Any games that are slowly dying, can't sustain active development with the low amount of subscribers, should look into F2P hybrid model. MMO's need active development, including expansions. There are many games out there that are just idling, with some patches here and there, with no expansion future, etc.. Give people what they deserve and use a F2P hybrid model may very well give the game enough money for active development & expansions.
I'd rather prefer a game being shut down before dumbing it down or making it F2P(hybrid).
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I'd like to see EQ go f2p. That game is in dire need of more players. Oh yea, and its about the only MMO I would even consider playing. Its just not a fun solo game.
Personally I think it's a safe bet for virtually all non-WOW MMORPGs (and possibly even WOW.)
The main issue is that F2P games need to escape the terrible reputation gained due to 98% of F2P games having terrible item shop setups (which harm gameplay.) If more games go the DDO/LOL route with their item shops, F2P will cease having this negative reputation which makes players automatically reject them as money-grabs.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
None of the above. And OP good job starting one of the most one sided polls I've ever seen.
Your poll is the "everyone should know how I think and think the same way" line of thought that is so prevalent in the pathetic community in most MMO's now a days. This is the equivalent of starting a poll that says:
"Why do you think what I believe is the best?
a) Because
b) It just is
c) All of the above
If you don't think my beliefs are the best just post below."
I too agree with the where is the "None of the Above" or the "None" option in the poll?
Some of us do not like the B2P console kiddies looking for free play in our games. Our interests do not lay with the game companies or their survival, because we view such models as killing the game anyway. We would prefer the game just died with fond memories that we can talk about for years to come in comparison to newer games which will never match up...rather than accept the gross molestation of what we enjoy as it whores itself out for a few more bucks.
Idealists? Unable to adapt? Perhaps, we are.
The market is saturated with games. As much as any company would like to think we are addicted to their particular game, they are wrong. We are addicted to the escape and the distraction, having a little bit of fun in our free time. We got along fine before them and we will get along fine after them.
Take this new market for what it is, and keep it on its own lawn...Heck, realize that it is not a new market, just a different genre in the old market of online game lobbies - some of them along the lines of XBL/PSN and some along the lines of MSN/Yahoo Games.
There is no more reason to discuss any of those games at this site, as there would be to discuss any single player game with an online play mode...
...kthxbye.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I think the DDO model is a pretty good one, though whether I'd call it F2P or not is another question. It's more of a Pay as You Go set up. I tried LoTRO's trial a couple times and I thought the game was ok, but I wasn't impressed enough to buy it. If it's free and I have more time to play the game I might find that it grows on me and feel more apt to invest in opening up the parts I'd have to pay for.
It's bad for mmo's. If they are failing, let them fail. It's just milking the money cow, making way for more bad games, and already enough of those. Hardly anything worth playing long-term any longer, just disposable games. It's sad what has been done to the mmo genre, and sad that people want more of this junk. Elves with cash registers, Pfff.
Originally posted by Czargio I would like a "None of the above" button.
Same. It's bad for mmo's. If they are failing, let them fail. It's just milking the money cow, making way for more bad games, and already enough of those. Hardly anything worth playing long-term any longer, just disposable games. It's sad what has been done to the mmo genre, and sad that people want more of this junk. Elves with cash registers, Pfff. Poll is biased, no "none of the above" vote.
It's only biased againt those who want to be negative about everything. Like I said, just don't vote, that counts as a no vote, just like in real life. We already know your platform if you vote none of the above so I didn't include it because you aren't a factor.
Seriously though, if I could edit the dam poll to add your "none of the above" I would, just for you , but I can't, so deal.
Man I more so miss the days of Diablo 1. Screw this ftp but need to buy crap through the game junk. Either make it free to play online or just call it p2p already. Cut the BS and false marketing. It's only ftp till you get to a higher level that needs you to buy useless crap to level.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Originally posted by Erstok Man I more so miss the days of Diablo 1. Screw this ftp but need to buy crap through the game junk. Either make it free to play online or just call it p2p already. Cut the BS and false marketing. It's only ftp till you get to a higher level that needs you to buy useless crap to level.
And another one who doesn't understand the FTP/Hybrid model that Turbine has introduced here. Sad. Now I know what is wrong with the industry, and it isn't the developers.
It's bad for mmo's. If they are failing, let them fail. It's just milking the money cow, making way for more bad games, and already enough of those. Hardly anything worth playing long-term any longer, just disposable games. It's sad what has been done to the mmo genre, and sad that people want more of this junk. Elves with cash registers, Pfff.
Poll is biased, no "none of the above" vote.
It's only biased againt those who want to be negative about everything. Like I said, just don't vote, that counts as a no vote, just like in real life. We already know your platform if you vote none of the above so I didn't include it because you aren't a factor.
