Lol. Sorry, but without proof and some links it sounds like trolling and tinfoil hat territory.
Healthy scepticism or reservedness is always good especially when there's no beta yet to see things in action, but extreme paranoia is just as faulty as extreme fanboism.
Yes it is good to be sceptical of the features, especially with the MMO market. However, ArenaNet has a history on delivering what they promise. The way they are going into detail about the Dynamic Event System tells us that it is actually working in the game. They've already mentioned that everything they've announced so far is actually in the game, and working as intended. I don't remember the interview, I'll have to try to find it. Just do a little research on ArenaNet.
I dont wish to sound like a drama-queen but the fact is most of the hype that Arenanet build up about its products border on lies.
Not so much. To flat out state that it borders on lies, is going completely overboard. Obviously they are going to make it sound like the best thing in the world since applesauce, that's just PR.
The way it works is that they will tell you about small aspects of an upcoming feature but not tell you the whole truth. So when the feature is finally revealed its shown to be completly NOT what everyone was expecting.
They aren't telling us anything about upcoming features, they are telling us about features in the game at this very moment. I don't think they can add all this that they are talking about in time for gamescom. Anet will not reveal anything until it is at enough level of polish to permit the public to know. They've even stated in the interview with OnRPG that they've realized the beta is now the demo basically, which is why we don't have beta yet. From the sounds of the "there's no beta yet to see things in action", you are one of those people who see beta as a demo rather than a bug testing/finding period.
As I've said many times already, Anet is not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. They aren't going to make promises they cant deliver on.
BTW: the more vague the announcement/post by ArenaNet, the more skeptical you should be. If they make a vague announcement/post, that means everythings not set in stone. If they make it specific, then you can almost guarantee its working exactly as they've said, minus all the adjectives that make it sound like the best.
Can you provide a link to them misinforming about that? I don't recall ever being disappointed with what was anounced about GW1. The alliance battles were as advertised from my experience; PvP involving an alliance of three groups on each team.
no I cant provide any link, I spent a solid 3 years with guildwars and rather not go there again.
having lead a guild which transformed into a 500 man alliance I can assure you that our alliance and many friendly alliances were looking forward to Alliance Vs Alliance battles, (like gvg). Alliance battles turn out to be, well, not much more than random vs random, and poorly balanced at that.
Expansion after expansion we were in awe as to what we were getting, only to be hideously disapointed. Gaile Grey being the biggest symbol of mis-representation you've ever seen! (Everyone will lol as they remeber the day she promised auction houses)
All this even before considering the years they took to resolve basic requests like extra storage.
Anyway, think what you will but by now every serious mmo gamer should by now realise that you simply cant take what a developer says about their own game at face value.
There would be no really good way to keep the sub totals they put out and have a monthly sub the GW franchise is all about PVP and not paying sub. Almost all of us have payed a decent amount of money in expansions and weapon packs and mission packs etc. They dont need box to make bank cause we eat up whatever they toss out because the franchise rocks at that its there thing. AN has a foot up on jut keeping the player happy with simple thing for sweeping graphics we get from other games and lush worlds which will tax most systems just to enjoy AN gives fun events for every holiday possible, a combat system that is by far the simplest in number of skills usuable at a time but the most complex in skills combination, and a large base of loyal players who stay loyal for 1 reason a good game that doesnt eat at the pocket each month. In the long run they couldnt risk adding in the sub and losing so many customers.
Essentially ArenaNet figures in the life expectancy of each player to be playing. They budget out their money very very carefully. They figure out the dev cost and expected sales. If you take a look at Guild Wars and at its expansions. Its business model had you paying more than the average sub cost of an MMO.
If they generate enough revenue per box and get that minimum box sales break even point low enough, then its a working model. I believe it may be a bit riskier depending on what you plan to pay for with that inital box sale, but most single-player games do not have sub costs and rely on box sales.
We'll see how it goes.
Are we getting screwed? Only if you believe that the money spent is not worth the time played. Then again, you are welcome to not pay money for something you don't believe is worth it.
What are you talking about. Guildwars from a business model they planned was a FAILURE. They original plan was to release a new expansion every 6 months. Meaning your cost would be less than a year subscription to an MMO(50x2).
Guildwars, April 2005
Factions, April 2006(1year)
Nightfall, October 2006(6months)
Eye of North, August 2007(10months)
So other than in 2006, they failed to achieve their goals as a company. I am not sure why people tend to forget the original business model(maybe to young at the time?) Now other than the goals, the model was obviously a financial success regardless of the release dates as many bought all four releases. Which would of netted Arena 150-200(Think Eye was 40 at release or 30 and not 50)
Now how will the generate enough? I'm guessing with cash shop and box sales as well as expansions released they will no doubt be a success.
All these ArenaNet/Guild Wars executives in this thread,none of you truly know ArenaNet/Guild Wars financial plan or how much profit they make. It's actually a pathetic argument and none here know jack all.
ArenaNet directly claimed that they stopped creating expansions because they felt that they were bloating everything up and making it more complicated. They had received requests to raise the level cap and realize they would break the game if they did that. They spoke of finishing the story and making a sequal to start from scratch. It wasn't about "failure" as a business model. Its that they reached a limit in their game. Even today they have their GW store but the game continues to work fine for me.
