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MMORPG.COM News: Mourning Removed
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I applaud MMORPG.com
The game itself looks good however the way the PR treat the community is un acceptable. I was going to try the game untill I saw how they treated everyone including me... They desperately need a new PR department or the game wont go anywhere, no matter how good the game looks.
I feel sorry for anyone in the Mourning dev team that is going down because of the PR department and do not agree with them but we cannot allow the team to treat us like this again. Anyone in the dev team that does not agree with the way the PR dep is acting needs to stand up and say STOP, we want a change and you are not going to ruin this game for everyone. I will not be playing Mourning untill this happens, and even then it is iffy.. Though I would like to wish anyone in the dev team good luck on changing the attitude of the overall PR.
Good move by MMORPG.com as far as I am concerned.
"Well this doesnt surprise me, MMORPG.com is a fansite that holds grudges, simple as that. I'm sure if WoW had people in it's forums posting that kind of crap it would be deleted like that and the writer banned for life, And if i could break the NDA i would tell you that their is a LOT going on positive in the game. MMORPG.com and it's fans are just a bunch of posers, obviosuly with the IGE banner flying over your boards, how much are they paying you for that? how much is sony paying you to post info about their "game" if you wanna call it that, the fact is their are plenty of other sites out their better than this one (gamergod) that might not be as pretty but at least i know the info im getting is not false and full of lies. Keep your WoW and EQ2 crowd happy, the "real gamers" will go elsewhere for UNBAISED news and information.
Nail on the head Bro
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
There's already a poll up on their forums asking where they heard of Mourning.
Needless to say, MMORPG.com is currently at 51.52%
http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=3a3974cbab67ea1e1011d107d94a8ce2&threadid=18431
umm... Stratics? :P
"Fire is never a gentle master..."
Props to their publisher and for the lack of respect to Spoon's post which i believe was trying to bring to attention that the people of Mourning need to get a better PR rep to help improve things. But they failed and now it's a huge train wreck. Also props to mods from other sites pretending to be mods here.
If and when this vaporware becomes real i may still pick it up but doubt it especially if Dark and Light caters to what I like.
Good move mmorpg.com don't listen to the mourning fanbois
Also a minder to every single dev out there:
This is a smack-talk forum place but also your best place to be seen, when someone who's new to mmorpg's start playing, where will they look? On the easiest addy there is... and it doesn't get easier than www.mmorpg.com, so I have to say, losing a spot here is just about as nice as a kick in the ground by a steelcap boot...
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Well I heard of it on here. I mean this is where I get probably 90% of my MMO news. As I said earlier I cant understand why Mourning would NOT want to be on here no matter how bad the forum discusion was. At the end of the day only a small percentage of MMO's readers post in the forums and if you take Mourning as a case in point its fair to say that a dozen of us have scared the developers of this game into some really irrational actions.
Amazing really that they even give a crap what me, Harlien, Bitey, Grunch, Shrubber, WowisLeet, Arcarius and a few I havnt mentioned think. In fact im flattered.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
I love Stratics, if I want info on a particular MMOG this is always where ill go first. Some great peopl in their communities too. But, they dont have Mounring as an extenision of their site.
I don't see how anyone can applaud an immature and childish move... maybe it is for the best, im begining to feel that way on the posts ive seen here. some of you truly enjoy spitting out garbage lol.
First, there are very, very, very few unbiased sources of information. Each media outlet has an editorial staff which fixes policy that governs how news is handled. That is not an opinion, that is fact gleaned from many years as a journalist.
MMORPG.com is a subjective site, full of subjective opinions driven by fans who are very much biased, and not above subjecting others to forms of bashing that we would get irate about should any one of our children (for those who have them) be subjected to such treatment in school. Flaming is humanity at its worst.
That this has delved into a MMORPG said/Mourning devs said is sad. MMORPG made a decision. Apparently the developers at Mourning arrived at the same decision. The timing does not matter. What does matter is that a community of gamers is being fragmented over it.
There have been those who have played in Mourning citing an NDA that prohibits them from revealing certain aspects of the game they either like or hate. In the miasma of MMOs out there, and the current trend of many companies rushing to make them, it is likely that any MMO in development will have aspects that some players will like and others will hate. I'm personally not going to think one way or the other about any game until I get a hands-on look at it. Yes, I belong to a small clan that is looking for a home, and has yet to find one that incorporates all of the elements they are searching for in a game. And because of the nature of my job, I get to look at a lot of MMOs, many in development. Mourning is not one of them, at this point, though I would like to see it eventually. It is at that time that I will make up my mind whether the game is any good or not, from my personal perspective.
