I don't know how the rest of the thread has gone, but I can say that it makes no sense to play an MMO unless you group up with someone. It makes literally no sense.
I don't know how the rest of the thread has gone, but I can say that it makes no sense to play an MMO unless you group up with someone. It makes literally no sense.
MMORPG stand For Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
So I guess your right, it would be called a MSORPG (Massive Single Player Online Role Playing Game.)
Reasons of why to play them your asking?
No inflation.
No player killing.
Sight seeing break with friends online after a long single player battle.
Less negativity
No loot stealers
Don't have to worry about a person doing something not bright in a dungeon.
No recycling of players until the game dies. (I made a couple of posts about this Player leaving Tree.)
Don't have to worry about your class being nerfed as much.
Don't have to worry about classes being overpowered as much.
Don't have to worry about skills being overpowered or nerfed as much.
Don't have to worry about NOT being accepted into parties. (Made a post about this as well.)
Also note that it's single player until you enter a town/city which means:
Houses
NPC Merchants
Etc.
(Still can't group outside the city/town is the only bad part. That makes me wonder if they can add stuff for people to do together in town to make up for it.)
Edit: MSORPG... That shouldn't be the name for it if town/city grouping is possible.
MLMORPG
Massive Limited Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game? :[?
I don't know how the rest of the thread has gone, but I can say that it makes no sense to play an MMO unless you group up with someone. It makes literally no sense.
MMORPG stand For Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
So I guess your right, it would be called a MSORPG (Massive Single Player Online Role Playing Game.)
Reasons of why to play them your asking?
No inflation.
No player killing.
Sight seeing break with friends online after a long single player battle.
Less negativity
No loot stealers
Don't have to worry about a person doing something not bright in a dungeon.
No recycling of players until the game dies. (I made a couple of posts about this Player leaving Tree.)
Don't have to worry about your class being nerfed as much.
Don't have to worry about classes being overpowered as much.
Don't have to worry about skills being overpowered or nerfed as much.
Don't have to worry about NOT being accepted into parties. (Made a post about this as well.)
Also note that it's single player until you enter a town/city which means:
Houses
NPC Merchants
Etc.
(Still can't group outside the city/town is the only bad part. That makes me wonder if they can add stuff for people to do together in town to make up for it.)
Edit: MSORPG... That shouldn't be the name for it if town/city grouping is possible.
MLMORPG
Massive Limited Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game? :[?
It's not a Massively Group-player Online RPG.
Massively Multiplayer means there are many players playing in a persistant world. Grouping is nothing more than a feature in MMO. I understand and respect that a lot of you feel like it is an important feature but it is not necessary to be considered a multiplayer. You could have a MMO that had no combat, no grouping and focused on building communities - like towns, cities, governments, crafting, and store fronts.
I don't know how the rest of the thread has gone, but I can say that it makes no sense to play an MMO unless you group up with someone. It makes literally no sense.
No, it makes no sense TO YOU. Luckily, there are lots of other people it makes perfect sense to.
Due to time constraints I usually solo, however the one perspective in this debate that I think is the root cause of the friction is the subset of solo-players who think that there should be no rewards or content that group-play can achieve or access that solo-play can't achieve.
And even though I'm primarily a solo-er, I think that idea is ridiculous.
+++
I love soloing. When I was in Everquest II, I soloed a lot (Even my brother did). We didn't care how long it took in the end of playing the game since it was fun. (Even with the dying, somehow...) Everquest II was probally the worst idea to do solo on but it was possible somehow. In the end though, I'd prob end up dying more than I gained in end game solo. (I was young and didn't care about exp at the time, look at me now. ) :[
Edit: First MMORPG I played, Probally the most wanted MMORPG I want to play again. I just have college to deal with now so I don't have time for that anymore.
Are you guys just too casual to level up their character to max. Because once you reach endgame all the contents require you to do in group.
This is a bit of a confused thing about modern MMO's. They let you spend the entire time levelling as a solo experience then turn the game into group only when you reach cap. So for people who like to group they have to play through a solo game, which is something they don't really want to do, to be able to enjoy the aspect of the game they like. Meanwhile, the soloers have a great time levelling up then have nothing to do except make an alt and start all over again.
