DDO was a fraction of what EQ2, and even LOTRO's playerbase was. Consequently, the revenue was significantly smaller.
The flaw in logic is to assume that DDO's F2P conversion will positively impact LOTRO and EQ2's profitability. I'm not saying it won't, simply that there's likely equal chance that the conversion could potentially flop, as it could actually increase their profits.
Besides, more players means more costs. Five times as much revenue doesn't mean so much when you costs proportionally increase by just as much.
So sure, going F2P "saved" DDO from being closed, and increased it's revenue. but it is still arguably not doing all that well.
With DDO they do get far more updates and additions today. Which makes me assume they've expanded the team at least a little, which would raise costs for sure. Now the question is would SOE do the same? If the changes have a positive impact on eq2 in terms of profit.
I doubt they would given their track record they'd just "borrow" a few from one of their other titles.
It's hard to say at this point how both LOTRO and EQ2 will do after their transition. From the sound of it, there's not much incentive to play for free, little to none anyway, outside of it being free. There's quite a bit of restriction on you though.
I've never really heard the complaint that EQ2 or LOTRO weren't worth a sub. With those two games it's been more about mechanics or lore, as to why people don't play. In DDO's case things were different, a lot of people felt the game was decent just not worth a sub, that's judging by forum posts of course. Which isn't worth much, in the greater scheme of things.
I have a hard time assuming either way, it's really in the air IMO if this will be a successful venture or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
1. EQ2 is still successful. The only game outside of WoW that has had noticeable growth is EvE. However EQ2 is one of the only games that has had no noticeable decline over the last few years. If you logged in to an EQ2 server in 2007 than again in 2010 you would not notice a decrease in players, and you might even think theres an increase.
That's a complete lie. Everybody knows EQ2 sold lots of initial copies in 2004, but then went through 2 years of revamps because players didn't like what they saw. Population went downhill for EQ2. Even EQ1 had higher subscription numbers than EQ2 up until perhaps a year or two ago. Everybody knows server merges mean you have lost subscribers, and they've gone through a couple already, now contemplating another round.
1. EQ2 is still successful. The only game outside of WoW that has had noticeable growth is EvE. However EQ2 is one of the only games that has had no noticeable decline over the last few years. If you logged in to an EQ2 server in 2007 than again in 2010 you would not notice a decrease in players, and you might even think theres an increase.
That's a complete lie. Everybody knows EQ2 sold lots of initial copies in 2007, but then went through 2 years of revamps because players didn't like what they saw. Even EQ1 had higher subscription numbers than EQ2 up until perhaps a year or two ago. Everybody knows server merges mean you have lost subscribers, and they've gone through a couple already, now contemplating another round.
These mergers couldnt be to free up servers for the F2P model could they?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
1. EQ2 is still successful. The only game outside of WoW that has had noticeable growth is EvE. However EQ2 is one of the only games that has had no noticeable decline over the last few years. If you logged in to an EQ2 server in 2007 than again in 2010 you would not notice a decrease in players, and you might even think theres an increase. 2. EQ2 has always had very active development. The EQ franchise has even been criticized for pushing out TOO MUCH content. As a WoW player I could only wish Blizzard had that critique against them. Bottom line is that while they may seem greedy (and what corporation isnt) they dont just sit back on their money either. 3. They didnt copy Turbine's very flawed system. They are trying a completely different approach. These seperate servers will be a fascinating experiment. No f2p game has ever given this much content. EQ2 minus sentinels fate has probably double WoW's content. the 10 buck fee will be pretty necessary for the spell upgrades, but beyond that one purchase, wow. This easily vaults EQ2 to be the best f2p game out there by a long shot. 4. Again, they are unique servers. 5. All MMO companies lie. You play an MMO, you support one just like SoE. 'WoW will never allow PvE to PvP transfers' 'Oh wait nevermind, well take the free money after all'
1) SOE said they were going to merge the EQ2 servers just a few months ago. The holdup was that last expansion fubared the servers and made a mess of the game (see point 2 also). Sorry, but EQ2 has seen plenty of decline. That is why people are migrating to 1 server and they have had several rounds of server mergers.
2) SOE took the quantity over quality approach to the everquest franchise and it has cost them. See point 1 for the results of that. Even the president of the company has admitted their rushed approach to content has hurt the quality and image of their game, but then again he said they were going to listen to player feedback and communicate more openly with the players... several times now (see point 5)
3) True SOE is doing something different, but again they are rushing into something that has zero player feedback and not testing.
