Most people have come to accept that WoW's numbers are inflated, and there are a large number of other games that have more subscribers/concurrent users than WoW. They're mostly overseas games, or FTP games that wave around their number of signed accounts.
Also, the game is number 1, because those players aren't going anywhere. The vast majority of them don't know the MMORPG genre even exists. They're WoW players, not MMO players. They won't be lured away by games that are exactly like WoW, and companies need to realize this.
Also, 8 million of them are from China, and yes, for several months, NONE of those 8 million were paying or playing, but Blizzard didn't say anything.
Care to share your link to the 8 million subscribers in China?
It is so funny how in one breath you say the wow subscriber count is inflated and then turn around and say 8 million subscribers live in China. So which is it?
As for 11.5 million people not knowing the entire mmo genre exists, it must be true if other games are not getting multiple millions of players, but wait, you just said there are a large number of other games that have more subscribers/concurrent players than wow. Again, which is it?
Are those other games with massive populations larger than wow filled with people who have never played wow? Maybe they have never heard of wow or any other games in the genre and each group thinks their mmo is the only one being offered on the market. It isn't possible that any wow players actually went to play those other games is it?
That must be why the first person shooter genre is ruled by 1 game, because people only know about the one shooter game they ever played and it never occured to them there might be any other shooter style games they could try and enjoy. Oh wait...
Cataclysm will raise the population to about 20 mil subs because of the game imo i think wow is too addictive. Its like smoking......you can never stop. I think people need to quit the game and realize theres better mmo's that dont suck you in for 8 hours straight. I spent my 2 years in wow and will never go back. I have a life unlike certain people. I am a Coastguard and i have gotten married 2 weeks ago. They need to quit wow and experience life, which is 10x better.
$$ ----------Stevo--------- $$
Wow I must be super awesome then, because I quit smoking cigs after 10 years of smoking them and I quit WoW. But WoW was deffinately the easier of the two lol... But yeah you could be right that the subs could hit 20 mill, but then again, If a lot of the people that quit are like me then it wont happen.. This new expansion will not bring me back, its just the same old shit just different look.
Originally posted by Cecropia Originally posted by AvatarBlade Never understood why the exact numbers of a games subscribers would matter to a gamer, unless you are someone justifying your playing the game with the numbers, or you are one of the people that thinks, wow in this case, did something awfull to ruin your life and should burn and die
People care because WOW appears to have plateaued back in 2008. This means that we could see a major shift in the industry after Cataclysm (and the dust of unknown size that comes with it) settles. Anyone interested in this genre and posting on a forum like this is obviously going to care when the big kid on the block begins to let slip his control of the neighbourhood. Also all of us have played the game at one time or another, so I find it hard to understand how you don't get why this game's sub numbers aren't EXTREMELY relevant to people on this site or anyone interested in MMORPGs. So they show how much they care by posting out right lies like WoWs subscriber numbers are inflated and China has 8 million and NONE of them played for several months.
WOW happily announced every milestone as they hit them and stopped in 2008 at 11.5 mil because the subs havent exceeded that last milestone from over 2 years ago. If they hit 12 million they will post it I guarantee you. Will WOW hit 20 mil, no chance because after over 5 years there are far too many people bored with it.
WOW happily announced every milestone as they hit them and stopped in 2008 at 11.5 mil because the subs havent exceeded that last milestone from over 2 years ago. If they hit 12 million they will post it I guarantee you. Will WOW hit 20 mil, no chance because after over 5 years there are far too many people bored with it.
My money isn't on Blizzard doubling their subs with the Cataclysm expansion, no. My guess is that within 6 months after it's release, we're all going to be having the same conversation about how the population is not growing again except this time we won't have an incoming expansion to quench all the thirsty hopefuls.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Never understood why the exact numbers of a games subscribers would matter to a gamer, unless you are someone justifying your playing the game with the numbers, or you are one of the people that thinks, wow in this case, did something awfull to ruin your life and should burn and die
People care because WOW appears to have plateaued back in 2008. This means that we could see a major shift in the industry after Cataclysm (and the dust of unknown size that comes with it) settles.
Anyone interested in this genre and posting on a forum like this is obviously going to care when the big kid on the block begins to let slip his control of the neighbourhood. Also all of us have played the game at one time or another, so I find it hard to understand how you don't get why this game's sub numbers aren't EXTREMELY relevant to people on this site or anyone interested in MMORPGs.
So they show how much they care by posting out right lies like WoWs subscriber numbers are inflated and China has 8 million and NONE of them played for several months.
