your average hare, but like the tortoise, I'm pretty sure I'm going to end the race.. ganking as I go.
Well said bud, wish more folks had the same mindset you do. I'm going on 4months in and still having a blast everytime I log in. I don't do much pvp yet but I know its coming once I'm trained and ready. Darkfall is probly the most fun I've had playing an MMO since trying EQ1 for the first time. Hopefully AV gives us some good updates this year to show the folks whining and complaining that DFO is far from dead :-) Meanwhile I'll continue to become stronger to prepare for my big move to a successfull clan.
Well, it turns out it is much worse than other decent MMORPGs. In most other games, you can reach soemthing approaching max level after a month, or at least say 75% of the way there. I don't even really feel 25% of the way there in Darkfall..
I bought into all the guides and fans that said you can have a pvp viable character in a month or so. I guess THEORETICALLY I could kill a veteren with decent archery and 2h mastery but it's never going to happen in reality.
"In most other games, you can reach soemthing approaching max level after a month."
Definition of max level aside, what flipping game can you approach MAX level in just one (1) month????
LOTRO, WoW before the latest expansion, STO (lol, one week for STO), Warhammer you can get pretty high if not max in a month, probably some others I can't think of.
The sad part is that DF does not promote competitive pvp, it promotes stratified layers, where the strong group with the strong and prey on the weak.
^ This is really true. A very good example of this is that every skill is basically useless until you reach "a goal", and then suddenly it becomes worthwhile. After grinding witchcraft for 3 weeks, and having it at 45, it is basically exactly as useful as it was when I started. There is no feeling of improvement or getting stronger as you level, until you hit 75, then suddenly it's useful. After 3 weeks of working on a skill, it's no more useful to me in practice than not having the skill to begin with.
Same for weapon mastery, archery and basically every magic school which each has their own seperate goals. This seperates eveyone into two groups- those that have achieved a certain amount of these goals and those that have not. There is no in-between and if you haven't achieved the bare minimum goals, you are roughly as competative as a day 1 player, in practice.
I really love the idea of getting better in certain skills by using them, but the way Darkfall has it set up is: "you become more powerful after you have used a skill 10,000 times and not before". That's not even mentioning the fact that the best way to make meaninful progress is to grind on one mob like the hivequeen, afk swimming or afk macroing- none of which could really be considered "playing the game" by anyone reasonable.
The reason why the leveling system is so popular in MMORPGs is because after a day or two of playing, you "level up" and you can see definite improvement in how strong you are. The carrot on the stick is reachable fairly easily, and then you get a new carrot. In Darkfall, it basically takes 2-3 weeks to "level up" in one single skill, and even then one skill is only one part of maybe 10 basic skills you need to be competative. Until you get all 10 of those skills "leveled up", you will be rofl-stomped by any vet pretty much as easily as a day 1 gets roflstomped, and even then you will be at a severe disadvantage against someone that has leveled 20 skills to their "goal".
Darkfall is sorely lacking in the gratification of becoming visibly stronger, which is the hallmark of all MMORPGs. In Darkfall, you only get half a carrot every 2 weeks, and you don't get the full carrot, which is meaningful and observable strength in the point of the game (the point of Darkfall is pvp) until 3 months in, at the very earilest.
In most MMORPGs, every couple days you can say, "Ding!" and receive "grats" from your clanmates. In Darkfall you're not likely to say, "woot 2.3 increase in one skill after investing 16 hours into it by trying not to kill the exact same mob to maximise gains, neglecting improvement in every other skill or stat, participating in no storyline besides the ongoing story of me getting my ass kicked by everyone else, and it's exactly as useful as two days ago, not to mention the fact that I am in no measurable way stronger against other players! Maybe in 3 weeks the skill will actually be useful, but on its own it will not represent meaningful improvement against other players!"
And then you have smug vets like xipher coming in and saying, "There is no grind really in Darkfall." Lol...
Before I played Darkfall, I thought surely ffxi would be the biggest grind I would ever experience in an MMORPG. However, you level up every day or three in ffxi, meaning getting stronger in every area, you usually get a new spell, and often access to new special side quests (like the subjob quest, chocobo quest, artifact armor quests, Maat, the epic storyline quests or the like). That's not to mention that you progress by actually killing mobs and working together with other people, so the time spent is far less boring.
It's true ffxi is a pve only game, and I really do prefer meaningful pvp to pve, but as far as just the grind and how often you feel actually stronger and rewarded for your efforts, ffxi is a total piece of cake compared to Darkfall.
Actually no. Most games have a good 6 month grind with gear addded in.
DFO by contrast is faster if you focus on the right abilities and then understand that PvP isw more complex in this game than others. if you assume you are getting wiped because someone just "has higher stats" than you, then you really don't understand the game mechanics.
Also, skills rank up slowly and generally linearly. The damage increases as you skill-up. Just because you have a 'goal' of 75 WC does not mean that it is useless until then. The lower level spells are certainly useful IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.
It sounds to me like you got your ass kick then started reading the useless drivel on the forums. Instead of fighting good players and talking to them and learning you game tot he forums and started spouting more non-sense.
In the official darkfall forum, in the player section, they made a thread to honor the OP. It seem like he was in the road to be a really known darkfall player. All players there agree with his feelings exept one player and that is Xpiher.
That's not true - there are many of us in the official forums (and here) that don't want the game dumbed down to cater to a player base that doesn't want a challenging game. They want a 2 month path to uberville plain and simple.
Even in Wow it can take months pf grinding to get to a competitve point in PVP - after you suffer through getting to 80 you have the most boring repetitive endless grind of dungeon after dungeon after dungeon to get Epic gear - only to have to repeat the process when the next seasons uber fashions are announced. And Darkfall's grind sucks? Gimme a break.
The reason many people end up like holden is not that the grind is horrible,its that every single skill & area of the game becomes one because its more or less the same repetitive actions over and over. It doesnt matter if your working a combat skill, or generating resources via harvesting, or crafting. Every aspect is a huge time consuming repetitive action that frankly blurs together for most people, and what enjoyment that they do recieve, tends to fade.
You say to change it, to make skills less of an issue and progress faster is dumbing down the game. For me, i say that without some kind of change, then there is no reason to play darkfall, because i have no interest in doing repetitive tedious boring actions because AV cant or wont figure out how to create a more enjoyable game out of its non pvp aspects. People are not going to invest time into a game where repetitive actions are dominant and the gameplay frankly is not even that fun after you have swung your weapon twenty two thousand times at some mob, or swung a pickaxe or woodaxe at a tree for the ten thousandth time.
I left after 4 months last november, with a charecter i had spent 400k worth of resoruces on, and i was still less then 30% from a complete charecter. i was competitive in that i had archery mastery, 1h mastery, 2h mastery, fire & earth at high levels. It had nothing to do with the PVP or clan warfare part of DFO. The reason for leaving was sheer boredom and tedious nature of the other aspects of the game.
darkfall is a great clan warfare & pvp game, but unless it resolves the fundamental flaws in its design on the individual level, the majority of people who would support this game, never will.
