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The Honor System will cripple the PvP servers (2 months in)
Ramonski7
Member UncommonPosts: 2,662
I mean don't get me wrong, but think about this:
Currently no matter how fragile it seems, there is a certain level of respect between the Horde and the Alliance. When questing you can count on at least 30% of the opposing faction passing you up when you are doing a quest, those numbers shoot up to about 70% if they are alone or doing the same quest. But when the Honor system is introduced you can be your bottom dollar that it all that will change.
What's even scarier is that as it stands now, level 60's get a 12 level cushion for a honorable kill (The same for mobs that still would have given you exp). That means anyone level 48 and above will reap in points. Now if you was a level 60 with nothing to do except pick your nose between raid groups (Mind you Blizzard already stated they will release the Honor System BEFORE the Battleground patch). Wouldn't you be trying to hunt down players to rack up a few honor points, better yet why bother TRYING to kill something close to your level when you can farm 48-50's quicker and for far less trouble?
A sad, sad day indeed for middies. I just hope Blizzard puts in a different chart for gauging players instead of using the same formula they use for mobs....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Comments
The honor system was supposed to be in the game from retail, so the game as you've been playing it is incomplete.
A more realistic statement would be "The Honor System will make the PvP servers be how they should have been at retail".
If you don't like it, that's unfortunate.
Just because a system has not been implemented DOES NOT mean it's not flawed.....and if it was so complete why wasn't it put in before now? Maybe they saw the potential for a even bigger problem and scraped the old system? Who knows. All I'm saying is that the way things are, there is very little reason to go out of your way to hunt players below your level.
But now Blizzard in it's infinate wisdom is providing a system in it's 2nd or more revision and giving higher lvl players even more incentives to hunt down that lvl 48........
Mind you I don't mind at all I love PvP and if you are ever on Mannaroth look me up. Me and my buddies will gladly track you down and add you to our point total:
Nomar level 59 Paladin
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Errr... OK
If you don't like it, that's unfortunate.
You assumed I was a victim as I am only trying to level the playing field.
Then you believe that a flawed system makes a game complete.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
i agree with you, but didnt blizz say that the lower a lvl player is they will be worth less honor. also when you kill a certain player once, the next time you kill them they will be worth less and less honor.
I agree with the original poster... 2 weeks ago when I was thinking about the honor system one night on my 60 shaman I was scouting out areas were I could attack with ease... Tanaris and The Crater were what I came up with as my ideal spots of destruction..... Both those areas have tons of Mid 40's to low 50's in them.... They need to do something about the cushion in PVP...Bring the lvls more in range I would say +- 5 would be a hell of a lot better, since atleast you have some chance if your a lower lvl...
As it is going to stand right now, expect to see tons of high lvls farming on lower level characters..
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
No. I don't share your opinion that the system is flawed.
And when it comes down to it, when the honor system is implemented I'll be enjoying it and you'll be whining about it.
Congratulations.
WoW Destromath!
A
Revion lvl 70 Warrior
Altar of Storms
A
Smeagol 60 Paladin
Aggamagen
H
Revion 60 Rogue
some people are far 2 carebarish for their own good. Horde and alliance should NEVER allow eachother to kill and quest in peace, why shuold they? Griefing and PKing is fun and shouldn't be passed up on. Personally i prefer it when the group of 45's decide to rally up 10-15 of them and i just bring a priest along and destroy them all. When the honor system comes around i will be farming lower levels as they will be farming the mobs. Want a safe zone? go into an instance
kthx goodbye carebears
i think it is a little early to start thinking the system is flawed when we didn't ever saw it in action.
As blizzard said, multiple times, Lower level players, as logical, will be worthy less points than higher level. what they left out (and i am sure this is one of the point they can and will change more to curb excessive lowbie ganking) is how much less points a lowbie gives.
Let's suppose, to be optimistic just for once, that a level 48 gives a level 60 1 honor point. A level 50 gives 5, a level 51 gives 10 and so on. to a maximum of 100 for a level 60.
As you see what is better? Killing 100 level 48 or 1 level 60? i would take option number 2, dunno about you.
I doubt Blizzard liked Lowbie gankers. i am quite sure they will do what they can to limit such, unavoidable on pvp servers, events.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
my only complaint is that so little is known, blizzard said it shouldnt be a problem.
and NONE of us have ever experience the system. Before you scream nerf, or fix... Atleast wait till its out.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Well don't get me wrong I love killing. I even think that the move to restrict honor points for player kills is a smart move.
Way to go Blizzard. I mean how can killing a NPC to get honor points for a PvP system be anything BUT flawed? 
Anyway I participate in PvP when ever the defense call goes out on my server (Never can have too much experience). And I've even taken it upon myself to force feed basic formations by broadcasting in Ironforge and how they work (Call me a nut).
And the last thing I do in a battle is pass up killing the enemy (10 lvl 40 will take down a 60 any day). But what I don't want is to find that players are avoiding higher lvl areas just to rack up points. But like I said if what was said earlier is true about NPCs not being counted, then at least it's a step in the right direction.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
The PvP HONOR system is based on honor and I am sure a group of people will look at it as such. If it isn't an even match, and they can't kill you with honor, they might just skip you over. The number may drop from 30% considerably but it won't go all the way down to 0%.
What've i've been wondering about is two "flaws" with the honor system (maybe it will be cleared up or something)
1. AOE attacks= in larger PVP raids AOE (Area of Effect...blizzard...rain of fire...etc.) is used quite often. Now what happens if you hit some low guys who are just tagging along, is that truely fair if your intent wasn't to kill them or hit them at all but they get in the way of the crossfire?
2. What happens when you get a bunch of cocky level 30's trying to take out a lvl 50 (for example purposes) Well obviously a group of 30's could be quite an annoyance and usually you'll want to kill them. But here comes the honor system telling you its wrong to!
Hopefully im just missing something in the whole PVP honor system and these are solved, and just bringing it to others attention.
Truth of the matter is there is no penalty for killing lower level players in WoW honor system. When asked why, Blizzard's answer was simply that at this time they do not wish to penalize players for participating in a open PvP setting as there are too many factors that would need to be taken into account to make a system like that. Or something to that. Dunno to me you cannot have one without the other it just seems to me that they are half-assing it. Oh sure they have a little tally going for dishonorable kills, but that WAS just for NPCs and now that NPCs cannot be killed for honor points who knows how they are planning to keep that tag in the system.
My simple plan is to just lower the cushion for a honorable kill from 12 lvls to say maybe 5, I mean sure it won't stop ganking or anything (All is fair in love and war), but it would go a long way in maintaining the "Honor" in the honor system. Leaving that decision on the shoulders of the players to police themselves is both foolhardy and ignorant to your own gaming community's mentality.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I would have to assume that if I was lvl 60 and I heard that the opposing faction was constantly picking on lower lvl's at a certain place, I would occasionally do a patrol over there. I don't know much about the game at higher lvls, but it would seem that patrols would be set up to keep opposing factions from even entering certain contested territories.
For example, that one spot in Orgimarr where a sea vessel stops. I see high lvl alliance get off that thing all the time. Wouldn't spots like that become a battleground in a way to keep opposing factions from coming over?
I no longer play world of warcraft but I will say this in defense of other people, so this doesnt end up in a flame war. The new Honor System is flawed only by personal opinion.
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
No. I don't share your opinion that the system is flawed.
And when it comes down to it, when the honor system is implemented I'll be enjoying it and you'll be whining about it.
Congratulations.
Ok first my statement holds more truth to it than you guys are giving it credit for. And before you start calling it a opinion let's look at some facts:
1) The Honor system is not implemented in the game yet.....fact.
2) The Honor system is currently being tested on the TEST server....fact.
3) The Test server is used to test things in the beta stage....fact.
4) The Honor system is currently still in the beta stage.......fact.
5) Beta is considered to be incomplete by a majority of the gaming community.....fact.
6) Incomplete is a synonym for flawed......fact.
7)The Honor system as it was announced by Blizzard is therefor flawed...fact
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
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Omol da'Ox
No. I don't share your opinion that the system is flawed.
And when it comes down to it, when the honor system is implemented I'll be enjoying it and you'll be whining about it.
Congratulations.
Ok first my statement holds more truth to it than you guys are giving it credit for. And before you start calling it a opinion let's look at some facts:
1) The Honor system is not implemented in the game yet.....fact.
2) The Honor system is currently being tested on the TEST server....fact.
3) The Test server is used to test things in the beta stage....fact.
4) The Honor system is currently still in the beta stage.......fact.
5) Beta is considered to be incomplete by a majority of the gaming community.....fact.
6) Incomplete is a synonym for flawed......fact.
7)The Honor system as it was announced by Blizzard is therefor flawed...fact
Truly hilarious attempt to skew reality, but still just an opinion. Sorry. Nothing is perfect because perfection is an unfulfillable abstract concept, but it doesn't logically follow that everything is flawed, otherwise the accepted use of the word "flawed" becomes meaningless and without justifiable definition.
So to recap, in your opinion the honor system proposed by Blizzard is flawed and when it comes out you'll be playing WoW with your bottom lip stuck out because you didn't get things your way, and in my opinion the proposed honor system isn't flawed and I'll be having a great time and loving it.
Congratulations.
All this topic is just a clueless rambling about things you have no idea about and therefore make up your own "facts". Please stop.
Ok since you two think my logic is retarded (couldn't think of anything more civil to say) let me make is even MORE simple for you:
5) Beta is incomplete......fact
And you have yet to prove any of my facts as opinioin. Just because you don't like the sound of it doesn't make it wrong........or did you two not know that? If you think the FACTS that I have stated are wrong please feel free to post something supporting your own beliefs instead of trying to pick holes in mine. It just goes to show you who's actually is being ruled by their own emotions (a trait when forming opinions).
And for the record I never stated that the system HAD to be perfect, but it's clear that it's NOT ready in the eyes of it's own creators. And if it's not ready......guess what? It's not finish. I still stand by what I said:
The Honor system that Blizzard announced on it's own website is FLAWED. Why else would they keep it from going live? I rest my case.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
ah! you were doing well and the debate was interesting..... but now, to be right at ALL costs, you changed from "the honor system, in its final implementation, will be flawed if not changed"
to "the honor system is flawed cause it is not fisnished"????
So, once out, all the "flaws" go away and it is perfect? good. then discussion is over, let them do their job and "unflaw" the "flawed" honor system.
By the way, a flawed thing, by definition, is a complete item that has flaws (ie: mistakes, bad features) even if complete. I do not call incomplete things flawed.... cause they are incomplete eh! and being incomplete, in my opinion, is not a flaw.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Keep this Civil.
For those who cant, read Volmars post, take a few notes, and then learn from it. So far, he has had the best post on the 2nd page of this thread.
KillerTwinkie - That one guy who used to mod mmorpg.com's forums.
Originally posted by Zrazik
You've made a moronic mistake at point 5), threfore your other conclusions weren't right.
But what you've discovered? OMG the system is incoplete!111! Not shit Sherlock, do you have any more obvious info for us? The system is still being worked on, so they didn't realease it, outrageous! Seriously, what's your point, to bump post count?
Such harsh words from someone who claims to think of me as having failed logic. Why is it that you insist on your attempts of proving me an idiot? Did I kill your dog or something? Maybe I stole something from you in another life perhaps? I don 't know, but before you shoot off at the mouth again maybe you should read up on the post and you'll see the method to my so called "madness". So thinking that a majority of the gaming community sees beta as incomplete is moronic eh? Maybe if I word it different you will see the point I was obviously trying to make:
Beta- A term widely used in the software-developing community for a program/system that is not finished or near completion.
Is that a fact or an OPINION? I'll let you decided. Just because I added a few words to make a connection that some players here would get, you deemed me a moron? Come on, get your emotions in check. No matter how it's worded it's still a fact. And one that you seem to think does not hold merit.
They system may not be perfect(get it already), but you've entirely missed the resons why could it be flawed. Instead you've managed to show that you fail at logic.
Ok so you think that the statement that I made is obvious? Then why did it take you so many post to actually get that? I knew from the get go it was OBVIOUS but others were bent on proving my statements otherwise.
So what's your problem? You are not lvl60 already so want it delayed until you are safer on PvP servers? We don't need any more limitations to PvP actions, and this system encourages them. And it's about time they finally put it on the live servers.
As a matter of fact you're right I'm not lvl 60, I'm 50k from 60, but that's besides the point. What I'm looking for is a system that allows "Honorable" PvP between like people. Killing players 12 levels below you or killing NPCs to get honor points to me is NOT a system promoting healthy PvP. I'm sorry. Maybe they should just name it the "Rewards for getting the most points killing faction NPC/lower level players" system. Then I would not have a problem with it.
A lot can be said from the words one chooses when conveying a message. (As you have so graciously pointed out in my 5th statement
) And in doing so Blizzard has now started backpeddling in a attempt to live true to the word "Honor" it has so carelessly attached to it's PvP system. And with that said and they do go live with their PvP system. Then and ONLY then will my statement be proven a wrong.
But my only true focus with this topic before it was hijacked by the anal-retentive fact/flawed police, was that in my OPINION the way the last honor system setup was explained to us by Blizzard, it would have made it truely rare to find actual honor in a PvP setting within the game. *Thus crippling the PvP elements on PvP servers.
*[i]Added the last statement to promote continuity.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."