So they are trying to make it like in offline FF games. In FFX I remember that the biggest challenge apart from bosses was to get from one save point to the other. It does sound interesting and something I haven't seen yet in a mmorpg. So basically the fight doesn't end after you kill the next mob but when you reach the next aetheral node or finish the guildleve. It would require a lot of strategy.
Kiiind of. I didn't think of it that way, makes sense though.
The fights will become harder as you progress, yes. You have to make a strategy to not use too many resources/mp on the first fights, and if you get ambushed along the way, the difficulty ramps up considerably. I imagine the last fights will be quite tough, and I'm sure SE would be evil enough to put the hardest mobs right before the node .
If that's what they have in mind I'm totally sold. A mission or a travel betwen nodes should be something hard all the time with unexpected danger in the way. A strategy that starts from start to finish and not a strategy that involves only a mob. That's what I liked about ff games. I remember once almost reaching a save point, tired of continuous battles encountering a malboro and me going fffuuu. The pleasure when I managed to kill him is something that I never felt in a mmo.
If that's what they have in mind I'm totally sold. A mission or a travel betwen nodes should be something hard all the time with unexpected danger in the way. A strategy that starts from start to finish and not a strategy that involves only a mob. That's what I liked about ff games. I remember once almost reaching a save point, tired of continuous battles encountering a malboro and me going fffuuu. The pleasure when I managed to kill him is something that I never felt in a mmo.
It also gives you a sense of progression, beyond the "kill X rats" style of questing where the progression comes from the # of enemies you have killed.
Here the progression also comes from how far away you're from the next node, or the last one. And when it comes to rats you can always rest between the fights. Rat #10 is not any harder than rat #1. Here while fights may be easy at first, they become harder as you go. And "easy" is a subjective thing- even if the fight itself is not hard, you still have to look out to not spend all your resources on one fight. That's another kind of difficulty layer.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
i have to admit that i actually like no mp regen through resting. i think this adds to the excitement and prevents camping. also this stops people from being silly with thier mp. in ffxi i see people wasting mp all the time because they can simply rest and regen it, but if were on the move, itll be harder to do that. ill wait till open beta and see how it works out.
If there is no MP regen how about HP regen or STA regen, that should then also be absent to make it fair for those caster/hybrid classes who need th MP to keep there dps going, if MP is absent beside in the city areas so should HP and STA or else you get an in balance of classes where the warrior/rogue types can continue forever using their abilities whlie a player who likes caster class better has to visit cities to get som eMP regen,
For me it would put me off playing FF XIV. it doesnt sound right that a group would break up because the casters/hybrids are out of MP and have to med up in a city or in the other case everybody would play the class that can enhance the MP. coz that class would be mandatory in your group to have and the pure caster would be left out coz nobody wants to group with a caster class that is going melee to avoid the waste of MP.
If there is no MP regen how about HP regen or STA regen, that should then also be absent to make it fair for those caster/hybrid classes who need th MP to keep there dps going, if MP is absent beside in the city areas so should HP and STA or else you get an in balance of classes where the warrior/rogue types can continue forever using their abilities whlie a player who likes caster class better has to visit cities to get som eMP regen,
For me it would put me off playing FF XIV. it doesnt sound right that a group would break up because the casters/hybrids are out of MP and have to med up in a city or in the other case everybody would play the class that can enhance the MP. coz that class would be mandatory in your group to have and the pure caster would be left out coz nobody wants to group with a caster class that is going melee to avoid the waste of MP.
There is a normal damaging spell that doesn't cost MP to cast.
You don't get mp in a city, you get mp from Aetheral Nodes scattered throughout the land. You only have to get from one node to the next, not "use all mp then run 5 miles to a city and regain mp there then run back".
You're quite underestimating SE's ability to make it work.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I'm right there with ya. I think they are taking it in too far of a different direction then FFXI and its going to end up hurting them more then helping.
This reminds me exactly of EQ and EQ2. Everybody was hoping EQ2 would be a EQ remake with better graphics, new content, new spells, and overall just made better but with the same core concepts. Instead though, it was a totally different game sadly and a lot of people were very dissapointed. Me being one of them.
The same is going to happen with FFXI to FFXIV i'm afraid. I hope not, but it seems like its going in that direction. People dont want a totally new game. They want the things they loved and remember from FFXI but with new content, new spells, new features, and such, but with the same core gameplay.
