Are there any in development that i am just not aware off/ didnt get the memo. Or is everything in the near future themeparkin it up
Thing is the sandbox MMOs don't shut down, which means not as many new ones pop up.
UO and AC are both still running after 11 years for example. Sandbox games just have a loyal group of players. Combine that with all the clueless companies who think the only way to make money is with a WoW clone and the result is new sandbox MMOs are few and far between.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Are there any in development that i am just not aware off/ didnt get the memo. Or is everything in the near future themeparkin it up
Thing is the sandbox MMOs don't shut down, which means not as many new ones pop up.
UO and AC are both still running after 11 years for example. Sandbox games just have a loyal group of players. Combine that with all the clueless companies who think the only way to make money is with a WoW clone and the result is new sandbox MMOs are few and far between.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Are there any in development that i am just not aware off/ didnt get the memo. Or is everything in the near future themeparkin it up
Thing is the sandbox MMOs don't shut down, which means not as many new ones pop up.
UO and AC are both still running after 11 years for example. Sandbox games just have a loyal group of players. Combine that with all the clueless companies who think the only way to make money is with a WoW clone and the result is new sandbox MMOs are few and far between.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
Face of Mankind, you can play it 100% free with an option to sub for the extra perks like having an apartment.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Are there any in development that i am just not aware off/ didnt get the memo. Or is everything in the near future themeparkin it up
Thing is the sandbox MMOs don't shut down, which means not as many new ones pop up.
UO and AC are both still running after 11 years for example. Sandbox games just have a loyal group of players. Combine that with all the clueless companies who think the only way to make money is with a WoW clone and the result is new sandbox MMOs are few and far between.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
You are wrong by the way.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
You are wrong by the way.
Nope, actually he's right and you.....you are wrong.
This is a much better way to have a discussion isn't it?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
You are wrong by the way.
Nope, actually he's right and you.....you are wrong.
This is a much better way to have a discussion isn't it?
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
What happened is; someone ruined SWG, and now there's 200,000 people out there trolling gaming forums. GIVE US OUR SWG-type GAME BACK OR WE'LL NEVER LEAVE HAHA! (We're the terrorists of the MMORPG community, hehe).
MMO gamers today can't play a game without a guideline or reward for everything they do is the issue. It's the era of achievements. MMO can't even get relatively close to getting PvP right. .
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
EVE is up at like 340k these days. I'm fairly certain LOTRO was well under that the last time I heard, and I was under the impression that AION was not doing so well on this side of the pond.
As far as current P2P mmorpgs go in the west, what game aside from WOW has more subs than EVE?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
EVE is up at like 340k these days. I'm fairly certain LOTRO was well under that the last time I heard, and I was under the impression that AION was not doing so well on this side of the pond.
As far as current P2P mmorpgs go in the west, what game aside from WOW has more subs than EVE?
None, and if you look at why people dislike EvE it's mostly because they find the combat boring or the lack of a human avatar.
Nothing to do with it being a player driven non-linear game.
Are there any in development that i am just not aware off/ didnt get the memo. Or is everything in the near future themeparkin it up
Thing is the sandbox MMOs don't shut down, which means not as many new ones pop up.
UO and AC are both still running after 11 years for example. Sandbox games just have a loyal group of players. Combine that with all the clueless companies who think the only way to make money is with a WoW clone and the result is new sandbox MMOs are few and far between.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
what do people mean by statements like this? If we can just exclude WoW for one minute- if you compare the population for EVE Online against other MMOs in it's category you will quickly see it's outperforming many like EQ2, CoX, Champions, Star trek (i could be wrong on star trek havent seen the numbers), etc.
Anyone know the sub numbers (ball park) for star trek MMO? Surely EVE is stomping it too
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
You are wrong by the way.
Nope, actually he's right and you.....you are wrong.
This is a much better way to have a discussion isn't it?
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
Aion and Lotro are not above EvE in subs. This may change very soon with LotRO's F2P switch though. I don't know in what crazy world you think Aion and LotRO have a ton more subs then 300k, apparently you do not have a realistic view on the MMO market. There is only one MMO that has way more subs then 300k and it is WoW.
Aion, like many new MMOs, started with very high initial numbers and then dropped down significantly.
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
EVE is up at like 340k these days. I'm fairly certain LOTRO was well under that the last time I heard, and I was under the impression that AION was not doing so well on this side of the pond.
As far as current P2P mmorpgs go in the west, what game aside from WOW has more subs than EVE?
Aion is at 400,000 plus just in the west (see old xfire comparison between Aion and Eve). Aion has millions if you include the East as well. Once you add the East, you hit Lineage with millions as well. Final Fantasy XI has nearly one million subs as well (mostly in Japan).
