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Why would anyone buy another game from FUNCOM?
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I'm playing Fallen Earth now, and will likely continue to play it for as long as it continues to exist and for as long as Icarus releases expansions for it in a reasonable timeframe. However, I have to disagree with you on a couple of things, The Secret World really doesn't sound much like FE to me, nor do the screen shots put me in mind of FE, except that, in most any game, urban wreckage has a tendency to look like, well, urban wreckage.
Also, from the website:
"Earn points for everything you do - from combat and exploration, to trade skills and PvP - in order to rank high on both local and global scoreboards, gain titles and worldwide acclaim, and help make your secret society the most powerful and influential of them all."
That does mention crafting. Fallen Earth fan or no, if The Secret World has a more free-form advancement process, I'll definately be giving it a try. I'm not a huge fan of quests, although the dialogue of the quest givers in FE are remarkably entertaining.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
And let it just be noted that the haters go some way to balancing out the views of the Funcom Fanboi's who will defend this ridiculous company. I make no bones about being a disgruntled customer - Funcom made me that way. I would question the motives of the Fanboi's - seems like as soon as I say anything negative about Funcom up pop the same people to try and balance things.
TSW nobody knows what it's going to be like at this moment in time. The information is scant to say the least - a ploy utilised by Funcom all of the time. They are reasonably good at baiting the trap I will give them that, but normally they fail to deliver on what they suggest. How people keep giving these muppets a chance I don't know, how many times do you need to fail before things change.
@OP I couldnt agree more. theyre a company wih a proven track record of releasing great concep but badly implemened games and then lieing through their teeth. theyll never get my money again.
I suppose I'm an optimist at heart, I hope FC learns from their AO and AOC releases! But I'm also a realist, as in I will be holding really tight to my wallet with a wait and see attitude and an eye on what other players have to say about The Secret World post-release before I sub. But then, I'm generally that way anyway, to the point where games without free trials don't get my business no matter who makes them.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I'm as aetheist as they come but Amen to that!
The whole "[insert name of game producer here] killed my kittens, now I will never buy a game from them again", seems to me as logic as jihad.
If I believe I will like a game I'll buy it, if I don't I won't.
"nerf rock, paper is working as intended."
- Scissors.
Head Chop
Seems as logical as when a person buys multiple broken product's (cars, electronics, power equipment) from a company and refuse to buy any more. Unless of course you are the kind of person who continously wastes money on garbage regardless of quality.
I really enjoyed AO and AoC and FC is one of the few developers whose MMO i'd buy simply based on the fact that they made. Both of their MMOs had their issues, but it's the design and long term vision that matter to me, not some early launch hiccups.
AION and LoTRO launched pretty much flawlessly and I didn't enjoy them nearly as much as AoC. But it's a matter of opinion I guess.
SOE released EQ2 in really good shape too, but despite that and having played it for 6 years, I'd be extremely wary of buying another SOE game. I just don't like the direction they are going and what they do to their customers. Funcom simply has some mistakes and errors. I don't consider it at all malicious.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Flaws aside I don't think I've ever picked up a Funcom product and not at least had a unique experience. Single-player or MMO they do usually offer something a tad different. AOC and AO are unique in many ways, AOC has a more familiar feel than typical Funcom games, but I think that was more out of a want for hitting the big time, than anything else.
Not that I care that others do it, but I don't usually write a company off after a bad release or two. A lot of companies that release multiple games fail here and there, and that's referring to the single player realm.
I think it takes an awful lot of one dimensional thinking to do so.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I do prefer that TSW is not being hyped like AoC was. If you compare the amount of information, interviews and revealed information so far there isn't really much to go by. This is in many ways a good thing as they seem to have a different approach to selling the game then Gaute had with AoC. If it will stay this way or if the hype will hit overdrive closer to launch remains to be seen. At the moment I find TSW interesting as a concept, the idea of having a MMO based on today's world with 3 factions and no ordinary level system sounds good on paper. Funcom will have to prove they also can deliver the goods, but the system sounds interesting on paper.
When it comes to the haters vs fanbois discussion the thing is simple, both fanbois and haters are blind to the obvious facts. Both of them will never admit to have wrong, if a fanboi is proven wrong he will deny this or simply just ignore to even comment on that bit. Haters will if proven wrong change subject or alter the message they have been preaching to better avoid being proven wrong. If you prove them wrong over and over they will simply just not comment it. And if you over and over tries to get them to answer it they will just post some rubbish stupidity about you being too much of an idiot to know when discussion should be left dead. :P
You kind of have to ask yourself if the world of MMO's as they stand is coming to an end? Let's face it fantasy adventure lends itself to an MMO experience elfs, goblins, etc etc. In those fantasy environments you have to create worlds. But other content for the most part tends to be covered by the games which are already available. I mean I play Fallen Earth and I just bought Borderlands plus DLC's on Steam with 66% off. Last few days I have been playing it and it's almost like a self contained MMO, I even understand I can co-op online in some parts (haven't looked at that yet). Games like Fallout3 with all the DLC are the same, they offer hours upon hours of gameplay. Games don't so much end now after purchase, with DLC the lifetime of the games is expanded.
Realtime Worlds who produce All Points Bulletin (APB) have just gone into administration due to a lack lustre take-up of the game. On paper I thought it sounded interesting, but it didn't appeal to me. Now it might of worked better as a standalone game which they then drip fed the content as paid DLC. I mean Global Agenda dropped the idea of a monthly payment and are going with paid content. So by the time The Secret World (TSW) makes an appearance I am not sure what sort of market it's going to find itself in, now if it goes free to play then perhaps it has a chance.
No, the world of MMOs has a fairly stable revenue model. It's just like movies; Big budget films cost a lot of money to produce, but also are advertised as AAA quality and are able to pull in enough money to make up the cost of production. Smaller cult films are usually cheaply made and make less money, but the production value doesnt need to be offset nearly as much. Games advertised as free to play with item shops tend to make in the area of $2 per user per month, or $50 per paying user per month (only a very small percentage of players spend money in F2P games) versus the typical $15 per month subscription fee. with those numbers, a free to play game would need a player base 8 times the size of its pay to play bretheren in order to make the same revenue.
The frequently overlooked source of revenue is also what I believe to be the future of MMO business models: In game advertising. Currently, Anarchy Online runs as a totally free to play game with no purchasing of content for the past 10 years due to in game billboards advertising real life products. Here are two mods for the TSW forums on the idea of in game advertising:
"I personally like the way that Funcom has setup their in-game advertising on Anarchy Online.
If you pay for the game, you have the option to turn off the "real world" ads. Instead, you see in-game advertisements.
For the most part, billboards and ads are placed in locations that they would appear in the real world.
The real world ads change so they give the cities an ever changing feel (to some degree). Billboards can also be used as informational tools since the ads can be constantly changed.
They have had some ads with audio and video so you could watch a movie preview if you stood in front of the billboard.
If I recall the information Funcom provided when the Anarchy Online billboards were released... they can tell when billboards are being viewed by players, so advertisers can pay per view instead of a flat rate. Advertisers love this... because they get a real sense of how many eyes have viewed their ad. (Sorry, but I can't recall the source of that info)
For some time, I had turned on the adverts in AO... even though I have a pay account. I had gotten sick of seeing the static ads for in-game products and preferred the real-world ads. A similar system in TSW would be great IMHO."
"Well, definitely not pop-ups.
"
Examples... walk into a train station, sitting in the corner is a branded drink vending machine.... posters on walls... window signs...
Here's a quick calc, pulling numbers out of a hat.
3 cities, each with 10 major signs, 5 minor signs, 20 posters
Cost per major sign = $ 200.00 per month
Cost per minor sign = $ 100.00 per month
Cost per poster = $ 50.00 per month
Passive income per year on those numbers = $ 126,000.00
It doesn't take long to add up, and compared to advertising rates for billboards, magazines etc in the real world, those dollars are a drop in the ocean.
If you advertised on 1 major sign, your cost per subscription, based on 200k subs, is 0.012 cents per annum.
Those sort of numbers are an advertisers wet dream
With a strong playerbase and advertisers that are willing to blaze new trails, the subscription fee becomes almost suplemental. It also has a tendency to feed itself. for $15 a month, you get 100k players. you advertise coca cola and make enough money to drop your subscription fee to $10, providing you with more subscriptions. you now have 250k players thanks to breaking away from the herd and offering lower prices, and that lets you charge coca cola even more for the advertisements. Other companies get wind of the deals and also advertise through your game, letting you drop subscription price to $5 a month, raising you to 700k users (only children are incapable of spending $5 a month for unlimited entertainment, so the new users flood in). Of course, these numbers are pulled out of thin air, but capitalism doesnt lie: advertising is one of the most profitable businesses around.
I'd buy a game from funcom.. just because they made a few games I didn't enjoy doesnt mean they didnt make a ton of interesting titles over the years under that label
In other words: wait and see, don't prejudice
I'd try out future titles from them, just because they made mistakes doesn't mean they can't learn from them, & I think they've worked harder to fix stuff than most have done post-release (AO & AoC).
Looking forward to TSW very much.
Hey Demeel, you base your opinion from the MMORPG.com article about AoC being the worst release of 08 but yet you completely blocked out the possitive comback funcom did on AoC and won the award for "the most imporove game of 09" that was also told by MMORPG.com, so why the bull shit out of the blue man?
Oh yeah AOC the most improved game of 09, who is anybody trying to kid. Perhaps they improved in the sense of spending more money on advertising on this site than they did in previous years. If anything they probably bought that award, they certainly didn't earn it.
I was present for the catastrophy that was the AO release.
Given that AO is still around 10 years later, I'd say Funcom did something right.