So after thinking about it, we need to have games focused at one side or the other. Either make a game all about grouping or all about soloing, mixing the two always leaves half the population unhappy.
It is fun sometimes if you are playing with other peoplesl ike your friend. But I dont like it when somebody doesnt say anything first and only send me to team invite. That is kind of creepy. And yesterday i was playing with somebody for 5 minutes and he didnt say anything even when i ask him questions. That is really creepy!
Originally posted by UsualSuspect Are you guys just too casual to level up their character to max. Because once you reach endgame all the contents require you to do in group. This is a bit of a confused thing about modern MMO's. They let you spend the entire time levelling as a solo experience then turn the game into group only when you reach cap. So for people who like to group they have to play through a solo game, which is something they don't really want to do, to be able to enjoy the aspect of the game they like. Meanwhile, the soloers have a great time levelling up then have nothing to do except make an alt and start all over again. So after thinking about it, we need to have games focused at one side or the other. Either make a game all about grouping or all about soloing, mixing the two always leaves half the population unhappy.
Exactly, and there is no harm in having solo-centric and group-centric games in the market. People can play the one that best suits them.
I dont' look at it that way. The majority of players arn't extreme groupie or soloer.
They are a mix. They are people who enjoy doing both, or don't care either. But that's only my personal opinion.
And I dont' think it take all that long to hit the max cap in most of the MMO's today anyway. So I have no idea why all the exrtreme groupie are complaining.
And instead of making a solo only or group only games. It's best to have a game that have enough of both.
I dont' look at it that way. The majority of players arn't extreme groupie or soloer.
They are a mix. They are people who enjoy doing both, or don't care either. But that's only my personal opinion.
And I dont' think it take all that long to hit the max cap in most of the MMO's today anyway. So I have no idea why all the exrtreme groupie are complaining.
And instead of making a solo only or group only games. It's best to have a game that have enough of both.
They are complaining because we are ALLOWED to solo. They're not happy unless everyone is forced to group with them. The solo players are happy with everyone getting to choose how to play, but that's not good enough for them.
They are complaining because we are ALLOWED to solo. They're not happy unless everyone is forced to group with them. The solo players are happy with everyone getting to choose how to play, but that's not good enough for them.
No no, we complain because we have no real incentive to group. All modern MMO's make the solo choice the much better one for levelling, especially considering that they all have quest chains which makes it increasingly hard to gather groups even if you wanted to. Person X is on a quest 2 steps ahead of Person Y, so they'll never group together.
I don't think anyone wants to rule out soloing altogether, it's nice for when you just want to bash a few orcs or only have a little while online. But it seems modern MMO's have ruled out grouping as an option until the end game.
grouping was best done in maplestory pq were group only and everything else was choice if you wanna pq everyone gathers by the pq spot and you group there(havnt seen that in any other game to date) and by everyone i mean everyone looking to join and recruit just gathered by the pq place and thats where everyone set up their partys except kerning city in kerning city they gather to pq and to sell you stuff(not gold spamming just regular players selling/buying stuff like fame and items) but thats the only exception ive seen but the maplestory system works for me never played any game that got it done so well before in my entire life and i am convinced that i never will
devilkingx - the best thing since ice cream(which was the best thing evar made evar)
They are complaining because we are ALLOWED to solo. They're not happy unless everyone is forced to group with them. The solo players are happy with everyone getting to choose how to play, but that's not good enough for them.
No no, we complain because we have no real incentive to group. All modern MMO's make the solo choice the much better one for levelling, especially considering that they all have quest chains which makes it increasingly hard to gather groups even if you wanted to. Person X is on a quest 2 steps ahead of Person Y, so they'll never group together.
I don't think anyone wants to rule out soloing altogether, it's nice for when you just want to bash a few orcs or only have a little while online. But it seems modern MMO's have ruled out grouping as an option until the end game.
Every game on the market rewards groupers far far more than soloers. They get xp much much faster, they get much better loot and much better coin.
