the combat system is rubbish, its no diffrent to other mmo's they have just told us their game is soloable, the fact where a single player can take on multip[le enemies. and again like other posters this game is missing that all important mmo factor that makes it an mmo. sure its going to be massive and yes their will be millions of people subscribe, but i cant see how hundreds of players are going to react to oneanother in this mmo. so far its showing you the lone wolf approach.. we mmo gamers dont play mmos to be lone wolfs. we play mmo's because the community is brilliant because we get to play a game like you cannot play when you play a single player xbox title we wanna play mmo games so we can work with other people and meet new people and interact with other people from around the world. so far this game has demonstrated itself from a purely self experience point of view and thats not what an mmorpg is.. sure it works fine for an rpg but its missing that mmo aspect.
it may not be missing it but that is sure as hell all they are showing us!
and where the hell is force jump why cant we move more freely in combat, how come jedi cant dive around like they do in the film and why cant other class's be more fluid, it looks no diffrent to the loke of wow and lord of the rings from what i can see in this clip.
on a posistive note, it looks good sounds good and seems to be relatively exciteing. their is a ton of of wolrds not sure if they will all be available to visit or not. but hey thats yet to be seen, also the voice over dialogue is interesting although ill have most of my volume settings switched off when working with other players. or in guild groups as t/s and vent will take priority.
the game in its self looks pretty good, but its not the looks that make a great game, its the way it plays and how diffrent it is to other games of its genre and the level of content and how the player can interact with said content.
so far all i see is another hack and slash that with promise from bioware comes complete with a gripping story for each class and a master story for the entire game. it shows very little else thats expected to be seen in a modern mmorpg.
no info on crafting the economy trade the currency diplomacy guilds and their options. all these factors are what make the mmo a successfull mmo. if any of these are half assed the game will flop because once yoiu have reached max level unlocked all your skills and gotten bored of pvp in 4 weeks because level cap is only lvl 55 their will be litterally noithing to do in the game.. crafting guilds and their options and the ecnonmy and currency trade are very very very very important aspects of all mmo's. these things are expected from the long term gamers.
im e xpecting a few trolls to pop out the wood work, but dont threat, these blokes are the short term pvp combat types that dont really play an mmo for what its meant to be. they are hack and slash gurru's nothing more. and once the hack and slash is done they move on.
if there is one thing i hate doing, it has to be looking for a good mmo that gives a good long term play experience. so far the only mmo ive dicovered thats held my interest and inspired my imagination for the longest is eve online. and yea and swg. they just offer a level of freedom no other mmorpg has been able to duplicate.
and im sorry to say, if tor isnt upto the standards already sset by the likes of eve and swg styles of game play, because swtor is in their catogory then my time with swtor will be very very limited.
all you have to do is take a s tep back and look at the mess cryptic made of startrek online to understand just how easy it is to completely ruin an idea.
all i wanna say to bioware is, and i have said it on the forums a few times now, "im having trouble seeing the mmo in this mmo."
i want to be able to jump ove rmy opponents head and up onto diffrent levels in the area im in as a jedi. unless this happens its no diffrent to any other linear combat style mmo. i want to have jump not just up and down like you see in every single other mmo. i want animated jumps summersaults backflips side flips rolls side steps aerial assualts and attacks.
it looks just like starwars galaxies combat. the graphics are as good too. no wait the light sabres in swg look better. why cant they just add a detailed jump system. if they can make charecters roll around on the floor and perform those fancy looking combat attacks im pretty damn sure they can give us the jumping too. obviously only jedi can jump rediculously high. other classes will need to have aids. not the s.t.d. the technology type of aid.
and when i say i dont mean a skill that makes you jump, i want jump on the keyboard controls so i can choose to jump upto a level with out having to use a skill. iw anna beable to run and jump and do flips and stuff. come on bioware!!! so far its no diffrent to other mmo's.
Well, as for the first point PvP does work in mmo games, so it is perfectly possible.