Instead they are changing it into a whole new game just using the Final Fantasy IP. If its too different from FFXI its not going to do as good as it could have. This is what happens when companies get greedy instead of making a good game that has a solid following. Instead, they want to please everybody in order to get the most amount of money, and in the process are going to butcher the game into some barely recognizable in terms of gameplay.
If there is no MP regen how about HP regen or STA regen, that should then also be absent to make it fair for those caster/hybrid classes who need th MP to keep there dps going, if MP is absent beside in the city areas so should HP and STA or else you get an in balance of classes where the warrior/rogue types can continue forever using their abilities whlie a player who likes caster class better has to visit cities to get som eMP regen,
For me it would put me off playing FF XIV. it doesnt sound right that a group would break up because the casters/hybrids are out of MP and have to med up in a city or in the other case everybody would play the class that can enhance the MP. coz that class would be mandatory in your group to have and the pure caster would be left out coz nobody wants to group with a caster class that is going melee to avoid the waste of MP.
There is a normal damaging spell that doesn't cost MP to cast.
You don't get mp in a city, you get mp from Aetheral Nodes scattered throughout the land. You only have to get from one node to the next, not "use all mp then run 5 miles to a city and regain mp there then run back".
You're quite underestimating SE's ability to make it work.
The idea of having to go from one Aether Node to the next in my opinion seems like it will force a very linear gameplay. Basically they will have set paths that you will be required to follow in order to get MP back.
Welcome to the Theme Park. Please make sure you stop at each node, and dont stray from the road.
I'm right there with ya. I think they are taking it in too far of a different direction then FFXI and its going to end up hurting them more then helping.
This reminds me exactly of EQ and EQ2. Everybody was hoping EQ2 would be a EQ remake with better graphics, new content, new spells, and overall just made better but with the same core concepts. Instead though, it was a totally different game sadly and a lot of people were very dissapointed. Me being one of them.
The same is going to happen with FFXI to FFXIV i'm afraid. I hope not, but it seems like its going in that direction. People dont want a totally new game. They want the things they loved and remember from FFXI but with new content, new spells, new features, and such, but with the same core gameplay.
Instead they are changing it into a whole new game just using the Final Fantasy IP. If its too different from FFXI its not going to do as good as it could have. This is what happens when companies get greedy instead of making a good game that has a solid following. Instead, they want to please everybody in order to get the most amount of money, and in the process are going to butcher the game into some barely recognizable in terms of gameplay.
I think that defeats the purpose of making a new game. If that's how it's suppose to be, then why even bother with another game? It should be just the same game and they put everything they have into adding on and updating and such.
It's suppose to be different from FFXI, that's what they said. What's the point in them bothering with XI if they're just basically making XIV the exact same game? Sounds kinda' pointless to me. I want my XI and I want XIV to be different so it's worth subbing to both, which is what I'm going to do.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best. FFXI Character: Satimasu FFXI Server: Valefor FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
If there is no MP regen how about HP regen or STA regen, that should then also be absent to make it fair for those caster/hybrid classes who need th MP to keep there dps going, if MP is absent beside in the city areas so should HP and STA or else you get an in balance of classes where the warrior/rogue types can continue forever using their abilities whlie a player who likes caster class better has to visit cities to get som eMP regen,
Jumping to conclusions there. All classes will use MP so there won't be any imbalance between classes.
There will be attacks that don't require anything.
There will be attacks that require MP.
And there will be attacks that use TP, which you can generate many ways including using the attacks that don't cost anything.
I'd say its a safe bet that all the classes will work this way pretty evenly. Also, even if you run out of MP you can use your free attacks to build TP and then use TP abilities. Again, this goes for all the classes.
And if the mages do use more MP then I think they will have ways to also recover it easier too. So I am confident it will be a fair system.
I'm right there with ya. I think they are taking it in too far of a different direction then FFXI and its going to end up hurting them more then helping.
This reminds me exactly of EQ and EQ2. Everybody was hoping EQ2 would be a EQ remake with better graphics, new content, new spells, and overall just made better but with the same core concepts. Instead though, it was a totally different game sadly and a lot of people were very dissapointed. Me being one of them.
The same is going to happen with FFXI to FFXIV i'm afraid. I hope not, but it seems like its going in that direction. People dont want a totally new game. They want the things they loved and remember from FFXI but with new content, new spells, new features, and such, but with the same core gameplay.
Instead they are changing it into a whole new game just using the Final Fantasy IP. If its too different from FFXI its not going to do as good as it could have. This is what happens when companies get greedy instead of making a good game that has a solid following. Instead, they want to please everybody in order to get the most amount of money, and in the process are going to butcher the game into some barely recognizable in terms of gameplay.
