What did we learn in the past 4 years ? (starting with Vanguard/Lotro and ending with SC).
MMMO's in development have 3 fases:
- From 2 years before publishment to 1month before Beta.
Extreme hype from the publishers/ Everything is possible/ ALL is included/ biggest launch ever/ more features are included as long as any idiot on a website demands it.
- From Beta to 3 days before publishment.
Extreme hype from fans (most coming from those not in the game yet), corrections from publishers, down to earth expectations and lots of comments about obviously lacking features. Depending on the product the comments range from "it is still in Beta" or "biggest dud ever".
- 3 months after launch.
The game crashes to reality in a loss of around 80% of its launching hype. All people coming back down to earth and a hardcore small number of fans still defending the obvious thing: it is just another standard MMO.
Find out for yourself how this mechanism works for the 3 games above.
FF14 is by far the closest to launch (and in Beta): no PvP and 1 minute slooooow combat to even kill a trivial mob. People are already coming from predictions of millions of subs to a few 100K at the most on most forums.
TOR is the next on the line, it is a very mixed bag of comments, wait until the so called Beta will show its true face seen in video leaks in our fase 2 above.
GW2 is by far the game that still sits in its early development cycle. So it gains the most hype. It is still in the cycle of "everything and 100 times more" is in it .... reality check : 4 game developpers (head game designer first) left a week ago to join Jeff Strain already....
Lesson: People never learn from the past.
Assuming that things will happen again exactly as they did in the past, with new and differing situations, is the real failure to learn.
Yes, people have to be wary not to make assumptions about what will be in a game at launch based on early hype. However, that doesn't mean all game developers lie about their products, nor that no mmo hasn't brought innovative features in recent years.
Your ff14 impression is colored by embellished opinion (it's true that there's no pvp, but a lot of mmo players don't care about pvp). You just argued that player expectations do not determine success, and then use rough, uninformed player predictions as a premise.
GW2 has gotten a lot of it's hype from actual announcements which have since been backed up with gameplay footage. Jeff Strain left on amicable terms by all accounts, and I hadn't heard of other designers leaving to join him, but if that's the case there are likely other reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with the game.
Lesson: Think over each situation logically and don't make any unwarranted assumptions. I think we can both agree on that point.
I'm a FFXIV fanboi so thats the game I will be playing, but I dont know how big it will be population wise, but it does have the console thing going for it, assuming that they pull that off... but I dont think it brings that many new things into the genre but I think the pve will just be amazing, no pvp.... but believe it or not, to me thats a good thing.
GW2... everything you hear about it, atleast to me sounds great and I will probably try it if once it comes out people say they love it and only have good things to say about it for the most part and it actually delivers on all of its promises, so this game is sooooooo hyped up, but I honestly hope it does live up to that.
TOR... I guess same deal as GW2, have to see what people say... but I dont think I can play a mmo with too cartoony graphics.
Yes gameplay is important and no I see no reason to not want both gameplay and good graphics, though maybe its more about what style they go with because they could have tons of graphical option and really nice shadows and etc but if they stick with the cartoony models and textures then that doesnt work for me!
Will any game live up to its hype? No, I dont think so. Will there be lots of people who love and worship X game? sure.
I'm going to try for sure FFXIV and GW2 space games never interested me so TOR is a no no for me.
1 is B2P so you play free forever the other is P2P you get bored from one you play the other and so on.
Ps wish ncsoft would put out more news on blade & soul THAT is a game I'm really looking forward (Apart of the 2 mentioned) since it's a mix of an action/adventure in an mmo.
I'm a huge Star Wars fan so I am hoping that SW:TOR turns out to be decent. I've yet to read any positive comments from "supposed" closed beta testers about it though, so I'm feeling a bit worried. Even if it turns out to be 7-8ish on the rating scale, I'll probably stay there due to loving the setting. If it tanks however... Guild Wars II will be my new home. I love the emphasis on player skill > gear that Guild Wars is known for.
FFXIV will be a niche game, with around 200k total subs in the US/EU regions is my guess. Not everyone is going to like this game... just because of it's slower pace.
TOR, is in no way going to live up to it hype. I expect it to be a great game... just with the hype it has, People are going to be very dissapointed with it.
Just a note here: I'm going to end up buy all of these either via pre-ordering them online or buying them in-store on release day.
Given that XIV has universal servers and in-game translation for players what you're writing is a bit meaningless to the player experience. I think the numbers playing at launch will be high, and I think it will be over a million worldwide in it's first year. SWTOR really depends on what the story arcs are for the different classes, if they are good then the game will rock...but if there isn't any depth then, yes, it may disappoint.
Given that XIV has universal servers and in-game translation for players what you're writing is a bit meaningless to the player experience. I think the numbers playing at launch will be high, and I think it will be over a million worldwide in it's first year.
Yea I know, I just saying it won't have high sub count here, and it will be very niche to our regions.
I figured about a 1mil subs worldwide for FFXIV, myself
Will we be graced by three amazing games or just more crap that simply doesnt live up to peoples expectations/ hype?
I personally feel all three games are going to set this forum on fire, noone will be happy but thats just me lol.
what do you think?
No game appeals to any part of the community as a whole and I'm failry certain these games will be no different what we may have though is three games that can sustain over a million active players each (hopefully).
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Hype is a tool. Companies fan its flames to get people juiced to guy games they actually know very little about.
I just watched the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto Video....It was EPIC....i am totally hyped!! but it really didn't tell me dick about what playing the game will really be like.
All they need me to do is to pull the trigger on a box sale....after that, its all gravy.
Look at STO. Part of me thinks they never even cared about post-launch figures...it's Star Trek...they just needed to hype it up and rape the IP. It it was their own IP, it wouldn't sell itself like Star Trek does...they'd actually have to make a good game.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
i found the last FF game to be terrible, so won't be touching that.
i'm skeptical about gw2 due to it's lack of subscription model, i like my developers to be getting a regular paycheck. that being said, i'm willing to check it out if the reviews from people i trust are positive.
i'll probably try RIFT as it's a spiritual successor to EQ2, but with more dynamic content, which is something i've always wished eq2 had. the story, setting and combat look pretty generic, but i'm not expecting it to be a game-changer, just fun to play.
TOR is more than a year away - at the least - i'm sure it'll be very entertaining for the month or so it takes to play the storyline part of the game. so i'll buy it for that guaranteed bang for buck just like i'll buy the next Mass Effect for the 3-5 days of solid entertainment. i don't expect it to be a world i want to live in longterm, bioware just isn't building it that way based on what i've seen so far. but there is more time for that to change and as there is definitely enough reason to at least buy the box, i'm not particularly stressed about whether to try it or not.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
FF14: I seen the videos, you seen the combat. Game looks boring.
GW2 :Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was like GW1 with better graphics.
SWTOR: so many people hating on this game it is destined to fail. Also the high expectations of people will never be met and people won't buy it because it is not their dream MMO.
FFXIV : will fail miserably , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
FFXIV : will fail miserably , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
pps : just my 2 cents
Gw1 concept is a huge success??? You cannot be serious. That wasn't even an MMO. It was more like that failed game phatasy star universe.
People want to play with OTHER people , not hang out in the city and find a group then go into the world with only your group in an instanced world.
Sadly, I think the genre won't be rocked until WoW2, or whatever Blizzard are making.
I think smaller games will add one or two exciting new features each, and someone like Blizzard will take all those and put them in one game, and all the people who only play mainstream games will go "OMG! These new features are awesome! Blizzard rocks!" then everyone will copy them and the casuals will think Blizzard changed the genre.
i.e. Exactly the same as they did with Warcraft.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
GW2 :Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was like GW1 with better graphics.
You obviously dont have idea what you are talking about..........
They say what they want to get people to buy the game. Prove to me otherwise that this is no different from GW1 other than the fact the dev team may have said they are changing it around.
FFXIV : will fail miserably , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
pps : just my 2 cents
Gw1 concept is a huge success??? You cannot be serious. That wasn't even an MMO. It was more like that failed game phatasy star universe.
People want to play with OTHER people , not hang out in the city and find a group then go into the world with only your group in an instanced world.
Please GW1 has the best PVP in any game , not 100000 using the same skills coze the variety is huge ( skills wise )
sure it is heavy instanced , still it is fun and successfull
Sadly, I think the genre won't be rocked until WoW2, or whatever Blizzard are making.
I think smaller games will add one or two exciting new features each, and someone like Blizzard will take all those and put them in one game, and all the people who only play mainstream games will go "OMG! These new features are awesome! Blizzard rocks!" then everyone will copy them and the casuals will think Blizzard changed the genre.
i.e. Exactly the same as they did with Warcraft.
I agree with you. Further more I think that MMO companies will find the genre to not be very profitable and they will stop focusing on these kind of games. We may see alot more f2p crappy games that are cheaply made with an MT item shop in our future.
MMO customers tend to complain to much and not be satisfied with anything.
I am gonna go out on a limb here and say Rift is going to be a really solid title. I Expect ToR will do well and FFXIV will have a solid player base same with GW2 but i think that Rift is going to do very well as well.
FFXIV : will fail miserably , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
pps : just my 2 cents
Gw1 concept is a huge success??? You cannot be serious. That wasn't even an MMO. It was more like that failed game phatasy star universe.
People want to play with OTHER people , not hang out in the city and find a group then go into the world with only your group in an instanced world.
Honestly all this hype about GW2 is getting a bit much. I never was a fan of the first one, and unless GW2 jumps out at me with glee..I doubt I'll waste my money on it.
Speaking of TOR, it looks to me more like a multiplayer RPG than an actual MMO. Who am I to judge? If there is any type of single-player mode to it, I'll probably skip it.
I never played the first Final Fantasy, but I might try the second. Honestly the only MMO that really looks interesting is Rift: Planes of Telara.
Comments
Assuming that things will happen again exactly as they did in the past, with new and differing situations, is the real failure to learn.
Yes, people have to be wary not to make assumptions about what will be in a game at launch based on early hype. However, that doesn't mean all game developers lie about their products, nor that no mmo hasn't brought innovative features in recent years.
Your ff14 impression is colored by embellished opinion (it's true that there's no pvp, but a lot of mmo players don't care about pvp). You just argued that player expectations do not determine success, and then use rough, uninformed player predictions as a premise.
GW2 has gotten a lot of it's hype from actual announcements which have since been backed up with gameplay footage. Jeff Strain left on amicable terms by all accounts, and I hadn't heard of other designers leaving to join him, but if that's the case there are likely other reasons that have nothing whatsoever to do with the game.
Lesson: Think over each situation logically and don't make any unwarranted assumptions. I think we can both agree on that point.
Swtor is just more of the same from Bioware, it just seems to be plain boring to me. To much hype for a game that dosen`t deserve it.
GW2 an FFXIV, thoose are new MMO:s that i think will deliver something more then Cutscenes and VoiceOvers.
I'm a FFXIV fanboi so thats the game I will be playing, but I dont know how big it will be population wise, but it does have the console thing going for it, assuming that they pull that off... but I dont think it brings that many new things into the genre but I think the pve will just be amazing, no pvp.... but believe it or not, to me thats a good thing.
GW2... everything you hear about it, atleast to me sounds great and I will probably try it if once it comes out people say they love it and only have good things to say about it for the most part and it actually delivers on all of its promises, so this game is sooooooo hyped up, but I honestly hope it does live up to that.
TOR... I guess same deal as GW2, have to see what people say... but I dont think I can play a mmo with too cartoony graphics.
Yes gameplay is important and no I see no reason to not want both gameplay and good graphics, though maybe its more about what style they go with because they could have tons of graphical option and really nice shadows and etc but if they stick with the cartoony models and textures then that doesnt work for me!
Will any game live up to its hype? No, I dont think so. Will there be lots of people who love and worship X game? sure.
I'm going to try for sure FFXIV and GW2 space games never interested me so TOR is a no no for me.
1 is B2P so you play free forever the other is P2P you get bored from one you play the other and so on.
Ps wish ncsoft would put out more news on blade & soul THAT is a game I'm really looking forward (Apart of the 2 mentioned) since it's a mix of an action/adventure in an mmo.
All 3 of those are going to disappoint some poeple, others will love them.
My vote none of them will live of to expections, but all will be solid games.
Anyway GW2 could go either way. It could be awesome or it could just fall flat.
I just don't by that of no grinding thing they keep saying... All MMOs have a grind of some kind.
It might hide it well, but it will still be there.
If the DES is what I'm hoping it is this game will blow us away.
FFXIV will be a niche game, with around 200k total subs in the US/EU regions is my guess.
Not everyone is going to like this game... just because of it's slower pace.
TOR, is in no way going to live up to it hype.
I expect it to be a great game... just with the hype it has, People are going to be very dissapointed with it.
Just a note here:
I'm going to end up buy all of these either via pre-ordering them online or buying them in-store on release day.
I'm a huge Star Wars fan so I am hoping that SW:TOR turns out to be decent. I've yet to read any positive comments from "supposed" closed beta testers about it though, so I'm feeling a bit worried. Even if it turns out to be 7-8ish on the rating scale, I'll probably stay there due to loving the setting. If it tanks however... Guild Wars II will be my new home. I love the emphasis on player skill > gear that Guild Wars is known for.
Given that XIV has universal servers and in-game translation for players what you're writing is a bit meaningless to the player experience. I think the numbers playing at launch will be high, and I think it will be over a million worldwide in it's first year. SWTOR really depends on what the story arcs are for the different classes, if they are good then the game will rock...but if there isn't any depth then, yes, it may disappoint.Yea I know, I just saying it won't have high sub count here, and it will be very niche to our regions.
I figured about a 1mil subs worldwide for FFXIV, myself
What hype ? Just read the game description on Wikipedia and you're all set. Thats how I found out Darkwind and Age of Conan are of no interest.