Originally posted by Garvon3 How is that an outright lie? http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6238638.html Its not my fault you missed major news. And yes, the breakdown last I checked was about 2 million in NA, 1.5 in Europe, the rest in Asia, 8 million in China inclusive.
WoW has been back up in China for a while now and it was well documented that when it was shut down many players joined Taiwan WoW. So many in fact that they shut down new account registration for a bit.
If you didnt know this then it not my fault you missed major news and are now spreading lies based on outdated information.
Lastly, Blizzard has not given out region subscription info in a while. Daffidoll asked for a link to the 8 million Chinese subscribers and you ignored that request. So, I'll be the second to ask for a link.
Amazing, the lengths some people will go to, to try and make it look like WoW is having problems.. it just reeks of desperation really, so sad.. no matter how you look at it.. no matter how the figures are juggled.. WoW is the biggest, most popular game on the internet... you can't include F2P btw, because if the F2P games tried to charge, they'd lose most of their players.. thats why their F2P.. so dumb arguments about games like dufos or whatever its called, are just plain silly.. WoW is in the position it is for a very good reason.. the game, has mass appeal, and it delivers, hence the high retention rates. If WoW wasnt popular or good, or FUN.. and btw.. the FUN part is the most important bit.. then people wouldnt play it.. they are paying to play it after all... and people always.. always vote with their wallets.. not that it matters.. imo Eve is a far better game.. but, alas, its a scifi game, and they only attract a small playerbase..
I play WoW, and will keep playing it as long as I am enjoying it. That's all that is important to me.
Yes, thats the most important and lucky you are . Too sad I cannot enjoy any game lately for more than few months, even WoW start to disguss me after first 2 months when I come back in every expac. It looks old gamers like me really need something new outside of personal achievements.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Blizzard tend to keep silent unless its good news they proberbly are waiting to see how Cataclysm performs then will release subscription numbers when there a boost albiet a temporary one . One of the reasons WoW does well is that its percieved to do well by younger players who want to be playing the most popular game so they can boast about what they ve done in it to thier school mates . (not the only reason though of course there are other factors) . I know theres a lot of WoW fans think the game will maintain this level of players forever but thats quite simply impossible to expect . Its done very well and still does very well but its bubble will burst eventually .
My instincts tell me that it proberbly is in a lull at the moment but will pick up around Cataclysms release . For there to be any meaningful loss in WoWs subscriptions there needs to be another very popular MMO to contend with it . (not saying a WoWkiller as there will be no such beast ) . Unfortunatly although there are decent games out there like Lord of the Rings Online all thus far don't have the same mass appeal WoW does . That could change in 2011 possibly with a whole host of hight profile titles being released . It only takes one company to produce a decent mmo that appeals to the average gamer then Warcraft could see a large drop in its player base in a very short time period . I think however its safe for 2010 at least .
Let's assume that there is an average of 1 80 per active player, Some have no 80s. Some have 8.. But for the sake of argument, let us use 1 as a safe number per account. Judging by said numbers, there would be 3 million accounts that have played at least 1 day this year on non-asian realms, as asian realms have unreliable statistics and generate less revenue per account. For the sake of argument we can also use 8m on asian realms, however those numbers are extremely inaccurate. So..half a million lost accounts this year, I'd guess. Makes sense seeing as WOW reached it peak when we were going after Arthas..most people really never could get to hate or love Deathwing. Arthas, on the other hand, is the Sephiroth of Warcraft. Some hate him, some love him. Everybody kills him regardless.
I truly get the feeling that cataclysm will not see a spike in numbers above 100k. It will still sell over 1 million copies outside asia, but it really won't be able to have them reach a new subscriber peak. Not without an intense manipulation of the numbers. Many people are leaving right after Cataclysm's pre-launch event, from what I have been told.
Edit..
Posted by Daffid....
You seem to play fast and loose with your facts my friend.
The last breakdown offered was when wow broke 10 million subscribers. Here are the figures released by blizzard.
North America @ 2.5 million
Europe @ 2 million
Asia @ 5.5 million (note: that says ASIA, not CHINA)
That is a 45/55 split between markets.
Here is a link so you can see where I get my information from.
Feel free to show your link to 8 million subscribers in China if you think that figure it accurate.
Okay, so maybe it was more like a 1.5 million loss. Surprised there.
I play WoW, and will keep playing it as long as I am enjoying it. That's all that is important to me.
And THAT, my friend, is a wise thing to do REGARDLESS of what game you're playing and enjoying. After all....you pay to play a game you enjoy. If you're enjoying it....that truly IS all that matters with it.