And your answer is to make it the exact same game as 10 year old Everquest and numerous other games that all have camping. If you just want to set up camp somewhere, why don't you just keep playing FFXI or any of the many other camping games?
Heaven forbid a company actually tries to do something somewhat new.
You seem like you really liked FFXI... well, if S-E listened to people like you FFXI would have never been made because "OMG! It is so different from past FF games!!!11"
I'm not saying "change" is always good. But to just assume something is bad just because it is different is pretty narrow minded.
The idea of having to go from one Aether Node to the next in my opinion seems like it will force a very linear gameplay. Basically they will have set paths that you will be required to follow in order to get MP back.
Welcome to the Theme Park. Please make sure you stop at each node, and dont stray from the road.
Or.... maybe it will really challenge (and reward?) people who go off the beaten path to explore away from the safety of getting to the next Aetheryte. Man, you really gotta start thinking outside the box.
MP regen probably won't be my biggest concern as S&B, unless they make many of a tanks abilities mana dependant. I'm more concerned with the max of 15 in a group and how that might work without trivializing content.
If that's what they have in mind I'm totally sold. A mission or a travel betwen nodes should be something hard all the time with unexpected danger in the way. A strategy that starts from start to finish and not a strategy that involves only a mob. That's what I liked about ff games. I remember once almost reaching a save point, tired of continuous battles encountering a malboro and me going fffuuu. The pleasure when I managed to kill him is something that I never felt in a mmo.
It also gives you a sense of progression, beyond the "kill X rats" style of questing where the progression comes from the # of enemies you have killed.
Here the progression also comes from how far away you're from the next node, or the last one. And when it comes to rats you can always rest between the fights. Rat #10 is not any harder than rat #1. Here while fights may be easy at first, they become harder as you go. And "easy" is a subjective thing- even if the fight itself is not hard, you still have to look out to not spend all your resources on one fight. That's another kind of difficulty layer.
This, more or less, is why I think it's a good system.
FFXI had this a little bit too. The EXP Chain system made it so that if you were a really spectacular group pushing your abilities to the limit, there was a big strategic difference between the first fight after a full rest and the last kill of your chain. Even though it's the same mob with the same level and same abilities, your goal in fighting it is almost completely different (kill efficiently vs. kill quickly). Any ol' party could sit there and kill every mob the same way and just stop for rest whenever the mages happened to run low, but the game actually threw you a little more of a reward if you went out of your way to plan the pace of your fights and get the longest EXP chain possible. This series of mini-goals made it much much easier to endure a long session because it wasn't as monotonous as repeating exactly the same fight over and over for hours.
It looks like FFXIV will put the pressure on even more, as you don't have the convenience of taking the lazy route and resting for mana as often as you want. If you don't save your mp for the fights where it will do the most good, you won't be able to make it to the next node. I expect that it will feel a lot like the challenge of making it from save point to save point and using a tent in a single-player RPG.
Chances are this game will be pretty good, and im sure alot different than FFXl , good for some people bad for others. I personally really liked Xl ,played it for about a year and a half, but finally quit due to lack of time,and not getting anything done when i could play, ie waiting 3 hours to put together a party, just to have a player quit after 5 min of lving. i heard they fixed some of the time issues but could never get myself to try it again. i sure they will balance out the mp use between classes , or tweek the character specs once the game gets going like they use to do.My favorite part of the game which was the coop in groups sounds like it is still going to be there, which i thought was the core of the game anyway, so if your running though a jungle killing mobs towards your goal destination or sit in one place pulling mob after mob you will still have that same basic group experience. So i cant wait to get this game, dont know how much ill be able to put into it , but sounds like it will be much more friendly to those of us that cant spare several hours every night to play.
One side was going to be disappointed no matter what- either those that wanted XIV to be FFXI-2, or those that wanted XIV to be mostly a new experience.
SE can do few things to ease the situation (like use the same races and elements from XI) but either way one side is not going to like how it'll pan out.
HOWEVER... considering how MMORPG's are nowadays, what This genre needs is something like this- something new. Do we really want another Aion, another very very similar game to you-know-what? Is that what we really want?
I am full of clones and games that play very similarly to everything else. That might be just me, but I think this applies for quite many players as well, who hop from one game to another because no game can satisfy them.
That's why this is the right direction to take, although there are people who can't deal with change.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Also, keep in mind that there are 3 different forms of abilities:
No cost: apart from a probable cooldown-timer, usable at will.
