But I am still a little afraid, in DaoC I also had some attacks that could only be done with block, evade, and parry, but I never used them, because it was hard to notice when such event happens and if it happens you quickly had to search for the right skill.
So I hope SE can make it in a better way.
Hm, depends on why was it hard to notice? Were the animations lacking?
That won't be the case with XIV, but if it was due to something else, can't answer that one.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
And let's not forget that shields, and later offhand weapons will get their own action bar. For those classes you're not simply inputting one command at time, but two.
I would imagine it would get quite hectic when you have to position yourself correctly, get monsters attention from other party members by using various skills and also keep their attention (one skill requires you to block an enemy's strike before you can trigger it) and also be able to block most of monster's attacks (so you have to look out for their attack patterns... and with a bit of speculation added in, monsters may start to see through your blocks and change their attack speed to counter your constant blocks as well).
There's also the Battle Regimen co-operative system which you should be able to participate in while doing all aforementioned things.
I don't think we'll get "bored" with this one.
EDIT: Speculation is no longer speculation: There are indeed some instant abilities that do not require action gauge to be full, however they require a little amount of TP (you get around 450 TP with one normal strike as Archer, the skill costs 200 TP).
Once you block/evade an attack, you can trigger the skill that works only when said occurrence happens. It has no cooldown, so you can use it always when you block or evade a hit. The system adds quite a bit of interaction to the combat.
"Used Slash (normal strike).
Blocked an attack during the slash animation, immediately used Phalanx (only usable after blocking).
Main-hand Action Gauge finished charging by then. Followed the Phalanx with Red Lotus/Slash/Circle Slash."
Three hits in a matter of few seconds.
Ah great! I like that.
But I am still a little afraid, in DaoC I also had some attacks that could only be done with block, evade, and parry, but I never used them, because it was hard to notice when such event happens and if it happens you quickly had to search for the right skill.
So I hope SE can make it in a better way.
The way vanguard handles this is with a sound cue. That seems to work.
I'm all for combat speed being the same pace as 11. What I'd hate to see is the speed to select the skills you want to use as slow as 11. It was aggravating waiting on the ctrl and alt hotbars to pull down and then activate something. Windower helped, but you should not have to use 3rd party programs to make a game playable.
I'm all for combat speed being the same pace as 11. What I'd hate to see is the speed to select the skills you want to use as slow as 11. It was aggravating waiting on the ctrl and alt hotbars to pull down and then activate something. Windower helped, but you should not have to use 3rd party programs to make a game playable.
Yeah, I really hated having to use windower for the recast timer, but there was no way to keep up with provoke and shadow cast timers in the game that wasn't a headache =/
I'm all for combat speed being the same pace as 11. What I'd hate to see is the speed to select the skills you want to use as slow as 11. It was aggravating waiting on the ctrl and alt hotbars to pull down and then activate something. Windower helped, but you should not have to use 3rd party programs to make a game playable.
your dream has come true ;D
there's an action bar now and it is rather quick to select spells. all you need wait for (but you don't have to) is to charge the spell for potency.
I'm all for combat speed being the same pace as 11. What I'd hate to see is the speed to select the skills you want to use as slow as 11. It was aggravating waiting on the ctrl and alt hotbars to pull down and then activate something. Windower helped, but you should not have to use 3rd party programs to make a game playable.
Yeah, I really hated having to use windower for the recast timer, but there was no way to keep up with provoke and shadow cast timers in the game that wasn't a headache =/
With provoke I created a macro that show me I had 15 sec left, when provoke was ready I gave myself the message provoke was ready, sometimes I also make it a party macro, so other people knew that it was ready.
I don't know if I could do that with other skills, I only found provoke important, and I never played ninja or thief in a group.
Originally posted by Sahjin
I'm all for combat speed being the same pace as 11. What I'd hate to see is the speed to select the skills you want to use as slow as 11. It was aggravating waiting on the ctrl and alt hotbars to pull down and then activate something. Windower helped, but you should not have to use 3rd party programs to make a game playable.
I never waited for the bars to appear, only when I forgot which number I had to use. I played FFXI on the PC, with only the keyboard. I tried a controller, but I didn't like it, keyboard only worked better for me.
Originally posted by svann
Originally posted by lynxie
Originally posted by Hyanmen
And let's not forget that shields, and later offhand weapons will get their own action bar. For those classes you're not simply inputting one command at time, but two.
