I don't need perfection. Games come with bugs and I accept that as reality. I'm gonna take what they give me and i'm gonna have fun with it. I love SE and their games and I trust them to release a quality product.
I preordered this game, but I am seriously considering canceling that preorder. I will have to wait and see how I feel. Right now I am bored so , I may still get it.
Every single RPG game out there controls and dictate player progression. It comes with the genre. The experience curve - the meaning of it sole existence is to control player's progression.
So instead of having a dynamic system like this they jack up the experience curve to make it like Lineage 2 or AION. It will affect the lower end players (casual ones) most strongly as they hardly feel any progress at all.
At least this way, they can control the progression of the hardcore player while allow the casual player to progress at normal pace.
In the end, it's all depend on where they set the threshold and what are they planning to allow us to use the accumulated "bonus points" for.
People that pay a subscription to a game that will basically turn off on you after 8 hours of play in a week are not smart. Dumbest thing to say now that the system has been explained & we know it doesn't work like that at all.
They are sheep. Yeah right, they are sheep for wanting to play one of the few game that does it differently than WoW & its legion of clone. Who did you say wasn't smart again? You should look in a mirror...
Every single RPG game out there controls and dictate player progression. It comes with the genre. The experience curve - the meaning of it sole existence is to control player's progression.
So instead of having a dynamic system like this they jack up the experience curve to make it like Lineage 2 or AION. It will affect the lower end players (casual ones) most strongly as they hardly feel any progress at all.
At least this way, they can control the progression of the hardcore player while allow the casual player to progress at normal pace.
In the end, it's all depend on where they set the threshold and what are they planning to allow us to use the accumulated "bonus points" for.
You are a smart guy. Not many people get it or the motivations and you seem to have it pretty much nailed down.
No point getting all emotional. Either the game is for you or it isn't. SE has an idea in mind for how they want their game to play out and that is what they are going to do. All games have rules. Not everyone loves the rules. You can either accept them or not play. Really no use getting all bent out of sorts over it. SE doesn't owe you anything and doesn't expect anything from you.
Oh my god... Another one bring a stupid idea to the discussion.
How is this, in any way, a rule?
Thou may not grind and out level anybody!
Thou may level every class or thou may be punished!
Thou may not have fun.
Thou may pay each month or thou may not play!
Haha never done this, oh well.. The point is, this mechanic ruin the gameplay of certain player to give the advantage to player who have short limit of time. Which is totally stupid. It's not a rule in any way.
Thepoint is, you're physical level Xp will STOP for good after a certain time. Sure, you can level other class but you will NOT progress on your physical level. Which mean they are forcing you to stay at that level and force you to grind other class. Which just plain stink.
Did you see any of the post by testers saying that go to level cap in just over two weeks. Level cap being 30 in beta. Obviously this system hasn't hindered them at all.
I only played for about 4 days last week. I got my character to physical level 16. It happened so fast and easy I didn't even realize it was happening. My jobs were around level 8, Tharm, Pug, Maurader.
Thepoint is, you're physical level Xp will STOP for good after a certain time. Sure, you can level other class but you will NOT progress on your physical level. Which mean they are forcing you to stay at that level and force you to grind other class. Which just plain stink.
As for Chouj's comment on Gold Farming.... It's not for that because Loot and Drop will still be possible even if you gain no XP... so therefor it has no effet on the economy.
You havent played the beta ?
Physical lv --> stats, always few levels over your rank.
Rank/skill points---> Is the actual level of your class.This is the actual progression.
They lv on a ratio of 3-1 (physical/rank).
Please just stop puting the wrong info.Im amazed just how can people try to convince you of somethin when they havent even tryed the game yet.
Thepoint is, you're physical level Xp will STOP for good after a certain time. Sure, you can level other class but you will NOT progress on your physical level. Which mean they are forcing you to stay at that level and force you to grind other class. Which just plain stink.
Did you see any of the post by testers saying that go to level cap in just over two weeks. Level cap being 30 in beta. Obviously this system hasn't hindered them at all.
I only played for about 4 days last week. I got my character to physical level 16. It happened so fast and easy I didn't even realize it was happening. My jobs were around level 8, Tharm, Pug, Maurader.
Well, I'll have to see what happen if theere is a open beta or not. Obviously, I'll get the game if ti doesn't hinder my fun... If it does, I'm not getting it... So I guess only open beta will say it. So far I believe SE shot themself in the feet wit this idea.
Thepoint is, you're physical level Xp will STOP for good after a certain time. Sure, you can level other class but you will NOT progress on your physical level. Which mean they are forcing you to stay at that level and force you to grind other class. Which just plain stink.
As for Chouj's comment on Gold Farming.... It's not for that because Loot and Drop will still be possible even if you gain no XP... so therefor it has no effet on the economy.
You havent played the beta ?
Physical lv --> stats, always few levels over your rank.
Rank/skill points---> Is the actual level of your class.This is the actual progression.
They lv on a ratio of 3-1 (physical/rank).
Please just stop puting the wrong info.
How is it wrong info?
After 8hour, the next 7hour will decrease your Xp. To finally hit 0%, You may change class to gain Profession skill Xp but your physical level WILL NOT level up anymore until a certain time, They said it would be possible to refresh it but I havent heard how.