Games are voted for with dollars. Those that are not very good fall by the wayside quickly. Developers have expectations and know what is needed in a community base to make their project financially feasible. No one sets out to make a game that is not good and won't draw players.
So, MMORPG had some issues with the representatives from a game, and made a business decision. That is their right and prerogative. As others have stated, it is their site. I personally think this site does a fine job of keeping people informed. And also note that rather than just sweeping the game in question under the rug, they actually announced what they were doing and asked the readers of this site to comment on it.
Those of you who think MMORPG is going to suffer from this ...DREAM ON...., Their web site, their choice, you don't like it, change the channel, move on, let the more intelligent gamer come here.
What is more childish? Asking for your game to be removed from one of the largest MMORPG sites on the internet? Or lying about it after it gets removed because of your actions? They are either liars or idiots over at Mourning, and we don't need another game being run by liars and idiots as there are plenty out there already.
Clearly the Mourning developers are lying. If events are as they say: "we asked MMORPG.COM o remove any and all reference to us (paraphrased),"
Why oh WHY would they provide a link in essence CREATING a reference to themselves?
Obviously, They were removed because of poor business conduct and had to save face... But as with most lies any examination of them produces cracks.
If it was their intent to not be advertised on this site they would not encourage members to post here. I am astounded that they would outright lie. Astounded but not suprised.
People look to mmorpg.com to be a complete listing of mmo's ont he market, and coming to the market. I understand their problems with the company making mourning and I also agree with their choice not to advertise it at all, I just think they are taking it to one extreme that will hurt them instead.
If they are so deeply offended I think they should perhaps take down the forum and stop updating the news on the game but to take it off the listing looks bad for them. It makes them look like a less complete listing.
For each game there are dozens of sites peopel can go to for the information they need but the sites that are huge are the ones that have a full range of knowledge. In the same way I think mmorpg.com should have a complete listing, even if it doesnt stay current on the news.
Rkalia - Rabbi - Drakex
First off I would like to clarify that I am the real person registered on the mourning forums as JulieBlue.
I was assigned to write a review on Mourning, after some personal informal interviews with dev staff, I stepped back from the project and went to my editor with what I had witnessed and the inside information I had learned. We mututally agreeded to sit on the information we had, delay the review, and adopt a policy of wait and see. It was our decision that too many small game developers and potentially promising games had been waylaid and invariably damaged by hasty reviews, and emotional impressions. We thought thru our decision carefully and realized we, as game reviewers, and entertainment media have an obligation not only to the people who play the games, but to the people that make them as well. With our rights, come our responsibility, to fairly, and accurately, and impartially REVIEW the GAME! We as game reviewers are not there to review the people who make the games, the frustrations they face, the delays they experiences, the development and funding issues they incur. We are there to REVIEW the GAME.
I let myself get sucked into the emotions, both of my fellow gamers, as well as the development staff of the game. Having been a game developer, I could relate to the chaos of emotions that the Mourning staff is experiencing, that EVERY game development staff experiences. I tried to give comfort and advice no a young unproven inexperienced team and in so doing I became emotionally involved and lost my impartiality. For this I do deeply apologize, to my readers, my editor, my magazine, and most importantly to the the wonderful young men at mourning who let down thier walls, opened thier hearts, and trusted me way more than is ever healthy when dealing with the press. There is a reason why women are being hired to do these interviews guys, I hope you learned that.
To the issue at hand, personally both sides are wrong here, and this whole thing is way out of line.
I would just like to point out a few things everyone seems so quick to overlook.
1) COMMUNICATION #1) In this situation alone we are dealing with three cultures, with 2 or three diferent languages. English is not native for these guys, and alot of what they do say, is not always what they meant to say. Should they hire a PR/CS staff fluent in english and trained to deal with the public and spin the game? Considering the limited community that has always supported this game is primarily english speaking ~ shrug ~, would have been at the top of my list. This was a mistake on thier part, and lets just say the young lady they did hire who claimed to be fluent in english, lied on her application.
2)BUDGET #2)This game is privately funded by a single individual that had a dream. A gamer, that was tired of complaining about what others were doing wrong, so decided to put up or shut up. This individual should be appluded by the industry, not crucified. Three years past target, and well over budget, this young man has leveraged himself up over his eyeballs to keep this game alive, and keep it in development until IT IS READY! Unlike EVERY game that has come before, that rushed to meet a release date, and shipped out the door buggy and unfinished, this game has been held back and polished and polished again. Is any MMO ever finished? No, but the example being made here should be recognized, and adapted as the rule, not the exception. Do games have to release full of known bugs? No, and mourning is working to prove that.