TP-based: traditionally the TP-bar is raised by dealing/taking damage, thus creating a regenerative pool for certain spells/skills (it's already stated that spellcasting in FFXIV will have a much bigger influence on the TP than it did in FFXI).
MP-based: non-regenerative. Replenished by using tools/items/spells/skills/nodes/etc.
Based on this info, I wouldn't be surprised to see that the MP-based spells/skills turn out to be the most beneficial/harmful/useful of the lot, meant to be used with some consideration.
Maybe the higher tier spells/skills will even incorporate a combination of TP/MP cost to be able to cast/use them.
I think they're just trying to give TP a bigger role and a lot more potential than it had in FFXI. This is also noticeable in the way they're integrating TP in this game: a much larger pool (3000 vs 300), possible upgrades for TP-bar (has a + in the AP distribution window), different costs for different spells/skills (vs. power of spell/skill based on TP-charge), etc.
I think they're just trying to give TP a bigger role and a lot more potential than it had in FFXI. This is also noticeable in the way they're integrating TP in this game: a much larger pool (3000 vs 300), possible upgrades for TP-bar (has a + in the AP distribution window), different costs for different spells/skills (vs. power of spell/skill based on TP-charge), etc.
Not to mention that TP generates at a much faster pace this time. It only takes 4-5 hits to get the TP meter to full.
That's why you won't be doing normal attacks as much as before, but use skills much more actively as well.
By the way, melee classes have also abilities that cost MP, so it's not like only mages will need to conserve it.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Also, there are 5 ranks of guildleves, with only the first (and easiest) rank being for soloers. Ranks 2 through 5 are for bigger and bigger groups, ending at rank 5 with leves for 15 people. You'll be soloing only a small fraction of the time, if you don't actually want to solo and avoid grouping leves.
This game is still not a soloing game, although such elements have been implemented.
EDIT: here are the ranks
I hadn't read that information yet - or the ranks, etc - but if that's the case, then my concerns about FFXIV becoming yet *another* MMO where you can solo almost entirely have been greatly diminished... and thank goodness for that.
That the higher ranks of leves, above the first tier, require at least a few people is great - it's not unlike people going out and duoing or trio-ing FoV's now. That the harder ones require larger groups.... awesome.
I'm glad that, even while providing more for solo or smaller groups, SE has kept the grouping focus intact. I was getting that impression more and more recently when I heard of how group tactics will work... and that parties can be up to 15 people.
All I can say is.... -whew-
Not sure the "everything solo, all the time, or it sucks" types will like that very much but, well... they have their choice of MMOs catering to them; far more, in fact, than those who prefer and enjoy cooperating with others.
As to the OP... I wouldn't worry about the whole "camping in one spot" thing... I would not be surprised to find those Aetherial nodes that were mentioned becoming popular "camp spots" for those who, like yourself, prefer staying in one spot, having the puller go out, etc. I enjoy that style, too... it sorta makes fighting become a sort of "background activity" that you're engaging in while talking, etc. However... I also enjoy nomadic fighting, where you move from spot to spot. So, if nothing else, it's another option.
That said, I hope there's a "down-time" where you can't use a given node again for x-time after you've used it. I would prefer that, personally... because guaranteed people would abuse the hell out of it if all they had to do was run back every time HP or MP was low and refill... healers would be rendered almost redundant, and so would the MP refreshers.
In all, it appears SE is still thinking outside the box, thinking up new ways of presenting content to their players, rather than follow the same predictable and "safe" pattern so many others are following.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I guess I was just really hoping it to be a better looking version of FFXI, but like they said, they want to make this game more casual friendly with constant guildleves telling you exactly how to and where to progress.
They've added the solo guildleves and such as an option for people who want to solo from time to time, or for those with only a short time to play before they go to work or something. It is not a replacement for group content. FF is still a group-centric series and it appears SE is sticking to that theme. They're simply giving players what, frankly, many had asked for in FFXI... which was more to do when they couldn't get, or didn't want to get a full group together.
You won't *have* to do guildleves in order to progress. Think of them as Assault missions, only without needing to be battered and beaten by a cranky Mithra to do them.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So they are trying to make it like in offline FF games. In FFX I remember that the biggest challenge apart from bosses was to get from one save point to the other. It does sound interesting and something I haven't seen yet in a mmorpg. So basically the fight doesn't end after you kill the next mob but when you reach the next aetheral node or finish the guildleve. It would require a lot of strategy.
Kiiind of. I didn't think of it that way, makes sense though.
