It's more like walking in to a poorly designed MMO where the facemen and facewomen try very hard to convince you the flaws are features and you just need to learn to like them. Guess what, that's the same thing I say to girls when I want them to try anal sex.
Thank you for your review. It seems well thought out and based on it I have cancelled my preorder. If what you said was even remotely true it sounds like the game is coming out before it is finished. Or perhaps it is just meant for consoles. You saved me $50.
P.S. FF2 and 3 on the SNES were the best games I've ever played. I was purchasing the game based on those.
I have to admit, that's a pretty good review from the perspective of the average gamer who is somewhat lacking in imagination and is technically inept enough that he can't even be bothered to create a macro through the convenient in-game interface without it being a major travesty of impossibly obtuse interface curve.
Some people will tell me that this is a fault of Final Fantasy XIV. I would tell them that I rather appreciate a game with a minimum intelligence barrier of entry.
You know, it's quite the contrary: I didn't find the game complex at all outside of the gratuitous amount of time it took to navigate the menus. I think the mechanics of the game, if nothing else, are far too simple. Having to make macros to do things that you can do in other games without the need for macros doesn't make the game require more intelligence to play, it just makes it take more time to do the same thing. It's certainly no Ryzom(which is almost entirely run off of macros but at least for a good reason). The learning curve for the game is one more of memorization than of invention. To me, the only challenge I experienced in the game was dealing with the interface without pulling my hair out or trying not to fall asleep during combat. 2 keystrokes to use a skill as opposed to 1 isn't going to challenge anyone of average intellect, however if that's what you consider a challenge then this game is for you Geldonyetich.
Perhaps you mistake patience(of which you must have an enormous amount of to play this game) for intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game).
I have to admit, that's a pretty good review from the perspective of the average gamer who is somewhat lacking in imagination and is technically inept enough that he can't even be bothered to create a macro through the convenient in-game interface without it being a major travesty of impossibly obtuse interface curve.
Some people will tell me that this is a fault of Final Fantasy XIV. I would tell them that I rather appreciate a game with a minimum intelligence barrier of entry.
You know, it's quite the contrary: I didn't find the game complex at all outside of the gratuitous amount of time it took to navigate the menus. I think the mechanics of the game, if nothing else, are far too simple. Having to make macros to do things that you can do in other games without the need for macros doesn't make the game require more intelligence to play, it just makes it take more time to do the same thing. It's certainly no Ryzom(which is almost entirely run off of macros but at least for a good reason). The learning curve for the game is one more of memorization than of invention. To me, the only challenge I experienced in the game was dealing with the interface without pulling my hair out or trying not to fall asleep during combat. 2 keystrokes to use a skill as opposed to 1 isn't going to challenge anyone of average intellect, however if that's what you consider a challenge then this game is for you Geldonyetich.
Perhaps you mistake patience(of which you must have an enormous amount of to play this game) for intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game).
The new talking point to try to ignore all criticism is that the game is hardcore and complex. It isn't. It is has by the rails exploration of a small world, no interaction with the limited environment(jumping, etc), a narrow levelling by the numbers system, hotbar skill based combat... absolutely nothing new. Just another wow clone, despite what people seem to want to claim.
I mean, look at Asheron's Call from 10 years ago. MASSIVE world, an essentially limitless level cap, skill based customization of characters, ability to improve running and jumping speed so that you could get anywhere in the game that you can reach, skill based pvp, unique combat/spellcasting system, ability to explore nooks and crannies of a world so that you could discover unique places, skill based pvp system, actual death penalty(though still fair)... nothing like this exists in FFXIV. Just more limited wow like gameworld. By the books in every way. You need macros because the UI sucks does not make it non wow like.
Perhaps you mistake patience(of which you must have an enormous amount of to play this game) for intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game).
Or perhaps it's a matter of taste and priorities someone looks for in a (MMO) game that can differ from one person to another
Your posts including this last one show clearly to me what your stance and your negative bias towards the game is - accusing everyone that enjoys the game of basically being stupid and morons does not sound objective to me - and as other reviews and impressions pieces evidently show there's more variety of opinions and more constructive positive ones to be found than the simple 'my opinion about the game is the only truth' as you seem to pose it.
Not that your review didn't have informative pieces in it, but it's good to realise that it was clearly biased on the negative side. After all, stating that people who're positive about the game and have less qualms about its shortcomings, are fanbois or lacking intelligence doesn't really exude objectivity, now, does it?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Perhaps you mistake patience(of which you must have an enormous amount of to play this game) for intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game).
Or perhaps it's a matter of taste and priorities someone looks for in a (MMO) game that can differ from one person to another
Your posts including this last one show clearly to me what your stance and your negative bias towards the game is - accusing everyone that enjoys the game of basically being stupid and morons does not sound objective to me - and as other reviews and impressions pieces evidently show there's more variety of opinions and more constructive positive ones to be found than the simple 'my opinion about the game is the only truth' as you seem to pose it.
Not that your review didn't have informative pieces in it, but it's good to realise that it was clearly biased on the negative side. After all, stating that people who're positive about the game and have less qualms about its shortcomings, are fanbois or lacking intelligence doesn't really exude objectivity, now, does it?
Wow, it is pretty unbelievable how you spun that. One guy claims that only intelligent people could enjoy this by the rails game because macros are needed, since the interface is terrible. Someone responds that it is patience that is required with the interface, not intelligence. You then respond with mumbo jumbo about how the responder is biased, and not the one claiming that creating a macro because of a terrible interface requires intelligence.
If someone points out the obvious faults in a game, it doesn't make them biased. If someone MAKES UP faults that don't exist, THAT would prove bias.
According to you, you are going to find a LOT of "biased" reviews when the game comes out and they rightfully bash the game for the faults. You would do better off joining an echo chamber website so you could be shielded from any criticism.
If you’d looked in the Start Menu (or the folder it was installed to OR read the manual/beta site) there’s a config file to run. You problems with fullscreen/res shouldn’t wouldn’t have occurred if you didn’t assume (perhaps you were right to assume)
THE MOUSE IS NOT NEEDED! – You genuinely wont get any advantage using it, I do agree that they should have fixed it so you can have a hardware choice (who knows – they might) but any amount of minimal research on FFXIV would have shown that A – Mouse isn’t needed, B – software mouse isn’t great and can be changed to hardware very easily.
I don’t know how small your icons are, but I’m running 1900 x 1080 on a 24” monitor without issues, (also ran is 1900 x 1200 on a 100” projector, still no problems)
This is a Beta, and if people download a beta without doing any research, then more fool them!
Graphics and Performance:
The game runs fine at 720p and 1080p on my machine (5850, 12GB DDR3, i7 950) on full specs. Never been below 30FPS. On my GF’s machine (4870, 2GB DDR3, Intel Quad 2.9) I can run it at 720p full settings without going below 30FPS. I have no idea why you’re struggling.
I agree that the environments are bland, The cities could use something more to them as well. The world in general doesn’t feel alive!
I’ve only crashed once, that was when my GPU driver died. I get kicked when the server goes down, but never had a proper crash.
Sound and Music:
I’ve not found a place where there’s no music, but I’ve not gotten beyond rank 15 (as I’ve been playing as many different classes as possible). I agree with the repetitiveness of the sounds though.
I wouldn’t like to comment on voice acting, as I don’t know how much will be there. But the more the merrier for me!
Interface:
The macro system really isn’t that unfriendly, there are already a whole bunch of prebuilt macros for certain classes, which take 1 min to find and 30 seconds to work out what they do, how to use them. I agree they could be better implemented and the game should help you with things like when you change a weapon, for example. But for anyone who was clever enough to find a forum on macros, they should be clever enough to use them appropriately.
“a maze of menus to do something as simple as changing your equipment” – This made me laugh. It genuinely take <5 seconds to change weapon, if it takes >10 seconds, then you’re seriously, seriously doing something wrong. I’m a long time PC user and I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the UI. All I can say is stop using the mouse, it’s much quicker not to.
A “Target nearest NPC” would be useful, but it took the whole of 5 seconds to realise that TAB targets nearest target to the righ of you, relative to the camera. Since then I’ve never had to TAB more than a couple of times. If it still annoys you, then theres always a HW mouse.
Combat can seem laggy on occasion, but I’ve not felt (at least the levels I’ve gotten to) that is undynamic. Moving around your target yields a whole bunch of different tatics. Sure you can stand still and fight, but it’s not as much fun.
NPCS:
If you look at what a merchant is standing near, you should be able to tell what they’re selling, or at least what class it might be related to. There are plenty of merchants but you only have to visit any of them once, and remember.
There are too many nonsensical NPC’s, but generally speaking you have to go out of your way to talk to them. I love the fact that NPC’s don’t have names above their heads. It stops the player from just auto piloting everything. It gets them to look and think, using a bit more common sense than just aiming for the bright colours “!”. My first time on each of the starting area quests took me no longer than 40 mins.
Character Creation:
I agree that more variety would be great. But in all fairness armour usually separates people, not their faces. Most people don’t have the camera zoomed in close enough to really tell how many scars a person has (on ANY game). Yes, it would be great to be able to be naked and people recognise you from anyone else in the distance, but there are still very few games which do that. After seeing/reading what they have planned for armour I still think that I can be unique.
Chatting:
if you want to complete multiple leves, then there is sense in saying hello to people around you and making friends. I LOVE the fact there is no global channel, how many games have I played when it’s just shit being spewed from people who I don’t want to read. If you could elaborate how general chat is discouraged, that’d be great. I personally have said hi to plenty of people.
Lack of grouping tools is a shame. But I can see how it can add to the fact that it’s more “Real” if you want to group with someone who you’ve not met before, you have to go to a place where people meet to group and say hi. I would say that FFXIV encourages people to be social, but on a more face-to-face level than most of games.
Shopping:
There arep plenty of vendors in each of the starting areas which offer you to buy every weapons/tool, but yes, the current shopping system sucks quite badly. Which is a moot point if you’re in a guild who help each other out. Player based shopping does need some work.
Questing and Levelling:
I would love to see a more varied quest-type (and apparently more quests will be implemented) The personal story quest does seem fun and I agree that it would be nice ot have a choice in how the story unfolds, as opposed to being unable to effect it (at least what I’ve seen). I don’t mind grinding/exploring and I swap out classes when I feel like I’m getting burnt out of killing the same 3/4 type of mobs (which apparently are more varied later on). Grinding alone, I can get to level 8 in an hour (not timed it), so I don’t think that combat is that slow.
“Lots of superficial options but in reality there is little versatility.” I strongly disagree, once you have level 8 in a varied amount of war/magic classes, you will notice that there is a vast amount of options as to how to kit out your toon. Sure, at the top top end of the game there may be a certain way of optimising ONE class, but it will be a very very long time before anyone is able to say whats optimum using all skills that are available (IE top rank in all class, using skills from all that’s available)
I have no Idea about fatigue, not experience it, even when playing for a long period of time. I think it will effect the seriously hardcore who only level one skill, which isn’t the way to play if you want to be tough. I don’t think anyone can comment on end-game seeing as OB is capped at 30.
Crafting and Gathering:
Completely agree.
It sucks (for “you”) that I am playing a completely different game to most people. I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the game, I’m loving every second of it and cant wait for release. Maybe I have more patience, I dunno. But most of the deal-breakers people are talking about are just simply mountains instead of molehills. Molehills that people may say shouldn’t be there, but generally are fixed by reading a manual/spending 20 mins on a productive forum (which I’m pretty sure everyone’s done with any MMORPG) in my opinion, obviously.
_____________________ Played: Aion, All Points Bulletin, ArchLord, Champions Online, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest II, Fallen Earth, Fantasy Earth Zero, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Metin 2, MU Online, RF Online, Ryzom, Silkroad Online, Star Trek Online, Star Wars Galaxies, The Chronicles of Spellborn and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Wow, it is pretty unbelievable how you spun that. One guy claims that only intelligent people could enjoy this by the rails game because macros are needed, since the interface is terrible. Someone responds that it is patience that is required with the interface, not intelligence. You then respond with mumbo jumbo about how the responder is biased, and not the one claiming that creating a macro because of a terrible interface requires intelligence.
If someone points out the obvious faults in a game, it doesn't make them biased. If someone MAKES UP faults that don't exist, THAT would prove bias.
According to you, you are going to find a LOT of "biased" reviews when the game comes out and they rightfully bash the game for the faults. You would do better off joining an echo chamber website so you could be shielded from any criticism.
Let's start with saying that you dislike FFXIV, almost fully agree with the OP's viewpoint therefore disagree with my comments that cast a shade on the 'objectivity' of the OP, then we can move on from there
Tbh, that 1 post wasn't the only argument why I think he's biased, being convinced that others lack intelligence bc they don't have a problem with the FFXIV's shortcomings that the OP perceived is a roadsign, true. Other signs are his wordings in the OP and comments in other posts of his like where he calls posters who defend the game he doesn't agree with 'fanbois'. Doesn't sound that neutral or nonbiased to me.
Then again, nobody is 100% objective or nonbiased. Truth is, you may not agree with it but there have been other reviewers who shed their lights on the game who didn't share the OP's viewpoint, but were able to post their impressions with a summing up of the good and bad qualities as well, such as these (I didn't even have to search long, these were actually the 1st previews/impressions I encountered in a quick search outside of mmorpg.com):
As I mentioned in the outset, several aspects set Final Fantasy XIV apart from other MMOs. Mechanics, particularly the controls, may act as a hurdle to the mildly interested gamer who tried to pick up the game and jump right into play. The reward for learning a unique system is high for players who want an engaging story from a game that values player skill over time spent online. (TenTonHammer)
Overall i think that this game is going to do quite well. Is it a WOW killer? no. I think some people will play this game until a bigger, better game comes out, but people like myself and so many others will play this game like they did FFXI (spend forever trying to get to a certain goal) however, if SE wants this game to be a hit, they had better fix up some problems or a lot of their playerbase is going to be missing at release. Im going to say a sturdy 8/10 for this one (FFXIV.zam poster)
Don't agree with it? Fine, only believe the OP's impressions, don't play the game, do what you like.
Enough people around that have been playing FFXIV's OB and that have their own opinion and impressions, distinct from the OP and just as valid.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If you’d looked in the Start Menu (or the folder it was installed to OR read the manual/beta site) there’s a config file to run. You problems with fullscreen/res shouldn’t wouldn’t have occurred if you didn’t assume (perhaps you were right to assume)
THE MOUSE IS NOT NEEDED! – You genuinely wont get any advantage using it, I do agree that they should have fixed it so you can have a hardware choice (who knows – they might) but any amount of minimal research on FFXIV would have shown that A – Mouse isn’t needed, B – software mouse isn’t great and can be changed to hardware very easily.
I don’t know how small your icons are, but I’m running 1900 x 1080 on a 24” monitor without issues, (also ran is 1900 x 1200 on a 100” projector, still no problems)
This is a Beta, and if people download a beta without doing any research, then more fool them!
Graphics and Performance:
The game runs fine at 720p and 1080p on my machine (5850, 12GB DDR3, i7 950) on full specs. Never been below 30FPS. On my GF’s machine (4870, 2GB DDR3, Intel Quad 2.9) I can run it at 720p full settings without going below 30FPS. I have no idea why you’re struggling.
I agree that the environments are bland, The cities could use something more to them as well. The world in general doesn’t feel alive!
I’ve only crashed once, that was when my GPU driver died. I get kicked when the server goes down, but never had a proper crash.
Sound and Music:
I’ve not found a place where there’s no music, but I’ve not gotten beyond rank 15 (as I’ve been playing as many different classes as possible). I agree with the repetitiveness of the sounds though.
I wouldn’t like to comment on voice acting, as I don’t know how much will be there. But the more the merrier for me!
Interface:
The macro system really isn’t that unfriendly, there are already a whole bunch of prebuilt macros for certain classes, which take 1 min to find and 30 seconds to work out what they do, how to use them. I agree they could be better implemented and the game should help you with things like when you change a weapon, for example. But for anyone who was clever enough to find a forum on macros, they should be clever enough to use them appropriately.
“a maze of menus to do something as simple as changing your equipment” – This made me laugh. It genuinely take <5 seconds to change weapon, if it takes >10 seconds, then you’re seriously, seriously doing something wrong. I’m a long time PC user and I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the UI. All I can say is stop using the mouse, it’s much quicker not to.
A “Target nearest NPC” would be useful, but it took the whole of 5 seconds to realise that TAB targets nearest target to the righ of you, relative to the camera. Since then I’ve never had to TAB more than a couple of times. If it still annoys you, then theres always a HW mouse.
Combat can seem laggy on occasion, but I’ve not felt (at least the levels I’ve gotten to) that is undynamic. Moving around your target yields a whole bunch of different tatics. Sure you can stand still and fight, but it’s not as much fun.
NPCS:
If you look at what a merchant is standing near, you should be able to tell what they’re selling, or at least what class it might be related to. There are plenty of merchants but you only have to visit any of them once, and remember.
There are too many nonsensical NPC’s, but generally speaking you have to go out of your way to talk to them. I love the fact that NPC’s don’t have names above their heads. It stops the player from just auto piloting everything. It gets them to look and think, using a bit more common sense than just aiming for the bright colours “!”. My first time on each of the starting area quests took me no longer than 40 mins.
Character Creation:
I agree that more variety would be great. But in all fairness armour usually separates people, not their faces. Most people don’t have the camera zoomed in close enough to really tell how many scars a person has (on ANY game). Yes, it would be great to be able to be naked and people recognise you from anyone else in the distance, but there are still very few games which do that. After seeing/reading what they have planned for armour I still think that I can be unique.
Chatting:
if you want to complete multiple leves, then there is sense in saying hello to people around you and making friends. I LOVE the fact there is no global channel, how many games have I played when it’s just shit being spewed from people who I don’t want to read. If you could elaborate how general chat is discouraged, that’d be great. I personally have said hi to plenty of people.
Lack of grouping tools is a shame. But I can see how it can add to the fact that it’s more “Real” if you want to group with someone who you’ve not met before, you have to go to a place where people meet to group and say hi. I would say that FFXIV encourages people to be social, but on a more face-to-face level than most of games.
Shopping:
There arep plenty of vendors in each of the starting areas which offer you to buy every weapons/tool, but yes, the current shopping system sucks quite badly. Which is a moot point if you’re in a guild who help each other out. Player based shopping does need some work.
Questing and Levelling:
I would love to see a more varied quest-type (and apparently more quests will be implemented) The personal story quest does seem fun and I agree that it would be nice ot have a choice in how the story unfolds, as opposed to being unable to effect it (at least what I’ve seen). I don’t mind grinding/exploring and I swap out classes when I feel like I’m getting burnt out of killing the same 3/4 type of mobs (which apparently are more varied later on). Grinding alone, I can get to level 8 in an hour (not timed it), so I don’t think that combat is that slow.
“Lots of superficial options but in reality there is little versatility.” I strongly disagree, once you have level 8 in a varied amount of war/magic classes, you will notice that there is a vast amount of options as to how to kit out your toon. Sure, at the top top end of the game there may be a certain way of optimising ONE class, but it will be a very very long time before anyone is able to say whats optimum using all skills that are available (IE top rank in all class, using skills from all that’s available)
I have no Idea about fatigue, not experience it, even when playing for a long period of time. I think it will effect the seriously hardcore who only level one skill, which isn’t the way to play if you want to be tough. I don’t think anyone can comment on end-game seeing as OB is capped at 30.
Crafting and Gathering:
Completely agree.
Conclusion
It sucks (for “you”) that I am playing a completely different game to most people. I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the game, I’m loving every second of it and cant wait for release. Maybe I have more patience, I dunno. But most of the deal-breakers people are talking about are just simply [molehills instead of mountains]. Molehills that people may say shouldn’t be there, but generally are fixed by reading a manual/spending 20 mins on a productive forum (which I’m pretty sure everyone’s done with any MMORPG) in my opinion, obviously.
Like this one, for example.
Let me quote the equally valid viewpoint from another player who played the OB and who didn't have a number of the complaints and issues of the OP but managed to enjoy the game (a group of people who according to the OP in his words, must be a 'fanboi' or 'lack intelligence'):
"It sucks (for “you”) that I am playing a completely different game to most people. I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the game, I’m loving every second of it and cant wait for release. Maybe I have more patience, I dunno. But most of the deal-breakers people are talking about are just simply [molehills instead of mountains]. Molehills that people may say shouldn’t be there, but generally are fixed by reading a manual/spending 20 mins on a productive forum (which I’m pretty sure everyone’s done with any MMORPG) in my opinion, obviously.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Wow, it is pretty unbelievable how you spun that. One guy claims that only intelligent people could enjoy this by the rails game because macros are needed, since the interface is terrible. Someone responds that it is patience that is required with the interface, not intelligence. You then respond with mumbo jumbo about how the responder is biased, and not the one claiming that creating a macro because of a terrible interface requires intelligence.
If someone points out the obvious faults in a game, it doesn't make them biased. If someone MAKES UP faults that don't exist, THAT would prove bias.
According to you, you are going to find a LOT of "biased" reviews when the game comes out and they rightfully bash the game for the faults. You would do better off joining an echo chamber website so you could be shielded from any criticism.
Let's start with saying that you dislike FFXIV, almost fully agree with the OP's viewpoint therefore disagree with my comments that cast a shade on the 'objectivity' of the OP, then we can move on from there
Tbh, that 1 post wasn't the only argument why I think he's biased, being convinced that others lack intelligence bc they don't have a problem with the FFXIV's shortcomings that the OP perceived is a roadsign, true. Other signs are his wordings in the OP and comments in other posts of his like where he calls posters who defend the game he doesn't agree with 'fanbois'. Doesn't sound that neutral or nonbiased to me.
Then again, nobody is 100% objective or nonbiased. Truth is, you may not agree with it but there have been other reviewers who shed their lights on the game who didn't share the OP's viewpoint, but were able to post their impressions with a summing up of the good and bad qualities as well, such as these (I didn't even have to search long, these were actually the 1st previews/impressions I encountered in a quick search outside of mmorpg.com):
As I mentioned in the outset, several aspects set Final Fantasy XIV apart from other MMOs. Mechanics, particularly the controls, may act as a hurdle to the mildly interested gamer who tried to pick up the game and jump right into play. The reward for learning a unique system is high for players who want an engaging story from a game that values player skill over time spent online. (TenTonHammer)
Overall i think that this game is going to do quite well. Is it a WOW killer? no. I think some people will play this game until a bigger, better game comes out, but people like myself and so many others will play this game like they did FFXI (spend forever trying to get to a certain goal) however, if SE wants this game to be a hit, they had better fix up some problems or a lot of their playerbase is going to be missing at release. Im going to say a sturdy 8/10 for this one (FFXIV.zam poster)
Don't agree with it? Fine, only believe the OP's impressions, don't play the game, do what you like.
Enough people around that have been playing FFXIV's OB and that have their own opinion and impressions, distinct from the OP and just as valid.
How about we start by NOT making things up, shall we? I'm buying the game. In anything that I have interest in or like, I am the FIRST to criticize and publicize my dislikes and criticisms. It is the only way for things to get better. I am not afraid at all of opposing views and I certainly don't feel the need to try to discredit other peoples' opinions.
Sorry, but you can't start an argument with made up assumptions and then use them as facts.
How about we start by NOT making things up, shall we? I'm buying the game. In anything that I have interest in or like, I am the FIRST to criticize and publicize my dislikes and criticisms. It is the only way for things to get better. I am not afraid at all of opposing views and I certainly don't feel the need to try to discredit other peoples' opinions.
Sorry, but you can't start an argument with made up assumptions and then use them as facts.
Then I'm the first to apologize for assuming something that you're not
As I've stated in other posts, I fully agree that (constructive) criticism is the only way to make things better. Whether posting it on a forum here instead of the official/specific game's forums achieves that goal remains the question, but healthy criticism and discussion is always good. Calling disagreeing people fanbois or saying they've a lack of intelligence bc they don't share someone's issues with a game to the extent he does, however, is not.
So I stand for what I said before, OP's viewpoint is not the "ultimate truth", it's just one opinion (and negatively biased, nothing wrong with that as long as people realise it) of a game in beta as there are other differing opinions, impressions and reviews of that game as well, some negative, some neutral, some positive. And all valid.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Tbh, that 1 post wasn't the only argument why I think he's biased, being convinced that others lack intelligence bc they don't have a problem with the FFXIV's shortcomings that the OP perceived is a roadsign, true. Other signs are his wordings in the OP and comments in other posts of his like where he calls posters who defend the game he doesn't agree with 'fanbois'. Doesn't sound that neutral or nonbiased to me.
I think you have the OP confused with someone else, because never once has he mocked the intelligence of players who don't have a problem with FFXIV in any of his 8 posts on these forums (2 in this thread). There WAS a poster who fallaciously called everyone who "couldn't handle" FF14 unintelligent, as if disliking having to navigate an unnecessarily cumbersome UI somehow correlates to intelligence at all. But that's a seperate thread argument that has since burnt out.
The OP did, however, use the term "fanboys" once in another thread:
"And as you can see from this thread, there are an awful lot of fanboys, people who are so emotionally invested into seeing this game succeed that they write up insults in poorly spelt/worded English in an attempt to defend the game. I know it's really hard to get into the open beta with the key denial, 4 day downloads and system crashes but please, don't buy it before you try it."
Here he defensively pulled the classic internet grammar move, and mildly insulted those who disagreed with him. Overall, a less than admirable portion of his post.
However, there is a legitimate basis for the existence of the popular internet term "fanboy." The word was created for a reason. It implies blind loyalty. It's like being in love and involved in a bad relationship. While in the relationship, you're willing to overlook what appear to be teensy, tiny flaws in the relationship. Perhaps you're so deluded by love that you simply can't even see the problems at all. Love is blind, as they say. Only months after the relationship is over can you objectively look back on your experiences and see the flaws that would have clearly never allowed the relationship to work. So too are there bad relationships between fans and games, where some fans are so blindly in love with a particular game/company/genre, that they are either willing to completely overlook any of its flaws or they simply cannot see them at all. That, to me, is what the term "fanboy" implies. Blind fantaticism is a very real psychological phenomenon.
That certainly does not mean that all fans fall into this category. And that's the problem with tossing the now derogatory term "fanboy" around on forums like these; every fan will become offended by it, thus ending all possibility of serious pro/con discussion about the game. Of course, serious pro/con discussion about the game was never possible with the "blindly loyal fans" to begin with. It's like an atheist trying to communicate with a religious fundamentalist. Using the term "fanboy" simply alienates the rest of the "normal" (for lack of a better word) fans as well, just as an atheist referring to religoius fundamentalists as "bible bashers" would immediately alienate all moderate and even liberal religious readers as well.
Switching topics, I'm also confused about your definition of "bias." The review process works as follows: you play and experience a game, you grow to either like or dislike a game for reasons a, b, c, d etc., you write your review explaining why you liked or disliked the game using reasons a, b, c, and d. By your definition, if you play a game and do not enjoy it, you're automatically biased against the game and thus become a less credible source on that particular game. It must follow that if you play a game and enjoy it, you are automatically biased toward the game. In your view, are these people also unfit to comment on the game?
Do you believe the OP had an agenda before ever participating in FF14's alpha/beta for the first time to go out of his way to discover all of the game's inadequecies just so he can write one heck of a negative review a week before the game releases? Or do you believe him when he said he was really looking foward to the game, played it somewhat extensively in beta, and was legitimately put off by flaw after flaw, which he outlines in his review.
Personally, I believe the OP because I can sympathize with his situation entirely. I basically mirror that exact experience and found myself agreeing with many of his viewpoints. (In before obligatory "let me just start by saying you're biased toward the OP" comment.) I'm STARVING for a good MMO to come out, as I'm currently not playing one and haven't been since about March. Being a tremendous fan of the FF series, and having played FFXI for about 2 years, I had high hopes for FF14. You could say I was heavily biased toward the game. However, I too played FF14 in all its closed beta phases and a little in the open beta, and because I didn't let my bias for FF games blindly sway me away from objectivity, I allowed myself to see all the flaws that the OP outlined, and I too was tremendously put off by them. I will not be buying the game.
Now look at it from our perspective. We know there are many players who are looking forward to FF14 just like we were, but have not bothered to test it in beta. Only a small minority of players participate in betas. Precisely because we care passionately about the quality of MMOs do we wish to post our critical findings publically, so as to enlighten fans before making their purchase. And the OP doesn't ask anyone to take his word for it. He simply voices his criticism and encourages players to go try it out while the Beta is free before buying it.
Perhaps many patches/updates from now I'll give FFXIV shot. But by then, GW2 should be out and I have extremely high hopes for that game as I agree with virtually every single design philosophy Arenanet has articulated
This is a perfect post in my eyes, in regards to FFXIV. If I were to send a statement to SE on why I cancelled my pre-order I would copy paste this and send it in as my total reason.
I cancelled my pre-order but I will check back in a year or so and see how things are going once it hits consoles. I still think FFXI is a great game so there is hope for FFXIV no matter how slim of a hope it seems.
I'd like to see a FFXI vet review FFXIV, I don't give a crap about what some clueless guy who finds UI to be more than a minor nuisance and probably plays WoW thinks.
Reviewing a game still in beta is utterly retarded, fyi.
Anyway, about the OP poster (again): among other things he stated as "intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game", talking in terms of fanbois, some stuff in his OP as him seeing an 'awful lot of reused content' - which strangely enough hardly anybody seemed to notice before a few days ago - all this draw a picture to me. When I read a review/report I often also check someone's former posts to get a feel of how neutral or objective the reviewer can be, to be able to regard a review in the right context. The OP, to me, is not neutral: he has shown to have a negatively colored outlook towards FFXIV.
Which is nothing wrong with, but it's like having someone who thoroughly dislikes European or Asian movies, or romantic comedies or torture horror, whatever, have to review one such movie: the person can still be thorough and detailed in his review, but it's written in the colored view of someone who dislikes aspects that are inherent to that type of movie.
If you have a similar stance towards European/Aisan movies, or romantic comedies or torture horror movies, then you'll find yourself agreeing a lot with the commentaries in his review.
As Tilyin's commentaries in an earlier post in this thread show, there are several viewpoints possible: to me, I'd rather have the review of someone who can be as thorough and balanced but who likes European movies/romantic comedies/etc than the review of someone who is negatively predisposed towards that kind of movie and who has no love for that genre.
Is that clearer?
edit: in the end it's of course best to read AND well informed positive reviews AND well informed negative reviews and make up your mind then, that's the most balanced way.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'd like to see a FFXI vet review FFXIV, I don't give a crap about what some clueless guy who finds UI to be more than a minor nuisance and probably plays WoW thinks.
Reviewing a game still in beta is utterly retarded, fyi.
I played ffxi for many years, I wish I could give you a review but like you said its in a beta stage, a restricted beta stage at that so yes it would be utterly retarded for me to write a review on an incomplete product. All I can say for sure from what I have seen in OB, there is a solid foundation for SE to work with to give us another epic MMO. Ill write my launch review after I get some quality time (100+ hours) with the real game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I'd like to see a FFXI vet review FFXIV, I don't give a crap about what some clueless guy who finds UI to be more than a minor nuisance and probably plays WoW thinks.
Reviewing a game still in beta is utterly retarded, fyi.
You know the old addage about assumptions right?
Anyhoo, I did play FFXI for over a year and happen to never have been a big fan of WoW(as it played like an everquest clone to me). Had you read the review, you would have known that at least half of your assumption was outright false(that being that I never played FFXI). If you are curious as to what MMO's I have devoted serious time to(your statement implies that you won't take the word of a [WoW fan]), here's the breakdown:
Enjoyed-
FFXI
Everquest 1
Ultima Online
Asheron's Call 1
Dark Age of Camelot
Ryzom
Anarchy Online
Lineage 1
Guild Wars
Eve Online
City of Heroes/Villains
Hated-
AC2
Shadowbane
Tabula Rasa
Matrix Online
Star Trek Online
Dark & Light
Somewhere in between in the world of average-
D&D Online
WoW
Auto Assault
Star Wars Galaxies
WAR
Allods Online
Everquest 2
Aion
Lineage 2
I have played countless others but not to the same extent. Many of them I played in both beta and release(all in release except for Auto Assault which could've been great were it not rushed to market like a certain other game...) and Final Fantasy XIV is so backwards it won't be making it to that level, which is a shame as I'm starved for a new mmo experience. I am probably a good deal older than most of the users of this forum and can remember dialing in to networks to play muds back in the day.
Reviewing a game in Open Beta(especially this close to release) is as far from retarded as you can get, the developers are giving you an opportunity to playtest the game free of charge. $50-$80 is not a small enough chunk of change for me to throw away without finding out what's to like and what's to dislike about a game, be it from reviewers who are willing to vocalize what they like and dislike about a game(and you have to read more than just one) or, if I'm lucky enough, to try it out for myself. All MMOs get better as they go along, I'd discourage you from believing that reviewing an open beta is being unrepresentitive of the final product. If you do then you'll never be satisifed with a review of the final product as the final product is perpetually a day/week/month away as updates and improvements roll in. MMO's never reach "final product" status. If you liked the game enough to buy it then you should, simple as that. However, given my experience with mmo's and what I look for in one, I find the game to be sorely lacking in many, many different aspects.
This is not directed at the OP, it is just a general comment I felt like making.
I personally like this game a good deal and am pleased that I decided to get the CE. Moreover if you can't find people to talk with and be social with I see that more as a problem with you and not the community. You probably have social issues and act like a jerk. No offense to the people who are just socially awkward.
I go up and just start conversations with people who don't look like they are busy and end up having a great conversation with them. The translation tool is really fun once you get the hang of it. And no I didn't start playing this game with a group of friends, I just started by myself and put myself out there.
Moreover grouping up is the easiest thing in the world. Don't feel all put upon like the world needs you or something, because they don't. People might not be knocking down your door or blowing up your tells but it doesn't mean you can't suck it up and send some tells yourself. I always just ask people who are around me if they would like to party up and I think I've only been told no once. ONCE since OB started.
People will be more than happy to have you even if you are an annoying idiot who knows nothing about the game or gaming in general. However I will be EXTREMELY happy when most of these random people leave and I will stop seeing trolls call people homophobic derogatory terms. I've only seen this a couple of times but it does speak volumes of the maturity level of MMO players in general. So I don't take their complaints seriously.
My experience with OB through the community alone would be around an 8 depending on the server.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I'd like to see a FFXI vet review FFXIV, I don't give a crap about what some clueless guy who finds UI to be more than a minor nuisance and probably plays WoW thinks.
Reviewing a game still in beta is utterly retarded, fyi.
You know the old addage about assumptions right?
Anyhoo, I did play FFXI for over a year and happen to never have been a big fan of WoW(as it played like an everquest clone to me). Had you read the review, you would have known that at least half of your assumption was outright false(that being that I never played FFXI). If you are curious as to what MMO's I have devoted serious time to(your statement implies that you won't take the word of a [WoW fan]), here's the breakdown:
Enjoyed-
FFXI
Everquest 1
Ultima Online
Asheron's Call 1
Dark Age of Camelot
Ryzom
Anarchy Online
Lineage 1
Guild Wars
Eve Online
City of Heroes/Villains
Hated-
AC2
Shadowbane
Tabula Rasa
Matrix Online
Star Trek Online
Dark & Light
Somewhere in between in the world of average-
D&D Online
WoW
Auto Assault
Star Wars Galaxies
WAR
Allods Online
Everquest 2
Aion
Lineage 2
I have played countless others but not to the same extent. Many of them I played in both beta and release(all in release except for Auto Assault which could've been great were it not rushed to market like a certain other game...) and Final Fantasy XIV is so backwards it won't be making it to that level, which is a shame as I'm starved for a new mmo experience. I am probably a good deal older than most of the users of this forum and can remember dialing in to networks to play muds back in the day.
Reviewing a game in Open Beta(especially this close to release) is as far from retarded as you can get, the developers are giving you an opportunity to playtest the game free of charge. $50-$80 is not a small enough chunk of change for me to throw away without finding out what's to like and what's to dislike about a game, be it from reviewers who are willing to vocalize what they like and dislike about a game(and you have to read more than just one) or, if I'm lucky enough, to try it out for myself. All MMOs get better as they go along, I'd discourage you from believing that reviewing an open beta is being unrepresentitive of the final product. If you do then you'll never be satisifed with a review the final product as the final product is perpetually a day/week/month away as updates and improvements roll in. MMO's never reach "final product" status. If you liked the game enough to buy it then you should, simple as that. However, given my experience with mmo's and what I look for in one, I find the game to be sorely lacking in many, many different aspects.
My bad, the FF fanboy in me came out in that post. I skipped some of your review thinking you wanted another WoW from the game but based on your taste I actually respect/believe your opinions now. I still think it's stupid and unfair to review a game in beta though, regardless how close to launch it is. Betas are for technical testing purposes, not playtesting a game to see if you like it or not. SE already said performance will be better at launch. Also, you could've mentioned more important things like comparisons to FFXI instead of petty stuff like UI.
Honestly, if some of the stuff you said is true then that'd really suck(like no good group finding tool), but we can't know anything for sure until launch.
My bad, the FF fanboy in me came out in that post. I skipped some of your review thinking you wanted another WoW from the game but based on your taste I actually respect/believe your opinions now. I still think it's stupid and unfair to review a game in beta though, regardless how close to launch it is. Betas are for technical testing purposes, not playtesting a game to see if you like it or not. SE already said performance will be better at launch. Also, you could've mentioned more important things like comparisons to FFXI instead of petty stuff like UI.
Honestly, if some of the stuff you said is true then that'd really suck(like no good group finding tool), but we can't know anything for sure until launch.
I've played em all, and tested all the rest. I'm not gonna sit here and brag about my system or what games I've played. But I will say honestly there are a hundred things I could say that are great about this game. And a few bad things. But here is a breakdown of my top 10 mmo's, as well as my overall average score from 1-10.
1. EQII - It is still the best overall MMORPG.
2. Star Wars Galaxies - the launch was horrible, making it to Jedi from beta in 8 months was awesome. then some puke noob got to do the same thing just by buying the game 2 years later. The game was awesome. The community f-d it up.
3. FFXIV - This game has the potential to be the best of all time. It's not PC friendly until you hook up a gamepad and set up your macros, but after that, in my opinion everything is there. A learning curve, player economy, robust crafting, a class/action system that makes every person a true individual. I have currently tried out every class.....on one character....what other game allows you to do that?? They are pushing the threashold of RPG. Could we finally have an MMORPG that is ACTUALLY an RPG? Or do we have another, "hey look there goes another one of those zombie lookin things, oh and another that was identical, and another......
4. EQ - it was the orginal that every other was based on. I know about all the others that were released before this one, but they all sucked.
5. Vanguard - Awesome game. Not enough people with badass enough computers to play it. So no one did. It was good.
6. Aion - A newer release that I think belongs here because of the depth of the combat system.
7. WAR- wow clone...only WAY BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop playing that other piece of crap.
8. City of Heroes - Awesome concept, not the greatest execution on world believeablility but the character creation is probably the best of most mmos.
9. Guild Wars - If I want a quick game with a little fun in there. But I really don't like guild wars that much. I think the concept is innovative and belongs on my list. But I mostly put it here so that wow wouldn't fit on my list.
10. ALL OTHER MMO's EXCEPT WOW. ( Okay fan boys and flamers go ahead....because that game attempted to copy what had already been done before...then they kindergardenized it so that Zombies and Heros could play it, in otherwords children and braincell deprived individuals so that they could have a large fanbase. Come on lets be honest, it isn't the Tier whatever armor that makes you happy it's that every time you play that game you know that you are probably smarter than 99% of the server, and it makes you feel smart. Go buy a real mmoRPG. Which is any of them whose character creation has more than 6 options.
So....in my book....FFXIV is right up there with the greats. As long as the community doesn't screw it up.
Comments
It's more like walking in to a poorly designed MMO where the facemen and facewomen try very hard to convince you the flaws are features and you just need to learn to like them. Guess what, that's the same thing I say to girls when I want them to try anal sex.
Thank you for your review. It seems well thought out and based on it I have cancelled my preorder. If what you said was even remotely true it sounds like the game is coming out before it is finished. Or perhaps it is just meant for consoles. You saved me $50.
P.S. FF2 and 3 on the SNES were the best games I've ever played. I was purchasing the game based on those.
You know, it's quite the contrary: I didn't find the game complex at all outside of the gratuitous amount of time it took to navigate the menus. I think the mechanics of the game, if nothing else, are far too simple. Having to make macros to do things that you can do in other games without the need for macros doesn't make the game require more intelligence to play, it just makes it take more time to do the same thing. It's certainly no Ryzom(which is almost entirely run off of macros but at least for a good reason). The learning curve for the game is one more of memorization than of invention. To me, the only challenge I experienced in the game was dealing with the interface without pulling my hair out or trying not to fall asleep during combat. 2 keystrokes to use a skill as opposed to 1 isn't going to challenge anyone of average intellect, however if that's what you consider a challenge then this game is for you Geldonyetich.
Perhaps you mistake patience(of which you must have an enormous amount of to play this game) for intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game).
Spot on
The new talking point to try to ignore all criticism is that the game is hardcore and complex. It isn't. It is has by the rails exploration of a small world, no interaction with the limited environment(jumping, etc), a narrow levelling by the numbers system, hotbar skill based combat... absolutely nothing new. Just another wow clone, despite what people seem to want to claim.
I mean, look at Asheron's Call from 10 years ago. MASSIVE world, an essentially limitless level cap, skill based customization of characters, ability to improve running and jumping speed so that you could get anywhere in the game that you can reach, skill based pvp, unique combat/spellcasting system, ability to explore nooks and crannies of a world so that you could discover unique places, skill based pvp system, actual death penalty(though still fair)... nothing like this exists in FFXIV. Just more limited wow like gameworld. By the books in every way. You need macros because the UI sucks does not make it non wow like.
Or perhaps it's a matter of taste and priorities someone looks for in a (MMO) game that can differ from one person to another
Your posts including this last one show clearly to me what your stance and your negative bias towards the game is - accusing everyone that enjoys the game of basically being stupid and morons does not sound objective to me - and as other reviews and impressions pieces evidently show there's more variety of opinions and more constructive positive ones to be found than the simple 'my opinion about the game is the only truth' as you seem to pose it.
Not that your review didn't have informative pieces in it, but it's good to realise that it was clearly biased on the negative side. After all, stating that people who're positive about the game and have less qualms about its shortcomings, are fanbois or lacking intelligence doesn't really exude objectivity, now, does it?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Wow, it is pretty unbelievable how you spun that. One guy claims that only intelligent people could enjoy this by the rails game because macros are needed, since the interface is terrible. Someone responds that it is patience that is required with the interface, not intelligence. You then respond with mumbo jumbo about how the responder is biased, and not the one claiming that creating a macro because of a terrible interface requires intelligence.
If someone points out the obvious faults in a game, it doesn't make them biased. If someone MAKES UP faults that don't exist, THAT would prove bias.
According to you, you are going to find a LOT of "biased" reviews when the game comes out and they rightfully bash the game for the faults. You would do better off joining an echo chamber website so you could be shielded from any criticism.
First Impressions Count:
If you’d looked in the Start Menu (or the folder it was installed to OR read the manual/beta site) there’s a config file to run. You problems with fullscreen/res shouldn’t wouldn’t have occurred if you didn’t assume (perhaps you were right to assume)
THE MOUSE IS NOT NEEDED! – You genuinely wont get any advantage using it, I do agree that they should have fixed it so you can have a hardware choice (who knows – they might) but any amount of minimal research on FFXIV would have shown that A – Mouse isn’t needed, B – software mouse isn’t great and can be changed to hardware very easily.
I don’t know how small your icons are, but I’m running 1900 x 1080 on a 24” monitor without issues, (also ran is 1900 x 1200 on a 100” projector, still no problems)
This is a Beta, and if people download a beta without doing any research, then more fool them!
Graphics and Performance:
The game runs fine at 720p and 1080p on my machine (5850, 12GB DDR3, i7 950) on full specs. Never been below 30FPS. On my GF’s machine (4870, 2GB DDR3, Intel Quad 2.9) I can run it at 720p full settings without going below 30FPS. I have no idea why you’re struggling.
I agree that the environments are bland, The cities could use something more to them as well. The world in general doesn’t feel alive!
I’ve only crashed once, that was when my GPU driver died. I get kicked when the server goes down, but never had a proper crash.
Sound and Music:
I’ve not found a place where there’s no music, but I’ve not gotten beyond rank 15 (as I’ve been playing as many different classes as possible). I agree with the repetitiveness of the sounds though.
I wouldn’t like to comment on voice acting, as I don’t know how much will be there. But the more the merrier for me!
Interface:
The macro system really isn’t that unfriendly, there are already a whole bunch of prebuilt macros for certain classes, which take 1 min to find and 30 seconds to work out what they do, how to use them. I agree they could be better implemented and the game should help you with things like when you change a weapon, for example. But for anyone who was clever enough to find a forum on macros, they should be clever enough to use them appropriately.
“a maze of menus to do something as simple as changing your equipment” – This made me laugh. It genuinely take <5 seconds to change weapon, if it takes >10 seconds, then you’re seriously, seriously doing something wrong. I’m a long time PC user and I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the UI. All I can say is stop using the mouse, it’s much quicker not to.
A “Target nearest NPC” would be useful, but it took the whole of 5 seconds to realise that TAB targets nearest target to the righ of you, relative to the camera. Since then I’ve never had to TAB more than a couple of times. If it still annoys you, then theres always a HW mouse.
Combat can seem laggy on occasion, but I’ve not felt (at least the levels I’ve gotten to) that is undynamic. Moving around your target yields a whole bunch of different tatics. Sure you can stand still and fight, but it’s not as much fun.
NPCS:
If you look at what a merchant is standing near, you should be able to tell what they’re selling, or at least what class it might be related to. There are plenty of merchants but you only have to visit any of them once, and remember.
There are too many nonsensical NPC’s, but generally speaking you have to go out of your way to talk to them. I love the fact that NPC’s don’t have names above their heads. It stops the player from just auto piloting everything. It gets them to look and think, using a bit more common sense than just aiming for the bright colours “!”. My first time on each of the starting area quests took me no longer than 40 mins.
Character Creation:
I agree that more variety would be great. But in all fairness armour usually separates people, not their faces. Most people don’t have the camera zoomed in close enough to really tell how many scars a person has (on ANY game). Yes, it would be great to be able to be naked and people recognise you from anyone else in the distance, but there are still very few games which do that. After seeing/reading what they have planned for armour I still think that I can be unique.
Chatting:
if you want to complete multiple leves, then there is sense in saying hello to people around you and making friends. I LOVE the fact there is no global channel, how many games have I played when it’s just shit being spewed from people who I don’t want to read. If you could elaborate how general chat is discouraged, that’d be great. I personally have said hi to plenty of people.
Lack of grouping tools is a shame. But I can see how it can add to the fact that it’s more “Real” if you want to group with someone who you’ve not met before, you have to go to a place where people meet to group and say hi. I would say that FFXIV encourages people to be social, but on a more face-to-face level than most of games.
Shopping:
There arep plenty of vendors in each of the starting areas which offer you to buy every weapons/tool, but yes, the current shopping system sucks quite badly. Which is a moot point if you’re in a guild who help each other out. Player based shopping does need some work.
Questing and Levelling:
I would love to see a more varied quest-type (and apparently more quests will be implemented) The personal story quest does seem fun and I agree that it would be nice ot have a choice in how the story unfolds, as opposed to being unable to effect it (at least what I’ve seen). I don’t mind grinding/exploring and I swap out classes when I feel like I’m getting burnt out of killing the same 3/4 type of mobs (which apparently are more varied later on). Grinding alone, I can get to level 8 in an hour (not timed it), so I don’t think that combat is that slow.
“Lots of superficial options but in reality there is little versatility.” I strongly disagree, once you have level 8 in a varied amount of war/magic classes, you will notice that there is a vast amount of options as to how to kit out your toon. Sure, at the top top end of the game there may be a certain way of optimising ONE class, but it will be a very very long time before anyone is able to say whats optimum using all skills that are available (IE top rank in all class, using skills from all that’s available)
I have no Idea about fatigue, not experience it, even when playing for a long period of time. I think it will effect the seriously hardcore who only level one skill, which isn’t the way to play if you want to be tough. I don’t think anyone can comment on end-game seeing as OB is capped at 30.
Crafting and Gathering:
Completely agree.
It sucks (for “you”) that I am playing a completely different game to most people. I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the game, I’m loving every second of it and cant wait for release. Maybe I have more patience, I dunno. But most of the deal-breakers people are talking about are just simply mountains instead of molehills. Molehills that people may say shouldn’t be there, but generally are fixed by reading a manual/spending 20 mins on a productive forum (which I’m pretty sure everyone’s done with any MMORPG) in my opinion, obviously.
_____________________
Played:
Aion, All Points Bulletin, ArchLord, Champions Online, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest II, Fallen Earth, Fantasy Earth Zero, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Metin 2, MU Online, RF Online, Ryzom, Silkroad Online, Star Trek Online, Star Wars Galaxies, The Chronicles of Spellborn and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Awaiting: FFXIV and SW:TOR
Jeez, you must throw away ALOT of money man. I'd update your research list a little post-2000 before looking into another MMO.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
Let's start with saying that you dislike FFXIV, almost fully agree with the OP's viewpoint therefore disagree with my comments that cast a shade on the 'objectivity' of the OP, then we can move on from there
Tbh, that 1 post wasn't the only argument why I think he's biased, being convinced that others lack intelligence bc they don't have a problem with the FFXIV's shortcomings that the OP perceived is a roadsign, true. Other signs are his wordings in the OP and comments in other posts of his like where he calls posters who defend the game he doesn't agree with 'fanbois'. Doesn't sound that neutral or nonbiased to me.
Then again, nobody is 100% objective or nonbiased. Truth is, you may not agree with it but there have been other reviewers who shed their lights on the game who didn't share the OP's viewpoint, but were able to post their impressions with a summing up of the good and bad qualities as well, such as these (I didn't even have to search long, these were actually the 1st previews/impressions I encountered in a quick search outside of mmorpg.com):
As I mentioned in the outset, several aspects set Final Fantasy XIV apart from other MMOs. Mechanics, particularly the controls, may act as a hurdle to the mildly interested gamer who tried to pick up the game and jump right into play. The reward for learning a unique system is high for players who want an engaging story from a game that values player skill over time spent online. (TenTonHammer)
Overall i think that this game is going to do quite well. Is it a WOW killer? no. I think some people will play this game until a bigger, better game comes out, but people like myself and so many others will play this game like they did FFXI (spend forever trying to get to a certain goal) however, if SE wants this game to be a hit, they had better fix up some problems or a lot of their playerbase is going to be missing at release. Im going to say a sturdy 8/10 for this one (FFXIV.zam poster)
Don't agree with it? Fine, only believe the OP's impressions, don't play the game, do what you like.
Enough people around that have been playing FFXIV's OB and that have their own opinion and impressions, distinct from the OP and just as valid.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Like this one, for example.
Let me quote the equally valid viewpoint from another player who played the OB and who didn't have a number of the complaints and issues of the OP but managed to enjoy the game (a group of people who according to the OP in his words, must be a 'fanboi' or 'lack intelligence'):
"It sucks (for “you”) that I am playing a completely different game to most people. I’ve never once gotten annoyed with the game, I’m loving every second of it and cant wait for release. Maybe I have more patience, I dunno. But most of the deal-breakers people are talking about are just simply [molehills instead of mountains]. Molehills that people may say shouldn’t be there, but generally are fixed by reading a manual/spending 20 mins on a productive forum (which I’m pretty sure everyone’s done with any MMORPG) in my opinion, obviously.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
How about we start by NOT making things up, shall we? I'm buying the game. In anything that I have interest in or like, I am the FIRST to criticize and publicize my dislikes and criticisms. It is the only way for things to get better. I am not afraid at all of opposing views and I certainly don't feel the need to try to discredit other peoples' opinions.
Sorry, but you can't start an argument with made up assumptions and then use them as facts.
Then I'm the first to apologize for assuming something that you're not
As I've stated in other posts, I fully agree that (constructive) criticism is the only way to make things better. Whether posting it on a forum here instead of the official/specific game's forums achieves that goal remains the question, but healthy criticism and discussion is always good. Calling disagreeing people fanbois or saying they've a lack of intelligence bc they don't share someone's issues with a game to the extent he does, however, is not.
So I stand for what I said before, OP's viewpoint is not the "ultimate truth", it's just one opinion (and negatively biased, nothing wrong with that as long as people realise it) of a game in beta as there are other differing opinions, impressions and reviews of that game as well, some negative, some neutral, some positive. And all valid.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think you have the OP confused with someone else, because never once has he mocked the intelligence of players who don't have a problem with FFXIV in any of his 8 posts on these forums (2 in this thread). There WAS a poster who fallaciously called everyone who "couldn't handle" FF14 unintelligent, as if disliking having to navigate an unnecessarily cumbersome UI somehow correlates to intelligence at all. But that's a seperate thread argument that has since burnt out.
The OP did, however, use the term "fanboys" once in another thread:
"And as you can see from this thread, there are an awful lot of fanboys, people who are so emotionally invested into seeing this game succeed that they write up insults in poorly spelt/worded English in an attempt to defend the game. I know it's really hard to get into the open beta with the key denial, 4 day downloads and system crashes but please, don't buy it before you try it."
Here he defensively pulled the classic internet grammar move, and mildly insulted those who disagreed with him. Overall, a less than admirable portion of his post.
However, there is a legitimate basis for the existence of the popular internet term "fanboy." The word was created for a reason. It implies blind loyalty. It's like being in love and involved in a bad relationship. While in the relationship, you're willing to overlook what appear to be teensy, tiny flaws in the relationship. Perhaps you're so deluded by love that you simply can't even see the problems at all. Love is blind, as they say. Only months after the relationship is over can you objectively look back on your experiences and see the flaws that would have clearly never allowed the relationship to work. So too are there bad relationships between fans and games, where some fans are so blindly in love with a particular game/company/genre, that they are either willing to completely overlook any of its flaws or they simply cannot see them at all. That, to me, is what the term "fanboy" implies. Blind fantaticism is a very real psychological phenomenon.
That certainly does not mean that all fans fall into this category. And that's the problem with tossing the now derogatory term "fanboy" around on forums like these; every fan will become offended by it, thus ending all possibility of serious pro/con discussion about the game. Of course, serious pro/con discussion about the game was never possible with the "blindly loyal fans" to begin with. It's like an atheist trying to communicate with a religious fundamentalist. Using the term "fanboy" simply alienates the rest of the "normal" (for lack of a better word) fans as well, just as an atheist referring to religoius fundamentalists as "bible bashers" would immediately alienate all moderate and even liberal religious readers as well.
---------------------------------------------------
Switching topics, I'm also confused about your definition of "bias." The review process works as follows: you play and experience a game, you grow to either like or dislike a game for reasons a, b, c, d etc., you write your review explaining why you liked or disliked the game using reasons a, b, c, and d. By your definition, if you play a game and do not enjoy it, you're automatically biased against the game and thus become a less credible source on that particular game. It must follow that if you play a game and enjoy it, you are automatically biased toward the game. In your view, are these people also unfit to comment on the game?
Do you believe the OP had an agenda before ever participating in FF14's alpha/beta for the first time to go out of his way to discover all of the game's inadequecies just so he can write one heck of a negative review a week before the game releases? Or do you believe him when he said he was really looking foward to the game, played it somewhat extensively in beta, and was legitimately put off by flaw after flaw, which he outlines in his review.
Personally, I believe the OP because I can sympathize with his situation entirely. I basically mirror that exact experience and found myself agreeing with many of his viewpoints. (In before obligatory "let me just start by saying you're biased toward the OP" comment.) I'm STARVING for a good MMO to come out, as I'm currently not playing one and haven't been since about March. Being a tremendous fan of the FF series, and having played FFXI for about 2 years, I had high hopes for FF14. You could say I was heavily biased toward the game. However, I too played FF14 in all its closed beta phases and a little in the open beta, and because I didn't let my bias for FF games blindly sway me away from objectivity, I allowed myself to see all the flaws that the OP outlined, and I too was tremendously put off by them. I will not be buying the game.
Now look at it from our perspective. We know there are many players who are looking forward to FF14 just like we were, but have not bothered to test it in beta. Only a small minority of players participate in betas. Precisely because we care passionately about the quality of MMOs do we wish to post our critical findings publically, so as to enlighten fans before making their purchase. And the OP doesn't ask anyone to take his word for it. He simply voices his criticism and encourages players to go try it out while the Beta is free before buying it.
Perhaps many patches/updates from now I'll give FFXIV shot. But by then, GW2 should be out and I have extremely high hopes for that game as I agree with virtually every single design philosophy Arenanet has articulated
This is a perfect post in my eyes, in regards to FFXIV. If I were to send a statement to SE on why I cancelled my pre-order I would copy paste this and send it in as my total reason.
I cancelled my pre-order but I will check back in a year or so and see how things are going once it hits consoles. I still think FFXI is a great game so there is hope for FFXIV no matter how slim of a hope it seems.
Controls/Interface: 0/10
MMO Social Experience: 1/10
To me, these are 2 of the most important aspect of a mmorpg. If they failed to it, free or not, count me out. Im a fan of FFX BTW.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
I'd like to see a FFXI vet review FFXIV, I don't give a crap about what some clueless guy who finds UI to be more than a minor nuisance and probably plays WoW thinks.
Reviewing a game still in beta is utterly retarded, fyi.
Damn, that was one heck of a long post
Anyway, about the OP poster (again): among other things he stated as "intelligence(which you would have to lack to be willing to accept the many shortcomings of the game", talking in terms of fanbois, some stuff in his OP as him seeing an 'awful lot of reused content' - which strangely enough hardly anybody seemed to notice before a few days ago - all this draw a picture to me. When I read a review/report I often also check someone's former posts to get a feel of how neutral or objective the reviewer can be, to be able to regard a review in the right context. The OP, to me, is not neutral: he has shown to have a negatively colored outlook towards FFXIV.
Which is nothing wrong with, but it's like having someone who thoroughly dislikes European or Asian movies, or romantic comedies or torture horror, whatever, have to review one such movie: the person can still be thorough and detailed in his review, but it's written in the colored view of someone who dislikes aspects that are inherent to that type of movie.
If you have a similar stance towards European/Aisan movies, or romantic comedies or torture horror movies, then you'll find yourself agreeing a lot with the commentaries in his review.
As Tilyin's commentaries in an earlier post in this thread show, there are several viewpoints possible: to me, I'd rather have the review of someone who can be as thorough and balanced but who likes European movies/romantic comedies/etc than the review of someone who is negatively predisposed towards that kind of movie and who has no love for that genre.
Is that clearer?
edit: in the end it's of course best to read AND well informed positive reviews AND well informed negative reviews and make up your mind then, that's the most balanced way.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I played ffxi for many years, I wish I could give you a review but like you said its in a beta stage, a restricted beta stage at that so yes it would be utterly retarded for me to write a review on an incomplete product. All I can say for sure from what I have seen in OB, there is a solid foundation for SE to work with to give us another epic MMO. Ill write my launch review after I get some quality time (100+ hours) with the real game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
FF tactics for Gameboy is the best ever..... why bother making an MMO, that plays the same?
Uhh... what?
You know the old addage about assumptions right?
Anyhoo, I did play FFXI for over a year and happen to never have been a big fan of WoW(as it played like an everquest clone to me). Had you read the review, you would have known that at least half of your assumption was outright false(that being that I never played FFXI). If you are curious as to what MMO's I have devoted serious time to(your statement implies that you won't take the word of a [WoW fan]), here's the breakdown:
Enjoyed-
FFXI
Everquest 1
Ultima Online
Asheron's Call 1
Dark Age of Camelot
Ryzom
Anarchy Online
Lineage 1
Guild Wars
Eve Online
City of Heroes/Villains
Hated-
AC2
Shadowbane
Tabula Rasa
Matrix Online
Star Trek Online
Dark & Light
Somewhere in between in the world of average-
D&D Online
WoW
Auto Assault
Star Wars Galaxies
WAR
Allods Online
Everquest 2
Aion
Lineage 2
I have played countless others but not to the same extent. Many of them I played in both beta and release(all in release except for Auto Assault which could've been great were it not rushed to market like a certain other game...) and Final Fantasy XIV is so backwards it won't be making it to that level, which is a shame as I'm starved for a new mmo experience. I am probably a good deal older than most of the users of this forum and can remember dialing in to networks to play muds back in the day.
Reviewing a game in Open Beta(especially this close to release) is as far from retarded as you can get, the developers are giving you an opportunity to playtest the game free of charge. $50-$80 is not a small enough chunk of change for me to throw away without finding out what's to like and what's to dislike about a game, be it from reviewers who are willing to vocalize what they like and dislike about a game(and you have to read more than just one) or, if I'm lucky enough, to try it out for myself. All MMOs get better as they go along, I'd discourage you from believing that reviewing an open beta is being unrepresentitive of the final product. If you do then you'll never be satisifed with a review of the final product as the final product is perpetually a day/week/month away as updates and improvements roll in. MMO's never reach "final product" status. If you liked the game enough to buy it then you should, simple as that. However, given my experience with mmo's and what I look for in one, I find the game to be sorely lacking in many, many different aspects.
This is not directed at the OP, it is just a general comment I felt like making.
I personally like this game a good deal and am pleased that I decided to get the CE. Moreover if you can't find people to talk with and be social with I see that more as a problem with you and not the community. You probably have social issues and act like a jerk. No offense to the people who are just socially awkward.
I go up and just start conversations with people who don't look like they are busy and end up having a great conversation with them. The translation tool is really fun once you get the hang of it. And no I didn't start playing this game with a group of friends, I just started by myself and put myself out there.
Moreover grouping up is the easiest thing in the world. Don't feel all put upon like the world needs you or something, because they don't. People might not be knocking down your door or blowing up your tells but it doesn't mean you can't suck it up and send some tells yourself. I always just ask people who are around me if they would like to party up and I think I've only been told no once. ONCE since OB started.
People will be more than happy to have you even if you are an annoying idiot who knows nothing about the game or gaming in general. However I will be EXTREMELY happy when most of these random people leave and I will stop seeing trolls call people homophobic derogatory terms. I've only seen this a couple of times but it does speak volumes of the maturity level of MMO players in general. So I don't take their complaints seriously.
My experience with OB through the community alone would be around an 8 depending on the server.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
My bad, the FF fanboy in me came out in that post. I skipped some of your review thinking you wanted another WoW from the game but based on your taste I actually respect/believe your opinions now. I still think it's stupid and unfair to review a game in beta though, regardless how close to launch it is. Betas are for technical testing purposes, not playtesting a game to see if you like it or not. SE already said performance will be better at launch. Also, you could've mentioned more important things like comparisons to FFXI instead of petty stuff like UI.
Honestly, if some of the stuff you said is true then that'd really suck(like no good group finding tool), but we can't know anything for sure until launch.
It can only get better, right?
I've played em all, and tested all the rest. I'm not gonna sit here and brag about my system or what games I've played. But I will say honestly there are a hundred things I could say that are great about this game. And a few bad things. But here is a breakdown of my top 10 mmo's, as well as my overall average score from 1-10.
1. EQII - It is still the best overall MMORPG.
2. Star Wars Galaxies - the launch was horrible, making it to Jedi from beta in 8 months was awesome. then some puke noob got to do the same thing just by buying the game 2 years later. The game was awesome. The community f-d it up.
3. FFXIV - This game has the potential to be the best of all time. It's not PC friendly until you hook up a gamepad and set up your macros, but after that, in my opinion everything is there. A learning curve, player economy, robust crafting, a class/action system that makes every person a true individual. I have currently tried out every class.....on one character....what other game allows you to do that?? They are pushing the threashold of RPG. Could we finally have an MMORPG that is ACTUALLY an RPG? Or do we have another, "hey look there goes another one of those zombie lookin things, oh and another that was identical, and another......
4. EQ - it was the orginal that every other was based on. I know about all the others that were released before this one, but they all sucked.
5. Vanguard - Awesome game. Not enough people with badass enough computers to play it. So no one did. It was good.
6. Aion - A newer release that I think belongs here because of the depth of the combat system.
7. WAR- wow clone...only WAY BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop playing that other piece of crap.
8. City of Heroes - Awesome concept, not the greatest execution on world believeablility but the character creation is probably the best of most mmos.
9. Guild Wars - If I want a quick game with a little fun in there. But I really don't like guild wars that much. I think the concept is innovative and belongs on my list. But I mostly put it here so that wow wouldn't fit on my list.
10. ALL OTHER MMO's EXCEPT WOW. ( Okay fan boys and flamers go ahead....because that game attempted to copy what had already been done before...then they kindergardenized it so that Zombies and Heros could play it, in otherwords children and braincell deprived individuals so that they could have a large fanbase. Come on lets be honest, it isn't the Tier whatever armor that makes you happy it's that every time you play that game you know that you are probably smarter than 99% of the server, and it makes you feel smart. Go buy a real mmoRPG. Which is any of them whose character creation has more than 6 options.
So....in my book....FFXIV is right up there with the greats. As long as the community doesn't screw it up.
Yay!