Well, to be honest SWTOR never looked like a MMORPG to me in the first place, the only MMO thing about it was the expected monthly sub.
After a lot of criticism and delayed launch they started showing some group play but it all looks EXTREMELY Wowish, every single feature is taken from WoW, the only original thing about this game is the fluff (voice overs).
How can a long time MMO player like me ever get excited about this game?
How?
Hahaha. So let's get this straight. The multiple party-member voice overs, multiple party-member quest influence, facial animations, body language animations for the mission dialogs are "fluff"? O.o Yes they are, pretty much all been done before, and the quest "influence" as they have said is basically everyone gets a choice, but then its just a random dice roll that decides. So much for "Influence".
And the combat system where each blaster bolt and blade strike is accounted for and can be blocked is fluff too? Youre acting as if this hasnt been done before too. It has, only difference is rather than simply blocking these things and telling you it was blocked, SWTOR actually has a nifty animation for it, but doesnt change the actual effect of it, only looks "prettier"... that would be fluff
And the player ships with interiors and companion crews are fluff? Ships = Housing. Been done many times. Companion crews? as in extra NPCs that are there for visual and other effects, but not actual needed for the ship to function... that would be fluff
And collecting dark side or light side alignment (in an MMO!) is fluff? AKA Faction points....
And PvP where blade actually hits the other persons blade, blaster bolts can be deflected, and each class has its own tactics, this is fluff too? Mostly just extra animations, not actual impactful to gameplay, again fluff. what do you mean by "tactics" every clas sin every game has their own tactics... thats what seperates them as classes
Wait let me guess, the story immersion is fluff too. Who needs a story in MMOs right? Perhaps not considered fluff, but really if all we cared about was a story, why would we even be playing games rather than reading a book or watching a show/movie? Fun & innovative gameplay > same old gameplay with prettier animations "now with STORY!" (as if it wasnt already ther ein other MMOs) anyday
It's kinda funny that you and Benjola keep refering that TOR is a WOW clone, when in fact the things you just mentioned make it differant than WOW or any other game, while still being able from what the devs have said and from people that have actually played it feel like a very good themepark/sandbox hybrid. I think the words were, it doesn't feel like WOW or SWG or any in between, feels like it's own game.
Quote me saying it's a WoW clone cause i clearly stated that it's not. I said that given what they've shown on the gameplay vids and what Erickson and Ohlen have stated in their interviews it's worse than a WoW clone.
What have you to say about the Lead Designer saying:
1) That they are looking at 4v4 and 8v8 sized battlegrounds which he described as massive fights?
2) That companions (which albeit customisable, are common for each class) will be allowed in battlegrounds and all open world areas? confirming the worries of all those who were posting in the "Everyone has the same companion thread"
3) That you can't select your own starship but it's arranged depending on your class?
4) That if you don't use your companion you will be at a serious disadvantage compared to others?
5) That they started out with the notion of making iconic classes based on the star wars main characters and ended up making the classic trinity class type?
All these stated by James Ohlen Lead Designer of the game.
You gonna tell me again how all this is baseless and ridiculous criticism? That these are not points of concern? and stuff indicative of a sub par mmo?
The point i was trying to get across was that, From what the people have said that actually played the game at E3, not some jerk off mag writer but actual gamers, they said that , even though it feels similar to many mmo's it had it's own feeling.
I also compared what TOR will bring as well as what GW2 will bring to the table and really the only main differance's is the graphics, TOR being sci fi fantasy and GW2 being high fantasy and GW2's dynamic event system. Pretty much, both games have personal story, big world/planets, pvp instanced and open, both have 8 classes, talent system for TOR, trait system for GW2. Crafting for sure in TOR, GW2 may not even have crafting at all, who knows.
Like i mentioned in my post, what you didn't quote was, Bioware and ArenaNet both have taken systems and things from the most popular games and added their twist to them. I know for GW2 the devs have taken COH's sidekick system as well using WAR's Tome of Knowledge idea. I say, so what, a good idea that you can adjust and advance and make it your own should be used.
Both games are pushing in the direction of progression and innovation and will change the genre in my opinion. why pick one or the other, and why would anyone want to come on a particular game forum and moan about a game that they have no intentions on even playing.
Well, to be honest SWTOR never looked like a MMORPG to me in the first place, the only MMO thing about it was the expected monthly sub.
After a lot of criticism and delayed launch they started showing some group play but it all looks EXTREMELY Wowish, every single feature is taken from WoW, the only original thing about this game is the fluff (voice overs).
How can a long time MMO player like me ever get excited about this game?
How?
Spoken like a person who believes WoW was the first in the genre. Good job.
So tell me, having a tank, healer and a few dps automatically classifies this game as a WoW clone? Furthermoore how often is CC even worth using in WoW during PvE? Oh my Gluth required CC, WoW clone! From my observation it seemed like the basic trinity forumula for MMOs, WoW never clicked in my mind.
Let's look at how WoWish this game is.
Progressive armor (Guess WoW is the only one to have this, must have invented it to)
Player Homes (WoW has that?)