AoC I cannot speak on because that game did not interest me, but from the people I have spoken to currently playing the game, they state the game is leaps and bounds better than at release and an enjoyable game now.
2 mistakes, 2 redemptions. Funcom has shown that they are human and make mistakes, but the bigger part of the equation for me is that they are able and willing to correct their mistakes which is something I cannot say for many other companies that release games in similar states.
That being the case, I will be more than happy to buy TSW from Funcom because it looks like a very intriguing and fun concept, and their past record indicates that if they do mess up another release, they will fix it.
To those that are ripping Funcom, what flawlessly released and functioning game are you playing?
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
It's all about threshholds while I'm firmly in the camp you are I don't even think Funcom should exist anymore with the state of the two releases and the misinformation/hide campaign they pulled with AOC. But again it's about thresholds, SWG was my first mmo and truth be told if I knew then what I know now I would rate the SWG launch maybe a step above either AO or AOC but I enjoyed it at the time just didn't know there were companies who understood the tech better and ran smoother and nothing would have convinced me that someone should take either my game or my right to play it. Funcom right now is riding in a dead heat with SOE and Cryptic for worse companies in the mmo scope but I'm glad that people still enjoy the games they make and as long as people continue to enjoy them I will wish Funcom and those other two all the success in the world.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
So if they're ranked as the worst game of the year in an article on this site, it's because they made a terrible game that noone should ever play.
If they're ranked as the most improved game of the year in an article on this site, it's because they bribed the writers.
Thank you. I now know exactly how much credibility you deserve
Well, that's as sensible and praiseworthy an attitude as you can get, respect
No blind hate, nor blind fanboism.
I'll be honest about the game: I absolutely love the theme and setting of TSW, it's probably the most intriguing one I've encountered of all the MMO's that passed my eye, I love the highly detailed graphics (although characters and animations have to shape up some more), I'm concerned about stability issues and engine limitations, but also noticed with RotGS that they can learn from mistakes and improve.
Regarding Funcom: I consider the launch of AoC a mess, was annoyed bc of a number of bugs and stability issues but still enjoyed myself greatly the months after launch, so I'm neutral towards FC.
So, to me TSW should be judged as its own game, and regarding that:
Tornquist + Lovecraft/King + horror mixed with urban fantasy + contemporary setting with secret societies, conspiracy paranoia, mysteries, secrets and puzzles = damn, show me more.
But that's personal opinion, I can only encourage MMO game companies getting more diverse and imaginative in their world themes and settings and try out things differently. The more of those, the better.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
To be honest I think you are naive if you think that award had anything to do with the game. Now if the rest of the gaming world had been hailing what a turnaround AOC had made and handing out awards fair enough. But this site has a 'Funcom' presence (for want of a better word) it harms nobody, either this site or Funcom as a whole, to hand out awards like that based on marketing reasons and not justified game critique. The only people it harms is the players who are led to believe a game is better than it is overall.
You gather all this info about TSW from a few trailers, concept art etc. It almost sounds like you have played the game.
Now I could understand me saying Medal of Honor looks to be a fair game, based on the beta I have played - but I wouldn't hype up a game like say Call of Duty Black Ops when I have only seen a trailer. How are you coming to these conculusions that characters and animations need to 'shape up'. What makes you think Funcom learn anything from their mistakes, I think from various discussions it has been shown they don't learn and that is part of the problem.
To be honest I think cyphers probably works for Funcom.
To be honest you sound like a bitter old man, with nothing but scorn and negativity and hatred in his mind and heart. I'm not saying that you are like that IRL, but it's certainly how you sound.
In contrast to some like for example you, I don't post merely about a game I hate - I find it a waste of time and even unhealthy - but I post about games that interest me, like GW2, SW:TOR, TSW, TERA, Rift and others.
In contrast to some I do my research thoroughly, and for those who are seriously looking and not just scratching a grudge and too lazy to do anything but follow their gut, there's enough information to be found and seen in interviews, screenshots and videos. Seriously, if how you are on forums is how you are irl, then I feel sorry for you and even more for the people close to you. All that rampant, persistent negativity. Soul draining.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I didn't like George Bush as president. Neither the father or the son. What makes you think Texas has learned from this mistake? what makes you think there are people in Texas who are above starting needless wars and wiretapping innocent citizens?
There is something you are not wrapping your head around: Funcom is not a single entity. They are an organization employing hundreds of people. I am following TSW because everything Ragnar Tornquist touches is GOLD. He has been working with Funcom for years. He made The Longest Journey, the game that recently won the award for best adventure game of the decade, as well as its critically aclaimed sequel Dreamfall. He had nothing to do with Age of Conan. He also had nothing to do with the Anarchy Online launch, but was the one responsible for fixing it. You don't have a leg to stand on. You're screaming to never vote for a Texan because they're all warmongering corporate shills and three feet away youre making Ron Paul weep.