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One Reason Offered for Why there is No AH
Hrayr2148
Member Posts: 649
"It might be difficult at the beginning. We might be asking alot of effort from the people who enjoy the crafting system, but this time we want them to go to the market, and have their own bazzar, and use retainers, and try to figure out whats going to be the best price. If there is an Auction House it is just obvious which is the cheapest price, and the economy gets determined quite easily. We would like the players to establish their own market, by themselves, so it's going to be very exciting."
Good reason, but the flip side is, it might take you a very long and boring time to find that one item you're looking for. On the other hand, you'll have to create a robust market where people are yelling for items, trying to find retainers that they know sells that item. This system does have potential.
I dont' know to what extent people hate the current system because it is soooo different vs. it's a pain in the a$$. I think the answer depends on each person and their willingness to try and partake/develope the type of economy SE visions.
Comments
Oh it's a pain in the ass.
"I wonder if I can find any new pieces of equipment...there are plenty of people leveling their crafting..."
10 retainers later "I DON'T WANT ANY DAMN CLOVES OR DODO MEAT!"
"Finally, a new helm, but man that's like half of my money for only somewhat better stats than mine, let me keep looking"
15 minutes later
"Well, no one really has anything, let me go buy that helm....ah...what was that retainer's name again..." /wrists
It was novel in ragnarok like 10 years ago, but atleast in ragnarok you could NAME your damn shop so people might have an idea of what you're selling. In this you can name your retainer, but constantly dismissing and hiring new ones(and managing their damn inventory + yours, if you dismiss one you lose any items they're holding) just to change their names to what you're trying to sell would be a joke.
If you've been in the Market Ward, it's pretty clear that finding a particular piece of a equipment is a total pain in the ass. I'm sorry but there has got to be better organization system than random crowds of retainers if Square expects the market system to be useful.
Bazaaring on the other hand looks manageable, but seeing unequipped characters standing around all day with the shop icon up is kinda pathetic.
THey already said there will be an ah jus tnot at first also a search feature for the market ward. ffxi did it this way too
If anything the dodo skins are going to be more useful because tanners can turn them into valuable leather. I'm not sure what cooking specialists can make that's actually useful in this game, so I've just dumped most of the meat I've collected.
That's the beauty of it. If you come to specialize in certain equipment, and you put your retainer in a certain area of the market, people will recognize your retainer and buy from you.
That seems more "fun" and "interactive" then just going to an AH and finding the lowest costing item. This way, nobody can control the market and it will be easier to find/spot RMTs.
Edit: "Oh that Harry Harrier sells a lot of leather and skin items... i'll go see if he's selling the items I need." Maybe this is what SE is talking about.....
It's a system that can work if the player make it work, no doubt about it. And plenty of players find it fun running and advertising their own little stores and such.
the problem is to many players these days get frustrated because they want items right then and there when they go looking to buy something.
I think it's a neat idea SE is giving the players a chance to make the market ourselves, but with the way mmo players are this day and age, most will only complain and get frustrated.
XIV is not for the weakhearted or the weakminded.
No they didn't. Source?
This might end up being very similar to how Everquest originally was, when people would line up in the East Commonlands tunnels and spam trade chats all day with what they were selling. The payoff is that you actually spend a lot of time getting to know the high-profile sellers and I don't know about everyone else, but one of my favorite experiences from EQ were the days in the trade tunnel and just interacting with people.
This system does have frustrating portions to it. The level of frustration is compounded by the fact that every other mmo just goes with an AH and calls it a day.
If someone is looking for a game with a better community, where crafting matters, then I guess a little frustration is worth the potential benefits.
SE has said they want Craftes to be an equal class to the diciples of war and magic. IF you add an auction house, crafters becomes professions you do on the side, just like any other recent mmo, compared to what they're intended to be, a class a person can choose to play throughout FFXIV.
I think SE's decision is far harder than people make it out to be. I'm definetely not on the "SE is stupid not to have an AH, how backwards can they be" bandwagon. I kinda like what they're trying to create even if the beginning stages aren't really showing its true potential.
Sadly, the potential will never be realized if people don't try. And it seems, the mmo market is filled with people who think an AH should be standard in every game. That's a little sad.
Problem is that this system was leagues better than the current cumbersome and bulky retainer system implemented in FFXIV. Fixing the lag will do wonders, but it still has a way to go before it becomes a feature people are going to actually want to use.
In EQ I could go to Eastern Commonlands and generally find the item I want. It was also obvious what the prices of items were on that server rather than having to go through each retainer - usually loaded with junk items - one by one I could do price comparisons based on the current shouts. It became obvious if you were asking too much for an item that was common, and you'd have to lower your price accordingly. The way the system is currently setup it could take hours sorting through all the retainers trying to find the item you wanted (in EQ you'd know within a couple minutes if the item in EC tunnels was up for sale or not) and it will be even worse if you are doing any sort of price comparison. I could also interact specifically with the trader and haggle prices, which you cannot do with the current retainer system.
Shouts don't seem to carry as far in FFXIV and also shouting is generally looked down upon by Japanese players, so you can't really make due with the same system, though you can shout in cities and I'd imagine that will be one of the major ways to sell items - but a lot of people in cities aren't going to tolerate that sort of spam (it was okay in EC, as that wasn't a town and rather more of a trading hub, plus there were specific channels).
Currently the best way I've found to sell items is to make your character a walking bazaar and idle in areas where your items will likely come in handy. For instance selling shards for crafters idling in the NPC market ward usually nets great profit within a couple of hours. Selling weapons and armor by the weapon vendors or aethyrte crystals is another good way to sell items.
SE is eventually going to give in and put up a search feature for retainers which will make the system sort of like the bazaar was in EQ (only with the annoyance of having to switch instances), but they already said they want to see how this retainer system works without a search feature after release anyway before they add one, even though nearly every feedback associated with the retainers is how it's not going to work in it's current implementation. Until then I'd suggest using a shout or idle player bazaar method to sell goods.
Meh. It's a crappy system and developers implement auction houses for a reason, they're easy.
Oh I don't think it's a crappy system BECAUSE it's not some kind of local warehouse where everyone sells their goods at. I think it's a crappy system currently because there are no titles, no signs, no icons to even give you the slightest hint of what someone is selling. You also can't make a billion stalls for every retainer, but what do they do instead? They throw them randomly in a small hallway which you sit and spam targeting. Reasons like these are why I believe an AH is common, instead of getting through the logistics of giving everyone's shop 3d space, not too little not too much, and tools to help them distinguish themselves from others of what their shop is selling, they throw it up in a web type interface and let you navigate it with searches and specificity breakdowns.
I love when developers promote a lack of modern features one would expect in a new MMORPG as a feature in and of itself. It's my biggest problem with most newly released sandbox titles.
well, I don't really mind this type of system, but it feels so "eastern", as in, most eastern style mmos have no AH and instead private market, so I am not sure if this is just "an excuse" by the developers.
what I do dislike about the system though is, that it can lead to overcrowded areas with salesperson next to salesperson shouting out their message. makes it cluttered, laggy, simply horrible. Seen it in lineage 2, in Silkroad, and in other eastern-style-mmos. a plain and simple practicle reason not to do it actually and it has nothing to do with casual, hardcore, adventureous, or whatever.
Which goes to show you the kind of people that post here.
I'll agree with one thing: If you're going to have a market ("auction house"), do it right. If not, leave it out.
Example of a game that has a market AND very complex crafting: EVE.
Example of a game that has a market and not very complex crafting: WoW.
Just saying "We don't have an AH yay!" and expecting crafting to be "better" is silly. Why does an auction house automatically make crafting something you just do on the side? Because you don't get to interact with the seller? So what? I'm still making an item and selling it, competitively, with other crafters. No direct interaction, but interaction nevertheless. The only difference is the buyer doesn't have to go through the inconvenience of rooting me out in a sea of other sellers selling junk.
If you want to buy groceries, do you go to a yard sale or a supermarket? FFXIV says you have to go to the yard sale and hope you get lucky.
In the first sentence you say that people will all come to you and the 3rd sentence you say no one can control the market. But if you get everyone coming to you because its just such a pain to look elsewhere then arent you the one controlling the market?
Ironically it was when eq allowed afk selling in the bazaar that killed east commonlands. But then the bazaar had a search feature.
No because you can set up your retainer next to the other person and sell the items for a cheaper price. Or you can sell the same items at another corner of the market and people might not know about the other retainer on the other side, thus you'll be able to sell your items potentially at a higher price, or at the same price. Whereas, with AH, you have to sell lower and lower.
AH is too passive of a medium for commerce. IT's standard because it's easy. It also makes the economy as an afterthought. AH isn't a bad thing per se, but I would like to see a good balance between AH and market, for example, a heavier tax for selling in the AH vs. no tax for setting up a private shop.
There have been screenshots of an area in Limsa Lominsa with an Auction House sign. People are speculating that AH will be introduced down the line. There was an AH in FFXI. I think SE wants to develop the market system before introducing the AH.
Think about it, if you have an AH right at the start, then no one will even try using retainers or the market ward. SE will kill off the market ward idea before it ever has a chance.
Their reason actually makes pretty good sense. I mean it would still suck if you were looking for one item. At the same time if you went to the trade channel and asked I'm sure you'd get a response. I guess I do hope for an AH but GW1 didn't even have a barazzar and I could still stuff pretty well.
Ive been playing the beta for a few weeks, and hands down the most trying aspect of this game is the crafting/market system, and since this game is 100% crafted run economy, i really hope the make it a bit more friendly, no auction house, no recipie book, no tutorial, no guidance...
I see a lot of crafters who arent hardcore from ff11 throwing their hands up in frustration. I want an indpeth crafting system bt there are some things that just make sense, and not having a recipie book does not fall into that category. No auction house just seems to make life even harder then it should be.
Why cant they have the retainer system, but the auction house is more of a search function for the retainers, and they are bound to the city they are in, so 3 auction houses with 3 seperate netowrks, that would create price diversity.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Or anyone with a job, or a family, or a social life.
I don't buy it. Why go out of your way to make the entire experience painful for the players? The only people who won't be affected are larger guilds that will end up crafting for their members anyhow (the AH does nothing for them but provide better access to materials). This most directly affects "solo" players or those who dabble in crafting but need to buy most of their items from other players.
I'm all for player-driven economies, but this is just silly.
Hmm, no AH...retainers, crafter stock, location, location, location. Yup, sounds a lot like the original system from DAoC, and as an avid crafter there I absolutely loved it that way, well before they added in the EASY add ons.
In the beginning, when you purchased your house and placed your shop keepers, you always loked for the best spot to buy so you could get yoru customers to show up. You stocked yoru vendors with your goods and advertsied to your customers to get them to come by and browse what you had. People came to know your skills, and your wares, and they made special trips out to see you. If you didnt have what they needed they stuck around at your house and waited for you to come home so they could place a special order with you, a custome order.
And then, they added the market search kiask at the entrance to housing, and nobody entered the housing zones again except to DUMP whatever crap they had on thier vendors and they were off again. Noone ever visited the neighborhoods anymore, nobody came to your shop anymore. It became a desolate landscape of empty houses with even emptier vendors. The crafters no longer checked thier shops everyday and spent the time crafting to restock what they sold, they just didnt care anymore. And crafting became just a green bar from hell grind with the occasion profit on the side.
Now I dont know what SE has planned in FFXIV for housing, or an auction house system, but...what I do know is that if I had a choice between the hard way that actually brings life to the world and worth to the crafting profession, or the I want easy buying and selling that destroys the life of the crafter, I would no doubt chose the hard way. As a crafter first in any MMO I play, its a make or break for me. Once the crafting becomes useless as a means of enjoyment to me, so does the game become useless to me, and I normally move on.
An add on of an aution house is fine but as long as it doesn't take away from the privately owned, specialty crafter shops than I'm all for it. But pleae dont ask for something just because its easy at the expense of killing the life of the world around it. Some of us actually like the immersion of an MMO world beyond leveling, xp, and gear ego.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)