No MMO will fall pray to SWTOR because in my opinion SWTOR will just move further away from the massive aspect and go further the way of instanced small 4 player groups in closed off sections of the world. People play the small indie games because they like what they have to offer. Will they go and try SWTOR? Of course. Will they stay? I highly doubt it.
I don't think SWTOR will be the holy grail you make it sound to be, no matter how you try.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Current mmo´s will see a drop in players. Mmmorpg.coms community will be screaming "A m g failz failz lulz" for a month. Then things will slowly go back as it was.
Just like how it went with most of of the AAA post relases.
- Voice driven: Not needed. It only interrupts play and while "fantastic" in its first 20 quests, it becomes a pain. The vast majority of players become uninterested and will find the function hampering their mmo play if used with every NPC interaction.
- Companions: A motivation to solo play. NPC's in the role of players is a death sentence to easy grouping. It was once a nice twist to counter the dull solo leveling in GW. Cryptic said player crew members couldn't be used in ST. Since the new LFG tool form Blizzard we now know it is the tool that defines mulitplayer possibilities in modern MMo's, no longer the unwilling players.
Players need to be motivated to group and the tools need to be easy and automated as much as possible. Companions used as NPC's - will be the a huge trap to grouping.
- Solo instances: you heard that right: solo instances. Your character is isolated from the world around him. Consequences? No whispers, no surroundings: the player is playing an instance solo. On line solo adventure is getting a new meaning.
- Bioware has zero expertise in PvP, on line player combat mechanics or e-sports. In viewing how much resources are being used to have the voice acting and solo story telling, one may wonder how they are going to make up for lack of this much needed expertise in pvp and ... class balance.
- Liniair games will get a new meaning in SW. Those who said Wow was liniair should take a good look at the single lined up story telling found in SW. The story will need to be followed step by step. No escaping. Oh here and there they could add a 2 or 3 choice step, but don't get your hopes too high: you will be guided by the nose - by hopping from solo instance through solo instance - no doubt.
- Even now, Bioware developers says they are" discussing" and "looking into" the use of "professions". That's the typical attitude these days: less than 8 months away from publisment and one of the most important aspects of an on line world is not even fixed in its final stages: the economy. War, AoC, ST didn't have it in place until the very last minute: we' seen the results.
For the above reasons SW on line looks to be a huge much inflated MMO balloon, but I don't see it attain its scheduled 1 million subscriptions after 3 months.
Since the game will be based on PVE content (much related to solo content and specific solo class progression), we will see a game that will struggle to add content on that basis. It simply will be too costly to produce this "solo" progression to satisfy the PVE hunger of players in the long term.
SW will be a flat 2 dimensional play experience: It could be an excellent on line adventure game: a new experience for players seeking an adventure game with an added auction house: a kind of SF themed Dragon Age on line for solo players.
As such it is something new. But enough to warrant 15 dollar subscriptions after 3 months? I doubt it.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
And that pretty much sums up the majority of my thoughts as well. With the exception of the storyline assoicated with the player's character, everything seems to be a been there done that type of feeling. The companions is another nail driven into the coffin for me. If they want to make a game soloable then make it soloable, not adding Heros or Companions that take the place of groups. This was one of the problems I had with Guild Wars, which is solved in GW2. While a game might swing a bit either way in the whole solo vrs group play, Companions push it towards solo( the severity all depends on the strength of the NPC Companions).
Bioware isnt know for making dynamic storylines, they are great plots and riveting tales. But it is a point A to B, then choosing if you want to do C or D or both then onto E. And the whole choosing republic or sith, then wheter you are light aligned or dark aligned based on your conversation choices makes little sense to me.
SWTOR will do great I am sure, Bioware is great at polishing and refinement which will attract plenty of players. And a majority will keep playing becuase its StarWars and cuase it is BIoware. Not sure if they will retain their subscription goal but I dont see this MMO pushing any others out of the way becuase frankly it isnt anything new under the hood. And people such as myself like different things.
I think most of TORs subscription base will come from the following:
People who are currently playing themepark MMOs.
People who previously tired of MMOs due to the lack of quality RPG elements.Non-MMO playing Star Wars fans.Non-MMO playing Bioware fans.
I don't think that the smaller, indie MMOs will be badly hit. They're designed to support niche preferences and TOR is heavily marketed towards the mainstream audience. Current players will probably come from the likes of WoW, Aion, WAR, AoC and LOTRO.
I agree with this post. The draw from other games will be more relative to those that have played previous BioWare games and enjoyed them. This may have a good amount of attraction to the average MMO player, but BioWare is swinging for the fences on this one. They are shooting for the MMO crowd as well as the BioWare single player crowd. This is similar to what Blizzard did by targeting non-MMO players as well as MMO players. We may very well see a good amount of players that have never played an MMO before try this game.
Bioware isnt know for making dynamic storylines, they are great plots and riveting tales. But it is a point A to B, then choosing if you want to do C or D or both then onto E. And the whole choosing republic or sith, then wheter you are light aligned or dark aligned based on your conversation choices makes little sense to me.
Thats about as dynamic a storyline as you'll find in any genre. Its as dynamic as what GW2 is offering. The only thing more dynamic would be creating your own story from scratch (a sandbox style game) and that takes imagination, not programming.
Bioware has zero expertise in PvP, on line player combat mechanics or e-sports. In viewing how much resources are being used to have the voice acting and solo story telling, one may wonder how they are going to make up for lack of this much needed expertise in pvp and ... class balance.
BioWare has a team of developers from SOE and Mythic, as well as some multiplayer games such as Neverwinter Nights, just to name a few ways they have expertise in PvP.
Solo instances: you heard that right: solo instances. Your character is isolated from the world around him. Consequences? No whispers, no surroundings: the player is playing an instance solo. On line solo adventure is getting a new meaning.
If you're talking about flashpoints, those are very small parts of the game that are cinematic. In the actual instanced missions its been shown that you still have a chat bar to communicate with the outside world. Flashpoints are available for both groups and single players. Instanced content is approximately 10% of the game.
Not to mention that every single class has a separate storyline and no content is shared between two classes in the class story. Gameplay and choices actually affect the world around you and other players can see the changes. Combat was built with PvP in mind
And as for the story, you can level and gain alignment without the story if you choose to go that route. You get more XP for finishing missions then you do killing random spawns, but its up to you how you want to play the game. You can go through the whole game grouped by level one and do nothing but group the whole way if you want. So if you'd rather grind then go through the missions you could do that too.
Most of what bobbadud said is either opinion a half truth or incorrect. I can see how so many misconceptions can get thrown around on these forums.
I predict what I'll call the "Aion Effect" for TOR. People will storm the game like crazy at first. Soon, many will finally feel the pain of their "I hope it's like SWG pre NGE" bubble bursting, while others will shrug it off because it'll be highly instanced to facilitate its storylines. After a month or 3, the numbers will fall rapidly before levelling off to a core group of players who like it as-is. Slowly, the numbers will go back up to, hopefully for Bioware, what will be financially sustainable. Will it kill WoW (and you know that's the million dollar question)? No.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Ill start of by saying I'm not a WoW fan. It's funny how people want to see World of Warcraft owned by another MMO. World of Warcraft has beaten down every single MMO to date. Even if an MMO comes out that puts a dent in WoW's subs, it's ok, Blizzard has made their money on WoW 100 times over. The old republic online will be lucky to even see a quarter of WoW's subs, far less in my mind. Just because you are a hardcore star wars fan, does not mean that the old republic will be the king of MMO's. I have a feeling that Blizzards next MMO they are working on atm is going to be king of the hill for the next ten years.
Ill start of by saying I'm not a WoW fan. It's funny how people want to see World of Warcraft owned by another MMO. World of Warcraft has beaten down every single MMO to date. Even if an MMO comes out that puts a dent in WoW's subs, it's ok, Blizzard has made their money on WoW 100 times over. The old republic online will be lucky to even see a quarter of WoW's subs, far less in my mind. Just because you are a hardcore star wars fan, does not mean that the old republic will be the king of MMO's. I have a feeling that Blizzards next MMO they are working on atm is going to be king of the hill for the next ten years.
Blizzard had a ton of goodwill going for them when WoW released. That has changed.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Ill start of by saying I'm not a WoW fan. It's funny how people want to see World of Warcraft owned by another MMO. World of Warcraft has beaten down every single MMO to date. Even if an MMO comes out that puts a dent in WoW's subs, it's ok, Blizzard has made their money on WoW 100 times over. The old republic online will be lucky to even see a quarter of WoW's subs, far less in my mind. Just because you are a hardcore star wars fan, does not mean that the old republic will be the king of MMO's. I have a feeling that Blizzards next MMO they are working on atm is going to be king of the hill for the next ten years.
To be honest I would rather have an MMO with a decent sized population than to have an MMO with a sub base on par with WoW. The reason for this is I feel the games that do between 100k and 500k players have a more dedicated playerbase which makes it easier for devs to zero in on what needs to be done within the game to keep those players happy.
When you get a game with a base the size of WoW, the devs end up catering more and more to the vocal minority, thus mechanics get more simplified and the games get easier. And to keep those insane amount of players the devs end up bending more and more. We all have seen what has happened in WoW to keep the masses happy, and while a few will sing its praises many know that the game is getting further and further from being an MMORPG and closer to a game akin to Diablo.
So yeah, give me a good game with a decently average subscription base over a behemoth 10+mil base game anyday. After all, I have yet to see an MMO with a decent population suddenly get canceled, save for those games that have anything to do with NCSoft (Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa) or MMOs who were being developed with Microsoft (Save for AC).
As for Blizzards next MMO being king of the hill? Good for it. It can have as many subscriptions as possible, but after playing WoW since launch I pretty much know how the game will be handled, hence not really being interested in it. Sure it will be a highly polished game, but I have a feeling it will be aimed more toward a simpler crowd of gamers.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Some people will still just like a fantasy setting. And they might try other MMO's in the fantasy setting
Some people will like a Sci-Fi setting. And might try other MMO's in the Sci-Fi setting
Some people like a realistic setting.
Obviously some people just play anything with not prefered preverence what so ever.
Aslong as what ever setting is fun for the player it will be played.
Myself do not see me leaving Fallen Earth for example for any of the upcoming MMORPG's, but if I leave the game it would most likely be because I have excausted the game, hardly ever do I actually leave a game I really enjoy to just try something else. I will most likely be trying some of the upcoming MMORPG's and time might change the way I currently feel, but it's far to early to speculate on that.
SWG didn’t shut any games down, so why would TOR? If any suffer, it would be SWG. Star Wars is an existing IP, those that were new to mmo’s with SWG and left, either filtered into like EVE or went away and will probably come back for TOR. Those that stayed with SWG will probably move to TOR. And what may happen is those coming from other games may keep those accounts active for a time, at least some of them depending on how strong their community connections are with those games.
SWG didn’t shut any games down, so why would TOR? If any suffer, it would be SWG. Star Wars is an existing IP, those that were new to mmo’s with SWG and left, either filtered into like EVE or went away and will probably come back for TOR. Those that stayed with SWG will probably move to TOR.
Why would they?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To be honest I would rather have an MMO with a decent sized population than to have an MMO with a sub base on par with WoW. The reason for this is I feel the games that do between 100k and 500k players have a more dedicated playerbase which makes it easier for devs to zero in on what needs to be done within the game to keep those players happy.
When you get a game with a base the size of WoW, the devs end up catering more and more to the vocal minority, thus mechanics get more simplified and the games get easier.
WoW is not being dumbed down for the minority - vocal or not.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
SWG post NGE = A#1 Fanboys. They know it sucks, but nothing else Star Wars out there other than muds, browser games and the single player stuff. Some actually like it of course, NGE+, but TOR isn't going to need to be all that great to pull most of them especially since it's Jedi-centric as NGE went.
SWG post NGE = A#1 Fanboys. They know it sucks, but nothing else Star Wars out there other than muds, browser games and the single player stuff. Some actually like it of course, NGE+, but TOR isn't going to need to be all that great to pull most of them especially since it's Jedi-centric as NGE went.
TOR and SWG cover two very different eras in the IP. SWG is sand box, while there has been no suggestion of such gameplay in TOR. I think those two reasons are enough to keep most SWG players from switching.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
SWTOR won't shut down anything because it just really isn't that impressive at the moment. Visually TERA and GW2 look far better and even when it comes to design GW2 appears to be more interesting. SWTOR should be a great game but I don't see it leaving some massive footprint in the industry.
Massive budget or not SWTOR is on the path of your average MMO. (and nothing is wrong with average)
SWTOR won't shut down anything because it just really isn't that impressive at the moment. Visually TERA and GW2 look far better and even when it comes to design GW2 appears to be more interesting. SWTOR should be a great game but I don't see it leaving some massive footprint in the industry.
Massive budget or not SWTOR is on the path of your average MMO. (and nothing is wrong with average)
You say it's average because you've played other MMOs. What will a huge Star Wars fan who has never played MMOs before think of it? Especially if they've played one of BioWare's RPGs in the past? Do you think they've heard of GW or GW2? TERA? What the hell is that? Even if TOR isn't the next best thing since sliced bread and others are better, they'll still win in the subs department. I predict TOR will replace WoW as the reigning gateway MMO, unless it's a completely unacceptable pile of crap (which it won't be).
OP - I don't think it'll gobble up smaller MMOs. MMOs seem to be notoriously hard to kill. Some of them have only a few thousand subs, yet they're still open. If a AAA MMO fails, it's more likely to close because it costs more to develop and maintain. But plenty of smaller MMOs aren't AAA, so I think they'll be fine. TOR will definitely rock the boat, especially WoW's HUGEMOFO-OCEANLINEROFADDICTION, but a good part of its subs will come from MMO-virgin Star Wars fans. And most of them will eat it right up.
SWG post NGE = A#1 Fanboys. They know it sucks, but nothing else Star Wars out there other than muds, browser games and the single player stuff. Some actually like it of course, NGE+, but TOR isn't going to need to be all that great to pull most of them especially since it's Jedi-centric as NGE went.
TOR and SWG cover two very different eras in the IP. SWG is sand box, while there has been no suggestion of such gameplay in TOR. I think those two reasons are enough to keep most SWG players from switching.
If that were so, I would have had at least one vote for SWG-NGE+ on that end-game-content thread I ran here last week. Out of an entire 8 votes, 7 were for pre-cu, one was for pre-nge, and zero for it's current state. If SWG was my vote, and close it was, I would have voted the same. SOE has run a debacle of the game, sandbox or not. No one is going to care that TOR is not a sandbox, it's Knights of the Old Republic.
If that were so, I would have had at least one vote for SWG-NGE+ on that end-game-content thread I ran here last week. Out of an entire 8 votes, 7 were for pre-cu, one was for pre-nge, and zero for it's current state. If SWG was my vote, and close it was, I would have voted the same. SOE has run a debacle of the game, sandbox or not. No one is going to care that TOR is not a sandbox, it's Knights of the Old Republic.
Right - KOTOR, not Star Wars.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I agree that TOR isn't likely to siphon much from the indies. I think that the MMOs hardest-hit by it will be Star Wars Galaxies (obviously) and Lord of the Rings Online for its similar design.
LotRO I don't think will take that big of a hit. Sure some will leave but diehards will return, just like with WOW and other games out there. How well BioWare is able to retain that initial rush is where the tale will be told.
One game, however, I do not see lasting too long: Star Wars Galaxies. There are a few things that SWG will probably still have over TOR, namely tools for soap opera rp peeps and their awesome crafting which they pretty much killed on their own with the wow style drops. SWG "was" a huge game with more potential than I think any other game released before or since. SOE, however, was inept and incompetent when it came to maintaining the game. Of course taking people like Koster and company out of the loop did not help matters much. Anyways, if BioWare plays their cards right SWG will get the shut down order from Lucas within the first year.
If that were so, I would have had at least one vote for SWG-NGE+ on that end-game-content thread I ran here last week. Out of an entire 8 votes, 7 were for pre-cu, one was for pre-nge, and zero for it's current state. If SWG was my vote, and close it was, I would have voted the same. SOE has run a debacle of the game, sandbox or not. No one is going to care that TOR is not a sandbox, it's Knights of the Old Republic.