I would imagine it would get quite hectic when you have to position yourself correctly, get monsters attention from other party members by using various skills and also keep their attention (one skill requires you to block an enemy's strike before you can trigger it) and also be able to block most of monster's attacks (so you have to look out for their attack patterns... and with a bit of speculation added in, monsters may start to see through your blocks and change their attack speed to counter your constant blocks as well).
There's also the Battle Regimen co-operative system which you should be able to participate in while doing all aforementioned things.
I don't think we'll get "bored" with this one.
EDIT: Speculation is no longer speculation: There are indeed some instant abilities that do not require action gauge to be full, however they require a little amount of TP (you get around 450 TP with one normal strike as Archer, the skill costs 200 TP).
Once you block/evade an attack, you can trigger the skill that works only when said occurrence happens. It has no cooldown, so you can use it always when you block or evade a hit. The system adds quite a bit of interaction to the combat.
"Used Slash (normal strike).
Blocked an attack during the slash animation, immediately used Phalanx (only usable after blocking).
Main-hand Action Gauge finished charging by then. Followed the Phalanx with Red Lotus/Slash/Circle Slash."
Three hits in a matter of few seconds.
Ah great! I like that.
But I am still a little afraid, in DaoC I also had some attacks that could only be done with block, evade, and parry, but I never used them, because it was hard to notice when such event happens and if it happens you quickly had to search for the right skill.
So I hope SE can make it in a better way.
The way vanguard handles this is with a sound cue. That seems to work.
I think that is a good idea.
Originally posted by Hyanmen
Originally posted by lynxie
Ah great! I like that.
But I am still a little afraid, in DaoC I also had some attacks that could only be done with block, evade, and parry, but I never used them, because it was hard to notice when such event happens and if it happens you quickly had to search for the right skill.
So I hope SE can make it in a better way.
Hm, depends on why was it hard to notice? Were the animations lacking?
That won't be the case with XIV, but if it was due to something else, can't answer that one.
To be honest I don't know anymore, it was somewhere in 2002.
I guess it was just easier to focus on abilities you could always use, maybe I should have given it more time to learn.
When it comes to combat, although speed is certainly a factor, I am chiefly concerned with one single element: player skill. Far too many MMOs have combat that revolves around gear and level. I love getting and using new gear as much as the next guy, but gear is almost always a matter of how much time you sink into a game, and if it is largely the deciding factor in combat, then the person who spends the most time on the game almost always wins. Yes, it takes some time to learn to use your character, work your way around the hotkeys, but that doesn't present a challenge for most gamers.
What I would love to see is more real-time strategic elements, and the outcomes of battles determined more by player skill than equipment and perhaps even level to some extent. Gear and level should certainly be huge factors, but genuine skill should have a bigger role to play. This is something that is terribly difficult to implement in an MMORPG, so I don't expect giant leaps to be made with FFXIV, but advances in this area would be great.
Ultimately, I think the ideal combat system is one that makes it so that gear and level create major gaps in strength between characters, which in turn creates smaller margins of error in the application of skillful character control during combat.
The speed of the first few levels may look slow or boring to people that are used to western MMOs, but it feels completely different when you are actually playing it rather than watching it. You aren't really thinking of speed, there are so many other things you need to be thinking about in order to accomplish the goal and take out the mob. There are so many things going on you won't notice it.
Id like to see a game where if you time your swing for the right moment then it increases the chances of a crit (increased damage). Not sure if that is doable with internet lag though.
Id like to see a game where if you time your swing for the right moment then it increases the chances of a crit (increased damage). Not sure if that is doable with internet lag though.
Well, that's exactly what they're doing in XIV, lol.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
For some reason I recall reading that you can spam things but they will be weaker than waiting to use them (letting some bar fill up under the ability) So maybe you can spam stuff if you're more into the twitch action?
After the action bar fills, you can wait further for power gauge to fill, which boosts your attacks. It's entirely optional.
The current speculation is that there are however some instant abilities that do not require you to wait for the cooldown, for example skills that you use after evading a monster's strike. Those kind of skills can only be used in such situations, however.
You won't be able to "spam" anything, at least before you get access to enough Haste skills and equipment.
This worries me. The game needs to be designed around PS3 controller users and PC keyboard users, and vice versa. If certain abilities are on a different "timer" or activated based on certain conditions, then the keyboard user will have a decided advantage.
