Lately it seems that hardcore for a lot of people means a crappy game. If you say that game sucks cause of bugs and shitty design - people just tell you that you are not hardcore enough.
To me a game not necesairly an mmo that is considerd hardcore or for the hardcore audience means that its more involved. Its a much more complex product that instead of easy access puts emphesis on choice and content. Then again its not always so. There are hardcore games that have little in the ways of conent but hide the fact with the illusion of choice and freedom, or there are games with actual freedom that give it to you at the expnse of the core gameplay suffering. So hardcore to me is a very fluid term. Using some FPS examples you could argue that Modern Warfare 2 has way more content and choice than Counter Strike, yet to me MW2 is a casual shooter becouse its immensly easy, whereas Counter Strike is hardcore. CS is one of those games that while lacking alot of features that are now standard, succeed either way becouse it has perfected its core gameplay. Its pure without fluff.
The term hardcore when concerning people has unfortuantely associated with negatives. The hardcore are supposedly the asshats of DotA games, the overly serious Raiders that will scream and yeall on TS or vent about anything and everything....and so on. Thats a shame becouse I like to think of myself as a hardcore gamers not becouse I have some delusions of grandeur or like to verbally abuse "noobs". I like to think im hardcore becouse I try any and every game I can get my hands on, I love to research games, read about the devs, the process of making games, I like to participate in the communities that form around games.
Historically, "hardcore" has meant, "only the serious enthusiasts of the genre are likely to enjoy this." Most often this is due to some extreme barrier to entry. A game with a steep learning curve, where you have to absorb a book's-worth of knowledge just to get started is going to be called hardcore. A PvP game where your first tentative steps into the game are quickly cut short by some other player killing you, is also going to be called hardcore. So too will a game that imposes a harsh death penalty. And the list goes on... But each of these interpretations miss the mark, because a game may have none of these classically "hardcore" attributes while still being hardcore.
In the context of, "what do hardcore games offer that casual games do not," the correct answer is, "depth." What "hardcore" still does still mean in this context is that, "serious enthusiasts of the genre are likely to enjoy this." And that greater depth that draws the enthusiasts usually does make for a different caliber of game.
A hardcore RPG is going to have lots of intricate, meaningful story branches and character development. A hardcore Adventure game is going to have lots of areas to explore and challenging puzzles to solve. In the same vein, a hardcore MMORPG can be expected to have greater depth in those areas that define an MMORPG. Expect a rich selection of skills to learn and optimize. Expect lots of exploration and (hopefully meaningful) questing. Expect lots of character development and gear customization.
Remember, much of the fun of a game is learning how it works and ultimately mastering it. When people are asking for a more hardcore game they are generally asking for a game that will continue to challenge them (and therefor remain entertaining) for a long time to come and reward their investment of time and skill.
By comparison, a more casual game doesn't require such an investment. This isn't a bad thing by itself, but the result is that many many casual games are also pretty easy to master. Tic-Tac-Toe is a casual game that requires little investment to learn, but it's also very easy to master. Chess is a game that's somewhat harder to learn and also quite difficult to master. Compared to tic-tac-toe, chess is hardcore.
The trick is to keep the game accessible to the new players and the casual crowd while still catering to the added depth that the hardcore players crave. In the realm of MMORPGs, that usually requires a lot more work on the part of the developers, but it's not impossible. Chess is quite accessible as boardgames go. A six-year-old can learn the rules easily enough. Yet there are people who have spent most of their lives mastering the game.
I would love to play an MMORPG that can provide that kind of a challenge.
If a game has anime-style graphics with dragonball z mullets and panda heads, it's probably not hardcore. If the retail box for the game is not wrapped in bacon, it's probably not hardcore. If I do 5,000,000% damage to a lv1 mob's hp and its head doesn't explode, the game's probably not hardcore. If particle effects (specifically rainbows) emit from hands, eyes, or any orifice other than an anus, the game's probably not hardcore. If quest storylines at some point don't refer to japanese video games that got stale 5 years before the average subscriber was born, the game's probably not hardcore. If there are not isolated, empty inn rooms where I can explore and catch 2 men cybering each other as female toons, the game is probably not hardcore. If I can't train end game dragons into a newb garden 2,376 times a day, the game is probably not hard core....
...at least for me. I don't know about the rest of you.
Hardcore gaming is any game that you, the player, are willing to invest the most time and energy in order to complete.
A game that I learn all the ins and outs, ups and downs, which evokes a sense of completion when I find a new secret or answer... without having to rely on a guide, FAQ, or cheat/hint system.
When I first started playing computer games, I remember playing Space Invaders for hours on end, dropping quarters in an attempt to break the highscore. I remember when I did break that highscore, after 4 hours of playing, the comment from the arcade owner was "Now that was hardcore!" I had a sense of pride in my accomplishment, learning the patterns by trial and error, and the adulation of my peers, and a drive to do better the next time.
The next time I really felt that feeling, was while playing Super Mario Brothers, and finding a secret area... And then while talking about it, one of my friends pulled out a book, and said "Yeah, they have all those in this guide I bought." ... and then it died out. I did not realize the sense of loss for a while, but now I realize it was because I was not special, not only did my friends know about these areas, but they had books which detailed all of these and more.
Since then, I rarely share my gaming experience with others, unless they are also gamers who refuse to use cheats, guides and FAQ's. I may not always be in the top raiding guilds, and I do not know the exactly perfect combination of skills to have in order to increase my DPS to the exact highest possible level, but I do know that when I complete a quest by reading all the text, and using my own skills and sometimes luck, that I am happier. I have had groups leave me behind because I would not just jump out to some website and look up the solution of a quest.
I have had "hardcore" groups get so ticked off at me because I did not want to bypass a whole questing area because the quest rewards, according to some guide, FAQ, cheat/hint system had no value to them. To them being hardcore meant knowing ahead of time the optimal route to the goals their goals. Following a set route to the endgame raiding, and any deviation is not going to happen. The goal is the thing...
I have met "hardcore" players, who have sat down and figured out the precise spell combination to cast, in order to do the maximum potential damage. They can tell you in detail why you should cast certain lower level spells repeatedly, instead of the higher level one that uses more mana to do the same amount of damage in the same time... For them, the mechanics are the thing...