I said, they force you to stay at that physical level to force you to grind other profession rank. So far, everything is right.
Thepoint is, you're physical level Xp will STOP for good after a certain time. Sure, you can level other class but you will NOT progress on your physical level. Which mean they are forcing you to stay at that level and force you to grind other class. Which just plain stink.
As for Chouj's comment on Gold Farming.... It's not for that because Loot and Drop will still be possible even if you gain no XP... so therefor it has no effet on the economy.
You havent played the beta ?
Physical lv --> stats, always few levels over your rank.
Rank/skill points---> Is the actual level of your class.This is the actual progression.
They lv on a ratio of 3-1 (physical/rank).
Please just stop puting the wrong info.
How is it wrong info?
After 8hour, the next 7hour will decrease your Xp. To finally hit 0%, You may change class to gain Profession skill Xp but your physical level WILL NOT level up anymore until a certain time, They said it would be possible to refresh it but I havent heard how.
I said, they force you to stay at that physical level to force you to grind other profession rank. So far, everything is right.
So again, how is it wrong info?
Becouse your physical level is not your actual level , but just how many stats you have, is not the same.The point for being global is becouse your not supoused to have 100k HP at lv 1 when you change class. Your making a big fuss over nothin man, seriously. I played the beta and it was definetly brokend , read the article of the reasons they put of why it kicked in so fast.
Also they said they will lower the physical surplus gain since is global, so whats the problem really ? comon man im really trying to explain it here.
Also is NOT BASED ON A TIMER, is based on what they calculated would be the MAX EXP to get grinding no stop in 8h. You do anythin else but grind and it recovers,and 1 week later whatever you have it or not , it will reset to 0.
The class rank level determines your general level and abilities. The physical level has very little impact. A rank 1/phys 1 Lancer and a rank1/phys10 Lancer are not all that different. The stats are scaled based on your rank so physical progression is not near as important as your current class rank.
Becouse your physical level is not your actual level , but just how many stats you have, is not the same.The point for being global is becouse your not supoused to have 100k HP at lv 1 when you change class. Your making a big fuss over nothin man, seriously. I played the beta and it was definetly brokend , read the article of the reasons they put of why it kicked in so fast.
Also they said they will lower the physical surplus gain since is global, so whats the problem really ? comon man im really trying to explain it here.
Also is NOT BASED ON A TIMER, is based on what they calculated would be the MAX EXP to get grinding no stop in 8h. You do anythin else but grind and it recovers,and 1 week later whatever you have it or not , it will reset to 0.
Uhm... what!? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You're implying your physical level somehow 'doesn't count' in this game, when infact it makes a huge difference (not so much for crafting, mostly for professions of war). Yes, Physical lvl determines stats, profession rank determines what skills you can use / and how monsters will con to you. However, with a developed physical lvl it is MUCH easier to take on harder mobs for your profession's rank. IE say I was phys 10, lancer 3. I could solo red con mobs no sweat, and get a really nice amount of exp. However, if I was phys 3, lancer 3 i would get my ass kicked every time. It makes a huge difference.
I'm glad you've played the beta, so have a lot of people on this site, myself included. I'm not sure where you're getting the info that the system was 'broken', when SE themselves stated only that the system is implemented, they increased exp gains for beta, and that they will continue tweaking the system until launch to try and find a good balance. Nothing about it not working as they intended it to.
@aesperus: Physical level is not all that important. Your stats seem to scale based on your rank. They help a little, but not a ton. The rank in your current class is the main dictator of your ability and efficiency.
Becouse your physical level is not your actual level , but just how many stats you have, is not the same.The point for being global is becouse your not supoused to have 100k HP at lv 1 when you change class. Your making a big fuss over nothin man, seriously. I played the beta and it was definetly brokend , read the article of the reasons they put of why it kicked in so fast.
Also they said they will lower the physical surplus gain since is global, so whats the problem really ? comon man im really trying to explain it here.
Also is NOT BASED ON A TIMER, is based on what they calculated would be the MAX EXP to get grinding no stop in 8h. You do anythin else but grind and it recovers,and 1 week later whatever you have it or not , it will reset to 0.
Uhm... what!? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You're implying your physical level somehow 'doesn't count' in this game, when infact it makes a huge difference (not so much for crafting, mostly for professions of war). Yes, Physical lvl determines stats, profession rank determines what skills you can use / and how monsters will con to you. However, with a developed physical lvl it is MUCH easier to take on harder mobs for your profession's rank. IE say I was phys 10, lancer 3. I could solo red con mobs no sweat, and get a really nice amount of exp. However, if I was phys 3, lancer 3 i would get my ass kicked every time. It makes a huge difference.
Burekyu explained it pretty well;
The class rank level determines your general level and abilities. The physical level has very little impact. A rank 1/phys 1 Lancer and a rank1/phys10 Lancer are not all that different. The stats are scaled based on your rank so physical progression is not near as important as your current class rank.
Let me add the physical level will always be on your main class way over your rank lv, as the gain ratio is 3-1 or somethin like that.So its just a system to have it controled or so i would say, so the physical doesnt get to far away from your rank.
I'm glad you've played the beta, so have a lot of people on this site, myself included. I'm not sure where you're getting the info that the system was 'broken', when SE themselves stated only that the system is implemented, they increased exp gains for beta, and that they will continue tweaking the system until launch to try and find a good balance. Nothing about it not working as they intended it to.
Quoted from SE beta forum info;
This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:
- Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
- To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
- The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)
That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.
We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.
Im runing out of words and patience at trying to explain this.
I'll just say this: it's a game stuck in the past.
And just that; if you're the nostalgic person who reminisces about PvE in the MMO's of the past, you might like this one, if you can deal with the hideous control setup that is.
The devs know nothing about making a game casual, but seem to be delusional about that with their recent decisions.
Personally? I offered my feedback on their forums and I feel like I've had it take up place on my hard drive for long enough.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Definitely will be. I have said multiple times that this isn't going to effect 90% of the playerbase, and for those it does effect we have no idea how it will all play out. The game just isn't made to be beneficial for someone to solo grind one class 20 hours a day. Leves are on cooldown, fatigue, etc. That may turn some players off, but down the line when we see how it all plays out who knows what will happen.
Yeah, exactly.
FUCK SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO PAY FOR A GAME AND ENJOY IT HOW THEY WISH TO!
What were those dumb shits thinking? Wanting to play a RPG with a group of other players and specializing in a role? Don't they know there's other classes!? What fucking idiots they are. How dare they choose 'one' way to play when they have to choose many!? What kind of choice is that when they have the forced choice of being everything?! Why would they expect end game content to be thoughtful boss fights and maze like puzzles that require a coordinated effort with friends and colleagues? When they can level up using an axe for 2 hours or so, and then go craft for 2 hours or so (despite the fact it looks like to get any progression done whilst crafting it'd easily take 4), and then they can go skin all the bodies of the sheep laid strewn about by the noobs who are switching classes every 30 minutes and therefor limiting all of that EXTRA FREE LOVE xp bonus so thoughtfully granted to them by SE designers and therefore not being hindered what so ever.
The point's made.
This game is savable if the fanbois would just ask SE to remove some of the dumb ass mechanics in place.
Yes, yes, and yes. Not only did I pre-order it once, but now twice! Every time I see someone like this, responding like this, and saying they will not be playing this game, it makes me want to play it even more. Please for the love of God, drive away all these people from this game FOREVER! And maybe, just maybe we might come out of this with a decent game, with a good player base, and a friendly community.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Although my final decision never was dependant on the surplus debate anyways.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Definitely will be. I have said multiple times that this isn't going to effect 90% of the playerbase, and for those it does effect we have no idea how it will all play out. The game just isn't made to be beneficial for someone to solo grind one class 20 hours a day. Leves are on cooldown, fatigue, etc. That may turn some players off, but down the line when we see how it all plays out who knows what will happen.
Yeah, exactly.
FUCK SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO PAY FOR A GAME AND ENJOY IT HOW THEY WISH TO!
What were those dumb shits thinking? Wanting to play a RPG with a group of other players and specializing in a role? Don't they know there's other classes!? What fucking idiots they are. How dare they choose 'one' way to play when they have to choose many!? What kind of choice is that when they have the forced choice of being everything?! Why would they expect end game content to be thoughtful boss fights and maze like puzzles that require a coordinated effort with friends and colleagues? When they can level up using an axe for 2 hours or so, and then go craft for 2 hours or so (despite the fact it looks like to get any progression done whilst crafting it'd easily take 4), and then they can go skin all the bodies of the sheep laid strewn about by the noobs who are switching classes every 30 minutes and therefor limiting all of that EXTRA FREE LOVE xp bonus so thoughtfully granted to them by SE designers and therefore not being hindered what so ever.
The point's made.
This game is savable if the fanbois would just ask SE to remove some of the dumb ass mechanics in place.
Yes, yes, and yes. Not only did I pre-order it once, but now twice! Every time I see someone like this, responding like this, and saying they will not be playing this game, it makes me want to play it even more. Please for the love of God, drive away all these people from this game FOREVER! And maybe, just maybe we might come out of this with a decent game, with a good player base, and a friendly community.
I also enjoy not putting shotguns into my mouth and putting my toe on the trigger.
Yes yes yes. The more fucking tools who kill themselves the happier I am going out into public.
But to suffice, if an idiot enjoys being penalized while playing a game. Good for them. The only bad thing is future developers will see this and think "What else can we add to keep people from actually PLAYING the game and costing us server and bandwidth fees, but keep them paying?"
Seriously. If you want to be a good human give your money away to a charity.
Actually, you are being penalized while playing game, you just don't recognized it.
Let's consider 2 cases shall we? Say you have a weekend free you can:
1- Doing nothing else, grind till your eye bleed and you get 1 level
or
2- They give you an "I WIN" button, press it and you get 1 level, but then the button is on cool down, you can do whatever you want in game while waiting for it to come back
In the end the results of the 2 cases are the same, you get one level, you make progress. But judging from the reaction in the forum lately, I would say a lot of people will pick option 1 because it gives them an illusion of being free.
You see, there are no FREEDOM here. The developer control everything. They have the exp incomming rate because they write the exp table in the first place. They can control how fast you level and if they say, you cannot get more than 1 level a weekend, there's no way you can get 2 (well, unless you cheat...)
You see the psychological effect? You thought that you have the freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want but you are wrong. You are dictated how you play the moment you started.
