I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
Thank you for the explanation, I have never played a F2P game before. I have heard more negatives than positives about them in the past but am willing to experience them and derive my own opinion. Even if I turn out not enjoying the experience, I certainly appreciate others efforts in trying to maintain a game's financial viability.
Interesting article, could have been a little more forgiving of its readership, nevertheless a good read.
I think your right that some people just point blank refuse to give the F2P games any kind of chance, not all models are as equally draconian (or maybe obvious ) as others when it comes to providing an advantage, I've had plenty of fun across a few F2P titles, the only money I've spent is on increasing inventory.
@ the hard core naysayers - by discounting the whole F2P market you are denying yourself some free fun.
Unfortunately some F2P titles I enjoy have a random mechanic with bought items. I refuse to spend good money on something that may improve my character/mount/pet but could also devalue it, I don't gamble in RL, I'm certainly not gonna gamble my money on pixels, that would be plain stupid right? BUT so many people do it, this I think is a particularly evil side of the F2P market. The problem is there is obviously a significant portion of the gamer community that buys in to the excitement of this kind of gambling, it becomes epeen bragging rights to state how much you've spent or how lucky you've been, it worries me that this kind of mechanic generates enough income to succeed.
The important thing is your the consumer, you vote with your wallet, my fave games are sub models and B2P (guild wars) because I like an even playing field not something based on wealth, to that end I prefer a definite sub model rather than some hybrid, paying a sub that gives all players who pay it exactly the same experience, not having a sub with a cash shop on top, I detest that idea.
F2P titles for me are something to dip in and out of for some good old fashioned fun! and guess what, some of them do it quite well
3) Sorry, LOTRO is *not* giving lifers/subs free access to all classes. Right there in the FAQ: "Premium Classes: Purchasable" ( http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html ). So no, they don't come with the content expansion from Mirkwood (which pretty much everyone has by now anyways).
I think you missed the "*" by "Premium classes"
* Purchasers of the Mines of Moria expansion get access to the Mines of Moria region and content, premium classes (Rune-Keeper and Warden), legendary items feature, Tier 6 crafting feature, 2 extra character slots and a level cap of 60. Purchasers of the Siege of Mirkwood expansion get access to the Siege of Mirkwood region and content, a level cap of 65 and the Siege of Mirkwood skirmishes.
So yes, they do have to be purchased but that purchase comes with the expansion which is the way it was. Or I imagine they might let you purchase them if you didn't want the expansion.
Thank you! Yes, I did apparently, and I'm really glad you pointed that
This is the best F2P article I've read so far. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Justin.
I haven't read all of the comments so maybe someone has already pointed this out but... I just wanted to say that there is actually one game out there already that follows the model you discuss in your last paragraph - Entropia Universe. The only thing different in EU (as opposed to the model you describe) is that players have to pay for repairs but then that is how the developers make their money, and we have to allow devs to make money somehow otherwise we wouldn't have any games to play.
I used to be on the fence about F2P but the more I see the genre evolve, the more I'm convinced that it's the business model of the future.
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf I don't think players are anywhere near as confused about F2P and how it works as you try to make it sound. Those of us who hate it get how it works, we still hate it.
It isn't a matter of needing to relax or anything else. When you prefer subscription MMOs (or in my case that's the only type you'll play) and you see big name MMOs switching over, you realize that your hobby is disappearing. For each big name that switches over and is successful from doing so, more will see that and decide they should try it. The only sub based MMOs that are going to be around in a couple years are going to be Indie games.
I have zero desire to play any game where someone can compensate money for time. This isn't because I have an abundance of free time to play either. These days I really don't and in subscription MMOs I'd tend to always be behind the curve, but I have no issue with someone who puts in more time and effort being ahead of me. However as soon as someone can compensate money for time, I'm out. I don't even like companies having a subscription and then selling cosmetic items. I feel the subscription should allow all players equal access to the same items, no matter how mundane the item is.
So for me, I'm not in a panic or thrashing around wildly. I simply won't play f2p/item mall games. It's no different then the fact I will never lease a car, that option just doesn't make sense to me and seems foolish to get involved with. There are people who love to lease cars and they constantly do, it just isn't something I would do.
My only concern is how this industry copies the hell out of each other. So instead of there leveling out with a good mix of subscription only and f2p games, everyone will switch to the new trend for a few years before switching to something else. That is the part I see happening that I don't like. Look at how many games came out trying to copy WoW because it was the big thing, instead of doing their own unique take on an MMO. Now all the companies want to tap into the f2p/item mall crowd, instead of each finding their own place in the MMO world.
Even though you may not appreciate a player/poster like myself quoting your thread, I would like to say "Well Said Indeed".