People talk about their business model failing. Its 2010 and all their servers are still up and people still play. They have not collected a monthly fee from anyone or released expansions for years to GW I. In short, they have proven you dont need to PAY A SUBSCRIPTION FEE TO PLAY A GAME.
ArenaNet directly claimed that they stopped creating expansions because they felt that they were bloating everything up and making it more complicated. They had received requests to raise the level cap and realize they would break the game if they did that. They spoke of finishing the story and making a sequal to start from scratch. It wasn't about "failure" as a business model. Its that they reached a limit in their game. Even today they have their GW store but the game continues to work fine for me.
I wish other publishers and developers would realize this. SOE and Blizzard have completely destroyed what I liked about EQ/EQ2 and WoW through expansions which seemed to have no overall vision. While they added more features to the games they took away a lot of what made the games fun by diluting populations and such. Dungeon finders and such try to remedy this, but those features do not create a player community.
Maybe they plan on releasing frequent updates (like smaller expansions), I do think they'll need some sort of continued revenue to keep up the servers.
That and maybe cosmetic MT, which everyone seems to do these days.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I've done some wonky math, a typical, sharded mmo with roughly 2000 players per shard, who play 1 hour a day every day, at 15 dollars a month makes a profit of around 30,000 a month after hosting and dev costs. They have large employee teams that are paid who are continually fixing bugs, deving the next update or expansion, and keeping servers running (not a small job). Another huge portion of that 30,000 probably goes toward website/forum hosting, and advertising, in order to keep subscriptions flowing in as players quit. Around 10,000 a month in profit my wonky math tells me. Over 3 years, they would make 360,000 in profit. Not great at all, not really enough to fund the next project. This is why they charge for boxes, expansions, have collectors editions, and still have a cash shop for vanity type things. I'm sure my calculations are way off, but it actually seems like they make more money off of the game boxes than they do the subscriptions, as everyone who ever plays the game will pay that much.
If that's the case, than maybe arenanet's model does make sense.
Anyway, I'm sure I got some factor wrong in there, most other successful mmos I would hazard a guess are making several million in profit per year. Enough to fund the next development at least (which will cost 15million to 150 million depending on the team and their ambitions). Just because arenanet has managed their costs well enough to be able to ditch subs, doesn't mean everyone else is screwing you.
Just to point out, arenanet will probably be able to profit a lot more this time around than they did with guild wars 1 even if they sold the same amount of copies. The reason being steam and other digital distribution outlets. In retail the developers stand to make around £5 from a £30 game. With steam the same £30 would net them around £12-15 (depending on who you believe on the steam cut), so that's over an instant double profit if they ship the same amount of copies on digital distribution that they did with retail for the original.
Comments
Yes it is good to be sceptical of the features, especially with the MMO market. However, ArenaNet has a history on delivering what they promise. The way they are going into detail about the Dynamic Event System tells us that it is actually working in the game. They've already mentioned that everything they've announced so far is actually in the game, and working as intended. I don't remember the interview, I'll have to try to find it. Just do a little research on ArenaNet.
I dont wish to sound like a drama-queen but the fact is most of the hype that Arenanet build up about its products border on lies.
Not so much. To flat out state that it borders on lies, is going completely overboard. Obviously they are going to make it sound like the best thing in the world since applesauce, that's just PR.
The way it works is that they will tell you about small aspects of an upcoming feature but not tell you the whole truth. So when the feature is finally revealed its shown to be completly NOT what everyone was expecting.
They aren't telling us anything about upcoming features, they are telling us about features in the game at this very moment. I don't think they can add all this that they are talking about in time for gamescom. Anet will not reveal anything until it is at enough level of polish to permit the public to know. They've even stated in the interview with OnRPG that they've realized the beta is now the demo basically, which is why we don't have beta yet. From the sounds of the "there's no beta yet to see things in action", you are one of those people who see beta as a demo rather than a bug testing/finding period.
As I've said many times already, Anet is not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing. They aren't going to make promises they cant deliver on.
BTW: the more vague the announcement/post by ArenaNet, the more skeptical you should be. If they make a vague announcement/post, that means everythings not set in stone. If they make it specific, then you can almost guarantee its working exactly as they've said, minus all the adjectives that make it sound like the best.
Even with all those things, I don't see the game last me for years and have constant version updates (= content updates).
You seem to be ignoring two major points in my post which are the biggest factors.
no I cant provide any link, I spent a solid 3 years with guildwars and rather not go there again.
having lead a guild which transformed into a 500 man alliance I can assure you that our alliance and many friendly alliances were looking forward to Alliance Vs Alliance battles, (like gvg). Alliance battles turn out to be, well, not much more than random vs random, and poorly balanced at that.
Expansion after expansion we were in awe as to what we were getting, only to be hideously disapointed. Gaile Grey being the biggest symbol of mis-representation you've ever seen! (Everyone will lol as they remeber the day she promised auction houses)
All this even before considering the years they took to resolve basic requests like extra storage.