That pretty much describes almost every MMO i have every played since the 1990's
Actually no. Most games have a good 6 month grind with gear addded in.
DFO by contrast is faster if you focus on the right abilities and then understand that PvP isw more complex in this game than others. if you assume you are getting wiped because someone just "has higher stats" than you, then you really don't understand the game mechanics.
Also, skills rank up slowly and generally linearly. The damage increases as you skill-up. Just because you have a 'goal' of 75 WC does not mean that it is useless until then. The lower level spells are certainly useful IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.
It sounds to me like you got your ass kick then started reading the useless drivel on the forums. Instead of fighting good players and talking to them and learning you game tot he forums and started spouting more non-sense.
First of all, those are PVE games, so during your one month to max you're invovled in a story and often fighting in groups to beat bosses and other fun things. Then yes, there's usually a gear grind at the end, but it involves pvp and raids, and that's not to mention that you won't be three shot by anybody if you're max level in any mmorpg.
In Darkfall for 6 months you're using an auto-clicker to cast spells over and over on the hivequeen. No stories, no quests- which is fine for a pvp game IF YOU COULD PVP COMPETETATIVELY WITHIN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME, BY DOING A REASONABLE SET OF ACTIVITIES. I don't consider casting a spell over and over for 6 months using a macro while I watch TV to be "hardcore", or burning out my computer while I swim up against a rock to be hardcore. I consider it god-awful boring.
THE AMOUNT OF TIME REQUIRED IS ALMOST IRRELEVANT, IT'S WHAT YOU'RE FORCED TO DO DURING THAT TIME TO MEANINGFULLY PROGRESS THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
If I had fun grinding then I wouldn't mind if it took 2 years to become competative. The novelty of the combat wore off after 3 weeks though.
And no, I get my ass kicked because they have 200 more hp than me, have one-handed mastery and fight on a battlehorn, and they have high elemental magic. But yes, them having 3 times as much vit makes a difference. Do you disagree?
The point of witchcraft is to get witch's brew and unlock the next one (I think it's necromancy, can't remember because I don't play anymore). Before that, it's basically useless. If you're telling me that having needles at level 20 is going to significantly help you in a pvp encounter, you're full of it.
Weapon mastery makes a huge difference and you can't achieve that until 75. You can't get your elemental nukes until 50 in each school.
You're telling me that having 20 fire magic is significantly more helpful in a pvp fight than having 0 fire magic? No, what's signifantly helpful is having fireball and surging magic.
You totally just disregarded my point about how Darkfall doesn't significantly reward effort and instead decide to characterize me instead of responding rationally to my point. Typical smug vet attitude.
***
If what you say is true, then I should have a signficantly increased chance against a vet with 50 GS (not mastery), 50 archery, r10 weapons, 20 witchcraft, all transfer spells at level 10 or so, with 225 hp, compared to say a day 1 player. These things I just mentioned is what you can hope to achieve after 3 weeks. If there is incremental increase in strength, I should be able to notice an increase in competativeness. There is no noticable increase though in reality. You're just wrong and it sounds like your fanboism is getting in the way of your view of the reality of the game.
***
The reason posts like yours are upsetting and not helpful is because I believed them. I forked over 50 bucks on this thing thinking I would be stronger after a month, and during that month I followed all advice and grinded maybe 8 hours a day. I afk swam for like a week. I even worked a trial alt to gather resources so I could make my own armor and r20 weapons. I am not noticably stronger than I was on day 1 against a vet, so I feel you and others that post what you post have misled me, and then you go on to insult me on top of it and claim there's just something wrong with my perception, and really I am competative. It's BS and it doesn't help the game.
The more you smug lying vets post about the game the more pissed off I get about this game.
If you stick with one weapon for three weeks and played for 8 hours a day you should be higher in skill then 50 (non-mastery).
I just changed weapons and in about two weeks of 2-4 hours a days am over 50. I wasn't even focusing completely on that one weapon either.
I do believe that if you play that much and focus on ONE weapon and have someone that can supply you with R50 or so weapon and decent armor in a month or two you could take down "some" of the vets. A lot of who wins in this game is who gets the jump (first few hits and is prepared (geared/food/buffed/etc.)) or who has more people in MOST cases.
Yes, there are always going to be an elite group that you just aren't likely to ever likely to be able to compete with. Especially, considering afk macroning and how long the game has been out.
Yeah, I get my ass kicked in sometimes by someone running around naked with a high ranked weapon that has been playing A LOT longer then I have. But sometimes I get the jump on someone that would otherwise be able to take me down and they die instead.
I don't think there are THAT many people that have 200 more HP then you. I would say most of the people i encounter are around 330HP. I have only met a few over 400.
So, in reality if you get a mastery to around 50 and have a decent rank weapon that is on a few hit difference to the average player. Yeah, someone in infernal gear all buffed up with max everything is going to kill you pretty much no matter what.
In the official darkfall forum, in the player section, they made a thread to honor the OP. It seem like he was in the road to be a really known darkfall player. All players there agree with his feelings exept one player and that is Xpiher.
That's not true - there are many of us in the official forums (and here) that don't want the game dumbed down to cater to a player base that doesn't want a challenging game. They want a 2 month path to uberville plain and simple.
Even in Wow it can take months pf grinding to get to a competitve point in PVP - after you suffer through getting to 80 you have the most boring repetitive endless grind of dungeon after dungeon after dungeon to get Epic gear - only to have to repeat the process when the next seasons uber fashions are announced. And Darkfall's grind sucks? Gimme a break.
The reason many people end up like holden is not that the grind is horrible,its that every single skill & area of the game becomes one because its more or less the same repetitive actions over and over. It doesnt matter if your working a combat skill, or generating resources via harvesting, or crafting. Every aspect is a huge time consuming repetitive action that frankly blurs together for most people, and what enjoyment that they do recieve, tends to fade.
You say to change it, to make skills less of an issue and progress faster is dumbing down the game. For me, i say that without some kind of change, then there is no reason to play darkfall, because i have no interest in doing repetitive tedious boring actions because AV cant or wont figure out how to create a more enjoyable game out of its non pvp aspects. People are not going to invest time into a game where repetitive actions are dominant and the gameplay frankly is not even that fun after you have swung your weapon twenty two thousand times at some mob, or swung a pickaxe or woodaxe at a tree for the ten thousandth time.
I left after 4 months last november, with a charecter i had spent 400k worth of resoruces on, and i was still less then 30% from a complete charecter. i was competitive in that i had archery mastery, 1h mastery, 2h mastery, fire & earth at high levels. It had nothing to do with the PVP or clan warfare part of DFO. The reason for leaving was sheer boredom and tedious nature of the other aspects of the game.
darkfall is a great clan warfare & pvp game, but unless it resolves the fundamental flaws in its design on the individual level, the majority of people who would support this game, never will.