I have met "hardcore" players who are indignant about the developers dumbing down the game, and how the game is just a rush to get to end content, and that there is not enough end content in the game, and the class they play has been nerfed beyond playability, and how people are so mean to them when they PvP, and gaming has gone downhill since they started playing back in 2007... For them, the unfairness is the thing.
I have met "hardcore" players who, because of limited playing time, are "forced" to pay third party websites for ingame money and items, who, because they are so busy with work, family, and life, have to pay other people to power level their characters to the highest levels, so that they have a chance to compete with those people who have the time and energy to actually play their characters all the way up... For them, being at the top is the thing.
And I have met "hardcore" players who enjoy the ability to talk with other players, who will open the webpages to find the answers to quests on occasion, who develop their characters with the goal of helping others and raiding, who take the time to tune their skill sets so they can do the most damage they can, and who can point out occasional flaws in the game system... For them, the game is the thing.
For me, that is the majority of the "hardcore" gaming community.
Good questions, Richard. I haven't read all the comments (59 so far) but already I see a wide range of definitions of the word "hardcore" that each commenter seems to think should be apparent to everyone else.
I saw a definition today that raiding 5-6 hours per week was hardcore. Many will laugh at that, but it was true for the guy who said it. I'm personally not sure what hardcore means, as I don't use the term. But overall, I look for immersion - whether it's lore or combat or quests or role play or exploration, etc. And for someone like me who looks for immersion more than anything else, hardcore doesn't really mean anything.
There's a reason why the US is the world's only remaining super power, but when compared to most other countries academically, our results are terrible. We don't force people to think, since capitalism shows that adapting to the person is more profitable then forcing the person to adapt to you.
Umm, capitalism encourages people to excel, to be the best they can be. Go for it !
It is liberalism that wants a status quo where all things remain as they are and in many cases those who excel are frowned upon and punished. Things like turning a scoreboard off at a school competition because one team is doin tooo much better than the other. This attitude can also be seen with grading systems that prefer to substitute 'unfinised' for failing
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
What is hardcore? That is not all that easy to define so I will compare it to proffesional sports. There are houndreds, thousands and sometimes houndreds of thousands engaging into proffesional activity in any sport. Sport, like games for me, is about competition and at the end of the day/month/year only a few select people can claim to be the very best. Those few with talent and dedication as well as intelligence to succeed and that for me is what I define as the hardcore competitors.
So if an MMORPG allows for such an environment where being the best, or among the best, of thousands of competitors is something hard and fairly unique I would call that a hardcore game. However if a game is like WoW here almost everyone can be at level cap and wear the best gear then the game is obviously too easy and not hardcore.
So in other words hardcore allows the very best to be at the top and the not so good to be at the bottom with a significant difference between the two groups.
This post impressed me. The sports analogy is the closest I can describe hardcore. It is a nice fit, because sports are games too. To expand a little more :
Hardcore player is the category of players who dedicate themselves to the game. The hardore player knows (or seeks to know) the ins and outs of the game. The mechanics. The formulas. The lore. The add ons. The forums. The methods to win. What does this do for the MMO genre? It pushes the genre foward. Hardcore gamers should drive the game development process to provide a unique gaming experience. Casual gamers keep the lights on and servers running. Hardcore gamers should fuel the passion to create a best game you can.
A hardcore game strives to provide challenges and barriers. A pickup game of basketball is fun. I don't have to worry about fouling out, a time constraint, etc. It is easy to get in and have fun for while. Professional level is for keeps. Rules are abundant. Level of play requires dedication and commitment to even be able to get on the court. Knowing what works and what doesn't. Such is the difference between causal gaming and professional gaming. If there comes a time where basketball players make three pointers easier than a lay up, then the game itself will have to evolve or the interest in it will fade. The three point line will be moved back for example.
Good read. Personally I prefer dedicated instead of hardcore, because hardcore - as you mentioned - can mean so much different hings. In order to make things easier to understand, I'll refer to the term "hardcore" here and what it means to me. What really pisses me off is the fact, that some developers tend to label hardcore as something bad.
Look at a Personal Computer:
the best PC you can possible have will the one where every component has been chosen by yourself. In order to do it you need knowledge about your hardcore/software (class/theorycrafting), then you have to match all components perfectly (crafting)...There will be no one telling you "you have to built it like this or that" (hand-holding quest style) no its just you building your pc the way you want it to be.Once your PC is done will you be satisfied (done all avaiable content) but soon there will be better components, brining in some new features such as hexacore (new harder content).
While those who refuse to learn it now, will still have time to adopt to it there way but the ones who are up to the challenge will complete it faster and more so learn how to use the hexacore (mastering the new content).
So like sports, pcs doing something in a dedicated (hardcore) way is a never ending process of going forward in order to become at what you are currently doing!
1. What is hardcore?
Well some people might say FFA, corpse runs or even experience losing features would be hardcore. I respectfully disagree these are features needed for specific games.
Take Ultima Online as an example (pre Trammel). Losing your stuff has been part of the fun and more so thrill of exploring Britannia. Knowing, someone could easily kill you at the next corner made things interesting it wasn't just you against the mob it was you against the mob and possible PK's.
So to me it was something very funny (I had a PK and a PvE char) so I perfectly know both sides.
Regarding a more PvE point of view: Everquest 1
Many dumb down fans and even developers are calling this game hardcore but was it really hardcore? Hell no, how can something that forces people to grouping, socialize, help and being aware of the enviroment be something "hardcore"?
2. My defination of hardcore
Now you've seen two examples of outstanding, still unmatched games that some might consider hardcore but I really don't To me I really comes down to positive and negative hardcore (see above dedication).
So:
+ hardcore:
game making you pay for mistakes (e.g. attacking a guard, corpse runs)
no hand-holding: not all of us are braindead, stupid zombies needing a helping AI hand doing most of the work for us
don't show a mobs level: a nice text telling you about your opponent should give you some hints so its up on your own if you gonna try it or pass and come back later :-)
rewarding skill, dedication: if you aren't good enough as a player try harder or look for another game that simple. Games are meant to be challenging, rewarding and not braindead entertainment like TV has become.
deep leveling curve: more time to design great content, more time learning your class and I personally don't feel bored so fast
unique classes: no every class should be able to do everything. Speaking as a healer I know I can't solo well but oh well groups, raids are gonna need me bad.
the more you put in the more you get out: this means there aren't things like closing gaps between newbies and veterans why even have them? If I'm a newbie and want the stuff some veterans already have, well I should have to do the same thing that simple.