Anyway, think what you will but by now every serious mmo gamer should by now realise that you simply cant take what a developer says about their own game at face value.
There would be no really good way to keep the sub totals they put out and have a monthly sub the GW franchise is all about PVP and not paying sub. Almost all of us have payed a decent amount of money in expansions and weapon packs and mission packs etc. They dont need box to make bank cause we eat up whatever they toss out because the franchise rocks at that its there thing. AN has a foot up on jut keeping the player happy with simple thing for sweeping graphics we get from other games and lush worlds which will tax most systems just to enjoy AN gives fun events for every holiday possible, a combat system that is by far the simplest in number of skills usuable at a time but the most complex in skills combination, and a large base of loyal players who stay loyal for 1 reason a good game that doesnt eat at the pocket each month. In the long run they couldnt risk adding in the sub and losing so many customers.
What are you talking about. Guildwars from a business model they planned was a FAILURE. They original plan was to release a new expansion every 6 months. Meaning your cost would be less than a year subscription to an MMO(50x2).
Guildwars, April 2005
Factions, April 2006(1year)
Nightfall, October 2006(6months)
Eye of North, August 2007(10months)
So other than in 2006, they failed to achieve their goals as a company. I am not sure why people tend to forget the original business model(maybe to young at the time?) Now other than the goals, the model was obviously a financial success regardless of the release dates as many bought all four releases. Which would of netted Arena 150-200(Think Eye was 40 at release or 30 and not 50)
Now how will the generate enough? I'm guessing with cash shop and box sales as well as expansions released they will no doubt be a success.
All these ArenaNet/Guild Wars executives in this thread,none of you truly know ArenaNet/Guild Wars financial plan or how much profit they make. It's actually a pathetic argument and none here know jack all.
ArenaNet directly claimed that they stopped creating expansions because they felt that they were bloating everything up and making it more complicated. They had received requests to raise the level cap and realize they would break the game if they did that. They spoke of finishing the story and making a sequal to start from scratch. It wasn't about "failure" as a business model. Its that they reached a limit in their game. Even today they have their GW store but the game continues to work fine for me.
People talk about their business model failing. Its 2010 and all their servers are still up and people still play. They have not collected a monthly fee from anyone or released expansions for years to GW I. In short, they have proven you dont need to PAY A SUBSCRIPTION FEE TO PLAY A GAME.
Guild Wars business model is very succefful, I think they built on what Diablo created. Giving solo gameplay with the ability to log into the world.
If i liked the games UI, my wife and I would have probably played there. She is really excited about 2 games, GW2 and Rifts of Telara.
Artorus Giltanus - Ranger EQ1 Retired
Arturien - 90 Deathknight WoW
PPL here forget a simple fact. The world of gaming is no longer california, some EU countries and Korea.
The gaming ppl are east Europe, China, India, Asia, South-America. Those are not affluent people.
They will avoid paying monthly if they can. GW2, starting with the base community of GW, will change the industry.
If it is good enough, we will see many more pay-per-box MMO games than today and GW2 (if it is simple enough) will replace WOW.
I wish other publishers and developers would realize this. SOE and Blizzard have completely destroyed what I liked about EQ/EQ2 and WoW through expansions which seemed to have no overall vision. While they added more features to the games they took away a lot of what made the games fun by diluting populations and such. Dungeon finders and such try to remedy this, but those features do not create a player community.
Maybe they plan on releasing frequent updates (like smaller expansions), I do think they'll need some sort of continued revenue to keep up the servers.
That and maybe cosmetic MT, which everyone seems to do these days.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I've done some wonky math, a typical, sharded mmo with roughly 2000 players per shard, who play 1 hour a day every day, at 15 dollars a month makes a profit of around 30,000 a month after hosting and dev costs. They have large employee teams that are paid who are continually fixing bugs, deving the next update or expansion, and keeping servers running (not a small job). Another huge portion of that 30,000 probably goes toward website/forum hosting, and advertising, in order to keep subscriptions flowing in as players quit. Around 10,000 a month in profit my wonky math tells me. Over 3 years, they would make 360,000 in profit. Not great at all, not really enough to fund the next project. This is why they charge for boxes, expansions, have collectors editions, and still have a cash shop for vanity type things. I'm sure my calculations are way off, but it actually seems like they make more money off of the game boxes than they do the subscriptions, as everyone who ever plays the game will pay that much.
If that's the case, than maybe arenanet's model does make sense.
Anyway, I'm sure I got some factor wrong in there, most other successful mmos I would hazard a guess are making several million in profit per year. Enough to fund the next development at least (which will cost 15million to 150 million depending on the team and their ambitions). Just because arenanet has managed their costs well enough to be able to ditch subs, doesn't mean everyone else is screwing you.
Just to point out, arenanet will probably be able to profit a lot more this time around than they did with guild wars 1 even if they sold the same amount of copies. The reason being steam and other digital distribution outlets. In retail the developers stand to make around £5 from a £30 game. With steam the same £30 would net them around £12-15 (depending on who you believe on the steam cut), so that's over an instant double profit if they ship the same amount of copies on digital distribution that they did with retail for the original.