I too find this new way of reaching into the real world to gain advantage or something nice in the MMO world as disturbing. I would go as far as calling it Cheating myself. I also refuse to play any F2P MMOs anymore due to how Cash Shops destroy what I value in a MMO. I tried many F2P MMOs/Online games, and the more I did the more I was convinced that it is wrong for a MMO to have this feature... wrong in the sense that it is in opposition to how MMOs traditionally were desgned and what Players were asked/expected to do ingame. I liked the old design and I do not like this new MMO design they have been offering us.
Now LotRO is going F2P, and even tho I have a Lifer Sub I may not play it ever again after the update. To me a F2P MMO with a Cash Shop is NOT a MMO.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I love F2P games because I have been unemployed for a year. I wish more of my favorites would go F2P.
That being said, I think there is real cause for the LOTRO community to be concerned. What has always made LOTRO special to us isn't the Tolkein Fanboy/girl effect. That wear's off pretty quick. What makes LOTRO special is that it has a community of mature players who are friendly and polite. Rudeness and name-calling gets squelched fast and rude players find themselves without a party. This is why so many adult women enjoy LOTRO over some other MMO's.
You can see where I am going with this. F2P tends to attract a younger crowd. F2P attracts players who are more fickle and have less investment in their reputation. A steady stream of new players joining ad quitting might be good for my crafter, but it's not so good for the overall environment and player atmosphere.
Thanks for explaining that to all of us who "just don't get it", dad. Try being a little more condescending. We like it. Actually, we do get it. Try writing an article pointing out the detractions of F2P for us. I dare ya. /end_flame
I hate to sound like an echo chamber of some other posters, but it's been hard to see MMORPG and writers like Justin jump all over how innocent (relatively) and unobtrusive F2P is. Is there anyone on the MMORPG staff who might consider writing an article about why F2P might not always be the best thing since sliced bread? Has anyone up there considered factors like how F2P changes the entire emphasis of an MMO's lore and atmosphere? Gameplay IS impacted, often in more subtle ways but no one on staff seems willing to write about these issues.
WHY do we have to all support LoTRO going F2P? I know, I know, it's here to stay so get used to it, but why, in real world terms, not MMOspeak, is F2P BETTER than other models for players? Anyone?
So not really going as far as SealJuice and flaming you Justin. But he has a point...
It's only a sham to those who want to play like they are playinga subscription game. It is more than possible to just jump on and play the turbine system free without spending a dime.
So, what you're suggesting is that in a supposedly "free to play" MMORPG, I have to restrain myself and can't play as freely as I would like to, or I may incur higher costs than I'm willing to. However, with a subscription-based MMO, I can play the way I choose, doing as much as or as little as I want, without worry of having to pay more to do so?
Well... Seems to me that's a rather wonderful argument in favor of P2P. Conversely, it's a rather damning one for microtransactions.
I played ddo for a bit and the only thing I bought was one class. Otherwise when I saw the "you need 5 tickets to ride this ride" from an npc I just moved on to a quest that I didn't need to pay.
you say you like to jump back and forth between zones. That's fine. I do the same.
but what about a person who just wants to jump in for an hour or two each week and play a bit? I can conceive that the free to play option will work out very well for them.
My sense is that to unlock the quests in an area will be 5 or 10 dollars. So if you are a casual player who doesn't have to jump back and forth you can then limit yourself to 5 or 10 dollars per month to unlock and area and just play accordingly.
Yes, these games are designed to have their hand out every time you turn around. But I dont' believe in the whole victim mentality. ever. ever.
You are responsible for yourself. So if you are the type of person who finds that they are reaching for their wallet more often than not, stop and take the subscription. Or just limit your playing time to what is offered.
Or just don't play the game.
Free to play can be "free to play" but it's free to play with a catch. As long as people don't check their brains at the door they can have some fun and move on. If they want to play competitvely (like in Archlord) or run with friends in ddo then they will have to pay something.
So depending on the person, the free to play moniker can be a truism or it can be a double edge sword. Just be smart consumers. And if you hate it dont' play. easy enough.
Sovrath, I'm honestly surprised that, of all people here, you would completely ignore the context I wrote that entire post in, and then dispute it the way you did.
You're usually a lot more on the ball than that.
I stated, very specifically, in that post that I realize LoTRO will have a hybrid model where a subscription would be available. I noted that it, along with DDO, is the minority and that most F2P MMOs don't offer subscriptions as an option.
I stated quite clearly that I was using it for the sake of illustration, to demonstrate how it would be to play LoTRO if it were a typical F2P setup and there was no subscription option available. You completely ignored all that and responded to me with "you could just take a subscription" as an option. /facepalm
That said...
