Is this another complaint about Blizz selling vanity items?
EQ2 has a monthly sub and they've had a cash shop for years now.
I don't pursue vanity items so I don't care.
You should care, because the content that goes into P2P cash shops used to be added for no additional charge. So, you are getting less for your money.
If you don't care about the stuff being sold, then obviously you are completely selfish and really shouldn't be gaming with other people.
I don't collect vanity pets in games, but I recognize that it is a source of entertainement for many. So, it does matter. If a game decided to charge real money for each run in a raid dungeon, that would not directly affect most players, so I guess that would be okay too?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If your big beef is largely due to the whole WoW mount thingie... yes, it's a total ripoff. It makes me wretch, the fact that people are willing to pay nearly the price of an expansion for the thing. But, despite being a lefty-moderate that believes heavily in regulating certain markets, MMO's are certainly not one of those markets. If a bunch of idiots want to waste money on a completely non-essential epeen add to a game that's completely non-essential(for survival) to play, then that's just the free market taking money away from stupid people. Hopefully Blizzard employees and investors will take all that idiot money and spend it wisely. Not likely, but here's to hoping...
'Lefties' typically care a lot about equailty. A cash shop promotes inequality. You know very well that some people want those items, but can't afford to pay real money for them.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No offense to OP or his/her supporters is intended, so forgive me if I get this wrong but y'all sound like "Mr Pink" from Reservoir Dogs arguing that you shouldn't have to tip the pizza delivery guy.
You're absofrickinlutely correctamundo all up one side and down the other. You are "entitled" to all the content the same as you are "entitled" to hot fresh steamy pizza. You won't get it. But if feeling "entitled" to it spins your gyros, well... good luck with that.
But the plain truthful fact of life is that some people don't mind paying extra for a greater perception of access or fun.
Enough people are always going to either not mind paying extra or will actively WANT to pay extra for something other people won't pay for.
"Getting over it" would be a good strategy for helping to keep your anxiety or anger levels at a minimum. Just sayin'.
(Hint: I'm one of 'em. It bothers me not a whit that some games charge for content updates. I rarely buy 'em, nor do I spend very much money in cash shops, but whether I do or not, I don't bitch about it or try to tell myself it isn't fair.)
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
Originally posted by fnorgby No offense to OP or his/her supporters is intended, so forgive me if I get this wrong but y'all sound like "Mr Pink" from Reservoir Dogs arguing that you shouldn't have to tip the pizza delivery guy. You're absofrickinlutely correctamundo all up one side and down the other. You are "entitled" to all the content the same as you are "entitled" to hot fresh steamy pizza. You won't get it. But if feeling "entitled" to it spins your gyros, well... good luck with that. But the plain truthful fact of life is that some people don't mind paying extra for a greater perception of access or fun. Enough people are always going to either not mind paying extra or will actively WANT to pay extra for something other people won't pay for. "Getting over it" would be a good strategy for helping to keep your anxiety or anger levels at a minimum. Just sayin'. (Hint: I'm one of 'em. It bothers me not a whit that some games charge for content updates. I rarely buy 'em, nor do I spend very much money in cash shops, but whether I do or not, I don't bitch about it or try to tell myself it isn't fair.)
I agree with this, but unfortunately its the American way. We blow up the trivial issues and ignore the serious ones. We cry about our little issues, but offer up no other compromise or solution to fix the issue. Again, until a few years pass (when cash shop become the norm), this will be a never-ending battle amongst forum posters and its honestly overdone.
Why another thread about the same thing? Its rather pointless and perhaps its just peoples vain attempts to hopefully be heard if they scream loud enough aka spam forum boards with this issue. People are paying into them, nothing is stopping them from enjoying the game so why are the real MMO players letting it get to them.
I agree that ultimately its their loss and the best thing for them would be to get over it and move on. Its not a battle worth picking especially if its a model that is working. It might be selfish of the company to be charging people for things like that, but its also selfish by the complainers as well when you start trying determining how the actual game should implement certain things as well when you didnt create it in the first place.
If your big beef is largely due to the whole WoW mount thingie... yes, it's a total ripoff. It makes me wretch, the fact that people are willing to pay nearly the price of an expansion for the thing. But, despite being a lefty-moderate that believes heavily in regulating certain markets, MMO's are certainly not one of those markets. If a bunch of idiots want to waste money on a completely non-essential epeen add to a game that's completely non-essential(for survival) to play, then that's just the free market taking money away from stupid people. Hopefully Blizzard employees and investors will take all that idiot money and spend it wisely. Not likely, but here's to hoping...
'Lefties' typically care a lot about equailty. A cash shop promotes inequality. You know very well that some people want those items, but can't afford to pay real money for them.
I get the idea you're just baiting by exaggerating lefty positions, but nonetheless...
There are those who can't afford $14.99. If they can't afford a few extra bucks for addons, they probably shouldn't be spending the $14.99 for the sub.
We're not talking about heat, food, water, shelter, electricity, health care here. We're talking about pointless addons to a video game.
If your big beef is largely due to the whole WoW mount thingie... yes, it's a total ripoff. It makes me wretch, the fact that people are willing to pay nearly the price of an expansion for the thing. But, despite being a lefty-moderate that believes heavily in regulating certain markets, MMO's are certainly not one of those markets. If a bunch of idiots want to waste money on a completely non-essential epeen add to a game that's completely non-essential(for survival) to play, then that's just the free market taking money away from stupid people. Hopefully Blizzard employees and investors will take all that idiot money and spend it wisely. Not likely, but here's to hoping...
'Lefties' typically care a lot about equailty. A cash shop promotes inequality. You know very well that some people want those items, but can't afford to pay real money for them.
I get the idea you're just baiting by exaggerating lefty positions, but nonetheless...
There are those who can't afford $14.99. If they can't afford a few extra bucks for addons, they probably shouldn't be spending the $14.99 for the sub.
We're not talking about heat, food, water, shelter, electricity, health care here. We're talking about pointless addons to a video game.
All previous MMOs added in extra fluff features FOR FREE. It's what help makes a good MMO, having a large variety of things to get. Imagine of Dark Age of Camelot charged real money for guild emblems or armor dyes? Or raid dungeons? Christ. How did things get this ba-... oh right, Warcraft.
We have a monthly fee for a reason, server upkeep, and game add ons. Keeping half those add ons out of the game, and rereleasing them for extra money is just dirty.
All previous MMOs added in extra fluff features FOR FREE. It's what help makes a good MMO, having a large variety of things to get. Imagine of Dark Age of Camelot charged real money for guild emblems or armor dyes? Or raid dungeons? Christ. How did things get this ba-... oh right, Warcraft.
We have a monthly fee for a reason, server upkeep, and game add ons. Keeping half those add ons out of the game, and rereleasing them for extra money is just dirty.
When DAoC came out, $14.99 was quite a bit more compensation than it is now. With the exception of games with high sub numbers, 14.99 doesn't provide an adequate profit, if one at all, to keep a game going.
Further, MMO's STILL give out free fluff, cash shop or not. Many even give you the opportunity to get those items OUTSIDE of the cash shop.
I'd rather have a shop full of crap to choose not to buy rather than a more expensive sub. I can't be clearer on that.
We have a monthly fee for a reason, server upkeep, and game add ons. Keeping half those add ons out of the game, and rereleasing them for extra money is just dirty.
OTOH, charging the few folks interested in this one thing some money for it, and then funneling the extra money back into the game is...commendable.
Good luck providing actual evidence either way as to what's happening.
We have a monthly fee for a reason, server upkeep, and game add ons. Keeping half those add ons out of the game, and rereleasing them for extra money is just dirty.
OTOH, charging the few folks interested in this one thing some money for it, and then funneling the extra money back into the game is...commendable.
Good luck providing actual evidence either way as to what's happening.
There are probably plenty of folks interested, and they'd love to get the items and whatnot, by PLAYING the game they already PAY for. Not having to pay MORE on top of that.
All previous MMOs added in extra fluff features FOR FREE. It's what help makes a good MMO, having a large variety of things to get. Imagine of Dark Age of Camelot charged real money for guild emblems or armor dyes? Or raid dungeons? Christ. How did things get this ba-... oh right, Warcraft.
We have a monthly fee for a reason, server upkeep, and game add ons. Keeping half those add ons out of the game, and rereleasing them for extra money is just dirty.
When DAoC came out, $14.99 was quite a bit more compensation than it is now. With the exception of games with high sub numbers, 14.99 doesn't provide an adequate profit, if one at all, to keep a game going.
Further, MMO's STILL give out free fluff, cash shop or not. Many even give you the opportunity to get those items OUTSIDE of the cash shop.
I'd rather have a shop full of crap to choose not to buy rather than a more expensive sub. I can't be clearer on that.
You're honestly trying to argue that a 50$ box sale and 15 bucks a month isn't enough to make a profit? Do you have ANY evidence of that? You're out of your tree. MMOs have gotten by without item shops for 15+ years now. In 1999, the monthly fee was 10 bucks. Now its 15. There's all the inflation compensation you need. Just as profitable as it was then.
You're honestly trying to argue that a 50$ box sale and 15 bucks a month isn't enough to make a profit? Do you have ANY evidence of that? You're out of your tree. MMOs have gotten by without item shops for 15+ years now. In 1999, the monthly fee was 10 bucks. Now its 15. There's all the inflation compensation you need. Just as profitable as it was then.
Obviously alot of mmorpg company are lossing money. That's why it says net loss in their financial report.
You're honestly trying to argue that a 50$ box sale and 15 bucks a month isn't enough to make a profit? Do you have ANY evidence of that? You're out of your tree. MMOs have gotten by without item shops for 15+ years now. In 1999, the monthly fee was 10 bucks. Now its 15. There's all the inflation compensation you need. Just as profitable as it was then.
Obviously alot of mmorpg company are lossing money. That's why it says net loss in their financial report.
That might have something to do with the fact that they're making bad MMORPGs.
They're aiming for the WoW audience, who generally aren't MMORPG gamers, they're Warcraft gamers, and they won't leave for something thats exactly the same, even if they're aware of an MMORPG genre (most WoW players aren't).
But go ahead, present to me all the MMORPGs that are losing money, and we can probably tie a failed MMO launch to them, which accounts for the money lost.
That might have something to do with the fact that they're making bad MMORPGs.
They're aiming for the WoW audience, who generally aren't MMORPG gamers, they're Warcraft gamers, and they won't leave for something thats exactly the same, even if they're aware of an MMORPG genre (most WoW players aren't).
But go ahead, present to me all the MMORPGs that are losing money, and we can probably tie a failed MMO launch to them, which accounts for the money lost.
I never understand the wow model argument. People keep claiming on how good UO, DoTA, SWG model are yet its population went from peak to nothing when we all know what happen.
Obvoiusly all those MMO lossing money are bad game, else it won't loss money. But if there are that many subscription based game that losss money to at best break even, I take it it's not easy to survive in todays market.
That might have something to do with the fact that they're making bad MMORPGs.
They're aiming for the WoW audience, who generally aren't MMORPG gamers, they're Warcraft gamers, and they won't leave for something thats exactly the same, even if they're aware of an MMORPG genre (most WoW players aren't).
But go ahead, present to me all the MMORPGs that are losing money, and we can probably tie a failed MMO launch to them, which accounts for the money lost.
I never understand the wow model argument. People keep claiming on how good UO, DoTA, SWG model are yet its population went from peak to nothing when we all know what happen.
Obvoiusly all those MMO lossing money are bad game, else it won't loss money. But if there are that many subscription based game that losss money to at best break even, I take it it's not easy to survive in todays market.
Don't try to pass judgement on past MMOs when you clearly know very little about them.
There's a reason people don't play those games anymore, and it's not because they were "bad games", else they never would have made any money. Most of them have been warped and changed from what originally made them popular, or they 're no longer supported by their parent company. Usually a combination of the two.
There's a reason people don't play those games anymore, and it's not because they were "bad games", else they never would have made any money. Most of them have been warped and changed from what originally made them popular, or they 're no longer supported by their parent company. Usually a combination of the two.
SWG - NGE
UO - Trammel
DAoC - Trials of Atlantis, /level 20, instances
What ever happened you can't deny all of them went from its peak to nil quite fast.
Lets take WoW and Dragon Age:Origins as a comparison between buying a game for '50 bucks' as suggested above, and 50 bucks plus 15 a month for WoW.
You buy DAO, which was shipped with some official DLC already available (and included, depending on what you bought). The development is done. The game is released, and it is installed and played on your computer. Post release, there is little requirement for the studio to devote much time to the game.
You buy WoW, which has regular content updates that are not paid for, but developed by the team as was the original game. The games are hosted on a staggering number of servers. There are servers for the instances. A huge amount of bandwith. Tech support guys to deal with accounts, game issues, connection issues and stolen accounts. GSM's to deal with in-game issues. All of whom require pay/maintenance/upgrades/food/any combination of the above. The initial payment to buy a game would never, ever, in a million years stretch to cover everything Blizz has had to stump up to keep WoW running from release until now.
If you want the sort of support (regardless of what you think of it), extra content and huge number of servers of WoW (or other P2P games for that matter, although they might not have quite as much support/content/serever capacity) you pay for it. If you don't want to pay, play a lesser F2P game. Yes, Blizz are turning a profit. That's what they're there for. That is there purpose.
And please drop the notion that 15 bucks a month should be enough to sustain P2P's that have less subs than WoW. Inflation alone makes that a moot arguement. As was stated earlier, if a cash shop opens to stop subs going up, then great.
I'd rather have people with loads of spare income spunk it all on random extra stuff than see my subs increase. Put like that, lots of other people have seen the sense in cash shops, too.
Lets take WoW and Dragon Age:Origins as a comparison between buying a game for '50 bucks' as suggested above, and 50 bucks plus 15 a month for WoW.
You buy DAO, which was shipped with some official DLC already available (and included, depending on what you bought). The development is done. The game is released, and it is installed and played on your computer. Post release, there is little requirement for the studio to devote much time to the game.
You buy WoW, which has regular content updates that are not paid for, but developed by the team as was the original game. The games are hosted on a staggering number of servers. There are servers for the instances. A huge amount of bandwith. Tech support guys to deal with accounts, game issues, connection issues and stolen accounts. GSM's to deal with in-game issues. All of whom require pay/maintenance/upgrades/food/any combination of the above. The initial payment to buy a game would never, ever, in a million years stretch to cover everything Blizz has had to stump up to keep WoW running from release until now.
Clearly, Blizzard did not make WoW to be profitable after just a few months. They made it to be profitable long-term. Which has worked out very well for them.
If you want the sort of support (regardless of what you think of it), extra content and huge number of servers of WoW (or other P2P games for that matter, although they might not have quite as much support/content/serever capacity) you pay for it. If you don't want to pay, play a lesser F2P game. Yes, Blizz are turning a profit. That's what they're there for. That is there purpose.
It's not our purpose to see that they do make a profit. If they don't provide a good enough service for what they charge, then they should go out of business. If you want my money, you had better make me happy, or you won't even be getting the $15 a month.
If you can't make a working profit of the $15 - raise the sub fee. The reason no one does is that no one has released a better game than WoW since it came out.
No one is advocating for the players with the MMO companies. No one should be advocating for the companies here.
A cash shop in a P2P MMO is a dodge. A scam.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Lets take WoW and Dragon Age:Origins as a comparison between buying a game for '50 bucks' as suggested above, and 50 bucks plus 15 a month for WoW.
You buy DAO, which was shipped with some official DLC already available (and included, depending on what you bought). The development is done. The game is released, and it is installed and played on your computer. Post release, there is little requirement for the studio to devote much time to the game.
You buy WoW, which has regular content updates that are not paid for, but developed by the team as was the original game. The games are hosted on a staggering number of servers. There are servers for the instances. A huge amount of bandwith. Tech support guys to deal with accounts, game issues, connection issues and stolen accounts. GSM's to deal with in-game issues. All of whom require pay/maintenance/upgrades/food/any combination of the above. The initial payment to buy a game would never, ever, in a million years stretch to cover everything Blizz has had to stump up to keep WoW running from release until now.
Clearly, Blizzard did not make WoW to be profitable after jsuta few months. They made it to be profitable long-term. Which has worked out very well for them.
If you want the sort of support (regardless of what you think of it), extra content and huge number of servers of WoW (or other P2P games for that matter, although they might not have quite as much support/content/serever capacity) you pay for it. If you don't want to pay, play a lesser F2P game. Yes, Blizz are turning a profit. That's what they're there for. That is there purpose.
It's not our purpose to see that they do make a profit. If they don't provide a good enough service for what they charge, then they should go out of business. If you want my money, you had better make me happy, or you won't even be getting the $15 a month.
If you can't make a working profit of the $15 - raise the sub fee. The reason no one does is that no one has released a better game than WoW since it came out.
That's not a realistic way to view this tbh. We all looked at how much the subscription was and asked ourselves whether or not we would be happy paying that before our free trial ran out (I hope). This formed a large basis of whether or not we would be happy to subscribe (does my enjoyment of the game justify the cash they're asking). And, if you paid subs for a game, then you must have answered yes.
A game company is only too aware of this. They know that raising subs will annoy players and lose them x amount out people as a result. That doesn't need advocating, because it is very, very simple economics.
No one is advocating for the players with the MMO companies. No one should be advocating for the companies here.
That's saying an arguement isn't valid because you have no counter arguement. Running an MMO costs more money than just developing it and throwing it on the shelves. You can't ignore that. Ongoing costs need to be offset, and that is done through subs.
A cash shop in a P2P MMO is a dodge. A scam.
It's obvious, there is no trick, you can see exactly what they are trying to acheive. I say again, they are offsetting increasing costs without penalising everyone. I might not have a shiny new mount, but I am not paying an increasing sub. Good deal.
That's not a realistic way to view this tbh. We all looked at how much the subscription was and asked ourselves whether or not we would be happy paying that before our free trial ran out (I hope). This formed a large basis of whether or not we would be happy to subscribe (does my enjoyment of the game justify the cash they're asking). And, if you paid subs for a game, then you must have answered yes.
And they decided how much their subscription fee would be before they released the game.
That's saying an arguement isn't valid because you have no counter arguement. Running an MMO costs more money than just developing it and throwing it on the shelves. You can't ignore that. Ongoing costs need to be offset, and that is done through subs.
Which they determined prior to even releasing the game.
It's obvious, there is no trick, you can see exactly what they are trying to acheive. I say again, they are offsetting increasing costs without penalising everyone.
We don't know if their costs are increasing or not, and it's irrelevant in any case. Blizzard obviously doesn't care about our finances, and we shouldn't care about theirs.
I might not have a shiny new mount, but I am not paying an increasing sub. Good deal.
If there was no cash shop, that mount would be in the game to be played for, instead of paid for. Bad deal. For the players, I mean.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Its time someone starts a socialism again so we programmers can move there and start programming the best MMORPG of all times and everyone could play it for free.
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter If there was no cash shop, that mount would be in the game to be played for, instead of paid for. Bad deal. For the players, I mean.
Not really. That's entirely based on assumption. They can just as easily not release it if not for a shop or save it for an expansion or even their next MMO. Let's not start assuming "what if" scenarios when there's no proof to back it up nor would there ever be. Both sides could play the assumption game all day on this topic.
Comments
You should care, because the content that goes into P2P cash shops used to be added for no additional charge. So, you are getting less for your money.
If you don't care about the stuff being sold, then obviously you are completely selfish and really shouldn't be gaming with other people.
I don't collect vanity pets in games, but I recognize that it is a source of entertainement for many. So, it does matter. If a game decided to charge real money for each run in a raid dungeon, that would not directly affect most players, so I guess that would be okay too?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
'Lefties' typically care a lot about equailty. A cash shop promotes inequality. You know very well that some people want those items, but can't afford to pay real money for them.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No offense to OP or his/her supporters is intended, so forgive me if I get this wrong but y'all sound like "Mr Pink" from Reservoir Dogs arguing that you shouldn't have to tip the pizza delivery guy.
You're absofrickinlutely correctamundo all up one side and down the other. You are "entitled" to all the content the same as you are "entitled" to hot fresh steamy pizza. You won't get it. But if feeling "entitled" to it spins your gyros, well... good luck with that.
But the plain truthful fact of life is that some people don't mind paying extra for a greater perception of access or fun.
Enough people are always going to either not mind paying extra or will actively WANT to pay extra for something other people won't pay for.
"Getting over it" would be a good strategy for helping to keep your anxiety or anger levels at a minimum. Just sayin'.
(Hint: I'm one of 'em. It bothers me not a whit that some games charge for content updates. I rarely buy 'em, nor do I spend very much money in cash shops, but whether I do or not, I don't bitch about it or try to tell myself it isn't fair.)
I can also roleplay the tower in a chess game and shout "is that a peasant at the horizon I see? I will smash it I will! Oh damn I broke one of my merlons!". -- maji
I agree with this, but unfortunately its the American way. We blow up the trivial issues and ignore the serious ones. We cry about our little issues, but offer up no other compromise or solution to fix the issue. Again, until a few years pass (when cash shop become the norm), this will be a never-ending battle amongst forum posters and its honestly overdone.
Why another thread about the same thing? Its rather pointless and perhaps its just peoples vain attempts to hopefully be heard if they scream loud enough aka spam forum boards with this issue. People are paying into them, nothing is stopping them from enjoying the game so why are the real MMO players letting it get to them.
I agree that ultimately its their loss and the best thing for them would be to get over it and move on. Its not a battle worth picking especially if its a model that is working. It might be selfish of the company to be charging people for things like that, but its also selfish by the complainers as well when you start trying determining how the actual game should implement certain things as well when you didnt create it in the first place.
"Why are there no X race Q_Q"
"Why can't I customize my character more Q_Q"
"Ooh pretty graphics/good company/nice IP... Problems? What problems? This game has everything right!"
It is in the MMO companies' interest for us to stop complaining about cash shops. That is enough reason to keep the debate open.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I get the idea you're just baiting by exaggerating lefty positions, but nonetheless...
There are those who can't afford $14.99. If they can't afford a few extra bucks for addons, they probably shouldn't be spending the $14.99 for the sub.
We're not talking about heat, food, water, shelter, electricity, health care here. We're talking about pointless addons to a video game.
If they were pointless, no one would buy them.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Have you set foot inside a store... ANY store, lately?
All previous MMOs added in extra fluff features FOR FREE. It's what help makes a good MMO, having a large variety of things to get. Imagine of Dark Age of Camelot charged real money for guild emblems or armor dyes? Or raid dungeons? Christ. How did things get this ba-... oh right, Warcraft.
We have a monthly fee for a reason, server upkeep, and game add ons. Keeping half those add ons out of the game, and rereleasing them for extra money is just dirty.
When DAoC came out, $14.99 was quite a bit more compensation than it is now. With the exception of games with high sub numbers, 14.99 doesn't provide an adequate profit, if one at all, to keep a game going.
Further, MMO's STILL give out free fluff, cash shop or not. Many even give you the opportunity to get those items OUTSIDE of the cash shop.
I'd rather have a shop full of crap to choose not to buy rather than a more expensive sub. I can't be clearer on that.
OTOH, charging the few folks interested in this one thing some money for it, and then funneling the extra money back into the game is...commendable.
Good luck providing actual evidence either way as to what's happening.
There are probably plenty of folks interested, and they'd love to get the items and whatnot, by PLAYING the game they already PAY for. Not having to pay MORE on top of that.
You're honestly trying to argue that a 50$ box sale and 15 bucks a month isn't enough to make a profit? Do you have ANY evidence of that? You're out of your tree. MMOs have gotten by without item shops for 15+ years now. In 1999, the monthly fee was 10 bucks. Now its 15. There's all the inflation compensation you need. Just as profitable as it was then.
Obviously alot of mmorpg company are lossing money. That's why it says net loss in their financial report.
That might have something to do with the fact that they're making bad MMORPGs.
They're aiming for the WoW audience, who generally aren't MMORPG gamers, they're Warcraft gamers, and they won't leave for something thats exactly the same, even if they're aware of an MMORPG genre (most WoW players aren't).
But go ahead, present to me all the MMORPGs that are losing money, and we can probably tie a failed MMO launch to them, which accounts for the money lost.
I never understand the wow model argument. People keep claiming on how good UO, DoTA, SWG model are yet its population went from peak to nothing when we all know what happen.
Obvoiusly all those MMO lossing money are bad game, else it won't loss money. But if there are that many subscription based game that losss money to at best break even, I take it it's not easy to survive in todays market.
Don't try to pass judgement on past MMOs when you clearly know very little about them.
There's a reason people don't play those games anymore, and it's not because they were "bad games", else they never would have made any money. Most of them have been warped and changed from what originally made them popular, or they 're no longer supported by their parent company. Usually a combination of the two.
SWG - NGE
UO - Trammel
DAoC - Trials of Atlantis, /level 20, instances
What ever happened you can't deny all of them went from its peak to nil quite fast.
feel I need point out the obvious.
Lets take WoW and Dragon Age:Origins as a comparison between buying a game for '50 bucks' as suggested above, and 50 bucks plus 15 a month for WoW.
You buy DAO, which was shipped with some official DLC already available (and included, depending on what you bought). The development is done. The game is released, and it is installed and played on your computer. Post release, there is little requirement for the studio to devote much time to the game.
You buy WoW, which has regular content updates that are not paid for, but developed by the team as was the original game. The games are hosted on a staggering number of servers. There are servers for the instances. A huge amount of bandwith. Tech support guys to deal with accounts, game issues, connection issues and stolen accounts. GSM's to deal with in-game issues. All of whom require pay/maintenance/upgrades/food/any combination of the above. The initial payment to buy a game would never, ever, in a million years stretch to cover everything Blizz has had to stump up to keep WoW running from release until now.
If you want the sort of support (regardless of what you think of it), extra content and huge number of servers of WoW (or other P2P games for that matter, although they might not have quite as much support/content/serever capacity) you pay for it. If you don't want to pay, play a lesser F2P game. Yes, Blizz are turning a profit. That's what they're there for. That is there purpose.
And please drop the notion that 15 bucks a month should be enough to sustain P2P's that have less subs than WoW. Inflation alone makes that a moot arguement. As was stated earlier, if a cash shop opens to stop subs going up, then great.
I'd rather have people with loads of spare income spunk it all on random extra stuff than see my subs increase. Put like that, lots of other people have seen the sense in cash shops, too.
It's not our purpose to see that they do make a profit. If they don't provide a good enough service for what they charge, then they should go out of business. If you want my money, you had better make me happy, or you won't even be getting the $15 a month.
If you can't make a working profit of the $15 - raise the sub fee. The reason no one does is that no one has released a better game than WoW since it came out.
No one is advocating for the players with the MMO companies. No one should be advocating for the companies here.
A cash shop in a P2P MMO is a dodge. A scam.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If there was no cash shop, that mount would be in the game to be played for, instead of paid for. Bad deal. For the players, I mean.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Meh.
Its time someone starts a socialism again so we programmers can move there and start programming the best MMORPG of all times and everyone could play it for free.
Not really. That's entirely based on assumption. They can just as easily not release it if not for a shop or save it for an expansion or even their next MMO. Let's not start assuming "what if" scenarios when there's no proof to back it up nor would there ever be. Both sides could play the assumption game all day on this topic.