The fights will become harder as you progress, yes. You have to make a strategy to not use too many resources/mp on the first fights, and if you get ambushed along the way, the difficulty ramps up considerably. I imagine the last fights will be quite tough, and I'm sure SE would be evil enough to put the hardest mobs right before the node .
That sounds fantastic to me.
Keep the challenge please! Make people use their heads before and during battles, instead of just bum-rushing through everything.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
To the OP,i know it is easy to be skeptical,as there is a lot of flaws/holes in the design.Square is going to have to fill these holes with more ideas,it really is creating a big circle effect of creating ideas then patching them.
I think we have to jsut sit back and wait for more information ,and trust that Square has proven to be for the most part ,very smart.Every single mage in FFXi had some way to replenish MP ,including Bard songs,so i cannot believe they would totally abandon it from every class.Like one poster said they may even include food as well,to replenish and there is the ability to drain MP from MP mobs.
As far as your idea to group and set a camp,i am very sad to say,there seems to be enough information that points to this idea as long lost in FFXi.The reason is so much points to ease of xp and warping around via the GuildLeves.This is why they are all instancess as well,that part i don't like either.So 99% of the players will just be playing like WOW,quest>quest>quest.Furthermore if they do not put a limit on Leves per day,then players will likely solo most of the time repeating solo Leves,sort of like doing Dailies only with no limits.
So i share the same sentiment as the OP,i do not like the push to a totally linear ,quest game,that is the reason i do not like Wow.I know a lot of people like this idea,because it basically turns the game into a solo fest,however why Square shuns the true FF fan,is beyond me.
You know when people have debates/discussions in forums?Well now you can thank those that constantly cry for a solo game,because the HAPPY players,don't complain,so Square was probably bombarded by non FF fans with a poor direction for game play.I hope we have a solid base of true FF fans in the Beta test,that offer good feedback to Square,so far i have not got that impression from Alpha testers,they seem more interested in playing than offering feedback.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If that's what they have in mind I'm totally sold. A mission or a travel betwen nodes should be something hard all the time with unexpected danger in the way. A strategy that starts from start to finish and not a strategy that involves only a mob. That's what I liked about ff games. I remember once almost reaching a save point, tired of continuous battles encountering a malboro and me going fffuuu. The pleasure when I managed to kill him is something that I never felt in a mmo.
It also gives you a sense of progression, beyond the "kill X rats" style of questing where the progression comes from the # of enemies you have killed.
Here the progression also comes from how far away you're from the next node, or the last one. And when it comes to rats you can always rest between the fights. Rat #10 is not any harder than rat #1. Here while fights may be easy at first, they become harder as you go. And "easy" is a subjective thing- even if the fight itself is not hard, you still have to look out to not spend all your resources on one fight. That's another kind of difficulty layer.
For sure, it could rule out the coat-tailers who just coast along through the game, gaining skills without actually knowing how to use them. If MP maintenance is going to be given that much more importance, it's going to force those who choose to level magic skills to really *learn* the job.
Hopefully that'll mean players who, when you see them with a given class at a higher skill level, you know they've earned it by playing.. not by being power-leveled.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm right there with ya. I think they are taking it in too far of a different direction then FFXI and its going to end up hurting them more then helping.
This reminds me exactly of EQ and EQ2. Everybody was hoping EQ2 would be a EQ remake with better graphics, new content, new spells, and overall just made better but with the same core concepts. Instead though, it was a totally different game sadly and a lot of people were very dissapointed. Me being one of them.
The same is going to happen with FFXI to FFXIV i'm afraid. I hope not, but it seems like its going in that direction. People dont want a totally new game. They want the things they loved and remember from FFXI but with new content, new spells, new features, and such, but with the same core gameplay.
Instead they are changing it into a whole new game just using the Final Fantasy IP. If its too different from FFXI its not going to do as good as it could have. This is what happens when companies get greedy instead of making a good game that has a solid following. Instead, they want to please everybody in order to get the most amount of money, and in the process are going to butcher the game into some barely recognizable in terms of gameplay.
Here's a thought...
Why don't you actually wait until they've released the game to make that judgement? You might end up liking it more than FFXI for all you know.... assuming you go into it with an open-mind and dont nit-pick everything apart for "not being just like FFXI only with better graphics".