I didn't say it wasn't possible. You said "one of the easiest gameplay elements to place into a game is open world or instanced PvP or RvR or whatever you choose to call it." Which is clearly wrong.
Well, actually pvp is one of the easiest elements to place into an mmo, that's why it has been present in so many mmo over the years now ;-)
Youre right and wrong at the same time. But more wrong than right.
Yes any game can have pvp, but to do it right takes more effort than just adding an instanced "arena". To do it right every class should be viable in pvp, and not just in a rock->scissors->paper sense.
Not to derail the thread but WoW is a perfect example of fail-pvp. With some classes being (literally) god-like, and others being almost completely impotent.
I think you're ignoring the fact that if players didn't actually like PvP in their mmo game the PvP would insta-fail. The fact that PvP is still popular, in say games like WoW or EvE, proves you r sorta wrong my friend.
hes actually dead right, pvp is the easiest element to stick in. all it is is the game mechanics used for pve but in certain areas access is granted to use those skill on other players. its really that simple. its just an I/O when you enter an area. thats how lord of the rings works thats how swg works thats how eve works thats how wow works lol, hell thats how they all work, you take the current game you play and when you enter a certain area, the pvp is switched on and you now fight players instead of npc's. its dead dead dead dead simple.
if it is more complex than that then well it certainly doesnt look it or feel it or play like it. it realy is the smallest element to all mmo's pvp is exactly the same as pve. except they switch it on to allow you to use pve combat on players. its not that difficult to understand.
pvp is the tineist part of all games that alot of people like to do, but these people tend to miss the true and full content of mmogames because they are so smitten with pvp.
i like to pvp, but i know the game is not about pvp lol, the game has much much larger content pallet for the players to explore. pvp doesnt add emersion. it actually removes it.
Well, as for the first point PvP does work in mmo games, so it is perfectly possible.
I didn't say it wasn't possible. You said "one of the easiest gameplay elements to place into a game is open world or instanced PvP or RvR or whatever you choose to call it." Which is clearly wrong.
Well, actually pvp is one of the easiest elements to place into an mmo, that's why it has been present in so many mmo over the years now ;-)
Youre right and wrong at the same time. But more wrong than right.
Yes any game can have pvp, but to do it right takes more effort than just adding an instanced "arena". To do it right every class should be viable in pvp, and not just in a rock->scissors->paper sense.
Not to derail the thread but WoW is a perfect example of fail-pvp. With some classes being (literally) god-like, and others being almost completely impotent.
I think you're ignoring the fact that if players didn't actually like PvP in their mmo game the PvP would insta-fail. The fact that PvP is still popular, in say games like WoW or EvE, proves you r sorta wrong my friend.
hes actually dead right, pvp is the easiest element to stick in. all it is is the game mechanics used for pve but in certain areas access is granted to use those skill on other players. its really that simple. its just an I/O when you enter an area. thats how lord of the rings works thats how swg works thats how eve works thats how wow works lol, hell thats how they all work, you take the current game you play and when you enter a certain area, the pvp is switched on and you now fight players instead of npc's. its dead dead dead dead simple.
if it is more complex than that then well it certainly doesnt look it or feel it or play like it. it realy is the smallest element to all mmo's pvp is exactly the same as pve. except they switch it on to allow you to use pve combat on players. its not that difficult to understand.
pvp is the tineist part of all games that alot of people like to do, but these people tend to miss the true and full content of mmogames because they are so smitten with pvp.
i like to pvp, but i know the game is not about pvp lol, the game has much much larger content pallet for the players to explore. pvp doesnt add emersion. it actually removes it.
oh yea i used to make my own player mods, for certain games and makeing the entire game world pvp was as simple as switching it on and off useing the game mechanics options. ive done it myself!! and it was very very very easy and took no effort at all. the hard part is makeing the core game. pve is the difficult part. why ? because all the bad guys have to be suitable for the level of the area they accupy. so players can actually get through said area. pvp is all about max level. if your not max level with the best geer in pvp your some one elses lunch, its that simple.
Im worried about how they talk about other MMORPGS: In other MMO:s you see a gruop of people bashing one enemy, and that isn`t very heroic.
Duh, it`S an MMO. So i ask again where is the mmo part of this MMO? I`ve yet again just have seen an clip that could be from any other singleplayer game out there, not something from an MMO.
Yeah, but that *might* have more to do with the type of enemies they give players to fight. A small group of players might go up against a large group of mobs, or one huge mob, but it would be pretty lame to see 6 players all chiseling away at a single storm trooper type, just because he has an "elite" tag on his health bar.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Yeah, unless i missed it all i have seen is 2 people at the most playing together. Where are the groups? If they say that a group of people beating on a mob is not heroic, so they don't plan on people playing together? It seems like each time they release something just a small comment makes me feel like this game is meant to be a solo or duo experience, not group.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
Yeah, but that *might* have more to do with the type of enemies they give players to fight. A small group of players might go up against a large group of mobs, or one huge mob, but it would be pretty lame to see 6 players all chiseling away at a single storm trooper type, just because he has an "elite" tag on his health bar.
Indeed. Let's hope there are some Rancor-sized bosses to fight.
I do agree that fighting a swarm of enemies can be just as cool. I'd like to have both types of fights. I love base defense games in general. Having a small party have to hold off waves of enemies can be lots of fun.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Anybody who said combat animations looked smooth never played WoW. Blizzard is still ahead but they still have a lot of time to polish things up. Combat definitly didn't look like something new but I didn't expect too many innovations in this area of the game so it's ok with me.
Well, as for the first point PvP does work in mmo games, so it is perfectly possible.
I didn't say it wasn't possible. You said "one of the easiest gameplay elements to place into a game is open world or instanced PvP or RvR or whatever you choose to call it." Which is clearly wrong.
Well, actually pvp is one of the easiest elements to place into an mmo, that's why it has been present in so many mmo over the years now ;-)
Youre right and wrong at the same time. But more wrong than right.
Yes any game can have pvp, but to do it right takes more effort than just adding an instanced "arena". To do it right every class should be viable in pvp, and not just in a rock->scissors->paper sense.
Not to derail the thread but WoW is a perfect example of fail-pvp. With some classes being (literally) god-like, and others being almost completely impotent.
I think you're ignoring the fact that if players didn't actually like PvP in their mmo game the PvP would insta-fail. The fact that PvP is still popular, in say games like WoW or EvE, proves you r sorta wrong my friend.
My point wasnt being made on if people like pvp or dont, or even if its "easy to add to a game". What I was trying to point out is doing it right is anything but as "easy as just adding it to a game".
As pre your example. The corner stone of EVE game play is pvp conflict (its not what the whole game is about). Its a example of where the developers did not just throw it into the game.
WoW on the other hand, is an example of where pvp was added and then more of less ignored. Where new classes and changes to existing class are added without regard to how it affects overall pvp. Its a great pve game, but in my opinion a great example of bad pvp.
Your response to me was based on something I didnt even say. Please reread that quote within a quote within a quote.
I still stand behind what I responed to you to being with. It may be easy to add pvp to a game but it isnt easy to do it right.
And truthfully to do it any other way is a disservice to us the subscriber, and in my opinion makes the developers seem amateurish. And unfortunately most developers take your view of pvp, "F'it, just throw it in there."
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Yeah, unless i missed it all i have seen is 2 people at the most playing together. Where are the groups? If they say that a group of people beating on a mob is not heroic, so they don't plan on people playing together? It seems like each time they release something just a small comment makes me feel like this game is meant to be a solo or duo experience, not group.
It's not a hard concept. In WoW, a group beats on a freakin' fifty-foot tall monster for ten minutes until he drops dead with a "arghhhhhh!" and farts out phat lewtz. In TOR, from what they're saying, a group will kill multiple enemies for ten minutes - probably enemies that are a big stronger than normal, but that are still relatively weak. Their strength will come in numbers. We're all familiar with the concept - if you kill 5 things at once, you generally feel more powerful.
I'm sure there will be areas in TOR that are more traditional, meaning there will be single mobs that are powerful and have some technology or loophole that allows them to be shot in the face a million times for 10 minutes. Shields, regeneration, tanks, whatever. But I'd much rather kill tons of mobs at once than have 25 people focus on one giant boss.
And you get more exp in groups than you do solo, so I see nothing to discourage grouping. People think the fact that everyone gets an NPC companion makes grouping obsolete, but if I have a companion, and you have a companion, and we group up, that's the strength of 4 rather than just 2 (which it would be in other MMOs). I don't see people complaining that pet classes in other MMOs (even pets that tank or heal like TOR's will) ruin grouping.
Death must not be that important in this game as mobs just disappear after being blown up or fall over after being cut in half with a light saber. I don't know about you all but that really captures the essence of Star Wars for me...
Looks like it's going to be an awesome experience. It needs some fine tuning yet but that's why it's about another year off.
I love how they say a group of people beating on an enemy is not heroic, until I heard that I never even thought of it that way. He's right though. You can't have a MMO without the need to group for some things but I don't think everything needs to be done in a group.
I am so glad that the characters are not as cartoony looking as they were in other videos. The disproportionate body parts were enough to keep me away from the game completely. But, it is a very nice looking game now and I can't wait to try it out.
Man, I can't decide what class I want to play... Because you know once you start getting into the story and playing through it and getting immersed you're not going to want to stop. So that makes that initial choice very important. I'm thinking Bounty hunter for the win. We also don't know how many character we're going to be able to have per server, or if we'll be able to mix Republic and Empire characters... I just want to play this game right freaking NOW!!!
Wow, you just saved me some time there as you posted exactly what I wanted to say, pretty much to the T.
To be honest , the combat looks alot like Champions Online and STO... and that is not good thing.
They talk over and over how combat will feel "epic", when in fact there is so much "meh" in this video , that its only "epic" thing about it.
Just the thing i was thinking, I love Star Wars, but this video did not show the "epic" they talked about. I know its a mmo and combat is rarly amasing, but my guess is that after 20m of play u have seen the same "saber motion" atleast once per fight.. Atleast in Star Wars they have granades compaired to STO.
Comments
the combat system is rubbish, its no diffrent to other mmo's they have just told us their game is soloable, the fact where a single player can take on multip[le enemies. and again like other posters this game is missing that all important mmo factor that makes it an mmo. sure its going to be massive and yes their will be millions of people subscribe, but i cant see how hundreds of players are going to react to oneanother in this mmo. so far its showing you the lone wolf approach.. we mmo gamers dont play mmos to be lone wolfs. we play mmo's because the community is brilliant because we get to play a game like you cannot play when you play a single player xbox title we wanna play mmo games so we can work with other people and meet new people and interact with other people from around the world. so far this game has demonstrated itself from a purely self experience point of view and thats not what an mmorpg is.. sure it works fine for an rpg but its missing that mmo aspect.
it may not be missing it but that is sure as hell all they are showing us!
and where the hell is force jump why cant we move more freely in combat, how come jedi cant dive around like they do in the film and why cant other class's be more fluid, it looks no diffrent to the loke of wow and lord of the rings from what i can see in this clip.
on a posistive note, it looks good sounds good and seems to be relatively exciteing. their is a ton of of wolrds not sure if they will all be available to visit or not. but hey thats yet to be seen, also the voice over dialogue is interesting although ill have most of my volume settings switched off when working with other players. or in guild groups as t/s and vent will take priority.
the game in its self looks pretty good, but its not the looks that make a great game, its the way it plays and how diffrent it is to other games of its genre and the level of content and how the player can interact with said content.
so far all i see is another hack and slash that with promise from bioware comes complete with a gripping story for each class and a master story for the entire game. it shows very little else thats expected to be seen in a modern mmorpg.
no info on crafting the economy trade the currency diplomacy guilds and their options. all these factors are what make the mmo a successfull mmo. if any of these are half assed the game will flop because once yoiu have reached max level unlocked all your skills and gotten bored of pvp in 4 weeks because level cap is only lvl 55 their will be litterally noithing to do in the game.. crafting guilds and their options and the ecnonmy and currency trade are very very very very important aspects of all mmo's. these things are expected from the long term gamers.
im e xpecting a few trolls to pop out the wood work, but dont threat, these blokes are the short term pvp combat types that dont really play an mmo for what its meant to be. they are hack and slash gurru's nothing more. and once the hack and slash is done they move on.
if there is one thing i hate doing, it has to be looking for a good mmo that gives a good long term play experience. so far the only mmo ive dicovered thats held my interest and inspired my imagination for the longest is eve online. and yea and swg. they just offer a level of freedom no other mmorpg has been able to duplicate.
and im sorry to say, if tor isnt upto the standards already sset by the likes of eve and swg styles of game play, because swtor is in their catogory then my time with swtor will be very very limited.
all you have to do is take a s tep back and look at the mess cryptic made of startrek online to understand just how easy it is to completely ruin an idea.
all i wanna say to bioware is, and i have said it on the forums a few times now, "im having trouble seeing the mmo in this mmo."
i want to be able to jump ove rmy opponents head and up onto diffrent levels in the area im in as a jedi. unless this happens its no diffrent to any other linear combat style mmo. i want to have jump not just up and down like you see in every single other mmo. i want animated jumps summersaults backflips side flips rolls side steps aerial assualts and attacks.
it looks just like starwars galaxies combat. the graphics are as good too. no wait the light sabres in swg look better. why cant they just add a detailed jump system. if they can make charecters roll around on the floor and perform those fancy looking combat attacks im pretty damn sure they can give us the jumping too. obviously only jedi can jump rediculously high. other classes will need to have aids. not the s.t.d. the technology type of aid.
and when i say i dont mean a skill that makes you jump, i want jump on the keyboard controls so i can choose to jump upto a level with out having to use a skill. iw anna beable to run and jump and do flips and stuff. come on bioware!!! so far its no diffrent to other mmo's.
hes actually dead right, pvp is the easiest element to stick in. all it is is the game mechanics used for pve but in certain areas access is granted to use those skill on other players. its really that simple. its just an I/O when you enter an area. thats how lord of the rings works thats how swg works thats how eve works thats how wow works lol, hell thats how they all work, you take the current game you play and when you enter a certain area, the pvp is switched on and you now fight players instead of npc's. its dead dead dead dead simple.
if it is more complex than that then well it certainly doesnt look it or feel it or play like it. it realy is the smallest element to all mmo's pvp is exactly the same as pve. except they switch it on to allow you to use pve combat on players. its not that difficult to understand.
pvp is the tineist part of all games that alot of people like to do, but these people tend to miss the true and full content of mmogames because they are so smitten with pvp.
i like to pvp, but i know the game is not about pvp lol, the game has much much larger content pallet for the players to explore. pvp doesnt add emersion. it actually removes it.
oh yea i used to make my own player mods, for certain games and makeing the entire game world pvp was as simple as switching it on and off useing the game mechanics options. ive done it myself!! and it was very very very easy and took no effort at all. the hard part is makeing the core game. pve is the difficult part. why ? because all the bad guys have to be suitable for the level of the area they accupy. so players can actually get through said area. pvp is all about max level. if your not max level with the best geer in pvp your some one elses lunch, its that simple.
They need to work on animation and frame rate issues, still.
I can already tell this game is going to be filled with little kids.
Yeah, but that *might* have more to do with the type of enemies they give players to fight. A small group of players might go up against a large group of mobs, or one huge mob, but it would be pretty lame to see 6 players all chiseling away at a single storm trooper type, just because he has an "elite" tag on his health bar.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Yeah, unless i missed it all i have seen is 2 people at the most playing together. Where are the groups? If they say that a group of people beating on a mob is not heroic, so they don't plan on people playing together? It seems like each time they release something just a small comment makes me feel like this game is meant to be a solo or duo experience, not group.
"Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk
Indeed. Let's hope there are some Rancor-sized bosses to fight.
I do agree that fighting a swarm of enemies can be just as cool. I'd like to have both types of fights. I love base defense games in general. Having a small party have to hold off waves of enemies can be lots of fun.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Combat looks awesome! I hope they make a crafting and social video so we can see other aspects of the game too.
They've actually done it. They've managed to make 'heroic' look boring.
Anybody who said combat animations looked smooth never played WoW. Blizzard is still ahead but they still have a lot of time to polish things up. Combat definitly didn't look like something new but I didn't expect too many innovations in this area of the game so it's ok with me.
My point wasnt being made on if people like pvp or dont, or even if its "easy to add to a game". What I was trying to point out is doing it right is anything but as "easy as just adding it to a game".
As pre your example. The corner stone of EVE game play is pvp conflict (its not what the whole game is about). Its a example of where the developers did not just throw it into the game.
WoW on the other hand, is an example of where pvp was added and then more of less ignored. Where new classes and changes to existing class are added without regard to how it affects overall pvp. Its a great pve game, but in my opinion a great example of bad pvp.
Your response to me was based on something I didnt even say. Please reread that quote within a quote within a quote.
I still stand behind what I responed to you to being with. It may be easy to add pvp to a game but it isnt easy to do it right.
And truthfully to do it any other way is a disservice to us the subscriber, and in my opinion makes the developers seem amateurish. And unfortunately most developers take your view of pvp, "F'it, just throw it in there."
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
It's not a hard concept. In WoW, a group beats on a freakin' fifty-foot tall monster for ten minutes until he drops dead with a "arghhhhhh!" and farts out phat lewtz. In TOR, from what they're saying, a group will kill multiple enemies for ten minutes - probably enemies that are a big stronger than normal, but that are still relatively weak. Their strength will come in numbers. We're all familiar with the concept - if you kill 5 things at once, you generally feel more powerful.
I'm sure there will be areas in TOR that are more traditional, meaning there will be single mobs that are powerful and have some technology or loophole that allows them to be shot in the face a million times for 10 minutes. Shields, regeneration, tanks, whatever. But I'd much rather kill tons of mobs at once than have 25 people focus on one giant boss.
And you get more exp in groups than you do solo, so I see nothing to discourage grouping. People think the fact that everyone gets an NPC companion makes grouping obsolete, but if I have a companion, and you have a companion, and we group up, that's the strength of 4 rather than just 2 (which it would be in other MMOs). I don't see people complaining that pet classes in other MMOs (even pets that tank or heal like TOR's will) ruin grouping.
I think William Wallace is done growing.
Death must not be that important in this game as mobs just disappear after being blown up or fall over after being cut in half with a light saber. I don't know about you all but that really captures the essence of Star Wars for me...
Is that the best they can do in 2010? Would think it was STO all over more hype useless gameplay.
The graphics look stupid. Worse than B cartoons WTH?
The more I see, the less I like it.
One thing that makes it look not like SW, is having Jedi and Sith wearing armour. In the movies - only Vader wore armour (and we know why).
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Looks like it's going to be an awesome experience. It needs some fine tuning yet but that's why it's about another year off.
I love how they say a group of people beating on an enemy is not heroic, until I heard that I never even thought of it that way. He's right though. You can't have a MMO without the need to group for some things but I don't think everything needs to be done in a group.
I am so glad that the characters are not as cartoony looking as they were in other videos. The disproportionate body parts were enough to keep me away from the game completely. But, it is a very nice looking game now and I can't wait to try it out.
Wow, you just saved me some time there as you posted exactly what I wanted to say, pretty much to the T.
Can I have my brain back now?
Your fail comment, failed.
Just the thing i was thinking, I love Star Wars, but this video did not show the "epic" they talked about. I know its a mmo and combat is rarly amasing, but my guess is that after 20m of play u have seen the same "saber motion" atleast once per fight.. Atleast in Star Wars they have granades compaired to STO.