Tank (Same as armor, WoW created the genre)
DPS (Look up)
Heals (Look up again)
Crowd Control (At one great time, WoW used this quite often, was sad to see it go, and happy to see it return in ToR)
Companions (Hunter/Lock must have been inpiration here, right?)
Multiple Sized Group content (...seriously? WoWish?)
Instanced objective PvP (WoW clone, amirite?)
World PvP (Don't think WoW has this anymore, WG doesn't count)
Voice Overs (not even this is unique, shows how much you know)
Resource Pools that regenerate a high rate and are hastened by certain abilities
etc etc
Should I continue? Or do you wanna backtrack and fix some mistakes.
It's not a rocket science.
Everything about the design screams WoW clone.
The EXECUTIVE PRODUCER cant stop comparing it to WoW.
He wants WoW money.
He wants WoW kiddies.
He made sure the game is designed that way.
Voice overs are not original correct, Ive seen them in AoC 2 years ago,it's the first FULL voiced MMO though.
Instead of going forward SWTOR will take the genre back to 2006, graphics and feature-wise.
Enjoy it.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Well, to be honest SWTOR never looked like a MMORPG to me in the first place, the only MMO thing about it was the expected monthly sub.
After a lot of criticism and delayed launch they started showing some group play but it all looks EXTREMELY Wowish, every single feature is taken from WoW, the only original thing about this game is the fluff (voice overs).
How can a long time MMO player like me ever get excited about this game?
How?
Spoken like a person who believes WoW was the first in the genre. Good job.
So tell me, having a tank, healer and a few dps automatically classifies this game as a WoW clone? Furthermoore how often is CC even worth using in WoW during PvE? Oh my Gluth required CC, WoW clone! From my observation it seemed like the basic trinity forumula for MMOs, WoW never clicked in my mind.
Let's look at how WoWish this game is.
Progressive armor (Guess WoW is the only one to have this, must have invented it to)
Player Homes (WoW has that?)
Tank (Same as armor, WoW created the genre)
DPS (Look up)
Heals (Look up again)
Crowd Control (At one great time, WoW used this quite often, was sad to see it go, and happy to see it return in ToR)
Companions (Hunter/Lock must have been inpiration here, right?)
Multiple Sized Group content (...seriously? WoWish?)
Instanced objective PvP (WoW clone, amirite?)
World PvP (Don't think WoW has this anymore, WG doesn't count)
Voice Overs (not even this is unique, shows how much you know)
Resource Pools that regenerate a high rate and are hastened by certain abilities
etc etc
Should I continue? Or do you wanna backtrack and fix some mistakes.
It's not a rocket science.
Everything about the design screams WoW clone.
The EXECUTIVE PRODUCER cant stop comparing it to WoW.
He wants WoW money.
He wants WoW kiddies.
He made sure the game is designed that way.
Voice overs are not original correct, Ive seen them in AoC 2 years ago,it's the first FULL voiced MMO though.
Instead of going forward SWTOR will take the genre back to 2006, graphics and feature-wise.
Enjoy it.
Funny thing is GW/GW2 only has Europeans and Asians. With that said stick to what you do best. Thanks.
The EXECUTIVE PRODUCER cant stop comparing it to WoW.
He wants WoW money.
He wants WoW kiddies.
He made sure the game is designed that way.
Voice overs are not original correct, Ive seen them in AoC 2 years ago,it's the first FULL voiced MMO though.
Instead of going forward SWTOR will take the genre back to 2006, graphics and feature-wise.
Enjoy it.
Damn you're bad at understanding this.
What is the most popular MMO on the market?
Answer: WoW
When you have something the most popular game on the market offers, do you make a comparison? Something people can relate to.
Answer: Absolutely
Does "We have instanced PvP like Guild Wars" sound better to you? Probably does because you're being heavily biased here.
Graphics look fine by the way, you don't know the difference between graphics and art style. I also recall the same thing being said about WoW, it wouldn't be successful because of its appearance. Safe to say they were wrong.
I will enjoy it, and that fact seems it will cause you agony. /emosadface :'(
I dont have to explain why this game is WoW with lightsabers, it's too obvious, you fanbois need to explain to ME, and by ME I mean yourselves why isn't a WoW with lightsabers.
Someone wants to give it a shot?
If not just admit it right here on forums that it very much looks like WoW with lightsabers and thats the way you want it to be and I will delete this account, I will dissapear, thats a promise.
All people that argued with me, admit it and I'm gone.
Why is that so hard? I dont get it.
WoW is most popular game ever, 11 million subs was it?
Whats the problem?
It should be a compliment for SWTOR to be called WoW with lightsabers right?
Right?
I hate WoW but that has nothing to do with the topic here, those of you who love WoW and see so many similarities with SWTOR, why dont you admit it?
Whats wrong?
Ya, let me "Give it a shot"
Of the 8 classes each splits into 2 Sub or Advance classes, each of which has 2 specific talent trees per sub class plus one more which is a shared tree between the two Advance Classes.
Quote from James Ohlen: "There are certain powers that you can unlock or have locked away from you as you level up"
Full Body and Facial expressions while speaking.
There is a World/Galactic Story and your Personal Class Story.