4) True
5) Again true, but the magnitudes of such statements are miles apart. Blizzard didn't make a statement about the transfers while still planning to allow it years down the road. Things changed and they were wrong, but not done with the intention to deceive.
Soe makes promises with their fingers crossed. They know they are not going to keep their word and they are making statements with the full intention of deceiving the customers. That is a direct lie.
They just said less than 30 days ago that EQ2 was not going free to play. See the difference?
1. EQ2 is still successful. The only game outside of WoW that has had noticeable growth is EvE. However EQ2 is one of the only games that has had no noticeable decline over the last few years. If you logged in to an EQ2 server in 2007 than again in 2010 you would not notice a decrease in players, and you might even think theres an increase.
That's a complete lie. Everybody knows EQ2 sold lots of initial copies in 2007, but then went through 2 years of revamps because players didn't like what they saw. Even EQ1 had higher subscription numbers than EQ2 up until perhaps a year or two ago. Everybody knows server merges mean you have lost subscribers, and they've gone through a couple already, now contemplating another round.
These mergers couldnt be to free up servers for the F2P model could they?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. It isn't like soe has extra money laying around to buy more hardware for new servers. Seeing they just had a second round of job layoffs.
I am really starting to wonder if this isn't just another one of SOEs experiments to see how this model will work with one of their upcoming games. It would fit their methods.
These mergers couldnt be to free up servers for the F2P model could they?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. It isn't like soe has extra money laying around to buy more hardware for new servers. Seeing they just had a second round of job layoffs.
It's very unlikely in my opinion that servers are a problem for them. SOE likely have a good contract with Dell and buys servers in mass quantities, and cheaper than people would buying them one at a time. The cost of new hardware is likely a lot less than the cost of time it takes to develop new ruleset.
This is without knowing how EQ2 is setup, or their network infrustructure. Sometimes when they "add a server", they could simply be adding a new drive array, or utilizing the existing servers they have but simply opening up a new "instance".
Companies don't just merge servers for fun, they do it because players demand it due to low population. And having followed EQ2's official forum, I can say there has been plenty of times when people asked when the next round of merges are going to be.
However EQ2 is one of the only games that has had no noticeable decline over the last If you logged in to an EQ2 server in 2007 than again in 2010 you would not notice a decrease in players, and you might even think theres an increase.
I agree EQ2 hasn't declined as much as most MMOs, but server mergers are the only reason why you still feel like populations are similar over the last 3 years.
My understanding is, you want to play the game P2P. You subscribe, you pay 14.95 a month, and you go on a subscription server. There is NO CASH shop in that server, players CANNOT BUY ITEMS.
OR, you want to play F2P, you don't subscribe, and you long on to a F2P server, and THERE IS A CASH SHOP.
The Subscription PLayers and the Cash Shop players are on different servers, and NEVER play together on the same server?
If that's the case, this is fine with me.
I HATE cash shops, would never play a game with a cash shop in the game.
But if there is a subscription based server with NO CASH SHOP, then the fact that there are cash shop servers doesn't bother me.
I won't play on the cash shop servers, but if other players want to, go ahead, have fun!
The "pretend there's no cash shop on the server" argument is retarded. In that case, close your eyes and pretend you're not on a forum but playing a cool sandbox MMORPG.
These mergers couldnt be to free up servers for the F2P model could they?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. It isn't like soe has extra money laying around to buy more hardware for new servers. Seeing they just had a second round of job layoffs.
It's very unlikely in my opinion that servers are a problem for them. SOE likely have a good contract with Dell and buys servers in mass quantities, and cheaper than people would buying them one at a time. The cost of new hardware is likely a lot less than the cost of time it takes to develop new ruleset.
This is without knowing how EQ2 is setup, or their network infrustructure. Sometimes when they "add a server", they could simply be adding a new drive array, or utilizing the existing servers they have but simply opening up a new "instance".
Companies don't just merge servers for fun, they do it because players demand it due to low population. And having followed EQ2's official forum, I can say there has been plenty of times when people asked when the next round of merges are going to be.
That is all well and true, but I think overall we are looking at a company with declining revenue and increasing expenses. I don't suspect they have tons of cash to throw around, even if the prices were good.