TOR will be a family friendly game. I may try it. But I know for sure it wont be the ultimate MMO.
I wont try GW2 because I was bored by GW.
FFIX hmm wanted to inform myself about that one before, I dont know what it is really.
No game appeals to any part of the community as a whole and I'm failry certain these games will be no different what we may have though is three games that can sustain over a million active players each (hopefully).
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
NO game EVER lives up to its Hype. Why?
Hype is a tool. Companies fan its flames to get people juiced to guy games they actually know very little about.
I just watched the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto Video....It was EPIC....i am totally hyped!! but it really didn't tell me dick about what playing the game will really be like.
All they need me to do is to pull the trigger on a box sale....after that, its all gravy.
Look at STO. Part of me thinks they never even cared about post-launch figures...it's Star Trek...they just needed to hype it up and rape the IP. It it was their own IP, it wouldn't sell itself like Star Trek does...they'd actually have to make a good game.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
GW2 FTW
Guild Wars 1 has many players online right now just waiting for GW2 to come out plus GW2 is
gaining steam I'm eagerly awaiting GW2 with my new PC system...bring it on
i found the last FF game to be terrible, so won't be touching that.
i'm skeptical about gw2 due to it's lack of subscription model, i like my developers to be getting a regular paycheck. that being said, i'm willing to check it out if the reviews from people i trust are positive.
i'll probably try RIFT as it's a spiritual successor to EQ2, but with more dynamic content, which is something i've always wished eq2 had. the story, setting and combat look pretty generic, but i'm not expecting it to be a game-changer, just fun to play.
TOR is more than a year away - at the least - i'm sure it'll be very entertaining for the month or so it takes to play the storyline part of the game. so i'll buy it for that guaranteed bang for buck just like i'll buy the next Mass Effect for the 3-5 days of solid entertainment. i don't expect it to be a world i want to live in longterm, bioware just isn't building it that way based on what i've seen so far. but there is more time for that to change and as there is definitely enough reason to at least buy the box, i'm not particularly stressed about whether to try it or not.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
All of these games are going to be major flops.
FF14: I seen the videos, you seen the combat. Game looks boring.
GW2 :Wouldn't be surprised at all if it was like GW1 with better graphics.
SWTOR: so many people hating on this game it is destined to fail. Also the high expectations of people will never be met and people won't buy it because it is not their dream MMO.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
FFXIV : will fail miserably , why ? coze it is too much console based
not a single veteran mmo player wants to play with aa controller in his hand ( sure you can play whit mouse and keyboard ) but those controls are horrid !!!!!!!!!!
TOR : i think will have his fanbased players , beside that nothing special
GW2 : Will deliver , GW1 concept was a huge success ( and still is )
Arenanet are good at this and i am very sure it will succeed
Ps : GW2 is not in early stage of development , i know from a good source it actually is ready to play
they are just tweaking out some bits and decide when the best time it is to bring it out
pps : just my 2 cents
You obviously dont have idea what you are talking about..........
Gw1 concept is a huge success??? You cannot be serious. That wasn't even an MMO. It was more like that failed game phatasy star universe.
People want to play with OTHER people , not hang out in the city and find a group then go into the world with only your group in an instanced world.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Sadly, I think the genre won't be rocked until WoW2, or whatever Blizzard are making.
I think smaller games will add one or two exciting new features each, and someone like Blizzard will take all those and put them in one game, and all the people who only play mainstream games will go "OMG! These new features are awesome! Blizzard rocks!" then everyone will copy them and the casuals will think Blizzard changed the genre.
i.e. Exactly the same as they did with Warcraft.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
They say what they want to get people to buy the game. Prove to me otherwise that this is no different from GW1 other than the fact the dev team may have said they are changing it around.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
With this trio, I find it hard to believe that not one of them will live up to their hype. Good times ahead indeed.
I agree with you. Further more I think that MMO companies will find the genre to not be very profitable and they will stop focusing on these kind of games. We may see alot more f2p crappy games that are cheaply made with an MT item shop in our future.
MMO customers tend to complain to much and not be satisfied with anything.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I am gonna go out on a limb here and say Rift is going to be a really solid title. I Expect ToR will do well and FFXIV will have a solid player base same with GW2 but i think that Rift is going to do very well as well.
6 million people disagree with you.
This is not a game.
Honestly all this hype about GW2 is getting a bit much. I never was a fan of the first one, and unless GW2 jumps out at me with glee..I doubt I'll waste my money on it.
Speaking of TOR, it looks to me more like a multiplayer RPG than an actual MMO. Who am I to judge? If there is any type of single-player mode to it, I'll probably skip it.
I never played the first Final Fantasy, but I might try the second. Honestly the only MMO that really looks interesting is Rift: Planes of Telara.