You were right about LoTRO. LoTRO is somewhere around 250 - 300k subs. I can understand throwing out Chinese subs because of how little they pay but Japan and S Korea players are paying nearly as much as in the West. The East contributes a ton to the bottom line.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
You are wrong by the way.
Nope, actually he's right and you.....you are wrong.
This is a much better way to have a discussion isn't it?
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
Aion and Lotro are not above EvE in subs. This may change very soon with LotRO's F2P switch though. I don't know in what crazy world you think Aion and LotRO have a ton more subs then 300k, apparently you do not have a realistic view on the MMO market. There is only one MMO that has way more subs then 300k and it is WoW.
Aion, like many new MMOs, started with very high initial numbers and then dropped down significantly.
Aion has 3milion and something I think, you are forgeting about asia.
What is the point of using a word while no one can agree on it's meaning?
If I ask 5 people here to define sandbox it will problably result in 5 different definitions.
...
True, but just point them to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay). Games like City of Heroes, FFXI, etc would never get past their basic definition either. Even Champions Online which comes closer to blurring the lines would clearly fail this definition
"A video game with nonlinear gameplay (sandbox style) presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots"
Traditional Level based games clearly fail this basic definition since they force you to progress from point A to point B... When I played WoW, like every other nooblet I went from Barrens -> elf forests -> Winterspring -> Lava mountains etc. Granted, all MMO at least have sub-quests and optional subplots. Still, a sandbox lover can feel themselves being hurled along in a strict linear fashion. So maybe thats up for argument and you might be right
EvE is one of the top played MMOs in North America. UO and SWG were both top MMOs in their time (up there with EQ, AC, etc.). If 300k is niche, how many MMOs besides WoW have non-niche numbers in NA? I mean, if we discard WoW for a moment and look at AoC, WAR, TR, Vanguard, etc. - I would say the status quo is not what people want.
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
You are wrong by the way.
Nope, actually he's right and you.....you are wrong.
This is a much better way to have a discussion isn't it?
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
Aion and Lotro are not above EvE in subs. This may change very soon with LotRO's F2P switch though. I don't know in what crazy world you think Aion and LotRO have a ton more subs then 300k, apparently you do not have a realistic view on the MMO market. There is only one MMO that has way more subs then 300k and it is WoW.
Aion, like many new MMOs, started with very high initial numbers and then dropped down significantly.
Aion has 3milion and something I think, you are forgeting about asia.
I'm not forgetting about Asia. As with almost every discussion on these English speaking boards we are discussing MMOs in a western context. Other wise we would also mention games with millions of players such as Lineage.
What is the point of using a word while no one can agree on it's meaning?
If I ask 5 people here to define sandbox it will problably result in 5 different definitions.
...
True, but just point them to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay). Games like City of Heroes, FFXI, etc would never get past their basic definition either. Even Champions Online which comes closer to blurring the lines would clearly fail this definition
"A video game with nonlinear gameplay (sandbox style) presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots"
Traditional Level based games clearly fail this basic definition since they force you to progress from point A to point B... When I played WoW, like every other nooblet I went from Barrens -> elf forests -> Winterspring -> Lava mountains etc
The fact that this defition is on wikipedia don't help at all, if tons of people still disagree with it.
What is the point of using a word while no one can agree on it's meaning?
If I ask 5 people here to define sandbox it will problably result in 5 different definitions.
...
True, but just point them to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay). Games like City of Heroes, FFXI, etc would never get past their basic definition either. Even Champions Online which comes closer to blurring the lines would clearly fail this definition
"A video game with nonlinear gameplay (sandbox style) presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots"
Traditional Level based games clearly fail this basic definition since they force you to progress from point A to point B... When I played WoW, like every other nooblet I went from Barrens -> elf forests -> Winterspring -> Lava mountains etc
The fact that this defition is on wikipedia don't help at all, if tons of people still disagree with it.
Your whole focus is going to be on the use of the word sandbox? While we're at it let's not use any of these other words since some people have a different take on them when the majority clearly understand the terms:
Comments
Why isn't Dawntide on this website? Is there a better source out there for MMO's? How did you hear about this game?
Thing is the sandbox MMOs don't shut down, which means not as many new ones pop up.
UO and AC are both still running after 11 years for example. Sandbox games just have a loyal group of players. Combine that with all the clueless companies who think the only way to make money is with a WoW clone and the result is new sandbox MMOs are few and far between.
Shameless selfplug.
http://www.wurmonline.com/
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Sandboxes are few and far between cause the vast majority of mmo gamers dont want them.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
we will?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
95% chance.
15days 3hours 40min.
If you want the foundations of this speculation I can show that.
The fact that UO and AC were both around the same population as EQ when those three games were the big ones around (so 2/3rds of the gamers were playing sandbox). The fact that they are still running and that EvE is one of the top MMOs out there. The fact that sandbox MMOs haven't had to close down due to lack of profits unlike many theme park MMOs, are all facts contrary to your statement.
Theme park MMOs get to call the biggest MMO out there theirs. Just because there is one MMO that has huge success due to timing more then anything else does not suddenly mean that the "vast majority" of gamers don't want them.
Fantastic use of one sentence with zero evidence to back up the claim though.
Face of Mankind, you can play it 100% free with an option to sub for the extra perks like having an apartment.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
You are wrong by the way.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Nope, actually he's right and you.....you are wrong.
This is a much better way to have a discussion isn't it?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
This gets silly. The highest population sandbox is Eve at around 300k subs. Aion, LoTRO, not to mention WoW have a ton more subs. Sandboxs are a niche market in MMOs.
Now, if you want to talk console games well numbers can change. Maybe Rockstar should make a Grand Theft Auto MMO.
Here is a curve ball.
Define a Sandbox MMORPG
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
MMO gamers today can't play a game without a guideline or reward for everything they do is the issue. It's the era of achievements. MMO can't even get relatively close to getting PvP right. .
EVE is up at like 340k these days. I'm fairly certain LOTRO was well under that the last time I heard, and I was under the impression that AION was not doing so well on this side of the pond.
As far as current P2P mmorpgs go in the west, what game aside from WOW has more subs than EVE?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
None, and if you look at why people dislike EvE it's mostly because they find the combat boring or the lack of a human avatar.
Nothing to do with it being a player driven non-linear game.
what do people mean by statements like this? If we can just exclude WoW for one minute- if you compare the population for EVE Online against other MMOs in it's category you will quickly see it's outperforming many like EQ2, CoX, Champions, Star trek (i could be wrong on star trek havent seen the numbers), etc.
Anyone know the sub numbers (ball park) for star trek MMO? Surely EVE is stomping it too
Aion and Lotro are not above EvE in subs. This may change very soon with LotRO's F2P switch though. I don't know in what crazy world you think Aion and LotRO have a ton more subs then 300k, apparently you do not have a realistic view on the MMO market. There is only one MMO that has way more subs then 300k and it is WoW.
Aion, like many new MMOs, started with very high initial numbers and then dropped down significantly.
When I use the word, I mean a world built on simulations (as opposed to scripts).
Aion is at 400,000 plus just in the west (see old xfire comparison between Aion and Eve). Aion has millions if you include the East as well. Once you add the East, you hit Lineage with millions as well. Final Fantasy XI has nearly one million subs as well (mostly in Japan).
You were right about LoTRO. LoTRO is somewhere around 250 - 300k subs. I can understand throwing out Chinese subs because of how little they pay but Japan and S Korea players are paying nearly as much as in the West. The East contributes a ton to the bottom line.
Aion has 3milion and something I think, you are forgeting about asia.
True, but just point them to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay). Games like City of Heroes, FFXI, etc would never get past their basic definition either. Even Champions Online which comes closer to blurring the lines would clearly fail this definition
"A video game with nonlinear gameplay (sandbox style) presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots"
Traditional Level based games clearly fail this basic definition since they force you to progress from point A to point B... When I played WoW, like every other nooblet I went from Barrens -> elf forests -> Winterspring -> Lava mountains etc. Granted, all MMO at least have sub-quests and optional subplots. Still, a sandbox lover can feel themselves being hurled along in a strict linear fashion. So maybe thats up for argument and you might be right
I love how people say sandbox games are niche.
EvE is one of the top played MMOs in North America. UO and SWG were both top MMOs in their time (up there with EQ, AC, etc.). If 300k is niche, how many MMOs besides WoW have non-niche numbers in NA? I mean, if we discard WoW for a moment and look at AoC, WAR, TR, Vanguard, etc. - I would say the status quo is not what people want.
I'm not forgetting about Asia. As with almost every discussion on these English speaking boards we are discussing MMOs in a western context. Other wise we would also mention games with millions of players such as Lineage.
The fact that this defition is on wikipedia don't help at all, if tons of people still disagree with it.
Your whole focus is going to be on the use of the word sandbox? While we're at it let's not use any of these other words since some people have a different take on them when the majority clearly understand the terms:
MMO
AAA
Theme Park
RPG
Instanced
Game
The