- hardcore:
balance: since the FPS crowd joined our genre this crap has been going on for two long. Guess what? It doesn't really matter in a PvE centric game. There will never ever be something like a 100 % balanced game and chances are high, you gonna piss off some loyal players by destroying their beloved class/builds: e.g. beastmaster spec nerf in Wow
instancing is poor game design: MMORPGs are a virtual world so dungeons should be part of it and not seperated. So yes the instance can be very hard, challenging and some might call it hardcore but comon having a place for your own group without guild-racing? This is not hardcore its carebear.
nerfs: yes they can become pretty hardcore by making you relearning your class over and over again.
questbased-themepark: such games are very hardcore in a linear way.
Why I can't give you a 100 % defination of hardcore, I think you got my point: imho hardcore is dedication, challenge, punishing mistakes and rewarding those that step up to it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I feel that when I play a game with friends who are serious about it and do their research, and when I say serious I mean that they don't want to die, they don't want to wipe... they want to do well and who doesn't? But, overall when I play with friends whether it be IRL or friends met online and we do well and we take it serious enough that we perform well and we perform cleanly while laughing and actually having fun with simple little mistakes-I feel that this is at least a little hardcore & that I have to say is the most fun.
When you hear people talk about how "hardcore" an MMORPG is, you're talking about extremes in gameplay, how far down these example paths the game goes.
Learning curve - Difficulty in learning to play the game. For some, there is tremendous satisfaction when they have finally "gotten it" about something that they've been learning to do in the game. They've struggled a bit to learn but now they got it, and now their performance in the game goes substantially up. In a way, it is rewarding in itself when you've figured the in's and out's.
Risk & reward in pve - Better rewards for dangerous tasks, and punishing mistakes.
Risk & reward in pvp - Pretty much same as above. The point for it in PvP is to put alot more meaning in winning and losing which prevents mindless zerging in PvP. It's not limited however to xp loss, stat debuffs, money loss, looting body, etc. Many PvPers would love to see area control for their guild / faction while doing PvP in an MMORPG. Being able to see the fruits of success than just saying, "I won."
Complexity and depth - Very hard for me to put this down in words, but I will use SWG's Pre-NGE crafting system as an example compared to many generic crafting systems out there. Many systems say, "To make A, get B, C, D. And you will always get A. But if you put in E also, you'll get Improved item A." In SWG's old system, "To make item A, you need, B, C, D, and / or optional E, F, to get a dozen variants of A. More factors to consider is quality of crafting equipment, gear, and player's knowledge in playing with 'experimentation points' to customize stats." In combat, this means that hitting the same handful of skills or same skill rotation = win, especially in PvP. Complexity in combat, esp. in PvP, will never allow that. The mantra is "There's more than one way to skin a cat," and complexity iin combat (again, esp. in PvP) shows greater skill and knowledge of the game by those who are good at it.
Again, when people talk about how "hardcore" an MMORPG is, it depends on how far down these paths you go.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The term 'hardcore' as opposed to the term 'casual' can be applied to just about any activity in which we humans indulge - gardeners, body-builders, any sport and the respective sports' fans, collectors of anything, followers of a TV series or a movie, fans of famous people, stock market investors, and of course, we gamers of any and all genres. In all of these activities and any other that you can think of, there are the casual persuers and those who are hardcore. The difference is in the amount of time, energy, and focus as well as the goals, rewards, and risks involved.
As an example, in my paintball playing years (in the sport's infancy during the late '80s and early '90s), I was considered hardcore because I organized and lead a team that traveled the country playing in the tournaments - local, regional, national, and international. At our home field, the casuals would show up on any given weekend to play pick-up games of capture the flag. The players in those games usually rented their equipment (standard, run-of-the-mill equipment at best) at the field, would have a quick instruction on how to use it and the general rules to be followed, and then they stood around chatting and socializing. Eventually, the start of the next game would be announced, each would get picked for a team, and then each team's pickup captain would lay out a quick general plan for the game, but once the game got underway, most players would do their own thing anyway. At the end of play, the reward was that one team or the other would have the bragging rights for that day of having won, each player would have their personal 'war' stories, and then they would head home to their other pursuits.
In contrast, the tournament level teams such as mine came to the field brandishing high-end, latest-tech equipment. We would sign-in, purchase ammo if we didn't have our own (in which case the team's procurement officer had better have had a good excuse), establish a base area, and begin unpacking equipment, fine-tune our guns, and quietly go over our strategy for the particular field we were to play on and for the team we were up against (having already researched said team and knowing their preferred playstyle and tactics as well as who their leaders and best players were). There was some casual banter, but it was usually subdued and never lengthy as each team member would be, in their own way, psyching himself or herself for the coming matchup. On the field, we operated as one - a well-oiled war machine if you will. Each member had a role befitting his or her skills and weaknesses and each member knew what the other members were doing and where they were, all as a direct result of numerous regular practices and team meetings during the periods between tourneys. The rewards were bragging rights of course, but there was also magazine right-ups, sponsers for winning teams, and monetary and equipment prizes.
The games themselves were different too. In the casual pickup games, there was usually either no time limit or a very long time limit. The game was won by either capuring the oponent's flag and hanging it at your base or by eliminating the entire other team. If neither condition was met, the game was a tie. There would be two or three referees on the field and very little use for them really. If a player took a direct hit, he or she left the field. If a player was spattered from an indirect hit, they continued playing. There were few disputes. Simple. Easy. Casual. Fun (for the casual player).
The tournaments were hardcore all the way. Each game had a rather short time limit. The winner was determined by either a flag capture or elimination of the other team, but if neither of these occurred, the team with the most players still 'alive' at the horn was the winner. There were usually four to six refs on the field and they were often busy settling disputes about splatter and hits (a spot of paint was measured with a coin. Whether splatter or not, larger than that coin and you were out), and watching for the slightest infraction of the rules which were much more extensive than a pickup game. At the horn, each 'live' player coming off the field was checked for paint to insure no one cheated by hiding or attempting to remove a hit. Complex. Hard. Hardcore. Fun (for the hardcore player).