Cataclysm will raise the population to about 20 mil subs because of the game imo i think wow is too addictive. Its like smoking......you can never stop. I think people need to quit the game and realize theres better mmo's that dont suck you in for 8 hours straight. I spent my 2 years in wow and will never go back. I have a life unlike certain people. I am a Coastguard and i have gotten married 2 weeks ago. They need to quit wow and experience life, which is 10x better.
$$ ----------Stevo--------- $$
It very well may, seeing as Cata is like making a whole new WOW world. Old players especially that are un-subed will be back most anyway to see the changes. New subs for their friends wanting to play with them.
I play WoW, and will keep playing it as long as I am enjoying it. That's all that is important to me.
And THAT, my friend, is a wise thing to do REGARDLESS of what game you're playing and enjoying. After all....you pay to play a game you enjoy. If you're enjoying it....that truly IS all that matters with it.
The cat speaks the truth.
But as soon as you get to that point where the game is still fun, but you sense something amiss on the horizon, feel free to use these forums!
Doubt it does but you will never hear Blizzard say it is losing numbers because then people may not want to play knowing it is going down hill. WoW had a great run and did alot of good for gamers but many many players are past the WoW stage now and want something different and better.
Doubt it does but you will never hear Blizzard say it is losing numbers because then people may not want to play knowing it is going down hill. WoW had a great run and did alot of good for gamers but many many players are past the WoW stage now and want something different and better.
Aye, no company ever posts their numbers once they start to drop, hence why Blizzard never gave us numbers since 2008.
If Cataclysm brings those numbers up to say 12m+ then I bet Blizz will post. If not they wont.
What I would like to see is some enforcement of the gaming industry where if the company wants to boast subscription numbers they have to do so based on a breakdown of region and payment models.
For example if Blizzard boasts 10 million subscriptions, they would have to show:
4 million subscriptions using the monthly $15US/(insert European equiv here) scheme
6 million subscriptions using the Hourly allotment scheme (used a lot in Asia, especially in China)
and then:
2.5 million subscriptions from NA (US/CA)
1.5 million subscriptions from EU
etc
as well as point out that the subscriptions are based on concurrent accounts that have been active at least say 3 or more months a year.
Because as it stands right now, any company can pretty much just make up numbers and slap them on a box to make the game look more popular than it really is. And then there are people like me who really dont care if a game is a smash hit in Asia and only really want to know if the population in my region is healthy enough to support.
So basically either give me transparency or don't bother showing me the numbers.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I've been playing AOC and I think it's as good as WoW at this point. But I'm not a raider and I don't get off on PVP so I can't really compare those areas.
I think it's funny that everyone gets excited if WoW loses about a million subs or stays at 11 million, where the next closest MMO is only about a fraction of that number.
The game is #1. It is now and will be after Cataclsym. Accept it and move on.
Most people have come to accept that WoW's numbers are inflated, and there are a large number of other games that have more subscribers/concurrent users than WoW. They're mostly overseas games, or FTP games that wave around their number of signed accounts.
Also, the game is number 1, because those players aren't going anywhere. The vast majority of them don't know the MMORPG genre even exists. They're WoW players, not MMO players. They won't be lured away by games that are exactly like WoW, and companies need to realize this.
Also, 8 million of them are from China, and yes, for several months, NONE of those 8 million were paying or playing, but Blizzard didn't say anything.
You are more right than some would want you to be. In my time in WOW there was an older lady playing who told me she thought WOW was unique and was amazed at how many MMO's there actually are. Her daughter got her playing and it wasnt only her first MMO it was her second game, she told me she played Yoshi when her kids were small.
WoW is probly going back and fourth from 9mil to 10mil subs Cata will burst about 14-15Mil subs people will get bored and it will go back to around 10-11 then 9-10 the next xpac will hit and it will happen again.. Blizzard is extremly good at keeping there games alive I mean look at SC or Diablo2 alot of people still play.
WoW is probly going back and fourth from 9mil to 10mil subs Cata will burst about 14-15Mil subs people will get bored and it will go back to around 10-11 then 9-10 the next xpac will hit and it will happen again.. Blizzard is extremly good at keeping there games alive I mean look at SC or Diablo2 alot of people still play.
You mean 3-4 million SUBSCRIPTIONS, 0-6m asian hourly payment models, do you not?
Comments
Care to share your link to the 8 million subscribers in China?
It is so funny how in one breath you say the wow subscriber count is inflated and then turn around and say 8 million subscribers live in China. So which is it?
As for 11.5 million people not knowing the entire mmo genre exists, it must be true if other games are not getting multiple millions of players, but wait, you just said there are a large number of other games that have more subscribers/concurrent players than wow. Again, which is it?
Are those other games with massive populations larger than wow filled with people who have never played wow? Maybe they have never heard of wow or any other games in the genre and each group thinks their mmo is the only one being offered on the market. It isn't possible that any wow players actually went to play those other games is it?
That must be why the first person shooter genre is ruled by 1 game, because people only know about the one shooter game they ever played and it never occured to them there might be any other shooter style games they could try and enjoy. Oh wait...
Wow I must be super awesome then, because I quit smoking cigs after 10 years of smoking them and I quit WoW. But WoW was deffinately the easier of the two lol... But yeah you could be right that the subs could hit 20 mill, but then again, If a lot of the people that quit are like me then it wont happen.. This new expansion will not bring me back, its just the same old shit just different look.
Anyone interested in this genre and posting on a forum like this is obviously going to care when the big kid on the block begins to let slip his control of the neighbourhood. Also all of us have played the game at one time or another, so I find it hard to understand how you don't get why this game's sub numbers aren't EXTREMELY relevant to people on this site or anyone interested in MMORPGs.
So they show how much they care by posting out right lies like WoWs subscriber numbers are inflated and China has 8 million and NONE of them played for several months.
WOW happily announced every milestone as they hit them and stopped in 2008 at 11.5 mil because the subs havent exceeded that last milestone from over 2 years ago. If they hit 12 million they will post it I guarantee you. Will WOW hit 20 mil, no chance because after over 5 years there are far too many people bored with it.
My money isn't on Blizzard doubling their subs with the Cataclysm expansion, no. My guess is that within 6 months after it's release, we're all going to be having the same conversation about how the population is not growing again except this time we won't have an incoming expansion to quench all the thirsty hopefuls.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
How is that an outright lie?
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6238638.html
Its not my fault you missed major news.
And yes, the breakdown last I checked was about 2 million in NA, 1.5 in Europe, the rest in Asia, 8 million in China inclusive.
If you didnt know this then it not my fault you missed major news and are now spreading lies based on outdated information.
Lastly, Blizzard has not given out region subscription info in a while. Daffidoll asked for a link to the 8 million Chinese subscribers and you ignored that request. So, I'll be the second to ask for a link.
Put up a link or shut up.
You seem to play fast and loose with your facts my friend.
The last breakdown offered was when wow broke 10 million subscribers. Here are the figures released by blizzard.
North America @ 2.5 million
Europe @ 2 million
Asia @ 5.5 million (note: that says ASIA, not CHINA)
That is a 45/55 split between markets.
Here is a link so you can see where I get my information from.
Feel free to show your link to 8 million subscribers in China if you think that figure it accurate.
I play WoW, and will keep playing it as long as I am enjoying it. That's all that is important to me.
Amazing, the lengths some people will go to, to try and make it look like WoW is having problems.. it just reeks of desperation really, so sad.. no matter how you look at it.. no matter how the figures are juggled.. WoW is the biggest, most popular game on the internet... you can't include F2P btw, because if the F2P games tried to charge, they'd lose most of their players.. thats why their F2P.. so dumb arguments about games like dufos or whatever its called, are just plain silly.. WoW is in the position it is for a very good reason.. the game, has mass appeal, and it delivers, hence the high retention rates. If WoW wasnt popular or good, or FUN.. and btw.. the FUN part is the most important bit.. then people wouldnt play it.. they are paying to play it after all... and people always.. always vote with their wallets.. not that it matters.. imo Eve is a far better game.. but, alas, its a scifi game, and they only attract a small playerbase..
Yes, thats the most important and lucky you are . Too sad I cannot enjoy any game lately for more than few months, even WoW start to disguss me after first 2 months when I come back in every expac. It looks old gamers like me really need something new outside of personal achievements.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Blizzard tend to keep silent unless its good news they proberbly are waiting to see how Cataclysm performs then will release subscription numbers when there a boost albiet a temporary one . One of the reasons WoW does well is that its percieved to do well by younger players who want to be playing the most popular game so they can boast about what they ve done in it to thier school mates . (not the only reason though of course there are other factors) . I know theres a lot of WoW fans think the game will maintain this level of players forever but thats quite simply impossible to expect . Its done very well and still does very well but its bubble will burst eventually .
My instincts tell me that it proberbly is in a lull at the moment but will pick up around Cataclysms release . For there to be any meaningful loss in WoWs subscriptions there needs to be another very popular MMO to contend with it . (not saying a WoWkiller as there will be no such beast ) . Unfortunatly although there are decent games out there like Lord of the Rings Online all thus far don't have the same mass appeal WoW does . That could change in 2011 possibly with a whole host of hight profile titles being released . It only takes one company to produce a decent mmo that appeals to the average gamer then Warcraft could see a large drop in its player base in a very short time period . I think however its safe for 2010 at least .