That pretty much describes almost every MMO i have every played since the 1990's
The highlighted stuff is almost word for word what my definition of grind is..........
I just will never understand why there are so many people resistant to the idea of reducing the grind in this game. If people were to reach a competitive level more quickly, they would be actively involved in PvP and the whole game world would benefit. There would still be PLENTY to work for since gear would be lost more frequently due to the increased PvP. People would still have to grind for materials and crafting skills and they would still have to spend massive amounts of time in game to get anywhere... but it would be far far less boring and infuriating than it currently is.
The veterans would still have a major advantage because they would have tons of money, better gear, territorial control, and superior knowledge of the game. They would still win against newer players as long as they played well. They don't need the ridiculous stat/skill advantages on top of that...
As soon as another open style game comes out (MO, Earthrise) DF will likely die.
The vets will continue to tout that there is no grind, that 50 weapon mastery conquers all grind (LOL), health doesn't matter and other BS that means nothing to a new player in the trial or first month who just wants to have some fun.
They continue to claim everything is fine, yet nobody plays the game and half the people who do are AFK swimming in the hope that maybe one day in 3 months they will get 5 shotted instead of 3 shotted.
Its just such a shame that a mmo that finally has some marginally decent combat mechanics has embraced such a crippling monotonous grind that vet players can hide behind.
Its just such a shame that a mmo that finally has some marginally decent combat mechanics has embraced such a crippling monotonous grind that vet players can hide behind.
And that's why I still post about Darkfall.
The game's just so damned fun, except for its grind. That, and I paid for the game just like any of these other pricks who think they own the game because they like it.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I am not a "vet" of this game and I am enjoying the game. I haven't played the game since release and I don't afk macro.
I have played about 4-6 days a week about 2-4 hours a night. After about four months of playing I am starting to be able to do a lot more.
There are still a lot of newer players that have been around as long as I have +or- that I do have fun pvp with. I am also able to compete with some of players that have been around longer. But there are certainly long time players that I can't compete with. Also, most battles tend to be non-competitive usually based on who surprised whom.
But that doesn't stop the game from being fun.
You guys complaining about the grind. I just don't understand. I have played just about every freaking game out there and every damn one is a grind.
Just because you have a quest doesn't mean it isn't a grind. This is a mob grinder. Other games are quest grinders. It is the same shit.
I don't feel this game significantly advances any faster or slower then any other game particularly is you stick with one play style. Yeah, if you want everything maxed it is VERY much a grind but you can compete without just one area maxed. Are you going to win all the time, hell no, but that is as it should be.
Personally, I would rather have a mob grinder that has the pvp free loot tossed in take make the game feel more threatening.
I think it is more of a preference I guess. But I will say this last update they did add some more quests that I was surprised to find. So, they may intend on adding more but I don't expect they will be anything more then go kill this or that mob or collect it from them.
I don't think this game is perfect either. There just really isn't that much out there at the moment and there certainly isn't much out there like this.
If you stick with one weapon for three weeks and played for 8 hours a day you should be higher in skill then 50 (non-mastery).
I just changed weapons and in about two weeks of 2-4 hours a days am over 50. I wasn't even focusing completely on that one weapon either.
I do believe that if you play that much and focus on ONE weapon and have someone that can supply you with R50 or so weapon and decent armor in a month or two you could take down "some" of the vets. A lot of who wins in this game is who gets the jump (first few hits and is prepared (geared/food/buffed/etc.)) or who has more people in MOST cases.
Yes, there are always going to be an elite group that you just aren't likely to ever likely to be able to compete with. Especially, considering afk macroning and how long the game has been out.
Yeah, I get my ass kicked in sometimes by someone running around naked with a high ranked weapon that has been playing A LOT longer then I have. But sometimes I get the jump on someone that would otherwise be able to take me down and they die instead.
I don't think there are THAT many people that have 200 more HP then you. I would say most of the people i encounter are around 330HP. I have only met a few over 400.
So, in reality if you get a mastery to around 50 and have a decent rank weapon that is on a few hit difference to the average player. Yeah, someone in infernal gear all buffed up with max everything is going to kill you pretty much no matter what.
To respond in cooresponding colors to what's highlighted above:
Yes that's true, but you'd be neglecting archery, magic and any crafting goals you might have. I did get greatsword mastery after 3 weeks while still getting greater magic up and archery up and some crafting done, but I played a hell of a lot to get it, much more than what should be expected from a game. 8-14 hours a day to be honest.
Possbily, but only if they too only used melee, weren't on a mount, didn't use archery, didn't have or use any buffs, doesn't use any of his high level healing and transfer spells, and didn't use any elemental magic and you are good enough to get 5 extra hits on them to make up the HP difference... Not likely to happen. Theoretically yes but not in practice. Even as unlikely as it is (probably impossible unless the vet was afk or something or so high on cough syrup he totally forgets that he has access to mount fighting, archery, high level healing ability, powerful buffs, powerful debuffs and devestating offensive magic), the entire idea requires someone giving you very powerful weapons and armor. You can't even test the theory without significant help from someone else.
You seriously expect to walk into a fight with 2h mastery, a cooked fish and level 30 heal self against a vet and win? I don't care if somene hands you infernal armor and an r85 weapon it's not going to happen. Even if he uses just launch and archery, you won't get close enough to hit the guy.
If I afk swam every night, which is the only way I can gain hp while I am working on magic, it would still take me roughly 3-4 more months to get 330 hp unbuffed. If I want to gain it legitmately, I can't focus on magic because there is zero hp gains from using magic, and I have only so much time online to play (unless I never sleep and can spend 12 hours on magic and 12 hours just shooting things with arrows). Unfortunately magic is by far the most powerful ability overall in the game (although you seem to think 2 handed mastery is).
I can get someone to ~50 mastery in about 6-9 hours of play.
If you can't find PvP at your skill level you are not very creative. If I am with a group off new guiys do i go raid Blackshields city? no. I pick easier prey there are lots of easier guilds out there that are clearly in the skill range of our newer players.
If you are getting 3 shot everytime you PvP then you seriously need to learn the game mechanics. I know guys with 240 HP and no mastery who can regularly take down vets. Clearly you would end up being one of those people who have 400 HP and still can't win a fight.
let me be clear the differnece between new guys and vets is not one off stats/skills. It lies in the ability for playres to cross heal, focus fire, and not showing the enemy your back. I see 'skilled-up' vets do this all the time. They still get thier asses handed to them.
I findd it ironic how someone says that WoW raiding is "fun" then complains about DFO being repetetive. I have never been more bored in my life than the third time running an instance in WoW. Hint: when you can write a bot script to do it, it is repetetive. Likewise I find killing the dragon, farming a vareity of mats for enchants with the risk of PvP far more rewarding than all of the shiny "purplez" in WoW put together.
I can get someone to ~50 mastery in about 6-9 hours of play.
If you can't find PvP at your skill level you are not very creative. If I am with a group off new guiys do i go raid Blackshields city? no. I pick easier prey there are lots of easier guilds out there that are clearly in the skill range of our newer players.
If you are getting 3 shot everytime you PvP then you seriously need to learn the game mechanics. I know guys with 240 HP and no mastery who can regularly take down vets. Clearly you would end up being one of those people who have 400 HP and still can't win a fight.
let me be clear the differnece between new guys and vets is not one off stats/skills. It lies in the ability for playres to cross heal, focus fire, and not showing the enemy your back. I see 'skilled-up' vets do this all the time. They still get thier asses handed to them.
I findd it ironic how someone says that WoW raiding is "fun" then complains about DFO being repetetive. I have never been more bored in my life than the third time running an instance in WoW. Hint: when you can write a bot script to do it, it is repetetive. Likewise I find killing the dragon, farming a vareity of mats for enchants with the risk of PvP far more rewarding than all of the shiny "purplez" in WoW put together.
How exactly do you get someone from zero to 50 mastery in 6 hours? I guess it's theoretically possible but I wasn't fortunate enough to walk into the game with poweleveling guildies at my disposal, nor are most people.
Cross heal and focus fire what exactly? This theoretical newb with the gs mastery has no ranged abilities nor heals beyond heal self. Besides you're talking about group pvp and we're talking about a solo encounter.
As for "not knowing the game mechanics", it hardly applies when some guy rides in on a mount when I'm spending 8 hours trying to increase a spell by 2 points by casting it on the same mob over and over, and kills me in 3 hits and I have no way to fight back besides an ineffectual 2hander. I hardly see how that translates into me being a bad player. If you have some tips that don't involve traveling around with 2 vets to heal me and powerlevel me as to how to fight back, I'd love to hear them.
But thanks for the insulting post confirming the internet message board maxium of, "When you can't respond rationally, resort to mischaracterization and e-peen showboating."
btw, I never said raiding in WoW was fun, but it is sure a hell of a lot more fun than shooting spells at the hivequeen (which many people DO write scripts for).
I can get someone to ~50 mastery in about 6-9 hours of play.
If you can't find PvP at your skill level you are not very creative. If I am with a group off new guiys do i go raid Blackshields city? no. I pick easier prey there are lots of easier guilds out there that are clearly in the skill range of our newer players.
If you are getting 3 shot everytime you PvP then you seriously need to learn the game mechanics. I know guys with 240 HP and no mastery who can regularly take down vets. Clearly you would end up being one of those people who have 400 HP and still can't win a fight.
let me be clear the differnece between new guys and vets is not one off stats/skills. It lies in the ability for playres to cross heal, focus fire, and not showing the enemy your back. I see 'skilled-up' vets do this all the time. They still get thier asses handed to them.
I findd it ironic how someone says that WoW raiding is "fun" then complains about DFO being repetetive. I have never been more bored in my life than the third time running an instance in WoW. Hint: when you can write a bot script to do it, it is repetetive. Likewise I find killing the dragon, farming a vareity of mats for enchants with the risk of PvP far more rewarding than all of the shiny "purplez" in WoW put together.
How exactly do you get someone from zero to 50 mastery in 6 hours? I guess it's theoretically possible but I wasn't fortunate enough to walk into the game with poweleveling guildies at my disposal, nor are most people.
Cross heal and focus fire what exactly? This theoretical newb with the gs mastery has no ranged abilities nor heals beyond heal self. Besides you're talking about group pvp and we're talking about a solo encounter.
As for "not knowing the game mechanics", it hardly applies when some guy rides in on a mount when I'm spending 8 hours trying to increase a spell by 2 points by casting it on the same mob over and over, and kills me in 3 hits and I have no way to fight back besides an ineffectual 2hander. I hardly see how that translates into me being a bad player. If you have some tips that don't involve traveling around with 2 vets to heal me and powerlevel me as to how to fight back, I'd love to hear them.
But thanks for the insulting post confirming the internet message board maxium of, "When you can't respond rationally, resort to mischaracterization and e-peen showboating."
btw, I never said raiding in WoW was fun, but it is sure a hell of a lot more fun than shooting spells at the hivequeen (which many people DO write scripts for).
Wow man, you (holden) remind me of me just after I quit. It's kinda creepy.
Best I can tell you is just to let it ride. It sucks, but at least you didn't buy the 6 month "deal" that I did. I'm still hanging in there hoping that in my last 2 months of sub I can get a little playtime in if they change anything worth checking out. Doubtful, but still.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Well said bud, wish more folks had the same mindset you do. I'm going on 4months in and still having a blast everytime I log in. I don't do much pvp yet but I know its coming once I'm trained and ready.
Haha maybe you are tolling, but I`ll take the bate.
So you have grinded mobs for 4 months in a pvp mmo and you are still not ready to pvp?
This just show how how much Darkfall have failed as a game, and why the pvpers stay away. Darkfall isn`t for the pvpers or the pveers. The grinders have stolen Darkfall from us, and they are defending it like a baby. Just listen to yourself, you are having a blast doing nothing but grind. You are a grinder. You don`t even play the game.
You can hope you`ll one day see the pvp we older players had , but sadly you can`t be sure. Right now there is no real Darkfall with large battles and sieges. I stopped playing Darkfall a few weeks ago. Now I`m only online killing npcs, harvesting and macro my spells. And no, that`s not the Darkfall I knew, it`s just another grinder.
That pretty much describes almost every MMO i have every played since the 1990's
Stux, your correct in what you state. however most MMO's at least attempt to provide some entertainment factor in the repetitive action business that is refered to as grind, whether its story, or shiney loots, or sense of accomplishment because of the challange. Darkfall though, basically informs you that you have to preform these repetitive actions while not enjoying it for many of us, especially due to the circumstances in which they occur just to get to the aspects we do enjoy. personally, i felt no challange in the PVE aspect of the game, it was the same as mining or harvesting. It was not something i hated either, more something i tolerated for the sake of the pvp aspects of the game.
Holden, is typical of a player who wants to try something new, but gives up, because he realizes early on that the game is just not going to entertain him, and he has to slog through the really tedious crap up front to potentially be entertained at some future yet undetermined date. The only negative i can state about him, is that he probably spent so much time generating resources and on charecter development, that he really never gained much skill in the player skill aspects of pvp, and learning the game mechanics in and out, which does create an advantage.
Well said bud, wish more folks had the same mindset you do. I'm going on 4months in and still having a blast everytime I log in. I don't do much pvp yet but I know its coming once I'm trained and ready.
Haha maybe you are tolling, but I`ll take the bate.
So you have grinded mobs for 4 months in a pvp mmo and you are still not ready to pvp?
This just show how how much Darkfall have failed as a game, and why the pvpers stay away. Darkfall isn`t for the pvpers or the pveers. The grinders have stolen Darkfall from us, and they are defending it like a baby. Just listen to yourself, you are having a blast doing nothing but grind. You are a grinder. You don`t even play the game.
You can hope you`ll one day see the pvp we older players had , but sadly you can`t be sure. Right now there is no real Darkfall with large battles and sieges. I stopped playing Darkfall a few weeks ago. Now I`m only online killing npcs, harvesting and macro my spells. And no, that`s not the Darkfall I knew, it`s just another grinder.
If after 4 months you aren't PvP ready you are doing something wrong
If after 4 months you aren't PvP ready you are doing something wrong
I agree. He should've AFK swam, macro'd, and paid Aventurine to hit rocks all day while not paying attention, according to you. Clearly, not playing the game you choose to play should be the premier way to make progress.
Seriously, who made you the authority on all things Darkfall?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
How exactly do you get someone from zero to 50 mastery in 6 hours? I guess it's theoretically possible but I wasn't fortunate enough to walk into the game with poweleveling guildies at my disposal, nor are most people.
Cross heal and focus fire what exactly? This theoretical newb with the gs mastery has no ranged abilities nor heals beyond heal self. Besides you're talking about group pvp and we're talking about a solo encounter.
As for "not knowing the game mechanics", it hardly applies when some guy rides in on a mount when I'm spending 8 hours trying to increase a spell by 2 points by casting it on the same mob over and over, and kills me in 3 hits and I have no way to fight back besides an ineffectual 2hander. I hardly see how that translates into me being a bad player. If you have some tips that don't involve traveling around with 2 vets to heal me and powerlevel me as to how to fight back, I'd love to hear them.
But thanks for the insulting post confirming the internet message board maxium of, "When you can't respond rationally, resort to mischaracterization and e-peen showboating."
btw, I never said raiding in WoW was fun, but it is sure a hell of a lot more fun than shooting spells at the hivequeen (which many people DO write scripts for).
So you just showed again how your particular play style is the "grind" and not the game.
For the record, I leveled most of my skills the old fashoin way mostly solo. I have never, ever used the hivekin queen to raise magic and pushed my earth magic & fire magic to 100, and all othe elemntal schools to 50 on trolls, kobolds, and undead dwarves. Any mob which drops gold / regs and moves slow is perfectly fine for raising magic.
If you are bored with one mob, try something else. You complain about the "grind" but you clearly make the game a grind.
Also, if you are out farming and get jumped 90% of the time you will lose, regardless of your skill level. Unless your attacker is an idiot. Still despite this there are many options:
see hiim early and run away
find high ground and kill his mount
If you raised your 1H before your 2H I feel for you. You made a huge mistake (especially witht he mount farming nerf). A rule of thumb you should always follow is pick a path which ahs the most utility in the most situations. 1H is not, and has not been viable unless you are mounted. You chose the path, now you reap the consequences. I wish this were different but it isn't.
The most effective way to farm cash is using 2H weapon which everyone needs for PvP unless you are a VERY high-end mage. if you have a good 2H skill you can farm most mobs in the game. I can farm mobs using 2H weapon using no mounts, little to no mandrake and far less downtime than mount farming. I can still pull in the same amount of gold as a mount farmer at the right spawns. Again, knowing the game mechanics and doing a little exploring you would have found this out.
Plain and simple, with friends you can raise skills ery rapidly just like many games. Especially when you know what to do. If you play causally 1-2 months to skill-up is pretty damned reasonable, unless you have no idea what you are doing. Logic evades some people.
Summary
From your own admission you chose to level the most inneficient 1 deminsional melee skill and got caught when they nerfed a borderline un-intended mechanic (mount farming).
You played one dimensioanlly, chasing the latest exploit instead of playing the game (mount farming, hivekin queen).
You burned yourself out doing 1 thing when there are many other ways and thigns you can do to level the same skill (which are nearly as fast with less risk)
You ignore advice on what skills to focus on and how to speed up the leveling process. Specifcally you apparently refuse to play with friends.
Based on how you play the game, what do you expect?
If after 4 months you aren't PvP ready you are doing something wrong
I agree. He should've AFK swam, macro'd, and paid Aventurine to hit rocks all day while not paying attention, according to you. Clearly, not playing the game you choose to play should be the premier way to make progress.
Seriously, who made you the authority on all things Darkfall?
The price on iron and wood is actually high and its not a bad hint to gather those ressources as a newbie knowing you can doing mostly in relative safety. Getting some welcomed income while getting a steady raise on stats is a good hint for starters really.
Just don't do JUST that, hope into anything else too (exploring, taking on mobs, visit dungeons, raid hamlets) and don't worry about dying. Remember its a sandbox and you responsible for the way you play.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Comments
The layering or stratification of PVP player levels, is just another side effect of the flaws that are inherent on the individual player level of the game. There is no doubt that a portion of the advanced players only want to keep the status quo because they are at the top of the pile. Just as a certain portion of the less advantaged want a easier time because they have no real desire to work to advance. The sad part is that DF does not promote competitive pvp, it promotes stratified layers, where the strong group with the strong and prey on the weak. Sure,its fun to beat down someone from time tot ime just for kicks. However most PVP players really want the enviroment to improve and compete against quality opponents. Otherwise we would all be playing the chase the "purples" games that exist on the pve MMO landscape.
Unfortuntely players are right in that without the mindless grind that exists on the charecter development aspect of the game, the game would die. Thats because the game has nothing to substitute for it, even after a year. AV additionally, really has no concept of how to create FPS style pvp enviroments or supporting aspects to reinforce PVP at all levels, ad-hoc,raids & sieges.
Frankly, i wanted to see more strategic and tactical elements ala eve or other games incorporated into DF. Without an economic system the game lacks in alot of ways. People complain about lack of pvp, but the developers do not seem to understand how to create gameplay elements to generate ad-hoc pvp hotspots. Look at the villages implimmentation for a perfect example of how not do to it.
Darkfall already have all the content a pvper need, and the game would do fine if AV focused on those players. Sadly they try to make a game for bouth groups, and that`s where they fail. Darkfall becomes a deformed game and bouth groups are unhappy. AV have to decide who this game is for. If they want this game to be a pvp game with massive battles, they need to reduce the grind. If they want this game to be a pve game they have to make safe zones and remove the full-loot. You simply can`t have a full-loot game and huge level cap.
I know Darkfall have enough pvp content to make the game last for years, but I don`t think we have enough pve content to satify the pve players for more than a few months. When the novelity of the advanced AI wears off, the pve players are out. The pvp players leave because of the grind.
You can see this in the game today. We have a small group of pvp vets, some people who like the game only because it have a huge grind and some newbie pvpers like Holdenhamlets. Sure we get a visit from the occasional "OMG this is the best game I ever tried, the pve is awsome", but they usually leave after a month.
I hope AV will focus on the pvp group of players, simply because we don`t have any other game. We think DF have enought content and we just want more pvpers. We know the grind is keeping the pvp players away from DF and that`s why we want it reduced.
"In most other games, you can reach soemthing approaching max level after a month."
Definition of max level aside, what flipping game can you approach MAX level in just one (1) month????
ss Darkfall does have all the content a PvP'r needs, and some could say the same about Global Agenda, and that is where Darkfall content appeal came to a screeching halt for me. The game-play is shallow; as shallow as playing the same Battlefield content over and over.
I'm looking at Xsyon and hope that it has less of a singular pvp-rule content mindset, and expands the horizon of community game-play and interdependence beyond the isolated scope of siege warfare and with a softcap that makes the playing-field more palletable.
Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.
Well said bud, wish more folks had the same mindset you do. I'm going on 4months in and still having a blast everytime I log in. I don't do much pvp yet but I know its coming once I'm trained and ready. Darkfall is probly the most fun I've had playing an MMO since trying EQ1 for the first time. Hopefully AV gives us some good updates this year to show the folks whining and complaining that DFO is far from dead :-) Meanwhile I'll continue to become stronger to prepare for my big move to a successfull clan.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
LOTRO, WoW before the latest expansion, STO (lol, one week for STO), Warhammer you can get pretty high if not max in a month, probably some others I can't think of.
The sad part is that DF does not promote competitive pvp, it promotes stratified layers, where the strong group with the strong and prey on the weak.
^ This is really true. A very good example of this is that every skill is basically useless until you reach "a goal", and then suddenly it becomes worthwhile. After grinding witchcraft for 3 weeks, and having it at 45, it is basically exactly as useful as it was when I started. There is no feeling of improvement or getting stronger as you level, until you hit 75, then suddenly it's useful. After 3 weeks of working on a skill, it's no more useful to me in practice than not having the skill to begin with.
Same for weapon mastery, archery and basically every magic school which each has their own seperate goals. This seperates eveyone into two groups- those that have achieved a certain amount of these goals and those that have not. There is no in-between and if you haven't achieved the bare minimum goals, you are roughly as competative as a day 1 player, in practice.
I really love the idea of getting better in certain skills by using them, but the way Darkfall has it set up is: "you become more powerful after you have used a skill 10,000 times and not before". That's not even mentioning the fact that the best way to make meaninful progress is to grind on one mob like the hivequeen, afk swimming or afk macroing- none of which could really be considered "playing the game" by anyone reasonable.
The reason why the leveling system is so popular in MMORPGs is because after a day or two of playing, you "level up" and you can see definite improvement in how strong you are. The carrot on the stick is reachable fairly easily, and then you get a new carrot. In Darkfall, it basically takes 2-3 weeks to "level up" in one single skill, and even then one skill is only one part of maybe 10 basic skills you need to be competative. Until you get all 10 of those skills "leveled up", you will be rofl-stomped by any vet pretty much as easily as a day 1 gets roflstomped, and even then you will be at a severe disadvantage against someone that has leveled 20 skills to their "goal".
Darkfall is sorely lacking in the gratification of becoming visibly stronger, which is the hallmark of all MMORPGs. In Darkfall, you only get half a carrot every 2 weeks, and you don't get the full carrot, which is meaningful and observable strength in the point of the game (the point of Darkfall is pvp) until 3 months in, at the very earilest.
In most MMORPGs, every couple days you can say, "Ding!" and receive "grats" from your clanmates. In Darkfall you're not likely to say, "woot 2.3 increase in one skill after investing 16 hours into it by trying not to kill the exact same mob to maximise gains, neglecting improvement in every other skill or stat, participating in no storyline besides the ongoing story of me getting my ass kicked by everyone else, and it's exactly as useful as two days ago, not to mention the fact that I am in no measurable way stronger against other players! Maybe in 3 weeks the skill will actually be useful, but on its own it will not represent meaningful improvement against other players!"
And then you have smug vets like xipher coming in and saying, "There is no grind really in Darkfall." Lol...
Before I played Darkfall, I thought surely ffxi would be the biggest grind I would ever experience in an MMORPG. However, you level up every day or three in ffxi, meaning getting stronger in every area, you usually get a new spell, and often access to new special side quests (like the subjob quest, chocobo quest, artifact armor quests, Maat, the epic storyline quests or the like). That's not to mention that you progress by actually killing mobs and working together with other people, so the time spent is far less boring.
It's true ffxi is a pve only game, and I really do prefer meaningful pvp to pve, but as far as just the grind and how often you feel actually stronger and rewarded for your efforts, ffxi is a total piece of cake compared to Darkfall.
Actually no. Most games have a good 6 month grind with gear addded in.
DFO by contrast is faster if you focus on the right abilities and then understand that PvP isw more complex in this game than others. if you assume you are getting wiped because someone just "has higher stats" than you, then you really don't understand the game mechanics.
Also, skills rank up slowly and generally linearly. The damage increases as you skill-up. Just because you have a 'goal' of 75 WC does not mean that it is useless until then. The lower level spells are certainly useful IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.
It sounds to me like you got your ass kick then started reading the useless drivel on the forums. Instead of fighting good players and talking to them and learning you game tot he forums and started spouting more non-sense.
That pretty much describes almost every MMO i have every played since the 1990's
First of all, those are PVE games, so during your one month to max you're invovled in a story and often fighting in groups to beat bosses and other fun things. Then yes, there's usually a gear grind at the end, but it involves pvp and raids, and that's not to mention that you won't be three shot by anybody if you're max level in any mmorpg.
In Darkfall for 6 months you're using an auto-clicker to cast spells over and over on the hivequeen. No stories, no quests- which is fine for a pvp game IF YOU COULD PVP COMPETETATIVELY WITHIN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME, BY DOING A REASONABLE SET OF ACTIVITIES. I don't consider casting a spell over and over for 6 months using a macro while I watch TV to be "hardcore", or burning out my computer while I swim up against a rock to be hardcore. I consider it god-awful boring.
THE AMOUNT OF TIME REQUIRED IS ALMOST IRRELEVANT, IT'S WHAT YOU'RE FORCED TO DO DURING THAT TIME TO MEANINGFULLY PROGRESS THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
If I had fun grinding then I wouldn't mind if it took 2 years to become competative. The novelty of the combat wore off after 3 weeks though.
And no, I get my ass kicked because they have 200 more hp than me, have one-handed mastery and fight on a battlehorn, and they have high elemental magic. But yes, them having 3 times as much vit makes a difference. Do you disagree?
The point of witchcraft is to get witch's brew and unlock the next one (I think it's necromancy, can't remember because I don't play anymore). Before that, it's basically useless. If you're telling me that having needles at level 20 is going to significantly help you in a pvp encounter, you're full of it.
Weapon mastery makes a huge difference and you can't achieve that until 75. You can't get your elemental nukes until 50 in each school.
You're telling me that having 20 fire magic is significantly more helpful in a pvp fight than having 0 fire magic? No, what's signifantly helpful is having fireball and surging magic.
You totally just disregarded my point about how Darkfall doesn't significantly reward effort and instead decide to characterize me instead of responding rationally to my point. Typical smug vet attitude.
***
If what you say is true, then I should have a signficantly increased chance against a vet with 50 GS (not mastery), 50 archery, r10 weapons, 20 witchcraft, all transfer spells at level 10 or so, with 225 hp, compared to say a day 1 player. These things I just mentioned is what you can hope to achieve after 3 weeks. If there is incremental increase in strength, I should be able to notice an increase in competativeness. There is no noticable increase though in reality. You're just wrong and it sounds like your fanboism is getting in the way of your view of the reality of the game.
***
The reason posts like yours are upsetting and not helpful is because I believed them. I forked over 50 bucks on this thing thinking I would be stronger after a month, and during that month I followed all advice and grinded maybe 8 hours a day. I afk swam for like a week. I even worked a trial alt to gather resources so I could make my own armor and r20 weapons. I am not noticably stronger than I was on day 1 against a vet, so I feel you and others that post what you post have misled me, and then you go on to insult me on top of it and claim there's just something wrong with my perception, and really I am competative. It's BS and it doesn't help the game.
The more you smug lying vets post about the game the more pissed off I get about this game.
If you stick with one weapon for three weeks and played for 8 hours a day you should be higher in skill then 50 (non-mastery).
I just changed weapons and in about two weeks of 2-4 hours a days am over 50. I wasn't even focusing completely on that one weapon either.
I do believe that if you play that much and focus on ONE weapon and have someone that can supply you with R50 or so weapon and decent armor in a month or two you could take down "some" of the vets. A lot of who wins in this game is who gets the jump (first few hits and is prepared (geared/food/buffed/etc.)) or who has more people in MOST cases.
Yes, there are always going to be an elite group that you just aren't likely to ever likely to be able to compete with. Especially, considering afk macroning and how long the game has been out.
Yeah, I get my ass kicked in sometimes by someone running around naked with a high ranked weapon that has been playing A LOT longer then I have. But sometimes I get the jump on someone that would otherwise be able to take me down and they die instead.
I don't think there are THAT many people that have 200 more HP then you. I would say most of the people i encounter are around 330HP. I have only met a few over 400.
So, in reality if you get a mastery to around 50 and have a decent rank weapon that is on a few hit difference to the average player. Yeah, someone in infernal gear all buffed up with max everything is going to kill you pretty much no matter what.
The highlighted stuff is almost word for word what my definition of grind is..........
Dem hibbies! Dey be wrong!
I just will never understand why there are so many people resistant to the idea of reducing the grind in this game. If people were to reach a competitive level more quickly, they would be actively involved in PvP and the whole game world would benefit. There would still be PLENTY to work for since gear would be lost more frequently due to the increased PvP. People would still have to grind for materials and crafting skills and they would still have to spend massive amounts of time in game to get anywhere... but it would be far far less boring and infuriating than it currently is.
The veterans would still have a major advantage because they would have tons of money, better gear, territorial control, and superior knowledge of the game. They would still win against newer players as long as they played well. They don't need the ridiculous stat/skill advantages on top of that...
Don't resub, the grind just isn't worth it.
As soon as another open style game comes out (MO, Earthrise) DF will likely die.
The vets will continue to tout that there is no grind, that 50 weapon mastery conquers all grind (LOL), health doesn't matter and other BS that means nothing to a new player in the trial or first month who just wants to have some fun.
They continue to claim everything is fine, yet nobody plays the game and half the people who do are AFK swimming in the hope that maybe one day in 3 months they will get 5 shotted instead of 3 shotted.
Its just such a shame that a mmo that finally has some marginally decent combat mechanics has embraced such a crippling monotonous grind that vet players can hide behind.
And that's why I still post about Darkfall.
The game's just so damned fun, except for its grind. That, and I paid for the game just like any of these other pricks who think they own the game because they like it.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I am not a "vet" of this game and I am enjoying the game. I haven't played the game since release and I don't afk macro.
I have played about 4-6 days a week about 2-4 hours a night. After about four months of playing I am starting to be able to do a lot more.
There are still a lot of newer players that have been around as long as I have +or- that I do have fun pvp with. I am also able to compete with some of players that have been around longer. But there are certainly long time players that I can't compete with. Also, most battles tend to be non-competitive usually based on who surprised whom.
But that doesn't stop the game from being fun.
You guys complaining about the grind. I just don't understand. I have played just about every freaking game out there and every damn one is a grind.
Just because you have a quest doesn't mean it isn't a grind. This is a mob grinder. Other games are quest grinders. It is the same shit.
I don't feel this game significantly advances any faster or slower then any other game particularly is you stick with one play style. Yeah, if you want everything maxed it is VERY much a grind but you can compete without just one area maxed. Are you going to win all the time, hell no, but that is as it should be.
Personally, I would rather have a mob grinder that has the pvp free loot tossed in take make the game feel more threatening.
I think it is more of a preference I guess. But I will say this last update they did add some more quests that I was surprised to find. So, they may intend on adding more but I don't expect they will be anything more then go kill this or that mob or collect it from them.
I don't think this game is perfect either. There just really isn't that much out there at the moment and there certainly isn't much out there like this.
To respond in cooresponding colors to what's highlighted above:
Yes that's true, but you'd be neglecting archery, magic and any crafting goals you might have. I did get greatsword mastery after 3 weeks while still getting greater magic up and archery up and some crafting done, but I played a hell of a lot to get it, much more than what should be expected from a game. 8-14 hours a day to be honest.
Possbily, but only if they too only used melee, weren't on a mount, didn't use archery, didn't have or use any buffs, doesn't use any of his high level healing and transfer spells, and didn't use any elemental magic and you are good enough to get 5 extra hits on them to make up the HP difference... Not likely to happen. Theoretically yes but not in practice. Even as unlikely as it is (probably impossible unless the vet was afk or something or so high on cough syrup he totally forgets that he has access to mount fighting, archery, high level healing ability, powerful buffs, powerful debuffs and devestating offensive magic), the entire idea requires someone giving you very powerful weapons and armor. You can't even test the theory without significant help from someone else.
You seriously expect to walk into a fight with 2h mastery, a cooked fish and level 30 heal self against a vet and win? I don't care if somene hands you infernal armor and an r85 weapon it's not going to happen. Even if he uses just launch and archery, you won't get close enough to hit the guy.
If I afk swam every night, which is the only way I can gain hp while I am working on magic, it would still take me roughly 3-4 more months to get 330 hp unbuffed. If I want to gain it legitmately, I can't focus on magic because there is zero hp gains from using magic, and I have only so much time online to play (unless I never sleep and can spend 12 hours on magic and 12 hours just shooting things with arrows). Unfortunately magic is by far the most powerful ability overall in the game (although you seem to think 2 handed mastery is).
I can get someone to ~50 mastery in about 6-9 hours of play.
If you can't find PvP at your skill level you are not very creative. If I am with a group off new guiys do i go raid Blackshields city? no. I pick easier prey there are lots of easier guilds out there that are clearly in the skill range of our newer players.
If you are getting 3 shot everytime you PvP then you seriously need to learn the game mechanics. I know guys with 240 HP and no mastery who can regularly take down vets. Clearly you would end up being one of those people who have 400 HP and still can't win a fight.
let me be clear the differnece between new guys and vets is not one off stats/skills. It lies in the ability for playres to cross heal, focus fire, and not showing the enemy your back. I see 'skilled-up' vets do this all the time. They still get thier asses handed to them.
I findd it ironic how someone says that WoW raiding is "fun" then complains about DFO being repetetive. I have never been more bored in my life than the third time running an instance in WoW. Hint: when you can write a bot script to do it, it is repetetive. Likewise I find killing the dragon, farming a vareity of mats for enchants with the risk of PvP far more rewarding than all of the shiny "purplez" in WoW put together.
How exactly do you get someone from zero to 50 mastery in 6 hours? I guess it's theoretically possible but I wasn't fortunate enough to walk into the game with poweleveling guildies at my disposal, nor are most people.
Cross heal and focus fire what exactly? This theoretical newb with the gs mastery has no ranged abilities nor heals beyond heal self. Besides you're talking about group pvp and we're talking about a solo encounter.
As for "not knowing the game mechanics", it hardly applies when some guy rides in on a mount when I'm spending 8 hours trying to increase a spell by 2 points by casting it on the same mob over and over, and kills me in 3 hits and I have no way to fight back besides an ineffectual 2hander. I hardly see how that translates into me being a bad player. If you have some tips that don't involve traveling around with 2 vets to heal me and powerlevel me as to how to fight back, I'd love to hear them.
But thanks for the insulting post confirming the internet message board maxium of, "When you can't respond rationally, resort to mischaracterization and e-peen showboating."
btw, I never said raiding in WoW was fun, but it is sure a hell of a lot more fun than shooting spells at the hivequeen (which many people DO write scripts for).
Wow man, you (holden) remind me of me just after I quit. It's kinda creepy.
Best I can tell you is just to let it ride. It sucks, but at least you didn't buy the 6 month "deal" that I did. I'm still hanging in there hoping that in my last 2 months of sub I can get a little playtime in if they change anything worth checking out. Doubtful, but still.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Haha maybe you are tolling, but I`ll take the bate.
So you have grinded mobs for 4 months in a pvp mmo and you are still not ready to pvp?
This just show how how much Darkfall have failed as a game, and why the pvpers stay away. Darkfall isn`t for the pvpers or the pveers. The grinders have stolen Darkfall from us, and they are defending it like a baby. Just listen to yourself, you are having a blast doing nothing but grind. You are a grinder. You don`t even play the game.
You can hope you`ll one day see the pvp we older players had , but sadly you can`t be sure. Right now there is no real Darkfall with large battles and sieges. I stopped playing Darkfall a few weeks ago. Now I`m only online killing npcs, harvesting and macro my spells. And no, that`s not the Darkfall I knew, it`s just another grinder.
Stux, your correct in what you state. however most MMO's at least attempt to provide some entertainment factor in the repetitive action business that is refered to as grind, whether its story, or shiney loots, or sense of accomplishment because of the challange. Darkfall though, basically informs you that you have to preform these repetitive actions while not enjoying it for many of us, especially due to the circumstances in which they occur just to get to the aspects we do enjoy. personally, i felt no challange in the PVE aspect of the game, it was the same as mining or harvesting. It was not something i hated either, more something i tolerated for the sake of the pvp aspects of the game.
Holden, is typical of a player who wants to try something new, but gives up, because he realizes early on that the game is just not going to entertain him, and he has to slog through the really tedious crap up front to potentially be entertained at some future yet undetermined date. The only negative i can state about him, is that he probably spent so much time generating resources and on charecter development, that he really never gained much skill in the player skill aspects of pvp, and learning the game mechanics in and out, which does create an advantage.
If after 4 months you aren't PvP ready you are doing something wrong
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
I agree. He should've AFK swam, macro'd, and paid Aventurine to hit rocks all day while not paying attention, according to you. Clearly, not playing the game you choose to play should be the premier way to make progress.
Seriously, who made you the authority on all things Darkfall?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
So you just showed again how your particular play style is the "grind" and not the game.
For the record, I leveled most of my skills the old fashoin way mostly solo. I have never, ever used the hivekin queen to raise magic and pushed my earth magic & fire magic to 100, and all othe elemntal schools to 50 on trolls, kobolds, and undead dwarves. Any mob which drops gold / regs and moves slow is perfectly fine for raising magic.
If you are bored with one mob, try something else. You complain about the "grind" but you clearly make the game a grind.
Also, if you are out farming and get jumped 90% of the time you will lose, regardless of your skill level. Unless your attacker is an idiot. Still despite this there are many options:
see hiim early and run away
find high ground and kill his mount
If you raised your 1H before your 2H I feel for you. You made a huge mistake (especially witht he mount farming nerf). A rule of thumb you should always follow is pick a path which ahs the most utility in the most situations. 1H is not, and has not been viable unless you are mounted. You chose the path, now you reap the consequences. I wish this were different but it isn't.
The most effective way to farm cash is using 2H weapon which everyone needs for PvP unless you are a VERY high-end mage. if you have a good 2H skill you can farm most mobs in the game. I can farm mobs using 2H weapon using no mounts, little to no mandrake and far less downtime than mount farming. I can still pull in the same amount of gold as a mount farmer at the right spawns. Again, knowing the game mechanics and doing a little exploring you would have found this out.
Plain and simple, with friends you can raise skills ery rapidly just like many games. Especially when you know what to do. If you play causally 1-2 months to skill-up is pretty damned reasonable, unless you have no idea what you are doing. Logic evades some people.
Summary
From your own admission you chose to level the most inneficient 1 deminsional melee skill and got caught when they nerfed a borderline un-intended mechanic (mount farming).
You played one dimensioanlly, chasing the latest exploit instead of playing the game (mount farming, hivekin queen).
You burned yourself out doing 1 thing when there are many other ways and thigns you can do to level the same skill (which are nearly as fast with less risk)
You ignore advice on what skills to focus on and how to speed up the leveling process. Specifcally you apparently refuse to play with friends.
Based on how you play the game, what do you expect?
The price on iron and wood is actually high and its not a bad hint to gather those ressources as a newbie knowing you can doing mostly in relative safety. Getting some welcomed income while getting a steady raise on stats is a good hint for starters really.
Just don't do JUST that, hope into anything else too (exploring, taking on mobs, visit dungeons, raid hamlets) and don't worry about dying. Remember its a sandbox and you responsible for the way you play.
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$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
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