1. EQ2 is still successful. The only game outside of WoW that has had noticeable growth is EvE. However EQ2 is one of the only games that has had no noticeable decline over the last few years. If you logged in to an EQ2 server in 2007 than again in 2010 you would not notice a decrease in players, and you might even think theres an increase.
That's a complete lie. Everybody knows EQ2 sold lots of initial copies in 2004, but then went through 2 years of revamps because players didn't like what they saw. Population went downhill for EQ2. Even EQ1 had higher subscription numbers than EQ2 up until perhaps a year or two ago. Everybody knows server merges mean you have lost subscribers, and they've gone through a couple already, now contemplating another round.
Im talking about the last 3 years or so. EQ2 declined its first 3 years, but its been stable since, comparatively.
My understanding is, you want to play the game P2P. You subscribe, you pay 14.95 a month, and you go on a subscription server. There is NO CASH shop in that server, players CANNOT BUY ITEMS.
OR, you want to play F2P, you don't subscribe, and you long on to a F2P server, and THERE IS A CASH SHOP.
The Subscription PLayers and the Cash Shop players are on different servers, and NEVER play together on the same server?
If that's the case, this is fine with me.
I HATE cash shops, would never play a game with a cash shop in the game.
But if there is a subscription based server with NO CASH SHOP, then the fact that there are cash shop servers doesn't bother me.
I won't play on the cash shop servers, but if other players want to, go ahead, have fun!
The "pretend there's no cash shop on the server" argument is retarded. In that case, close your eyes and pretend you're not on a forum but playing a cool sandbox MMORPG.
There is a cash shop on all servers in EQ2. So why not just have the free players join the old servers with some restrictions. Instead no new players are going to join the old servers leaving them to die...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
There is a cash shop on all servers in EQ2. So why not just have the free players join the old servers with some restrictions. Instead no new players are going to join the old servers leaving them to die...
And you didn't think this was part of the plan? Come on, they all sat in a meeting room, thought about what would happen if they did this. Of course they know new players will always go to the free server first, what a great way to play and level up without paying monthly. So your old servers would see less and less population, eventually SOE will come and merge it all together and tell you they're doing you a favor.
There is a cash shop on all servers in EQ2. So why not just have the free players join the old servers with some restrictions. Instead no new players are going to join the old servers leaving them to die...
And you didn't think this was part of the plan? Come on, they all sat in a meeting room, thought about what would happen if they did this. Of course they know new players will always go to the free server first, what a great way to play and level up without paying monthly. So your old servers would see less and less population, eventually SOE will come and merge it all together and tell you they're doing you a favor.
This is exactly what I see happening. Turbine and Soe know whats best for their players, even if the player dont.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
There is a cash shop on all servers in EQ2. So why not just have the free players join the old servers with some restrictions. Instead no new players are going to join the old servers leaving them to die...
And you didn't think this was part of the plan? Come on, they all sat in a meeting room, thought about what would happen if they did this. Of course they know new players will always go to the free server first, what a great way to play and level up without paying monthly. So your old servers would see less and less population, eventually SOE will come and merge it all together and tell you they're doing you a favor.
This is exactly what I see happening. Turbine and Soe know whats best for their players, even if the player dont.
Ya SoE and Turbine are doing it for the players. And if ya belive that I got a bridge in brooklyn ill sell ya.
The following statement is false The previous statement is true
This is exactly what I see happening. Turbine and Soe know whats best for their players, even if the player dont.
The problem with that is, they would've gone the opposite of what they said they wouldn't do. Bottom line is, cash shops is coming to all SOE games whether you like it or not, whether you are paying for monthly or not. This will affect the regular paying servers sooner or later.
This is exactly what I see happening. Turbine and Soe know whats best for their players, even if the player dont.
The problem with that is, they would've gone the opposite of what they said they wouldn't do. Bottom line is, cash shops is coming to all SOE games whether you like it or not, whether you are paying for monthly or not. This will affect the regular paying servers sooner or later.
Sorry I didint make my sarcasm more clear. Im in agreement with you. Those who maintain that nothing will change in either game are in denial. The cash shop / payment models in both games are wide open for abuse and I fully expect it to be so. Im not an SOE hater as ive played EQ2 off and on for a couple of years, and I was with LOTRO since launch but playing either game is not an option for me now.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
They are restricting the amount of quests you can have in your journal, thats not too bad, i mean they want people to spend some money right ? otherwise they wouldn't make any at all.