There is an END to each classes Story with new content to extend each story.
The class design has been made so that we will not get forced to group with specific other professions.
All characters in the game will universally have some kind of fast-healing, meditative skill to use when out of combat.
Anti-twink measures.
Compared to other MMOs, you will recieve more XP for completing quests and less for killing creatures.
The aim is to remove Grinding.
Several classes can heal, Healing is NOT a requirement of TOR and healing has been done with a twist in TOR.
All classes have companions but you do not have to use them if you do not wish too.
Each class has a completely unique set to of Companions
Companion Characters may act as your conscience, and try to influence your decisions. In turn, you will influence them, and change how they develop as the story progresses.
Your companions, as you progress through the game, will open up unique series of quests and rewards.
You will be able to enhance your companions by equipping them with various gear.
Players can change his companion's attitudes and sometimes even his moral leaning.
Companions will be able to be customized so that everyone will not be running around with the same Wookiee template etc.
If grouped with friends, their companions will also interact with you during dialogue scenes as you talk to others.
NO AUTO ATTACK
NPC AI does seem to be aware of its surroundings, They take cover and the move away from other NPCs that may cause them harm etc.
TOR is more an action based Combat system rather than the standard MMO style in other games
Synchronized combat.
The more Dark/Light Side you go you gain access to more abilities that lean towards that calling that going the other way denies you.
You can play as a Neutral character such as a Grey Jedi.
Quote from Daniel Erickson: One of the differences with our world design is that our environments are not undulating repeated planes - all hand crafted.
The environment reacts to the player character, such as guards saluting.
Localized Instancing.
Each class gets their own ship to be used as a hub, store items and to get between planets.
A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on.
Quest Dialogue can change depending on what other player classes you bring with you during quests.
Full Voice overs for all NPC, Companions and Player Characters.
Options to read text, instead of hearing, or even skip to it altogether.
Both games are pushing in the direction of progression and innovation and will change the genre in my opinion.
Dude, how can you put progression, inovation and SWTOR in the same sentence man whats wrong with you.
Few months until Beta and the game still looks like a single player RPG ffs.
Where is the inovation dude, show it to me please.
Their character screen was explained as very similar to Dragon Age.
Companions like in their SPRPGs.
Ship as housing where your companions chill ala Mass Effect.
Then some MMO attempts:
PVP - WoW like BGs confirmed so far.
Groups maxed at 4 (wtf?)
Crafting (mentioned as similar to WoW)
On top of all that dated cartony like graphics, char models and animations.
Wheres the inovation dude, dont mix up SP with MMO.
Innovation doesn't always mean brand new, it can mean improvement. Seems apparant SWTOR will improve (Innovate) questing, story in MMOs.
Player homes, PvP, PvE, Crafting, etc can all be improved in ToR, nobody knows for sure. But so far it seems ToR has innovated the story and questing parts in the genre.
Both games are pushing in the direction of progression and innovation and will change the genre in my opinion.
Dude, how can you put progression, inovation and SWTOR in the same sentence man whats wrong with you.
Few months until Beta and the game still looks like a single player RPG ffs.
Where is the inovation dude, show it to me please.
Their character screen was explained as very similar to Dragon Age.
Companions like in their SPRPGs.
Ship as housing where your companions chill ala Mass Effect.
Then some MMO attempts:
PVP - WoW like BGs confirmed so far.
Groups maxed at 4 (wtf?)
Crafting (mentioned as similar to WoW)
On top of all that dated cartony like graphics, char models and animations.
Wheres the inovation dude, dont mix up SP with MMO.
Dragon Age is widely heralded for its character creation screen btw...
They are brining invovation to the MMO genre. Your saying just cause Call Of Duty is a FPS it can't borrow RPG like elements from the RPG genre, which makes it the most popular FPS currently.
Both games are pushing in the direction of progression and innovation and will change the genre in my opinion.
Dude, how can you put progression, inovation and SWTOR in the same sentence man whats wrong with you.
Few months until Beta and the game still looks like a single player RPG ffs.
Where is the inovation dude, show it to me please.
Their character screen was explained as very similar to Dragon Age.
Companions like in their SPRPGs.
Ship as housing where your companions chill ala Mass Effect.
Then some MMO attempts:
PVP - WoW like BGs confirmed so far.
Groups maxed at 4 (wtf?)
Crafting (mentioned as similar to WoW)
On top of all that dated cartony like graphics, char models and aanimations.
Wheres the inovation dude, dont mix up SP with MMO.
No, i think you need to check yourself. I just listed out the similarities that both TOR and GW2 have in common and pretty much there not that much differant. So if you are a GW2 fan you pretty much should be saying the same thing for that game as well. i might be giving you to much credit though. You probably don't even know anything about GW2, so seeing and knowing the similarities is really a mute point for you.
Of the 8 classes each splits into 2 Sub or Advance classes, each of which has 2 specific talent trees per sub class plus one more which is a shared tree between the two Advance Classes.
Quote from James Ohlen: "There are certain powers that you can unlock or have locked away from you as you level up"
Full Body and Facial expressions while speaking.
There is a World/Galactic Story and your Personal Class Story.
