Airboy - Yes we should. I have a feeling we are not going to, though. The link between the wallets of EF posters and their egos wont allow things to stay civil for very long! This thread already looks like a classic EF thread, complete with Rogaine-esque testimonials and Billy Mays style pitch men.
I wonder how nicely the EF community fare with outside moderation.
I wonder how nicely the EF community fare with outside moderation.
They will probably fare better than you did with EF moderation. Do you ever tire of being right?
Yeah actually I do tire of being right. It gets rather boring.
For the record, the Magyar Republic account on EF was never banned or even offered a formal reprimand. I closed that account of my own free will after having the moderator weigh in and attempt to judge my personal finances, as if he had any clue what he was talking about.
The day the moderator started trolling was the day I dismissed any validity EF may have had to offer. And that includes claims that I was banned or otherwise disciplined by Entropia Forum. It never happened.
I wonder how nicely the EF community fare with outside moderation.
They will probably fare better than you did with EF moderation. Do you ever tire of being right?
Yeah actually I do tire of being right. It gets rather boring.
For the record, the Magyar Republic account on EF was never banned or even offered a formal reprimand. I closed that account of my own free will after having the moderator weigh in and attempt to judge my personal finances, as if he had any clue what he was talking about.
The day the moderator started trolling was the day I dismissed any validity EF may have had to offer. And that includes claims that I was banned or otherwise disciplined by Entropia Forum. It never happened.
I wonder how nicely the EF community fare with outside moderation.
They will probably fare better than you did with EF moderation. Do you ever tire of being right?
Yeah actually I do tire of being right. It gets rather boring.
For the record, the Magyar Republic account on EF was never banned or even offered a formal reprimand. I closed that account of my own free will after having the moderator weigh in and attempt to judge my personal finances, as if he had any clue what he was talking about.
The day the moderator started trolling was the day I dismissed any validity EF may have had to offer. And that includes claims that I was banned or otherwise disciplined by Entropia Forum. It never happened.
Do you ever tire of being misinformed?
Did I say you were banned?
You implied moderator action was taken against me. I set the record straight, covering all bases. That you lacked the conviction to say what you intended to say completely and clearly is not my problem. Your purpose was clear, and it is that purpose I address. Try something else. Your last tactic has failed.
I wonder how nicely the EF community fare with outside moderation.
They will probably fare better than you did with EF moderation. Do you ever tire of being right?
Yeah actually I do tire of being right. It gets rather boring.
For the record, the Magyar Republic account on EF was never banned or even offered a formal reprimand. I closed that account of my own free will after having the moderator weigh in and attempt to judge my personal finances, as if he had any clue what he was talking about.
The day the moderator started trolling was the day I dismissed any validity EF may have had to offer. And that includes claims that I was banned or otherwise disciplined by Entropia Forum. It never happened.
Do you ever tire of being misinformed?
Did I say you were banned?
You implied moderator action was taken against me. I set the record straight, covering all bases. That you lacked the conviction to say what you intended to say completely and clearly is not my problem. Your purpose was clear, and it is that purpose I address. Try something else. Your last tactic has failed.
No. I implied that you did not do well with EF moderation. Personally I had you on ignore as it wasn't difficult to realize you had little of substance to add to any debate you joined or even those you started.
Your attempts to justify your comparison of EU with a ponzi scheme have completely failed. Your last rebuttal made no sense whatsoever.
I would also appreciate if you refrained from ascribing motives to me. You are just some guy I neg repped and put on ignore(on EF) for talking BS.
Your attempts to justify your comparison of EU with a ponzi scheme have completely failed. Your last rebuttal made no sense whatsoever.
Oh boy this editor is flaking out again. I'll use color.
Are you going to bark all day little doggy, or are you going to bite? You say my points made no sense, and have failed, but offer no counterpoints. Im calling you on it. You didnt offer counterpoints because either 1) The argument went over your head or 2) You dont have any. It can be safely deduced therefore that this post was another attempt to talk trash. Youve got 2 choices: Post your counterpoints or admit that you are nothing but an mal informed trash talker here to try to undermine my credibility.
By the way, to say in one breath that you ignored a user while passing on parables as to what level of dialogue they engaged in is a bit of a contradiction. How can you have heard me if you had your ears plugged? How could you have seen my writing if you had your eyes closed?
There was some discussion about whether or not the game was a Ponzi Scheme. I play Entropia. I have a good time doing so. And I think it is.
Points have been made for, and against. So far I believe for has the stronger case. Lets continue discussion and hash this particular point out.
Ok.... how about this?
For those who play within their means and enjoy the time spent there, it is a pay-to-play game with a wealth of things to do, with an economy that can, with thought, work for you.
For those who squander their cash, they are helping the others by recklessly adding money to the economy, which fits part of a very broad description of a ponzi scheme. This is obviously going to divide people's experience and opinion. Best advice would be, if you are losing hundreds of dollars, stop. Why wouldn't you, unless you were supporting the apparent ponzi scheme by chucking money at the hope of big wins?
That's two types of EU player, the third are the few with the cash and business know-how to make a living, or a decent profit on a regular basis. Thinking you can be one of them when genetics say you can't is a trap many fall into.
Either way, investment needs management and sense. It's no slot machine, and as for poker comparisons; if I wanted to play cards I wouldn't spend £600 on a PC, I'd spend £2 on a deck of cards and get real bored real quick.
"Can You describe the events leading up to your escape?" "We ran out of beer"
Your attempts to justify your comparison of EU with a ponzi scheme have completely failed. Your last rebuttal made no sense whatsoever.
Oh boy this editor is flaking out again. I'll use color.
Are you going to bark all day little doggy, or are you going to bite? You say my points made no sense, and have failed, but offer no counterpoints. Im calling you on it. You didnt offer counterpoints because either 1) The argument went over your head or 2) You dont have any. It can be safely deduced therefore that this post was another attempt to talk trash. Youve got 2 choices: Post your counterpoints or admit that you are nothing but an mal informed trash talker here to try to undermine my credibility.
By the way, to say in one breath that you ignored a user while passing on parables as to what level of dialogue they engaged in is a bit of a contradiction. How can you have heard me if you had your ears plugged? How could you have seen my writing if you had your eyes closed?
You are calling me out? Give me something of substance to respond to then.