I, for one, am excited to see the changes, to see what new ideas SE can brew up and how they can put a new twist on more "conventional" MMO themes. I would be bummed if they simply gave FFXI a "new coat of paint", so to speak. And, personally, I know most of those I've talked to feel the same way.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
If that's what they have in mind I'm totally sold. A mission or a travel betwen nodes should be something hard all the time with unexpected danger in the way. A strategy that starts from start to finish and not a strategy that involves only a mob. That's what I liked about ff games. I remember once almost reaching a save point, tired of continuous battles encountering a malboro and me going fffuuu. The pleasure when I managed to kill him is something that I never felt in a mmo.
It also gives you a sense of progression, beyond the "kill X rats" style of questing where the progression comes from the # of enemies you have killed.
Here the progression also comes from how far away you're from the next node, or the last one. And when it comes to rats you can always rest between the fights. Rat #10 is not any harder than rat #1. Here while fights may be easy at first, they become harder as you go. And "easy" is a subjective thing- even if the fight itself is not hard, you still have to look out to not spend all your resources on one fight. That's another kind of difficulty layer.
i have to admit that i actually like no mp regen through resting. i think this adds to the excitement and prevents camping. also this stops people from being silly with thier mp. in ffxi i see people wasting mp all the time because they can simply rest and regen it, but if were on the move, itll be harder to do that. ill wait till open beta and see how it works out.
If there is no MP regen how about HP regen or STA regen, that should then also be absent to make it fair for those caster/hybrid classes who need th MP to keep there dps going, if MP is absent beside in the city areas so should HP and STA or else you get an in balance of classes where the warrior/rogue types can continue forever using their abilities whlie a player who likes caster class better has to visit cities to get som eMP regen,
For me it would put me off playing FF XIV. it doesnt sound right that a group would break up because the casters/hybrids are out of MP and have to med up in a city or in the other case everybody would play the class that can enhance the MP. coz that class would be mandatory in your group to have and the pure caster would be left out coz nobody wants to group with a caster class that is going melee to avoid the waste of MP.
just my 2cp
Hagedis
retired from EQ, EQ2, lotro, WOW, DAOC, EVE
There is a normal damaging spell that doesn't cost MP to cast.
You don't get mp in a city, you get mp from Aetheral Nodes scattered throughout the land. You only have to get from one node to the next, not "use all mp then run 5 miles to a city and regain mp there then run back".
You're quite underestimating SE's ability to make it work.
Sounds like they want people to actually think a little bit. I like this.
I'm right there with ya. I think they are taking it in too far of a different direction then FFXI and its going to end up hurting them more then helping.
This reminds me exactly of EQ and EQ2. Everybody was hoping EQ2 would be a EQ remake with better graphics, new content, new spells, and overall just made better but with the same core concepts. Instead though, it was a totally different game sadly and a lot of people were very dissapointed. Me being one of them.
The same is going to happen with FFXI to FFXIV i'm afraid. I hope not, but it seems like its going in that direction. People dont want a totally new game. They want the things they loved and remember from FFXI but with new content, new spells, new features, and such, but with the same core gameplay.
Instead they are changing it into a whole new game just using the Final Fantasy IP. If its too different from FFXI its not going to do as good as it could have. This is what happens when companies get greedy instead of making a good game that has a solid following. Instead, they want to please everybody in order to get the most amount of money, and in the process are going to butcher the game into some barely recognizable in terms of gameplay.
The idea of having to go from one Aether Node to the next in my opinion seems like it will force a very linear gameplay. Basically they will have set paths that you will be required to follow in order to get MP back.
Welcome to the Theme Park. Please make sure you stop at each node, and dont stray from the road.
I think that defeats the purpose of making a new game. If that's how it's suppose to be, then why even bother with another game? It should be just the same game and they put everything they have into adding on and updating and such.
It's suppose to be different from FFXI, that's what they said. What's the point in them bothering with XI if they're just basically making XIV the exact same game? Sounds kinda' pointless to me. I want my XI and I want XIV to be different so it's worth subbing to both, which is what I'm going to do.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
Jumping to conclusions there. All classes will use MP so there won't be any imbalance between classes.
There will be attacks that don't require anything.
There will be attacks that require MP.
And there will be attacks that use TP, which you can generate many ways including using the attacks that don't cost anything.
I'd say its a safe bet that all the classes will work this way pretty evenly. Also, even if you run out of MP you can use your free attacks to build TP and then use TP abilities. Again, this goes for all the classes.
And if the mages do use more MP then I think they will have ways to also recover it easier too. So I am confident it will be a fair system.
And your answer is to make it the exact same game as 10 year old Everquest and numerous other games that all have camping. If you just want to set up camp somewhere, why don't you just keep playing FFXI or any of the many other camping games?