Right - KOTOR, not Star Wars.
ooook. Do you know what the most popular Star Wars game of all time was? Do you know what mmo SWG players were actually clamoring for when SWG was in development? After SWG was released, what game they chanted for? After the CU and NGE debacle what game they petitioned for? There in lies your answer.
Comments
No MMO will fall pray to SWTOR because in my opinion SWTOR will just move further away from the massive aspect and go further the way of instanced small 4 player groups in closed off sections of the world. People play the small indie games because they like what they have to offer. Will they go and try SWTOR? Of course. Will they stay? I highly doubt it.
I don't think SWTOR will be the holy grail you make it sound to be, no matter how you try.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Current mmo´s will see a drop in players. Mmmorpg.coms community will be screaming "A m g failz failz lulz" for a month. Then things will slowly go back as it was.
Just like how it went with most of of the AAA post relases.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
A couple of thoughts on SW as an MMO ...
- Voice driven: Not needed. It only interrupts play and while "fantastic" in its first 20 quests, it becomes a pain. The vast majority of players become uninterested and will find the function hampering their mmo play if used with every NPC interaction.
- Companions: A motivation to solo play. NPC's in the role of players is a death sentence to easy grouping. It was once a nice twist to counter the dull solo leveling in GW. Cryptic said player crew members couldn't be used in ST. Since the new LFG tool form Blizzard we now know it is the tool that defines mulitplayer possibilities in modern MMo's, no longer the unwilling players.
Players need to be motivated to group and the tools need to be easy and automated as much as possible. Companions used as NPC's - will be the a huge trap to grouping.
- Solo instances: you heard that right: solo instances. Your character is isolated from the world around him. Consequences? No whispers, no surroundings: the player is playing an instance solo. On line solo adventure is getting a new meaning.
- Bioware has zero expertise in PvP, on line player combat mechanics or e-sports. In viewing how much resources are being used to have the voice acting and solo story telling, one may wonder how they are going to make up for lack of this much needed expertise in pvp and ... class balance.
- Liniair games will get a new meaning in SW. Those who said Wow was liniair should take a good look at the single lined up story telling found in SW. The story will need to be followed step by step. No escaping. Oh here and there they could add a 2 or 3 choice step, but don't get your hopes too high: you will be guided by the nose - by hopping from solo instance through solo instance - no doubt.
- Even now, Bioware developers says they are" discussing" and "looking into" the use of "professions". That's the typical attitude these days: less than 8 months away from publisment and one of the most important aspects of an on line world is not even fixed in its final stages: the economy. War, AoC, ST didn't have it in place until the very last minute: we' seen the results.
For the above reasons SW on line looks to be a huge much inflated MMO balloon, but I don't see it attain its scheduled 1 million subscriptions after 3 months.
Since the game will be based on PVE content (much related to solo content and specific solo class progression), we will see a game that will struggle to add content on that basis. It simply will be too costly to produce this "solo" progression to satisfy the PVE hunger of players in the long term.
SW will be a flat 2 dimensional play experience: It could be an excellent on line adventure game: a new experience for players seeking an adventure game with an added auction house: a kind of SF themed Dragon Age on line for solo players.
As such it is something new. But enough to warrant 15 dollar subscriptions after 3 months? I doubt it.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
And that pretty much sums up the majority of my thoughts as well. With the exception of the storyline assoicated with the player's character, everything seems to be a been there done that type of feeling. The companions is another nail driven into the coffin for me. If they want to make a game soloable then make it soloable, not adding Heros or Companions that take the place of groups. This was one of the problems I had with Guild Wars, which is solved in GW2. While a game might swing a bit either way in the whole solo vrs group play, Companions push it towards solo( the severity all depends on the strength of the NPC Companions).
Bioware isnt know for making dynamic storylines, they are great plots and riveting tales. But it is a point A to B, then choosing if you want to do C or D or both then onto E. And the whole choosing republic or sith, then wheter you are light aligned or dark aligned based on your conversation choices makes little sense to me.
SWTOR will do great I am sure, Bioware is great at polishing and refinement which will attract plenty of players. And a majority will keep playing becuase its StarWars and cuase it is BIoware. Not sure if they will retain their subscription goal but I dont see this MMO pushing any others out of the way becuase frankly it isnt anything new under the hood. And people such as myself like different things.
Most of the smaller mmos are WoW knockoffs. The rest are free FFA PvP games. WoW isn't stopping them, so SWTOR should not either.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I agree with this post. The draw from other games will be more relative to those that have played previous BioWare games and enjoyed them. This may have a good amount of attraction to the average MMO player, but BioWare is swinging for the fences on this one. They are shooting for the MMO crowd as well as the BioWare single player crowd. This is similar to what Blizzard did by targeting non-MMO players as well as MMO players. We may very well see a good amount of players that have never played an MMO before try this game.
Thats about as dynamic a storyline as you'll find in any genre. Its as dynamic as what GW2 is offering. The only thing more dynamic would be creating your own story from scratch (a sandbox style game) and that takes imagination, not programming.
BioWare has a team of developers from SOE and Mythic, as well as some multiplayer games such as Neverwinter Nights, just to name a few ways they have expertise in PvP.
If you're talking about flashpoints, those are very small parts of the game that are cinematic. In the actual instanced missions its been shown that you still have a chat bar to communicate with the outside world. Flashpoints are available for both groups and single players. Instanced content is approximately 10% of the game.
Not to mention that every single class has a separate storyline and no content is shared between two classes in the class story. Gameplay and choices actually affect the world around you and other players can see the changes. Combat was built with PvP in mind
And as for the story, you can level and gain alignment without the story if you choose to go that route. You get more XP for finishing missions then you do killing random spawns, but its up to you how you want to play the game. You can go through the whole game grouped by level one and do nothing but group the whole way if you want. So if you'd rather grind then go through the missions you could do that too.
Most of what bobbadud said is either opinion a half truth or incorrect. I can see how so many misconceptions can get thrown around on these forums.
I predict what I'll call the "Aion Effect" for TOR. People will storm the game like crazy at first. Soon, many will finally feel the pain of their "I hope it's like SWG pre NGE" bubble bursting, while others will shrug it off because it'll be highly instanced to facilitate its storylines. After a month or 3, the numbers will fall rapidly before levelling off to a core group of players who like it as-is. Slowly, the numbers will go back up to, hopefully for Bioware, what will be financially sustainable. Will it kill WoW (and you know that's the million dollar question)? No.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Besides, isn't it going to be another year until it launches? A lot of things could change between then and now.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Ill start of by saying I'm not a WoW fan. It's funny how people want to see World of Warcraft owned by another MMO. World of Warcraft has beaten down every single MMO to date. Even if an MMO comes out that puts a dent in WoW's subs, it's ok, Blizzard has made their money on WoW 100 times over. The old republic online will be lucky to even see a quarter of WoW's subs, far less in my mind. Just because you are a hardcore star wars fan, does not mean that the old republic will be the king of MMO's. I have a feeling that Blizzards next MMO they are working on atm is going to be king of the hill for the next ten years.
I really hope WoW wont go down, otherwise the next big game will end up with all those wanks.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
I completely agree
Blizzard had a ton of goodwill going for them when WoW released. That has changed.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
To be honest I would rather have an MMO with a decent sized population than to have an MMO with a sub base on par with WoW. The reason for this is I feel the games that do between 100k and 500k players have a more dedicated playerbase which makes it easier for devs to zero in on what needs to be done within the game to keep those players happy.
When you get a game with a base the size of WoW, the devs end up catering more and more to the vocal minority, thus mechanics get more simplified and the games get easier. And to keep those insane amount of players the devs end up bending more and more. We all have seen what has happened in WoW to keep the masses happy, and while a few will sing its praises many know that the game is getting further and further from being an MMORPG and closer to a game akin to Diablo.
So yeah, give me a good game with a decently average subscription base over a behemoth 10+mil base game anyday. After all, I have yet to see an MMO with a decent population suddenly get canceled, save for those games that have anything to do with NCSoft (Auto Assault, Tabula Rasa) or MMOs who were being developed with Microsoft (Save for AC).
As for Blizzards next MMO being king of the hill? Good for it. It can have as many subscriptions as possible, but after playing WoW since launch I pretty much know how the game will be handled, hence not really being interested in it. Sure it will be a highly polished game, but I have a feeling it will be aimed more toward a simpler crowd of gamers.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Some people will still just like a fantasy setting. And they might try other MMO's in the fantasy setting
Some people will like a Sci-Fi setting. And might try other MMO's in the Sci-Fi setting
Some people like a realistic setting.
Obviously some people just play anything with not prefered preverence what so ever.
Aslong as what ever setting is fun for the player it will be played.
Myself do not see me leaving Fallen Earth for example for any of the upcoming MMORPG's, but if I leave the game it would most likely be because I have excausted the game, hardly ever do I actually leave a game I really enjoy to just try something else. I will most likely be trying some of the upcoming MMORPG's and time might change the way I currently feel, but it's far to early to speculate on that.
SWG didn’t shut any games down, so why would TOR? If any suffer, it would be SWG. Star Wars is an existing IP, those that were new to mmo’s with SWG and left, either filtered into like EVE or went away and will probably come back for TOR. Those that stayed with SWG will probably move to TOR. And what may happen is those coming from other games may keep those accounts active for a time, at least some of them depending on how strong their community connections are with those games.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
WoW is not being dumbed down for the minority - vocal or not.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Are you asking seriously?
SWG post NGE = A#1 Fanboys. They know it sucks, but nothing else Star Wars out there other than muds, browser games and the single player stuff. Some actually like it of course, NGE+, but TOR isn't going to need to be all that great to pull most of them especially since it's Jedi-centric as NGE went.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
TOR and SWG cover two very different eras in the IP. SWG is sand box, while there has been no suggestion of such gameplay in TOR. I think those two reasons are enough to keep most SWG players from switching.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
SWTOR won't shut down anything because it just really isn't that impressive at the moment. Visually TERA and GW2 look far better and even when it comes to design GW2 appears to be more interesting. SWTOR should be a great game but I don't see it leaving some massive footprint in the industry.
Massive budget or not SWTOR is on the path of your average MMO. (and nothing is wrong with average)
You say it's average because you've played other MMOs. What will a huge Star Wars fan who has never played MMOs before think of it? Especially if they've played one of BioWare's RPGs in the past? Do you think they've heard of GW or GW2? TERA? What the hell is that? Even if TOR isn't the next best thing since sliced bread and others are better, they'll still win in the subs department. I predict TOR will replace WoW as the reigning gateway MMO, unless it's a completely unacceptable pile of crap (which it won't be).
OP - I don't think it'll gobble up smaller MMOs. MMOs seem to be notoriously hard to kill. Some of them have only a few thousand subs, yet they're still open. If a AAA MMO fails, it's more likely to close because it costs more to develop and maintain. But plenty of smaller MMOs aren't AAA, so I think they'll be fine. TOR will definitely rock the boat, especially WoW's HUGEMOFO-OCEANLINEROFADDICTION, but a good part of its subs will come from MMO-virgin Star Wars fans. And most of them will eat it right up.
If that were so, I would have had at least one vote for SWG-NGE+ on that end-game-content thread I ran here last week. Out of an entire 8 votes, 7 were for pre-cu, one was for pre-nge, and zero for it's current state. If SWG was my vote, and close it was, I would have voted the same. SOE has run a debacle of the game, sandbox or not. No one is going to care that TOR is not a sandbox, it's Knights of the Old Republic.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Right - KOTOR, not Star Wars.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
LotRO I don't think will take that big of a hit. Sure some will leave but diehards will return, just like with WOW and other games out there. How well BioWare is able to retain that initial rush is where the tale will be told.
One game, however, I do not see lasting too long: Star Wars Galaxies. There are a few things that SWG will probably still have over TOR, namely tools for soap opera rp peeps and their awesome crafting which they pretty much killed on their own with the wow style drops. SWG "was" a huge game with more potential than I think any other game released before or since. SOE, however, was inept and incompetent when it came to maintaining the game. Of course taking people like Koster and company out of the loop did not help matters much. Anyways, if BioWare plays their cards right SWG will get the shut down order from Lucas within the first year.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
ooook. Do you know what the most popular Star Wars game of all time was? Do you know what mmo SWG players were actually clamoring for when SWG was in development? After SWG was released, what game they chanted for? After the CU and NGE debacle what game they petitioned for? There in lies your answer.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.