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
Lets analyze this list here.
4 races/8 classes: this is as much as many MMOs offer period. Dont know what the pricing of additional races and classes will be. But given you have 2 tanks, t melee dps, 2 casters and 2 healers to choose from you have a fair amount to choose from
5 gold per level: Somewhat restricting, but the economy remains to be seen. Any realistic limitation goes away with the one time $10 purchase
Adept spells: You are absolutely fine into your 30s with Adepts, probably even quite a bit further. However Experts (for the $10 fee) are enough for most situations. This is what will make the $10 purchase happen.
Legendary/Fabled restrictions: This really only affects 'endgame'. Mastercrafted is not restricted, which is better than legendaries while leveling anyway. It takes away the fun of getting loot from instances though. And makes crafters in insanely high demand.
2 bag slots: This is a HUGE issue in many F2P games. Fact is, 2 slots goes a lot farther in EQ2 than most games as the bags are huge (once the crafters get up to make 32 and bigger bags). I wouldnt be surprised if bags are sold cheap for newbies as tailors will have other ways to make bigger money (mastercrafted). the $10 bonus of a 3rd bag slot will be plenty for most players.
Overall, EQ2 as its communicated today is BY FAR the best f2p game in terms of content and restrictions. You get a HUGE game, bigger than its P2P peers (Lotro, Aion, WoW), completely for free. You could feasibly be successful without even buying the $10 package, and really you are well set fi you pay the $10.
The only big negative is the no legendary/fabled loot, which takes away some of the fun of raiding. It doesnt take away from the actual content though, as there is an enormous amount of content that will be doable in MC gear and expert spells. Way more than youll find in WoW.
Again, the amount of accessible free content int his game is bigger than the content in the major fantasy p2p MMOs. Will f2p be able to do the absolute top tier of content? No, but theyll have PLENTY to do to push themselves.
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
Lets analyze this list here.
4 races/8 classes: this is as much as many MMOs offer period. Dont know what the pricing of additional races and classes will be. But given you have 2 tanks, t melee dps, 2 casters and 2 healers to choose from you have a fair amount to choose from
Four races is very little when some games offers eight to ten and eight classes is not very much either when some games offers twelve to twenty.
5 gold per level: Somewhat restricting, but the economy remains to be seen. Any realistic limitation goes away with the one time $10 purchase
Very restrictive indeed with the inflation that has been going on for years and years makes most high level things cost a truck load of gold or at least several platinum ingots.
Adept spells: You are absolutely fine into your 30s with Adepts, probably even quite a bit further. However Experts (for the $10 fee) are enough for most situations. This is what will make the $10 purchase happen.
No I am not fine with it.
Legendary/Fabled restrictions: This really only affects 'endgame'. Mastercrafted is not restricted, which is better than legendaries while leveling anyway. It takes away the fun of getting loot from instances though. And makes crafters in insanely high demand.
This I couldn't care less about since raiding is for dummies.
2 bag slots: This is a HUGE issue in many F2P games. Fact is, 2 slots goes a lot farther in EQ2 than most games as the bags are huge (once the crafters get up to make 32 and bigger bags). I wouldnt be surprised if bags are sold cheap for newbies as tailors will have other ways to make bigger money (mastercrafted). the $10 bonus of a 3rd bag slot will be plenty for most players.
What huge bags can you buy with the five gold limit?
Overall, EQ2 as its communicated today is BY FAR the best f2p game in terms of content and restrictions. You get a HUGE game, bigger than its P2P peers (Lotro, Aion, WoW), completely for free. You could feasibly be successful without even buying the $10 package, and really you are well set fi you pay the $10.
Why do you think that they are giving away the content from the expansions for free?
You will get what was in EQ II back at when it launched meaning Qeynos and Freeport with it's surrounding areas.
The only big negative is the no legendary/fabled loot, which takes away some of the fun of raiding. It doesnt take away from the actual content though, as there is an enormous amount of content that will be doable in MC gear and expert spells. Way more than youll find in WoW.
Again couldn't care less about raiding and in fact this is what destroyed the original EQ for most people.
Again, the amount of accessible free content int his game is bigger than the content in the major fantasy p2p MMOs. Will f2p be able to do the absolute top tier of content? No, but theyll have PLENTY to do to push themselves. Legendary/Fabled restriction:
Again you assume that they will give away the content from all the expansions for free.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Didnt they just say a month ago this was never going to happen to EQ2. SOE needs to burn in flames and cannot believe people still play their games.
No...they didn't. Apparently you people whining and bitching about this have problems READING.
They are not offering EQ2 as free to play. They are offering EQ2 Extended as, essentially, a very very extended TRIAL of the game....free. It doesn't affect EQ2 subscribers in any way, shape, or form. There are no "free to play" players on my server, and there won't be. Like the exchange servers....the f2p server(s)....is/are an entirely different thing.
And just FYI... a lot of us still play EQ2 and give our hard earned money to SoE every month because WE LIKE THE GAME. Seriously....the veteran subscriber base of EQ2....we're pretty hardcore about our game. You can play whatever you want, but I'll take my chances and stay with this outstanding game....thank you very much.
Finally a company does the f2p addition to subscription models RIGHT....and people still bitch. Amazing.
Didnt they just say a month ago this was never going to happen to EQ2. SOE needs to burn in flames and cannot believe people still play their games.
No...they didn't. Apparently you people whining and bitching about this have problems READING.
They are not offering EQ2 as free to play. They are offering EQ2 Extended as, essentially, a very very extended TRIAL of the game....free. It doesn't affect EQ2 subscribers in any way, shape, or form. There are no "free to play" players on my server, and there won't be. Like the exchange servers....the f2p server(s)....is/are an entirely different thing.
And just FYI... a lot of us still play EQ2 and give our hard earned money to SoE every month because WE LIKE THE GAME. Seriously....the veteran subscriber base of EQ2....we're pretty hardcore about our game. You can play whatever you want, but I'll take my chances and stay with this outstanding game....thank you very much.
Finally a company does the f2p addition to subscription models RIGHT....and people still bitch. Amazing.
If in the comming months they are merging servers on the subscription side, because soe enticed all the new players to play on fee2play servers and the subscription community is leaving they dieing servers as well, lets see if you still think soe is doing things the right way.
This is nothing more than an end around maneuver to make EQ2 a subscription + full blown cash shop game. It even gives less to subscribers on the free to play side.
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
Lets analyze this list here.
4 races/8 classes: this is as much as many MMOs offer period. Dont know what the pricing of additional races and classes will be. But given you have 2 tanks, t melee dps, 2 casters and 2 healers to choose from you have a fair amount to choose from
Four races is very little when some games offers eight to ten and eight classes is not very much either when some games offers twelve to twenty. Note that LOTRO f2p is offering 4 races and 7 classes. The biggest p2p only has 10 classes
5 gold per level: Somewhat restricting, but the economy remains to be seen. Any realistic limitation goes away with the one time $10 purchase
Very restrictive indeed with the inflation that has been going on for years and years makes most high level things cost a truck load of gold or at least several platinum ingots. This isnt a regular server. high level people will have access to 4p or 16p, and the servers economy will likely reflect this
Adept spells: You are absolutely fine into your 30s with Adepts, probably even quite a bit further. However Experts (for the $10 fee) are enough for most situations. This is what will make the $10 purchase happen.
No I am not fine with it.The ONLY people that will have an issue with this are people that played EQ2 before. These are the people that have been spoiled leveling with master spells. People that have never played eq2 will be absolutely fine with adepts, the game may just seem harder. Swappingto expert spells at higher level is all anyone realistically needs. especially you, who doesnt care about raiding
Legendary/Fabled restrictions: This really only affects 'endgame'. Mastercrafted is not restricted, which is better than legendaries while leveling anyway. It takes away the fun of getting loot from instances though. And makes crafters in insanely high demand.
This I couldn't care less about since raiding is for dummies.
2 bag slots: This is a HUGE issue in many F2P games. Fact is, 2 slots goes a lot farther in EQ2 than most games as the bags are huge (once the crafters get up to make 32 and bigger bags). I wouldnt be surprised if bags are sold cheap for newbies as tailors will have other ways to make bigger money (mastercrafted). the $10 bonus of a 3rd bag slot will be plenty for most players.
What huge bags can you buy with the five gold limit?its 5 gold per level. so, at level10 you will have 50g. Pretty sure even on the inflated live servers you can buy a 40 slot for 50g
Overall, EQ2 as its communicated today is BY FAR the best f2p game in terms of content and restrictions. You get a HUGE game, bigger than its P2P peers (Lotro, Aion, WoW), completely for free. You could feasibly be successful without even buying the $10 package, and really you are well set fi you pay the $10.
Why do you think that they are giving away the content from the expansions for free? They have said they are. everything but sentinel's fate
You will get what was in EQ II back at when it launched meaning Qeynos and Freeport with it's surrounding areas.
The only big negative is the no legendary/fabled loot, which takes away some of the fun of raiding. It doesnt take away from the actual content though, as there is an enormous amount of content that will be doable in MC gear and expert spells. Way more than youll find in WoW.
Again couldn't care less about raiding and in fact this is what destroyed the original EQ for most people.
Again, the amount of accessible free content int his game is bigger than the content in the major fantasy p2p MMOs. Will f2p be able to do the absolute top tier of content? No, but theyll have PLENTY to do to push themselves. Legendary/Fabled restriction:
Again you assume that they will give away the content from all the expansions for free.go reread the announcement. This is exactly what they are doing. Name another f2p game that is this robust without spending a cent and practically fully playable for only a one time $10 fee.
Comments
With DDO they do get far more updates and additions today. Which makes me assume they've expanded the team at least a little, which would raise costs for sure. Now the question is would SOE do the same? If the changes have a positive impact on eq2 in terms of profit.
I doubt they would given their track record they'd just "borrow" a few from one of their other titles.
It's hard to say at this point how both LOTRO and EQ2 will do after their transition. From the sound of it, there's not much incentive to play for free, little to none anyway, outside of it being free. There's quite a bit of restriction on you though.
I've never really heard the complaint that EQ2 or LOTRO weren't worth a sub. With those two games it's been more about mechanics or lore, as to why people don't play. In DDO's case things were different, a lot of people felt the game was decent just not worth a sub, that's judging by forum posts of course. Which isn't worth much, in the greater scheme of things.
I have a hard time assuming either way, it's really in the air IMO if this will be a successful venture or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's a complete lie. Everybody knows EQ2 sold lots of initial copies in 2004, but then went through 2 years of revamps because players didn't like what they saw. Population went downhill for EQ2. Even EQ1 had higher subscription numbers than EQ2 up until perhaps a year or two ago. Everybody knows server merges mean you have lost subscribers, and they've gone through a couple already, now contemplating another round.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
These mergers couldnt be to free up servers for the F2P model could they?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
1) SOE said they were going to merge the EQ2 servers just a few months ago. The holdup was that last expansion fubared the servers and made a mess of the game (see point 2 also). Sorry, but EQ2 has seen plenty of decline. That is why people are migrating to 1 server and they have had several rounds of server mergers.
2) SOE took the quantity over quality approach to the everquest franchise and it has cost them. See point 1 for the results of that. Even the president of the company has admitted their rushed approach to content has hurt the quality and image of their game, but then again he said they were going to listen to player feedback and communicate more openly with the players... several times now (see point 5)
3) True SOE is doing something different, but again they are rushing into something that has zero player feedback and not testing.
4) True
5) Again true, but the magnitudes of such statements are miles apart. Blizzard didn't make a statement about the transfers while still planning to allow it years down the road. Things changed and they were wrong, but not done with the intention to deceive.
Soe makes promises with their fingers crossed. They know they are not going to keep their word and they are making statements with the full intention of deceiving the customers. That is a direct lie.
They just said less than 30 days ago that EQ2 was not going free to play. See the difference?
I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. It isn't like soe has extra money laying around to buy more hardware for new servers. Seeing they just had a second round of job layoffs.
I am really starting to wonder if this isn't just another one of SOEs experiments to see how this model will work with one of their upcoming games. It would fit their methods.
It's very unlikely in my opinion that servers are a problem for them. SOE likely have a good contract with Dell and buys servers in mass quantities, and cheaper than people would buying them one at a time. The cost of new hardware is likely a lot less than the cost of time it takes to develop new ruleset.
This is without knowing how EQ2 is setup, or their network infrustructure. Sometimes when they "add a server", they could simply be adding a new drive array, or utilizing the existing servers they have but simply opening up a new "instance".
Companies don't just merge servers for fun, they do it because players demand it due to low population. And having followed EQ2's official forum, I can say there has been plenty of times when people asked when the next round of merges are going to be.
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I agree EQ2 hasn't declined as much as most MMOs, but server mergers are the only reason why you still feel like populations are similar over the last 3 years.
I thought it was somewhat confusing.
My understanding is, you want to play the game P2P. You subscribe, you pay 14.95 a month, and you go on a subscription server. There is NO CASH shop in that server, players CANNOT BUY ITEMS.
OR, you want to play F2P, you don't subscribe, and you long on to a F2P server, and THERE IS A CASH SHOP.
The Subscription PLayers and the Cash Shop players are on different servers, and NEVER play together on the same server?
If that's the case, this is fine with me.
I HATE cash shops, would never play a game with a cash shop in the game.
But if there is a subscription based server with NO CASH SHOP, then the fact that there are cash shop servers doesn't bother me.
I won't play on the cash shop servers, but if other players want to, go ahead, have fun!
The "pretend there's no cash shop on the server" argument is retarded. In that case, close your eyes and pretend you're not on a forum but playing a cool sandbox MMORPG.
That is all well and true, but I think overall we are looking at a company with declining revenue and increasing expenses. I don't suspect they have tons of cash to throw around, even if the prices were good.
That's a complete lie. Everybody knows EQ2 sold lots of initial copies in 2004, but then went through 2 years of revamps because players didn't like what they saw. Population went downhill for EQ2. Even EQ1 had higher subscription numbers than EQ2 up until perhaps a year or two ago. Everybody knows server merges mean you have lost subscribers, and they've gone through a couple already, now contemplating another round.
Im talking about the last 3 years or so. EQ2 declined its first 3 years, but its been stable since, comparatively.There is a cash shop on all servers in EQ2. So why not just have the free players join the old servers with some restrictions. Instead no new players are going to join the old servers leaving them to die...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
And you didn't think this was part of the plan? Come on, they all sat in a meeting room, thought about what would happen if they did this. Of course they know new players will always go to the free server first, what a great way to play and level up without paying monthly. So your old servers would see less and less population, eventually SOE will come and merge it all together and tell you they're doing you a favor.
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This is exactly what I see happening. Turbine and Soe know whats best for their players, even if the player dont.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Ya SoE and Turbine are doing it for the players. And if ya belive that I got a bridge in brooklyn ill sell ya.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
The problem with that is, they would've gone the opposite of what they said they wouldn't do. Bottom line is, cash shops is coming to all SOE games whether you like it or not, whether you are paying for monthly or not. This will affect the regular paying servers sooner or later.
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Sorry I didint make my sarcasm more clear. Im in agreement with you. Those who maintain that nothing will change in either game are in denial. The cash shop / payment models in both games are wide open for abuse and I fully expect it to be so. Im not an SOE hater as ive played EQ2 off and on for a couple of years, and I was with LOTRO since launch but playing either game is not an option for me now.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
This is a market trend and it will continue to become more common. There just so many MMO titles these days.
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
They are restricting the amount of quests you can have in your journal, thats not too bad, i mean they want people to spend some money right ? otherwise they wouldn't make any at all.
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It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
Lets analyze this list here. 4 races/8 classes: this is as much as many MMOs offer period. Dont know what the pricing of additional races and classes will be. But given you have 2 tanks, t melee dps, 2 casters and 2 healers to choose from you have a fair amount to choose from 5 gold per level: Somewhat restricting, but the economy remains to be seen. Any realistic limitation goes away with the one time $10 purchase Adept spells: You are absolutely fine into your 30s with Adepts, probably even quite a bit further. However Experts (for the $10 fee) are enough for most situations. This is what will make the $10 purchase happen. Legendary/Fabled restrictions: This really only affects 'endgame'. Mastercrafted is not restricted, which is better than legendaries while leveling anyway. It takes away the fun of getting loot from instances though. And makes crafters in insanely high demand. 2 bag slots: This is a HUGE issue in many F2P games. Fact is, 2 slots goes a lot farther in EQ2 than most games as the bags are huge (once the crafters get up to make 32 and bigger bags). I wouldnt be surprised if bags are sold cheap for newbies as tailors will have other ways to make bigger money (mastercrafted). the $10 bonus of a 3rd bag slot will be plenty for most players. Overall, EQ2 as its communicated today is BY FAR the best f2p game in terms of content and restrictions. You get a HUGE game, bigger than its P2P peers (Lotro, Aion, WoW), completely for free. You could feasibly be successful without even buying the $10 package, and really you are well set fi you pay the $10. The only big negative is the no legendary/fabled loot, which takes away some of the fun of raiding. It doesnt take away from the actual content though, as there is an enormous amount of content that will be doable in MC gear and expert spells. Way more than youll find in WoW. Again, the amount of accessible free content int his game is bigger than the content in the major fantasy p2p MMOs. Will f2p be able to do the absolute top tier of content? No, but theyll have PLENTY to do to push themselves.Legendary/Fabled restriction:
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
No...they didn't. Apparently you people whining and bitching about this have problems READING.
They are not offering EQ2 as free to play. They are offering EQ2 Extended as, essentially, a very very extended TRIAL of the game....free. It doesn't affect EQ2 subscribers in any way, shape, or form. There are no "free to play" players on my server, and there won't be. Like the exchange servers....the f2p server(s)....is/are an entirely different thing.
And just FYI... a lot of us still play EQ2 and give our hard earned money to SoE every month because WE LIKE THE GAME. Seriously....the veteran subscriber base of EQ2....we're pretty hardcore about our game. You can play whatever you want, but I'll take my chances and stay with this outstanding game....thank you very much.
Finally a company does the f2p addition to subscription models RIGHT....and people still bitch. Amazing.
If in the comming months they are merging servers on the subscription side, because soe enticed all the new players to play on fee2play servers and the subscription community is leaving they dieing servers as well, lets see if you still think soe is doing things the right way.
This is nothing more than an end around maneuver to make EQ2 a subscription + full blown cash shop game. It even gives less to subscribers on the free to play side.
That's SOE they'll "never" do something until they do it....
It's way too restrictive for a free to play model with that you have to pay $10 to get any skills and spells above the beginning level so most people will try out the game but not fork out the $10 needed to get the proper game.
And why restrict the amount of quests that you can have to just 20?
This will piss off many players and possibly make them quit and it will NOT incite them to pay the ten dollars thats needed.
SOE fails again.
Lets analyze this list here.
4 races/8 classes: this is as much as many MMOs offer period. Dont know what the pricing of additional races and classes will be. But given you have 2 tanks, t melee dps, 2 casters and 2 healers to choose from you have a fair amount to choose fromFour races is very little when some games offers eight to ten and eight classes is not very much either when some games offers twelve to twenty.
5 gold per level: Somewhat restricting, but the economy remains to be seen. Any realistic limitation goes away with the one time $10 purchaseNote that LOTRO f2p is offering 4 races and 7 classes. The biggest p2p only has 10 classes
Very restrictive indeed with the inflation that has been going on for years and years makes most high level things cost a truck load of gold or at least several platinum ingots. This isnt a regular server. high level people will have access to 4p or 16p, and the servers economy will likely reflect this
Adept spells: You are absolutely fine into your 30s with Adepts, probably even quite a bit further. However Experts (for the $10 fee) are enough for most situations. This is what will make the $10 purchase happen.No I am not fine with it.The ONLY people that will have an issue with this are people that played EQ2 before. These are the people that have been spoiled leveling with master spells. People that have never played eq2 will be absolutely fine with adepts, the game may just seem harder. Swappingto expert spells at higher level is all anyone realistically needs. especially you, who doesnt care about raiding
Legendary/Fabled restrictions: This really only affects 'endgame'. Mastercrafted is not restricted, which is better than legendaries while leveling anyway. It takes away the fun of getting loot from instances though. And makes crafters in insanely high demand.This I couldn't care less about since raiding is for dummies.
2 bag slots: This is a HUGE issue in many F2P games. Fact is, 2 slots goes a lot farther in EQ2 than most games as the bags are huge (once the crafters get up to make 32 and bigger bags). I wouldnt be surprised if bags are sold cheap for newbies as tailors will have other ways to make bigger money (mastercrafted). the $10 bonus of a 3rd bag slot will be plenty for most players.What huge bags can you buy with the five gold limit?its 5 gold per level. so, at level10 you will have 50g. Pretty sure even on the inflated live servers you can buy a 40 slot for 50g
Overall, EQ2 as its communicated today is BY FAR the best f2p game in terms of content and restrictions. You get a HUGE game, bigger than its P2P peers (Lotro, Aion, WoW), completely for free. You could feasibly be successful without even buying the $10 package, and really you are well set fi you pay the $10.