There is an END to each classes Story with new content to extend each story.
The class design has been made so that we will not get forced to group with specific other professions.
All characters in the game will universally have some kind of fast-healing, meditative skill to use when out of combat.
Anti-twink measures.
Compared to other MMOs, you will recieve more XP for completing quests and less for killing creatures.
The aim is to remove Grinding.
Several classes can heal, Healing is NOT a requirement of TOR and healing has been done with a twist in TOR.
All classes have companions but you do not have to use them if you do not wish too.
Each class has a completely unique set to of Companions
Companion Characters may act as your conscience, and try to influence your decisions. In turn, you will influence them, and change how they develop as the story progresses.
Your companions, as you progress through the game, will open up unique series of quests and rewards.
You will be able to enhance your companions by equipping them with various gear.
Players can change his companion's attitudes and sometimes even his moral leaning.
Companions will be able to be customized so that everyone will not be running around with the same Wookiee template etc.
If grouped with friends, their companions will also interact with you during dialogue scenes as you talk to others.
NO AUTO ATTACK
NPC AI does seem to be aware of its surroundings, They take cover and the move away from other NPCs that may cause them harm etc.
TOR is more an action based Combat system rather than the standard MMO style in other games
Synchronized combat.
The more Dark/Light Side you go you gain access to more abilities that lean towards that calling that going the other way denies you.
You can play as a Neutral character such as a Grey Jedi.
Quote from Daniel Erickson: One of the differences with our world design is that our environments are not undulating repeated planes - all hand crafted.
The environment reacts to the player character, such as guards saluting.
Localized Instancing.
Each class gets their own ship to be used as a hub, store items and to get between planets.
A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on.
Quest Dialogue can change depending on what other player classes you bring with you during quests.
Full Voice overs for all NPC, Companions and Player Characters.
Options to read text, instead of hearing, or even skip to it altogether.
Built in Quest Helper System.
I will give you an A for the effort but I'm not convinced sadly.
Of the 8 classes each splits into 2 Sub or Advance classes, each of which has 2 specific talent trees per sub class plus one more which is a shared tree between the two Advance Classes.
Quote from James Ohlen: "There are certain powers that you can unlock or have locked away from you as you level up"
Full Body and Facial expressions while speaking.
There is a World/Galactic Story and your Personal Class Story.
There is an END to each classes Story with new content to extend each story.
The class design has been made so that we will not get forced to group with specific other professions.
All characters in the game will universally have some kind of fast-healing, meditative skill to use when out of combat.
Anti-twink measures.
Compared to other MMOs, you will recieve more XP for completing quests and less for killing creatures.
The aim is to remove Grinding.
Several classes can heal, Healing is NOT a requirement of TOR and healing has been done with a twist in TOR.
All classes have companions but you do not have to use them if you do not wish too.
Each class has a completely unique set to of Companions
Companion Characters may act as your conscience, and try to influence your decisions. In turn, you will influence them, and change how they develop as the story progresses.
Your companions, as you progress through the game, will open up unique series of quests and rewards.
You will be able to enhance your companions by equipping them with various gear.
Players can change his companion's attitudes and sometimes even his moral leaning.
Companions will be able to be customized so that everyone will not be running around with the same Wookiee template etc.
If grouped with friends, their companions will also interact with you during dialogue scenes as you talk to others.
NO AUTO ATTACK
NPC AI does seem to be aware of its surroundings, They take cover and the move away from other NPCs that may cause them harm etc.
TOR is more an action based Combat system rather than the standard MMO style in other games
Synchronized combat.
The more Dark/Light Side you go you gain access to more abilities that lean towards that calling that going the other way denies you.
You can play as a Neutral character such as a Grey Jedi.
Quote from Daniel Erickson: One of the differences with our world design is that our environments are not undulating repeated planes - all hand crafted.
The environment reacts to the player character, such as guards saluting.
Localized Instancing.
Each class gets their own ship to be used as a hub, store items and to get between planets.
A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on.
Quest Dialogue can change depending on what other player classes you bring with you during quests.
Full Voice overs for all NPC, Companions and Player Characters.
Options to read text, instead of hearing, or even skip to it altogether.
Built in Quest Helper System.
I will give you an A for the effort but I'm not convinced sadly.
Dont hate me.
If that doesn't convince you along with the fact that the game is still a year out and they have a lot yet to release, I think you just made it very obvious that your not against this game cause it appears to be a bad game, your against it because it appears to be popular in which case there is no reasoning with you because your actually not brining anything factual, or even common sense to the table.
No, i think you need to check yourself. I just listed out the similarities that both TOR and GW2 have in common and pretty much their not that much differant. So if you are a GW2 fan you pretty much should be saying the same thing for that game as well. i might be giving you to much credit though. You probably don't even know anything about GW2, so seeing and knowing the similarities is really a mute point for you.
No I follow GW2 and I know many things about it, well, everything thats available and it's totally different design to anything we've seen so far.
It has some things I dont like like levels and I'm not a fan of high fantasy char models but I dont like comparing it here I was acused of pimping the game in wrong forum or whatever when I know it's not needed, GW2 will bury antyhing that launches 2011. (IF the devs deliever)
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Well, to be honest SWTOR never looked like a MMORPG to me in the first place, the only MMO thing about it was the expected monthly sub.
After a lot of criticism and delayed launch they started showing some group play but it all looks EXTREMELY Wowish, every single feature is taken from WoW, the only original thing about this game is the fluff (voice overs).
How can a long time MMO player like me ever get excited about this game?
How?
Hahaha. So let's get this straight. The multiple party-member voice overs, multiple party-member quest influence, facial animations, body language animations for the mission dialogs are "fluff"? O.o
And the combat system where each blaster bolt and blade strike is accounted for and can be blocked is fluff too?
And the player ships with interiors and companion crews are fluff?
And collecting dark side or light side alignment (in an MMO!) is fluff?
And PvP where blade actually hits the other persons blade, blaster bolts can be deflected, and each class has its own tactics, this is fluff too?
Wait let me guess, the story immersion is fluff too. Who needs a story in MMOs right?
Do tell Benjola, do tell...
Most of what you said is fluff correct.
mostly SPRPG elements.
From PVP all we know is WoW like BGs.
I cant wait.....
Uh,I'd like to hear your view of the core of an MMO then. But first let's compare this to GW 2.
GW 2 likely mainly uses text for quests. Same as 1st gen MMOs.
GW 2 will most likely not allow multiple players to influence the permanent direction of the mission choices. Like WoW.
GW 2 melee combat looks the same as WoW. The weapons or shields do not actually touch lol.
GW 2 doesn't do space just land like WoW. So forget about that or other planets.
GW 2 doesn't have an alignment system that accounts for the choices you've made in all your quests and compare to other players. Just like WoW.
Finally Arena.net is not known for their storytelling, kind of like Blizzard.
But of course you're saying who needs these "SRPG" elements that TOR will have. And of course when you put SRPG elements into an MMO that effect thousands of people besides just your player then they are no longer SRPG elements... They become next gen MMO elements?
If that doesn't convince you along with the fact that the game is still a year out and they have a lot yet to release, I think you just made it very obvious that your not against this game cause it appears to be a bad game, your against it because it appears to be popular in which case there is no reasoning with you because your actually not brining anything factual, or even common sense to the table.
Chill on the year away please, the launch is 9 months away = Beta in 3 months tops.
Dont be one of those guys that says It's only Alpha, It's only Beta. It just launched, It has potential give it time, Mirracle patch next week...etc.
Dont be that guy.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
One finds fanatics in just about everything, why should games be any different? But those who are ranting and raving about TOR not being some type of uber UO, are really over doing it.
If that doesn't convince you along with the fact that the game is still a year out and they have a lot yet to release, I think you just made it very obvious that your not against this game cause it appears to be a bad game, your against it because it appears to be popular in which case there is no reasoning with you because your actually not brining anything factual, or even common sense to the table.
Chill on the year away please, the launch is 9 months away = Beta in 3 months tops.
Dont be one of those guys that says It's only Alpha, It's only Beta. It just launched, It has potential give it time, Mirracle patch next week...etc.
Dont be that guy.
EA confirms that Star Wars: The Old Republic won't hit the market until sometime after March 31, 2011
Thats atleast 10 months, beta for 7 months?!?! Then shouldn't you atleast wait to troll on the game until it comes out in BETA, then we can actually have a conversation about the good and bad and back it up with facts? Wait, I forgot, thats not how trolling works.
If that doesn't convince you along with the fact that the game is still a year out and they have a lot yet to release, I think you just made it very obvious that your not against this game cause it appears to be a bad game, your against it because it appears to be popular in which case there is no reasoning with you because your actually not brining anything factual, or even common sense to the table.
Chill on the year away please, the launch is 9 months away = Beta in 3 months tops.
Dont be one of those guys that says It's only Alpha, It's only Beta. It just launched, It has potential give it time, Mirracle patch next week...etc.
Uh,I'd like to hear your view of the core of an MMO then. But first let's compare this to GW 2.
GW 2 likely mainly uses text for quests. Same as 1st gen MMOs.
GW 2 will most likely not allow multiple players to influence the permanent direction of the mission choices. Like WoW.
GW 2 melee combat looks the same as WoW. The weapons or shields do not actually touch lol.
GW 2 doesn't do space just land like WoW. So forget about that or other planets.
GW 2 doesn't have an alignment system that accounts for the choices you've made in all your quests and compare to other players. Just like WoW.
Finally Arena.net is not known for their storytelling, kind of like Blizzard.
But of course you're saying who needs these "SRPG" elements that TOR will have. And of course when you put SRPG elements into an MMO that effect thousands of people besides just your player then they are no longer SRPG elements... They become next gen MMO elements?
GW2 is going away from traditional text based questing, wrong info there.
The missions will be dynamic with superior mob AIs (if you dont attack enemy camp they will multiply and take over land, build forts and start attacking roads or some such, sounds extremely interesting gameplay, so you wrong there too.
The melee combat is explained in detail for the only melee class revealed so far ( can Bioware say the same? all you hear is fluff from them) - wrong info there too.