MMOs and gamers are essentially the same as my paintball example. Just remove the references to the painball game and plug in any MMO or gamer and they will fit. As for hardcore being better, it is in many ways. Going back to paintball, the hardcore tournaments caused the sport to rise from an obscure game played in backyards and wooded lots to national (and some international) recognition. The hardcore players pioneered the advancements in the technologies used in the game due to the constant search for more efficient ways to feed the ammo to the guns, better ammo that wouldn't break before it ever left the barrel, attain longer ranges with more accuracy, and for better safety equipment. In MMOs, the successful hardcore games and their hardcore players usually push the envelope in game mechanics, AI, use of computer resources, penalties and rewards all in an attempt to challenge the players. These then trickle into the casual games which the casual players so enjoy, but they are diluted so that those casual players can still play their style and have fun without all of the hard work, time, and dedication that went into their formation for and by the hardcore crowd.
Their is nothing good with the so called h4rdc0re mindset or mentality. Turns the community to petty "pwning joo, I was lagging n00b, I would 10-0 to, etc". The mentality only degrades a community to petty e-peen and proving someone is better at pushing keys on a keyboard. If anything it is an infestation that eventually turns the whole tree rotten producing bad apples.
Majority of the bigger known spots in fps games suffer from this. Along with larger rise in game exploiters, aimbots, etc. There is nothing wrong playing to reach the top or to have fun while reaching a goal with friends. But a bad attitude is no excuse for being a straight up narrow minded asshole. It's not always the developers that share blame with the game being bad. Community can be just as much the downfall to a game. Darkfall is an MMO example.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
The problem I've seen with hardcore is that there is a point where you can see that people are finding it easier to find exploits or write scripts than it is to actually play the game the way it was intended. It stops being fun to play those sorts of games when you see evidence that those who are successful aren't worthy of respect.
I think its pretty easy to tell what people mean by hardcore, although its use is just a way of self appreciation. Hardcore games show the gamer no mercy when it comes to playing and figuring out a game. They will allow the gamer to be killed and lose all of their stuff from the very start, they will allow the gamer to travel the world by any means neccessary to complete a goal without exact location route tracing..
Hardcore games to me are basically games that do not forgive the player for being new and unfamiliar. Hardcore games tend to have a higher risk vs reward quality, because they force the player to risk so much more and be willing to deal with loss as much as be satisfied with gain.
It falls into the age old argument of why sports like rugby and MMA are considered hardcore compared to sports like golf and tennis.. The competitors are risking so much more in those sports..
The more the game replicates how life is the more hardcore it is. The setting of the game can be fantasy but if you get knocked out and your looted just like in real life s*** is going to suck real bad. For me hardcore is life and I enjoy it more because I love life. I enjoy learning and using my brain to solve problems. I enjoy creating new things and exploring places I never knew before. I enjoy life and there for I enjoy hardcore.
I don't want anyone to hold my hand and lead me to my destiny in life so why would I want someone to do it for me in a game where I am not hampered by my physical limitations but only by my imagination?
"What is hardcore?" is such a controversial question. I've seen bits and peices of what I believe hardcore to be, here in this thread, but lets look at it in more simple terms. Lets put it in the hands of two distinct individuals. The answer lies in the shape and form that hardcore comes to life.
Hardcore is a state of being, an adjective, an adverb, and also a noun. You don't need to be an English major to realize that I'm not writing words that require a degree to read. I believe that simple terms allow a wide range of readers to grasp the content rather than grasping a dictionary. I continue...
A player can be called hardcore for many reasons, it is subjective to what that player is doing or has done. That player might be a casual player who accomplished a difficult task. Perhaps he/she conquered a well known mob without dying. Maybe that same person traversed an Epic dungeon and cam back with the prize, alone.
A game can be called hardcore for many reasons. Again, it is subjective to something, most likely it's going to be content. Does the game allow this or not allow that? Does the game give players this or deny players that?
Mechanics can be called hardcore. Is the game allowing players to granularly build stats on characters or does it add a few points where it's needed based on a certain class? Will the player need real dexterirty or does the game allow for macroing.
Environments can be hardcore. In Diablo, I noticed that the there was lava and fire around every corner. In one game, I would scorch and die if I fell into the lava. In another game, I have to make good decisions while in the lava, before the lava would consume my life.
Asheron's Call had a PVE/RP and PVP Server for gamers. In this case, a world can be hardcore. Players and their wares were not protected unless it was banked. ShadowBane was another world where players suffered harshly upon death. It was a PvP world where killing other players was mainstream.
I've seen players called hardcore. What defines this? I would say that it is an unofficial title that is given to those who, in my opinion, are relentless in their pursuit. The pursuit can be as simple as gathering resources, crafting, hunting, building, planning, persistence in adventuring, pvping, conquering, exploring...the list goes on.
People dub themselves as hardcore gamers for many reasons. Perhaps it's ego? Maybe it's what others see in them, or they just might have the qualities that most hardcore gamers have... an infinite pursuit to master something without regard to failure.
Hardcore to me is that player who has mastered a portion or many portions of a game, whereas they have the levels, or the trophies, or the loot... most of all, they have they knowledge and capability to repeat impossible or difficult tasks with ease.
A player who races from launch to level cap isn't always that hardcore gamer people often think that they are... playing for 72 hours non-stop is easily called hardcore. Reaching level 60 in WoW was once a hardcore thing to do. Now, it's not so hardcore to reach 60 in a few weeks or even days.
Hardcore has nothing to do with being recreational or casual. It is what it is and fits those who can master something to the point that it peaks the curiosity of those around them. A gamer can buy a standalone product and complete it well under the estimated hours of play. This might be viewed as hardcore, but I feel that people with that amount of time should be able to accomplish it and wear no medals in the end.
There are too many types of players in the gaming industry. Say what you want about yourself or the next guy, I believe that hardcore is a culmination of many factors rather than a single act. I will always think of the hardcore player as that person who has accomplishments along side of the ability to reach back behind them and pull others to their next level of play. A simple crafted weapon to a hardcore gamer is nothing. That same simple weapon is hardcore to the person that did not have it before. A mithril 1h sword is a big deal. The hardcore gamer sees it as a necessary trinket.
The term hardcore is very subjective. To the die-hard PvPer its open world PVP where all your stuff can be looted when you die. To the death penalty advocate its perma death. To the raider its massive raids requiring hours of play and percision timing where a single mistake wipes .
Basically hardcore is used to try to create a feeling of elitism, a belief that only the very best the most commited would ever have even a hope of success.