Seriously though, if I could edit the dam poll to add your "none of the above" I would, just for you , but I can't, so deal.
Voting for one over the other is negative. No vote does not count as a no vote. I voted with my post. My vote is the only positive vote (and those who vote no). Positive as in we have a shred of hope that the genre will not be taken deeper into the sloth that it already is in. Oink!
Man I more so miss the days of Diablo 1. Screw this ftp but need to buy crap through the game junk. Either make it free to play online or just call it p2p already. Cut the BS and false marketing. It's only ftp till you get to a higher level that needs you to buy useless crap to level.
And another one who doesn't understand the FTP/Hybrid model that Turbine has introduced here. Sad. Now I know what is wrong with the industry, and it isn't the developers.
Oh so now it's the fault of the players. We just don't like what we are suposed to.
I think you're overestimating the power of walking away. People want their entertainment and that includes gamers. I agree there is a lot of saturation in the online gaming market, but I think most people will cave if their favorite games change the business model in some way (Free2Start, hybrid, sub + cash shop, etc) because most people want to play their games.
I do think some publishers will realize the revenue potential of subscribers, but I don't think it will ever be like it was before cash shops and F2S hit major titles. I'll say it again. People would serve themselves better by trying to shape revenue models in their favorite games rather than fight the change altogether.
Do a poll of sub-hoppers vs. continuous subs... far more people bounce around different games, playing them for a bit until they get bored or the company does something they do not like - and then go to another game, only to have the same happen there... with them returning to other games when they have forgotten the boredom or the company does something that interests them.
You see some of the most venemous hatred toward game companies over games people did like. Look at the angst and aggression over how many IPs that have been ruined now? Heck, Cryptic is making all but the most hardcore haters begin to forget what EA did to EnB and what SoE did to SWG. What they did with CO and STO has left such a bad taste in our mouths, that it will be that much harder for any IP we like not to fail miserably - even if the game would have been acceptable to us before what Cryptic did...
I can only think of one cash shop thing I ever used. That was actually with eXteel from NCSoft - a F2P FPS. All of the stores provide an advantage for those that use them as opposed to those that do not. The companies complained for how many years about people selling items from within the game...their point of view being that the items belonged to them, etc. Well, it was obvious that at some point with declining revenues - they would realize they could tap that market of selling things from their games.
People say the DDO model works well? Well, it works well for Turbine. People are already trying to do the math on whether to buy the LotRO stuff now or after it goes F2P, with the consensus being that it would be cheaper to buy it now... so yeah...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I'm only interested in P2P games. however, I'm not currently playing any of the games in the OP, so it doesnt' make any difference to me what pay model they use.
I'm planning on playing SWTOR if it's P2P, if it's free to play with a cash shop, I will pass.
Been a very long time since I made an actual post on this forum, but this thread has made me do it.
I voted Vanguard. It is a game that I enjoyed playing but simply could not justify paying another subscription fee to continue. Especially considering there is little to no grouping in lower levels. I believe it would benefit greatly from this model. F2P would attract more players and help a decent game get back on its feet. It would allow the game to become more profitable and allow for the creation of larger community to enjoy the game. From my perspective its a win - win for the game, more money, more players and less of a tarnish on your reputation.
As for all the people screaming "NO FREE TO PLAY" I do not think that you all understand the F2P model. Most people seem to think that it will dumb down MMOs and turn MMOs into who has the most real life money wins. Cash shops that are smart make it so that you do not spend more than $15 or $20 a month on "necessary" cash shop items. Think of how many players go to gold sellers to buy gold to then buy the materials needed to make a raid easier. This will simply remove the middle man. If you want to raid with all the best pots or something like that then you are going to have to pay for it. It won't be necessary but will make your life so much easier.
Cash shops I feel are becoming popular to combat in game currency selling more than anything. Devolopers are starting to realize that there is a lot of money in gold selling. So without actually selling currency they are selling items that people tend to buy gold with: Encahntments, mounts, potions, pets, accessories, ect. I do not see this as a bad thing and will only help to make MMOs grow.
Will there be long term consequences? Maybe, but then again who knows. MMOs are a massive risk and we have not seen anyone actually attempt to be different. We are headed towards this direction no matter what. Hell even World of Warcraft seems to be setting up a cash shop and we know how much developers love to follow WoW's model. As someone who enjoys being able to swap between MMOs (I'm "playing" 3 currently) this is very exciting to me. I was thrilled to hear the LotRO announcement, especially since a lot of my friends are considering playing. We'll see what happens in the end.
------------------- If ever there was a time to rise if ever there was a time to join hands with our brothers that time is now. At this exact junction in history we have within our grasp the means to loosen our tormentors hold and win freedom for our kin. Opportunities are there to be taken.
