GW2 Videos: Farewell Gathering Outside the City

twrule · September 2010

Cool videos. My reaction was actually one of being impressed with how well the fps held up under extreme stress in those videos. I've never seen an mmo perform that well with the graphics settings turned up that high, with that much going on at once on the screen (and I have a pretty damn nice gaming rig).

If you were concerned about slowdown in pvp, it'd be wise to turn down the graphic options to maximize performance.

rbc13183 · September 2010

Okay, does every thread here have to get derailed into rudeness and bickering lately? For crying out loud people. This is just a freaking game.

drauss · September 2010

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by RobertDinh

I think i'd rather just sit here and let you shoot yourself in the foot since anyone that watches the videos can see the fps lag when they start spamming spells in a group.

Maybe it will give an onlooker a better perspective of the ridiculousness of some people who try to champion for gw2. It's basically severe denial if you can't notice the fps dips in the OP's links.

And you carry it further by being confident that my claims about the fps drops are baseless and just a rumor.

But this basically ties into a point I made in another thread about people playing or watching the demos and seeing only what they want to see, and not what is actually there.

Alright, I've seen the video now (f**in 11 min), and you're right: there is a moment that things get really hectic and you see a fps drop. I apologize, I thought it was your usual rumor mongering and seeing ghosts

See? That was me being objective, recognising that I had judged you wrong on this occasion and coming back on my belief that you were once again spouting nonsense. I'm willing to bet that this is an attitude we will never even see once in the months to come from you

That wasn't objective at all. You made a baseless claim while accusing me of making a baseless claim, before you even watched the videos. You then accuse me of "usual rumor mongering" when in reality everything i say is backed up by tons of evidence. You then go on to lace your "objective" response with things like "once again spouting nonsense" when I never spout nonsense, it is only perceived that way cause you are a you know what. You then go on to imply that you are being sincere despite all of your excuses and trash talk, and you are right you will never see that attitude from me, because I don't need to try and doll things up to be what they aren't. Now when you can actually just flat out admit you were completely wrong and illogical in your behavior we can talk.

Bottom line: Don't accuse others of not knowing what they are talking about when YOU are the one not doing your research.

Riiight.

I am glad to see in you objective commentary you managed to consider basic latency that would be caused by 40 demo stations connecting via a VPN from a single IP (Gamescom) to the fixed IP server (Gameserver in Seattle).

Now consider this Mr Dinh. You live in Washington State if your profile is accurate so you would ordinarily experience a ping under 50 to the GW server or likely to any MMO server as they usually are based in continental USA. Lag for you in relation to MMOs would be rare. It would happen but not all that often.

You would likely see individuals lagging in game teleporting etc but nothing like the video because of that reason.

The Gamescom connection which would have easily been 250-300 ping has to travel through 9 time zones to get reach the server. Thats already a significant delay. Now we need to add on the niceties of peak and off peak traffic that will affect flow of packets etc. We also have QoS management, traffic shaping, routing etc to consider but you can look that up if you want because my time is valueable and yours is not considering the amount you troll.

Hmmmm we haven't covered packet loss yet but I don't think we need to go there as it can be included in the whole latency and 9 time zones deal.

Oh and we have no idea what type of connection they were using at gamescom. It must have been pretty kick ass for 40 demo clients in an unfinished game.

Now I bet that they would have had to have used the onsite connection at gamescom which they also would have been sharing with all the other exhibitors. I think that connection would have seen some pretty serous traffic ata Games Convention.

Now as I live in Australia and have the unique privilege of just having to accept lag because the servers I like to play on are usually based in the USA (10-12 time zones away) I just accept this as normal. Nothing to do with the game, its just lag. You just got a taste of it. You won't get it if you connect from home wit hthe GW2 client.

So am I suprised that there was some lag. Nope not all. For the vast majority the game was very smooth. You should have been expecting some lag, as it was always going to happen. Code can be written into the game to smooth out lag. This is common practice in almost all RTS and FPS game. In this case GW2 may need to have its lag netcode tweaked but in my opinion when it goes live apart from netcafes and similar there won't be mass single IP logins other than if onlive gets GW2 which I doubt.

So Robert you have posted another ill thought out completely biased and non-objective series of posts. Why? Because you didn't even consider the most basic element of the internet. A problem for that matter has existed prior to the internet and is primarily element to any online experience

Now there is the FPS issue. this also could easily be related back to lag. When a skill is triggered it has to be trigger both client and server side. Lag, packet loss could have affected this.

Of course it could just be the game is still alpha and needs some optimization. Shatterer worked great though. Bout same amount of people too.

All things considered I put it down to lag. I don't see any PAX lag threads or issues????

You really ought to think about what you say before you say it. I am not the most knowledgeable person out there and I am always looking for someone to learn from.

Once again you prove to the masses that you are intellectually bankrupt...

drauss · September 2010

Originally posted by sayuri2006
I think all of these threads are going to get locked simply because of the amount of derailing there is, I know I did too much of it in one thread. I am not going to bother anymore.

I've seen the video and it looks good, there is lag as Robert has pointed out. At this stage I'm sure the devs are using this and other internal teams to organize "stress" tests and perhaps bring in some testers, it doesn't seem as though it would likely be a coding problem.

Robert, take it easy...Cyphers apologized and you went the extra mile and delivered a low blow.

I would like nothing more to have a civilised discussion in these threads. Robert does go the extra mile to stick in the boot for no better reason that he thinks he is somehow superior to others.

I think Robert has some valid points. I just wish he would back them up so we can debate them and not this stupid tit for tat crap that is going on.

Basically I have adopted the do unto others policy when replying to posts.

It has to stop else the thread will get locked.

sayuri2006 · September 2010

Originally posted by drauss

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by RobertDinh

I think i'd rather just sit here and let you shoot yourself in the foot since anyone that watches the videos can see the fps lag when they start spamming spells in a group.

Maybe it will give an onlooker a better perspective of the ridiculousness of some people who try to champion for gw2. It's basically severe denial if you can't notice the fps dips in the OP's links.

And you carry it further by being confident that my claims about the fps drops are baseless and just a rumor.

But this basically ties into a point I made in another thread about people playing or watching the demos and seeing only what they want to see, and not what is actually there.

Alright, I've seen the video now (f**in 11 min), and you're right: there is a moment that things get really hectic and you see a fps drop. I apologize, I thought it was your usual rumor mongering and seeing ghosts

See? That was me being objective, recognising that I had judged you wrong on this occasion and coming back on my belief that you were once again spouting nonsense. I'm willing to bet that this is an attitude we will never even see once in the months to come from you

That wasn't objective at all. You made a baseless claim while accusing me of making a baseless claim, before you even watched the videos. You then accuse me of "usual rumor mongering" when in reality everything i say is backed up by tons of evidence. You then go on to lace your "objective" response with things like "once again spouting nonsense" when I never spout nonsense, it is only perceived that way cause you are a you know what. You then go on to imply that you are being sincere despite all of your excuses and trash talk, and you are right you will never see that attitude from me, because I don't need to try and doll things up to be what they aren't. Now when you can actually just flat out admit you were completely wrong and illogical in your behavior we can talk.

Bottom line: Don't accuse others of not knowing what they are talking about when YOU are the one not doing your research.

Riiight.

I am glad to see in you objective commentary you managed to consider basic latency that would be caused by 40 demo stations connecting via a VPN from a single IP (Gamescom) to the fixed IP server (Gameserver in Seattle).

Now consider this Mr Dinh. You live in Washington State if your profile is accurate so you would ordinarily experience a ping under 50 to the GW server or likely to any MMO server as they usually are based in continental USA. Lag for you in relation to MMOs would be rare. It would happen but not all that often.

You would likely see individuals lagging in game teleporting etc but nothing like the video because of that reason.

The Gamescom connection which would have easily been 250-300 ping has to travel through 9 time zones to get reach the server. Thats already a significant delay. Now we need to add on the niceties of peak and off peak traffic that will affect flow of packets etc. We also have QoS management, traffic shaping, routing etc to consider but you can look that up if you want because my time is valueable and yours is not considering the amount you troll.

Hmmmm we haven't covered packet loss yet but I don't think we need to go there as it can be included in the whole latency and 9 time zones deal.

Oh and we have no idea what type of connection they were using at gamescom. It must have been pretty kick ass for 40 demo clients in an unfinished game.

Now I bet that they would have had to have used the onsite connection at gamescom which they also would have been sharing with all the other exhibitors. I think that connection would have seen some pretty serous traffic ata Games Convention.

Now as I live in Australia and have the unique privilege of just having to accept lag because the servers I like to play on are usually based in the USA (10-12 time zones away) I just accept this as normal. Nothing to do with the game, its just lag. You just got a taste of it. You won't get it if you connect from home wit hthe GW2 client.

So am I suprised that there was some lag. Nope not all. For the vast majority the game was very smooth. You should have been expecting some lag, as it was always going to happen. Code can be written into the game to smooth out lag. This is common practice in almost all RTS and FPS game. In this case GW2 may need to have its lag netcode tweaked but in my opinion when it goes live apart from netcafes and similar there won't be mass single IP logins other than if onlive gets GW2 which I doubt.

So Robert you have posted another ill thought out completely biased and non-objective series of posts. Why? Because you didn't even consider the most basic element of the internet. A problem for that matter has existed prior to the internet and is primarily element to any online experience

Now there is the FPS issue. this also could easily be related back to lag. When a skill is triggered it has to be trigger both client and server side. Lag, packet loss could have affected this.

Of course it could just be the game is still alpha and needs some optimization. Shatterer worked great though. Bout same amount of people too.

All things considered I put it down to lag. I don't see any PAX lag threads or issues????

You really ought to think about what you say before you say it. I am not the most knowledgeable person out there and I am always looking for someone to learn from.

Once again you prove to the masses that you are intellectually bankrupt...

10/10 /bow

Well said.

I don't have the best internet connection here as games that are in Oceania, like myself, have to use the servers that are in the States and like you said we don't know the set-up that was used at Gamescom and have to include the usual lag problems of distance from the closest IP servers.

It is not a problem with the coding of the MMORPG but unfortunately where I am is quite far away from where the servers are located.

Let's try and stare this topic back to order

djazzy · September 2010

Originally posted by rbc13183
Okay, does every thread here have to get derailed into rudeness and bickering lately? For crying out loud people. This is just a freaking game.

There is one common thread to all of the derailment and bickering. It's pretty easy to spot. I'll give you one guess.

MumboJumbo · September 2010

Originally posted by drauss

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by RobertDinh

I think i'd rather just sit here and let you shoot yourself in the foot since anyone that watches the videos can see the fps lag when they start spamming spells in a group.

Maybe it will give an onlooker a better perspective of the ridiculousness of some people who try to champion for gw2. It's basically severe denial if you can't notice the fps dips in the OP's links.

And you carry it further by being confident that my claims about the fps drops are baseless and just a rumor.

But this basically ties into a point I made in another thread about people playing or watching the demos and seeing only what they want to see, and not what is actually there.

Alright, I've seen the video now (f**in 11 min), and you're right: there is a moment that things get really hectic and you see a fps drop. I apologize, I thought it was your usual rumor mongering and seeing ghosts

See? That was me being objective, recognising that I had judged you wrong on this occasion and coming back on my belief that you were once again spouting nonsense. I'm willing to bet that this is an attitude we will never even see once in the months to come from you

That wasn't objective at all. You made a baseless claim while accusing me of making a baseless claim, before you even watched the videos. You then accuse me of "usual rumor mongering" when in reality everything i say is backed up by tons of evidence. You then go on to lace your "objective" response with things like "once again spouting nonsense" when I never spout nonsense, it is only perceived that way cause you are a you know what. You then go on to imply that you are being sincere despite all of your excuses and trash talk, and you are right you will never see that attitude from me, because I don't need to try and doll things up to be what they aren't. Now when you can actually just flat out admit you were completely wrong and illogical in your behavior we can talk.

Bottom line: Don't accuse others of not knowing what they are talking about when YOU are the one not doing your research.

Riiight.

I am glad to see in you objective commentary you managed to consider basic latency that would be caused by 40 demo stations connecting via a VPN from a single IP (Gamescom) to the fixed IP server (Gameserver in Seattle).

Now consider this Mr Dinh. You live in Washington State if your profile is accurate so you would ordinarily experience a ping under 50 to the GW server or likely to any MMO server as they usually are based in continental USA. Lag for you in relation to MMOs would be rare. It would happen but not all that often.

You would likely see individuals lagging in game teleporting etc but nothing like the video because of that reason.

The Gamescom connection which would have easily been 250-300 ping has to travel through 9 time zones to get reach the server. Thats already a significant delay. Now we need to add on the niceties of peak and off peak traffic that will affect flow of packets etc. We also have QoS management, traffic shaping, routing etc to consider but you can look that up if you want because my time is valueable and yours is not considering the amount you troll.

Hmmmm we haven't covered packet loss yet but I don't think we need to go there as it can be included in the whole latency and 9 time zones deal.

Oh and we have no idea what type of connection they were using at gamescom. It must have been pretty kick ass for 40 demo clients in an unfinished game.

Now I bet that they would have had to have used the onsite connection at gamescom which they also would have been sharing with all the other exhibitors. I think that connection would have seen some pretty serous traffic ata Games Convention.

Now as I live in Australia and have the unique privilege of just having to accept lag because the servers I like to play on are usually based in the USA (10-12 time zones away) I just accept this as normal. Nothing to do with the game, its just lag. You just got a taste of it. You won't get it if you connect from home wit hthe GW2 client.

So am I suprised that there was some lag. Nope not all. For the vast majority the game was very smooth. You should have been expecting some lag, as it was always going to happen. Code can be written into the game to smooth out lag. This is common practice in almost all RTS and FPS game. In this case GW2 may need to have its lag netcode tweaked but in my opinion when it goes live apart from netcafes and similar there won't be mass single IP logins other than if onlive gets GW2 which I doubt.

So Robert you have posted another ill thought out completely biased and non-objective series of posts. Why? Because you didn't even consider the most basic element of the internet. A problem for that matter has existed prior to the internet and is primarily element to any online experience

Now there is the FPS issue. this also could easily be related back to lag. When a skill is triggered it has to be trigger both client and server side. Lag, packet loss could have affected this.

Of course it could just be the game is still alpha and needs some optimization. Shatterer worked great though. Bout same amount of people too.

All things considered I put it down to lag. I don't see any PAX lag threads or issues????

You really ought to think about what you say before you say it. I am not the most knowledgeable person out there and I am always looking for someone to learn from.

Once again you prove to the masses that you are intellectually bankrupt...

Thanks for posting that, very very interesting. Always keen to learn more about networking. Top stuff and pushes the discussion on.

I think "wait and see" policy with lag is still my conclusion.

I do admit, good spot from RobertDinh concerning the lag and raising the question, but not backing with a quick link to the evidence, would have been helpful and strengthened his case that lag is something to ponder especially as he goes on to perhaps overextend that case? But mostly I agree with RobertDinh, with the general pov, that developers eg Mythic with WAR were bordering on lying to ppl about the true extent of mass PvP, so from a track-record perspective, GW2 will be swimming against the current/going against the grain if they are to deliver a top notch experience in Mass PvP or Mass PvE.

That's a significant feat if they manage it and about time developers were more transparent (which they seem to be again when compared with other developers).

As people have commented, proportionality of the lag, given it's in alpha and the network set-up explained, the question of lag on perfomance is not in jeopardy but I'd GW2 really MUST deliver in MASSIVE department for MMO-RPG.

dethgar · September 2010

There's no telling what kind of hardware and settings were being used in this play test. It's something you need to experience in person, on a machine you know, in order to really diagnose the problem.

In my experience, today's MMO gamers know the least about hardware, frame rates, networking, and lag in comparison to veteran online gamers.

splitcold · September 2010

Originally posted by dethgar
In my experience, today's MMO gamers know the least about hardware, frame rates, networking, and lag in comparison to veteran online gamers.

You know MMO can be considered a genre and veteran online in your context is used as a time frame, complete opposites. Who you trying to piss off here?

drauss · September 2010

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

Thanks for posting that, very interesting. Always keen to learn more about networking. Top stuff.

I think "wait and see" policy with lag is still my conclusion. I do admit, good spot from Mr RobertDinh concerning the lag and raising the question, but not backing with a quick link to the evidence, would have been helpful and strengthened his concerns that lag is something to ponder especially as he goes on to perhaps overextend his case?

I also agree with RobertDinh, with the general pov, that developers eg Mythic with WAR were bordering on lying to ppl about the true extent of mass PvP, so from a track-record perspective, GW2 will be swimming against the current/going against the grain if they are to deliver a top notch experience in Mass PvP or Mass PvE.

That's a significant feat if they manage it and about time developers were more transparent (which they seem to be again when compared with other developers).

I am not the end authority with networking but it just seemed to me to be common sense.