The majority of MMORPG players can not handle EU/Planet Calypso and games built off a similar model.
It isn't the player's fault, nor is it the game's fault... it is just how it is.
I found it very similar to Vegas... Not in terms of whether or not you will win... just in what typically happens to the average player.
The current attitudes/methods of MMO gamers are built/honed in the Cash-Shop/Subscription style MMOs... and this game is ready/willing to eat you alive if you are not careful. You can do well, and you can enjoy yourself just fine.
Honestly... I don't think there is anything at all wrong with this game, or the other EU planets... it is what it is, and most people who have issues with it just wish it was "their way."
All in all its a free to download (if you can get it to download like some have stated) and free to try MMO RCE. There are some things newbies can do that cost no money and actually can make a few PED (Project Entropia Dollar) its not easy and yes pretty boring but it lets you get familiar with the mechanics of the game without having to spend anything. So far you can collect sweat (boring but some people make it fun), find fruit, animal dung, stones, and there are some new missions that are free revolving collecting sweat and locating places. I guess there will be more missions sometime this month and I am not sure what the freebies are on Rocktropia.
In a nutshell you can spend as much or as little as you want although the more entertaining aspects do involve spending money unless you find ways of making it.
I won't sugar coat it, its not everyone's cup of tea.
Its not a game you will master in a few months time so if you can't deal with that then don't frustrate yourself and stick to the subscription based MMOs.
I was going to gone on about what EU has done for me over the years and I have had my "ups and downs" with it, but I figure my first post will probably be labeled as MA employee or Entropia Forum moderator or NEVERDIE acolyte. SO I will leave it as is for now.
The majority of MMORPG players can not handle EU/Planet Calypso and games built off a similar model.
It isn't the player's fault, nor is it the game's fault... it is just how it is.
I found it very similar to Vegas... Not in terms of whether or not you will win... just in what typically happens to the average player.
The current attitudes/methods of MMO gamers are built/honed in the Cash-Shop/Subscription style MMOs... and this game is ready/willing to eat you alive if you are not careful. You can do well, and you can enjoy yourself just fine.
Honestly... I don't think there is anything at all wrong with this game, or the other EU planets... it is what it is, and most people who have issues with it just wish it was "their way."
Exactly the sort of post that makes me think this Forum ain't so bad after all. Let's hope the crap-talking dies off and we can all just agree we like the games we play despite their obvious faults.
By the way, back ON TOPIC:
Rocktropia can best be described as the Las Vegas of Entropia Universe. Not for everyone but worth a look.
"Can You describe the events leading up to your escape?" "We ran out of beer"
Either way, investment needs management and sense. It's no slot machine, and as for poker comparisons; if I wanted to play cards I wouldn't spend £600 on a PC, I'd spend £2 on a deck of cards and get real bored real quick.
I made the poker comparison being someone mentioned that playing other MMO's was like playing poker without cash, thus a waste of time. They then came across Entropia which quenched their particular need of risk in a game.
I simply drew out that basically, poker from my particular stand point could be more profitible in a short term sense rather than being out countless hours of trial and error in a MMO enviroment to yield the profits that, I feel, would justify the time spent. That's just me though, everyone is different. When I feel like playing with money, I play poker which can be profitable and doesn't take 40 hours a week. When I feel like playing an online game to get away from things that revolve around real world money, I play MMORPG's. When I play poker, I can handle being a "bottom feeder", yet when I play an MMORPG, I don't want to be limited to what I can do by how much I fork out (Basically your status in EU is how much you've payed in). If I were in a situation where I could afford an actual attempt to be profitable to my standards in EU without a care, I would probably take a shot at it but that's simply not the case.
All in all, different games appeal to different people in different ways. EU is a very targeted market and I just happen to be right outside that. Which basically winds down to, I'd need to pay more in EU than I'd need to pay for other MMO games with a better or similar experience.
There was some discussion about whether or not the game was a Ponzi Scheme. I play Entropia. I have a good time doing so. And I think it is.
Points have been made for, and against. So far I believe for has the stronger case. Lets continue discussion and hash this particular point out.
Ok.... how about this?
For those who play within their means and enjoy the time spent there, it is a pay-to-play game with a wealth of things to do, with an economy that can, with thought, work for you.
For those who squander their cash, they are helping the others by recklessly adding money to the economy, which fits part of a very broad description of a ponzi scheme. This is obviously going to divide people's experience and opinion. Best advice would be, if you are losing hundreds of dollars, stop. Why wouldn't you, unless you were supporting the apparent ponzi scheme by chucking money at the hope of big wins?
That's two types of EU player, the third are the few with the cash and business know-how to make a living, or a decent profit on a regular basis. Thinking you can be one of them when genetics say you can't is a trap many fall into.
Either way, investment needs management and sense. It's no slot machine, and as for poker comparisons; if I wanted to play cards I wouldn't spend £600 on a PC, I'd spend £2 on a deck of cards and get real bored real quick.
I would agree with this 100%, and still stand by my assertation that EU is a Ponzi scheme. The only thing that separates a Ponzi scheme from a real set of investments is the non sustainability of the project. Folks could go further and cite the fraudulent nature of a Ponzi scheme, truth be told though Dickens recognized this business model in practice long before Ponzi gave it the name we now use in 1920. It is a legitimate, if underhanded way of doing practice. One which is likely legal in many countries, though not in the US.
As for xcentric --- I gave you plenty to go with. That you dont recognize 1) a definition of Ponzi Scheme and 2) a secondary post illustrating an example Ponzi scheme in action, and subsequent relation of that scheme to the Entropia business model simply shows my argumentative strategy has gone over your head. Its likely not the first time. Feel free to ignore what you dont understand. That likely wont be the first time either.
Either way, investment needs management and sense. It's no slot machine, and as for poker comparisons; if I wanted to play cards I wouldn't spend £600 on a PC, I'd spend £2 on a deck of cards and get real bored real quick.
I made the poker comparison being someone mentioned that playing other MMO's was like playing poker without cash, thus a waste of time. They then came across Entropia which quenched their particular need of risk in a game.