And yet despite all this, groupers still say they have no incentive. What more can they give you.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Every game on the market rewards groupers far far more than soloers. They get xp much much faster, they get much better loot and much better coin.
Not true. Almost every current MMO I can think of give equal rewards regardless of what you're doing, as the whole 'grinding mobs' thing has disappeared. Everyone gets rewarded from a quest giver now, so everyone gets the same thing regardless. The only time groupers get better loot is in end game, where dungeons and raiding start to take over.
As for coin, the cash is usually split between the number of people in the group, so with a group of six you would need to kill six times the number of mobs to get equal cash to a soloer. Also xp tends to be split in a similar way, with the only advantage being that a group can kill mobs much faster.
The incentive does need to be there for groupers, otherwise people will solo. It's the way people are designed. Let's say you have to go to work in the morning. It's a quick walk, about a mile, do you:
a) Walk alone or;
b) Wait on five friends to turn up, hang around for them to clean the dishes, put the cat out, eat a pizza, stop to talk to someone along the way, watch a friend run off alone so call another friend and wait for them, eventually take the walk together then stop half way because one of them left something at home.
The task is an easy one you can do alone and option 1 is the path of least resistance. Chances are, everyone will take that option. That's how it is with games that can be played solo. The tasks are so easy it just seems ridiculous to gather a group, there is no point, so people will do it alone. That's why you tend not to see groups until the end game in modern MMO's.
Every game on the market rewards groupers far far more than soloers. They get xp much much faster, they get much better loot and much better coin.
Not true. Almost every current MMO I can think of give equal rewards regardless of what you're doing, as the whole 'grinding mobs' thing has disappeared. Everyone gets rewarded from a quest giver now, so everyone gets the same thing regardless. The only time groupers get better loot is in end game, where dungeons and raiding start to take over.
No the best rewards are for dungeons and raids and harder content which means a group. This is done during the leveling process and at end game. So groupers always have the opportunity for better loot than soloers
As for coin, the cash is usually split between the number of people in the group, so with a group of six you would need to kill six times the number of mobs to get equal cash to a soloer. Also xp tends to be split in a similar way, with the only advantage being that a group can kill mobs much faster.
Harder mobs means better loot and more coin, and the better loot can be sold for more coin as well. Harder mobs are in dungeons, raids and higher content which means it favours groupers, not soloers. The group killing mobs much faster is a big advantage. In a group of 5 the xp is not split 5 ways in any game. Yes it is split but not by a margin = to the number of players. So harder mobs = more loot and more coin and more xp; killing mobs faster = more loot and more coin and more xp.
The incentive does need to be there for groupers, otherwise people will solo. It's the way people are designed. Let's say you have to go to work in the morning. It's a quick walk, about a mile, do you:
I have no problem with more being incentive for grouping. The issue is groupers are rewarded far more than soloers at every point and still say they have no incentive, when they have all incentives the best xp, money, and loot
a) Walk alone or;
b) Wait on five friends to turn up, hang around for them to clean the dishes, put the cat out, eat a pizza, stop to talk to someone along the way, watch a friend run off alone so call another friend and wait for them, eventually take the walk together then stop half way because one of them left something at home.
In many games today, it doesnt' take very much time to form a group at all. Even with WoW with the new Dungeon finger, you can get a group within 5 minutes. So the time factor for group vs solo is largely gone now.
The task is an easy one you can do alone and option 1 is the path of least resistance. Chances are, everyone will take that option. That's how it is with games that can be played solo. The tasks are so easy it just seems ridiculous to gather a group, there is no point, so people will do it alone. That's why you tend not to see groups until the end game in modern MMO's.
And yet groupers still have lots of incentives but complain they don't.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No the best rewards are for dungeons and raids and harder content which means a group. This is done during the leveling process and at end game. So groupers always have the opportunity for better loot than soloers
I don't know which game you've been playing, but please tell me as all the modern MMO's I've played have very little group content until the end game. LOTRO for example has one or two group locations per 'area', and really, the loot there isn't any better than just ignoring the place and advancing to the next quest area. That's the problem I find with these 'quest games', that the items you get will be quickly replaced as you advance a few quests down the line.
Harder mobs means better loot and more coin, and the better loot can be sold for more coin as well. Harder mobs are in dungeons, raids and higher content which means it favours groupers, not soloers.
Again, which game are you playing? There are harder mobs in LOTRO, which I'm using as an example for this post, such as the elites in those rare group areas, but they never have better loot or coin. The whole reason to go through them is just to be able to complete a quest and get an item that'll be replaced in 5 levels, which, unless you're a completist like me, makes the whole experience rather pointless.
I have no problem with more being incentive for grouping. The issue is groupers are rewarded far more than soloers at every point and still say they have no incentive, when they have all incentives the best xp, money, and loot
The only place I can see where groupers are rewarded more than soloers is at end game with raids, which is fair enough. It takes a lot of people, is harder to do, and not everyone gets something, so it should be better rewarded than soloing.
In many games today, it doesnt' take very much time to form a group at all.
Finding a group and making it active are two very different things. Though my point wasn't about the time to set up, more that it's a whole lot more to deal with when you could just run the thing yourself with less hassle.
Almost every MMO game I have ever played EQ, EQ2, CoH/V, WoW, Ryzom, Istaria, Fallen earth (to some extent in fallen earth anyway). And probably many more that I can't even remember.
Group content can be as simple as going after the next tier/level mob that a solo player couldn't take down without help - which is exactly what we did for too many hours on end in EQ when we weren't running dungeons. We're all lvl 20 we can't kill that lvl 25-30 mob on our own but in a group we can, we now have group content. Not too mention all the dungeons that exist in many games as your leveling.
In every single one of those games harder mobs give better loot, more xp, and more coin As such if you get a group together and take down those harder mobs you are getting the rewards sooner and faster than a solo player that has to wait until he is level/stat appropriate to take them with success.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Almost every MMO game I have ever played EQ, EQ2, CoH/V, WoW, Ryzom, Istaria, Fallen earth (to some extent in fallen earth anyway). And probably many more that I can't even remember.
EverQuest. Ah, yeah, well that's when MMO's were great, I was talking about the modern MMO's which all seem to be single player games with grouping slapped on as an afterthought. The whole quest chain thing is killing grouping, not least because they're allmost all soloable, never mind the "I'm on a different quest so we won't group.." thing.
EQ2 and WoW suffer from the same thing, unless I've missed something about those games. I never really saw any need to group in those games, and I played EQ2 up to about 20th and WoW to 30ish before giving up on them. COX didn't seem to need anything you got as a group - it made the content more exciting but that's about it. The others I have no idea about. I did try the trial of Fallen Earth and it was pig ugly and felt awful to play.
So that leaves us agreeing on EverQuest. But as all games since have been copying the WoW formula, grouping sleeps until end game. If only there were more games like EverQuest.
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
I can only speak for myself, but that the end game is almost all group based is great for me. I wish there were more of it while levelling, but it seems developers are throwing out confused games, as I said in my earlier post. They make the levelling process a solo experience then expect everyone to group and raid. It's quite weird really. They need to make one or the other, or at least combine the two so people are happy the whole game, not just the bits that they prefer.
The problem for me with the levelling thing being primarily solo is that I usually can't be bothered to stick with the games until the end, so again it's a weird thing. People who love to group aren't going to sit through 2 months of solo play to finally be where they want to be, I know I don't. I heard there's a lot of group/raid stuff in WoW but I couldn't stand the solo play and gave up around level 30ish.
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
I can only speak for myself, but that the end game is almost all group based is great for me. I wish there were more of it while levelling, but it seems developers are throwing out confused games, as I said in my earlier post. They make the levelling process a solo experience then expect everyone to group and raid. It's quite weird really. They need to make one or the other, or at least combine the two so people are happy the whole game, not just the bits that they prefer.
The problem for me with the levelling thing being primarily solo is that I usually can't be bothered to stick with the games until the end, so again it's a weird thing. People who love to group aren't going to sit through 2 months of solo play to finally be where they want to be, I know I don't. I heard there's a lot of group/raid stuff in WoW but I couldn't stand the solo play and gave up around level 30ish.
Whereas I have the opposite problem, I enjoy a game until the end. And then, just when I get to the so-called "best" content, I'm forced to group to do it. It's a horrible bait and switch that at least some MMOs must get rid of. Almost every MMO I've quit I've done so for this reason.
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
I can only speak for myself, but that the end game is almost all group based is great for me. I wish there were more of it while levelling, but it seems developers are throwing out confused games, as I said in my earlier post. They make the levelling process a solo experience then expect everyone to group and raid. It's quite weird really. They need to make one or the other, or at least combine the two so people are happy the whole game, not just the bits that they prefer.
The problem for me with the levelling thing being primarily solo is that I usually can't be bothered to stick with the games until the end, so again it's a weird thing. People who love to group aren't going to sit through 2 months of solo play to finally be where they want to be, I know I don't. I heard there's a lot of group/raid stuff in WoW but I couldn't stand the solo play and gave up around level 30ish.
Whereas I have the opposite problem, I enjoy a game until the end. And then, just when I get to the so-called "best" content, I'm forced to group to do it. It's a horrible bait and switch that at least some MMOs must get rid of. Almost every MMO I've quit I've done so for this reason.
you like solo a little too much the only reason i dont group is because its a hassle to find people to group with(except in maplestory as mentioned before by me) but you quit a game just because you have to group? antisocial much?
devilkingx - the best thing since ice cream(which was the best thing evar made evar)
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
I can only speak for myself, but that the end game is almost all group based is great for me. I wish there were more of it while levelling, but it seems developers are throwing out confused games, as I said in my earlier post. They make the levelling process a solo experience then expect everyone to group and raid. It's quite weird really. They need to make one or the other, or at least combine the two so people are happy the whole game, not just the bits that they prefer.
The problem for me with the levelling thing being primarily solo is that I usually can't be bothered to stick with the games until the end, so again it's a weird thing. People who love to group aren't going to sit through 2 months of solo play to finally be where they want to be, I know I don't. I heard there's a lot of group/raid stuff in WoW but I couldn't stand the solo play and gave up around level 30ish.
Whereas I have the opposite problem, I enjoy a game until the end. And then, just when I get to the so-called "best" content, I'm forced to group to do it. It's a horrible bait and switch that at least some MMOs must get rid of. Almost every MMO I've quit I've done so for this reason.
you like solo a little too much the only reason i dont group is because its a hassle to find people to group with(except in maplestory as mentioned before by me) but you quit a game just because you have to group? antisocial much?
When you reach the end and the only content requies you to group up, it really limits your options. Personally I think it's a weak way to design a game, a cheap way to get away with having no real content.
Whereas I have the opposite problem, I enjoy a game until the end. And then, just when I get to the so-called "best" content, I'm forced to group to do it. It's a horrible bait and switch that at least some MMOs must get rid of. Almost every MMO I've quit I've done so for this reason.
you like solo a little too much the only reason i dont group is because its a hassle to find people to group with(except in maplestory as mentioned before by me) but you quit a game just because you have to group? antisocial much?
Yes, I quit games if they force me to group at endgame. I think it's simply poor design for an MMO to allow a player to solo to the end of a game and then require that person to group up to continue advancing/improving his character. For example, I quit Wow after 4 years with 8 maxed characters. While I had done some raiding, I found it long, dull and rarely rewarding.
I do enjoy grouping from time to time. What I hate, is being required to just to experience content. I can accept that there is some content designed for groups, and that's fine. But when all meaningful endgame content is group only, yeah it bugs the hell outta me, especially in a game that allowed me to solo to that point.
It has nothing to do with being antisocial. It's anti-inconvenience. I want to, that is to say, I really enjoy playing at my own pace. That means, stopping or pushing on when I want to. It means not having to wait for 5 or 7 or 24 others to get there and get ready. You can call it selfish if you want but I am the one paying for my playtime, so I think it's reasonable to want to spend it as I see fit. If I feel like playing, I don't want to spend that time waiting around for others. So it's not really a question of not wanting to play with others, but unless you can convince those others to be ready when I am, and ready to take breaks when I am, I'll continue to seek out soloable content.