3)IMPOSTERS #3)There are a ton of imposters on MMORPG, not just on the forums but sending email as well. I know this from personal experience as I have my own imposter here who has even gone so far as to email my magazine claiming to be me, and trying to pass off a phony game review.
4)EMOTIONS #4)Many games in development have pulled the plug over the past year which has led to a hostile enviroment, both in the gaming community, as well as the gaming industry. There is alot of fear and anger out there right now, and it has created an enviroment that some troublesome individuals seem to thrive in. Rumoring is running rampant unchecked, and the practice of flameing has progressed to pure hate posts. Boredom plays a big part in this as there aren't any new games that hold gamers attention for more than a week or two at most. The industry is stale, and has become stepford cloned games, that has left the average gamer feeling bored and often times ripped-off.
This list could go on and on, there are endless contributing factors, to all the problems we all face both here in our escape world, and out there in our real world. The world's not happy, the planet's not happy, and we aren't happy.
The best advice I can give,
remember on the other end of that keyboard is another real person, with real feelings, real emotions, and real worries of thier own. Offer love instead of anger, tolerance instead of judgement, and peace instead of war. What you give will come back to you, and maybe, just maybe our lives may be just a little better for it.
Love Luck and Lollipops
Julianne Elizabeth Wilde
Flowerchild, Mother, Wife, and Friend
This is what this all comes down to.. Your job Admin, is not to "send" anyone anywhere. Your job is to inform, and let people go where they wish. On the same point, your job is not to stop or hinder people to go anywhere either.
That's the most important reason why Mourning should not have been removed. Press ethics.
There is something called press ethics. Whatever you call MMORPG.com it's obviously widely viewed as the customers main MMO-news site. Strict press ethics is the only way you can keep from becoming corrupted over time, when offering this kind of services. What you've done here is a step on such a path. I would urge you to plan your site-policy for the long term, Admin.
You have probably done this with the best of intentions of course. I can easily see how the behavior of the Mourning staff would be offensive. I can also see how you might have thouht this move would be good in making the statement "behave" to every potential miscreant.
But did you consider what this would do for your credibility? It took but a few dis-satisfied forum-trollers to create the first landslide of Mourning dis-creditation a few months ago. So even though most people just shrug or say "good riddance" when recieving the news of Mournings removal, it doesen't really take all that many people pointing out the true downsides to this decision (press ethics) to really hurt MMORPG.com's credibility.
There is a multitude of reasons why a site such as yours would make such a move, many of which are very bad indeed.
You could be on the payroll of a competitor of Mourning being paid to discredit it for example. While I don't particulary belive such is the case here, the possability in itself strongly suggest you shouldn't have done this. Also, while I don't particulary belive that you are taking money for discrediting Mourning, many things suggest to its probability.
First off you're in this for the money (or so all the adds imply). You'd have to make this a rare event to remain credability (and thus stay on the payroll). Mourning is a perfect target because it has severely bad underground reputation (many people would just be glad hearing someone is fighting back against the terrible community abusers), and as such no suspicion would be considered. Mourning has some new unique features and possably a combat system to ravish the best of them, potentially making them a very dangerous competition to the big boys (whom would be your true employer, and whom would have insiders in Mourning).
Another example could be Admin on a powertrip, using your media-power to manipulating the market forces for whatever reason.
Historically such media abuse where pretty common before press ethics became enforced.
As such it is highly probable such is the case here as well, however sympathetic you may seem Admin. It's simply part of human nature.
Again, true or not, such possabilities are a big reason press ethics is so important for credability. While you may call your site "promotional" instead of "news" there is no doubt you are a major (maybe the biggest, I don't know) MMORPG media site.
Ok this is what ive learned.
Some potential players went to mourning.com and brought the "bnet kiddie" attitude which has been banned from mourning. They got permanently kicked off the site, got upset and began to tell their friends to go to the site and flame it, which they did. Some people began accusing mourning of beinga scam and all sorts of rumors started to surface, the devs attempted to address the issue pointed out some facts but the Evil that is "bnet kiddies" endured and continued their bashing, finally it seemed that the mods had gotten control of the the people involved and got them off the site. The site went back to what was important and everyone began anticipating the game.