As I stated at the beginning hardcore is very subjective A game which catered to all the hardcore advocates would be virtually unplayable. Think about it a open world pvp, where massive raids are required with machine like percision or everyone wipes with perma death ..... I'm not a griefer and even I can see the almost child like grin spreading at the thought of a raid 40 players and one suicidal PvPer stabbing the main tank in the back at that perfect moment then porting out.
But I digress the term hardcore at the present time is more often used to represent a game which requires more time commitment and effort than a casual game. The more hardcore a game is the more serious the penalties for failures.
Comments
You admit to playing CO. You don't get an opinion.
Ok, you can have an opinion, but don't make the rest of us laugh at you before you voice it.
Lately it seems that hardcore for a lot of people means a crappy game. If you say that game sucks cause of bugs and shitty design - people just tell you that you are not hardcore enough.
To me a game not necesairly an mmo that is considerd hardcore or for the hardcore audience means that its more involved. Its a much more complex product that instead of easy access puts emphesis on choice and content. Then again its not always so. There are hardcore games that have little in the ways of conent but hide the fact with the illusion of choice and freedom, or there are games with actual freedom that give it to you at the expnse of the core gameplay suffering. So hardcore to me is a very fluid term. Using some FPS examples you could argue that Modern Warfare 2 has way more content and choice than Counter Strike, yet to me MW2 is a casual shooter becouse its immensly easy, whereas Counter Strike is hardcore. CS is one of those games that while lacking alot of features that are now standard, succeed either way becouse it has perfected its core gameplay. Its pure without fluff.
The term hardcore when concerning people has unfortuantely associated with negatives. The hardcore are supposedly the asshats of DotA games, the overly serious Raiders that will scream and yeall on TS or vent about anything and everything....and so on. Thats a shame becouse I like to think of myself as a hardcore gamers not becouse I have some delusions of grandeur or like to verbally abuse "noobs". I like to think im hardcore becouse I try any and every game I can get my hands on, I love to research games, read about the devs, the process of making games, I like to participate in the communities that form around games.
Historically, "hardcore" has meant, "only the serious enthusiasts of the genre are likely to enjoy this." Most often this is due to some extreme barrier to entry. A game with a steep learning curve, where you have to absorb a book's-worth of knowledge just to get started is going to be called hardcore. A PvP game where your first tentative steps into the game are quickly cut short by some other player killing you, is also going to be called hardcore. So too will a game that imposes a harsh death penalty. And the list goes on... But each of these interpretations miss the mark, because a game may have none of these classically "hardcore" attributes while still being hardcore.
In the context of, "what do hardcore games offer that casual games do not," the correct answer is, "depth." What "hardcore" still does still mean in this context is that, "serious enthusiasts of the genre are likely to enjoy this." And that greater depth that draws the enthusiasts usually does make for a different caliber of game.
A hardcore RPG is going to have lots of intricate, meaningful story branches and character development. A hardcore Adventure game is going to have lots of areas to explore and challenging puzzles to solve. In the same vein, a hardcore MMORPG can be expected to have greater depth in those areas that define an MMORPG. Expect a rich selection of skills to learn and optimize. Expect lots of exploration and (hopefully meaningful) questing. Expect lots of character development and gear customization.
Remember, much of the fun of a game is learning how it works and ultimately mastering it. When people are asking for a more hardcore game they are generally asking for a game that will continue to challenge them (and therefor remain entertaining) for a long time to come and reward their investment of time and skill.
By comparison, a more casual game doesn't require such an investment. This isn't a bad thing by itself, but the result is that many many casual games are also pretty easy to master. Tic-Tac-Toe is a casual game that requires little investment to learn, but it's also very easy to master. Chess is a game that's somewhat harder to learn and also quite difficult to master. Compared to tic-tac-toe, chess is hardcore.
The trick is to keep the game accessible to the new players and the casual crowd while still catering to the added depth that the hardcore players crave. In the realm of MMORPGs, that usually requires a lot more work on the part of the developers, but it's not impossible. Chess is quite accessible as boardgames go. A six-year-old can learn the rules easily enough. Yet there are people who have spent most of their lives mastering the game.
I would love to play an MMORPG that can provide that kind of a challenge.
D2 hardcore
If a game has anime-style graphics with dragonball z mullets and panda heads, it's probably not hardcore. If the retail box for the game is not wrapped in bacon, it's probably not hardcore. If I do 5,000,000% damage to a lv1 mob's hp and its head doesn't explode, the game's probably not hardcore. If particle effects (specifically rainbows) emit from hands, eyes, or any orifice other than an anus, the game's probably not hardcore. If quest storylines at some point don't refer to japanese video games that got stale 5 years before the average subscriber was born, the game's probably not hardcore. If there are not isolated, empty inn rooms where I can explore and catch 2 men cybering each other as female toons, the game is probably not hardcore. If I can't train end game dragons into a newb garden 2,376 times a day, the game is probably not hard core....
...at least for me. I don't know about the rest of you.
What is Hardcore gaming to me?
Hardcore gaming is any game that you, the player, are willing to invest the most time and energy in order to complete.
A game that I learn all the ins and outs, ups and downs, which evokes a sense of completion when I find a new secret or answer... without having to rely on a guide, FAQ, or cheat/hint system.
When I first started playing computer games, I remember playing Space Invaders for hours on end, dropping quarters in an attempt to break the highscore. I remember when I did break that highscore, after 4 hours of playing, the comment from the arcade owner was "Now that was hardcore!" I had a sense of pride in my accomplishment, learning the patterns by trial and error, and the adulation of my peers, and a drive to do better the next time.
The next time I really felt that feeling, was while playing Super Mario Brothers, and finding a secret area... And then while talking about it, one of my friends pulled out a book, and said "Yeah, they have all those in this guide I bought." ... and then it died out. I did not realize the sense of loss for a while, but now I realize it was because I was not special, not only did my friends know about these areas, but they had books which detailed all of these and more.
Since then, I rarely share my gaming experience with others, unless they are also gamers who refuse to use cheats, guides and FAQ's. I may not always be in the top raiding guilds, and I do not know the exactly perfect combination of skills to have in order to increase my DPS to the exact highest possible level, but I do know that when I complete a quest by reading all the text, and using my own skills and sometimes luck, that I am happier. I have had groups leave me behind because I would not just jump out to some website and look up the solution of a quest.
I have had "hardcore" groups get so ticked off at me because I did not want to bypass a whole questing area because the quest rewards, according to some guide, FAQ, cheat/hint system had no value to them. To them being hardcore meant knowing ahead of time the optimal route to the goals their goals. Following a set route to the endgame raiding, and any deviation is not going to happen. The goal is the thing...
I have met "hardcore" players, who have sat down and figured out the precise spell combination to cast, in order to do the maximum potential damage. They can tell you in detail why you should cast certain lower level spells repeatedly, instead of the higher level one that uses more mana to do the same amount of damage in the same time... For them, the mechanics are the thing...
I have met "hardcore" players who are indignant about the developers dumbing down the game, and how the game is just a rush to get to end content, and that there is not enough end content in the game, and the class they play has been nerfed beyond playability, and how people are so mean to them when they PvP, and gaming has gone downhill since they started playing back in 2007... For them, the unfairness is the thing.
I have met "hardcore" players who, because of limited playing time, are "forced" to pay third party websites for ingame money and items, who, because they are so busy with work, family, and life, have to pay other people to power level their characters to the highest levels, so that they have a chance to compete with those people who have the time and energy to actually play their characters all the way up... For them, being at the top is the thing.
And I have met "hardcore" players who enjoy the ability to talk with other players, who will open the webpages to find the answers to quests on occasion, who develop their characters with the goal of helping others and raiding, who take the time to tune their skill sets so they can do the most damage they can, and who can point out occasional flaws in the game system... For them, the game is the thing.
For me, that is the majority of the "hardcore" gaming community.
Good questions, Richard. I haven't read all the comments (59 so far) but already I see a wide range of definitions of the word "hardcore" that each commenter seems to think should be apparent to everyone else.
I saw a definition today that raiding 5-6 hours per week was hardcore. Many will laugh at that, but it was true for the guy who said it. I'm personally not sure what hardcore means, as I don't use the term. But overall, I look for immersion - whether it's lore or combat or quests or role play or exploration, etc. And for someone like me who looks for immersion more than anything else, hardcore doesn't really mean anything.
Snarlingwolf writes:
There's a reason why the US is the world's only remaining super power, but when compared to most other countries academically, our results are terrible. We don't force people to think, since capitalism shows that adapting to the person is more profitable then forcing the person to adapt to you.
Umm, capitalism encourages people to excel, to be the best they can be. Go for it !
It is liberalism that wants a status quo where all things remain as they are and in many cases those who excel are frowned upon and punished. Things like turning a scoreboard off at a school competition because one team is doin tooo much better than the other. This attitude can also be seen with grading systems that prefer to substitute 'unfinised' for failing
Good read.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
This post impressed me. The sports analogy is the closest I can describe hardcore. It is a nice fit, because sports are games too. To expand a little more :
Hardcore player is the category of players who dedicate themselves to the game. The hardore player knows (or seeks to know) the ins and outs of the game. The mechanics. The formulas. The lore. The add ons. The forums. The methods to win. What does this do for the MMO genre? It pushes the genre foward. Hardcore gamers should drive the game development process to provide a unique gaming experience. Casual gamers keep the lights on and servers running. Hardcore gamers should fuel the passion to create a best game you can.
A hardcore game strives to provide challenges and barriers. A pickup game of basketball is fun. I don't have to worry about fouling out, a time constraint, etc. It is easy to get in and have fun for while. Professional level is for keeps. Rules are abundant. Level of play requires dedication and commitment to even be able to get on the court. Knowing what works and what doesn't. Such is the difference between causal gaming and professional gaming. If there comes a time where basketball players make three pointers easier than a lay up, then the game itself will have to evolve or the interest in it will fade. The three point line will be moved back for example.
Good read. Personally I prefer dedicated instead of hardcore, because hardcore - as you mentioned - can mean so much different hings. In order to make things easier to understand, I'll refer to the term "hardcore" here and what it means to me. What really pisses me off is the fact, that some developers tend to label hardcore as something bad.
Look at a Personal Computer:
the best PC you can possible have will the one where every component has been chosen by yourself. In order to do it you need knowledge about your hardcore/software (class/theorycrafting), then you have to match all components perfectly (crafting)...There will be no one telling you "you have to built it like this or that" (hand-holding quest style) no its just you building your pc the way you want it to be.Once your PC is done will you be satisfied (done all avaiable content) but soon there will be better components, brining in some new features such as hexacore (new harder content).
While those who refuse to learn it now, will still have time to adopt to it there way but the ones who are up to the challenge will complete it faster and more so learn how to use the hexacore (mastering the new content).
So like sports, pcs doing something in a dedicated (hardcore) way is a never ending process of going forward in order to become at what you are currently doing!
1. What is hardcore?
Well some people might say FFA, corpse runs or even experience losing features would be hardcore. I respectfully disagree these are features needed for specific games.
Take Ultima Online as an example (pre Trammel). Losing your stuff has been part of the fun and more so thrill of exploring Britannia. Knowing, someone could easily kill you at the next corner made things interesting it wasn't just you against the mob it was you against the mob and possible PK's.
So to me it was something very funny (I had a PK and a PvE char) so I perfectly know both sides.
Regarding a more PvE point of view: Everquest 1
Many dumb down fans and even developers are calling this game hardcore but was it really hardcore? Hell no, how can something that forces people to grouping, socialize, help and being aware of the enviroment be something "hardcore"?
2. My defination of hardcore
Now you've seen two examples of outstanding, still unmatched games that some might consider hardcore but I really don't To me I really comes down to positive and negative hardcore (see above dedication).
So:
+ hardcore:
game making you pay for mistakes (e.g. attacking a guard, corpse runs)
no hand-holding: not all of us are braindead, stupid zombies needing a helping AI hand doing most of the work for us
don't show a mobs level: a nice text telling you about your opponent should give you some hints so its up on your own if you gonna try it or pass and come back later :-)
rewarding skill, dedication: if you aren't good enough as a player try harder or look for another game that simple. Games are meant to be challenging, rewarding and not braindead entertainment like TV has become.
deep leveling curve: more time to design great content, more time learning your class and I personally don't feel bored so fast
unique classes: no every class should be able to do everything. Speaking as a healer I know I can't solo well but oh well groups, raids are gonna need me bad.
the more you put in the more you get out: this means there aren't things like closing gaps between newbies and veterans why even have them? If I'm a newbie and want the stuff some veterans already have, well I should have to do the same thing that simple.