Comments
I don't know how the rest of the thread has gone, but I can say that it makes no sense to play an MMO unless you group up with someone. It makes literally no sense.
MMORPG stand For Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
So I guess your right, it would be called a MSORPG (Massive Single Player Online Role Playing Game.)
Reasons of why to play them your asking?
No inflation.
No player killing.
Sight seeing break with friends online after a long single player battle.
Less negativity
No loot stealers
Don't have to worry about a person doing something not bright in a dungeon.
No recycling of players until the game dies. (I made a couple of posts about this Player leaving Tree.)
Don't have to worry about your class being nerfed as much.
Don't have to worry about classes being overpowered as much.
Don't have to worry about skills being overpowered or nerfed as much.
Don't have to worry about NOT being accepted into parties. (Made a post about this as well.)
Also note that it's single player until you enter a town/city which means:
Houses
NPC Merchants
Etc.
(Still can't group outside the city/town is the only bad part. That makes me wonder if they can add stuff for people to do together in town to make up for it.)
Edit: MSORPG... That shouldn't be the name for it if town/city grouping is possible.
MLMORPG
Massive Limited Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game? :[?
It's not a Massively Group-player Online RPG.
Massively Multiplayer means there are many players playing in a persistant world. Grouping is nothing more than a feature in MMO. I understand and respect that a lot of you feel like it is an important feature but it is not necessary to be considered a multiplayer. You could have a MMO that had no combat, no grouping and focused on building communities - like towns, cities, governments, crafting, and store fronts.
No, it makes no sense TO YOU. Luckily, there are lots of other people it makes perfect sense to.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
+++
I love soloing. When I was in Everquest II, I soloed a lot (Even my brother did). We didn't care how long it took in the end of playing the game since it was fun. (Even with the dying, somehow...) Everquest II was probally the worst idea to do solo on but it was possible somehow. In the end though, I'd prob end up dying more than I gained in end game solo. (I was young and didn't care about exp at the time, look at me now.
) :[
Edit: First MMORPG I played, Probally the most wanted MMORPG I want to play again. I just have college to deal with now so I don't have time for that anymore.
I dont' understand the complaint from group player.
Are you guys just too casual to level up their character to max. Because once you reach endgame all the contents require you to do in group.
It's funny when someone called wow a solo focus game when almost all my online time are spend in a group.
Are you guys just too casual to level up their character to max. Because once you reach endgame all the contents require you to do in group.
This is a bit of a confused thing about modern MMO's. They let you spend the entire time levelling as a solo experience then turn the game into group only when you reach cap. So for people who like to group they have to play through a solo game, which is something they don't really want to do, to be able to enjoy the aspect of the game they like. Meanwhile, the soloers have a great time levelling up then have nothing to do except make an alt and start all over again.
So after thinking about it, we need to have games focused at one side or the other. Either make a game all about grouping or all about soloing, mixing the two always leaves half the population unhappy.
It is fun sometimes if you are playing with other peoplesl ike your friend. But I dont like it when somebody doesnt say anything first and only send me to team invite. That is kind of creepy. And yesterday i was playing with somebody for 5 minutes and he didnt say anything even when i ask him questions. That is really creepy!
Exactly, and there is no harm in having solo-centric and group-centric games in the market. People can play the one that best suits them.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
I dont' look at it that way. The majority of players arn't extreme groupie or soloer.
They are a mix. They are people who enjoy doing both, or don't care either. But that's only my personal opinion.
And I dont' think it take all that long to hit the max cap in most of the MMO's today anyway. So I have no idea why all the exrtreme groupie are complaining.
And instead of making a solo only or group only games. It's best to have a game that have enough of both.
They are complaining because we are ALLOWED to solo. They're not happy unless everyone is forced to group with them. The solo players are happy with everyone getting to choose how to play, but that's not good enough for them.
They are complaining because we are ALLOWED to solo. They're not happy unless everyone is forced to group with them. The solo players are happy with everyone getting to choose how to play, but that's not good enough for them.
No no, we complain because we have no real incentive to group. All modern MMO's make the solo choice the much better one for levelling, especially considering that they all have quest chains which makes it increasingly hard to gather groups even if you wanted to. Person X is on a quest 2 steps ahead of Person Y, so they'll never group together.