This method Square-Enix using is neither better nor worse than any other method, it's just different.
Definitely will be. I have said multiple times that this isn't going to effect 90% of the playerbase, and for those it does effect we have no idea how it will all play out. The game just isn't made to be beneficial for someone to solo grind one class 20 hours a day. Leves are on cooldown, fatigue, etc. That may turn some players off, but down the line when we see how it all plays out who knows what will happen.
Yeah, exactly.
FUCK SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO PAY FOR A GAME AND ENJOY IT HOW THEY WISH TO!
What were those dumb shits thinking? Wanting to play a RPG with a group of other players and specializing in a role? Don't they know there's other classes!? What fucking idiots they are. How dare they choose 'one' way to play when they have to choose many!? What kind of choice is that when they have the forced choice of being everything?! Why would they expect end game content to be thoughtful boss fights and maze like puzzles that require a coordinated effort with friends and colleagues? When they can level up using an axe for 2 hours or so, and then go craft for 2 hours or so (despite the fact it looks like to get any progression done whilst crafting it'd easily take 4), and then they can go skin all the bodies of the sheep laid strewn about by the noobs who are switching classes every 30 minutes and therefor limiting all of that EXTRA FREE LOVE xp bonus so thoughtfully granted to them by SE designers and therefore not being hindered what so ever.
The point's made.
This game is savable if the fanbois would just ask SE to remove some of the dumb ass mechanics in place.
Yes, yes, and yes. Not only did I pre-order it once, but now twice! Every time I see someone like this, responding like this, and saying they will not be playing this game, it makes me want to play it even more. Please for the love of God, drive away all these people from this game FOREVER! And maybe, just maybe we might come out of this with a decent game, with a good player base, and a friendly community.
I also enjoy not putting shotguns into my mouth and putting my toe on the trigger.
Yes yes yes. The more fucking tools who kill themselves the happier I am going out into public.
But to suffice, if an idiot enjoys being penalized while playing a game. Good for them. The only bad thing is future developers will see this and think "What else can we add to keep people from actually PLAYING the game and costing us server and bandwidth fees, but keep them paying?"
Seriously. If you want to be a good human give your money away to a charity.
Thats way too funny, see I was thinking that the people who go around calling others they dont even know 'fucking tools', 'dumb shits', and 'idiots' and who base thier outrageous opinions off assumptions and heresay are well, yeah wastes to the human gene pool. So in that way I might just be happier to go out in public with them not around me. I could be wrong though, perhaps you can enlighten us all with some more of your colorful metaphors of how we dont measure up to your obvious high standards in life.
EDIT: I dont want this to sound like i am baiting you into posting more negative posts, so I have edited it to clarify that is not my intention. Please do not post a response, I'm sure everyone here can live without the vulgar commentary in our discussions.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Definitely will be. I have said multiple times that this isn't going to effect 90% of the playerbase, and for those it does effect we have no idea how it will all play out. The game just isn't made to be beneficial for someone to solo grind one class 20 hours a day. Leves are on cooldown, fatigue, etc. That may turn some players off, but down the line when we see how it all plays out who knows what will happen.
Yeah, exactly.
FUCK SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO PAY FOR A GAME AND ENJOY IT HOW THEY WISH TO!
What were those dumb shits thinking? Wanting to play a RPG with a group of other players and specializing in a role? Don't they know there's other classes!? What fucking idiots they are. How dare they choose 'one' way to play when they have to choose many!? What kind of choice is that when they have the forced choice of being everything?! Why would they expect end game content to be thoughtful boss fights and maze like puzzles that require a coordinated effort with friends and colleagues? When they can level up using an axe for 2 hours or so, and then go craft for 2 hours or so (despite the fact it looks like to get any progression done whilst crafting it'd easily take 4), and then they can go skin all the bodies of the sheep laid strewn about by the noobs who are switching classes every 30 minutes and therefor limiting all of that EXTRA FREE LOVE xp bonus so thoughtfully granted to them by SE designers and therefore not being hindered what so ever.
The point's made.
This game is savable if the fanbois would just ask SE to remove some of the dumb ass mechanics in place.
Yes, yes, and yes. Not only did I pre-order it once, but now twice! Every time I see someone like this, responding like this, and saying they will not be playing this game, it makes me want to play it even more. Please for the love of God, drive away all these people from this game FOREVER! And maybe, just maybe we might come out of this with a decent game, with a good player base, and a friendly community.
I also enjoy not putting shotguns into my mouth and putting my toe on the trigger.
Yes yes yes. The more fucking tools who kill themselves the happier I am going out into public.
But to suffice, if an idiot enjoys being penalized while playing a game. Good for them. The only bad thing is future developers will see this and think "What else can we add to keep people from actually PLAYING the game and costing us server and bandwidth fees, but keep them paying?"
Seriously. If you want to be a good human give your money away to a charity.
Actually, you are being penalized while playing game, you just don't recognized it.
Let's consider 2 cases shall we? Say you have a weekend free you can:
1- Doing nothing else, grind till your eye bleed and you get 1 level
or
2- They give you an "I WIN" button, press it and you get 1 level, but then the button is on cool down, you can do whatever you want in game while waiting for it to come back
In the end the results of the 2 cases are the same, you get one level, you make progress. But judging from the reaction in the forum lately, I would say a lot of people will pick option 1 because it gives them an illusion of being free.
You see, there are no FREEDOM here. The developer control everything. They have the exp incomming rate because they write the exp table in the first place. They can control how fast you level and if they say, you cannot get more than 1 level a weekend, there's no way you can get 2 (well, unless you cheat...)
You see the psychological effect? You thought that you have the freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want but you are wrong. You are dictated how you play the moment you started.
This method Square-Enix using is neither better nor worse than any other method, it's just different.
Funny thing though eburn is your exactly the type of individual that actually makes developers make only single player, instanced, games more dominant and exactly the things FF does oddly address. Surplus system is itself just a bonus in exp and doesn't penalize you for a job. On the bigger picture however, it does follow a similar thought that most developers have. Do you need a healer and a tank? No. Is it required technically in even WoW? No. Having said that does job specialization ACTUALLY benefit a group as a whole? Yes. Is it my fault your into the emo sh*t that is pree 2007? Not my fault.
If your emo, want to do stuff your way, hey that's fine. I heard it went well for Leeroy Jenkins too. And outside that argument EVERY GAME HAS A DEVELOPER THAT MAKES THE RULE AND IF YOUR DUMB@SS THINKS YOU CAN MAKE A GAME DO, GO ON I'LL GIVE YOU EVERY PIECE OF SHIT I OWN IF YOU THINK YOUR SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE A GAME HALF AS DECENT AS YOU BELIEVE FF IS. And THAT'S the damn point: ppl whine and whine and whine and whine w/out any input as to how programing a game works and without any inkling of a game works. In fact if your dumbass made a game it'd just consist of a person shooting everything. Hey guess what, THAT'S WHAT THEY MADE THE XBOX 360, PS3 AND NINTENDO WII DUMB MORONIC PIECE OF SH*T. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM PLAYING WITH OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T HUGGED ENOUGH AS A CHILD ITS CALLED A CONSOLE GAME, BUY ONE. AND YOU EVEN MORE RETARDED FOR FORGETTING A MMORPG IS SUPPOSED TO BE FRIGGIN PLAYED WITH OTHER PEOPLE.
So yes I don't think anything about your post having anything of value eburn. In fact I think your posts lack both common sense and a sign of intelligence. At least if I bash on a game i give damn good reasons and support. I don't go "omfg why doesn't a game make me do this" or that". Why doesn't monopoly let you role 3 dice instead of 2? OMG Parker Brother's robbed me of freedom in Monopoly! Holy Sh*T ppl we've been getting raped in monopoly too and not just FF14! Now ain't that epic sh*t.
IF your a good human do us a favor, donate your PC to someone with brains who can use the sh*t. We're all bad humans because we pay to get penalized is your argument? Hey well I could say that about tons of sh*t too: The McDonalds I bought earlier, The vacuum filter I got [could've just let the dirt be there and say f**k to being clean], even the 2-liter coke. I'm technically being penalized both in terms of health and money because I could've just drank water.
The fact is when someone like you gets overly obsessed about trivialities about this sh*t and show so much friggin hatred, ask yourself wth are you doing, I mean really. I'm not buying FF14 and I just leave it at that. I don't like the Ah mechanism in place nor do I have as much faith in the development as I used to but that's it. I won't loose sleep over it. WoW has as many dumbass mechanics in itself as FF14 seems to have. Do us a favor and go into their forums and say
1) why is everything so easy initially and end game is the focus, why can't i do other stuff...oh wait this is wow its all about being e~peen and endgame
2)why can't i do shit with other ppl, oh wait there's no real community
3) why is crap instanced?
I'm being overly harsh to WoW but if your looking for a problem free game, ain't gonna happen. Hearing that now, does the emo prick want a blade and end his annoying us for now or are you gonna whine about something that hasn't been released and your being such a friggin Paris Hilton over crap that none of us know 100% for sure.
I'm purely on a wait-and-see approach at the moment. The system sounds potentially problematic but what a lot of people seem to fail to realise is that the levelling concept in FFXIV is very different to other mainstream western MMOs.
Most people are going to NEED to level more than one class in order to be effective. Role specific skills are broken up across all the classes so if you wish to build your typical tank you will need to learn the skills from multiple different classes. If you play in this way the surplus XP system will likely never affect you! Most people will likely also want to dabble in crafting or harvesting classes which again will make it less likely that you ever see the effects of the surplus system.
In FFXI you NEEDED to level one or more subjobs to match your main job else you would be extremely weak for your level, not to mention far less versatile. If SE had implemented a system by which to force players to keep their subjobs leveled I expect there would have been a similar reaction as to this and yet the players still played exactly the same way since to be effective required it whether you were forced to do it or not.
The only people this is likely to affect are the hardcore players, the same hardcore players that, if this system were not implemented, would find themselves at higher levels with extremely weak characters. I've actually begun to see this mechanic as a safety harness of sorts to drive the players to play in a way that they may not be used to. Unfortunately the western audience is so closed minded to anything 'different' they automatically cry foul.
I think I should also point out that SE have a very different idea of what the 'point' of an MMO is. They take the oldschool approach of focussing on community and are more than willing to sacrifice ease of use on the combat side of things if they feel it will encourage players to interact with each other more. If all you care about is combat in MMOs I seriously suggest you look elsewhere as that never has been and never will be the focus of this game.
Definitely will be. I have said multiple times that this isn't going to effect 90% of the playerbase, and for those it does effect we have no idea how it will all play out. The game just isn't made to be beneficial for someone to solo grind one class 20 hours a day. Leves are on cooldown, fatigue, etc. That may turn some players off, but down the line when we see how it all plays out who knows what will happen.
Yeah, exactly.
FUCK SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO PAY FOR A GAME AND ENJOY IT HOW THEY WISH TO!
What were those dumb shits thinking? Wanting to play a RPG with a group of other players and specializing in a role? Don't they know there's other classes!? What fucking idiots they are. How dare they choose 'one' way to play when they have to choose many!? What kind of choice is that when they have the forced choice of being everything?! Why would they expect end game content to be thoughtful boss fights and maze like puzzles that require a coordinated effort with friends and colleagues? When they can level up using an axe for 2 hours or so, and then go craft for 2 hours or so (despite the fact it looks like to get any progression done whilst crafting it'd easily take 4), and then they can go skin all the bodies of the sheep laid strewn about by the noobs who are switching classes every 30 minutes and therefor limiting all of that EXTRA FREE LOVE xp bonus so thoughtfully granted to them by SE designers and therefore not being hindered what so ever.
The point's made.
This game is savable if the fanbois would just ask SE to remove some of the dumb ass mechanics in place.
Yes, yes, and yes. Not only did I pre-order it once, but now twice! Every time I see someone like this, responding like this, and saying they will not be playing this game, it makes me want to play it even more. Please for the love of God, drive away all these people from this game FOREVER! And maybe, just maybe we might come out of this with a decent game, with a good player base, and a friendly community.
I also enjoy not putting shotguns into my mouth and putting my toe on the trigger.
Yes yes yes. The more fucking tools who kill themselves the happier I am going out into public.
But to suffice, if an idiot enjoys being penalized while playing a game. Good for them. The only bad thing is future developers will see this and think "What else can we add to keep people from actually PLAYING the game and costing us server and bandwidth fees, but keep them paying?"
Seriously. If you want to be a good human give your money away to a charity.
Anyone see the irony here ?
He complains SE tells him what to do, and your calling people who do like what SE intend to do "insert insult here " for not sharing your opinion?
It seems to me this discussion is going way to far, you eighter like it , or not. Dont come crying here stupid ideals of "you cant tell me what to do " or " i dont pay to be told what to do ". in any MMO freedom is bound by reality and those "walls" are made by the developers. Even in the real word freedom is a vage term, only used by those who cant eat up what they are been feed down the troath. There is no freedom on an MMO or a game in general, the only thin is on this MMOs they actually give you an insight of just howbig of a prision you do have. If they dont whant you to grind 10h straight, becouse THIS IS THE ONLY penalty your geting from surplus, for whatever reason they have , they will do it, they telling you before you buy the product , not after.I will play it and i will enjoy it, and many others will as well.
Stop telling me what to do ? isnt that what your telling SE?, well right back at ya.
Comments
I will certainly be getting it.
I don't need perfection. Games come with bugs and I accept that as reality. I'm gonna take what they give me and i'm gonna have fun with it. I love SE and their games and I trust them to release a quality product.
---
Live a life less ordinary.
I preordered this game, but I am seriously considering canceling that preorder. I will have to wait and see how I feel. Right now I am bored so , I may still get it.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Every single RPG game out there controls and dictate player progression. It comes with the genre. The experience curve - the meaning of it sole existence is to control player's progression.
So instead of having a dynamic system like this they jack up the experience curve to make it like Lineage 2 or AION. It will affect the lower end players (casual ones) most strongly as they hardly feel any progress at all.
At least this way, they can control the progression of the hardcore player while allow the casual player to progress at normal pace.
In the end, it's all depend on where they set the threshold and what are they planning to allow us to use the accumulated "bonus points" for.
You are a smart guy. Not many people get it or the motivations and you seem to have it pretty much nailed down.
Oh my god... Another one bring a stupid idea to the discussion.
How is this, in any way, a rule?
Thou may not grind and out level anybody!
Thou may level every class or thou may be punished!
Thou may not have fun.
Thou may pay each month or thou may not play!
Haha never done this, oh well.. The point is, this mechanic ruin the gameplay of certain player to give the advantage to player who have short limit of time. Which is totally stupid. It's not a rule in any way.
Did you see any of the post by testers saying that go to level cap in just over two weeks. Level cap being 30 in beta. Obviously this system hasn't hindered them at all.
I only played for about 4 days last week. I got my character to physical level 16. It happened so fast and easy I didn't even realize it was happening. My jobs were around level 8, Tharm, Pug, Maurader.
You havent played the beta ?
Physical lv --> stats, always few levels over your rank.
Rank/skill points---> Is the actual level of your class.This is the actual progression.
They lv on a ratio of 3-1 (physical/rank).
Please just stop puting the wrong info.Im amazed just how can people try to convince you of somethin when they havent even tryed the game yet.
Well, I'll have to see what happen if theere is a open beta or not. Obviously, I'll get the game if ti doesn't hinder my fun... If it does, I'm not getting it... So I guess only open beta will say it. So far I believe SE shot themself in the feet wit this idea.
How is it wrong info?
After 8hour, the next 7hour will decrease your Xp. To finally hit 0%, You may change class to gain Profession skill Xp but your physical level WILL NOT level up anymore until a certain time, They said it would be possible to refresh it but I havent heard how.
I said, they force you to stay at that physical level to force you to grind other profession rank. So far, everything is right.
So again, how is it wrong info?
Becouse your physical level is not your actual level , but just how many stats you have, is not the same.The point for being global is becouse your not supoused to have 100k HP at lv 1 when you change class. Your making a big fuss over nothin man, seriously. I played the beta and it was definetly brokend , read the article of the reasons they put of why it kicked in so fast.
Also they said they will lower the physical surplus gain since is global, so whats the problem really ? comon man im really trying to explain it here.
Also is NOT BASED ON A TIMER, is based on what they calculated would be the MAX EXP to get grinding no stop in 8h. You do anythin else but grind and it recovers,and 1 week later whatever you have it or not , it will reset to 0.
Game - very well.
Many beta players - crazy, stooped.
The class rank level determines your general level and abilities. The physical level has very little impact. A rank 1/phys 1 Lancer and a rank1/phys10 Lancer are not all that different. The stats are scaled based on your rank so physical progression is not near as important as your current class rank.
Uhm... what!? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You're implying your physical level somehow 'doesn't count' in this game, when infact it makes a huge difference (not so much for crafting, mostly for professions of war). Yes, Physical lvl determines stats, profession rank determines what skills you can use / and how monsters will con to you. However, with a developed physical lvl it is MUCH easier to take on harder mobs for your profession's rank. IE say I was phys 10, lancer 3. I could solo red con mobs no sweat, and get a really nice amount of exp. However, if I was phys 3, lancer 3 i would get my ass kicked every time. It makes a huge difference.
I'm glad you've played the beta, so have a lot of people on this site, myself included. I'm not sure where you're getting the info that the system was 'broken', when SE themselves stated only that the system is implemented, they increased exp gains for beta, and that they will continue tweaking the system until launch to try and find a good balance. Nothing about it not working as they intended it to.
@aesperus: Physical level is not all that important. Your stats seem to scale based on your rank. They help a little, but not a ton. The rank in your current class is the main dictator of your ability and efficiency.
I played the beta, I'm happy I did.
I'll just say this: it's a game stuck in the past.
And just that; if you're the nostalgic person who reminisces about PvE in the MMO's of the past, you might like this one, if you can deal with the hideous control setup that is.
The devs know nothing about making a game casual, but seem to be delusional about that with their recent decisions.
Personally? I offered my feedback on their forums and I feel like I've had it take up place on my hard drive for long enough.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Yes, yes, and yes. Not only did I pre-order it once, but now twice! Every time I see someone like this, responding like this, and saying they will not be playing this game, it makes me want to play it even more. Please for the love of God, drive away all these people from this game FOREVER! And maybe, just maybe we might come out of this with a decent game, with a good player base, and a friendly community.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Undecided
Although my final decision never was dependant on the surplus debate anyways.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Actually, you are being penalized while playing game, you just don't recognized it.
Let's consider 2 cases shall we? Say you have a weekend free you can:
1- Doing nothing else, grind till your eye bleed and you get 1 level
or
2- They give you an "I WIN" button, press it and you get 1 level, but then the button is on cool down, you can do whatever you want in game while waiting for it to come back
In the end the results of the 2 cases are the same, you get one level, you make progress. But judging from the reaction in the forum lately, I would say a lot of people will pick option 1 because it gives them an illusion of being free.
You see, there are no FREEDOM here. The developer control everything. They have the exp incomming rate because they write the exp table in the first place. They can control how fast you level and if they say, you cannot get more than 1 level a weekend, there's no way you can get 2 (well, unless you cheat...)
You see the psychological effect? You thought that you have the freedom to do whatever you want, whenever you want but you are wrong. You are dictated how you play the moment you started.
This method Square-Enix using is neither better nor worse than any other method, it's just different.
Thats way too funny, see I was thinking that the people who go around calling others they dont even know 'fucking tools', 'dumb shits', and 'idiots' and who base thier outrageous opinions off assumptions and heresay are well, yeah wastes to the human gene pool. So in that way I might just be happier to go out in public with them not around me. I could be wrong though, perhaps you can enlighten us all with some more of your colorful metaphors of how we dont measure up to your obvious high standards in life.
EDIT: I dont want this to sound like i am baiting you into posting more negative posts, so I have edited it to clarify that is not my intention. Please do not post a response, I'm sure everyone here can live without the vulgar commentary in our discussions.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I will not be buying this game. Being penalized for playing how i want to? NO THANKS
Funny thing though eburn is your exactly the type of individual that actually makes developers make only single player, instanced, games more dominant and exactly the things FF does oddly address. Surplus system is itself just a bonus in exp and doesn't penalize you for a job. On the bigger picture however, it does follow a similar thought that most developers have. Do you need a healer and a tank? No. Is it required technically in even WoW? No. Having said that does job specialization ACTUALLY benefit a group as a whole? Yes. Is it my fault your into the emo sh*t that is pree 2007? Not my fault.
If your emo, want to do stuff your way, hey that's fine. I heard it went well for Leeroy Jenkins too. And outside that argument EVERY GAME HAS A DEVELOPER THAT MAKES THE RULE AND IF YOUR DUMB@SS THINKS YOU CAN MAKE A GAME DO, GO ON I'LL GIVE YOU EVERY PIECE OF SHIT I OWN IF YOU THINK YOUR SMART ENOUGH TO MAKE A GAME HALF AS DECENT AS YOU BELIEVE FF IS. And THAT'S the damn point: ppl whine and whine and whine and whine w/out any input as to how programing a game works and without any inkling of a game works. In fact if your dumbass made a game it'd just consist of a person shooting everything. Hey guess what, THAT'S WHAT THEY MADE THE XBOX 360, PS3 AND NINTENDO WII DUMB MORONIC PIECE OF SH*T. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM PLAYING WITH OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T HUGGED ENOUGH AS A CHILD ITS CALLED A CONSOLE GAME, BUY ONE. AND YOU EVEN MORE RETARDED FOR FORGETTING A MMORPG IS SUPPOSED TO BE FRIGGIN PLAYED WITH OTHER PEOPLE.
So yes I don't think anything about your post having anything of value eburn. In fact I think your posts lack both common sense and a sign of intelligence. At least if I bash on a game i give damn good reasons and support. I don't go "omfg why doesn't a game make me do this" or that". Why doesn't monopoly let you role 3 dice instead of 2? OMG Parker Brother's robbed me of freedom in Monopoly! Holy Sh*T ppl we've been getting raped in monopoly too and not just FF14! Now ain't that epic sh*t.
IF your a good human do us a favor, donate your PC to someone with brains who can use the sh*t. We're all bad humans because we pay to get penalized is your argument? Hey well I could say that about tons of sh*t too: The McDonalds I bought earlier, The vacuum filter I got [could've just let the dirt be there and say f**k to being clean], even the 2-liter coke. I'm technically being penalized both in terms of health and money because I could've just drank water.
The fact is when someone like you gets overly obsessed about trivialities about this sh*t and show so much friggin hatred, ask yourself wth are you doing, I mean really. I'm not buying FF14 and I just leave it at that. I don't like the Ah mechanism in place nor do I have as much faith in the development as I used to but that's it. I won't loose sleep over it. WoW has as many dumbass mechanics in itself as FF14 seems to have. Do us a favor and go into their forums and say
1) why is everything so easy initially and end game is the focus, why can't i do other stuff...oh wait this is wow its all about being e~peen and endgame
2)why can't i do shit with other ppl, oh wait there's no real community
3) why is crap instanced?
I'm being overly harsh to WoW but if your looking for a problem free game, ain't gonna happen. Hearing that now, does the emo prick want a blade and end his annoying us for now or are you gonna whine about something that hasn't been released and your being such a friggin Paris Hilton over crap that none of us know 100% for sure.
I'm purely on a wait-and-see approach at the moment. The system sounds potentially problematic but what a lot of people seem to fail to realise is that the levelling concept in FFXIV is very different to other mainstream western MMOs.
Most people are going to NEED to level more than one class in order to be effective. Role specific skills are broken up across all the classes so if you wish to build your typical tank you will need to learn the skills from multiple different classes. If you play in this way the surplus XP system will likely never affect you! Most people will likely also want to dabble in crafting or harvesting classes which again will make it less likely that you ever see the effects of the surplus system.
In FFXI you NEEDED to level one or more subjobs to match your main job else you would be extremely weak for your level, not to mention far less versatile. If SE had implemented a system by which to force players to keep their subjobs leveled I expect there would have been a similar reaction as to this and yet the players still played exactly the same way since to be effective required it whether you were forced to do it or not.
The only people this is likely to affect are the hardcore players, the same hardcore players that, if this system were not implemented, would find themselves at higher levels with extremely weak characters. I've actually begun to see this mechanic as a safety harness of sorts to drive the players to play in a way that they may not be used to. Unfortunately the western audience is so closed minded to anything 'different' they automatically cry foul.
I think I should also point out that SE have a very different idea of what the 'point' of an MMO is. They take the oldschool approach of focussing on community and are more than willing to sacrifice ease of use on the combat side of things if they feel it will encourage players to interact with each other more. If all you care about is combat in MMOs I seriously suggest you look elsewhere as that never has been and never will be the focus of this game.
Anyone see the irony here ?
He complains SE tells him what to do, and your calling people who do like what SE intend to do "insert insult here " for not sharing your opinion?
It seems to me this discussion is going way to far, you eighter like it , or not. Dont come crying here stupid ideals of "you cant tell me what to do " or " i dont pay to be told what to do ". in any MMO freedom is bound by reality and those "walls" are made by the developers. Even in the real word freedom is a vage term, only used by those who cant eat up what they are been feed down the troath. There is no freedom on an MMO or a game in general, the only thin is on this MMOs they actually give you an insight of just howbig of a prision you do have. If they dont whant you to grind 10h straight, becouse THIS IS THE ONLY penalty your geting from surplus, for whatever reason they have , they will do it, they telling you before you buy the product , not after.I will play it and i will enjoy it, and many others will as well.
Stop telling me what to do ? isnt that what your telling SE?, well right back at ya.