- hardcore:
balance: since the FPS crowd joined our genre this crap has been going on for two long. Guess what? It doesn't really matter in a PvE centric game. There will never ever be something like a 100 % balanced game and chances are high, you gonna piss off some loyal players by destroying their beloved class/builds: e.g. beastmaster spec nerf in Wow
instancing is poor game design: MMORPGs are a virtual world so dungeons should be part of it and not seperated. So yes the instance can be very hard, challenging and some might call it hardcore but comon having a place for your own group without guild-racing? This is not hardcore its carebear.
nerfs: yes they can become pretty hardcore by making you relearning your class over and over again.
questbased-themepark: such games are very hardcore in a linear way.
Why I can't give you a 100 % defination of hardcore, I think you got my point: imho hardcore is dedication, challenge, punishing mistakes and rewarding those that step up to it.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I feel that when I play a game with friends who are serious about it and do their research, and when I say serious I mean that they don't want to die, they don't want to wipe... they want to do well and who doesn't? But, overall when I play with friends whether it be IRL or friends met online and we do well and we take it serious enough that we perform well and we perform cleanly while laughing and actually having fun with simple little mistakes-I feel that this is at least a little hardcore & that I have to say is the most fun.
*Without simple mistakes* ^ sorry ><
When you hear people talk about how "hardcore" an MMORPG is, you're talking about extremes in gameplay, how far down these example paths the game goes.
Learning curve - Difficulty in learning to play the game. For some, there is tremendous satisfaction when they have finally "gotten it" about something that they've been learning to do in the game. They've struggled a bit to learn but now they got it, and now their performance in the game goes substantially up. In a way, it is rewarding in itself when you've figured the in's and out's.
Risk & reward in pve - Better rewards for dangerous tasks, and punishing mistakes.
Risk & reward in pvp - Pretty much same as above. The point for it in PvP is to put alot more meaning in winning and losing which prevents mindless zerging in PvP. It's not limited however to xp loss, stat debuffs, money loss, looting body, etc. Many PvPers would love to see area control for their guild / faction while doing PvP in an MMORPG. Being able to see the fruits of success than just saying, "I won."
Complexity and depth - Very hard for me to put this down in words, but I will use SWG's Pre-NGE crafting system as an example compared to many generic crafting systems out there. Many systems say, "To make A, get B, C, D. And you will always get A. But if you put in E also, you'll get Improved item A." In SWG's old system, "To make item A, you need, B, C, D, and / or optional E, F, to get a dozen variants of A. More factors to consider is quality of crafting equipment, gear, and player's knowledge in playing with 'experimentation points' to customize stats." In combat, this means that hitting the same handful of skills or same skill rotation = win, especially in PvP. Complexity in combat, esp. in PvP, will never allow that. The mantra is "There's more than one way to skin a cat," and complexity iin combat (again, esp. in PvP) shows greater skill and knowledge of the game by those who are good at it.
Again, when people talk about how "hardcore" an MMORPG is, it depends on how far down these paths you go.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
The term 'hardcore' as opposed to the term 'casual' can be applied to just about any activity in which we humans indulge - gardeners, body-builders, any sport and the respective sports' fans, collectors of anything, followers of a TV series or a movie, fans of famous people, stock market investors, and of course, we gamers of any and all genres. In all of these activities and any other that you can think of, there are the casual persuers and those who are hardcore. The difference is in the amount of time, energy, and focus as well as the goals, rewards, and risks involved.
As an example, in my paintball playing years (in the sport's infancy during the late '80s and early '90s), I was considered hardcore because I organized and lead a team that traveled the country playing in the tournaments - local, regional, national, and international. At our home field, the casuals would show up on any given weekend to play pick-up games of capture the flag. The players in those games usually rented their equipment (standard, run-of-the-mill equipment at best) at the field, would have a quick instruction on how to use it and the general rules to be followed, and then they stood around chatting and socializing. Eventually, the start of the next game would be announced, each would get picked for a team, and then each team's pickup captain would lay out a quick general plan for the game, but once the game got underway, most players would do their own thing anyway. At the end of play, the reward was that one team or the other would have the bragging rights for that day of having won, each player would have their personal 'war' stories, and then they would head home to their other pursuits.
In contrast, the tournament level teams such as mine came to the field brandishing high-end, latest-tech equipment. We would sign-in, purchase ammo if we didn't have our own (in which case the team's procurement officer had better have had a good excuse), establish a base area, and begin unpacking equipment, fine-tune our guns, and quietly go over our strategy for the particular field we were to play on and for the team we were up against (having already researched said team and knowing their preferred playstyle and tactics as well as who their leaders and best players were). There was some casual banter, but it was usually subdued and never lengthy as each team member would be, in their own way, psyching himself or herself for the coming matchup. On the field, we operated as one - a well-oiled war machine if you will. Each member had a role befitting his or her skills and weaknesses and each member knew what the other members were doing and where they were, all as a direct result of numerous regular practices and team meetings during the periods between tourneys. The rewards were bragging rights of course, but there was also magazine right-ups, sponsers for winning teams, and monetary and equipment prizes.
The games themselves were different too. In the casual pickup games, there was usually either no time limit or a very long time limit. The game was won by either capuring the oponent's flag and hanging it at your base or by eliminating the entire other team. If neither condition was met, the game was a tie. There would be two or three referees on the field and very little use for them really. If a player took a direct hit, he or she left the field. If a player was spattered from an indirect hit, they continued playing. There were few disputes. Simple. Easy. Casual. Fun (for the casual player).
The tournaments were hardcore all the way. Each game had a rather short time limit. The winner was determined by either a flag capture or elimination of the other team, but if neither of these occurred, the team with the most players still 'alive' at the horn was the winner. There were usually four to six refs on the field and they were often busy settling disputes about splatter and hits (a spot of paint was measured with a coin. Whether splatter or not, larger than that coin and you were out), and watching for the slightest infraction of the rules which were much more extensive than a pickup game. At the horn, each 'live' player coming off the field was checked for paint to insure no one cheated by hiding or attempting to remove a hit. Complex. Hard. Hardcore. Fun (for the hardcore player).
MMOs and gamers are essentially the same as my paintball example. Just remove the references to the painball game and plug in any MMO or gamer and they will fit. As for hardcore being better, it is in many ways. Going back to paintball, the hardcore tournaments caused the sport to rise from an obscure game played in backyards and wooded lots to national (and some international) recognition. The hardcore players pioneered the advancements in the technologies used in the game due to the constant search for more efficient ways to feed the ammo to the guns, better ammo that wouldn't break before it ever left the barrel, attain longer ranges with more accuracy, and for better safety equipment. In MMOs, the successful hardcore games and their hardcore players usually push the envelope in game mechanics, AI, use of computer resources, penalties and rewards all in an attempt to challenge the players. These then trickle into the casual games which the casual players so enjoy, but they are diluted so that those casual players can still play their style and have fun without all of the hard work, time, and dedication that went into their formation for and by the hardcore crowd.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
Their is nothing good with the so called h4rdc0re mindset or mentality. Turns the community to petty "pwning joo, I was lagging n00b, I would 10-0 to, etc". The mentality only degrades a community to petty e-peen and proving someone is better at pushing keys on a keyboard. If anything it is an infestation that eventually turns the whole tree rotten producing bad apples.
Majority of the bigger known spots in fps games suffer from this. Along with larger rise in game exploiters, aimbots, etc. There is nothing wrong playing to reach the top or to have fun while reaching a goal with friends. But a bad attitude is no excuse for being a straight up narrow minded asshole. It's not always the developers that share blame with the game being bad. Community can be just as much the downfall to a game. Darkfall is an MMO example.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
The problem I've seen with hardcore is that there is a point where you can see that people are finding it easier to find exploits or write scripts than it is to actually play the game the way it was intended. It stops being fun to play those sorts of games when you see evidence that those who are successful aren't worthy of respect.
Sounds like you enjoy EVE.
The more the game replicates how life is the more hardcore it is. The setting of the game can be fantasy but if you get knocked out and your looted just like in real life s*** is going to suck real bad. For me hardcore is life and I enjoy it more because I love life. I enjoy learning and using my brain to solve problems. I enjoy creating new things and exploring places I never knew before. I enjoy life and there for I enjoy hardcore.
I don't want anyone to hold my hand and lead me to my destiny in life so why would I want someone to do it for me in a game where I am not hampered by my physical limitations but only by my imagination?
Hardcore gamer =
Jora ( the girl from the 2nd pic) says, "Come to bed now, you stud! I want you in every way imaginable and then I want to give you a million dollars!"
You say, "Sorry babe, raid starts in 5."
Games are not hardcore. Life is.
Ok.. that was pretty cheesy... Ill admit.
"What is hardcore?" is such a controversial question. I've seen bits and peices of what I believe hardcore to be, here in this thread, but lets look at it in more simple terms. Lets put it in the hands of two distinct individuals. The answer lies in the shape and form that hardcore comes to life.
Hardcore is a state of being, an adjective, an adverb, and also a noun. You don't need to be an English major to realize that I'm not writing words that require a degree to read. I believe that simple terms allow a wide range of readers to grasp the content rather than grasping a dictionary. I continue...
A player can be called hardcore for many reasons, it is subjective to what that player is doing or has done. That player might be a casual player who accomplished a difficult task. Perhaps he/she conquered a well known mob without dying. Maybe that same person traversed an Epic dungeon and cam back with the prize, alone.
A game can be called hardcore for many reasons. Again, it is subjective to something, most likely it's going to be content. Does the game allow this or not allow that? Does the game give players this or deny players that?
Mechanics can be called hardcore. Is the game allowing players to granularly build stats on characters or does it add a few points where it's needed based on a certain class? Will the player need real dexterirty or does the game allow for macroing.
Environments can be hardcore. In Diablo, I noticed that the there was lava and fire around every corner. In one game, I would scorch and die if I fell into the lava. In another game, I have to make good decisions while in the lava, before the lava would consume my life.
Asheron's Call had a PVE/RP and PVP Server for gamers. In this case, a world can be hardcore. Players and their wares were not protected unless it was banked. ShadowBane was another world where players suffered harshly upon death. It was a PvP world where killing other players was mainstream.
I've seen players called hardcore. What defines this? I would say that it is an unofficial title that is given to those who, in my opinion, are relentless in their pursuit. The pursuit can be as simple as gathering resources, crafting, hunting, building, planning, persistence in adventuring, pvping, conquering, exploring...the list goes on.
People dub themselves as hardcore gamers for many reasons. Perhaps it's ego? Maybe it's what others see in them, or they just might have the qualities that most hardcore gamers have... an infinite pursuit to master something without regard to failure.
Hardcore to me is that player who has mastered a portion or many portions of a game, whereas they have the levels, or the trophies, or the loot... most of all, they have they knowledge and capability to repeat impossible or difficult tasks with ease.
A player who races from launch to level cap isn't always that hardcore gamer people often think that they are... playing for 72 hours non-stop is easily called hardcore. Reaching level 60 in WoW was once a hardcore thing to do. Now, it's not so hardcore to reach 60 in a few weeks or even days.
Hardcore has nothing to do with being recreational or casual. It is what it is and fits those who can master something to the point that it peaks the curiosity of those around them. A gamer can buy a standalone product and complete it well under the estimated hours of play. This might be viewed as hardcore, but I feel that people with that amount of time should be able to accomplish it and wear no medals in the end.
There are too many types of players in the gaming industry. Say what you want about yourself or the next guy, I believe that hardcore is a culmination of many factors rather than a single act. I will always think of the hardcore player as that person who has accomplishments along side of the ability to reach back behind them and pull others to their next level of play. A simple crafted weapon to a hardcore gamer is nothing. That same simple weapon is hardcore to the person that did not have it before. A mithril 1h sword is a big deal. The hardcore gamer sees it as a necessary trinket.
The term hardcore is very subjective. To the die-hard PvPer its open world PVP where all your stuff can be looted when you die. To the death penalty advocate its perma death. To the raider its massive raids requiring hours of play and percision timing where a single mistake wipes .
Basically hardcore is used to try to create a feeling of elitism, a belief that only the very best the most commited would ever have even a hope of success.
As I stated at the beginning hardcore is very subjective A game which catered to all the hardcore advocates would be virtually unplayable. Think about it a open world pvp, where massive raids are required with machine like percision or everyone wipes with perma death ..... I'm not a griefer and even I can see the almost child like grin spreading at the thought of a raid 40 players and one suicidal PvPer stabbing the main tank in the back at that perfect moment then porting out.
But I digress the term hardcore at the present time is more often used to represent a game which requires more time commitment and effort than a casual game. The more hardcore a game is the more serious the penalties for failures.
Just my 2 cents
Gadareth