Heaven forbid a company actually tries to do something somewhat new.
You seem like you really liked FFXI... well, if S-E listened to people like you FFXI would have never been made because "OMG! It is so different from past FF games!!!11"
I'm not saying "change" is always good. But to just assume something is bad just because it is different is pretty narrow minded.
Or.... maybe it will really challenge (and reward?) people who go off the beaten path to explore away from the safety of getting to the next Aetheryte. Man, you really gotta start thinking outside the box.
MP regen probably won't be my biggest concern as S&B, unless they make many of a tanks abilities mana dependant. I'm more concerned with the max of 15 in a group and how that might work without trivializing content.
This, more or less, is why I think it's a good system.
FFXI had this a little bit too. The EXP Chain system made it so that if you were a really spectacular group pushing your abilities to the limit, there was a big strategic difference between the first fight after a full rest and the last kill of your chain. Even though it's the same mob with the same level and same abilities, your goal in fighting it is almost completely different (kill efficiently vs. kill quickly). Any ol' party could sit there and kill every mob the same way and just stop for rest whenever the mages happened to run low, but the game actually threw you a little more of a reward if you went out of your way to plan the pace of your fights and get the longest EXP chain possible. This series of mini-goals made it much much easier to endure a long session because it wasn't as monotonous as repeating exactly the same fight over and over for hours.
It looks like FFXIV will put the pressure on even more, as you don't have the convenience of taking the lazy route and resting for mana as often as you want. If you don't save your mp for the fights where it will do the most good, you won't be able to make it to the next node. I expect that it will feel a lot like the challenge of making it from save point to save point and using a tent in a single-player RPG.
With food to give mp regen and apparently non mp skills this should not be a major issue but that is what beta is for.
Chances are this game will be pretty good, and im sure alot different than FFXl , good for some people bad for others. I personally really liked Xl ,played it for about a year and a half, but finally quit due to lack of time,and not getting anything done when i could play, ie waiting 3 hours to put together a party, just to have a player quit after 5 min of lving. i heard they fixed some of the time issues but could never get myself to try it again. i sure they will balance out the mp use between classes , or tweek the character specs once the game gets going like they use to do.My favorite part of the game which was the coop in groups sounds like it is still going to be there, which i thought was the core of the game anyway, so if your running though a jungle killing mobs towards your goal destination or sit in one place pulling mob after mob you will still have that same basic group experience. So i cant wait to get this game, dont know how much ill be able to put into it , but sounds like it will be much more friendly to those of us that cant spare several hours every night to play.
Honestly though...
One side was going to be disappointed no matter what- either those that wanted XIV to be FFXI-2, or those that wanted XIV to be mostly a new experience.
SE can do few things to ease the situation (like use the same races and elements from XI) but either way one side is not going to like how it'll pan out.
HOWEVER... considering how MMORPG's are nowadays, what This genre needs is something like this- something new. Do we really want another Aion, another very very similar game to you-know-what? Is that what we really want?
I am full of clones and games that play very similarly to everything else. That might be just me, but I think this applies for quite many players as well, who hop from one game to another because no game can satisfy them.
That's why this is the right direction to take, although there are people who can't deal with change.
Also, keep in mind that there are 3 different forms of abilities:
No cost: apart from a probable cooldown-timer, usable at will.
TP-based: traditionally the TP-bar is raised by dealing/taking damage, thus creating a regenerative pool for certain spells/skills (it's already stated that spellcasting in FFXIV will have a much bigger influence on the TP than it did in FFXI).
MP-based: non-regenerative. Replenished by using tools/items/spells/skills/nodes/etc.
Based on this info, I wouldn't be surprised to see that the MP-based spells/skills turn out to be the most beneficial/harmful/useful of the lot, meant to be used with some consideration.
Maybe the higher tier spells/skills will even incorporate a combination of TP/MP cost to be able to cast/use them.
I think they're just trying to give TP a bigger role and a lot more potential than it had in FFXI. This is also noticeable in the way they're integrating TP in this game: a much larger pool (3000 vs 300), possible upgrades for TP-bar (has a + in the AP distribution window), different costs for different spells/skills (vs. power of spell/skill based on TP-charge), etc.
Not to mention that TP generates at a much faster pace this time. It only takes 4-5 hits to get the TP meter to full.
That's why you won't be doing normal attacks as much as before, but use skills much more actively as well.
By the way, melee classes have also abilities that cost MP, so it's not like only mages will need to conserve it.