I share your concerns about how the end product will play but to a large degree it may be "safe" to invest a good chunk of faith in Arenanet. In a business where "Good will" in developers is an abused currency in failed promises etc. I don't think Arenanet's "Good Faith" could be called into question with their progress to date. They have gone out of their way to show a real working live product. This again is fuelling the huge hype IMO.

Although we all want more info they are most likely doing the right thing by only releasing information that is confirmed as ingame content / mechanics. This way they avoid any "They lied to us about it being in the release" type AoC / WAR deal. I believe in 1 interview one of the top Anet guys (I think Randy Price or Eric Flannum) stated that given the current MMO market it is simply not good enough to release a product that simply does not deliver on all fronts. (I can look it up if anyone needs proof) By this I mean the game works as promised and is as of a higher or superior quality of any competing product. Just because its a new product is no excuse for lack of content / broken mechanics.

Although I am eagerly anticipating GW2 and I will get it on release day etc. the final proof will be in the pudding. Anet knows that this is a buy once play forever type deal. Just like the other non-MMO games out there. They can't afford to get it wrong and they know it.

Fail or succeed what they are attempting is a step in the right directions for all genres.

heavyhebrew · September 2010

Originally posted by rbc13183
Okay, does every thread here have to get derailed into rudeness and bickering lately? For crying out loud people. This is just a freaking game.

Welcome to the Internet, where reason and intellect go to die. Horribly. By gunshot to the head.

When I played the mid level Charr demo against the Shatterer, I didn't notice one bit of lag. Not a fps drop, not a smidgen of UI lag, nothing. Same in Shaemoor human starter zone when there were easily 50+ people running about, smacking Centaurs, bandits, worms, etc.

But obviously, seeing that video, video optimization for high pixel/shader count in pvp will be an issue for early alpha. /sarcasm

For real tho, I keep trying to find a issue to concern myself over with this game. The only thing I can come up with is a lack of data for analysis.

Palebane · September 2010

Originally posted by Grazzul
Lag in WvW won't be much of a problem because everyone will be spread out.

It will be a huge area, with so many things to do than just huddle in one spot and fight.

Arenanet said that already

Lag could be one thing that actually prevents players from doing that even if they wanted to. Just saying.

illyana · September 2010

this has been my desktop image since gamescom ^_^

RobertDinh · September 2010

Originally posted by cyphers

Lol. Chill, you're sounding very emotional and not objective at all, people might think that I've struck a chord with you

And yes, you do show a pattern: you think everyone who's positive about the game is not objective (which logically is as flawed as things can be), you go out of your way to find faults in GW2 and then you go on for threadpages after threadpages rehashing the same argument again and again, almost always with no proof at all besides you saying how biased everyone who disagrees with you is. So what do you expect? I mean, you are the guy that says Dynamic Events are just like quests in other MMO's as WoW.
I mean, how laughably ridiculous is that? Now that's bias and being blind for reality as much as I've seen anyone post
Anyway, I'm done with you arguing about this before you ruin and derail another thread and get it to be closed, I can sense you're becoming emotional about it again.

So first you try to spew an insincere apology when you are clearly proven wrong acting like it is the first time i've been way more well-informed on a subject than you have. And then you go on to accuse me of being emotional merely for pointing out the flaws in your behavior. Hate to break it to you but just because someone proves you wrong (this hasn't been the first time either) it doesn't mean they are riled up or emotional or anything you conjure up to try and discredit where they are coming from, they may simply be proving you wrong as I have.

As for the other posts, you can go and pretend that anet was using a 486 hosted out of south africa for their demos, but the reality of it is they wanted to promote their game and promote an impressive experience, obviously they aren't intentionally going to show you a demo with severe lag issues, they probably just didn't expect people to get together and spam spells like that. But again it's a typical case of people clearly seeing a plain and obvious flaw in the game, and trying to misconstrue the circumstances because in their mind gw2 has no flaws.

If the game can't handle spell spamming in a demo at a gaming convention, it definitely is going to need to be revamped if it intends to handle a large load of players in wvwvw in live with players playing from all over the world with different computer specs. If you can't understand that then oh well, but I myself prefer to be objective.

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by Grazzul

Lag in WvW won't be much of a problem because everyone will be spread out.
It will be a huge area, with so many things to do than just huddle in one spot and fight.
Arenanet said that already

Lag could be one thing that actually prevents players from doing that even if they wanted to. Just saying.

WvWvW would be quite pointless if the game wasn't built for large scale battles. And yes, if the game gets horrible fps drops in various scenarios, people will start avoiding those scenarios. Sort of like how some people avoid Dalaran in wow during prime time on highly populated servers.

Sentime · September 2010

Originally posted by Karesh

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Great find... second video really shows how laggy the game can get when a lot of people are in one area using spells. And the mists should have many more players than that.

You've got to remember though, the game hasn't even hit beta yet

If I only had a dollar for every time someone has said this I'd be a millionaire.

Fact is, there won't be a change unless you spend $$$ on better rigs or downgrade your GFX to make the game look like 1995.

RobertDinh · September 2010

Originally posted by Sentime

Originally posted by Karesh

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Great find... second video really shows how laggy the game can get when a lot of people are in one area using spells. And the mists should have many more players than that.

You've got to remember though, the game hasn't even hit beta yet

If I only had a dollar for every time someone has said this I'd be a millionaire.

Fact is, there won't be a change unless you spend $$$ on better rigs or downgrade your GFX to make the game look like 1995.

Yea i think the reason people don't really have experience with these things is because they are generally new to the mmo market. So they don't understand the whole concept that developers almost always bite off more than they can chew. Even WoW has and it is the most polished and well-funded MMO in history, and also the most successful.

MMO.Maverick · September 2010

Originally posted by RobertDinh

So first you try to spew an insincere apology when you are clearly proven wrong (snips)

Sorry to break off your rant but an apology just because you're right for a change is as far as it goes. I don't make it a habit to keep debating with people that need to vent their emotions all the time and declare over and over again how more objective they are than others. If you want to keep fanatically ranting then I suggest you use your mirror for it, you'll have a very attentive audience.

I leave the last word in this pingpong debate to you, I have no doubt you'll use it to go off on a subjective rant again where you keep boring all people with saying how more objective and experienced you are than other people = everyone who disagrees with you and likes what they see of GW2.

Originally posted by heavyhebrew

When I played the mid level Charr demo against the Shatterer, I didn't notice one bit of lag. Not a fps drop, not a smidgen of UI lag, nothing. Same in Shaemoor human starter zone when there were easily 50+ people running about, smacking Centaurs, bandits, worms, etc.

For real tho, I keep trying to find a issue to concern myself over with this game. The only thing I can come up with is a lack of data for analysis.

I noticed it too, the demo obviously already managed to have 50-60 people fighting a huge mob boss and all other kinds of mobs without getting into lag, so that looks promising indeed.

We'll see how things progress further along the line in the months to come.

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by rbc13183

Okay, does every thread here have to get derailed into rudeness and bickering lately? For crying out loud people. This is just a freaking game.

There is one common thread to all of the derailment and bickering. It's pretty easy to spot. I'll give you one guess.

I think all regular visitors don't need a guess, it's indeed pretty obvious where most of the trolling derailment attempts come from.

RobertDinh · September 2010

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by RobertDinh

So first you try to spew an insincere apology when you are clearly proven wrong (snips)

Sorry to break off your rant but an apology just because you're right for a change is as far as it goes. I don't make it a habit to keep debating with people that need to vent their emotions all the time and declare over and over again how more objective they are than others. If you want to keep fanatically ranting then I suggest you use your mirror for it, you'll have a very attentive audience.

I leave the last word in this pingpong debate to you, I have no doubt you'll use it to go off on a subjective rant again where you keep boring all people with saying how more objective and experienced you are than other people = everyone who disagrees with you and likes what they see of GW2.

Originally posted by heavyhebrew

When I played the mid level Charr demo against the Shatterer, I didn't notice one bit of lag. Not a fps drop, not a smidgen of UI lag, nothing. Same in Shaemoor human starter zone when there were easily 50+ people running about, smacking Centaurs, bandits, worms, etc.

For real tho, I keep trying to find a issue to concern myself over with this game. The only thing I can come up with is a lack of data for analysis.

I noticed it too, the demo obviously already managed to have 50-60 people fighting a huge mob boss and all other kinds of mobs without getting into lag, so that looks promising indeed.

We'll see how things progress further along the line in the months to come.

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by rbc13183

Okay, does every thread here have to get derailed into rudeness and bickering lately? For crying out loud people. This is just a freaking game.

There is one common thread to all of the derailment and bickering. It's pretty easy to spot. I'll give you one guess.

I think all regular visitors don't need a guess, it's indeed pretty obvious where most of the trolling derailment attempts come from.

I agree, the derailment comes when someone points out something relative to the OP, and then another person incorrectly accuses that person of being wrong and begins trying to attack the person that was replying to the OP because his fanatical views are not shared by the guy replying to the OP.

Then when the person who accuses the guy replying to the OP of being wrong actually realizes he is wrong, he isn't actually dignified enough to just straight up admit he is wrong, but instead he tries to throw out ad hominem attacks in an insincere apology and then keeps saying he is done responding but then continually tries to throw out personal attacks.

The thread speaks for itself, that is exactly what happened, I comment on the fps lag in the videos, you accuse me of making baseless claims, you then realize how wrong you are and try to apologize while still trying to take jabs at me, at least jabs as perceived by you, but obviously in reality is different than your perspective. Then you basically want to accuse me of derailing the thread, when you are the one that tried to execute personal attacks accusing me of baseless rumor mongering when I was completely well-supported in my point by the OP's links. You even went so far as to do it before even ever watching the videos, do you know why you behave that way? Because you make claims not based on evidence, but based on your skewed assumptions.

Bottom line: Do some research before you try to attack others for their points.

Originally posted by cyphers

Originally posted by RobertDinh

How about you watch the videos beforehand before automatically jumping to the game's defense and requiring timestamps. It is as obvious as can be that there is severe lag.

Nope, it is not... wait, you can't cough up any evidence again for your baseless claims? WoW... talk about rumor mongering

I don't think I have ever see you found your claims in all your posts with a concrete source, clip or ingame example, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that you failed to do so again.

Here is where the thread really gets derailed where I suggest you actually watch the videos that the thread is built around, and you sit there in complete denial trying to argue just for the sake of arguing when the proof is clear. This is typical behavior for people who do not look at things objectively, but instead adopt a point of view where GW2 can do no wrong and anyone that might point out the game's flaws are always wrong.

Morcotulcon · September 2010

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by Sentime

Originally posted by Karesh

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Great find... second video really shows how laggy the game can get when a lot of people are in one area using spells. And the mists should have many more players than that.

You've got to remember though, the game hasn't even hit beta yet

If I only had a dollar for every time someone has said this I'd be a millionaire.

Fact is, there won't be a change unless you spend $$$ on better rigs or downgrade your GFX to make the game look like 1995.

Yea i think the reason people don't really have experience with these things is because they are generally new to the mmo market. So they don't understand the whole concept that developers almost always bite off more than they can chew. Even WoW has and it is the most polished and well-funded MMO in history, and also the most successful.

Hhhmmmm! Developers tend to bite something they don't know the taste, that's why they can't chew. And up until now, All the GW2 developers had biten was something they themselves have cooked, tasted before and implemented in their restaurant. If they don't like the taste when cooking, they start with another recipe. In other words, all they have talked about was already implemented in the game, so they must have tested it already to have good results don't you think?

Oh and BTW, I usually play F2P game. I usually see the infos about the games before the CBT, OBT and release. I know very well what you mean by that. But Arena.net always have done a good job promising something and delivering in GW1. They are doing the same thing with GW2 up until now.

@Sentime - where have you seen the game look like 1995?? and BTW, have you ever seen the graphics of GW1 on a crap laptop? I have. In fact, the laptop i'm using now is so crappy that almost all games can't run in this. WoW had crappy graphics in here too. Even FM2010 has graphic problems running in this laptop. BUT GW1 run really well. In fact, I could almost use the graphics at the max (great graphics at the max btw... the water graphics beats a lot of mmorpg's i've seen recently).

I've seen the footage. All the videos. And they said that the game can run in a laptop like mine with good graphics, and I believe them, because in GW1 the minimum graphics required were lower at the time too, and the game was still good in grapghics. Besides almost all games have much more lag in its Alpha and CBT and later they have fixed like 80% of it. Do you think that A.net will be different? (although they have proved more professionalism than any other company for at least a decade). Secondly, what game doesn't have lag with a lot of players in the same area using a lot of skills?

RobertDinh · September 2010

Originally posted by Morcotulcon

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by Sentime

Originally posted by Karesh

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Great find... second video really shows how laggy the game can get when a lot of people are in one area using spells. And the mists should have many more players than that.

You've got to remember though, the game hasn't even hit beta yet

If I only had a dollar for every time someone has said this I'd be a millionaire.

Fact is, there won't be a change unless you spend $$$ on better rigs or downgrade your GFX to make the game look like 1995.

Yea i think the reason people don't really have experience with these things is because they are generally new to the mmo market. So they don't understand the whole concept that developers almost always bite off more than they can chew. Even WoW has and it is the most polished and well-funded MMO in history, and also the most successful.

Hhhmmmm! Developers tend to bite something they don't know the taste, that's why they can't chew. And up until now, All the GW2 developers had biten was something they themselves have cooked, tasted before and implemented in their restaurant. If they don't like the taste when cooking, they start with another recipe. In other words, all they have talked about was already implemented in the game, so they must have tested it already to have good results don't you think?

Oh and BTW, I usually play F2P game. I usually see the infos about the games before the CBT, OBT and release. I know very well what you mean by that. But Arena.net always have done a good job promising something and delivering in GW1. They are doing the same thing with GW2 up until now.

@Sentime - where have you seen the game look like 1995?? and BTW, have you ever seen the graphics of GW1 on a crap laptop? I have. In fact, the laptop i'm using now is so crappy that almost all games can't run in this. WoW had crappy graphics in here too. Even FM2010 has graphic problems running in this laptop. BUT GW1 run really well. In fact, I could almost use the graphics at the max (great graphics at the max btw... the water graphics beats a lot of mmorpg's i've seen recently).

I've seen the footage. All the videos. And they said that the game can run in a laptop like mine with good graphics, and I believe them, because in GW1 the minimum graphics required were lower at the time too, and the game was still good in grapghics. Besides almost all games have much more lag in its Alpha and CBT and later they have fixed like 80% of it. Do you think that A.net will be different? (although they have proved more professionalism than any other company for at least a decade). Secondly, what game doesn't have lag with a lot of players in the same area using a lot of skills?

You have it wrong, most games suffer more lag in release than beta. Even the best stress test can never simulate accurately the load a game consistently takes once it goes live. Anet has claimed they want to put the mmo back in mmorpg but honestly nothing they have displayed has shown any real dedication to the massive aspect of mmos. PvE end game is 5 man dungeons, and the game is suffering major fps dips in a demo where the spell effects aren't even effecting everyone cause there isn't friendly fire.

Morcotulcon · September 2010

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by Morcotulcon

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by Sentime

Originally posted by Karesh

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Great find... second video really shows how laggy the game can get when a lot of people are in one area using spells. And the mists should have many more players than that.

You've got to remember though, the game hasn't even hit beta yet

If I only had a dollar for every time someone has said this I'd be a millionaire.

Fact is, there won't be a change unless you spend $$$ on better rigs or downgrade your GFX to make the game look like 1995.

Yea i think the reason people don't really have experience with these things is because they are generally new to the mmo market. So they don't understand the whole concept that developers almost always bite off more than they can chew. Even WoW has and it is the most polished and well-funded MMO in history, and also the most successful.

Hhhmmmm! Developers tend to bite something they don't know the taste, that's why they can't chew. And up until now, All the GW2 developers had biten was something they themselves have cooked, tasted before and implemented in their restaurant. If they don't like the taste when cooking, they start with another recipe. In other words, all they have talked about was already implemented in the game, so they must have tested it already to have good results don't you think?

Oh and BTW, I usually play F2P game. I usually see the infos about the games before the CBT, OBT and release. I know very well what you mean by that. But Arena.net always have done a good job promising something and delivering in GW1. They are doing the same thing with GW2 up until now.

@Sentime - where have you seen the game look like 1995?? and BTW, have you ever seen the graphics of GW1 on a crap laptop? I have. In fact, the laptop i'm using now is so crappy that almost all games can't run in this. WoW had crappy graphics in here too. Even FM2010 has graphic problems running in this laptop. BUT GW1 run really well. In fact, I could almost use the graphics at the max (great graphics at the max btw... the water graphics beats a lot of mmorpg's i've seen recently).

I've seen the footage. All the videos. And they said that the game can run in a laptop like mine with good graphics, and I believe them, because in GW1 the minimum graphics required were lower at the time too, and the game was still good in grapghics. Besides almost all games have much more lag in its Alpha and CBT and later they have fixed like 80% of it. Do you think that A.net will be different? (although they have proved more professionalism than any other company for at least a decade). Secondly, what game doesn't have lag with a lot of players in the same area using a lot of skills?

You have it wrong, most games suffer more lag in release than beta. Even the best stress test can never simulate accurately the load a game consistently takes once it goes live. Anet has claimed they want to put the mmo back in mmorpg but honestly nothing they have displayed has shown any real dedication to the massive aspect of mmos. PvE end game is 5 man dungeons, and the game is suffering major fps dips in a demo where the spell effects aren't even effecting everyone cause there isn't friendly fire.

MMORPGs have more lag in release because they have more players in the game. But I'm talking about the things that happen before release, in OBT and CBT, where just doing something simple with a few players give lags

For ex: some games the player has lag while doing simple things like some skills or just walking around in the city, although there are really few players around him. They fix all those lag issues until release (80% of it in general). In release, the player sees dozens/hundreds in the city, thats why he lags. If the devs hadn't fixed the most of the lags before, it would be impossible to even move in the game.

About end-game: they said there will be dungeons and some other things, BUT they are still making and testing more things to do, they just don't wanna talk about it before having those things in the game. (and they like to always want something to give a surprise to the players in all the important parts of the game, that's why they haven't talked about PVP, haven't talked much about W vs W vs W, and haven´t talked much end-game. They want something to give more hype to the game when releasing information).

And btw, there is no real "end-game" here, because you can still do ALL the events in the world, it doesn't matter what lvl you are because it will still be engaging doing it.

dinams · September 2010

Resuming what RobertDinh says in every forum (Including this one)

I am superior/far more intelligent and objective than you all, you all are blind fools.

The same as usual, this is why I dont bother talking to you Robert ,Since you said that the game was going to suck and be heavily instanced before gamescom.

drauss · September 2010

Originally posted by RobertDinh

So first you try to spew an insincere apology when you are clearly proven wrong acting like it is the first time i've been way more well-informed on a subject than you have.

Well actually you aren't clearly proven right are you. Your opinion is nothing but pure speculation is it? You can't prove anything other than the game lagged or FPS stuttered. I guess it was too much to even respond to my post but I bet you read it. Although I may not be entirely correct it is more credible than just its than your completely generalised nothing statement of

"There will also be large scale confrontations at times though, and it seems that it will suffer from some pretty bad lag wintergrasp style.

Also unless they district wvwvw, which would be extremely weak, players will still choose to group and zerg over certain points.

From what we've SEEN so far the game can suffer some pretty bad lag, that is what we've actually seen, not what we theorize to be fixed."

Wow you can decide a games quality by watching a 10 min video where it seems it was the reported only time the game lagged. Are you so hard up on trying to grasp negative things on GW2 this is all you could manage? Wow I could do better and I like the game.

Originally posted by RobertDinh
And then you go on to accuse me of being emotional merely for pointing out the flaws in your behavior. Hate to break it to you but just because someone proves you wrong (this hasn't been the first time either) it doesn't mean they are riled up or emotional or anything you conjure up to try and discredit where they are coming from, they may simply be proving you wrong as I have.

I could swear you are talking about yourself here. Isn't this exactly your Modus Operandi. character assassination, discredit opinions by bluster and misdirection, creation of a false pretense and then martyrdom. You haven't proven anyone right or wrong. You just fail to acknowledge that anyone else is allowed to have a valid opinion.

Originally posted by RobertDinh
As for the other posts, you can go and pretend that anet was using a 486 hosted out of south africa for their demos, but the reality of it is they wanted to promote their game and promote an impressive experience, obviously they aren't intentionally going to show you a demo with severe lag issues, they probably just didn't expect people to get together and spam spells like that.

I remember i486dx2-66... Awesome playing Doom and Doom 2 on our IPX lan with the old school coax cables... Ahh memories. Ahem anyways back to your invalid point. Yes invalid because you are basically just lieing there and creating an exaggerated response to deflect the fact that have nothing to say here and kinda meander along with this one...

You make a large mistake here though. One that ultimately make you look quite foolish in fact. It would have been a planned event to go back to divinities reach for the goodbye. They mapped from the lvl 47 zone to Divinity's Reach. Look at the spells they cast. They are not starter character spells and they aren't coming from the human avatars. This would have been stressed tested prior to Gamescom. I believe that they were unfortunate and hit a period of lag and this is what you see.

Originally posted by RobertDinh
But again it's a typical case of people clearly seeing a plain and obvious flaw in the game, and trying to misconstrue the circumstances because in their mind gw2 has no flaws.

You can permanently solve the internet lag issues. Good god man! Stop wasting your time here and start printing money!!!

Originally posted by RobertDinh
If the game can't handle spell spamming in a demo at a gaming convention, it definitely is going to need to be revamped if it intends to handle a large load of players in wvwvw in live with players playing from all over the world with different computer specs. If you can't understand that then oh well, but I myself prefer to be objective.

Just go back and read my post will ya its right here

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/post/3806585

I wrote it in english and everything. Don't ask me to fix up the approx 5 grammar and spelling mistakes I can't be bothered. Your objective so you will be willing to consider all viewpoints right??? Right??

Originally posted by RobertDinh
WvWvW would be quite pointless if the game wasn't built for large scale battles. And yes, if the game gets horrible fps drops in various scenarios, people will start avoiding those scenarios. Sort of like how some people avoid Dalaran in wow during prime time on highly populated servers.

Well I guess we will just have to see on that one won't we. You might even get to experience the horrendous build quality again in a Beta.

The only game you have mentioned in a remotely positive way is WoW so I guess that is what does it for you. So if you kinda like WoW what are you doing here? Is it like the berate the evil temptress mistress so when you fall victim to GW2 and like it you can say "Its really not that good" while you try not to feel guilty?

GW2 is like a unlimited supply of icecream. Enough for everybody.

Pity I am lactose intolerant... Pity for you that is as I like icecream

Deathenger · September 2010

Originally posted by RobertDinh
Great find... second video really shows how laggy the game can get when a lot of people are in one area using spells. And the mists should have many more players than that.

Show me one game out there with high end graphics that wont lag like that, with that large a concentration of players spamming spells.

I doubt we'll see any battles in pvp where everybody is bunched together so tighly. Though I would like so see the battle field with that many players spread out to see how it laggs.

RobertDinh · September 2010

Originally posted by dinams
Resuming what RobertDinh says in every forum (Including this one)

I am superior/far more intelligent and objective than you all, you all are blind fools.

The same as usual, this is why I dont bother talking to you Robert ,Since you said that the game was going to suck and be heavily instanced before gamescom.

I can guarantee I never said the game was going to "suck" or be "heavily instanced". This would be a case of someone thinking gw2 can have no flaws misconstruing what someone that is objective of the game has to say. You somehow equate valid criticisms into "game will suck". You probably also misinterpreted "end game pve being about 5man dungeons" as meaning "the game will be heavily instanced". The fault is not with me here, it is with you being unable to interpret things for what they are, and adding your own little twist onto them and taking them out of context.

Originally posted by drauss

Originally posted by RobertDinh

So first you try to spew an insincere apology when you are clearly proven wrong acting like it is the first time i've been way more well-informed on a subject than you have.

Well actually you aren't clearly proven right are you. Your opinion is nothing but pure speculation is it? You can't prove anything other than the game lagged or FPS stuttered. I guess it was too much to even respond to my post but I bet you read it. Although I may not be entirely correct it is more credible than just its than your completely generalised nothing statement of

"There will also be large scale confrontations at times though, and it seems that it will suffer from some pretty bad lag wintergrasp style.

Also unless they district wvwvw, which would be extremely weak, players will still choose to group and zerg over certain points.

From what we've SEEN so far the game can suffer some pretty bad lag, that is what we've actually seen, not what we theorize to be fixed."

Wow you can decide a games quality by watching a 10 min video where it seems it was the reported only time the game lagged. Are you so hard up on trying to grasp negative things on GW2 this is all you could manage? Wow I could do better and I like the game.

Originally posted by RobertDinh
And then you go on to accuse me of being emotional merely for pointing out the flaws in your behavior. Hate to break it to you but just because someone proves you wrong (this hasn't been the first time either) it doesn't mean they are riled up or emotional or anything you conjure up to try and discredit where they are coming from, they may simply be proving you wrong as I have.

I could swear you are talking about yourself here. Isn't this exactly your Modus Operandi. character assassination, discredit opinions by bluster and misdirection, creation of a false pretense and then martyrdom. You haven't proven anyone right or wrong. You just fail to acknowledge that anyone else is allowed to have a valid opinion.

Originally posted by RobertDinh
As for the other posts, you can go and pretend that anet was using a 486 hosted out of south africa for their demos, but the reality of it is they wanted to promote their game and promote an impressive experience, obviously they aren't intentionally going to show you a demo with severe lag issues, they probably just didn't expect people to get together and spam spells like that.

I remember i486dx2-66... Awesome playing Doom and Doom 2 on our IPX lan with the old school coax cables... Ahh memories. Ahem anyways back to your invalid point. Yes invalid because you are basically just lieing there and creating an exaggerated response to deflect the fact that have nothing to say here and kinda meander along with this one...

You make a large mistake here though. One that ultimately make you look quite foolish in fact. It would have been a planned event to go back to divinities reach for the goodbye. They mapped from the lvl 47 zone to Divinity's Reach. Look at the spells they cast. They are not starter character spells and they aren't coming from the human avatars. This would have been stressed tested prior to Gamescom. I believe that they were unfortunate and hit a period of lag and this is what you see.

Originally posted by RobertDinh
But again it's a typical case of people clearly seeing a plain and obvious flaw in the game, and trying to misconstrue the circumstances because in their mind gw2 has no flaws.

You can permanently solve the internet lag issues. Good god man! Stop wasting your time here and start printing money!!!

Originally posted by RobertDinh
If the game can't handle spell spamming in a demo at a gaming convention, it definitely is going to need to be revamped if it intends to handle a large load of players in wvwvw in live with players playing from all over the world with different computer specs. If you can't understand that then oh well, but I myself prefer to be objective.

Just go back and read my post will ya its right here

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/post/3806585

I wrote it in english and everything. Don't ask me to fix up the approx 5 grammar and spelling mistakes I can't be bothered. Your objective so you will be willing to consider all viewpoints right??? Right??

Originally posted by RobertDinh
WvWvW would be quite pointless if the game wasn't built for large scale battles. And yes, if the game gets horrible fps drops in various scenarios, people will start avoiding those scenarios. Sort of like how some people avoid Dalaran in wow during prime time on highly populated servers.

Well I guess we will just have to see on that one won't we. You might even get to experience the horrendous build quality again in a Beta.

The only game you have mentioned in a remotely positive way is WoW so I guess that is what does it for you. So if you kinda like WoW what are you doing here? Is it like the berate the evil temptress mistress so when you fall victim to GW2 and like it you can say "Its really not that good" while you try not to feel guilty?

GW2 is like a unlimited supply of icecream. Enough for everybody.

Pity I am lactose intolerant... Pity for you that is as I like icecream

Actually it was pretty clearly proven in the video that when they were spamming spells together the game started having severe fps drops. What's next? Are you going to try to argue that the person playing the demo accidentally put the computer into defrag mode? Perhaps windows was updating? Maybe some spyware? Denial is fun but I prefer to be objective.

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