WoW could have 60 million subs and I wouldn't play it.
I don't get why people get so caught up on sub numbers.
As long as a game has atleast one server with a solid population its fine.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Amen to that . I play Lotro in europe on a server thats very busy most of the time . Nicer communitys in other games too .
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php?serverid=-1&factionid=-1&minlevel=80&maxlevel=80&servertypeid=-1
Let's assume that there is an average of 1 80 per active player, Some have no 80s. Some have 8.. But for the sake of argument, let us use 1 as a safe number per account. Judging by said numbers, there would be 3 million accounts that have played at least 1 day this year on non-asian realms, as asian realms have unreliable statistics and generate less revenue per account. For the sake of argument we can also use 8m on asian realms, however those numbers are extremely inaccurate. So..half a million lost accounts this year, I'd guess. Makes sense seeing as WOW reached it peak when we were going after Arthas..most people really never could get to hate or love Deathwing. Arthas, on the other hand, is the Sephiroth of Warcraft. Some hate him, some love him. Everybody kills him regardless.
I truly get the feeling that cataclysm will not see a spike in numbers above 100k. It will still sell over 1 million copies outside asia, but it really won't be able to have them reach a new subscriber peak. Not without an intense manipulation of the numbers. Many people are leaving right after Cataclysm's pre-launch event, from what I have been told.
Edit..
Posted by Daffid....
You seem to play fast and loose with your facts my friend.
The last breakdown offered was when wow broke 10 million subscribers. Here are the figures released by blizzard.
North America @ 2.5 million
Europe @ 2 million
Asia @ 5.5 million (note: that says ASIA, not CHINA)
That is a 45/55 split between markets.
Here is a link so you can see where I get my information from.
Feel free to show your link to 8 million subscribers in China if you think that figure it accurate.
Okay, so maybe it was more like a 1.5 million loss. Surprised there.
And THAT, my friend, is a wise thing to do REGARDLESS of what game you're playing and enjoying. After all....you pay to play a game you enjoy. If you're enjoying it....that truly IS all that matters with it.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
It very well may, seeing as Cata is like making a whole new WOW world. Old players especially that are un-subed will be back most anyway to see the changes. New subs for their friends wanting to play with them.
The cat speaks the truth.
But as soon as you get to that point where the game is still fun, but you sense something amiss on the horizon, feel free to use these forums!
Doubt it does but you will never hear Blizzard say it is losing numbers because then people may not want to play knowing it is going down hill. WoW had a great run and did alot of good for gamers but many many players are past the WoW stage now and want something different and better.
Aye, no company ever posts their numbers once they start to drop, hence why Blizzard never gave us numbers since 2008.
If Cataclysm brings those numbers up to say 12m+ then I bet Blizz will post. If not they wont.
What I would like to see is some enforcement of the gaming industry where if the company wants to boast subscription numbers they have to do so based on a breakdown of region and payment models.
For example if Blizzard boasts 10 million subscriptions, they would have to show:
4 million subscriptions using the monthly $15US/(insert European equiv here) scheme
6 million subscriptions using the Hourly allotment scheme (used a lot in Asia, especially in China)
and then:
2.5 million subscriptions from NA (US/CA)
1.5 million subscriptions from EU
etc
as well as point out that the subscriptions are based on concurrent accounts that have been active at least say 3 or more months a year.
Because as it stands right now, any company can pretty much just make up numbers and slap them on a box to make the game look more popular than it really is. And then there are people like me who really dont care if a game is a smash hit in Asia and only really want to know if the population in my region is healthy enough to support.
So basically either give me transparency or don't bother showing me the numbers.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I've been playing AOC and I think it's as good as WoW at this point. But I'm not a raider and I don't get off on PVP so I can't really compare those areas.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
You are more right than some would want you to be. In my time in WOW there was an older lady playing who told me she thought WOW was unique and was amazed at how many MMO's there actually are. Her daughter got her playing and it wasnt only her first MMO it was her second game, she told me she played Yoshi when her kids were small.
WoW is probly going back and fourth from 9mil to 10mil subs Cata will burst about 14-15Mil subs people will get bored and it will go back to around 10-11 then 9-10 the next xpac will hit and it will happen again.. Blizzard is extremly good at keeping there games alive I mean look at SC or Diablo2 alot of people still play.
You mean 3-4 million SUBSCRIPTIONS, 0-6m asian hourly payment models, do you not?
If you want to nit pick I can just say players 9-10mil players...