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XP gets penalized....
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actually no its not.
I agree that the amount of EXP it takes to level doesnt really matter, however what matters, and matters alot is the length of time it takes to get a level.
If SE is setting this game up to where someone who plays 12 hours a day and someone who plays 2 hours a day levels at the same pace then there are going to be issues with the hardcore croud.
Rested EXP is an accepted way to cater to casual players and those with out a lot of time. Over the years there have been lots of interesting attempts to help bridge this gap, IE exp chains in AC1, Caravan system in Vanguard...etc but this method of tanking exp and reducing it the longer you play is a bit assanine.
Penalizing people for playing your game is not smart. Its like casinos reducing your winnings over time, or patting you on the shoulder after you've lost a lot of money and asking if you'd like to leave. Its bad for buisness.
Its not the players fault, its the developers. Exploring is fun...if its fun to explore. In most games exploring is boring and non-rewarding.
Leveling and end game are usually where most of the "fun" stuff is and thus thats where players want to be. If developers focused on making the "journey" as much fun as the end then folks would be more inclined to take their time.
Yeah, I'm all for a class system that allwos for on the fly changeups, but to force people to change their chosen path like this... Thats down right mean.
When you switch jobs, your stats don't switch. They are pretty much locked into whatever the highest job is. So if you are a caster and loaded up with INT, Piety and such then switch to Lancer you are in trouble. You have to change your stats and that is something that you cannot do and then go right out and fight. There is a very long delay before they adjust.
But running a dedicated caster AND a dedicated melee, you pretty much don't have to switch the core stats as the jobs will be locked to one kind. I won't have to worry about switching my stats while playing my Pug from a Archer since thy'd use the exact same ones pretty much. Same as if I had a Thau and a Conj on another toon.
This isn't like FFXI when you switch from a caster to melee, all the stats auctomatically changed instantly to that new class. Switching with the weapon doesn't cure that. Having dedicated toons as melee/caster gets around Surplus exp penalty AND stat change delays easily than trying to "wait it out" for exp to reset. Simply because, that wait time isn't 1 hour. In beta right now, its MUCH , much longer. Will that change at launch? Only SE knows but based on the rate it is now, it's pretty unacceptable.
When you experience this for yourself, you will see what the majority of people in beta is complaining about right now and why this is somewhat of a sticky problem. Explanations only go so far to give you the bigger picture.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The whole point with FFXIV from the get go was it is NOT, I repeat NOT a mmo designed for western powerlevelers. This game has ALWAYS been a game geared for Japanese players and they love FF and do you know just how many times SE has changed the mechanics behind their flagship series? A freakin lot! And this has never hindered their player base.......JAPANESE GAMERS.
Seriously the only reason I'm telling western players here to step back and take a breather is because we could actually benefit from learning different gameplay mechanics from the other side of the ocean. Heck it may even be a refreshing change from the tired azz systems we've been using since the 1990's here. But even if ZERO western players buy and like FFXIV, it won't mean much. SE will simply pull the plug on US servers and continue running shop at their homebase in Japan....
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I got burned out killing mandragoras for 5 hours on end in FFXI...now I kill them for 5 hours in a zone, I gotta switch classes, and start all over again. So now it's 10 hours of mandragora killing. All I hope is that zones have a wide varity of stuff to do otherwise this is gonna burn me out QUICK. And different zones for those levels. I can't stand running the same content over, and over, and over.
Hm..I think this kind of makes sense, but it does make those "hardcore players" have to earn more exp than a casual player, assuming both don't multiclass.
Say I guess if a casual player logs 2 hours of play making 5 levels, hits the penalty, then logs out for awhile, while lets say the hardcore player logs 2 hours of play making 5 levels, hits the penalty, but decides to press on with the penalty and make only another 3 levels over 3 additional hours, and then logs for awhile.
I guess the hardcore player would still progress more in a sense, but he just had to gain more exp for those 3 other levels, than the casual will have to later. In the long run I think the hardcore player would still progress faster, just not as fast as if there wasn't a penalty.
As to why SE doesn't just use the Rest exp bonus system i'm not sure. Perhaps that's not something that has been implemented in a Japanese mmo. I think that system would obviously seem a lot less suspicious/easier to the NA players though.
I'd forgotten about the current issue with stats handicapping the job switching. Still you could easily just run your dedicated toon on one char, you just do melee one day, caster another, or if that isn't appealing mix it up with crafting or something else in game. Also remeber, their goal was to make job switching extremely easy, if the stats are singificantly handicapping this I'm confident that, if anything, they will adjust.
Kinda scary how people are freaking out so badly about NOT being able to play for 8+ hours straight grinding... /shudder. Think it would be healthier all around for this to become more of the norm. I mean it could be worse, it could be like other countries where they litterally boot you out of the game after too long a session.
I am not in the beta, so I can't say this for sure, but I THINK that XP is just slowed down after a certain amount of time as one class. If this is all it is, then yes, hardcore players will still advance their chosen class faster than other people. Hopefully it will just slow them down a bit, and encourage more people to play other classes, with the added benefit of helping to control botters a little bit (maybe). If the game is anything like FFXI, then you are USELESS as any one class anyway, so why would you just want to race to max level with one class at a time? You wouldn't do this in FFXI and there wasn't even an XP "penalty" in that game. I just fail to see what the big damned deal is about this. I think some people view the game ONLY in terms of how fast they can level their character. How sad for them.
I find the XP system probably more different than any other mmorpg; It's confusing. The rating system on mobs is odd. Little colored dots that still seem to vary in strength. I think finding mobs to kill is sort of difficult as well. And lately leveling up has gotten really slow for my caster character, melee jobs seem to do a lot better. Some kills I get hardly any class points, others I get more. It's hard to explain but just some of my thoughts from the beta. They need to do better at "standardizing" some of those areas of the game.
Wow, people, why do you always have to advance and rush to endgame? Enjoy the game, enjoy the journey. And yes, it is all relative to other players, so those without a life will still be ahead of the pack and find a new successful life in the game. Think outside of the box. They are trying to create a new approach. Is it all about gaining more experience, new levels, is that all you want from an MMORPG? OMG you kill and get zero XP, end of the world.
I think the issue is that I don't want to be forced to do one thing or another in an online RPG.
Artificial walls suck especially when you can see across them. Meaning, knowing they (basically) turn off your exp for playing the game is like an invisible wall or a narrow one way corridor (rail system). Most MMO players want neither of these types of elements in this genre.
The color system is just like FFXI... so that hasn't really changed.
But yea I did notice that the Caster classes seem to level slower then the melee classes.
Lol to be honest doesnt' suprise me, i've played this game 8 hours total and i think i had more fun watching paint dry then playing this game.
It's goign to sell well, but it's going to suffer a fate worse then Champion Online or STO. It lacks at least in what i've seen so far pretty much everything.
If there's quest past the first one in game, it's so hard to find that lol i haven't been able to find it with the exception of those boring guildleve quest.
Crafting, OMG i think they have the worse crafting i've ever seen in any game.
So although penalizing people for XP and playiing a class to long makes me laugh. If it didn't take 10 mintues to kill 10 mob it would be understandable but seriously why penalize someoen for doing the same boring shit for several hour.
Anyways i was really hopefing this game would be good, but as it stands now i had more fund waiting 6h to getb a key at fileplanet then actually playing this game, so that tells you much. In a way i'm glad saves me the cost of a collector edition, that i can spend on Mafia II instead.
I'll say it again. You need to experience this thing for yourself. The things you are suggesting are as if they haven't been tried. People have and are trying them all on beta and for the majority, this still doesn't work well.
Let's look at your above suggestion. Say you play a caster, then switch over to melee once you hit the surplus. Now you play the melee but oops.. you also forgot about the PHYSICAL LEVEL of the character that is also probably on lockdown. Physical level seems to go away even SLOWER than the surplus exp which is bad also. So even if you are gaining CLASS level on the alt (Glad, Conj, Pug, etc), your physical level is stymied. This is bad because that is how you get your points to slot skills. Not enough Phys, not enough skills. And playing that alt WILL cause your physical level to keep right on chugging but again, no one told you that part.
So eventually you will end up with say, a 20 Glad but can't get enough points to put the proper skills in there because you've been earning physical points on the alt every time you pulled it out.
Again, I say that SE can (and more likely WILL) change things later or LOWER the exp rate decay. Most likely they will do this because of the massive uproar on the beta forums which I don't think you have access to atm. If you think people are freaking out here, you should be reading what's there about this issue and thats the core of the game testers.
This kinda reminds me of how in WAR all the testers were saying "What? no forts? Put something in here NAO! Pvp is meaningless" and people said they were overreacting and Mythic poo-pooed it. Then at the last minute Mythic threw them in with almost no thought and it was a complete mess from which they STILL haven't recovered to this day.
Right now, casuals are not the ones in beta. They are not the ones giving the feedback about bugs, class play, design, skills, etc. That is the more than casual player. The casual sits back and does pretty much the same thing he does when he subs.. other stuff and NOT the game.
If SE truly wants real feedback that will make the game work, I would hope they aren't taking their advice for granted in lieu of a casual dollar. Because the casual will say "this is a cool game", then when SWTOR/TERA/GW comes out the casual says "Bye bye FFXIV" and all that's left are people who didn't like this mechanic in the first place.
"TO MICHAEL!"
ITS BETA ITS STILL NEEDS BALANCED IM SURE IT WILL BE LIGHTEN
You know what's funny. In FFXI I hardly did quests, cuz they were so hard to find. I found myslef mostly grinding mobs for XP and drops. Somehow, I doubt this game will be much different.
Think I beat you already typing that.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Wow, that's a whole lot of misinformation you are spreading.
Physical Level is locked, but it isn't effected by surplus, so it's not stymied. Your physical level also has NO EFFECT ON THE NUMBER OF ACTION POINTS IE: SLOTS. That's only effected by rank level. So if my physical level is 50 and I play a rank 1 gladiator I still have 6 action points (about 2 skills worth of slotting). If my physical level is 1 and I play a rank 1 gladiator I still have 6 action points. As you gain skill levels in that job you get more action points (about 1-2 per level).
One thing higher physical level can do is slow down the rate at which you receive skill EXP, because you'll be killing things faster due to having higher base stats when switching to that job, especially at lower level, and thus less EXP for skill up opportunities.
Also a casual player does the exact same things a hardcore player does, just with far less time invested. If a casual player can raid for instance, they likely will, like many do in WoW. The difference between a casual and a hardcore player is only the time invested. We aren't talking about the difference between a roleplayer and a powergamer here.
I thought this was going to be a thread about how XP gets nerfed for non-groupers... This, more so if its 3 hours... Kinda sucks.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Whoa whoa.. when I say "stymied", I didn't say stymied by surplus.
Those points are separate.
My point is if someone takes a class to say 14, then the SURPLUS kicks in they have to switch off.
Now they move to a Lev 1 toon and start leveling. Assuming they level that alt to 14 toon, their Physical points would have slowed down at some point in there because they've still been playing the same toon.
So now they have a 14/14 something or other, but they would have YELLOW Physical points from this point forward probably and I think you know they come off even worse than surplus points.
If those yellow numbers aren't going up as fast as the class numbers, then at some point by the person switching back/forth, they will eventually reach a point (long before cap) where they aren't earning any more physical points at all. And since physical points even translate over to the crafting jobs, that's pretty bad.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I briefly referred to that post of yours but it was after a couple pages had passed.
I agree with you. Levels and experience are arbitrary numbers that are completely relative; they have no tangible basis. To say that going down from A to B is "losing a bonus" but going down from C to D is "gaining a penalty" is meaningless. Or, to put it another way, decreasing the rate of experience gain is the same thing as having a higher level cap and spreading the skills and abilities farther apart.
Case in point, if they were to tell people that the class level caps would be 250 at launch, you'd have dropped jaws and amazed stares across the board. Wow! Can you believe they'd make a game where the levels go that high?! Crazy! ...except that the number 250 doesn't mean anything. Going up one level in such a game might only take half an hour and might only give you a tiny increase in power, unlike D&D or DDO where one single level is a very substantial increase in power. Likewise, you can tack zeroes onto the end of the XP values to the point where you're gaining half a million XP per kill — as opposed to FFXI's 100-200 per kill — and yet still progress through the game at a pace equal to other MMOs. (See: Aion)
It's still really difficult to understand what you're trying to say here in terms of physical level. It's my understanding that when you do anything on any class, you earn physical XP that goes towards your overall physical level and also class XP that goes towards the class that you're on.
If someone takes one class to 14, then takes another class to 14, it seems like you're saying that their physical level progression will suffer as a result and I don't get what you mean by that.
Please read the beta forums for a proper explanation as I'm doing it wrong. Physical level has a dissipation rate worse than surplus.
Because it follows across ALL your toons and classes, no matter how many times you switch jobs it's not like you can avoid it at all by playing the field of alts.
I'll be playing at launch (still have my CE) because I think the game will eventually be good in the long run. I also think they will start the rates at a much slower pace of penalty. This is beta after all, and they want people in it to play ALL the classes.
I'll be willing to say right now that after some amount of time, they will get RID of this mechanic altogether.
So why are we all talking about something that may be irrevelant in six months?
Because it's a game and we have nothing better to do right now than post here
"TO MICHAEL!"