That I should have to alter the way I want to play a game - even as casually as I pace myself in MMOs (I'm typically a slow-poke) - in order to "control my costs" - only adds another issue to the pile of what's wrong with the F2P/microtransaction setup and, really, underscores it.
When there's a flat sub fee, I don't need to adjust or modify anything... I can play as much or as little, as fast or as slow as I choose. I can hop around questing between 6 areas if I choose to. I pay the same fee, regardless. I activate my sub, it's set up for auto-renew and then it's out of the way, until I decide I want to cancel it again.
Only when microtransactions come into the picture do I suddenly have to "be careful" and adjust how I play the game - even if it's not as I prefer to play - just to avoid having to pay more. This, in a so-called "Free to Play" MMO. The irony just can't be overstated.
Also, it doesn't help that F2P MMOs are created with game mechanics designed specifically to drive players to use the cash shop more. This is fact. It's not some super-secret, nebulous thing that might or might not be true but "no one really knows for sure". The games are designed to drive players to the cash shop as much as possible; and the farther you get into the game, the harder they try to drive you.
Also, the whole "you're responsible for yourself" thing is completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the point of my post. I don't need to be lectured about "what I'm responsible for", thank you.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
F2P games are the natural evolution of MMOs. We live in the age of casual gaming intertwined with social networking. I personally love F2P games as I can play as often or little as I like and not feel like I've wasted my money.
I think we need more F2P games and I personally couldn't care less if people don't think I'm a "real" gamer because of that. I'd be willing to bet that the same people who are claiming that these are not "real MMOs" have never spent five minutes fighting on Vesper road in Ultima Online.
It's only a sham to those who want to play like they are playinga subscription game. It is more than possible to just jump on and play the turbine system free without spending a dime.
So, what you're suggesting is that in a supposedly "free to play" MMORPG, I have to restrain myself and can't play as freely as I would like to, or I may incur higher costs than I'm willing to. However, with a subscription-based MMO, I can play the way I choose, doing as much as or as little as I want, without worry of having to pay more to do so?
Well... Seems to me that's a rather wonderful argument in favor of P2P. Conversely, it's a rather damning one for microtransactions.
I played ddo for a bit and the only thing I bought was one class. Otherwise when I saw the "you need 5 tickets to ride this ride" from an npc I just moved on to a quest that I didn't need to pay.
you say you like to jump back and forth between zones. That's fine. I do the same.
but what about a person who just wants to jump in for an hour or two each week and play a bit? I can conceive that the free to play option will work out very well for them.
My sense is that to unlock the quests in an area will be 5 or 10 dollars. So if you are a casual player who doesn't have to jump back and forth you can then limit yourself to 5 or 10 dollars per month to unlock and area and just play accordingly.
Yes, these games are designed to have their hand out every time you turn around. But I dont' believe in the whole victim mentality. ever. ever.
You are responsible for yourself. So if you are the type of person who finds that they are reaching for their wallet more often than not, stop and take the subscription. Or just limit your playing time to what is offered.
Or just don't play the game.
Free to play can be "free to play" but it's free to play with a catch. As long as people don't check their brains at the door they can have some fun and move on. If they want to play competitvely (like in Archlord) or run with friends in ddo then they will have to pay something.
So depending on the person, the free to play moniker can be a truism or it can be a double edge sword. Just be smart consumers. And if you hate it dont' play. easy enough.
Sovrath, I'm honestly surprised that, of all people here, you would completely ignore the context I wrote that entire post in, and then dispute it the way you did.
You're usually a lot more on the ball than that.
I stated, very specifically, in that post that I realize LoTRO will have a hybrid model where a subscription would be available. I noted that it, along with DDO, is the minority and that most F2P MMOs don't offer subscriptions as an option.
I stated quite clearly that I was using it for the sake of illustration, to demonstrate how it would be to play LoTRO if it were a typical F2P setup and there was no subscription option available. You completely ignored all that and responded to me with "you could just take a subscription" as an option. /facepalm
That said...
That I should have to alter the way I want to play a game - even as casually as I pace myself in MMOs (I'm typically a slow-poke) - in order to "control my costs" - only adds another issue to the pile of what's wrong with the F2P/microtransaction setup and, really, underscores it.
When there's a flat sub fee, I don't need to adjust or modify anything... I can play as much or as little, as fast or as slow as I choose. I can hop around questing between 6 areas if I choose to. I pay the same fee, regardless. I activate my sub, it's set up for auto-renew and then it's out of the way, until I decide I want to cancel it again.
Only when microtransactions come into the picture do I suddenly have to "be careful" and adjust how I play the game - even if it's not as I prefer to play - just to avoid having to pay more. This, in a so-called "Free to Play" MMO. The irony just can't be overstated.
Also, it doesn't help that F2P MMOs are created with game mechanics designed specifically to drive players to use the cash shop more. This is fact. It's not some super-secret, nebulous thing that might or might not be true but "no one really knows for sure". The games are designed to drive players to the cash shop as much as possible; and the farther you get into the game, the harder they try to drive you.
Also, the whole "you're responsible for yourself" thing is completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the point of my post. I don't need to be lectured about "what I'm responsible for", thank you.
Well, first of all sorry if I missed that. I haven't had a lot of sleep in the past few days so I blame it on that.
As far as lecturing "you" that wasn't aimed at you. That is the problem with posting on the internet. ONe tries to get a lot fo "stuff' out and invariably something is left out. That really was more aimed at the crowed of people who start these games and slowly but surely find themselves spending far more than they would have and then blaming it on the games.
In any case that was supposed to be a "we" like the editorial "we". I was sort of thinking it was more like a "royal we" and I tend to fall in that bad habit of addressing a post and using "you" to mean "us or everyone."
I agree that you shouldn't alter your play style but that also means that you wouldn't be playing a game that interfered with your playstyle.
But for players who are very casual this type of game, regardless of turbine's system, could work very well provided they didn't expect to be competitive. I played Archlord for quite a bit and never spent one thin dime. In any case I'll look over my post in relation to your post and see where I went wrong.
Again apologies!
In any case I just deleted it as I now see your mention of that. Sorry I missed it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Geez Justin, no wonder the f2p movement has issues, it employess people like you who don't have one iota of a clue what issues players have with f2p. Take this quote:
"I can’t think of a single F2P MMO (although I’m sure there are some) that allows players to buy awesome gear with real money. And I can think of dozens that don’t. These elusive Über items are exactly that – extremely elusive. Elusive to the point of virtually not existing.
Let that sink in for a while.
F2P games hardly ever sell items that directly increase player power."
You can't think of any f2p games that do that? How about every major one except DDO, tale Runes of Magic for example, you have to buy items from the item shop for decent end game equipment, you can't compete otherwise! They all seem to sell items that increase player power, it is a rare game that doesn't. Again DDO is the exception here rather than the rule.
Next time you decide to write an article on a subject you obviously don't know much about, think twice.
Your example is not true. The Runes of Magic cash shop doesn't sell Uber gear (weapons or armor). in RoM, you can upgrade your gear using jewels, and other methods. Here is an except from the Comprehensive Guide to Upgrading Equipment form the game's offical US forums:
B. Method:
i. Vendor Jewels: Jewels bought from refinement vendors can be used to refine your equipment to +6, theoretically, but due to the high chance of failure and downgrade, they will typically only be used to reach +2. On average, equipment can be refined to +1 by using ~10 vendor jewels and refined to +2 by using ~30 vendor jewels.
ii. Item Shop Diamond Jewels: Jewels bought with Diamonds via the Item Shop have a higher probability of success, and less chance to downgrade upon failure. Typically, an item can be brought from +2 to +5 with ~15 jewels.
iii. Item Shop Ruby Jewels: Jewels bought with Rubies via the Item Shop grant a 100% chance of upgrade.
NOTE: Your success rate may vary; these are simply what the rates have been in my experience. It is unknown whether anything can be done to increase your probability of success.
In addition to the "better" cash-shop jewels (types ii and iii above), there are also other jewels available to buy in-game from NPC vendors using ingame currency (type i above), albeit they have a high failure rate.
What RoM sells are "better" jewels that "reduce the chance of bad things happening" (i.e upgrade failure), which is an example of a type of cash-store item that I explicitly stated in my article.
So, to summarize, Runes of Magic does NOT sell uber gear. And upgrading gear can be accomplished without visiting the cash shop.
So, I still stand by my statement. and the premise of the article.
Justin, seriously, play the game for a month or two and you'll see what we're saying here. The cash shop jewels are the only way to seriously over charge your in game gear, the in game stuff fails far too often to get to level 8+ and some players have spent 8K on such charge ups and it has turned them into walking gods in the game.
Toss in the fact you pay rent for extra inventory space on your character and in your vault, you can't really buy any decent furniture except through the cash shop, and probably a host of other goodies since I left the game, and you'll see ROM's cash shop has to be one of the worst examples you could have chosen if trying to alay peoples suspicions.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Geez Justin, no wonder the f2p movement has issues, it employess people like you who don't have one iota of a clue what issues players have with f2p. Take this quote:
"I can’t think of a single F2P MMO (although I’m sure there are some) that allows players to buy awesome gear with real money. And I can think of dozens that don’t. These elusive Über items are exactly that – extremely elusive. Elusive to the point of virtually not existing.
Let that sink in for a while.
F2P games hardly ever sell items that directly increase player power."
You can't think of any f2p games that do that? How about every major one except DDO, tale Runes of Magic for example, you have to buy items from the item shop for decent end game equipment, you can't compete otherwise! They all seem to sell items that increase player power, it is a rare game that doesn't. Again DDO is the exception here rather than the rule.
Next time you decide to write an article on a subject you obviously don't know much about, think twice.
Your example is not true. The Runes of Magic cash shop doesn't sell Uber gear (weapons or armor). in RoM, you can upgrade your gear using jewels, and other methods. Here is an except from the Comprehensive Guide to Upgrading Equipment form the game's offical US forums:
B. Method:
i. Vendor Jewels: Jewels bought from refinement vendors can be used to refine your equipment to +6, theoretically, but due to the high chance of failure and downgrade, they will typically only be used to reach +2. On average, equipment can be refined to +1 by using ~10 vendor jewels and refined to +2 by using ~30 vendor jewels.
ii. Item Shop Diamond Jewels: Jewels bought with Diamonds via the Item Shop have a higher probability of success, and less chance to downgrade upon failure. Typically, an item can be brought from +2 to +5 with ~15 jewels.
iii. Item Shop Ruby Jewels: Jewels bought with Rubies via the Item Shop grant a 100% chance of upgrade.
NOTE: Your success rate may vary; these are simply what the rates have been in my experience. It is unknown whether anything can be done to increase your probability of success.
In addition to the "better" cash-shop jewels (types ii and iii above), there are also other jewels available to buy in-game from NPC vendors using ingame currency (type i above), albeit they have a high failure rate.
What RoM sells are "better" jewels that "reduce the chance of bad things happening" (i.e upgrade failure), which is an example of a type of cash-store item that I explicitly stated in my article.
So, to summarize, Runes of Magic does NOT sell uber gear. And upgrading gear can be accomplished without visiting the cash shop.
So, I still stand by my statement. and the premise of the article.
Justin, seriously, play the game for a month or two and you'll see what we're saying here. The cash shop jewels are the only way to seriously over charge your in game gear, the in game stuff fails far too often to get to level 8+ and some players have spent 8K on such charge ups and it has turned them into walking gods in the game.
Toss in the fact you pay rent for extra inventory space on your character and in your vault, you can't really buy any decent furniture except through the cash shop, and probably a host of other goodies since I left the game, and you'll see ROM's cash shop has to be one of the worst examples you could have chosen if trying to alay peoples suspicions.
Not helping your point actually. The odds are better with the cash shop items, yes. But, with enough TIME spent, you can conceivably achieve the same results. So, the choice is which commodity to spend. Time or Money.
Not helping your point actually. The odds are better with the cash shop items, yes. But, with enough TIME spent, you can conceivably achieve the same results. So, the choice is which commodity to spend. Time or Money.
Well you keep posting about this you can achieve everything by grinding. If in a game you have to grind for 10 years for an cs item then you'll still say the same thing. The item is there but you have to spend an ridiculously amount of time to get it. That's our point here. The f2p games are designed to be a pain in the a.. if you don't pay. Are just not fun if you don't buy things.
I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
But, this article is an Editorial. Not a news item . . .
F2P games are the natural evolution of MMOs. We live in the age of casual gaming intertwined with social networking. I personally love F2P games as I can play as often or little as I like and not feel like I've wasted my money.
I think we need more F2P games and I personally couldn't care less if people don't think I'm a "real" gamer because of that. I'd be willing to bet that the same people who are claiming that these are not "real MMOs" have never spent five minutes fighting on Vesper road in Ultima Online.
Don't try to pull out the old man "vet card" to justify the F2P model. Your "cred" here is no greater than any other's. I'm a Trammelite OG as well, and it's clear as day that the F2P model is simply the gaming companies bending us consumers over the barrel. The whole defense from the "real gamer" attack is a straw argument (i.e. no one is seriously advancing it).
I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
But, this article is an Editorial. Not a news item . . .
It's easy to see numerous editorials all of the same vein over the course of many months if not years are more than just one-shot opinion pieces.
I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
But, this article is an Editorial. Not a news item . . .
It's easy to see numerous editorials all of the same vein over the course of many months if not years are more than just one-shot opinion pieces.
But, but that's what Editorials are. Always have been. I'm confused on how you mistook this article for being news of some form.
I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
But, this article is an Editorial. Not a news item . . .
It's easy to see numerous editorials all of the same vein over the course of many months if not years are more than just one-shot opinion pieces.
But, but that's what Editorials are. Always have been. I'm confused on how you mistook this article for being news of some form.
I think I was perfectly clear when I wrote "It's easy to see numerous editorials all of the same vein over the course of many months if not years are more than just one-shot opinion pieces." Perhaps not. How about the words "pattern recognition"?
What if the OP ed of your favorite newspaper posted ONLY articles bashing the Republican Party week after week, year after year? You're telling me that you couldn't then see the correlation between the newspaper's ownership and a particular partisanship? Of course you would. Or would you just say, "Those are just opinion pieces, and don't reflect on the paper's ownership at all"?
I am sick of all this pro F2P propaganda. I will never play a "pay to win" game. End of story.
All this recent pro F2P promoted on this site is really causing me to find a new MMO site.
Enough pushing the F2P market scam.
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
So? Are you under the impression that game sites are only about news? Of course they are going to focus on trends, and also act as a forum for game companies to display their wares. The idea that they must be some disinterested party, above and beyond, such crass concepts as profit is absurd.
MMORPG has given some games poor reviews. It has given others average and good reviews. From what I've seen they do try to be fair. They are also in this BUSINESS to make money. From all indications that I've seen, they do quite a good job of covering games, technology and the personalities that create them.
Feel the future of mmorpgs. It doesn't bother me one bit because ever since I played EQ and realized that 'phat loots' never remain 'phat' for long, I also realized that playing for free and fun is much better than paying to play anything online anymore. I think the only game I'd pay to play at this point (beyond a digital download) would be if my dream of DAOC-2 were to come to reality.
You gotta be wondering if some of these pro pay to win guys are payed for for their virtual bullshit called viral markeeting? Otherwise I really can't believe this.
I know a lot of people that rather quit the genre before havigng to deal with pay to win games. Personally I'm having a hard time taking people who are spending real money and virtual goods such as potions seriously and I for one know I don't want to play with them, thats why I chose P2P. There are just too many community and mindset differences.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I've never understood the "pay to win" phrase. Pay to win what? I've never heard of anybody winning an MMO. Maybe I just spend too much time under a rock.
Comments
Its more a matter of following trends. The trend currently is towards F2P. If that changes(it doesn't look like it at this point) I'm certain that MMORPG's coverage will as well. You are mistaking the pointing finger for the moon.
I'm also involved with Massively, as well as Ten Ton Hammer. I recommend both sites, but both have also been reporting on more F2P news.
Thank you for the explanation, I have never played a F2P game before. I have heard more negatives than positives about them in the past but am willing to experience them and derive my own opinion. Even if I turn out not enjoying the experience, I certainly appreciate others efforts in trying to maintain a game's financial viability.
Interesting article, could have been a little more forgiving of its readership, nevertheless a good read.
I think your right that some people just point blank refuse to give the F2P games any kind of chance, not all models are as equally draconian (or maybe obvious
) as others when it comes to providing an advantage, I've had plenty of fun across a few F2P titles, the only money I've spent is on increasing inventory.
@ the hard core naysayers - by discounting the whole F2P market you are denying yourself some free fun.
Unfortunately some F2P titles I enjoy have a random mechanic with bought items. I refuse to spend good money on something that may improve my character/mount/pet but could also devalue it, I don't gamble in RL, I'm certainly not gonna gamble my money on pixels, that would be plain stupid right? BUT so many people do it, this I think is a particularly evil side of the F2P market. The problem is there is obviously a significant portion of the gamer community that buys in to the excitement of this kind of gambling, it becomes epeen bragging rights to state how much you've spent or how lucky you've been, it worries me that this kind of mechanic generates enough income to succeed.
The important thing is your the consumer, you vote with your wallet, my fave games are sub models and B2P (guild wars) because I like an even playing field not something based on wealth, to that end I prefer a definite sub model rather than some hybrid, paying a sub that gives all players who pay it exactly the same experience, not having a sub with a cash shop on top, I detest that idea.
F2P titles for me are something to dip in and out of for some good old fashioned fun! and guess what, some of them do it quite well
I think you missed the "*" by "Premium classes"
* Purchasers of the Mines of Moria expansion get access to the Mines of Moria region and content, premium classes (Rune-Keeper and Warden), legendary items feature, Tier 6 crafting feature, 2 extra character slots and a level cap of 60. Purchasers of the Siege of Mirkwood expansion get access to the Siege of Mirkwood region and content, a level cap of 65 and the Siege of Mirkwood skirmishes.
So yes, they do have to be purchased but that purchase comes with the expansion which is the way it was. Or I imagine they might let you purchase them if you didn't want the expansion.
Thank you! Yes, I did apparently, and I'm really glad you pointed that
This is the best F2P article I've read so far. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Justin.
I haven't read all of the comments so maybe someone has already pointed this out but... I just wanted to say that there is actually one game out there already that follows the model you discuss in your last paragraph - Entropia Universe. The only thing different in EU (as opposed to the model you describe) is that players have to pay for repairs but then that is how the developers make their money, and we have to allow devs to make money somehow otherwise we wouldn't have any games to play.
I used to be on the fence about F2P but the more I see the genre evolve, the more I'm convinced that it's the business model of the future.
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Even though you may not appreciate a player/poster like myself quoting your thread, I would like to say "Well Said Indeed".
I too find this new way of reaching into the real world to gain advantage or something nice in the MMO world as disturbing. I would go as far as calling it Cheating myself. I also refuse to play any F2P MMOs anymore due to how Cash Shops destroy what I value in a MMO. I tried many F2P MMOs/Online games, and the more I did the more I was convinced that it is wrong for a MMO to have this feature... wrong in the sense that it is in opposition to how MMOs traditionally were desgned and what Players were asked/expected to do ingame. I liked the old design and I do not like this new MMO design they have been offering us.
Now LotRO is going F2P, and even tho I have a Lifer Sub I may not play it ever again after the update. To me a F2P MMO with a Cash Shop is NOT a MMO.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
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I love F2P games because I have been unemployed for a year. I wish more of my favorites would go F2P.
That being said, I think there is real cause for the LOTRO community to be concerned. What has always made LOTRO special to us isn't the Tolkein Fanboy/girl effect. That wear's off pretty quick. What makes LOTRO special is that it has a community of mature players who are friendly and polite. Rudeness and name-calling gets squelched fast and rude players find themselves without a party. This is why so many adult women enjoy LOTRO over some other MMO's.
You can see where I am going with this. F2P tends to attract a younger crowd. F2P attracts players who are more fickle and have less investment in their reputation. A steady stream of new players joining ad quitting might be good for my crafter, but it's not so good for the overall environment and player atmosphere.
[Mod edit]
I hate to sound like an echo chamber of some other posters, but it's been hard to see MMORPG and writers like Justin jump all over how innocent (relatively) and unobtrusive F2P is. Is there anyone on the MMORPG staff who might consider writing an article about why F2P might not always be the best thing since sliced bread? Has anyone up there considered factors like how F2P changes the entire emphasis of an MMO's lore and atmosphere? Gameplay IS impacted, often in more subtle ways but no one on staff seems willing to write about these issues.
WHY do we have to all support LoTRO going F2P? I know, I know, it's here to stay so get used to it, but why, in real world terms, not MMOspeak, is F2P BETTER than other models for players? Anyone?
So not really going as far as SealJuice and flaming you Justin. But he has a point...
Sovrath, I'm honestly surprised that, of all people here, you would completely ignore the context I wrote that entire post in, and then dispute it the way you did.
You're usually a lot more on the ball than that.
I stated, very specifically, in that post that I realize LoTRO will have a hybrid model where a subscription would be available. I noted that it, along with DDO, is the minority and that most F2P MMOs don't offer subscriptions as an option.
I stated quite clearly that I was using it for the sake of illustration, to demonstrate how it would be to play LoTRO if it were a typical F2P setup and there was no subscription option available. You completely ignored all that and responded to me with "you could just take a subscription" as an option. /facepalm
That said...
That I should have to alter the way I want to play a game - even as casually as I pace myself in MMOs (I'm typically a slow-poke) - in order to "control my costs" - only adds another issue to the pile of what's wrong with the F2P/microtransaction setup and, really, underscores it.
When there's a flat sub fee, I don't need to adjust or modify anything... I can play as much or as little, as fast or as slow as I choose. I can hop around questing between 6 areas if I choose to. I pay the same fee, regardless. I activate my sub, it's set up for auto-renew and then it's out of the way, until I decide I want to cancel it again.
Only when microtransactions come into the picture do I suddenly have to "be careful" and adjust how I play the game - even if it's not as I prefer to play - just to avoid having to pay more. This, in a so-called "Free to Play" MMO. The irony just can't be overstated.
Also, it doesn't help that F2P MMOs are created with game mechanics designed specifically to drive players to use the cash shop more. This is fact. It's not some super-secret, nebulous thing that might or might not be true but "no one really knows for sure". The games are designed to drive players to the cash shop as much as possible; and the farther you get into the game, the harder they try to drive you.
Also, the whole "you're responsible for yourself" thing is completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the point of my post. I don't need to be lectured about "what I'm responsible for", thank you.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
F2P games are the natural evolution of MMOs. We live in the age of casual gaming intertwined with social networking. I personally love F2P games as I can play as often or little as I like and not feel like I've wasted my money.
I think we need more F2P games and I personally couldn't care less if people don't think I'm a "real" gamer because of that. I'd be willing to bet that the same people who are claiming that these are not "real MMOs" have never spent five minutes fighting on Vesper road in Ultima Online.
Well, first of all sorry if I missed that. I haven't had a lot of sleep in the past few days so I blame it on that.
As far as lecturing "you" that wasn't aimed at you. That is the problem with posting on the internet. ONe tries to get a lot fo "stuff' out and invariably something is left out. That really was more aimed at the crowed of people who start these games and slowly but surely find themselves spending far more than they would have and then blaming it on the games.
In any case that was supposed to be a "we" like the editorial "we". I was sort of thinking it was more like a "royal we" and I tend to fall in that bad habit of addressing a post and using "you" to mean "us or everyone."
I agree that you shouldn't alter your play style but that also means that you wouldn't be playing a game that interfered with your playstyle.
But for players who are very casual this type of game, regardless of turbine's system, could work very well provided they didn't expect to be competitive. I played Archlord for quite a bit and never spent one thin dime. In any case I'll look over my post in relation to your post and see where I went wrong.
Again apologies!
In any case I just deleted it as I now see your mention of that. Sorry I missed it.
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Justin, seriously, play the game for a month or two and you'll see what we're saying here. The cash shop jewels are the only way to seriously over charge your in game gear, the in game stuff fails far too often to get to level 8+ and some players have spent 8K on such charge ups and it has turned them into walking gods in the game.
Toss in the fact you pay rent for extra inventory space on your character and in your vault, you can't really buy any decent furniture except through the cash shop, and probably a host of other goodies since I left the game, and you'll see ROM's cash shop has to be one of the worst examples you could have chosen if trying to alay peoples suspicions.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not helping your point actually. The odds are better with the cash shop items, yes. But, with enough TIME spent, you can conceivably achieve the same results. So, the choice is which commodity to spend. Time or Money.
Good article, Justin, though you'd have better results addressing it to The Whale -- Ahab obviously isn't listening.
Well you keep posting about this you can achieve everything by grinding. If in a game you have to grind for 10 years for an cs item then you'll still say the same thing. The item is there but you have to spend an ridiculously amount of time to get it. That's our point here. The f2p games are designed to be a pain in the a.. if you don't pay. Are just not fun if you don't buy things.
There's a rather obvious difference between reporting the news and weighing in on the news (editorializing). MMORPG.com has for quite some time now forgone the former and focused on the latter (clearly for profit/ad revenue reasons).
But, this article is an Editorial. Not a news item . . .
Don't try to pull out the old man "vet card" to justify the F2P model. Your "cred" here is no greater than any other's. I'm a Trammelite OG as well, and it's clear as day that the F2P model is simply the gaming companies bending us consumers over the barrel. The whole defense from the "real gamer" attack is a straw argument (i.e. no one is seriously advancing it).
It's easy to see numerous editorials all of the same vein over the course of many months if not years are more than just one-shot opinion pieces.
But, but that's what Editorials are. Always have been. I'm confused on how you mistook this article for being news of some form.
I think I was perfectly clear when I wrote "It's easy to see numerous editorials all of the same vein over the course of many months if not years are more than just one-shot opinion pieces." Perhaps not. How about the words "pattern recognition"?
What if the OP ed of your favorite newspaper posted ONLY articles bashing the Republican Party week after week, year after year? You're telling me that you couldn't then see the correlation between the newspaper's ownership and a particular partisanship? Of course you would. Or would you just say, "Those are just opinion pieces, and don't reflect on the paper's ownership at all"?
So? Are you under the impression that game sites are only about news? Of course they are going to focus on trends, and also act as a forum for game companies to display their wares. The idea that they must be some disinterested party, above and beyond, such crass concepts as profit is absurd.
MMORPG has given some games poor reviews. It has given others average and good reviews. From what I've seen they do try to be fair. They are also in this BUSINESS to make money. From all indications that I've seen, they do quite a good job of covering games, technology and the personalities that create them.
Feel the future of mmorpgs. It doesn't bother me one bit because ever since I played EQ and realized that 'phat loots' never remain 'phat' for long, I also realized that playing for free and fun is much better than paying to play anything online anymore. I think the only game I'd pay to play at this point (beyond a digital download) would be if my dream of DAOC-2 were to come to reality.
You gotta be wondering if some of these pro pay to win guys are payed for for their virtual bullshit called viral markeeting? Otherwise I really can't believe this.
I know a lot of people that rather quit the genre before havigng to deal with pay to win games. Personally I'm having a hard time taking people who are spending real money and virtual goods such as potions seriously and I for one know I don't want to play with them, thats why I chose P2P. There are just too many community and mindset differences.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.