For example, if you have your action guage full, and a reactive ability pops up, on a keyboard, you can use both abilities right after each other. Conversely, a controller user will have to use one ability and then scroll to the other ability on the action bar to use it. Unless there is a global cooldown that gives the controller player time to scroll so that he is not at a disadvante, there is going to be a problem with people playing on the PS3.
I prefer being on the couch, feet up, and plying on a big screen. If my character is going to be less effective and less efficient in using all of his abilities, then I'll have to focus on playing on the PC.
For some reason I recall reading that you can spam things but they will be weaker than waiting to use them (letting some bar fill up under the ability) So maybe you can spam stuff if you're more into the twitch action?
After the action bar fills, you can wait further for power gauge to fill, which boosts your attacks. It's entirely optional.
The current speculation is that there are however some instant abilities that do not require you to wait for the cooldown, for example skills that you use after evading a monster's strike. Those kind of skills can only be used in such situations, however.
You won't be able to "spam" anything, at least before you get access to enough Haste skills and equipment.
This worries me. The game needs to be designed around PS3 controller users and PC keyboard users, and vice versa. If certain abilities are on a different "timer" or activated based on certain conditions, then the keyboard user will have a decided advantage.
For example, if you have your action guage full, and a reactive ability pops up, on a keyboard, you can use both abilities right after each other. Conversely, a controller user will have to use one ability and then scroll to the other ability on the action bar to use it. Unless there is a global cooldown that gives the controller player time to scroll so that he is not at a disadvante, there is going to be a problem with people playing on the PS3.
I prefer being on the couch, feet up, and plying on a big screen. If my character is going to be less effective and less efficient in using all of his abilities, then I'll have to focus on playing on the PC.
We have no idea how the controller will actually control the new hotbar UI yet. It won't necessarily function the same way FFXI's macro interface did so the concern is a little premature. I expect the PS3 version of the game to have a custom UI built for the controller.
For some reason I recall reading that you can spam things but they will be weaker than waiting to use them (letting some bar fill up under the ability) So maybe you can spam stuff if you're more into the twitch action?
After the action bar fills, you can wait further for power gauge to fill, which boosts your attacks. It's entirely optional.
The current speculation is that there are however some instant abilities that do not require you to wait for the cooldown, for example skills that you use after evading a monster's strike. Those kind of skills can only be used in such situations, however.
You won't be able to "spam" anything, at least before you get access to enough Haste skills and equipment.
This worries me. The game needs to be designed around PS3 controller users and PC keyboard users, and vice versa. If certain abilities are on a different "timer" or activated based on certain conditions, then the keyboard user will have a decided advantage.
For example, if you have your action guage full, and a reactive ability pops up, on a keyboard, you can use both abilities right after each other. Conversely, a controller user will have to use one ability and then scroll to the other ability on the action bar to use it. Unless there is a global cooldown that gives the controller player time to scroll so that he is not at a disadvante, there is going to be a problem with people playing on the PS3.
I prefer being on the couch, feet up, and plying on a big screen. If my character is going to be less effective and less efficient in using all of his abilities, then I'll have to focus on playing on the PC.
We have no idea how the controller will actually control the new hotbar UI yet. It won't necessarily function the same way FFXI's macro interface did so the concern is a little premature. I expect the PS3 version of the game to have a custom UI built for the controller.
Too true, I suspect we'll see a Champions or DDO type build.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Even if it's a bit more clunky, it doesn't make a huge difference. It was the same way in XI, but you could have never noticed if someone was playing with a pad or keyboard, because even if there was a difference, it was unnoticeable.
It would be a problem if there was PvP, but there isn't.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Game Informer had a hands on this month and they described the action like a traditional Final Fantasy game (well like a few of them) with the ACTIVE TIME BATTLE "ATB" system in place.
So you have a little timer over your head and it'll fill, once filled you can choose an action to take and it'll happen. Then it'll fill again, with speed varied by certain factors.
For a MMO this sounds slow considering the direciton most were going. But I also think it sounds a bit more tactical than the usual spam all you got "more dots" style of combat.
But I hated XI for being slow...
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
They are already complaining in Japan about the combat.
Article taken from MMOsite.com
The Japanese Square Enix's online game Final Fantasy XIV is criticized by crowds of players in Japan for characterless combats. Players claim to be tired with the in-game combats that are not exciting and the characters performing unimpressive actions.
As the prequel Final Fantasy 11 features the same combat system, why do only the combats in Final Fantasy XIV make people bored?
Some players insist that when the Final Fantasy 11-styled combats are carried out in the more realistic Final Fantasy 14, the gap between the realistic graphics and the characterless combat system is broadened, thus making people feel rather bored.
According to the players, though they once wished to conduct uplifting combats in the company of gorgeous graphics, what they're feeling now is like playing the "rock-paper-scissor" game in the company of gorgeous graphics. What're more, during the interval between the attacks of the players and foes, both parties just maintain their different poses without performing any actions.
Many Japanese players express their dissatisfaction on related forums, e.g. "Really? So it's more unsatisfactory than Final Fantasy 11?", "I prefer glorious actions at the risk of longer intervals.", and "It disappoints me so much. How can I stand up with the boring gameplay?"
Though Final Fantasy XIV is still at the closed beta stage and will be improved in the coming days, it'll be so good if the developer can consider players' opinions and create an online game that more deserves the brand "Final Fantasy".
But I'd argue.. Isn't characterless combat sort of a Final Fantasy staple? You run across the screen, hit hit then run back. Or summon an animatio that takes forever to load.
I think they can make it flashier if that's what people want, but I'm wanting to see something tactical as well.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
They are already complaining in Japan about the combat.
Article taken from MMOsite.com
The Japanese Square Enix's online game Final Fantasy XIV is criticized by crowds of players in Japan for characterless combats. Players claim to be tired with the in-game combats that are not exciting and the characters performing unimpressive actions.
As the prequel Final Fantasy 11 features the same combat system, why do only the combats in Final Fantasy XIV make people bored?
Some players insist that when the Final Fantasy 11-styled combats are carried out in the more realistic Final Fantasy 14, the gap between the realistic graphics and the characterless combat system is broadened, thus making people feel rather bored.
According to the players, though they once wished to conduct uplifting combats in the company of gorgeous graphics, what they're feeling now is like playing the "rock-paper-scissor" game in the company of gorgeous graphics. What're more, during the interval between the attacks of the players and foes, both parties just maintain their different poses without performing any actions.
Many Japanese players express their dissatisfaction on related forums, e.g. "Really? So it's more unsatisfactory than Final Fantasy 11?", "I prefer glorious actions at the risk of longer intervals.", and "It disappoints me so much. How can I stand up with the boring gameplay?"
Though Final Fantasy XIV is still at the closed beta stage and will be improved in the coming days, it'll be so good if the developer can consider players' opinions and create an online game that more deserves the brand "Final Fantasy".
Whilst it's very interesting to hear the Japanese response to this I was under the impression that they were only able to reach Rank 10 in any class skill at the moment... If you compare that to level 10 in FFXI (or any MMO for that matter) of course the combat will be unremarkable. I've never played an MMO that felt particularly dramatic in the early levels. Most jobs in FFXI could do little more than auto-attack and use one weapon skill in the first 10 levels...
They are already complaining in Japan about the combat.
Article taken from MMOsite.com
The Japanese Square Enix's online game Final Fantasy XIV is criticized by crowds of players in Japan for characterless combats. Players claim to be tired with the in-game combats that are not exciting and the characters performing unimpressive actions.
As the prequel Final Fantasy 11 features the same combat system, why do only the combats in Final Fantasy XIV make people bored?
Some players insist that when the Final Fantasy 11-styled combats are carried out in the more realistic Final Fantasy 14, the gap between the realistic graphics and the characterless combat system is broadened, thus making people feel rather bored.
According to the players, though they once wished to conduct uplifting combats in the company of gorgeous graphics, what they're feeling now is like playing the "rock-paper-scissor" game in the company of gorgeous graphics. What're more, during the interval between the attacks of the players and foes, both parties just maintain their different poses without performing any actions.
Many Japanese players express their dissatisfaction on related forums, e.g. "Really? So it's more unsatisfactory than Final Fantasy 11?", "I prefer glorious actions at the risk of longer intervals.", and "It disappoints me so much. How can I stand up with the boring gameplay?"
Though Final Fantasy XIV is still at the closed beta stage and will be improved in the coming days, it'll be so good if the developer can consider players' opinions and create an online game that more deserves the brand "Final Fantasy".
Whilst it's very interesting to hear the Japanese response to this I was under the impression that they were only able to reach Rank 10 in any class skill at the moment... If you compare that to level 10 in FFXI (or any MMO for that matter) of course the combat will be unremarkable. I've never played an MMO that felt particularly dramatic in the early levels. Most jobs in FFXI could do little more than auto-attack and use one weapon skill in the first 10 levels...
doubtful, saying the first part of the game is in effect, just something you have to work through and not have fun in... won't go down all that well with a large proportion of players, and i have to say though, if they are saying this in Japan, where Square is far more successful and the players far more sympathetic to this genre, then, the likelyhood is that there is a very real issue here, and one that needs to be addressed very specifically, i dont think they can really ignore this or brush it off with the, its only alpha, excuses, and with complaints about their latest games excessive linearity, i'm wondering if maybe they've forgotten why the earlier games were so successful. Square have always pushed for more immersive gameplay.. anyway its not too late for them to rethink the combat mechanics, its still in alpha after all, and that means they can redesign. Hopefully the Japanese players will have gotten their message through.
doubtful, saying the first part of the game is in effect, just something you have to work through and not have fun in... won't go down all that well with a large proportion of players, and i have to say though, if they are saying this in Japan, where Square is far more successful and the players far more sympathetic to this genre, then, the likelyhood is that there is a very real issue here, and one that needs to be addressed very specifically, i dont think they can really ignore this or brush it off with the, its only alpha, excuses, and with complaints about their latest games excessive linearity, i'm wondering if maybe they've forgotten why the earlier games were so successful. Square have always pushed for more immersive gameplay.. anyway its not too late for them to rethink the combat mechanics, its still in alpha after all, and that means they can redesign. Hopefully the Japanese players will have gotten their message through.
I'm not dismissing their claims, there may very well be a genuine problem here. My issue is the wording, it talks about impressive actions and uplifting combat. The way I read that is as something that looks cool or dramatic in playing.
Considering that everyone in the alpha atm is a long-term FFXI vet could it not be possible that they're simply finding it hard to adjust back to lower level unimpressive combat after years at the cap in XI?
I understand that the lower levels in a game aren't just something to work trhough but the system is present in absolutely any RPG I've ever seen. At the start your character is weak with few skills, awful equipment and generally unimpressive combat ability. They need games to start like this so that it's a big contrast when you gain those abilities that truly are impressive at higher levels.
I'm not trying to say what's right or wrong, I'm just throwing the idea out there that the current alpha testers are all used to endgame combat mechanics and may have been expecting XIV to start out with something equally dramatic.
Whilst it's very interesting to hear the Japanese response to this I was under the impression that they were only able to reach Rank 10 in any class skill at the moment... If you compare that to level 10 in FFXI (or any MMO for that matter) of course the combat will be unremarkable. I've never played an MMO that felt particularly dramatic in the early levels. Most jobs in FFXI could do little more than auto-attack and use one weapon skill in the first 10 levels...
Ah is it 20? Hehe ok that gives them a little more room to experience solid gameplay for each class, though I still don't think many MMOs offer anything particularly dramatic or epic in the combat department at that early stage of the game.
It's just really hard to judge people's opinions when we can't actually play the game ourselves; I don't know whether to be worried or just ignore them. I suppose that's why there's an NDA.
I'm willing to see any other type of game play mechanic other than bars of buttons that are equivlent to the Rock'n'Sock'em Robots handles. From what I see I suppose leveling up just gives a player some opprotunity to bring some skills and spells over from other 'classes' to use while armed with some particular weapon.
Keep that true from level 1 to 20 to 99 whatever. I think it'd help people customize their play experience.
Maybe make the thief / monk / ninja / blue mage stuff nice and quick like FF typically does to help those impatient sorts get the feeling they want.
It truly is one of those 'wait and see' things for me. Kind of exciting.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
The global cooldown is different for every ability. If you, for example, use "Bloodbath" ability, the cooldown is almost nonexistant and you can attack again almost immediately.
On top of this, in the retail version different weapon types will most likely have different cooldowns as well.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
Hm, depends on why was it hard to notice? Were the animations lacking?
That won't be the case with XIV, but if it was due to something else, can't answer that one.
The way vanguard handles this is with a sound cue. That seems to work.
I'm all for combat speed being the same pace as 11. What I'd hate to see is the speed to select the skills you want to use as slow as 11. It was aggravating waiting on the ctrl and alt hotbars to pull down and then activate something. Windower helped, but you should not have to use 3rd party programs to make a game playable.
Yeah, I really hated having to use windower for the recast timer, but there was no way to keep up with provoke and shadow cast timers in the game that wasn't a headache =/
your dream has come true ;D
there's an action bar now and it is rather quick to select spells. all you need wait for (but you don't have to) is to charge the spell for potency.
With provoke I created a macro that show me I had 15 sec left, when provoke was ready I gave myself the message provoke was ready, sometimes I also make it a party macro, so other people knew that it was ready.
I don't know if I could do that with other skills, I only found provoke important, and I never played ninja or thief in a group.
I never waited for the bars to appear, only when I forgot which number I had to use. I played FFXI on the PC, with only the keyboard. I tried a controller, but I didn't like it, keyboard only worked better for me.
I think that is a good idea.
To be honest I don't know anymore, it was somewhere in 2002.
I guess it was just easier to focus on abilities you could always use, maybe I should have given it more time to learn.
When it comes to combat, although speed is certainly a factor, I am chiefly concerned with one single element: player skill. Far too many MMOs have combat that revolves around gear and level. I love getting and using new gear as much as the next guy, but gear is almost always a matter of how much time you sink into a game, and if it is largely the deciding factor in combat, then the person who spends the most time on the game almost always wins. Yes, it takes some time to learn to use your character, work your way around the hotkeys, but that doesn't present a challenge for most gamers.
What I would love to see is more real-time strategic elements, and the outcomes of battles determined more by player skill than equipment and perhaps even level to some extent. Gear and level should certainly be huge factors, but genuine skill should have a bigger role to play. This is something that is terribly difficult to implement in an MMORPG, so I don't expect giant leaps to be made with FFXIV, but advances in this area would be great.
Ultimately, I think the ideal combat system is one that makes it so that gear and level create major gaps in strength between characters, which in turn creates smaller margins of error in the application of skillful character control during combat.
The speed of the first few levels may look slow or boring to people that are used to western MMOs, but it feels completely different when you are actually playing it rather than watching it. You aren't really thinking of speed, there are so many other things you need to be thinking about in order to accomplish the goal and take out the mob. There are so many things going on you won't notice it.
As long as it's faster than XIs, wanted to like that game but it was so slow in so many ways.
I'm hoping the combat, even if it's paced, has a feeling of reason behind the timing. Spamming cool downs has gotten old.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Id like to see a game where if you time your swing for the right moment then it increases the chances of a crit (increased damage). Not sure if that is doable with internet lag though.
Well, that's exactly what they're doing in XIV, lol.
This worries me. The game needs to be designed around PS3 controller users and PC keyboard users, and vice versa. If certain abilities are on a different "timer" or activated based on certain conditions, then the keyboard user will have a decided advantage.
For example, if you have your action guage full, and a reactive ability pops up, on a keyboard, you can use both abilities right after each other. Conversely, a controller user will have to use one ability and then scroll to the other ability on the action bar to use it. Unless there is a global cooldown that gives the controller player time to scroll so that he is not at a disadvante, there is going to be a problem with people playing on the PS3.
I prefer being on the couch, feet up, and plying on a big screen. If my character is going to be less effective and less efficient in using all of his abilities, then I'll have to focus on playing on the PC.
We have no idea how the controller will actually control the new hotbar UI yet. It won't necessarily function the same way FFXI's macro interface did so the concern is a little premature. I expect the PS3 version of the game to have a custom UI built for the controller.
Too true, I suspect we'll see a Champions or DDO type build.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Even if it's a bit more clunky, it doesn't make a huge difference. It was the same way in XI, but you could have never noticed if someone was playing with a pad or keyboard, because even if there was a difference, it was unnoticeable.
It would be a problem if there was PvP, but there isn't.
Update on this topic BTW.
Game Informer had a hands on this month and they described the action like a traditional Final Fantasy game (well like a few of them) with the ACTIVE TIME BATTLE "ATB" system in place.
So you have a little timer over your head and it'll fill, once filled you can choose an action to take and it'll happen. Then it'll fill again, with speed varied by certain factors.
For a MMO this sounds slow considering the direciton most were going. But I also think it sounds a bit more tactical than the usual spam all you got "more dots" style of combat.
But I hated XI for being slow...
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
They are already complaining in Japan about the combat.
Article taken from MMOsite.com
The Japanese Square Enix's online game Final Fantasy XIV is criticized by crowds of players in Japan for characterless combats. Players claim to be tired with the in-game combats that are not exciting and the characters performing unimpressive actions.