SWTOR have no space confirmed, wrong info there too.
As for PVP, you´d be very dumb to criticize GW´s PVP because whenever PVP discussions start only 2 games get mentioned as best at it, DoAC and GW.
GW2 will have the best PVP to date, always balanced perfectly.
Now.. go read on their official site if you want real info.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
No, i think you need to check yourself. I just listed out the similarities that both TOR and GW2 have in common and pretty much their not that much differant. So if you are a GW2 fan you pretty much should be saying the same thing for that game as well. i might be giving you to much credit though. You probably don't even know anything about GW2, so seeing and knowing the similarities is really a mute point for you.
No I follow GW2 and I know many things about it, well, everything thats available and it's totally different design to anything we've seen so far.
It has some things I dont like like levels and I'm not a fan of high fantasy char models but I dont like comparing it here I was acused of pimping the game in wrong forum or whatever when I know it's not needed, GW2 will bury antyhing that launches 2011. (IF the devs deliever)
No it's not. The only thing that stands out is the dynamic event system. GW2 will have everything that all other mmo's have just like TOR will. I will even go out on a limb and say that GW2 will have loading screens galore for entering any story mode instance as well as PVP arena's. TOR doesn't have loading screens, it's all seemless. TOR will have crafting, i don't even think GW2 will at all, not sure.
See how easy it is. I can sit around and pick apart GW2 all day long. I don't, because like TOR i see real progression and innovation thats will push the genre forward.
Well, to be honest SWTOR never looked like a MMORPG to me in the first place, the only MMO thing about it was the expected monthly sub.
After a lot of criticism and delayed launch they started showing some group play but it all looks EXTREMELY Wowish, every single feature is taken from WoW, the only original thing about this game is the fluff (voice overs).
How can a long time MMO player like me ever get excited about this game?
How?
Hahaha. So let's get this straight. The multiple party-member voice overs, multiple party-member quest influence, facial animations, body language animations for the mission dialogs are "fluff"? O.o
And the combat system where each blaster bolt and blade strike is accounted for and can be blocked is fluff too?
And the player ships with interiors and companion crews are fluff?
And collecting dark side or light side alignment (in an MMO!) is fluff?
And PvP where blade actually hits the other persons blade, blaster bolts can be deflected, and each class has its own tactics, this is fluff too?
Wait let me guess, the story immersion is fluff too. Who needs a story in MMOs right?
Do tell Benjola, do tell...
Most of what you said is fluff correct.
mostly SPRPG elements.
From PVP all we know is WoW like BGs.
I cant wait.....
Uh,I'd like to hear your view of the core of an MMO then. But first let's compare this to GW 2.
GW 2 likely mainly uses text for quests. Same as 1st gen MMOs. Actually, there are no "quests" to begin with, there will be the personal storyline, which will be voiced and is actually a progressive story influenced by decisions you make both during character creation (sort of a survey to set the background of your character) and decisions you make throughout the game. Outside of the personal story, you have the dynamic event system, which if there is any sort of "announcement" of events happening, yeah theyll most likely be in text, only way really to do it considering the random elements involved.
GW 2 will most likely not allow multiple players to influence the permanent direction of the mission choices. Like WoW. Your "missions" are the PERSONAL storyline, influence dby your own choices but you can bring in others to help out. As mentione dabove, there is the Dynamic Event System, which will be influenced by not only your party but everyone in the area, as well as other things happening throughout the world. In that aspect it will be superior because it is not limite dto just 4 people influencing a static storyline, it is everyone in the game impacting the world at the same time.
GW 2 melee combat looks the same as WoW. The weapons or shields do not actually touch lol. The only melee combat theyeve shown is the Warrior, and it actually does have some of those effects like the active blocking with the shield. Perhaps not to the same extent as TOR, but these are just fluff animations anyway, they still have the same effects wethe rthe animation is there or not.
GW 2 doesn't do space just land like WoW. So forget about that or other planets. From what weve been told so far, the only "space" in the game is basically a cutscene of your ship flying from Planet A to Planet B, they have no space combat or flight as of yet, so when it comes down to it, it is JUST land. Planets = Zones by a different name. You could easily take all of the planets and name them 1 planet and just section the areas off with zoning. Nothing special at all there.
GW 2 doesn't have an alignment system that accounts for the choices you've made in all your quests and compare to other players. Just like WoW. From what you know so far they dont have that, theyve still got loads to announce. And while not called "alignment" your choices definitely will have an impact on things that happen.
Finally Arena.net is not known for their storytelling, kind of like Blizzard. Um... Says who? Most who have actually played GW1 any decent amount will tell you different. They actually have a really great story in GW1 and they will be expanding on their storytelling in GW2 with the Personal Storyline missions.
But of course you're saying who needs these "SRPG" elements that TOR will have. And of course when you put SRPG elements into an MMO that effect thousands of people besides just your player then they are no longer SRPG elements... They become next gen MMO elements?
You can repeat it many times but it wont make it true.
SWTOR is taking the genre back to 2005.
GW2 will progress it and take it to a new decade of fresh interesting gaming.
About time.
Now, play SWTOR all you like I dont care, just dont pretend its something that´s not.
Please respond by quoting so that we know what your talking about and we can actively have a conversation about it, instead of you making general arguements which are baseless like "SWTOR is taking the genre back to 2005."
Comments
The point i was trying to get across was that, From what the people have said that actually played the game at E3, not some jerk off mag writer but actual gamers, they said that , even though it feels similar to many mmo's it had it's own feeling.
I also compared what TOR will bring as well as what GW2 will bring to the table and really the only main differance's is the graphics, TOR being sci fi fantasy and GW2 being high fantasy and GW2's dynamic event system. Pretty much, both games have personal story, big world/planets, pvp instanced and open, both have 8 classes, talent system for TOR, trait system for GW2. Crafting for sure in TOR, GW2 may not even have crafting at all, who knows.
Like i mentioned in my post, what you didn't quote was, Bioware and ArenaNet both have taken systems and things from the most popular games and added their twist to them. I know for GW2 the devs have taken COH's sidekick system as well using WAR's Tome of Knowledge idea. I say, so what, a good idea that you can adjust and advance and make it your own should be used.
Both games are pushing in the direction of progression and innovation and will change the genre in my opinion. why pick one or the other, and why would anyone want to come on a particular game forum and moan about a game that they have no intentions on even playing.
GW2 fanbois should probably stay in their own forums. From what Kaiser said it sounds more like WoW than SW:ToR.
It's not a rocket science.
Everything about the design screams WoW clone.
The EXECUTIVE PRODUCER cant stop comparing it to WoW.
He wants WoW money.
He wants WoW kiddies.
He made sure the game is designed that way.
Voice overs are not original correct, Ive seen them in AoC 2 years ago,it's the first FULL voiced MMO though.
Instead of going forward SWTOR will take the genre back to 2006, graphics and feature-wise.
Enjoy it.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Funny thing is GW/GW2 only has Europeans and Asians. With that said stick to what you do best. Thanks.
Damn you're bad at understanding this.
What is the most popular MMO on the market?
Answer: WoW
When you have something the most popular game on the market offers, do you make a comparison? Something people can relate to.
Answer: Absolutely
Does "We have instanced PvP like Guild Wars" sound better to you? Probably does because you're being heavily biased here.
Graphics look fine by the way, you don't know the difference between graphics and art style. I also recall the same thing being said about WoW, it wouldn't be successful because of its appearance. Safe to say they were wrong.
I will enjoy it, and that fact seems it will cause you agony. /emosadface :'(
Dude, how can you put progression, inovation and SWTOR in the same sentence man whats wrong with you.
Few months until Beta and the game still looks like a single player RPG ffs.
Where is the inovation dude, show it to me please.
Their character screen was explained as very similar to Dragon Age.
Companions like in their SPRPGs.
Ship as housing where your companions chill ala Mass Effect.
Then some MMO attempts:
PVP - WoW like BGs confirmed so far.
Groups maxed at 4 (wtf?)
Crafting (mentioned as similar to WoW)
On top of all that dated cartony like graphics, char models and animations.
Wheres the inovation dude, dont mix up SP with MMO.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Ya, let me "Give it a shot"
Of the 8 classes each splits into 2 Sub or Advance classes, each of which has 2 specific talent trees per sub class plus one more which is a shared tree between the two Advance Classes.
Quote from James Ohlen: "There are certain powers that you can unlock or have locked away from you as you level up"
Full Body and Facial expressions while speaking.
There is a World/Galactic Story and your Personal Class Story.
There is an END to each classes Story with new content to extend each story.
The class design has been made so that we will not get forced to group with specific other professions.
All characters in the game will universally have some kind of fast-healing, meditative skill to use when out of combat.
Anti-twink measures.
Compared to other MMOs, you will recieve more XP for completing quests and less for killing creatures.
The aim is to remove Grinding.
Several classes can heal, Healing is NOT a requirement of TOR and healing has been done with a twist in TOR.
All classes have companions but you do not have to use them if you do not wish too.
Each class has a completely unique set to of Companions
Companion Characters may act as your conscience, and try to influence your decisions. In turn, you will influence them, and change how they develop as the story progresses.
Your companions, as you progress through the game, will open up unique series of quests and rewards.
You will be able to enhance your companions by equipping them with various gear.
Players can change his companion's attitudes and sometimes even his moral leaning.
Companions will be able to be customized so that everyone will not be running around with the same Wookiee template etc.
If grouped with friends, their companions will also interact with you during dialogue scenes as you talk to others.
NO AUTO ATTACK
NPC AI does seem to be aware of its surroundings, They take cover and the move away from other NPCs that may cause them harm etc.
TOR is more an action based Combat system rather than the standard MMO style in other games
Synchronized combat.
The more Dark/Light Side you go you gain access to more abilities that lean towards that calling that going the other way denies you.
You can play as a Neutral character such as a Grey Jedi.
Quote from Daniel Erickson: One of the differences with our world design is that our environments are not undulating repeated planes - all hand crafted.
The environment reacts to the player character, such as guards saluting.
Localized Instancing.
Each class gets their own ship to be used as a hub, store items and to get between planets.
A space Experience will be in game, its still being worked on.
Quest Dialogue can change depending on what other player classes you bring with you during quests.
Full Voice overs for all NPC, Companions and Player Characters.
Options to read text, instead of hearing, or even skip to it altogether.
Built in Quest Helper System.
Innovation doesn't always mean brand new, it can mean improvement. Seems apparant SWTOR will improve (Innovate) questing, story in MMOs.
Player homes, PvP, PvE, Crafting, etc can all be improved in ToR, nobody knows for sure. But so far it seems ToR has innovated the story and questing parts in the genre.
Dragon Age is widely heralded for its character creation screen btw...
They are brining invovation to the MMO genre. Your saying just cause Call Of Duty is a FPS it can't borrow RPG like elements from the RPG genre, which makes it the most popular FPS currently.
No, i think you need to check yourself. I just listed out the similarities that both TOR and GW2 have in common and pretty much there not that much differant. So if you are a GW2 fan you pretty much should be saying the same thing for that game as well. i might be giving you to much credit though. You probably don't even know anything about GW2, so seeing and knowing the similarities is really a mute point for you.
Translates to: I didn't read this.
If that doesn't convince you along with the fact that the game is still a year out and they have a lot yet to release, I think you just made it very obvious that your not against this game cause it appears to be a bad game, your against it because it appears to be popular in which case there is no reasoning with you because your actually not brining anything factual, or even common sense to the table.
No I follow GW2 and I know many things about it, well, everything thats available and it's totally different design to anything we've seen so far.
It has some things I dont like like levels and I'm not a fan of high fantasy char models but I dont like comparing it here I was acused of pimping the game in wrong forum or whatever when I know it's not needed, GW2 will bury antyhing that launches 2011. (IF the devs deliever)
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Uh,I'd like to hear your view of the core of an MMO then. But first let's compare this to GW 2.
GW 2 likely mainly uses text for quests. Same as 1st gen MMOs.
GW 2 will most likely not allow multiple players to influence the permanent direction of the mission choices. Like WoW.
GW 2 melee combat looks the same as WoW. The weapons or shields do not actually touch lol.
GW 2 doesn't do space just land like WoW. So forget about that or other planets.
GW 2 doesn't have an alignment system that accounts for the choices you've made in all your quests and compare to other players. Just like WoW.
Finally Arena.net is not known for their storytelling, kind of like Blizzard.
But of course you're saying who needs these "SRPG" elements that TOR will have. And of course when you put SRPG elements into an MMO that effect thousands of people besides just your player then they are no longer SRPG elements... They become next gen MMO elements?
Chill on the year away please, the launch is 9 months away = Beta in 3 months tops.
Dont be one of those guys that says It's only Alpha, It's only Beta. It just launched, It has potential give it time, Mirracle patch next week...etc.
Dont be that guy.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Away with you vile speaker of the Truth! ^^
One finds fanatics in just about everything, why should games be any different? But those who are ranting and raving about TOR not being some type of uber UO, are really over doing it.
EA confirms that Star Wars: The Old Republic won't hit the market until sometime after March 31, 2011
Thats atleast 10 months, beta for 7 months?!?! Then shouldn't you atleast wait to troll on the game until it comes out in BETA, then we can actually have a conversation about the good and bad and back it up with facts? Wait, I forgot, thats not how trolling works.
Same guy that quotes himself over and over again.
GW2 is going away from traditional text based questing, wrong info there.
The missions will be dynamic with superior mob AIs (if you dont attack enemy camp they will multiply and take over land, build forts and start attacking roads or some such, sounds extremely interesting gameplay, so you wrong there too.
The melee combat is explained in detail for the only melee class revealed so far ( can Bioware say the same? all you hear is fluff from them) - wrong info there too.
SWTOR have no space confirmed, wrong info there too.
As for PVP, you´d be very dumb to criticize GW´s PVP because whenever PVP discussions start only 2 games get mentioned as best at it, DoAC and GW.
GW2 will have the best PVP to date, always balanced perfectly.
Now.. go read on their official site if you want real info.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
No it's not. The only thing that stands out is the dynamic event system. GW2 will have everything that all other mmo's have just like TOR will. I will even go out on a limb and say that GW2 will have loading screens galore for entering any story mode instance as well as PVP arena's. TOR doesn't have loading screens, it's all seemless. TOR will have crafting, i don't even think GW2 will at all, not sure.
See how easy it is. I can sit around and pick apart GW2 all day long. I don't, because like TOR i see real progression and innovation thats will push the genre forward.
You can repeat it many times but it wont make it true.
SWTOR is taking the genre back to 2005.
GW2 will progress it and take it to a new decade of fresh interesting gaming.
About time.
Now, play SWTOR all you like I dont care, just dont pretend its something that´s not.
EDIT this is for musicmann the dude that spreads false info heh.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
^ Still has not specified why. I'll do it for you.
ToR will not be successful because I don't know much about it.
GW2 will be succesful because hardly anything is known about it.
Please respond by quoting so that we know what your talking about and we can actively have a conversation about it, instead of you making general arguements which are baseless like "SWTOR is taking the genre back to 2005."