I hadn't read that information yet - or the ranks, etc - but if that's the case, then my concerns about FFXIV becoming yet *another* MMO where you can solo almost entirely have been greatly diminished... and thank goodness for that.
That the higher ranks of leves, above the first tier, require at least a few people is great - it's not unlike people going out and duoing or trio-ing FoV's now. That the harder ones require larger groups.... awesome.
I'm glad that, even while providing more for solo or smaller groups, SE has kept the grouping focus intact. I was getting that impression more and more recently when I heard of how group tactics will work... and that parties can be up to 15 people.
All I can say is.... -whew-
Not sure the "everything solo, all the time, or it sucks" types will like that very much but, well... they have their choice of MMOs catering to them; far more, in fact, than those who prefer and enjoy cooperating with others.
As to the OP... I wouldn't worry about the whole "camping in one spot" thing... I would not be surprised to find those Aetherial nodes that were mentioned becoming popular "camp spots" for those who, like yourself, prefer staying in one spot, having the puller go out, etc. I enjoy that style, too... it sorta makes fighting become a sort of "background activity" that you're engaging in while talking, etc. However... I also enjoy nomadic fighting, where you move from spot to spot. So, if nothing else, it's another option.
That said, I hope there's a "down-time" where you can't use a given node again for x-time after you've used it. I would prefer that, personally... because guaranteed people would abuse the hell out of it if all they had to do was run back every time HP or MP was low and refill... healers would be rendered almost redundant, and so would the MP refreshers.
In all, it appears SE is still thinking outside the box, thinking up new ways of presenting content to their players, rather than follow the same predictable and "safe" pattern so many others are following.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They've added the solo guildleves and such as an option for people who want to solo from time to time, or for those with only a short time to play before they go to work or something. It is not a replacement for group content. FF is still a group-centric series and it appears SE is sticking to that theme. They're simply giving players what, frankly, many had asked for in FFXI... which was more to do when they couldn't get, or didn't want to get a full group together.
You won't *have* to do guildleves in order to progress. Think of them as Assault missions, only without needing to be battered and beaten by a cranky Mithra to do them.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That sounds fantastic to me.
Keep the challenge please! Make people use their heads before and during battles, instead of just bum-rushing through everything.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
To the OP,i know it is easy to be skeptical,as there is a lot of flaws/holes in the design.Square is going to have to fill these holes with more ideas,it really is creating a big circle effect of creating ideas then patching them.
I think we have to jsut sit back and wait for more information ,and trust that Square has proven to be for the most part ,very smart.Every single mage in FFXi had some way to replenish MP ,including Bard songs,so i cannot believe they would totally abandon it from every class.Like one poster said they may even include food as well,to replenish and there is the ability to drain MP from MP mobs.
As far as your idea to group and set a camp,i am very sad to say,there seems to be enough information that points to this idea as long lost in FFXi.The reason is so much points to ease of xp and warping around via the GuildLeves.This is why they are all instancess as well,that part i don't like either.So 99% of the players will just be playing like WOW,quest>quest>quest.Furthermore if they do not put a limit on Leves per day,then players will likely solo most of the time repeating solo Leves,sort of like doing Dailies only with no limits.
So i share the same sentiment as the OP,i do not like the push to a totally linear ,quest game,that is the reason i do not like Wow.I know a lot of people like this idea,because it basically turns the game into a solo fest,however why Square shuns the true FF fan,is beyond me.
You know when people have debates/discussions in forums?Well now you can thank those that constantly cry for a solo game,because the HAPPY players,don't complain,so Square was probably bombarded by non FF fans with a poor direction for game play.I hope we have a solid base of true FF fans in the Beta test,that offer good feedback to Square,so far i have not got that impression from Alpha testers,they seem more interested in playing than offering feedback.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For sure, it could rule out the coat-tailers who just coast along through the game, gaining skills without actually knowing how to use them. If MP maintenance is going to be given that much more importance, it's going to force those who choose to level magic skills to really *learn* the job.
Hopefully that'll mean players who, when you see them with a given class at a higher skill level, you know they've earned it by playing.. not by being power-leveled.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Here's a thought...
Why don't you actually wait until they've released the game to make that judgement? You might end up liking it more than FFXI for all you know.... assuming you go into it with an open-mind and dont nit-pick everything apart for "not being just like FFXI only with better graphics".
I, for one, am excited to see the changes, to see what new ideas SE can brew up and how they can put a new twist on more "conventional" MMO themes. I would be bummed if they simply gave FFXI a "new coat of paint", so to speak. And, personally, I know most of those I've talked to feel the same way.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops