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Dark Age of Camelot: What if... Dark Age of Camelot 2
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Tenebrion – “I would give both of my testicles for DAoC 2.”
I would give my first born as well…hang on…that does not work.
Lets not forget the problems that DAoC had, and to large extent were overcome in WAR. Pretty much no instant death, limited stealth, crowd control that worked (in my option, certainly the Mez, stun, stun, didn't happen).
Taking what is good with WAR and putting that into DAoC2 would really work. Mirror classes put pay to the "realm" balance arguement. However three realms is a must. I think city invasion could work, but not a "moving" battle front - that pretty much killed the "ruddy hibs own our tower, lets go get it back!" feeling. Tomb of Knowledge, quest system, public quests, and maps, all worked pretty well.
To conclude, really what we want is a melding of the best bits of DAoC and WAR; now that would be a game worth a testicle or two (well someone elses testicle anyway, preferable a Hib!)
I played DAoC from release up to the archer patch (not sure which number it was). That turned me finally off as Mythic dd something no one in the archer community wanted. We asked for apples, but were given rotten oranges. The consensus was that DAoC had turned into a test lab for WAR.
Anyways, DAoC was my first MMO love, and will remain so. These days I play LotRO, but still wish for DAoC's combat system. The style system makes you pay attention during fights, unlike the 1-2-3-1-2-3 sequences I hit these days.
I would love to play DAoC again, if they opened a new server with just the original content. The useful addition such as housing, mounts, etc. can be added later. One of the problems with the expansions were that they added stuff which made balancing impossible. A hunter and an Infiltrator may have tough close fights, but if one has Shades of Mist up, or some other artifact ability or RA like Purge/Ignore Pain (not Infil though), the fight is one-sided. The new classes also added many problems that were hard to solve. Animists in keeps come to mind.
One of the big discussions revolve around CC. I would like to see changes, but not elimination. As a mid, it was a huge difference between running into a fight with the insta-CC up, or not. Reducing CC-timers would eliminate the need for Stoicm and other anti-CC solutions. Reduce mezzes to 15-20 seconds, enough for the mezzing side to have a slight advantage, but not enough to make the fight one-sided.
Baseline, I would love to see DAOC 2, or a stripped version of DAoC, but the key is in the implementation.
Ah yes, the 200v200 definetly would crash the server. I recall when the game first came out, we took about 200+ people (i was hibernia at the time) to raid a midgard keep. No one was max level yet, I think the highest person was 35, but mainly everyone else was 25 and below.
We got in, managed to get to the lord, but the server crashed before we could take him down. Following that, many hibbies petitioned to mythic that we should get the keep, but sadly we did not. (This was on Lancelot server btw)
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
I respectfull disagree. Mirroring classes is, well, lame... for a lack of a better word. Sure, there were issues with class balance, but much of the whining was either adressed or was just that, whining. If you get your ass kicked, it's easy to point fingers and say "because this class has this or that ability, it's overpowered!". Personally, I played all three realms (with and without setgroups) and the reality is that group or zerg balance was pretty ok, but player skill (and realm rank) factored in immensely. The class system was something that makes DAoC so unique, to this day.
I do agree that WAR got some things right, but classes isn't one of them. And the whole debate on CC has been done a few pages back. If you surround yourself with half-way decent players, there was no problem with CC imho. There were enough ways to counteract it. And I found CC in DAoC much more tolerable than in WAR with all the silly knockbacks and whatnot.
I couldn't agree more, on both points.
Mirroring classes is just awful, in my opinion. I played Mid for two years, then switched to Alb for two, and finally played Hib for a little less than a year. When friends/family that I played with wanted to switch realms, it was exciting for me. Playing a whole new realm with completely different classes, all of which had vastly different abilities. Sure that can make balancing a little more interesting, but honestly WAR has no less complaining about some other classes abilities than DAoC did. And those classes are mirrored pretty closely, for crying out loud.
Two of the things I liked least about WAR were the mirrored classes, and the complete lack of versatility of any classes in the game. Compared to DAoC, every class in WAR seemed boring and easy to master.
The CC complaints in this thread really suprise me. My only guess is a lot of people weren't around when things were better. Perhaps there is a parallel with people that quit because of ToA, and people that have bad memories of CC. I felt that post-TOA, CC was pretty well balanced. Mez was good for initial position, and as an interrupt mostly.
Man, that is a bullseye at 20 miles. Great article and if it happens, i will probably go back.
there are no innocents
ALL MMOs are now corrupted by today's market expectations. This is the biggest disconnect (between INVESTORS and Players) of all, the one that has resulted in mediocre MMOs the last few years.
I agree that what DAoC needs is a makeover... not a replacement. I seriously doubt EA is the megacorp to do it. I have never been convinced they know what they are doing with MMOs.
As long as Investors control the MMO world instead of the Devs, I have no faith in any attempt to repolish and upgrade any of the old school MMOs. The Investors will ruin the end result.
The worst thing to ever happen to MMOs was that Blizzard made a MMO that massively financially successful. Blizzards success brought in aa Army of Investor Suits that took over the MMO genre and MMOs I doubt will ever again be anything like what they once were or could have become.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I have played DAoC since US Closed Beta. I still play it but not the post ToA version. I play classic DAoC with Old Frontiers, no SI, no ToA, no artifacts, no MLs or CLs. Yep, its like stepping back into the DAoC of 2002. Its hosted on the Uthgard shard of a free portal.
If Mythic were to just run that version of DAoC they would have a LOT of players returning. If they updated the graphics and UI, so much the better.
MacDeath
It's not engine which kills your machine, it's graphics department
Crysis can easily get same and even more fps than DAoC, and still manage to get dynamic lights.
I'm waiting new Crysis so I can test if there is difference as this new engine might be even more optimized.
I heard also rumor that WAR engine was tested by Mythic in DAoC environment, but only as 3D engine .. not really as real client.
http://mharjula.blogspot.com/
Also Daoc RVR had open combat with teams of 8 that roamed looking for fights, and almost a sub culture within known as stealth wars, which was great for those who liked to play a more solo/duo pvp - I played both and it was the best pvp I have ever experienced. Wow pvp is just meankingless to me, like the op said - I never remember the names of those I kill in Wow, but I can still remember those from Daoc after all these years.
Hell no, i look at this like the music industry, some things are Evergreens a 1 time hit that was kinda unexpected and everything after that is just plain shit. WAR showed that Mythic can't repeat it so just let it be, or let someone else try it.
Oh the fantastic memories Daoc brings back, It was my very first MMO and I had nothing but fond times.. Er I think I was one of the few that even enjoyed TOA, though I didn't like NF.
Would welcome a Daoc 2 immensly, I made many friends playing it and all would come back for a second stint of Daoc action if fressh sequel was brought out
I'm actually not sure whether I want a DAoC 2 or a facelift for the current version. I think a DAoC 2 would allow them to re-invent the world and classes to make the game fresh again. I suspect that a mere graphics update wouldn't bring the game back to life for very long. Most players have been there and done that, so to speak. An 'origins' server may sound interesting, but since most old-timers have little to discover there, it would probably all come down to a race of which realm gets the most toons to 50 as soon as possible to dominate the frontiers. That could be fun for a while, but it wouldn't really bring back the game many of us remember.
Just make the game! It's so obvious that it's a perfect thing to create.
Realistic looking chain, plate, leather and cloths. The architecture from the different realms, the feel. Different music themes. Different classes for each realm. Keep everything that makes daoc , daoc.
Just do it for crying out...
Before someone else does. (With enough small changes to make it there own)
Count me in for DAOC2! I left a couple months after ToA. Loved the 3 realms - instant team. Loved the different realm abilities. Darkness Falls was a great addition to realm pride and RvR. Say No to Raiding. Say no to Stealthies 2 shotting heroes.
You can count me in fr DAOC II also. I did almost five years in the original and still check the DAoC Herald in hopes of a population explosion.
-=[ Maz ]=-
I'd support a DAoC 2 but I know it would just slowly start getting turned into shit by the devs listening to the "QQ forum babies" saying it is too hard to level, or nerf that they beat me in 1v1. That was why older games were better they barely listened to the criers. They fixed bugs and progressed with the story through THEIR eyes.
It would just turn into a WoW clone after 2 months of alpha/closed.
Ruining the game once more, players complained about the grind from 40-50 but it really wasn't that terrible, It was very rough but when you got to the happiness of 50 you were satisfied and enjoyed the great game laid infront of you.
Ok. About the PVE being too long to level. YOU ARE WRONG! DAOC was a MMORPG. Remember? When the game first come out and we leveled to 50 IT ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING TO DO IT! Most people did NOT have buffbots back then so you had to LEVEL IN A GROUP. The adventures I had meeting new peeps and killing mobs and getting cool drops was AWESOME. Each time you leveled you felt like you EARNED IT, not like it is now, just an after thought for rvr. Dark Age of Camelot was NEVER just about pvp early on.
DAOC, in the beginning, was about a good balance of a fine PVE adventure coupled with good PVP/RVR. But soon the kiddies only wanted rvr and it became the main focus. No longer did alot of peeps want to get to level 50 again with another character because it took so long. This sometimes hurt players looking for groups for pve because alot were rvring all the time. But Mythic fixed that. They added battlegrounds for every 10 levels so peeps could take a break from all that pveing and kick some buttox. The only problem here was that the lower level BGs were, imo, way to big. The level 10's through 30's should have been 1/4 of the size of the last BG at level 40.
One more thing about pve. Mythic did an OUTSTANDING JOB with the few people they had to provide pve content for all 3 realms, at least in the beginning with Shrouded Isles, arguably thier greatest and first expansion. That expansion had HUGE CONTENT for 3 realms and each new land , races, and classes, were DIFFERENT. Every expansion afterword got alot smaller each time but they still provided great content.
I want to make one thing perfectly clear, IF YOU DONT HAVE GREAT PVE CONTENT THAT MAKES the leveling of your character IMPORTANT and you dont give peeps the journey to level thier characters with PURPOSE and ADVENTURE, then DAOC 2 would be NOTHING MORE THAN A NICH PVP GAME. Not many people will play that. Period. See Warhammer.
To make a good DAOC 2 you need to great expansions, like Shrouded Isles, realistic graphics and not cartoony crap like World of Warcraft, the same basic 3 realm rvr system, AND BAN THE USE OF BUFFS OUTSIDE OF A GROUP,
then DAOC 2 would be succesful. Make it simple yet fun and give us both great pve and pvp adventures.
Charge only 9.99.
And do away with Minstrels.
End of Line.
I love DAoC and would gladly go back if a sequel was made. I like what Mythic did with DAoC and Warhammer minus some small complaints. If a DAoC sequel had a better interface, less grinding to level, and a way to make every class valuable in RvR, I'd be there in a flash. I also think that a way to promote grouping and guilding is to take a couple of game mechanics from Warhammer. Public quests were fun, fast, and rewarding with small groups coming together easily to complete the specific quest. This is a great way to meet other players around your level. The other game mechanic that I like from Warhammer is the guild tactics that can be unlocked from leveling up a guild. I think DAoC is due for a redo. Please Mythic, give us a reason to go back to the realms.
Scott Raymond Gray
Wow,
I'm blown away, if all these comments don't speak for themselves to the community DAOC had, I don't know what will. I'm in the same boat, first love, last love, lost interest in most games since then. Something great would have to happen to peak my interest once again.
LF
The biggest thing I loved about DAoC was that you could own an actual piece of the game. Your guild could capture, maintain, patrol, and upgrade the keeps. I used to spend hours on end, doing absolutely nothing but patrolling the walls of my guild's keep and talking in guild chat. Then all of a sudden 10 catapults and trebuchet (sp?) pop up and 50 tree-huggin hibbies are standing at the gate waiting to be slaughtered by the might of Midgard (I'm biased, sue me). The article has a great point about realm pride. To this day I still despise alb zergs and hibbies, and nothing will ever change that.
I really enjoyed the level of the original game. When you finally got to 46-48, you got a nice reward of being able to participate in frontiers and being effective. I liked the addition of battlegrounds, but still wished they had thier own gates, like the frontiers gates, to make it more realistic (not just teleporting into a realm keep). I still can't get the rush in any game I used to in DAoC after capturing a keep.
I would love to see a DAoC 2 get released with the following:
First and foremost give us actual collision detection. (We should no longer be able to run through our opponent.)
Remove /stick and /face.
Remove ToA, new frontiers or even Catacombs (I just didn't enjoy Catacombs all that much).
Remove all teleporting and zoning from the game for a seamless, travel experience. (All portal keeps will have a gate which you can walk through into the other realm.)
Remove instances altogether.
Add mounted combat.
Add realm invasion through attacking and captuing a portal keep. Allow invaders to go through into the invaded realm. Okay, so bear with me and read this through... So, let's say the Mids attack and capture one of the Alb portal keeps. If a Mid maintains peace while they are in Albion, then unless a Mid in Albion is attacked by an Alb and loses, he or she can stay in Albion for as long as they want to. If a Mid in Albion is attacked first by an Alb and the Mid wins, then the Mif can stay. If any Alb kills the Mid in Albion, the Mid is sent back to Midguard. If a Mid in Albion attacks an Alb first, they are flagged as a wanted enemy of Albion and a bounty is placed on their head. Any uber. Alb guards within the area of the Mid will attack the Mid on sight. An Alb player can defeat such a Mid and gain the bounty. The flag should remain on the player for one real world month's time, too. Any Mid who is in Albion and is not marked as a terrorist, should be able to do some special, repeatable quests in Albion in order to gain a small amount of realm points without killing the enemy.
Okay, those are my ideas so far...
Oh and one other thing, if a Mid is within the realm of Albion, then the Mid can only initiate an attack on an Alb who is 1 level under his level, equal to him or greater.
Oh yeah, and lastly, nazi-ban all radar users and buff-bots. Better yet, write some code on the server side that rejects any further connections originating from the same IP address as an existing connection and write some code on the client side that rejects any further connections beyond an existing connection to the Dark Age of Camelot server and also client side code which rejects any other Dark Age of Camelot client instances as well. (Can we say the more overkill on this kind of checking... the better?)
I miss DAoC. It was great. It would be great to see a comeback.
Massive MULTIplayer online games - should be just that. MULTI -player. I played WoW for about 6 months. There is no incentive to group. There is no incentive to interact with other players in a communal like faction. It's quite sterile as a community.
DAoC had that community feel.
Though, it was far from perfect. As a casual player, I was generally incapable of keeping up with the hardcore.
Good article.
"I have live my life by these nine simple words: It sounded like a good idea at the time."
--Livingston Taylor