As the prequel Final Fantasy 11 features the same combat system, why do only the combats in Final Fantasy XIV make people bored?
Some players insist that when the Final Fantasy 11-styled combats are carried out in the more realistic Final Fantasy 14, the gap between the realistic graphics and the characterless combat system is broadened, thus making people feel rather bored.
According to the players, though they once wished to conduct uplifting combats in the company of gorgeous graphics, what they're feeling now is like playing the "rock-paper-scissor" game in the company of gorgeous graphics. What're more, during the interval between the attacks of the players and foes, both parties just maintain their different poses without performing any actions.
Many Japanese players express their dissatisfaction on related forums, e.g. "Really? So it's more unsatisfactory than Final Fantasy 11?", "I prefer glorious actions at the risk of longer intervals.", and "It disappoints me so much. How can I stand up with the boring gameplay?"
Though Final Fantasy XIV is still at the closed beta stage and will be improved in the coming days, it'll be so good if the developer can consider players' opinions and create an online game that more deserves the brand "Final Fantasy".
But I'd argue.. Isn't characterless combat sort of a Final Fantasy staple? You run across the screen, hit hit then run back. Or summon an animatio that takes forever to load.
I think they can make it flashier if that's what people want, but I'm wanting to see something tactical as well.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
Whilst it's very interesting to hear the Japanese response to this I was under the impression that they were only able to reach Rank 10 in any class skill at the moment... If you compare that to level 10 in FFXI (or any MMO for that matter) of course the combat will be unremarkable. I've never played an MMO that felt particularly dramatic in the early levels. Most jobs in FFXI could do little more than auto-attack and use one weapon skill in the first 10 levels...
doubtful, saying the first part of the game is in effect, just something you have to work through and not have fun in... won't go down all that well with a large proportion of players, and i have to say though, if they are saying this in Japan, where Square is far more successful and the players far more sympathetic to this genre, then, the likelyhood is that there is a very real issue here, and one that needs to be addressed very specifically, i dont think they can really ignore this or brush it off with the, its only alpha, excuses, and with complaints about their latest games excessive linearity, i'm wondering if maybe they've forgotten why the earlier games were so successful. Square have always pushed for more immersive gameplay.. anyway its not too late for them to rethink the combat mechanics, its still in alpha after all, and that means they can redesign. Hopefully the Japanese players will have gotten their message through.
I'm not dismissing their claims, there may very well be a genuine problem here. My issue is the wording, it talks about impressive actions and uplifting combat. The way I read that is as something that looks cool or dramatic in playing.
Considering that everyone in the alpha atm is a long-term FFXI vet could it not be possible that they're simply finding it hard to adjust back to lower level unimpressive combat after years at the cap in XI?
I understand that the lower levels in a game aren't just something to work trhough but the system is present in absolutely any RPG I've ever seen. At the start your character is weak with few skills, awful equipment and generally unimpressive combat ability. They need games to start like this so that it's a big contrast when you gain those abilities that truly are impressive at higher levels.
I'm not trying to say what's right or wrong, I'm just throwing the idea out there that the current alpha testers are all used to endgame combat mechanics and may have been expecting XIV to start out with something equally dramatic.
Rank 20
Ah is it 20? Hehe ok that gives them a little more room to experience solid gameplay for each class, though I still don't think many MMOs offer anything particularly dramatic or epic in the combat department at that early stage of the game.
It's just really hard to judge people's opinions when we can't actually play the game ourselves; I don't know whether to be worried or just ignore them. I suppose that's why there's an NDA.
I'm willing to see any other type of game play mechanic other than bars of buttons that are equivlent to the Rock'n'Sock'em Robots handles. From what I see I suppose leveling up just gives a player some opprotunity to bring some skills and spells over from other 'classes' to use while armed with some particular weapon.
Keep that true from level 1 to 20 to 99 whatever. I think it'd help people customize their play experience.
Maybe make the thief / monk / ninja / blue mage stuff nice and quick like FF typically does to help those impatient sorts get the feeling they want.
It truly is one of those 'wait and see' things for me. Kind of exciting.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I want to clarify one thing:
The global cooldown is different for every ability. If you, for example, use "Bloodbath" ability, the cooldown is almost nonexistant and you can attack again almost immediately.
On top of this, in the retail version different weapon types will most likely have different cooldowns as well.