I don't think anyone wants to rule out soloing altogether, it's nice for when you just want to bash a few orcs or only have a little while online. But it seems modern MMO's have ruled out grouping as an option until the end game.
grouping was best done in maplestory pq were group only and everything else was choice if you wanna pq everyone gathers by the pq spot and you group there(havnt seen that in any other game to date) and by everyone i mean everyone looking to join and recruit just gathered by the pq place and thats where everyone set up their partys except kerning city in kerning city they gather to pq and to sell you stuff(not gold spamming just regular players selling/buying stuff like fame and items) but thats the only exception ive seen but the maplestory system works for me never played any game that got it done so well before in my entire life and i am convinced that i never will
devilkingx - the best thing since ice cream(which was the best thing evar made evar)
Every game on the market rewards groupers far far more than soloers. They get xp much much faster, they get much better loot and much better coin.
And yet despite all this, groupers still say they have no incentive. What more can they give you.
Venge Sunsoar
Every game on the market rewards groupers far far more than soloers. They get xp much much faster, they get much better loot and much better coin.
Not true. Almost every current MMO I can think of give equal rewards regardless of what you're doing, as the whole 'grinding mobs' thing has disappeared. Everyone gets rewarded from a quest giver now, so everyone gets the same thing regardless. The only time groupers get better loot is in end game, where dungeons and raiding start to take over.
As for coin, the cash is usually split between the number of people in the group, so with a group of six you would need to kill six times the number of mobs to get equal cash to a soloer. Also xp tends to be split in a similar way, with the only advantage being that a group can kill mobs much faster.
The incentive does need to be there for groupers, otherwise people will solo. It's the way people are designed. Let's say you have to go to work in the morning. It's a quick walk, about a mile, do you:
a) Walk alone or;
b) Wait on five friends to turn up, hang around for them to clean the dishes, put the cat out, eat a pizza, stop to talk to someone along the way, watch a friend run off alone so call another friend and wait for them, eventually take the walk together then stop half way because one of them left something at home.
The task is an easy one you can do alone and option 1 is the path of least resistance. Chances are, everyone will take that option. That's how it is with games that can be played solo. The tasks are so easy it just seems ridiculous to gather a group, there is no point, so people will do it alone. That's why you tend not to see groups until the end game in modern MMO's.
No the best rewards are for dungeons and raids and harder content which means a group. This is done during the leveling process and at end game. So groupers always have the opportunity for better loot than soloers
I don't know which game you've been playing, but please tell me as all the modern MMO's I've played have very little group content until the end game. LOTRO for example has one or two group locations per 'area', and really, the loot there isn't any better than just ignoring the place and advancing to the next quest area. That's the problem I find with these 'quest games', that the items you get will be quickly replaced as you advance a few quests down the line.
Harder mobs means better loot and more coin, and the better loot can be sold for more coin as well. Harder mobs are in dungeons, raids and higher content which means it favours groupers, not soloers.
Again, which game are you playing? There are harder mobs in LOTRO, which I'm using as an example for this post, such as the elites in those rare group areas, but they never have better loot or coin. The whole reason to go through them is just to be able to complete a quest and get an item that'll be replaced in 5 levels, which, unless you're a completist like me, makes the whole experience rather pointless.
I have no problem with more being incentive for grouping. The issue is groupers are rewarded far more than soloers at every point and still say they have no incentive, when they have all incentives the best xp, money, and loot
The only place I can see where groupers are rewarded more than soloers is at end game with raids, which is fair enough. It takes a lot of people, is harder to do, and not everyone gets something, so it should be better rewarded than soloing.
In many games today, it doesnt' take very much time to form a group at all.
Finding a group and making it active are two very different things. Though my point wasn't about the time to set up, more that it's a whole lot more to deal with when you could just run the thing yourself with less hassle.
Almost every MMO game I have ever played EQ, EQ2, CoH/V, WoW, Ryzom, Istaria, Fallen earth (to some extent in fallen earth anyway). And probably many more that I can't even remember.
Group content can be as simple as going after the next tier/level mob that a solo player couldn't take down without help - which is exactly what we did for too many hours on end in EQ when we weren't running dungeons. We're all lvl 20 we can't kill that lvl 25-30 mob on our own but in a group we can, we now have group content. Not too mention all the dungeons that exist in many games as your leveling.
In every single one of those games harder mobs give better loot, more xp, and more coin As such if you get a group together and take down those harder mobs you are getting the rewards sooner and faster than a solo player that has to wait until he is level/stat appropriate to take them with success.
Venge Sunsoar
Almost every MMO game I have ever played EQ, EQ2, CoH/V, WoW, Ryzom, Istaria, Fallen earth (to some extent in fallen earth anyway). And probably many more that I can't even remember.
EverQuest. Ah, yeah, well that's when MMO's were great, I was talking about the modern MMO's which all seem to be single player games with grouping slapped on as an afterthought. The whole quest chain thing is killing grouping, not least because they're allmost all soloable, never mind the "I'm on a different quest so we won't group.." thing.
EQ2 and WoW suffer from the same thing, unless I've missed something about those games. I never really saw any need to group in those games, and I played EQ2 up to about 20th and WoW to 30ish before giving up on them. COX didn't seem to need anything you got as a group - it made the content more exciting but that's about it. The others I have no idea about. I did try the trial of Fallen Earth and it was pig ugly and felt awful to play.
So that leaves us agreeing on EverQuest. But as all games since have been copying the WoW formula, grouping sleeps until end game. If only there were more games like EverQuest.
@above,
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
I always thought groupers would be happy that at the end they ultimately got the last sweet laugh, with the end being group oriented and leaving soloers in the dust. Is that a misconception?
I can only speak for myself, but that the end game is almost all group based is great for me. I wish there were more of it while levelling, but it seems developers are throwing out confused games, as I said in my earlier post. They make the levelling process a solo experience then expect everyone to group and raid. It's quite weird really. They need to make one or the other, or at least combine the two so people are happy the whole game, not just the bits that they prefer.
The problem for me with the levelling thing being primarily solo is that I usually can't be bothered to stick with the games until the end, so again it's a weird thing. People who love to group aren't going to sit through 2 months of solo play to finally be where they want to be, I know I don't. I heard there's a lot of group/raid stuff in WoW but I couldn't stand the solo play and gave up around level 30ish.
Whereas I have the opposite problem, I enjoy a game until the end. And then, just when I get to the so-called "best" content, I'm forced to group to do it. It's a horrible bait and switch that at least some MMOs must get rid of. Almost every MMO I've quit I've done so for this reason.
you like solo a little too much the only reason i dont group is because its a hassle to find people to group with(except in maplestory as mentioned before by me) but you quit a game just because you have to group? antisocial much?
devilkingx - the best thing since ice cream(which was the best thing evar made evar)
When you reach the end and the only content requies you to group up, it really limits your options. Personally I think it's a weak way to design a game, a cheap way to get away with having no real content.
Yes, I quit games if they force me to group at endgame. I think it's simply poor design for an MMO to allow a player to solo to the end of a game and then require that person to group up to continue advancing/improving his character. For example, I quit Wow after 4 years with 8 maxed characters. While I had done some raiding, I found it long, dull and rarely rewarding.
I do enjoy grouping from time to time. What I hate, is being required to just to experience content. I can accept that there is some content designed for groups, and that's fine. But when all meaningful endgame content is group only, yeah it bugs the hell outta me, especially in a game that allowed me to solo to that point.
It has nothing to do with being antisocial. It's anti-inconvenience. I want to, that is to say, I really enjoy playing at my own pace. That means, stopping or pushing on when I want to. It means not having to wait for 5 or 7 or 24 others to get there and get ready. You can call it selfish if you want but I am the one paying for my playtime, so I think it's reasonable to want to spend it as I see fit. If I feel like playing, I don't want to spend that time waiting around for others. So it's not really a question of not wanting to play with others, but unless you can convince those others to be ready when I am, and ready to take breaks when I am, I'll continue to seek out soloable content.