Its interesting that of all the people saying "none of the above" there is no one giving a reason why.
Because they aren't dying to get subscription money?
FYI: Blizzard launched today a new fixed $3 subscription for its "out of the game" Auction House on the I-pod/portable market.
Probably more people will pay that new extra sub than all "free" players of FTP DDO & Lotro combined.
The answer is found in the games.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Originally posted by Edli Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Erstok Man I more so miss the days of Diablo 1. Screw this ftp but need to buy crap through the game junk. Either make it free to play online or just call it p2p already. Cut the BS and false marketing. It's only ftp till you get to a higher level that needs you to buy useless crap to level.
And another one who doesn't understand the FTP/Hybrid model that Turbine has introduced here. Sad. Now I know what is wrong with the industry, and it isn't the developers.
Oh so now it's the fault of the players. We just don't like what we are suposed to.
Worse, apparently you don't like ANYTHING. All you do is complain, have knee jerk reactions and assume you know all the details. Move along, move along.
Comments
Any games that are slowly dying, can't sustain active development with the low amount of subscribers, should look into F2P hybrid model. MMO's need active development, including expansions. There are many games out there that are just idling, with some patches here and there, with no expansion future, etc.. Give people what they deserve and use a F2P hybrid model may very well give the game enough money for active development & expansions.
Vanguard
EQ1
WAR
AoC
DAOC
etc etc
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Where's the "none" option?
I'd rather prefer a game being shut down before dumbing it down or making it F2P(hybrid).
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I'd like to see EQ go f2p. That game is in dire need of more players. Oh yea, and its about the only MMO I would even consider playing. Its just not a fun solo game.
Personally I think it's a safe bet for virtually all non-WOW MMORPGs (and possibly even WOW.)
The main issue is that F2P games need to escape the terrible reputation gained due to 98% of F2P games having terrible item shop setups (which harm gameplay.) If more games go the DDO/LOL route with their item shops, F2P will cease having this negative reputation which makes players automatically reject them as money-grabs.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
None of the above. And OP good job starting one of the most one sided polls I've ever seen.
Your poll is the "everyone should know how I think and think the same way" line of thought that is so prevalent in the pathetic community in most MMO's now a days. This is the equivalent of starting a poll that says:
"Why do you think what I believe is the best?
a) Because
b) It just is
c) All of the above
If you don't think my beliefs are the best just post below."
You're an idiot.
I too agree with the where is the "None of the Above" or the "None" option in the poll?
Some of us do not like the B2P console kiddies looking for free play in our games. Our interests do not lay with the game companies or their survival, because we view such models as killing the game anyway. We would prefer the game just died with fond memories that we can talk about for years to come in comparison to newer games which will never match up...rather than accept the gross molestation of what we enjoy as it whores itself out for a few more bucks.
Idealists? Unable to adapt? Perhaps, we are.
The market is saturated with games. As much as any company would like to think we are addicted to their particular game, they are wrong. We are addicted to the escape and the distraction, having a little bit of fun in our free time. We got along fine before them and we will get along fine after them.
Take this new market for what it is, and keep it on its own lawn...Heck, realize that it is not a new market, just a different genre in the old market of online game lobbies - some of them along the lines of XBL/PSN and some along the lines of MSN/Yahoo Games.
There is no more reason to discuss any of those games at this site, as there would be to discuss any single player game with an online play mode...
...kthxbye.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
vote: none
bias poll is bias
I think all games should have this model.
I think the DDO model is a pretty good one, though whether I'd call it F2P or not is another question. It's more of a Pay as You Go set up. I tried LoTRO's trial a couple times and I thought the game was ok, but I wasn't impressed enough to buy it. If it's free and I have more time to play the game I might find that it grows on me and feel more apt to invest in opening up the parts I'd have to pay for.
Don't waste time.
Same.
It's bad for mmo's. If they are failing, let them fail. It's just milking the money cow, making way for more bad games, and already enough of those. Hardly anything worth playing long-term any longer, just disposable games. It's sad what has been done to the mmo genre, and sad that people want more of this junk. Elves with cash registers, Pfff.
Poll is biased, no "none of the above" vote.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
It's only biased againt those who want to be negative about everything. Like I said, just don't vote, that counts as a no vote, just like in real life. We already know your platform if you vote none of the above so I didn't include it because you aren't a factor.
Seriously though, if I could edit the dam poll to add your "none of the above" I would, just for you
, but I can't, so deal.
Man I more so miss the days of Diablo 1. Screw this ftp but need to buy crap through the game junk. Either make it free to play online or just call it p2p already. Cut the BS and false marketing. It's only ftp till you get to a higher level that needs you to buy useless crap to level.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
And another one who doesn't understand the FTP/Hybrid model that Turbine has introduced here. Sad. Now I know what is wrong with the industry, and it isn't the developers.
Yes where is that option ????
Voting for one over the other is negative. No vote does not count as a no vote. I voted with my post. My vote is the only positive vote (and those who vote no). Positive as in we have a shred of hope that the genre will not be taken deeper into the sloth that it already is in. Oink!
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
Oh so now it's the fault of the players. We just don't like what we are suposed to.
Do a poll of sub-hoppers vs. continuous subs... far more people bounce around different games, playing them for a bit until they get bored or the company does something they do not like - and then go to another game, only to have the same happen there... with them returning to other games when they have forgotten the boredom or the company does something that interests them.
You see some of the most venemous hatred toward game companies over games people did like. Look at the angst and aggression over how many IPs that have been ruined now? Heck, Cryptic is making all but the most hardcore haters begin to forget what EA did to EnB and what SoE did to SWG. What they did with CO and STO has left such a bad taste in our mouths, that it will be that much harder for any IP we like not to fail miserably - even if the game would have been acceptable to us before what Cryptic did...
I can only think of one cash shop thing I ever used. That was actually with eXteel from NCSoft - a F2P FPS. All of the stores provide an advantage for those that use them as opposed to those that do not. The companies complained for how many years about people selling items from within the game...their point of view being that the items belonged to them, etc. Well, it was obvious that at some point with declining revenues - they would realize they could tap that market of selling things from their games.
People say the DDO model works well? Well, it works well for Turbine. People are already trying to do the math on whether to buy the LotRO stuff now or after it goes F2P, with the consensus being that it would be cheaper to buy it now... so yeah...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I'm only interested in P2P games. however, I'm not currently playing any of the games in the OP, so it doesnt' make any difference to me what pay model they use.
I'm planning on playing SWTOR if it's P2P, if it's free to play with a cash shop, I will pass.
Been a very long time since I made an actual post on this forum, but this thread has made me do it.
I voted Vanguard. It is a game that I enjoyed playing but simply could not justify paying another subscription fee to continue. Especially considering there is little to no grouping in lower levels. I believe it would benefit greatly from this model. F2P would attract more players and help a decent game get back on its feet. It would allow the game to become more profitable and allow for the creation of larger community to enjoy the game. From my perspective its a win - win for the game, more money, more players and less of a tarnish on your reputation.
As for all the people screaming "NO FREE TO PLAY" I do not think that you all understand the F2P model. Most people seem to think that it will dumb down MMOs and turn MMOs into who has the most real life money wins. Cash shops that are smart make it so that you do not spend more than $15 or $20 a month on "necessary" cash shop items. Think of how many players go to gold sellers to buy gold to then buy the materials needed to make a raid easier. This will simply remove the middle man. If you want to raid with all the best pots or something like that then you are going to have to pay for it. It won't be necessary but will make your life so much easier.
Cash shops I feel are becoming popular to combat in game currency selling more than anything. Devolopers are starting to realize that there is a lot of money in gold selling. So without actually selling currency they are selling items that people tend to buy gold with: Encahntments, mounts, potions, pets, accessories, ect. I do not see this as a bad thing and will only help to make MMOs grow.
Will there be long term consequences? Maybe, but then again who knows. MMOs are a massive risk and we have not seen anyone actually attempt to be different. We are headed towards this direction no matter what. Hell even World of Warcraft seems to be setting up a cash shop and we know how much developers love to follow WoW's model. As someone who enjoys being able to swap between MMOs (I'm "playing" 3 currently) this is very exciting to me. I was thrilled to hear the LotRO announcement, especially since a lot of my friends are considering playing. We'll see what happens in the end.
-------------------
If ever there was a time to rise if ever there was a time to join hands with our brothers that time is now. At this exact junction in history we have within our grasp the means to loosen our tormentors hold and win freedom for our kin. Opportunities are there to be taken.
Brothers, we must rise.
-Malaetu Shakor
Its interesting that of all the people saying "none of the above" there is no one giving a reason why.
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Because they aren't dying to get subscription money?
FYI: Blizzard launched today a new fixed $3 subscription for its "out of the game" Auction House on the I-pod/portable market.
Probably more people will pay that new extra sub than all "free" players of FTP DDO & Lotro combined.
The answer is found in the games.
Its embarrassing when an NPC compliments you in an MMo, the only relevant, cool and epic things come from players whispering you Grtz, mate, we did it. copyright Pilnkplonk
Get this guy a medal! I would love to see this.
Oh so now it's the fault of the players. We just don't like what we are suposed to.
Worse, apparently you don't like ANYTHING. All you do is complain, have knee jerk reactions and assume you know all the details. Move along, move along.