I simply drew out that basically, poker from my particular stand point could be more profitible in a short term sense rather than being out countless hours of trial and error in a MMO enviroment to yield the profits that, I feel, would justify the time spent. That's just me though, everyone is different. When I feel like playing with money, I play poker which can be profitable and doesn't take 40 hours a week. When I feel like playing an online game to get away from things that revolve around real world money, I play MMORPG's. When I play poker, I can handle being a "bottom feeder", yet when I play an MMORPG, I don't want to be limited to what I can do by how much I fork out (Basically your status in EU is how much you've payed in). If I were in a situation where I could afford an actual attempt to be profitable to my standards in EU without a care, I would probably take a shot at it but that's simply not the case.
All in all, different games appeal to different people in different ways. EU is a very targeted market and I just happen to be right outside that. Which basically winds down to, I'd need to pay more in EU than I'd need to pay for other MMO games with a better or similar experience.
I understand where you are coming from but you still had to learn how to play poker and read other players. I've spent many an hour playing poker with friends, at Casinos, and online. Sometime for free and fun online, sometimes small stakes with friends, and sometime high stakes at the Casino. Entropia Universe has those elements you can play free, small, or high stakes in essence(since it not gamblng but thats another topic for another day) but there are other levels to it like the open market, finding money generating opportunities, and what not. The money generating opportunities are not easy to spot and can change many times a person plays at high levels for free by offering services to other players and using those profits to cover their playing cost. This happens at all levels from beginner to veteran.
The most successful players I see in Entropia Universe are the ones that don't treat it like a traditional MMO. They understand that there are people willing to pay a % for a service and they do quite well at times if they watch the markets and their wallets. The game will eat as much money as you can throw at it but that is not the point IMHO. My fun is growing my PED card while having fun enjoying my society and participating in the contests the developers implement now and then.
This will date me but I used to play a game called Presidential Campaign on my Timex Sinclair 1000 and I think that is where I started being interested in games with economic aspects to them. I always like Privateer, Freelancer, and now the X2 and X3 series of sand box games so when I started Project Entropia it was just the next logical step in what I always liked but now it was tied into my real life more since it was real money not monopoly money.
Like I said I understand what you say about Poker its not difficult to learn in a way and results can be immediate and profitable if you know what you are doing. There is a learning curve to Entropia Universe which can be frustrating and time consuming and is not for everyone.
My best advice is those looking to try Planet Calypso or Rocktropia, is to take your time and see if its something you would like before depositing any cash. Don't get caught up in the PR hype nor what I or anyone else says about it since it will be your call to continue on or click uninstall. I think most people who play any MMO can make up their mind whether its right for them or not. You don't need me or anyone else telling you otherwise.
My best advice is those looking to try Planet Calypso or Rocktropia, is to take your time and see if its something you would like before depositing any cash. Don't get caught up in the PR hype nor what I or anyone else says about it since it will be your call to continue on or click uninstall. I think most people who play any MMO can make up their mind whether its right for them or not. You don't need me or anyone else telling you otherwise.
Good luck in either case.
This is what it all boils down to. I've played the game and it's just simply not for me all things considered. Who knows, maybe a few years from now if it's still running strong I may give it another go but for now poker is where I'll put my money being I've already been through the trial and error with it :P
For the record, the Magyar Republic account on EF was never banned or even offered a formal reprimand. I closed that account of my own free will after having the moderator weigh in and attempt to judge my personal finances, as if he had any clue what he was talking about.
The day the moderator started trolling was the day I dismissed any validity EF may have had to offer. And that includes claims that I was banned or otherwise disciplined by Entropia Forum. It never happened.
For the record, I (the mod you mentioned) don't troll threads. I did enter a heated debate w/ you because some of what you were saying/doing was, well, "interesting" based on things I see in the EU economy.
However, that's a moot point and doesn't need to be rehashed. Suffice it to say if you saw my posts as trolling I apologize.
I've always been quite active in the community, and being a mod does not restrict my ability to enter debates/discussions/etc.
Wow, we've pretty much covered every topic except RT. (And yes, I'm intentionally trying to skip the Ponzi scheme accusations and certain other topics raised here, in an effort to be less "combative".)
So back on-topic:
ROCKTropia was never meant to be a different game from what folks have known about Entropia already. It's built on the same platform and will have the same hunting/mining/crafting/etc. as Calypso.
What is and will be different (especially when the features are implemented) are:
Different locations to see
Different mobs to kill
Different materials/loot to be found mining and hunting
Different items to craft with the new materials
In short, RT will have a different feel from Calypso, while still being basically the same game. As will each of the other planets. Some will like the new "skins", some won't.
We are simply being given more choices. Don't like planet X, pack up and move to Planet Y.
However, that's a moot point and doesn't need to be rehashed. Suffice it to say if you saw my posts as trolling I apologize.
I've always been quite active in the community, and being a mod does not restrict my ability to enter debates/discussions/etc.
Agreed. As a moderator however your statements can either encourage or discourage flames and negativity. In my particular case they encouraged an already volatile thread. The thread ceased being about the actual experiment around the 4th page. It continued as flames for another 19 pages as users obsessed over the real monetary nature of EU completely disregarded the non monetary nature of my post. I couldnt have given a damn whether characters broke even or how well they did, however the rest of the community seemed to dwell on that particular subject as if some old testament canon was violated. Apology is however accepted, though I wouldnt count on me showing up in EF anytime. I want nothing to do with that community. The feeling Im sure is mutual.
So back on-topic:
ROCKTropia was never meant to be a different game from what folks have known about Entropia already. It's built on the same platform and will have the same hunting/mining/crafting/etc. as Calypso.
What is and will be different (especially when the features are implemented) are:
Different locations to see
Different mobs to kill
Different materials/loot to be found mining and hunting
Different items to craft with the new materials
In short, RT will have a different feel from Calypso, while still being basically the same game. As will each of the other planets. Some will like the new "skins", some won't.
We are simply being given more choices. Don't like planet X, pack up and move to Planet Y.
Happy hoffing everyone.
I hope RockTropia improves. Its a cool idea, but IMHO right now it just seems rather contrived. Im not even sure it needed to be a real planet at all. Fitting into the Calypso lore Rocktropia could have been one of those large space ships that slingshotted colonists across the globe. A spaceship that ended up in orbit around some remote gas giant where something went tragically wrong... The Calypso team could have found the ship, and turned on the Teleporter before discovering the problem.
But I dont write the fiction for EU.
I personally am hoping they iron out the major issues that cause problems with the EU experience after the addition of RockTropia. Im looking forward to Lost Island and Planet Cyrene.
I hope RockTropia improves. Its a cool idea, but IMHO right now it just seems rather contrived. Im not even sure it needed to be a real planet at all. Fitting into the Calypso lore Rocktropia could have been...
The problem is the planets can't be part of Calypso lore. They are a whole new economic model for MindArk on the Entropia Platform. (I'm sure you know this, Mag, but I'll recap for the MMORPG.com non-Eu base.)
These new planets, starting with ROCKtropia are part of an "alliance" between MindArk and other businesses. These "Planet Partners" are responsible for planetary design & management (the look & feel) and MA is responsible for maintaining the platform and loot distribution.
Each side, gets a (presumably equal) split of the income, created by equipment decay. And in exchange for that decay, players get loot. What they do with that loot is the players responsibility, not anyone else's, and what each person does is often the main difference between success and failure.
In the case of ROCKtropia, the Entropia player known as Neverdie (owner of Club Neverdie space station, back on Calypso) created, with his own money sources, a design company specifically for making new planets. (He has others being made)
In short, FPC (the "company" running Calypso now) has no say at all in what occurs on ROCKtropia.
I hope RockTropia improves. Its a cool idea, but IMHO right now it just seems rather contrived. Im not even sure it needed to be a real planet at all. Fitting into the Calypso lore Rocktropia could have been...
The problem is the planets can't be part of Calypso lore. They are a whole new economic model for MindArk on the Entropia Platform. (I'm sure you know this, Mag, but I'll recap for the MMORPG.com non-Eu base.)
These new planets, starting with ROCKtropia are part of an "alliance" between MindArk and other businesses. These "Planet Partners" are responsible for planetary design & management (the look & feel) and MA is responsible for maintaining the platform and loot distribution.
Each side, gets a (presumably equal) split of the income, created by equipment decay. And in exchange for that decay, players get loot. What they do with that loot is the players responsibility, not anyone else's, and what each person does is often the main difference between success and failure.
In the case of ROCKtropia, the Entropia player known as Neverdie (owner of Club Neverdie space station, back on Calypso) created, with his own money sources, a design company specifically for making new planets. (He has others being made)
In short, FPC (the "company" running Calypso now) has no say at all in what occurs on ROCKtropia.
Yes. The pity there is -- especially how its done right now -- the Calypso lore itself is weakened as a result of the additional worlds, and present/future community members looking for immersion may likely be discouraged by the presentation thus far! I understand the appeal of RockTropia, and quite a few of my character investments are based around that appeal and the type of individual I believe would gravitate towards it. If you are familiar with videos by Ronnie James Dio you may have an idea at what Im getting at.
In short, alot of my personal monetary stake depends on how well RockTropia is recieved (although Next Island may be another avenue for my avatars particular niche skills to gain value in). That being said, a proper reception by the public must be done with full, unambiguous disclosure as to what the EU platform is, and is not. MindArk and its partners thus far have not been very good at unambiguous communication! The community unfortunately has followed the lead of MA/FPC, and tends to present EU through rose colored goggles.
A separate world indeed RockTropia is. As a first release for a planet, though... ehh... it may be weakening the product line, not strengthening it.
Well i read the whole thread. my word. some people are idiots on both sides. And also some great points made by some of the more inteligent gamers, on both sides of course. I wont feed into the whole discussion. but i will attempt to just give you my veiw of ALWAYSFAIL's new planet FAILTROPIA....
Well One thing is. NEVERDIE is a great guy. but he seriously has taken some buisness concepts of the Entropia Universes to a whole new level of stupid. The Whole Party Theme Nightclub in a virtual world Failed In my openion. Now he Wants to Attempt to try it again This time with a planet.
But at least he might have a pretty good concept. that is if he sticks to it. One of the things i beleive him to be doing is:
Exclusivly Selling Land Areas (That can be taxed by the owners) To Popular Musicians. And i do not think it will be exclusive to just RockStars, but Musicans of the popular Genre's.
To have Popular Music Artists Play the Roles of Major investors into the game. (Some people With some money) Would do the game some good. At least on the Common player's side of things. From my personal Expereance When These Land investors Buy Land Areas, The Sales of these tends to help the Overall economy of the game mostly on the supply side of things.
Now Of course It is still an investment for them. that would need to be made. But They have one thing The most common unnamed Land invester has. The Musicians Have Fame. And That is Something that could encourage Certain players to hunt and mine on their lands. To mainly support Their Favorite musicians. Remember That in todays world Musicians Are not Selling As Many Records and CD's as they once have.
Something to mention Rocktropia Is not even close to ready yet in regards to attracting anyone. But i accept it as a Beta phase, To test a few things and Use the exsisting Players to do it.
Seriously NEVERDIE and i really just want to say Neverdie. becouse All Caps is pretty fricking dumb, Drop some of the Ego. Your mobs in game do not need to be named after you. Stupid stuff like this does not attract people if anything it repels them. And This is Entropia Universe. People Are already not willing to participate becouse they think it is stupid and a waste of time. Full of scammers and people built to take advantage of other people. The Truth of the game is someone is going to walk away with your money. Be it Mindark or another player. But the oppertunity that remains is the constant Reminder that That other player could be you.
Now i Do Give NEVERDIE some positive points:
I like the concept of artist owned land areas.
I am looking forward to the new items and oppertunitys on the economic side of things.
Having the Balls to reinvest such a huge amount back into the game.
Now As far as most of the side discussion, Anything Entropia Is not ment for the faint of brain, Impatent, stupid, Gambling addicted, Weak willed, Sheepmen. But i have nothing agenst them joining becouse i know for a fact that MA only gets a small cut of what they put into the game per PED cycle. And after each ped cycle some one like me will be there to take what ever they Farmed for. give them the proper Vendor price for the item and a little extra for it. and just sell it to another person seeking the next All time high. And hopefully in the process make a little extra for myself in the process.
As far as a ponzi type deal. Well i can see how you can see it like this. But there is way to many varibles involved in the whole situation. That turns what would be a ponzi into a real working economy. See not everyone goes out with the purpose of hunting mining or even crafting. But they act as the liquidity for those who do. To keep the people contenualy hunting mining and crafting. This act of contenuing to Cycle ped may give a global. but for the most part the decay MA takes will slowly take its toll. And not all of what MA takes is counted as decay. Becouse if you have better skills you can use better gear. and even if this better gear has more decay. it allows you to be more effective and the more effective you are the less you lose. On the flip side of that is if you are not effective you will lose a little more than what you put in. These gains and losses are traded to the people being most effecient. And Sometimes The Fees from the market and some of the other Money traps will Be added to these exchanges, Giving some participants That Hall of Fame feeling.
So for the most part the system that Mindark Designed Is not flawed. Well it is to one point. The players for the most part do not take the time to seek the best possible Trade partners. And the result is The Traders looking for maximum profits stick to player to player trading instead of market based trading. As well as take too much from the players in terms of Value added onto items Anything higher than the Vendor price, And resales for alot higher than the Market value the item is really worth becouse they completely bypassed the market. not paying the fees involved making the whole system unstable.
But Seriously This game is So Complex. It is really Hard. But if you know what is going on and can speculate, outmanuver the competion, or even be a more fair trader, and can see the value as a real investment. (And The Vendor Value Mindark Will pay to you when ever you want to cash out. and i am pretty sure they will always honor the Vendor value. But the decay is all theirs to do with what they want.) Then This game could be your cup of tea.
That is if your wanting to make money.... Now If you just have a E-Peen and have some cash to back it up... well this is another good choise for you.. cough cough NEVERDIE.
Oh and i am not a Mindark employee. But i am a player. And unliked on the Entropia Forums, becouse i just speculate and take speculation as fact most the time. So my warning is this,,, I could or could not be right. But your the one with a brain. You need to make the choise. Dont just Go off the words of others. But dont shrug off their openions. make your own.
.... and yes maybe it is 5% that actually stay not because they got lucky but because they actually try harder.
Or maybe not! Or maybe ducks will come one day to us from Mars and show us all the error of our ways. Or maybe Cheerios will reduce my cholesterol. Or maybe a giant hamster on a very large wheel will be the power source of the future!
Maybe, maybe, maybe.
Maybe a vigorous defense by a few players is not what this game needs. Maybe the game needs some actual PR work from people who arent complete idiots, game systems inplace within the world that are no cost/no profit that actually make the game feel like virtual reality, and malls that actually have to be staffed rather than passively vended from, so that folks walk into areas of town and feel alive.
Maybe then the virtual reality platform MA and NEVERDIE want to market will actually make some sense to a player who is logging on for the first time, and they'll be able to play EU as more than just an expensive WoW with some payback options.
There are alot of maybes in this world. As you can see, most of them are total crap. So lets stay away from the realm of conjecture and stick to what we actually know.
Thank you.
I love you man !
Keep posting I like your insight and your answers, its both funny and so true which makes your posts a pure joy to read!
Well i read the whole thread. my word. some people are idiots on both sides. And also some great points made by some of the more inteligent gamers, on both sides of course. I wont feed into the whole discussion. but i will attempt to just give you my veiw of ALWAYSFAIL's new planet FAILTROPIA....
Well One thing is. NEVERDIE is a great guy. but he seriously has taken some buisness concepts of the Entropia Universes to a whole new level of stupid. The Whole Party Theme Nightclub in a virtual world Failed In my openion. Now he Wants to Attempt to try it again This time with a planet.
But at least he might have a pretty good concept. that is if he sticks to it. One of the things i beleive him to be doing is:
Exclusivly Selling Land Areas (That can be taxed by the owners) To Popular Musicians. And i do not think it will be exclusive to just RockStars, but Musicans of the popular Genre's.
To have Popular Music Artists Play the Roles of Major investors into the game. (Some people With some money) Would do the game some good. At least on the Common player's side of things. From my personal Expereance When These Land investors Buy Land Areas, The Sales of these tends to help the Overall economy of the game mostly on the supply side of things.
Now Of course It is still an investment for them. that would need to be made. But They have one thing The most common unnamed Land invester has. The Musicians Have Fame. And That is Something that could encourage Certain players to hunt and mine on their lands. To mainly support Their Favorite musicians. Remember That in todays world Musicians Are not Selling As Many Records and CD's as they once have.
Something to mention Rocktropia Is not even close to ready yet in regards to attracting anyone. But i accept it as a Beta phase, To test a few things and Use the exsisting Players to do it.
Seriously NEVERDIE and i really just want to say Neverdie. becouse All Caps is pretty fricking dumb, Drop some of the Ego. Your mobs in game do not need to be named after you. Stupid stuff like this does not attract people if anything it repels them. And This is Entropia Universe. People Are already not willing to participate becouse they think it is stupid and a waste of time. Full of scammers and people built to take advantage of other people. The Truth of the game is someone is going to walk away with your money. Be it Mindark or another player. But the oppertunity that remains is the constant Reminder that That other player could be you.
Now i Do Give NEVERDIE some positive points:
I like the concept of artist owned land areas.
I am looking forward to the new items and oppertunitys on the economic side of things.
Having the Balls to reinvest such a huge amount back into the game.
Now As far as most of the side discussion, Anything Entropia Is not ment for the faint of brain, Impatent, stupid, Gambling addicted, Weak willed, Sheepmen. But i have nothing agenst them joining becouse i know for a fact that MA only gets a small cut of what they put into the game per PED cycle. And after each ped cycle some one like me will be there to take what ever they Farmed for. give them the proper Vendor price for the item and a little extra for it. and just sell it to another person seeking the next All time high. And hopefully in the process make a little extra for myself in the process.
As far as a ponzi type deal. Well i can see how you can see it like this. But there is way to many varibles involved in the whole situation. That turns what would be a ponzi into a real working economy. See not everyone goes out with the purpose of hunting mining or even crafting. But they act as the liquidity for those who do. To keep the people contenualy hunting mining and crafting. This act of contenuing to Cycle ped may give a global. but for the most part the decay MA takes will slowly take its toll. And not all of what MA takes is counted as decay. Becouse if you have better skills you can use better gear. and even if this better gear has more decay. it allows you to be more effective and the more effective you are the less you lose. On the flip side of that is if you are not effective you will lose a little more than what you put in. These gains and losses are traded to the people being most effecient. And Sometimes The Fees from the market and some of the other Money traps will Be added to these exchanges, Giving some participants That Hall of Fame feeling.
So for the most part the system that Mindark Designed Is not flawed. Well it is to one point. The players for the most part do not take the time to seek the best possible Trade partners. And the result is The Traders looking for maximum profits stick to player to player trading instead of market based trading. As well as take too much from the players in terms of Value added onto items Anything higher than the Vendor price, And resales for alot higher than the Market value the item is really worth becouse they completely bypassed the market. not paying the fees involved making the whole system unstable.
But Seriously This game is So Complex. It is really Hard. But if you know what is going on and can speculate, outmanuver the competion, or even be a more fair trader, and can see the value as a real investment. (And The Vendor Value Mindark Will pay to you when ever you want to cash out. and i am pretty sure they will always honor the Vendor value. But the decay is all theirs to do with what they want.) Then This game could be your cup of tea.
That is if your wanting to make money.... Now If you just have a E-Peen and have some cash to back it up... well this is another good choise for you.. cough cough NEVERDIE.
Oh and i am not a Mindark employee. But i am a player. And unliked on the Entropia Forums, becouse i just speculate and take speculation as fact most the time. So my warning is this,,, I could or could not be right. But your the one with a brain. You need to make the choise. Dont just Go off the words of others. But dont shrug off their openions. make your own.
What is your ingame name or name at the entropiaforums?
Comments
*sigh*
Airboy - Yes we should. I have a feeling we are not going to, though. The link between the wallets of EF posters and their egos wont allow things to stay civil for very long! This thread already looks like a classic EF thread, complete with Rogaine-esque testimonials and Billy Mays style pitch men.
I wonder how nicely the EF community fare with outside moderation.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
They will probably fare better than you did with EF moderation. Do you ever tire of being right?
Yeah actually I do tire of being right. It gets rather boring.
For the record, the Magyar Republic account on EF was never banned or even offered a formal reprimand. I closed that account of my own free will after having the moderator weigh in and attempt to judge my personal finances, as if he had any clue what he was talking about.
The day the moderator started trolling was the day I dismissed any validity EF may have had to offer. And that includes claims that I was banned or otherwise disciplined by Entropia Forum. It never happened.
Do you ever tire of being misinformed?
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Did I say you were banned?
You implied moderator action was taken against me. I set the record straight, covering all bases. That you lacked the conviction to say what you intended to say completely and clearly is not my problem. Your purpose was clear, and it is that purpose I address. Try something else. Your last tactic has failed.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
No. I implied that you did not do well with EF moderation. Personally I had you on ignore as it wasn't difficult to realize you had little of substance to add to any debate you joined or even those you started.
Your attempts to justify your comparison of EU with a ponzi scheme have completely failed. Your last rebuttal made no sense whatsoever.
I would also appreciate if you refrained from ascribing motives to me. You are just some guy I neg repped and put on ignore(on EF) for talking BS.
Thanks for putting the thread back on track.
There was some discussion about whether or not the game was a Ponzi Scheme. I play Entropia. I have a good time doing so. And I think it is.
Points have been made for, and against. So far I believe for has the stronger case. Lets continue discussion and hash this particular point out.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Ok.... how about this?
For those who play within their means and enjoy the time spent there, it is a pay-to-play game with a wealth of things to do, with an economy that can, with thought, work for you.
For those who squander their cash, they are helping the others by recklessly adding money to the economy, which fits part of a very broad description of a ponzi scheme. This is obviously going to divide people's experience and opinion. Best advice would be, if you are losing hundreds of dollars, stop. Why wouldn't you, unless you were supporting the apparent ponzi scheme by chucking money at the hope of big wins?
That's two types of EU player, the third are the few with the cash and business know-how to make a living, or a decent profit on a regular basis. Thinking you can be one of them when genetics say you can't is a trap many fall into.
Either way, investment needs management and sense. It's no slot machine, and as for poker comparisons; if I wanted to play cards I wouldn't spend £600 on a PC, I'd spend £2 on a deck of cards and get real bored real quick.
"Can You describe the events leading up to your escape?"
"We ran out of beer"
You are calling me out? Give me something of substance to respond to then.
The majority of MMORPG players can not handle EU/Planet Calypso and games built off a similar model.
It isn't the player's fault, nor is it the game's fault... it is just how it is.
I found it very similar to Vegas... Not in terms of whether or not you will win... just in what typically happens to the average player.
The current attitudes/methods of MMO gamers are built/honed in the Cash-Shop/Subscription style MMOs... and this game is ready/willing to eat you alive if you are not careful. You can do well, and you can enjoy yourself just fine.
Honestly... I don't think there is anything at all wrong with this game, or the other EU planets... it is what it is, and most people who have issues with it just wish it was "their way."
Hi everyone
I know beware the newbie muhahaha.
All in all its a free to download (if you can get it to download like some have stated) and free to try MMO RCE. There are some things newbies can do that cost no money and actually can make a few PED (Project Entropia Dollar) its not easy and yes pretty boring but it lets you get familiar with the mechanics of the game without having to spend anything. So far you can collect sweat (boring but some people make it fun), find fruit, animal dung, stones, and there are some new missions that are free revolving collecting sweat and locating places. I guess there will be more missions sometime this month and I am not sure what the freebies are on Rocktropia.
In a nutshell you can spend as much or as little as you want although the more entertaining aspects do involve spending money unless you find ways of making it.
I won't sugar coat it, its not everyone's cup of tea.
Its not a game you will master in a few months time so if you can't deal with that then don't frustrate yourself and stick to the subscription based MMOs.
I was going to gone on about what EU has done for me over the years and I have had my "ups and downs" with it, but I figure my first post will probably be labeled as MA employee or Entropia Forum moderator or NEVERDIE acolyte. SO I will leave it as is for now.
I find it fun and thats what matters to me.
Exactly the sort of post that makes me think this Forum ain't so bad after all. Let's hope the crap-talking dies off and we can all just agree we like the games we play despite their obvious faults.
By the way, back ON TOPIC:
Rocktropia can best be described as the Las Vegas of Entropia Universe. Not for everyone but worth a look.
"Can You describe the events leading up to your escape?"
"We ran out of beer"
I made the poker comparison being someone mentioned that playing other MMO's was like playing poker without cash, thus a waste of time. They then came across Entropia which quenched their particular need of risk in a game.
I simply drew out that basically, poker from my particular stand point could be more profitible in a short term sense rather than being out countless hours of trial and error in a MMO enviroment to yield the profits that, I feel, would justify the time spent. That's just me though, everyone is different. When I feel like playing with money, I play poker which can be profitable and doesn't take 40 hours a week. When I feel like playing an online game to get away from things that revolve around real world money, I play MMORPG's. When I play poker, I can handle being a "bottom feeder", yet when I play an MMORPG, I don't want to be limited to what I can do by how much I fork out (Basically your status in EU is how much you've payed in). If I were in a situation where I could afford an actual attempt to be profitable to my standards in EU without a care, I would probably take a shot at it but that's simply not the case.
All in all, different games appeal to different people in different ways. EU is a very targeted market and I just happen to be right outside that. Which basically winds down to, I'd need to pay more in EU than I'd need to pay for other MMO games with a better or similar experience.
I would agree with this 100%, and still stand by my assertation that EU is a Ponzi scheme. The only thing that separates a Ponzi scheme from a real set of investments is the non sustainability of the project. Folks could go further and cite the fraudulent nature of a Ponzi scheme, truth be told though Dickens recognized this business model in practice long before Ponzi gave it the name we now use in 1920. It is a legitimate, if underhanded way of doing practice. One which is likely legal in many countries, though not in the US.
As for xcentric --- I gave you plenty to go with. That you dont recognize 1) a definition of Ponzi Scheme and 2) a secondary post illustrating an example Ponzi scheme in action, and subsequent relation of that scheme to the Entropia business model simply shows my argumentative strategy has gone over your head. Its likely not the first time. Feel free to ignore what you dont understand. That likely wont be the first time either.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
lol, I'm rich! Entropia here I come!
Doubt I'd get far on .30 cents worth of PED :P
I understand where you are coming from but you still had to learn how to play poker and read other players. I've spent many an hour playing poker with friends, at Casinos, and online. Sometime for free and fun online, sometimes small stakes with friends, and sometime high stakes at the Casino. Entropia Universe has those elements you can play free, small, or high stakes in essence(since it not gamblng but thats another topic for another day) but there are other levels to it like the open market, finding money generating opportunities, and what not. The money generating opportunities are not easy to spot and can change many times a person plays at high levels for free by offering services to other players and using those profits to cover their playing cost. This happens at all levels from beginner to veteran.
The most successful players I see in Entropia Universe are the ones that don't treat it like a traditional MMO. They understand that there are people willing to pay a % for a service and they do quite well at times if they watch the markets and their wallets. The game will eat as much money as you can throw at it but that is not the point IMHO. My fun is growing my PED card while having fun enjoying my society and participating in the contests the developers implement now and then.
This will date me but I used to play a game called Presidential Campaign on my Timex Sinclair 1000
and I think that is where I started being interested in games with economic aspects to them. I always like Privateer, Freelancer, and now the X2 and X3 series of sand box games so when I started Project Entropia it was just the next logical step in what I always liked but now it was tied into my real life more since it was real money not monopoly money.
Like I said I understand what you say about Poker its not difficult to learn in a way and results can be immediate and profitable if you know what you are doing. There is a learning curve to Entropia Universe which can be frustrating and time consuming and is not for everyone.
My best advice is those looking to try Planet Calypso or Rocktropia, is to take your time and see if its something you would like before depositing any cash. Don't get caught up in the PR hype nor what I or anyone else says about it since it will be your call to continue on or click uninstall. I think most people who play any MMO can make up their mind whether its right for them or not. You don't need me or anyone else telling you otherwise.
Good luck in either case.
This is what it all boils down to. I've played the game and it's just simply not for me all things considered. Who knows, maybe a few years from now if it's still running strong I may give it another go but for now poker is where I'll put my money being I've already been through the trial and error with it :P
For the record, I (the mod you mentioned) don't troll threads. I did enter a heated debate w/ you because some of what you were saying/doing was, well, "interesting" based on things I see in the EU economy.
However, that's a moot point and doesn't need to be rehashed. Suffice it to say if you saw my posts as trolling I apologize.
I've always been quite active in the community, and being a mod does not restrict my ability to enter debates/discussions/etc.
Wow, we've pretty much covered every topic except RT. (And yes, I'm intentionally trying to skip the Ponzi scheme accusations and certain other topics raised here, in an effort to be less "combative".)
So back on-topic:
ROCKTropia was never meant to be a different game from what folks have known about Entropia already. It's built on the same platform and will have the same hunting/mining/crafting/etc. as Calypso.
What is and will be different (especially when the features are implemented) are:
Different locations to see
Different mobs to kill
Different materials/loot to be found mining and hunting
Different items to craft with the new materials
In short, RT will have a different feel from Calypso, while still being basically the same game. As will each of the other planets. Some will like the new "skins", some won't.
We are simply being given more choices. Don't like planet X, pack up and move to Planet Y.
Happy hoffing everyone.
Happy hoffing
I hope RockTropia improves. Its a cool idea, but IMHO right now it just seems rather contrived. Im not even sure it needed to be a real planet at all. Fitting into the Calypso lore Rocktropia could have been one of those large space ships that slingshotted colonists across the globe. A spaceship that ended up in orbit around some remote gas giant where something went tragically wrong... The Calypso team could have found the ship, and turned on the Teleporter before discovering the problem.
But I dont write the fiction for EU.
I personally am hoping they iron out the major issues that cause problems with the EU experience after the addition of RockTropia. Im looking forward to Lost Island and Planet Cyrene.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
The problem is the planets can't be part of Calypso lore. They are a whole new economic model for MindArk on the Entropia Platform. (I'm sure you know this, Mag, but I'll recap for the MMORPG.com non-Eu base.)
These new planets, starting with ROCKtropia are part of an "alliance" between MindArk and other businesses. These "Planet Partners" are responsible for planetary design & management (the look & feel) and MA is responsible for maintaining the platform and loot distribution.
Each side, gets a (presumably equal) split of the income, created by equipment decay. And in exchange for that decay, players get loot. What they do with that loot is the players responsibility, not anyone else's, and what each person does is often the main difference between success and failure.
In the case of ROCKtropia, the Entropia player known as Neverdie (owner of Club Neverdie space station, back on Calypso) created, with his own money sources, a design company specifically for making new planets. (He has others being made)
In short, FPC (the "company" running Calypso now) has no say at all in what occurs on ROCKtropia.
Happy hoffing
Yes. The pity there is -- especially how its done right now -- the Calypso lore itself is weakened as a result of the additional worlds, and present/future community members looking for immersion may likely be discouraged by the presentation thus far! I understand the appeal of RockTropia, and quite a few of my character investments are based around that appeal and the type of individual I believe would gravitate towards it. If you are familiar with videos by Ronnie James Dio you may have an idea at what Im getting at.
In short, alot of my personal monetary stake depends on how well RockTropia is recieved (although Next Island may be another avenue for my avatars particular niche skills to gain value in). That being said, a proper reception by the public must be done with full, unambiguous disclosure as to what the EU platform is, and is not. MindArk and its partners thus far have not been very good at unambiguous communication! The community unfortunately has followed the lead of MA/FPC, and tends to present EU through rose colored goggles.
A separate world indeed RockTropia is. As a first release for a planet, though... ehh... it may be weakening the product line, not strengthening it.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
Well i read the whole thread. my word. some people are idiots on both sides. And also some great points made by some of the more inteligent gamers, on both sides of course. I wont feed into the whole discussion. but i will attempt to just give you my veiw of ALWAYSFAIL's new planet FAILTROPIA....
Well One thing is. NEVERDIE is a great guy. but he seriously has taken some buisness concepts of the Entropia Universes to a whole new level of stupid. The Whole Party Theme Nightclub in a virtual world Failed In my openion. Now he Wants to Attempt to try it again This time with a planet.
But at least he might have a pretty good concept. that is if he sticks to it. One of the things i beleive him to be doing is:
Exclusivly Selling Land Areas (That can be taxed by the owners) To Popular Musicians. And i do not think it will be exclusive to just RockStars, but Musicans of the popular Genre's.
To have Popular Music Artists Play the Roles of Major investors into the game. (Some people With some money) Would do the game some good. At least on the Common player's side of things. From my personal Expereance When These Land investors Buy Land Areas, The Sales of these tends to help the Overall economy of the game mostly on the supply side of things.
Now Of course It is still an investment for them. that would need to be made. But They have one thing The most common unnamed Land invester has. The Musicians Have Fame. And That is Something that could encourage Certain players to hunt and mine on their lands. To mainly support Their Favorite musicians. Remember That in todays world Musicians Are not Selling As Many Records and CD's as they once have.
Something to mention Rocktropia Is not even close to ready yet in regards to attracting anyone. But i accept it as a Beta phase, To test a few things and Use the exsisting Players to do it.
Seriously NEVERDIE and i really just want to say Neverdie. becouse All Caps is pretty fricking dumb, Drop some of the Ego. Your mobs in game do not need to be named after you. Stupid stuff like this does not attract people if anything it repels them. And This is Entropia Universe. People Are already not willing to participate becouse they think it is stupid and a waste of time. Full of scammers and people built to take advantage of other people. The Truth of the game is someone is going to walk away with your money. Be it Mindark or another player. But the oppertunity that remains is the constant Reminder that That other player could be you.
Now i Do Give NEVERDIE some positive points:
I like the concept of artist owned land areas.
I am looking forward to the new items and oppertunitys on the economic side of things.
Having the Balls to reinvest such a huge amount back into the game.
Now As far as most of the side discussion, Anything Entropia Is not ment for the faint of brain, Impatent, stupid, Gambling addicted, Weak willed, Sheepmen. But i have nothing agenst them joining becouse i know for a fact that MA only gets a small cut of what they put into the game per PED cycle. And after each ped cycle some one like me will be there to take what ever they Farmed for. give them the proper Vendor price for the item and a little extra for it. and just sell it to another person seeking the next All time high. And hopefully in the process make a little extra for myself in the process.
As far as a ponzi type deal. Well i can see how you can see it like this. But there is way to many varibles involved in the whole situation. That turns what would be a ponzi into a real working economy. See not everyone goes out with the purpose of hunting mining or even crafting. But they act as the liquidity for those who do. To keep the people contenualy hunting mining and crafting. This act of contenuing to Cycle ped may give a global. but for the most part the decay MA takes will slowly take its toll. And not all of what MA takes is counted as decay. Becouse if you have better skills you can use better gear. and even if this better gear has more decay. it allows you to be more effective and the more effective you are the less you lose. On the flip side of that is if you are not effective you will lose a little more than what you put in. These gains and losses are traded to the people being most effecient. And Sometimes The Fees from the market and some of the other Money traps will Be added to these exchanges, Giving some participants That Hall of Fame feeling.
So for the most part the system that Mindark Designed Is not flawed. Well it is to one point. The players for the most part do not take the time to seek the best possible Trade partners. And the result is The Traders looking for maximum profits stick to player to player trading instead of market based trading. As well as take too much from the players in terms of Value added onto items Anything higher than the Vendor price, And resales for alot higher than the Market value the item is really worth becouse they completely bypassed the market. not paying the fees involved making the whole system unstable.
But Seriously This game is So Complex. It is really Hard. But if you know what is going on and can speculate, outmanuver the competion, or even be a more fair trader, and can see the value as a real investment. (And The Vendor Value Mindark Will pay to you when ever you want to cash out. and i am pretty sure they will always honor the Vendor value. But the decay is all theirs to do with what they want.) Then This game could be your cup of tea.
That is if your wanting to make money.... Now If you just have a E-Peen and have some cash to back it up... well this is another good choise for you.. cough cough NEVERDIE.
Oh and i am not a Mindark employee. But i am a player. And unliked on the Entropia Forums, becouse i just speculate and take speculation as fact most the time. So my warning is this,,, I could or could not be right. But your the one with a brain. You need to make the choise. Dont just Go off the words of others. But dont shrug off their openions. make your own.
I love you man !
Keep posting I like your insight and your answers, its both funny and so true which makes your posts a pure joy to read!
Keep up the good work! :-)
What is your ingame name or name at the entropiaforums?