A few unfortunate incidents however prompted some more speculation and the return of the Evil "bnet kiddies" who began some more flames and attempted to spread some fires. though they could not do it on the Mourning website as they had been banned they came here to a free reign of terror. The "bnet Kiddies" ranted with absalute nonesense about the events that happend at mourning.com, they spread there venom to the boards of mmorpg.com untill finally the mourning team could take no more... and through poor judgement and im sure blinding rage threatened some of the Evil "bnet Kiddies" with legal actions.
Nnow this of course is completley uncalled for on the MMORPG website, the mourning staff have tried repetedley to contact the MMORPG website in hope to moderate people flaming there company name and game image, but to no success. This prompted some anger between MMORPG and Mourning, through some rash descisions and due to unfortunate Evil "bnet kiddie" influence, mourning was removed from from mmorpg.com.
The bnet kiddies are coming... lock your doors.... hide your children.... get large explosives... no mmo is safe.
the fact that due to influence of these kids, they where able to manipulate both mmorpg and mourning into doing some pretty dumb things is a sad blow to mmorpg's everywhere....
Don't believe me, do a little research, read some of the posts of these guys. Its absalutley insane what they are claiming. And the level of insults and discrediting of the game Mourning is incredible. It really should have been delt with by the MMORPG admins, but agani due to some poor judgement calls on both sides i think some bridges where burned.
I just hope the both of them can work it out, its truly a sad blow to the mmo community as a whole.
Well apparently people that have accounts here for a entire year but dont post until now(!?) expect a complete listning, othervise you people must be psychic to be able to speak for "all" people.
If a dev/publisher for a game goes to a third party forum & starts yelling "Ill sue" when somebody posts something negative (real or not doesnt matter) thats a good indicator that something is fubar. There is always nonsense/rumors/hype in any forum because of the whole "express your opinion.
Mmorpg.com can remove every game of the listning except WoW & EQII if they want since its a private business (why I choose these 2 for example is becuase they both have HUGE companys behind them). If you think thats bad business, well so be it.
aww, people flame games all the time..I don't see other companies threatening legal action and going around trying to tell other sites to moderate bad comments towards their game...its gestapo tactics and ridiculous
MMORPG is a site I go to see different games and their information. If a game is out and about, I usually can find some blurb of it here.
Granted, you as admin and those that run these boards may not care for the attitude expressed by those from the Mourning boards, and vice versa; however, I think you do yourself a disservice by putting yourself now in a position of saying "we cannot" in reference to anything representing Mourning. It is a double edged sword you cast yourself upon. Taking a stand against them in what you perceive to be your "justice" and casting credibility upon yourself (MMORPG) as a site to get the unbiased news about games.
Granted, not all the games you have listed here have their own forums. So, that can be let go.
What you did do, in my opinion only, was you allowed yourself to be manipulated in to doing exactly what they wanted at Mourning. They could not control what is said here. You provided that for them.
I hope you reconsider your position, but your boards your call
One player's great game is another players derisive snort!
http://www.darthmyr.com for free guild forums
You're funny, Fidus.
As one of those people you're labeling as a 'bnet kiddie,' I am no such thing.
I was a fan of the game. I've been following the game since July 04. I saw flaws in their public relations. I was thoughtful, and I was productive... I wrote a post about it:
http://www.realmsoftorment.net/forums/showthread.php3?s=8afce40e30a9baac4f79dd9be2805e21&threadid=17386
Shortly after, I realized Mourning was beyond saving. In your entire post, you did not ONCE allude to exactly what it was the Mourning devs did to prompt all of this. You have obviously 'learned' everything from a very biased informant. Are you even aware of the events surrounding the spring ban fest? That is essentially the straw that broke the camels back, and that same night I went into their chat to challenge their manuevering where that was concerned - I was kicked from the chat, and within the hour I came here to make my first posts on the Mourning boards informing everyone what had happened. It all went downhill from there for Mourning.
We are not random people that came out of no where with the intention of sinking this game. We were once fans, who became disillusioned after having witnessed mistake after mistake on their part. Do you think ANY of this would have happened if we were random 'bnet kiddies' with no grounded complaints against the Mourning team? It happened for a reason. If the Mourning team was not guilty of such poor social skills, we would have been kicked out on our asses and laughed at. Instead, people saw the truth in what we were saying and it culminated from there.
If Mourning make it past Beta, I am sure it will be in the list, but to actually have a forum is a privilege at the solo discretion of the MMORPG.com staff.
Until they make it past beta, look like a dead horse to me.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren