lol I figured Tarka would be all over this thread...
As for SWTOR having issues... well i do agree on the graphics part and combat. Combat doesn't seem to be as smooth as one would expect from something having to do with Star Wars. And as for graphics... it isn't so great compared to other upcoming mmos...
Story is alright I guess.
Social play... don't really see an issue there. The way I see it, If you have two "heroic" characters in PvP, it makes for a more epic battle.
So yeah.
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.
Ceridith- NGE did change the game in a very negative way, I agree, but even vanilla SWG had blatant problems (as do many other MMOs). Severely imbalanced classes, a ton of bugs (WAR's release comes to mind), and very (imo) bland adventuring. All this compounds to make a frustrating PvE and PvP experience. SWG wasn't perfect as many claim it to be, and I'm glad TOR isn't being made with SWG in mind.
That said, I'm also not very happy that TOR seems to be ripping off what games like WoW and WAR have already done. I figured Bioware would at least try to innovate something else than how quests are given/player choices. But the truth is, the Bioware making TOR is not the same Bioware many of us are used to. It's a newer studio and this is their first game in that studio.
Locke- I don't think any "risk" has gone into this game yet, at least not from what I've seen. They don't seem to be changing systems around or how they work. The only game at the moment that comes to mind for "risk" is GW2. They're at least innovating multiple gameplay systems, but it's always a "wait & see".
I never claimed that the original SWG was perfect. I'm well aware that it had bugs and balance issues, I know I suffered at times from them. But those things can, and were being fixed before they drastically altered the game. When people are asking for a SWG back, they don't want it ridden with bugs and balance issues. What they want is the ideals and game philosophy of SWG back.
For many who played SWG, it's the fundamental concepts of the game that made SWG so much more superior to so many other MMOs that are out there now, even despite all of the bugs and balance issues. Too many MMOs are nothing more than instance ridden quest grinds that might as well be single player games with online lobbies, as player impact on the game and other players being pretty much non-existent. There's absolutely no reason for online communities in today's MMOs, which is why the MMO communities are so terrible today.
Well said, well said. I never expected TOR to be SWG2. But well... I had some hopes it would keep some those aspects which the SWG players loved. Like freedom and social gameplay. Apparently besides being Star Wars they kept NOTHING in the design of TOR, and I find that unfortunate. SWG were the damn best days. And no matter how many millions will play TOR... SWG will always remain the superior brother, unless they really turn the thing around in some aspects.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There is alot of (I this and I that) in this post, it seems to be just personal opinion to the extream, this is not a bad thing but should not be given credence as anything but personal opinion, with the game still a long way off (yes it could be delayed more than it already has been) it is hard to tell how the finished product will come out, or what changes they will make between now and release and even after release, so deep breath and see how it comes out.
Ceridith- NGE did change the game in a very negative way, I agree, but even vanilla SWG had blatant problems (as do many other MMOs). Severely imbalanced classes, a ton of bugs (WAR's release comes to mind), and very (imo) bland adventuring. All this compounds to make a frustrating PvE and PvP experience. SWG wasn't perfect as many claim it to be, and I'm glad TOR isn't being made with SWG in mind.
That said, I'm also not very happy that TOR seems to be ripping off what games like WoW and WAR have already done. I figured Bioware would at least try to innovate something else than how quests are given/player choices. But the truth is, the Bioware making TOR is not the same Bioware many of us are used to. It's a newer studio and this is their first game in that studio.
Locke- I don't think any "risk" has gone into this game yet, at least not from what I've seen. They don't seem to be changing systems around or how they work. The only game at the moment that comes to mind for "risk" is GW2. They're at least innovating multiple gameplay systems, but it's always a "wait & see".
I never claimed that the original SWG was perfect. I'm well aware that it had bugs and balance issues, I know I suffered at times from them. But those things can, and were being fixed before they drastically altered the game. When people are asking for a SWG back, they don't want it ridden with bugs and balance issues. What they want is the ideals and game philosophy of SWG back.
For many who played SWG, it's the fundamental concepts of the game that made SWG so much more superior to so many other MMOs that are out there now, even despite all of the bugs and balance issues. Too many MMOs are nothing more than instance ridden quest grinds that might as well be single player games with online lobbies, as player impact on the game and other players being pretty much non-existent. There's absolutely no reason for online communities in today's MMOs, which is why the MMO communities are so terrible today.
Well said, well said. I never expected TOR to be SWG2. But well... I had some hopes it would keep some those aspects which the SWG players loved. Like freedom and social gameplay. Apparently besides being Star Wars they kept NOTHING in the design of TOR, and I find that unfortunate. SWG were the damn best days. And no matter how many millions will play TOR... SWG will always remain the superior brother, unless they really turn the thing around in some aspects.
Such a silly opinion. You do realize that's what it is right, an opinion. This wasn't created by the same company that made SWG, thinking it would keep any aspect that SWG players loved is completely foolish on your part.
something i read recently (that im sure is old news) was about how the story/game is broken into chapters.
i was wondering, does this mean chapters as in the book quests in LOTRO-
or chapters as in you complete the tattoine portion, then move to naboo, then aldaran, etc- with no ability to go to other planets until that 'chapter' comes into play?
Why does it matter if ppl think sandbox suck? The course for SW:TOR is set.
No matter how much you want it SW:TOR fail out of spite, itll have a higher chance of succeeding in this form, then as some preCU SWG clone. Too few ppl want to play the '30min shuttle wait and decay' game.
Aint that the truth. Whilst PreCU may have had some nice concepts, the game as a whole MMO sucked and was bleeding subs even BEFORE the NGE was announced. This wasn't purely because of WoW, it was because there was parts of the game that had major issues that weren't being addressed. But certain people have a tendency to overlook such problems because they prefer to look through "rose tinted glasses".
Some people have so much hatred for ANY MMO that uses a formula that they don't like, that they feel an incessant urge to attempt to "predict" the failure of the game even before it launches. Just so they can then take comfort IF other MMO's "fail". It really is quite pathetic.
As much as I would love to see a "hybrid" MMO take the best bits from themepark and sandbox games and put them into a game that I find appealing, that has yet to happen. Predicting the failure of an MMO just because it happens to differ with ones own expectations is ridiculous and immature.
i don't know what your talking about. yes people did leave swg for wow but tons came back right before the cu and it was the cu and then the nge that ran everyone off swg. and those major issues? what the combat imbalance that people claimed swg had? first off know how hard it was to get to jedi you had to do this thing called work for it something that most gamers today don't want to do and rather they just want to sit there and do nothing. outside of that combat was fine. all swg had was a lack of 'content' for the single player questers but it had tons of player made content. and player made content is the whole idea of mmo's. i mean know how much fun people had with weekend long battles? no not a battle that lasted an hour or two but the whole weekend!
swg pre-cu was the better game no rose tinted glasses needed.
and look around we predicted that aoc wouldn't do good or warhammer. many of us said aion was going to bomb after the first month or two. so far i think those of us on here and over on the fringe are right.
Why does it matter if ppl think sandbox suck? The course for SW:TOR is set.
No matter how much you want it SW:TOR fail out of spite, itll have a higher chance of succeeding in this form, then as some preCU SWG clone. Too few ppl want to play the '30min shuttle wait and decay' game.
Aint that the truth. Whilst PreCU may have had some nice concepts, the game as a whole MMO sucked and was bleeding subs even BEFORE the NGE was announced. This wasn't purely because of WoW, it was because there was parts of the game that had major issues that weren't being addressed. But certain people have a tendency to overlook such problems because they prefer to look through "rose tinted glasses".
Some people have so much hatred for ANY MMO that uses a formula that they don't like, that they feel an incessant urge to attempt to "predict" the failure of the game even before it launches. Just so they can then take comfort IF other MMO's "fail". It really is quite pathetic.
As much as I would love to see a "hybrid" MMO take the best bits from themepark and sandbox games and put them into a game that I find appealing, that has yet to happen. Predicting the failure of an MMO just because it happens to differ with ones own expectations is ridiculous and immature.
i don't know what your talking about. yes people did leave swg for wow but tons came back right before the cu and it was the cu and then the nge that ran everyone off swg. and those major issues? what the combat imbalance that people claimed swg had? first off know how hard it was to get to jedi you had to do this thing called work for it something that most gamers today don't want to do and rather they just want to sit there and do nothing. outside of that combat was fine. all swg had was a lack of 'content' for the single player questers but it had tons of player made content. and player made content is the whole idea of mmo's. i mean know how much fun people had with weekend long battles? no not a battle that lasted an hour or two but the whole weekend!
swg pre-cu was the better game no rose tinted glasses needed.
and look around we predicted that aoc wouldn't do good or warhammer. many of us said aion was going to bomb after the first month or two. so far i think those of us on here and over on the fringe are right.
Thank you for proving how people look back on things with a pleasant light and tend to skip over anything that doesn't conform to being positive.
With regards to the problems with SWG Pre-CU, lets look at a few:
Combat in Pre-CU was "fine"? Seriously? How about the combat imbalances concerning certain overpowered class combinations i.e. Tera Kasi + Swordman (if i recall correctly). You didn't stand a chance against that "cookie cutter" setup in pvp.
Let's also not ignore the issues concerning the modified ("sliced"?) weapons which were extremely overpowered and were only removed from the game later.
Also (and this was a big issue for many) lets not forget the performance issues in populated areas (Correlia Starport lag being a prime example).
Then of course, there is the issues with the missions and dungeons, including mobs that shoot through walls (which, incidentally they still do to this day) and the introduction of the Corellian Corvette mission which was bugged to hell.
Bounty Hunter missions where the targets either disappeared or were found inside trees and buildings.
The point is that SWG Pre-CU had a LOT of issues that caused it to bleed players long before WoW was released, some of which I listed above. Now, I can appreciate that SWG Pre-CU had some good points, but it was far from "fine" as you make it sound to be. Maybe you should take off those tinted glasses and remember the game as it REALLY was. You may have been willing to overlook some of the games glaring issues at the time, but others weren't.
Now, I will agree though that another of SWG's Pre-NGE issues was concerned with the lack of content. Unfortunately, we will never know how the game would have turned out IF the NGE hadn't hit it. To dwell on such things is futile. The fact is that SWG Pre-CU was found by many to be lacking for a variety of reasons. And those reasons caused people to leave. Which only helped with WoW's popularity at the time.
Also please, don't try to generalise entire playerbases down to the level of people who just want instant gratification for no effort because that is a fallacy with no factual evidence to support it. Even WoW's playerbase isn't entirely (or even majorly) composed of such a mindset. There is a difference between someone who doesn't like a mindless grind such as the jedi quest in pre-cu, and someone who just wants something for nothing. It isn't as "black and white" as you make it sound.
I'm sorry but in my opinion "player made content" is often used as a poor excuse for lazy designers. I'm all for giving players tools to make their own content and not have to be forced to follow "progression paths" if they don't want to, but "player content" certainly shouldn't be used as the ONLY primary way for players to experience content in the game. And lets face it, aside from the Bounty Hunter missions, the repetitive mission terminals, and the "themepark" mission hubs, there wasn't much else in terms of content.
12 months after SWG's launch, players realised that they wanted developer made content in a polished MMO that didn't suffer the persistent issues and problems that SWG had at the time that didn't look as if they would be fixed...........cue the release of WoW.....
Thank you for proving how people look back on things with a pleasant light and tend to skip over anything that doesn't conform to being positive.
With regards to the problems with SWG Pre-CU, lets look at a few:
Combat in Pre-CU was "fine"? Seriously? How about the combat imbalances concerning certain overpowered class combinations i.e. Tera Kasi + Swordman (if i recall correctly). You didn't stand a chance against that "cookie cutter" setup in pvp.
Build a template that combats it? Such as master Fencer, pistoleer (for extra dodge and dizzy def>) 2 lines of doc, for cures and heals, Excellent template against jedi or defensive stackers such as TKM/S/Master brawler, there were few balance issues, if you knew how to build a character.
With the temp above no skill tapes or AA, your dodge is around 100, as is your kd (knockdown) defense, your dizzy def is 90, plus you have doc uses that add extra dizzy kd protection. You also with fencer have access to a wide range of dot weapons and area of effect attacks. As well as dizzy attacks and kd's. Beating the TKM temp above only required a knockdown dizzy my mind fire gaderffi using my dizzy attack over and over. Few could survive with no doc skills.
This is why the game was changed few knew how to play it, or understood it required knowledge to compete.
Sure the gamehad problems, as does any game, the reason it was changed was because as said above people didn't want to work at gaining knowledge. They wanted that purple that did the job for them.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I felt the CU was a much better system than Pre-CU. Like you guys were talking about the templates everyone would use, then come up with counters. This was one of the problems in Pre-CU, the imbalances that made some professions the only choice while some were left in the dark. Case in point, I wanted to be a Carbineer/CM, CM was fine and viable, but Carbineer was ridiculous. The costs of the abilities, without full-on buffs you could kill yourself using carbines. The CU fixed Carbineer, it also brought down melee (and Rifleman, thank god) to reasonable levels of competition.
The freedom back then wasn't as free as some would like to remember it, there were things you pretty much had to have to compete. You were either a stacker or you better hope they don't come after you. It always made me made how much love Rifleman got over Carbineer. But I digress. There was freedom, just not as much.
I felt the CU was a much better system than Pre-CU. Like you guys were talking about the templates everyone would use, then come up with counters. This was one of the problems in Pre-CU, the imbalances that made some professions the only choice while some were left in the dark. Case in point, I wanted to be a Carbineer/CM, CM was fine and viable, but Carbineer was ridiculous. The costs of the abilities, without full-on buffs you could kill yourself using carbines. The CU fixed Carbineer, it also brought down melee (and Rifleman, thank god) to reasonable levels of competition.
The freedom back then wasn't as free as some would like to remember it, there were things you pretty much had to have to compete. You were either a stacker or you better hope they don't come after you. It always made me made how much love Rifleman got over Carbineer. But I digress. There was freedom, just not as much.
Yep I know what you're saying there, that was due to a broken profession after taking severe nerfs. Early on carbines were the shiznit. They were nerfed to oblivion, to a point where pistols were far more deadly, which really made no sense.
Carbineer was only good for a few def stacking purposes and nothing else. The same with swordsman, they were gimped at many points over the pre-cu era. Toward the end they were pretty decent if I recall. Jedi really took up all the love they could give, the rest of us were the step children.
I digress simply to say I was more pointing out the very reason the game was changed, more so than trying to discuss templates. There were far to many things to learn outside of the game, on the internet or in game spending your time changing your template until you had it right. That was really the meat and potatoes of the game and most people didn't like that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm looking forward to seeing Bioware school all these other silly developers on how to make a proper MMORPG. Bioware is the best, I trust them to do it right. They do not fail.
All you people who talk bad about this game are like the bitch, preppy little girls that spread rumors in high school.
"Ohhh I'm disappointed!" Come on, the game isn't even out yet. Is it that hard for you people to just try it when it's out and THEN bitch about it?
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Why does it matter if ppl think sandbox suck? The course for SW:TOR is set.
No matter how much you want it SW:TOR fail out of spite, itll have a higher chance of succeeding in this form, then as some preCU SWG clone. Too few ppl want to play the '30min shuttle wait and decay' game.
Aint that the truth. Whilst PreCU may have had some nice concepts, the game as a whole MMO sucked and was bleeding subs even BEFORE the NGE was announced. This wasn't purely because of WoW, it was because there was parts of the game that had major issues that weren't being addressed. But certain people have a tendency to overlook such problems because they prefer to look through "rose tinted glasses".
Some people have so much hatred for ANY MMO that uses a formula that they don't like, that they feel an incessant urge to attempt to "predict" the failure of the game even before it launches. Just so they can then take comfort IF other MMO's "fail". It really is quite pathetic.
As much as I would love to see a "hybrid" MMO take the best bits from themepark and sandbox games and put them into a game that I find appealing, that has yet to happen. Predicting the failure of an MMO just because it happens to differ with ones own expectations is ridiculous and immature.
i don't know what your talking about. yes people did leave swg for wow but tons came back right before the cu and it was the cu and then the nge that ran everyone off swg. and those major issues? what the combat imbalance that people claimed swg had? first off know how hard it was to get to jedi you had to do this thing called work for it something that most gamers today don't want to do and rather they just want to sit there and do nothing. outside of that combat was fine. all swg had was a lack of 'content' for the single player questers but it had tons of player made content. and player made content is the whole idea of mmo's. i mean know how much fun people had with weekend long battles? no not a battle that lasted an hour or two but the whole weekend!
swg pre-cu was the better game no rose tinted glasses needed.
and look around we predicted that aoc wouldn't do good or warhammer. many of us said aion was going to bomb after the first month or two. so far i think those of us on here and over on the fringe are right.
Thank you for proving how people look back on things with a pleasant light and tend to skip over anything that doesn't conform to being positive.
With regards to the problems with SWG Pre-CU, lets look at a few:
Combat in Pre-CU was "fine"? Seriously? How about the combat imbalances concerning certain overpowered class combinations i.e. Tera Kasi + Swordman (if i recall correctly). You didn't stand a chance against that "cookie cutter" setup in pvp.
Let's also not ignore the issues concerning the modified ("sliced"?) weapons which were extremely overpowered and were only removed from the game later.
Also (and this was a big issue for many) lets not forget the performance issues in populated areas (Correlia Starport lag being a prime example).
Then of course, there is the issues with the missions and dungeons, including mobs that shoot through walls (which, incidentally they still do to this day) and the introduction of the Corellian Corvette mission which was bugged to hell.
Bounty Hunter missions where the targets either disappeared or were found inside trees and buildings.
The point is that SWG Pre-CU had a LOT of issues that caused it to bleed players long before WoW was released, some of which I listed above. Now, I can appreciate that SWG Pre-CU had some good points, but it was far from "fine" as you make it sound to be. Maybe you should take off those tinted glasses and remember the game as it REALLY was. You may have been willing to overlook some of the games glaring issues at the time, but others weren't.
Now, I will agree though that another of SWG's Pre-NGE issues was concerned with the lack of content. Unfortunately, we will never know how the game would have turned out IF the NGE hadn't hit it. To dwell on such things is futile. The fact is that SWG Pre-CU was found by many to be lacking for a variety of reasons. And those reasons caused people to leave. Which only helped with WoW's popularity at the time.
Also please, don't try to generalise entire playerbases down to the level of people who just want instant gratification for no effort because that is a fallacy with no factual evidence to support it. Even WoW's playerbase isn't entirely (or even majorly) composed of such a mindset. There is a difference between someone who doesn't like a mindless grind such as the jedi quest in pre-cu, and someone who just wants something for nothing. It isn't as "black and white" as you make it sound.
I'm sorry but in my opinion "player made content" is often used as a poor excuse for lazy designers. I'm all for giving players tools to make their own content and not have to be forced to follow "progression paths" if they don't want to, but "player content" certainly shouldn't be used as the ONLY primary way for players to experience content in the game. And lets face it, aside from the Bounty Hunter missions, the repetitive mission terminals, and the "themepark" mission hubs, there wasn't much else in terms of content.
12 months after SWG's launch, players realised that they wanted developer made content in a polished MMO that didn't suffer the persistent issues and problems that SWG had at the time that didn't look as if they would be fixed...........cue the release of WoW.....
*Points at your tinted glasse*
Maybe you need to remember how WoW really was at launch?
OP classes/weapons like the Warrior and arcanite reaper that before nerfs could destroy most classes. Gimped classes like the warlock that needed redone.
Horrible itemization- Mage items with agility? Melee weapons vs caster weapons that gave melee an instant huge boost where the caster needed an entire set of gear to see the same upgrade.
Where major cities and blackrock mountain constantly crashed
Bugged looting that required relogging
quests with horrible drop rates(yeti horn!).
As for SWG content, you're joking right? How about becoming a master crafter and creating a business? How about going on Night Sister or krayt hunts? How about organizing a base raid? Going shopping at one of many shopping outlets? All of the above could easily kill a few hours nightly which is more than equal to WoW's endgame, which <5% experienced if I remember correctly.
Could SWG have used more content? Absolutely but what game can't? I'd take a game like SWG that gives you freedom to do a bunch of things over WoW that give you 1-2 things to do. If you had SWG's crafting, non-combat classes, merchant system, player cities, player bases, and WoW's raids you would have a far better game.
Also giving players good tools to create content is far more complicated than churning out an artificially gated raid that forces players to grind it over and over again. The tools need to be user friendly but robust.enough to allow for a lot of different uses.
If you want to be Uncle Owen, SWG is still around people!
No it isn't actually. Coz the SWG they talk about was removed with the NGE....
As to SWToRs future, I think it will be successfull as Bioware has decided to cater to the mass crowd, and the Bioware crowd. Will I play it? Yes, I most likely will. Am I disappointed with what I know about it? Yes, I am, but that does not change the fact that I at least will try it out.
So has it issues? I think that depends on who you are asking. It will sell, but not s**tloads to the swg vets. And if you ask those (the swg vets, SWTOR has serious issues, many that are game breaking according to them)
That is just it though....who cares ff the SWG vets dont back the game? I sure dont. Seeing as how SOE dumped them back in 05, I dont think Developers give much thought to their numbers either as evidenced by the facts we still havent seen a AAA MMO in the PRECioUs mold.
By all accounts EVE is a GREAT game. I mean this sincerely. CCP has put a lot of luv into it. Yet it still cant top EQ1's sub numbers from 6 yrs ago(300k NA subs for EVE vs 450k NA subs for EQ1). WoW set the bar that much higher. A good themepark can have 300K+ subs easily....the ceiling for sandboxes is around 300k.
The SWG vets act like they were the only SW fans around in the 70s. Being born in 68, I assure you that isnt the case.
I can tell you why SWG didnt appeal to the majority of the older fans of the IP. Well at least those that enjoy PVE based games....such as myself. That would be cause we dont enjoy a "virtual stage" to have roleplay on. Which was SWG's strong point. Couple in the fact it was broken as hades at launch, and most folks didnt touch it with a ten foot pole. The ones that were new to the MMO genre, and picked it up despite all the information around stating what a broken game SWG was, quit in the first month....although some lasted a few months.
Within 6 months or so of launch, SOE was getting desperate due to how unfavored their virtual reality was received. The SW IP they were paying big money on, not the mention all the development money, was far behind EQ1 in subs. I have a feeling a CU/NGE would of happened without WoW. The sandbox concept just doesnt appeal to me, and PVE gamers like myself.
A game like EQ1....that is along the lines of what PVE gamers look for. Content to complete, and plenty of it. WoW has lessened the time comitment that EQ1 required, and it also has tons of content to complete. By making it easier in both complexity, and system requirements, they tore up on the casuals. The same folks that TOR is aiming for.
TOR would never see 1M subs if it was SWG2....no matter how the fanatics from the "fringe" keep trying to convince us otherwise. Sandbox MMOs are not what the majority want....just the vocal minority. I just wish they would finally STFU about the same chit we have heard the past 5 yrs.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I felt the CU was a much better system than Pre-CU. Like you guys were talking about the templates everyone would use, then come up with counters. This was one of the problems in Pre-CU, the imbalances that made some professions the only choice while some were left in the dark. Case in point, I wanted to be a Carbineer/CM, CM was fine and viable, but Carbineer was ridiculous. The costs of the abilities, without full-on buffs you could kill yourself using carbines. The CU fixed Carbineer, it also brought down melee (and Rifleman, thank god) to reasonable levels of competition.
The freedom back then wasn't as free as some would like to remember it, there were things you pretty much had to have to compete. You were either a stacker or you better hope they don't come after you. It always made me made how much love Rifleman got over Carbineer. But I digress. There was freedom, just not as much.
*nods* Yeah I found CU also an improvement. No longer this hilarious doctor buff wait-lines, and all that. CU made combat really way better, IMO as well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
lol I figured Tarka would be all over this thread...
As for SWTOR having issues... well i do agree on the graphics part and combat. Combat doesn't seem to be as smooth as one would expect from something having to do with Star Wars. And as for graphics... it isn't so great compared to other upcoming mmos...
Story is alright I guess.
Social play... don't really see an issue there. The way I see it, If you have two "heroic" characters in PvP, it makes for a more epic battle.
So yeah.
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.
Well said, well said. I never expected TOR to be SWG2. But well... I had some hopes it would keep some those aspects which the SWG players loved. Like freedom and social gameplay. Apparently besides being Star Wars they kept NOTHING in the design of TOR, and I find that unfortunate. SWG were the damn best days. And no matter how many millions will play TOR... SWG will always remain the superior brother, unless they really turn the thing around in some aspects.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
There is alot of (I this and I that) in this post, it seems to be just personal opinion to the extream, this is not a bad thing but should not be given credence as anything but personal opinion, with the game still a long way off (yes it could be delayed more than it already has been) it is hard to tell how the finished product will come out, or what changes they will make between now and release and even after release, so deep breath and see how it comes out.
Such a silly opinion. You do realize that's what it is right, an opinion. This wasn't created by the same company that made SWG, thinking it would keep any aspect that SWG players loved is completely foolish on your part.
something i read recently (that im sure is old news) was about how the story/game is broken into chapters.
i was wondering, does this mean chapters as in the book quests in LOTRO-
or chapters as in you complete the tattoine portion, then move to naboo, then aldaran, etc- with no ability to go to other planets until that 'chapter' comes into play?
anyone with info or link would be appreciated
No Issues that I can see, unless you are looking for a game that does align with what Bioware are developing.
Vast worlds , endless content and storyline and more when your favorite friends are not online.
Looking forward to playing all teh charachter storylines plus having a few mains that I will keep for world play.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
i don't know what your talking about. yes people did leave swg for wow but tons came back right before the cu and it was the cu and then the nge that ran everyone off swg. and those major issues? what the combat imbalance that people claimed swg had? first off know how hard it was to get to jedi you had to do this thing called work for it something that most gamers today don't want to do and rather they just want to sit there and do nothing. outside of that combat was fine. all swg had was a lack of 'content' for the single player questers but it had tons of player made content. and player made content is the whole idea of mmo's. i mean know how much fun people had with weekend long battles? no not a battle that lasted an hour or two but the whole weekend!
swg pre-cu was the better game no rose tinted glasses needed.
and look around we predicted that aoc wouldn't do good or warhammer. many of us said aion was going to bomb after the first month or two. so far i think those of us on here and over on the fringe are right.
Thank you for proving how people look back on things with a pleasant light and tend to skip over anything that doesn't conform to being positive.
With regards to the problems with SWG Pre-CU, lets look at a few:
Combat in Pre-CU was "fine"? Seriously? How about the combat imbalances concerning certain overpowered class combinations i.e. Tera Kasi + Swordman (if i recall correctly). You didn't stand a chance against that "cookie cutter" setup in pvp.
Let's also not ignore the issues concerning the modified ("sliced"?) weapons which were extremely overpowered and were only removed from the game later.
Also (and this was a big issue for many) lets not forget the performance issues in populated areas (Correlia Starport lag being a prime example).
Then of course, there is the issues with the missions and dungeons, including mobs that shoot through walls (which, incidentally they still do to this day) and the introduction of the Corellian Corvette mission which was bugged to hell.
Bounty Hunter missions where the targets either disappeared or were found inside trees and buildings.
The point is that SWG Pre-CU had a LOT of issues that caused it to bleed players long before WoW was released, some of which I listed above. Now, I can appreciate that SWG Pre-CU had some good points, but it was far from "fine" as you make it sound to be. Maybe you should take off those tinted glasses and remember the game as it REALLY was. You may have been willing to overlook some of the games glaring issues at the time, but others weren't.
Now, I will agree though that another of SWG's Pre-NGE issues was concerned with the lack of content. Unfortunately, we will never know how the game would have turned out IF the NGE hadn't hit it. To dwell on such things is futile. The fact is that SWG Pre-CU was found by many to be lacking for a variety of reasons. And those reasons caused people to leave. Which only helped with WoW's popularity at the time.
Also please, don't try to generalise entire playerbases down to the level of people who just want instant gratification for no effort because that is a fallacy with no factual evidence to support it. Even WoW's playerbase isn't entirely (or even majorly) composed of such a mindset. There is a difference between someone who doesn't like a mindless grind such as the jedi quest in pre-cu, and someone who just wants something for nothing. It isn't as "black and white" as you make it sound.
I'm sorry but in my opinion "player made content" is often used as a poor excuse for lazy designers. I'm all for giving players tools to make their own content and not have to be forced to follow "progression paths" if they don't want to, but "player content" certainly shouldn't be used as the ONLY primary way for players to experience content in the game. And lets face it, aside from the Bounty Hunter missions, the repetitive mission terminals, and the "themepark" mission hubs, there wasn't much else in terms of content.
12 months after SWG's launch, players realised that they wanted developer made content in a polished MMO that didn't suffer the persistent issues and problems that SWG had at the time that didn't look as if they would be fixed...........cue the release of WoW.....
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I felt the CU was a much better system than Pre-CU. Like you guys were talking about the templates everyone would use, then come up with counters. This was one of the problems in Pre-CU, the imbalances that made some professions the only choice while some were left in the dark. Case in point, I wanted to be a Carbineer/CM, CM was fine and viable, but Carbineer was ridiculous. The costs of the abilities, without full-on buffs you could kill yourself using carbines. The CU fixed Carbineer, it also brought down melee (and Rifleman, thank god) to reasonable levels of competition.
The freedom back then wasn't as free as some would like to remember it, there were things you pretty much had to have to compete. You were either a stacker or you better hope they don't come after you. It always made me made how much love Rifleman got over Carbineer. But I digress. There was freedom, just not as much.
Yep I know what you're saying there, that was due to a broken profession after taking severe nerfs. Early on carbines were the shiznit. They were nerfed to oblivion, to a point where pistols were far more deadly, which really made no sense.
Carbineer was only good for a few def stacking purposes and nothing else. The same with swordsman, they were gimped at many points over the pre-cu era. Toward the end they were pretty decent if I recall. Jedi really took up all the love they could give, the rest of us were the step children.
I digress simply to say I was more pointing out the very reason the game was changed, more so than trying to discuss templates. There were far to many things to learn outside of the game, on the internet or in game spending your time changing your template until you had it right. That was really the meat and potatoes of the game and most people didn't like that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm looking forward to seeing Bioware school all these other silly developers on how to make a proper MMORPG. Bioware is the best, I trust them to do it right. They do not fail.
All you people who talk bad about this game are like the bitch, preppy little girls that spread rumors in high school.
"Ohhh I'm disappointed!" Come on, the game isn't even out yet. Is it that hard for you people to just try it when it's out and THEN bitch about it?
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Sadly that's what the internet and forums are for. Everyone feels like their ill-conceived opinion is the holy grail.
sooo true. i have been meaning to say this but you did a better job than i would have haha
Exodus 15:2
*Points at your tinted glasse*
Maybe you need to remember how WoW really was at launch?
OP classes/weapons like the Warrior and arcanite reaper that before nerfs could destroy most classes. Gimped classes like the warlock that needed redone.
Horrible itemization- Mage items with agility? Melee weapons vs caster weapons that gave melee an instant huge boost where the caster needed an entire set of gear to see the same upgrade.
Where major cities and blackrock mountain constantly crashed
Bugged looting that required relogging
quests with horrible drop rates(yeti horn!).
As for SWG content, you're joking right? How about becoming a master crafter and creating a business? How about going on Night Sister or krayt hunts? How about organizing a base raid? Going shopping at one of many shopping outlets? All of the above could easily kill a few hours nightly which is more than equal to WoW's endgame, which <5% experienced if I remember correctly.
Could SWG have used more content? Absolutely but what game can't? I'd take a game like SWG that gives you freedom to do a bunch of things over WoW that give you 1-2 things to do. If you had SWG's crafting, non-combat classes, merchant system, player cities, player bases, and WoW's raids you would have a far better game.
Also giving players good tools to create content is far more complicated than churning out an artificially gated raid that forces players to grind it over and over again. The tools need to be user friendly but robust.enough to allow for a lot of different uses.
That is just it though....who cares ff the SWG vets dont back the game? I sure dont. Seeing as how SOE dumped them back in 05, I dont think Developers give much thought to their numbers either as evidenced by the facts we still havent seen a AAA MMO in the PRECioUs mold.
By all accounts EVE is a GREAT game. I mean this sincerely. CCP has put a lot of luv into it. Yet it still cant top EQ1's sub numbers from 6 yrs ago(300k NA subs for EVE vs 450k NA subs for EQ1). WoW set the bar that much higher. A good themepark can have 300K+ subs easily....the ceiling for sandboxes is around 300k.
The SWG vets act like they were the only SW fans around in the 70s. Being born in 68, I assure you that isnt the case.
I can tell you why SWG didnt appeal to the majority of the older fans of the IP. Well at least those that enjoy PVE based games....such as myself. That would be cause we dont enjoy a "virtual stage" to have roleplay on. Which was SWG's strong point. Couple in the fact it was broken as hades at launch, and most folks didnt touch it with a ten foot pole. The ones that were new to the MMO genre, and picked it up despite all the information around stating what a broken game SWG was, quit in the first month....although some lasted a few months.
Within 6 months or so of launch, SOE was getting desperate due to how unfavored their virtual reality was received. The SW IP they were paying big money on, not the mention all the development money, was far behind EQ1 in subs. I have a feeling a CU/NGE would of happened without WoW. The sandbox concept just doesnt appeal to me, and PVE gamers like myself.
A game like EQ1....that is along the lines of what PVE gamers look for. Content to complete, and plenty of it. WoW has lessened the time comitment that EQ1 required, and it also has tons of content to complete. By making it easier in both complexity, and system requirements, they tore up on the casuals. The same folks that TOR is aiming for.
TOR would never see 1M subs if it was SWG2....no matter how the fanatics from the "fringe" keep trying to convince us otherwise. Sandbox MMOs are not what the majority want....just the vocal minority. I just wish they would finally STFU about the same chit we have heard the past 5 yrs.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
*nods* Yeah I found CU also an improvement. No longer this hilarious doctor buff wait-lines, and all that. CU made combat really way better, IMO as well.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert