TOR doesn't have a specific trinity build. Some classes have healing abilities, if you choose to spec that way I'm sure you can, but there is no healer "class". Yes the consular is a support class, and yes you can focus on support abilities such as healing, but as they've said with the consular you can play a rogue, a damage dealer or a support character, thats three very different builds for a single character that most people have labeled a "healer class". In fact, when they go over the roles of the consular, you'll notice they never mention that the consular is a "healer".
Yes, it is a "hybrid" just like a Shaman. You start as a hybrid, but as time goes on you have to become a DPS (ranged or melee) or a healer. If you try to maintain you hybrid nature, you'll suck at everything. Talent tree divisions support this as does how they've divided stats (separate stats for force damage, healing, and melee damage). They have no support mechanisms for hybrids in play such as dual targeting or the like. So yeah, it is a specific BUILD of the Consular that's a healer (and they constantly call that build a healer). It is a Trinity Game, like WoW.
As far as mission types, TOR does have quests where you do one thing and its gone forever, and most of that lies in your personal story. World quests that change the world in TOR will be repeatable, but of course you want them to be. From what I've gathered most of the world changing quests will be a mix of faction based control scenarios, possibly with both NPC and player factions. On the other hand, everything in GW2 that changes the world is also replayable, and it is also cyclical. GW2 also has personal story options where you most likely won't get to repeat any choices you can make, although I seriously doubt the depth in those choices will be anywhere near what TOR is doing. Already we've seen quest chains where you can decline doing quests, avert the quest objective, or talk your way out of situations, and all these before even leaving the origin worlds.
Those things that are gone forever are in instanced areas and part of the story-based decisions. They don't affect the world as a whole. Again, there are nice story elements here and there in the game. That's great stuff and I applaud them for it. However, GW2 quite frankly has far more things that actually impact the world that other people can see, which is not the case with TOR (nothing you can do makes a change other players can see that aren't part of your group). Even "world quests" won't have changes outside of flash points which you only share with those in your groups. If there's more than that, then it would have to be pretty boring (you control point X or not), which IS something that exists in WoW.
Again, I fully acknowledge that TOR is innovative with story. I'm just saying that's really the only thing innovative about it. Trying to convince me that TOR is innovative with story is rather a silly argument to make. Rather like me trying to convince you that the sky is blue or the Earth is round. Remember, I am saying TOR is WoW + Story (in spaaaaaace).
Both games will have things that make them great and things that people dislike. Though the systems are very close on paper, in many aspects, the execution will differ and that is something people won't really understand until the games release, it seems.
The systems aren't very close. The main thing they have in common is story mattering. That's it, really.
except one thing if that nest never came back i would be all over GW2 but the fact that it will come back and the same DE will take place in the exact same area.
If you come back the Nest probably won't be there. A zone is FULL of dynamic events. Defeat the nest in GW2 and then that chains into another event where you might go and fight the bugs elsewhere (wherever they most recently came from) or a horde of bad guys might move into the area instead. Dealing with that NEXT thing will lead to another, etc, etc. In this there are other chains of dynamic events all around you and going on. None of them "reset" like something in WoW might. Events can push an event back from one end to another if players let the raging enemy barbarians win battle after battle, but that happens one step at a time.
All of this dynamically scales with the number of players ACTIVELY involved in a particular event.
I don't buy it that the combat is full trinity, with no hybrid options for classes, it contradicts what I've read before.
The Companions alone would make it less than full trinity, and I'm pretty sure I read about versatility of advanced classes in team combat, switching from healing to cc to dps.
Granted, that was information I checked a few weeks ago, so I'm going to read up on that compilation post in the SWTOR forum to see if anything new has been said about it.
It IS a full Trinity. Look back, and they've never said anything different. Look at how they talk about group combat. Time and time and time again they talk about tanks, healers, DPS. They don't mention hybrids. They don't talk about how they designed the game to make hybrids work (and it does require some real work in the mechanics and system to not have someone specced as a hybrid to not suck).
Companions just mean if you are lacking something like DPS or a healer, then you can get 4 or 5 companions to replace that one guy. That's all. They've even said that 4 healer companions (standard group size) isn't as good as one player healer (e.g. for groups you are better off going with 1 healer, 1 tank, and 2 dps for challenging content).
Go back and read again. They've never talked about how you are really versatile in team combat. There was a little of that in the combat demo, but they never talked about it. Remember, that demo is at level 10, when even WoW supports hybrid play. The best you'll be able to find are some extremely vague comments and talk about how companions alone make it a "soft" trinity. I looked this stuff over. If they were really enabling hybrids then there'd have to be a lot of specific mechanics to make them work. Instead we get talk about how WoW-style healers are in the game ("don't worry healers!" they say).
There's a ton of stuff supporting a hard trinity for classes. The stat system, the focus of talent trees, how they have divided the AC's, how they talk about ACs and combat roles, how they talk during the group combat demo, how often they talk about how WoW set the standard for how such things should work, etc.
Hate to break it from you but if you dont' think people in GW2 are nto gonna be saying looking for water elementalist to be a healer you are fooling yourself. What i got from the 50 minute video was yeah the water elmentalist was attacking but Every attack healed the others. So they look like a dedicated healer class to me.
Look up the game more. Everyone has a skill to heal themselves. They have control abiltiies (realistic) vs. tanks (not realistic). They do have healing and you theoretically COULD specialize in it, though you'd still some potent offensive abilities (required), and it probably wouldn't be the best build. Heck, even your example is NOT a Trinity healer as they are doing damage.
TOR doesn't have a specific trinity build. Some classes have healing abilities, if you choose to spec that way I'm sure you can, but there is no healer "class". Yes the consular is a support class, and yes you can focus on support abilities such as healing, but as they've said with the consular you can play a rogue, a damage dealer or a support character, thats three very different builds for a single character that most people have labeled a "healer class". In fact, when they go over the roles of the consular, you'll notice they never mention that the consular is a "healer".
Yes, it is a "hybrid" just like a Shaman. You start as a hybrid, but as time goes on you have to become a DPS (ranged or melee) or a healer. If you try to maintain you hybrid nature, you'll suck at everything. Talent tree divisions support this as does how they've divided stats (separate stats for force damage, healing, and melee damage). They have no support mechanisms for hybrids in play such as dual targeting or the like. So yeah, it is a specific BUILD of the Consular that's a healer (and they constantly call that build a healer). It is a Trinity Game, like WoW.
As far as mission types, TOR does have quests where you do one thing and its gone forever, and most of that lies in your personal story. World quests that change the world in TOR will be repeatable, but of course you want them to be. From what I've gathered most of the world changing quests will be a mix of faction based control scenarios, possibly with both NPC and player factions. On the other hand, everything in GW2 that changes the world is also replayable, and it is also cyclical. GW2 also has personal story options where you most likely won't get to repeat any choices you can make, although I seriously doubt the depth in those choices will be anywhere near what TOR is doing. Already we've seen quest chains where you can decline doing quests, avert the quest objective, or talk your way out of situations, and all these before even leaving the origin worlds.
Those things that are gone forever are in instanced areas and part of the story-based decisions. They don't affect the world as a whole. Again, there are nice story elements here and there in the game. That's great stuff and I applaud them for it. However, GW2 quite frankly has far more things that actually impact the world that other people can see, which is not the case with TOR (nothing you can do makes a change other players can see that aren't part of your group). Even "world quests" won't have changes outside of flash points which you only share with those in your groups. If there's more than that, then it would have to be pretty boring (you control point X or not), which IS something that exists in WoW.
Again, I fully acknowledge that TOR is innovative with story. I'm just saying that's really the only thing innovative about it. Trying to convince me that TOR is innovative with story is rather a silly argument to make. Rather like me trying to convince you that the sky is blue or the Earth is round. Remember, I am saying TOR is WoW + Story (in spaaaaaace).
Both games will have things that make them great and things that people dislike. Though the systems are very close on paper, in many aspects, the execution will differ and that is something people won't really understand until the games release, it seems.
The systems aren't very close. The main thing they have in common is story mattering. That's it, really.
First, thanks for fixing it so I didn't have to, everything was red. Secondly, there is no healer build in TOR, there are only support abilities that heal. That means on top of whatever you have for your healer, you have crowd control, force powers, and other such things, whether you only use the healing abilities or not is up to you. Go back and watch the Gamescom and PAX interviews, they tell you that the consular that was healing is NOT a healer class, and that it was only using healing abilities because the character was the camera. Go back and actually watch the consular gameplay and look at the abilities used :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gkfdUerpw Notice anything interesting? Look how many abilities are on the bar, and how many abilities they are using that actually heal. Look at the other abilities the consular uses in that video that do attack damage or something else. Notice also how 70% of the time, the consular is just standing there moving the camera around.
The consular will play exactly how you play it. If you want to run around and spam two maybe three abilities, I guess you can do that if you want, but you aren't playing your class very well. There is no trinity or necessity for one as the developers have said all along, but they will have the ability to heal. If you think that makes this a WoW trinity game, then I think you're being really shortsighted on your opinion, but you are definitely allowed to think whatever you want.
As far as world quests, YES world quests will change the world outside of flashpoints. Your information is incorrect sir. This was stated a few times, and was originally mentioned with the overview of Taris. GW2 quests will change the world, temporarily, but so far these quests won't change things permanently. The quests again are cyclical, so you are wrong in your assumption that you kill a herd of cows for the farmer and then those cows are gone forever. You'll see those cows again when the cycle is ready.
The systems are very similar, there are many similarities, just people who want to dislike TOR and like GW2 choose not to see them or try to refute one or the other. Thats cool I guess, I don't see why it hurts so much to allow both games to do exactly what they are both saying they will do instead of trying to prove one didn't say something they very much so said, but it must be a killer because so many people are trying really hard to prove otherwise.
I don't see why everyone is freaking out about the trinity system being in SWTOR. I don't believe there have been a lot of successful MMO's that haven't used it. It just works. It basically calls for teamwork.
I don't see why everyone is freaking out about the trinity system being in SWTOR. I don't believe there have been a lot of successful MMO's that haven't used it. It just works. It basically calls for teamwork.
The only reason it matters to me is because there is no specific trinity, and good or bad, I don't like when people misconstrue information. Yes healing will be a big part of TOR, 4 of the 16 advanced classes have healing abilities. That means there are plenty of chances for people to be able to heal, but there is no DEDICATED healing class, they've said that many times. You *CAN* spec healing abilities, and you can spec your companion to heal as well, they do this so a healer isn't required. Players can compensate by healing themselves, having companions heal them, or having another player heal them, but usually the trinity requires that one class is the dominant healer, which TOR will not have in that context. (based on the current information out)
Guild Wars 2 is by far the better looking game. The world Arenanet has created looks beautiful and detailed, and easily a place you could lose yourself in and lose track of time. Combat looks like a blast, and the animations are incredibly fluid, and it all, again, looks beautiful. It's going to have a rich, branching personal story with moral dilemmas and permanent consequences. The other systems, by the look of them, look refreshing for an MMO as well. For example, the gear progression system, while nothing has been officially confirmed, looks like the majority of stat bonuses come from "crests" (similar to runes in the first game), which can be moved around, and it doesn't force a player to wear a particular piece of armor to have the best stats or whatever, like in WoW. This greatly lends itself to character customization, not to mention the INCREDIBLE dye system that's being put in place to further customize the appearance of your armor. One thing I hated about WoW was how everyone looks the same at endgame. Everyone of a particular class looks the same.
SWTOR looks like it will have a nice story that branches, and all that, but it's got nothing else that appeals to me. It's got WoW style combat, that doesn't even look as good as WoW's does, and definitely not as interesting as GW2. Environments seem static and bland. Clearly, the game isn't out yet, but as it currently looks, it just seems boring to me.
First, thanks for fixing it so I didn't have to, everything was red. Secondly, there is no healer build in TOR, there are only support abilities that heal. That means on top of whatever you have for your healer, you have crowd control, force powers, and other such things, whether you only use the healing abilities or not is up to you. Go back and watch the Gamescom and PAX interviews, they tell you that the consular that was healing is NOT a healer class, and that it was only using healing abilities because the character was the camera. Go back and actually watch the consular gameplay and look at the abilities used :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gkfdUerpw Notice anything interesting? Look how many abilities are on the bar, and how many abilities they are using that actually heal. Look at the other abilities the consular uses in that video that do attack damage or something else. Notice also how 70% of the time, the consular is just standing there moving the camera around.
That Consular was level 10. How many healing abilities does a Shaman in WoW have at level 10?
I'll respond to your other post with a video where the devs explicitly talk about healers....
Oh wait, you have a video right there where they explicitly talk about damage dealers, tanks, and healers!
Do you need me to bring up the one where they explicitly say a Consular can be a normal MMO healer? Maybe you don't remember were they went over that. It was maybe 6 months ago or more.
Do you need me to bring up the videos where they talk about how a Jedi Knight can go tanking or dps? That's a bit more recent.
Do you need to be reminded of the recent Light Side video where they talking about Healing-specced Consulars?
Do I need to get the interview where they said that if you don't go into an instance with a palyer healer, then IF all of your companions are made into healers you probably will be ok (and that a player healer is a better choice)?
This game totally has the Trinity in it. I'm really upset about it. I hate the Trinity. Thems the breaks though.
I don't see why everyone is freaking out about the trinity system being in SWTOR. I don't believe there have been a lot of successful MMO's that haven't used it. It just works. It basically calls for teamwork.
It's stale. It's old. It requires gimmicks in every group encounter to be at all interesting (often leading to heavily choreographed encounters). It is unrealistic. It isn't iconic for Star Wars. It initially was just a hack because they couldn't do collision detection easily. I could go on...
except one thing if that nest never came back i would be all over GW2 but the fact that it will come back and the same DE will take place in the exact same area.
If you come back the Nest probably won't be there. A zone is FULL of dynamic events. Defeat the nest in GW2 and then that chains into another event where you might go and fight the bugs elsewhere (wherever they most recently came from) or a horde of bad guys might move into the area instead. Dealing with that NEXT thing will lead to another, etc, etc. In this there are other chains of dynamic events all around you and going on. None of them "reset" like something in WoW might. Events can push an event back from one end to another if players let the raging enemy barbarians win battle after battle, but that happens one step at a time.
All of this dynamically scales with the number of players ACTIVELY involved in a particular event.
I will believe that when i can play it and see it working like that till then i don't believe it will be that dynamic. And yes that same hive will come right back to the same place.They might have a few chain of events but eventually the entire DE resets. So if you think the DE's will never reset i'm sorry to say you will be dissapointed in this game.
As much as I love Star Wars and think SWTOR will be cool...I had to go with Guild Wars 2.
Why? The Buy-To-Play payment model. I honestly think all MMORPG games should be F2P or B2P. I know it's not the popular opinion, but I like having the flexibility and control of when I pay for a game.
I think GW 2 will beat out SW:ToR just because the new starwars in linear and a quest grind and GW 2 is more balanced with good action and queating.
SWTOR to me looks like it has good action and questing also so because you don't like the way something is don't mean it is going to be better or worse than another.
I have no idea which game will do better I have not played either of them and even if i had I only know my opinion of the game I hate all FPS's but that don't mean they all suck cause pleanty of people like em.
I will believe that when i can play it and see it working like that till then i don't believe it will be that dynamic. And yes that same hive will come right back to the same place.They might have a few chain of events but eventually the entire DE resets. So if you think the DE's will never reset i'm sorry to say you will be dissapointed in this game.
They've explicitly said it doesn't reset many, many times. That's one of the the big things they are pushing.
First, thanks for fixing it so I didn't have to, everything was red. Secondly, there is no healer build in TOR, there are only support abilities that heal. That means on top of whatever you have for your healer, you have crowd control, force powers, and other such things, whether you only use the healing abilities or not is up to you. Go back and watch the Gamescom and PAX interviews, they tell you that the consular that was healing is NOT a healer class, and that it was only using healing abilities because the character was the camera. Go back and actually watch the consular gameplay and look at the abilities used :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gkfdUerpw Notice anything interesting? Look how many abilities are on the bar, and how many abilities they are using that actually heal. Look at the other abilities the consular uses in that video that do attack damage or something else. Notice also how 70% of the time, the consular is just standing there moving the camera around.
That Consular was level 10. How many healing abilities does a Shaman in WoW have at level 10?
I'll respond to your other post with a video where the devs explicitly talk about healers....
Oh wait, you have a video right there where they explicitly talk about damage dealers, tanks, and healers!
Do you need me to bring up the one where they explicitly say a Consular can be a normal MMO healer? Maybe you don't remember were they went over that. It was maybe 6 months ago or more.
Do you need me to bring up the videos where they talk about how a Jedi Knight can go tanking or dps? That's a bit more recent.
Do you need to be reminded of the recent Light Side video where they talking about Healing-specced Consulars?
Do I need to get the interview where they said that if you don't go into an instance with a palyer healer, then IF all of your companions are made into healers you probably will be ok (and that a player healer is a better choice)?
This game totally has the Trinity in it. I'm really upset about it. I hate the Trinity. Thems the breaks though.
I don't see how all dps can be better than the trinity I don't ever play dps classes so you point is your opinion only don't try to change peoples minds. If you don't like it good don't play if someone else does let them enjoy there gaame.
I will believe that when i can play it and see it working like that till then i don't believe it will be that dynamic. And yes that same hive will come right back to the same place.They might have a few chain of events but eventually the entire DE resets. So if you think the DE's will never reset i'm sorry to say you will be dissapointed in this game.
They've explicitly said it doesn't reset many, many times. That's one of the the big things they are pushing.
And swtor has pushed many many times that they have all the features of an mmo but nobody believes bioware why should i believe Anet. They have also stated you didn't have to play the story many many times but people dont' believe that either. I didn't like GW1 i did like all bioware games so the only thing i have to go on is past experience of the two devs games and right now Bioware wins to me. Don't mean i won't like GW2 better when they release that may happen but right now i can only go on what i know.
I don't see why everyone is freaking out about the trinity system being in SWTOR. I don't believe there have been a lot of successful MMO's that haven't used it. It just works. It basically calls for teamwork.
It's stale. It's old. It requires gimmicks in every group encounter to be at all interesting (often leading to heavily choreographed encounters). It is unrealistic. It isn't iconic for Star Wars. It initially was just a hack because they couldn't do collision detection easily. I could go on...
I really really really hope you're not playing any FPS, RTS, and just about any other game genre out there. Because your argument is false.
First, thanks for fixing it so I didn't have to, everything was red. Secondly, there is no healer build in TOR, there are only support abilities that heal. That means on top of whatever you have for your healer, you have crowd control, force powers, and other such things, whether you only use the healing abilities or not is up to you. Go back and watch the Gamescom and PAX interviews, they tell you that the consular that was healing is NOT a healer class, and that it was only using healing abilities because the character was the camera. Go back and actually watch the consular gameplay and look at the abilities used :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gkfdUerpw Notice anything interesting? Look how many abilities are on the bar, and how many abilities they are using that actually heal. Look at the other abilities the consular uses in that video that do attack damage or something else. Notice also how 70% of the time, the consular is just standing there moving the camera around.
That Consular was level 10. How many healing abilities does a Shaman in WoW have at level 10?
I'll respond to your other post with a video where the devs explicitly talk about healers....
Oh wait, you have a video right there where they explicitly talk about damage dealers, tanks, and healers!
Do you need me to bring up the one where they explicitly say a Consular can be a normal MMO healer? Maybe you don't remember were they went over that. It was maybe 6 months ago or more.
Do you need me to bring up the videos where they talk about how a Jedi Knight can go tanking or dps? That's a bit more recent.
Do you need to be reminded of the recent Light Side video where they talking about Healing-specced Consulars?
Do I need to get the interview where they said that if you don't go into an instance with a palyer healer, then IF all of your companions are made into healers you probably will be ok (and that a player healer is a better choice)?
This game totally has the Trinity in it. I'm really upset about it. I hate the Trinity. Thems the breaks though.
Then I guess the only thing you can do is wait like everyone else to find out what the classes turn out like. Do you want me to post quote after quote from various developers that say there is no dedicated healer class? What so 4 advanced classes get 3 or 4 healing abilities? Maybe more? That makes this game based around the trinity? So that would mean that if guild wars has 3 or 4 abilities that heal for a particular class, they ALSO use the trinity,. right? Guess so.
Do you also want me to show you in most of those very same videos that they say healers are not necessary? Kinda debunks the whole "trinity" part of it when you don't need specific classes of the trinity to do the content.
I don't see why everyone is freaking out about the trinity system being in SWTOR. I don't believe there have been a lot of successful MMO's that haven't used it. It just works. It basically calls for teamwork.
It's stale. It's old. It requires gimmicks in every group encounter to be at all interesting (often leading to heavily choreographed encounters). It is unrealistic. It isn't iconic for Star Wars. It initially was just a hack because they couldn't do collision detection easily. I could go on...
I really really really hope you're not playing any FPS, RTS, and just about any other game genre out there. Because your argument is false.
Err, no FPS, RTS, and only one non-MMO RPG (Dragon Age) uses Holy Trinity combat.
Are you going to tell me real life is Holy Trinity now too? LOL.
First, thanks for fixing it so I didn't have to, everything was red. Secondly, there is no healer build in TOR, there are only support abilities that heal. That means on top of whatever you have for your healer, you have crowd control, force powers, and other such things, whether you only use the healing abilities or not is up to you. Go back and watch the Gamescom and PAX interviews, they tell you that the consular that was healing is NOT a healer class, and that it was only using healing abilities because the character was the camera. Go back and actually watch the consular gameplay and look at the abilities used :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gkfdUerpw Notice anything interesting? Look how many abilities are on the bar, and how many abilities they are using that actually heal. Look at the other abilities the consular uses in that video that do attack damage or something else. Notice also how 70% of the time, the consular is just standing there moving the camera around.
That Consular was level 10. How many healing abilities does a Shaman in WoW have at level 10?
I'll respond to your other post with a video where the devs explicitly talk about healers....
Oh wait, you have a video right there where they explicitly talk about damage dealers, tanks, and healers!
Do you need me to bring up the one where they explicitly say a Consular can be a normal MMO healer? Maybe you don't remember were they went over that. It was maybe 6 months ago or more.
Do you need me to bring up the videos where they talk about how a Jedi Knight can go tanking or dps? That's a bit more recent.
Do you need to be reminded of the recent Light Side video where they talking about Healing-specced Consulars?
Do I need to get the interview where they said that if you don't go into an instance with a palyer healer, then IF all of your companions are made into healers you probably will be ok (and that a player healer is a better choice)?
This game totally has the Trinity in it. I'm really upset about it. I hate the Trinity. Thems the breaks though.
Then I guess the only thing you can do is wait like everyone else to find out what the classes turn out like. Do you want me to post quote after quote from various developers that say there is no dedicated healer class? What so 4 advanced classes get 3 or 4 healing abilities? Maybe more? That makes this game based around the trinity? So that would mean that if guild wars has 3 or 4 abilities that heal for a particular class, they ALSO use the trinity,. right? Guess so.
Do you also want me to show you in most of those very same videos that they say healers are not necessary? Kinda debunks the whole "trinity" part of it when you don't need specific classes of the trinity to do the content.
While i am more for SWtor than GW2 you are fooling yoruself if you don't think this game is based on trinity. Everything they say points to it being a trinity game. To me that is a good thing for swtor and a bad thing for GW2 for others it is the opposite way. I like trinity becasue i have not seen another mechanic work in a mmo. So until one succedes I will stick to trinity over no trinity.
I'm currently planning on playing both of these titles, for very different reasons. My hype is equal for both of them. Which will be the most successful? probably SW:ToR
Then I guess the only thing you can do is wait like everyone else to find out what the classes turn out like. Do you want me to post quote after quote from various developers that say there is no dedicated healer class? What so 4 advanced classes get 3 or 4 healing abilities? Maybe more? That makes this game based around the trinity? So that would mean that if guild wars has 3 or 4 abilities that heal for a particular class, they ALSO use the trinity,. right? Guess so.
Do you also want me to show you in most of those very same videos that they say healers are not necessary? Kinda debunks the whole "trinity" part of it when you don't need specific classes of the trinity to do the content.
"No dedicated healer class" is not the same as "no dedicated healer spec." The former doesn't exist, the latter does. WoW doesn't have a dedicated healer class either (Priests are closest, but they have a DPS spec).
Seriously, every time they talk about group combat it is always covered with trinity mechanics. Same when they talk about how you spec your character.
Find me one instance this year where they've said healers aren't necessary. And if that's part of a quote where they've said that "you can have companions instead of a player healer" then that's NOT saying healers are unnecessary. Once they've actually started talking about group mechanics, they've stuck solidly to Trinity terminology. The old stuff was always full of "maybes" and "possibly" and "might" with a few "with difficulty"'s thrown in.
On the other hand they've never talked about hybrid specs or how'd they work. They only talk about Trinity specs. Force Wizards can spec to heal or range DPS. Shadows are melee DPS. Jedi Knights can become melee DPS or tanks. That's all they talk about with speccing. They don't say "here's a Consular who's specced as a healer/dps hybrid and here's how that works". They've never even said that's POSSIBLE to do AND BE VIABLE.
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This thread is still alive?
I thought it died some time ago xP
"It has potential"
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"It sucks"
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Guild Wars 2 FTW, it has event system, superior dye system, and the customization is EPIC!
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If you come back the Nest probably won't be there. A zone is FULL of dynamic events. Defeat the nest in GW2 and then that chains into another event where you might go and fight the bugs elsewhere (wherever they most recently came from) or a horde of bad guys might move into the area instead. Dealing with that NEXT thing will lead to another, etc, etc. In this there are other chains of dynamic events all around you and going on. None of them "reset" like something in WoW might. Events can push an event back from one end to another if players let the raging enemy barbarians win battle after battle, but that happens one step at a time.
All of this dynamically scales with the number of players ACTIVELY involved in a particular event.
It IS a full Trinity. Look back, and they've never said anything different. Look at how they talk about group combat. Time and time and time again they talk about tanks, healers, DPS. They don't mention hybrids. They don't talk about how they designed the game to make hybrids work (and it does require some real work in the mechanics and system to not have someone specced as a hybrid to not suck).
Companions just mean if you are lacking something like DPS or a healer, then you can get 4 or 5 companions to replace that one guy. That's all. They've even said that 4 healer companions (standard group size) isn't as good as one player healer (e.g. for groups you are better off going with 1 healer, 1 tank, and 2 dps for challenging content).
Go back and read again. They've never talked about how you are really versatile in team combat. There was a little of that in the combat demo, but they never talked about it. Remember, that demo is at level 10, when even WoW supports hybrid play. The best you'll be able to find are some extremely vague comments and talk about how companions alone make it a "soft" trinity. I looked this stuff over. If they were really enabling hybrids then there'd have to be a lot of specific mechanics to make them work. Instead we get talk about how WoW-style healers are in the game ("don't worry healers!" they say).
There's a ton of stuff supporting a hard trinity for classes. The stat system, the focus of talent trees, how they have divided the AC's, how they talk about ACs and combat roles, how they talk during the group combat demo, how often they talk about how WoW set the standard for how such things should work, etc.
Look up the game more. Everyone has a skill to heal themselves. They have control abiltiies (realistic) vs. tanks (not realistic). They do have healing and you theoretically COULD specialize in it, though you'd still some potent offensive abilities (required), and it probably wouldn't be the best build. Heck, even your example is NOT a Trinity healer as they are doing damage.
First, thanks for fixing it so I didn't have to, everything was red. Secondly, there is no healer build in TOR, there are only support abilities that heal. That means on top of whatever you have for your healer, you have crowd control, force powers, and other such things, whether you only use the healing abilities or not is up to you. Go back and watch the Gamescom and PAX interviews, they tell you that the consular that was healing is NOT a healer class, and that it was only using healing abilities because the character was the camera. Go back and actually watch the consular gameplay and look at the abilities used :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8gkfdUerpw Notice anything interesting? Look how many abilities are on the bar, and how many abilities they are using that actually heal. Look at the other abilities the consular uses in that video that do attack damage or something else. Notice also how 70% of the time, the consular is just standing there moving the camera around.
The consular will play exactly how you play it. If you want to run around and spam two maybe three abilities, I guess you can do that if you want, but you aren't playing your class very well. There is no trinity or necessity for one as the developers have said all along, but they will have the ability to heal. If you think that makes this a WoW trinity game, then I think you're being really shortsighted on your opinion, but you are definitely allowed to think whatever you want.
As far as world quests, YES world quests will change the world outside of flashpoints. Your information is incorrect sir. This was stated a few times, and was originally mentioned with the overview of Taris. GW2 quests will change the world, temporarily, but so far these quests won't change things permanently. The quests again are cyclical, so you are wrong in your assumption that you kill a herd of cows for the farmer and then those cows are gone forever. You'll see those cows again when the cycle is ready.
The systems are very similar, there are many similarities, just people who want to dislike TOR and like GW2 choose not to see them or try to refute one or the other. Thats cool I guess, I don't see why it hurts so much to allow both games to do exactly what they are both saying they will do instead of trying to prove one didn't say something they very much so said, but it must be a killer because so many people are trying really hard to prove otherwise.
I don't see why everyone is freaking out about the trinity system being in SWTOR. I don't believe there have been a lot of successful MMO's that haven't used it. It just works. It basically calls for teamwork.
I think GW 2 will beat out SW:ToR just because the new starwars in linear and a quest grind and GW 2 is more balanced with good action and queating.
The only reason it matters to me is because there is no specific trinity, and good or bad, I don't like when people misconstrue information. Yes healing will be a big part of TOR, 4 of the 16 advanced classes have healing abilities. That means there are plenty of chances for people to be able to heal, but there is no DEDICATED healing class, they've said that many times. You *CAN* spec healing abilities, and you can spec your companion to heal as well, they do this so a healer isn't required. Players can compensate by healing themselves, having companions heal them, or having another player heal them, but usually the trinity requires that one class is the dominant healer, which TOR will not have in that context. (based on the current information out)
Guild Wars 2 is by far the better looking game. The world Arenanet has created looks beautiful and detailed, and easily a place you could lose yourself in and lose track of time. Combat looks like a blast, and the animations are incredibly fluid, and it all, again, looks beautiful. It's going to have a rich, branching personal story with moral dilemmas and permanent consequences. The other systems, by the look of them, look refreshing for an MMO as well. For example, the gear progression system, while nothing has been officially confirmed, looks like the majority of stat bonuses come from "crests" (similar to runes in the first game), which can be moved around, and it doesn't force a player to wear a particular piece of armor to have the best stats or whatever, like in WoW. This greatly lends itself to character customization, not to mention the INCREDIBLE dye system that's being put in place to further customize the appearance of your armor. One thing I hated about WoW was how everyone looks the same at endgame. Everyone of a particular class looks the same.
SWTOR looks like it will have a nice story that branches, and all that, but it's got nothing else that appeals to me. It's got WoW style combat, that doesn't even look as good as WoW's does, and definitely not as interesting as GW2. Environments seem static and bland. Clearly, the game isn't out yet, but as it currently looks, it just seems boring to me.
That Consular was level 10. How many healing abilities does a Shaman in WoW have at level 10?
I'll respond to your other post with a video where the devs explicitly talk about healers....
Oh wait, you have a video right there where they explicitly talk about damage dealers, tanks, and healers!
Do you need me to bring up the one where they explicitly say a Consular can be a normal MMO healer? Maybe you don't remember were they went over that. It was maybe 6 months ago or more.
Do you need me to bring up the videos where they talk about how a Jedi Knight can go tanking or dps? That's a bit more recent.
Do you need to be reminded of the recent Light Side video where they talking about Healing-specced Consulars?
Do I need to get the interview where they said that if you don't go into an instance with a palyer healer, then IF all of your companions are made into healers you probably will be ok (and that a player healer is a better choice)?
This game totally has the Trinity in it. I'm really upset about it. I hate the Trinity. Thems the breaks though.
It's stale. It's old. It requires gimmicks in every group encounter to be at all interesting (often leading to heavily choreographed encounters). It is unrealistic. It isn't iconic for Star Wars. It initially was just a hack because they couldn't do collision detection easily. I could go on...
I will believe that when i can play it and see it working like that till then i don't believe it will be that dynamic. And yes that same hive will come right back to the same place.They might have a few chain of events but eventually the entire DE resets. So if you think the DE's will never reset i'm sorry to say you will be dissapointed in this game.
As much as I love Star Wars and think SWTOR will be cool...I had to go with Guild Wars 2.
Why? The Buy-To-Play payment model. I honestly think all MMORPG games should be F2P or B2P. I know it's not the popular opinion, but I like having the flexibility and control of when I pay for a game.
SWTOR to me looks like it has good action and questing also so because you don't like the way something is don't mean it is going to be better or worse than another.
I have no idea which game will do better I have not played either of them and even if i had I only know my opinion of the game I hate all FPS's but that don't mean they all suck cause pleanty of people like em.
They've explicitly said it doesn't reset many, many times. That's one of the the big things they are pushing.
I don't see how all dps can be better than the trinity I don't ever play dps classes so you point is your opinion only don't try to change peoples minds. If you don't like it good don't play if someone else does let them enjoy there gaame.
And swtor has pushed many many times that they have all the features of an mmo but nobody believes bioware why should i believe Anet. They have also stated you didn't have to play the story many many times but people dont' believe that either. I didn't like GW1 i did like all bioware games so the only thing i have to go on is past experience of the two devs games and right now Bioware wins to me. Don't mean i won't like GW2 better when they release that may happen but right now i can only go on what i know.
I really really really hope you're not playing any FPS, RTS, and just about any other game genre out there. Because your argument is false.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Then I guess the only thing you can do is wait like everyone else to find out what the classes turn out like. Do you want me to post quote after quote from various developers that say there is no dedicated healer class? What so 4 advanced classes get 3 or 4 healing abilities? Maybe more? That makes this game based around the trinity? So that would mean that if guild wars has 3 or 4 abilities that heal for a particular class, they ALSO use the trinity,. right? Guess so.
Do you also want me to show you in most of those very same videos that they say healers are not necessary? Kinda debunks the whole "trinity" part of it when you don't need specific classes of the trinity to do the content.
Err, no FPS, RTS, and only one non-MMO RPG (Dragon Age) uses Holy Trinity combat.
Are you going to tell me real life is Holy Trinity now too? LOL.
While i am more for SWtor than GW2 you are fooling yoruself if you don't think this game is based on trinity. Everything they say points to it being a trinity game. To me that is a good thing for swtor and a bad thing for GW2 for others it is the opposite way. I like trinity becasue i have not seen another mechanic work in a mmo. So until one succedes I will stick to trinity over no trinity.
I'm currently planning on playing both of these titles, for very different reasons. My hype is equal for both of them. Which will be the most successful? probably SW:ToR
"No dedicated healer class" is not the same as "no dedicated healer spec." The former doesn't exist, the latter does. WoW doesn't have a dedicated healer class either (Priests are closest, but they have a DPS spec).
Seriously, every time they talk about group combat it is always covered with trinity mechanics. Same when they talk about how you spec your character.
Find me one instance this year where they've said healers aren't necessary. And if that's part of a quote where they've said that "you can have companions instead of a player healer" then that's NOT saying healers are unnecessary. Once they've actually started talking about group mechanics, they've stuck solidly to Trinity terminology. The old stuff was always full of "maybes" and "possibly" and "might" with a few "with difficulty"'s thrown in.
On the other hand they've never talked about hybrid specs or how'd they work. They only talk about Trinity specs. Force Wizards can spec to heal or range DPS. Shadows are melee DPS. Jedi Knights can become melee DPS or tanks. That's all they talk about with speccing. They don't say "here's a Consular who's specced as a healer/dps hybrid and here's how that works". They've never even said that's POSSIBLE to do AND BE VIABLE.