Is this an anthology of other folks's rants collected from these boards? Not much credibility, if any in there.
"too bad everything is instanced" - if anything, this proves you have absolutely no knowledge of this game.
DB
No, its a summary of MY experience with the game that I followed since 2003 to release. Back when it was still called Middle Earth Online, back when Turbine was still holding conventions for its fans and interacting with its communities, back when LotRO still had a strong mature community. LotRO's story is a sad one. But sure, if you want to write off all my observations with a simple "nuh uh" go right ahead, but I'm not the one losing credibility.
And yes, a ton of stuff is instanced. I found a random cave once while exploring and it wouldn't let me enter, text appeared saying "You cannot enter here without a quest".
What you have written down is just a clear display of the ignorance you have about LOTRO in its current form. You might have known it during development, that is possible.
But it's story is not a sad one, quite the opposite actually, it's a commercial and critical success as well. YOUR story expecting MEO and not getting it, is the one which is sad. For you
(edited for your edit: yes, there are instances. No, not everything is instanced - pretty far from it, actually.But it's ok. You actually have to play the game to know it.)
DB
I played the game from alpha, to beta, to release, then again 5 months after release. I know enough about the game, you have not addressed a single one of my complaints. And no, LotRO was barely a success, it lost the majority of people following it when it switched from MEO to LotRO and just settled for the people that WoW hadn't grabbed. And yes, any time something great is destroyed for something lesser, and goes unnoticed, its a sad story, and look, now LotRO is going free to play, some DDO had to do because it was failing so badly.
But do go on, if I'm ignorant, correct me. <rolls eyes>
I am an old school gamer, my first MMORPG was EQ1 and I can tell you I love LOTRO.
I am a new F2P player in LOTRO and I already purchased the boxed MoM expansion. This game is awesome. The strong points for me:
-Beautiful graphics: The landscapes are absolutely gorgeous.
-Interesting and customizable classes.
-Plenty of quests
-Lore
-Mature community.
This is not a PvP game. For some this could be an issue, but honestly in this case I couldn´t care less. This game is making me revive the feeling of exploration and freedom I had with EQ back in the day.
I am very pleased with LOTRO. It´s a very polished product, and with the F2P transition there is plenty of new players like me and veterans returning making an interesting blend. I can see this game has a great future.
I don't understand how an oldschool gamer can see that in LotRO though. There are far too many quests, and 80% of them are junk. I must have gotten the exact same boar quest no less than 14 times before I quit, each making up a boring new reason to have me killing the same reskinned boar model. The only good thing I liked about the quest is that they didn't mark what you needed to kill on your map so you'd have to explore a little, but I believe they "fixed" that didn't they?
The community on the forums is mature, but the community in game it doesn't exist. The entire game focuses on soloing so you never meet anyone and the only time ANYONE groups is for a group quest step. You all grab the quest, run to the instance, kill the boss, then disband without saying a single word usually. And as good as the forum community is now, it used to be much better. Back when LotRO was still a sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, it had, without a doubt, the best online community ever, but Turbine screwed over its loyal fans and most of the fans of MEO left.
The lore is good in some places, but in others its simply butchered. That's what happens when you license an IP. MEO was going to stick a lot closer to the lore, but Turbine decided to axe most of their good ideas when they decided to make LotRO a WoW clone.
The classes are pretty much your standard affair. Maybe they changed this since last I played, but there was nothing customizable about them.
But yes, the graphics are kind of pretty, too bad everything is instanced and linear so it doesn't even remotely feel like a virtual world. It's very clear you're in a GAME.
But that's my rant. It's still better than WoW, but it could have been so much more.
Is this an anthology of other folks's rants collected from these boards? Not much credibility, if any in there.
"too bad everything is instanced" - if anything, this proves you have absolutely no knowledge of this game.
DB
No, its a summary of MY experience with the game that I followed since 2003 to release. Back when it was still called Middle Earth Online, back when Turbine was still holding conventions for its fans and interacting with its communities, back when LotRO still had a strong mature community. LotRO's story is a sad one. But sure, if you want to write off all my observations with a simple "nuh uh" go right ahead, but I'm not the one losing credibility.
And yes, a ton of stuff is instanced. I found a random cave once while exploring and it wouldn't let me enter, text appeared saying "You cannot enter here without a quest".
To be clear it was called MEO when another company owned it. That company couldn't deliver so Turbine got the rights to the game and then it was called LotRO. Blame the company that had tons of big ideas but obviously no clue on how to actually make a game. Sure I could list of the most amazing MMO ever and then complain some other company ruined the game when I failed to even come close to making the game myself.
I always found LotRO's community to be amazing (so did an article on Massively btw, but I can't possible see why a person as nice and wonderful as you would have a hard time getting people to be nice to you). They were always helpful when I had questions and the chat was always friendly. I always saw tons of people around and never had an issue getting a group at any level while not being a guild.
To me you've lost tons of credibility (if you ever had any) with this post. You're observations are so far off base from the majority of people but yet you insist that your experience is the truth.
Is this an anthology of other folks's rants collected from these boards? Not much credibility, if any in there.
"too bad everything is instanced" - if anything, this proves you have absolutely no knowledge of this game.
DB
No, its a summary of MY experience with the game that I followed since 2003 to release. Back when it was still called Middle Earth Online, back when Turbine was still holding conventions for its fans and interacting with its communities, back when LotRO still had a strong mature community. LotRO's story is a sad one. But sure, if you want to write off all my observations with a simple "nuh uh" go right ahead, but I'm not the one losing credibility.
And yes, a ton of stuff is instanced. I found a random cave once while exploring and it wouldn't let me enter, text appeared saying "You cannot enter here without a quest".
What you have written down is just a clear display of the ignorance you have about LOTRO in its current form. You might have known it during development, that is possible.
But it's story is not a sad one, quite the opposite actually, it's a commercial and critical success as well. YOUR story expecting MEO and not getting it, is the one which is sad. For you
(edited for your edit: yes, there are instances. No, not everything is instanced - pretty far from it, actually.But it's ok. You actually have to play the game to know it.)
DB
I played the game from alpha, to beta, to release, then again 5 months after release. I know enough about the game, you have not addressed a single one of my complaints. And no, LotRO was barely a success, it lost the majority of people following it when it switched from MEO to LotRO and just settled for the people that WoW hadn't grabbed. And yes, any time something great is destroyed for something lesser, and goes unnoticed, its a sad story, and look, now LotRO is going free to play, some DDO had to do because it was failing so badly.
But do go on, if I'm ignorant, correct me.
All I need to do is reply, and you destroy your credibility further yourself with every reply. Check Snarlingwolf's post for details, now I don't need to go down to this level....
But you know what, just for the heck of it
"There are far too many quests,"
That's actually a good thing for the majority. Do a poll if you don't believe
"and 80% of them are junk."
Have you played 100% of them to judge? My experience of 3 years and 8 toons says about 30-40% grinding, 30% alright, and 20-30 damn exciting, and actually new.
"I must have gotten the exact same boar quest no less than 14 times before I quit"
That's a blatant lie, don't even bother proving it (saving you the further loss of face.
" each making up a boring new reason to have me killing the same reskinned boar model. The only good thing I liked about the quest is that they didn't mark what you needed to kill on your map so you'd have to explore a little, but I believe they "fixed" that didn't they?"
No they didn't, they added an option where you can track quest areas (not individual mobs), if you choose to. It's optional, you know.
"The community on the forums is mature, but the community in game it doesn't exist. "
Read all the posts here, and all the comments. The vast majority says the opposite. Including myself. You also mentioned you played the game 5 months after release. Which means, not in the last 3 years. How much entitled you feel to judge the ingame community, not having played for 3 years?
"The entire game focuses on soloing"
A lie.
"so you never meet anyone"
Another lie.
"and the only time ANYONE groups is for a group quest step."
Also not true, but might be true for the majority, I agree on that
"You all grab the quest, run to the instance, kill the boss, then disband without saying a single word usually."
You might do that, never happened to me. Maybe you can try and break the silence yourself?
"And as good as the forum community is now, it used to be much better. Back when LotRO was still a sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, it had, without a doubt, the best online community ever, but Turbine screwed over its loyal fans and most of the fans of MEO left. "
Most of them. Let's not go into how many that was in precise numbers... not sure you get the irony though.
"The lore is good in some places, but in others its simply butchered. That's what happens when you license an IP. MEO was going to stick a lot closer to the lore, but Turbine decided to axe most of their good ideas when they decided to make LotRO a WoW clone. "
Ahh.... the last straw argument... wow clone. Not gonna start beating that horse skeleton anymore, sorry.
"The classes are pretty much your standard affair. Maybe they changed this since last I played, but there was nothing customizable about them. "
They added 2 new classes, but some of the original ones (Captain, LM) were unique themselves. Warden is a whole new experience, never seen before. Again, careful of throwing phrases about then you lack even basic info.
"But yes, the graphics are kind of pretty, too bad everything is instanced"
Not, not even close to the truth.
"and linear so it doesn't even remotely feel like a virtual world. It's very clear you're in a GAME."
Yes, and that's why it is so popular. Again - I don't particulary see either Turbine or LOTRO players to be sad, the only sad person here is you
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I am an old school gamer, my first MMORPG was EQ1 and I can tell you I love LOTRO.
I am a new F2P player in LOTRO and I already purchased the boxed MoM expansion. This game is awesome. The strong points for me:
-Beautiful graphics: The landscapes are absolutely gorgeous.
-Interesting and customizable classes.
-Plenty of quests
-Lore
-Mature community.
This is not a PvP game. For some this could be an issue, but honestly in this case I couldn´t care less. This game is making me revive the feeling of exploration and freedom I had with EQ back in the day.
I am very pleased with LOTRO. It´s a very polished product, and with the F2P transition there is plenty of new players like me and veterans returning making an interesting blend. I can see this game has a great future.
I don't understand how an oldschool gamer can see that in LotRO though. There are far too many quests, and 80% of them are junk. I must have gotten the exact same boar quest no less than 14 times before I quit, each making up a boring new reason to have me killing the same reskinned boar model. The only good thing I liked about the quest is that they didn't mark what you needed to kill on your map so you'd have to explore a little, but I believe they "fixed" that didn't they?
The community on the forums is mature, but the community in game it doesn't exist. The entire game focuses on soloing so you never meet anyone and the only time ANYONE groups is for a group quest step. You all grab the quest, run to the instance, kill the boss, then disband without saying a single word usually. And as good as the forum community is now, it used to be much better. Back when LotRO was still a sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, it had, without a doubt, the best online community ever, but Turbine screwed over its loyal fans and most of the fans of MEO left.
The lore is good in some places, but in others its simply butchered. That's what happens when you license an IP. MEO was going to stick a lot closer to the lore, but Turbine decided to axe most of their good ideas when they decided to make LotRO a WoW clone.
The classes are pretty much your standard affair. Maybe they changed this since last I played, but there was nothing customizable about them.
But yes, the graphics are kind of pretty, too bad everything is instanced and linear so it doesn't even remotely feel like a virtual world. It's very clear you're in a GAME.
But that's my rant. It's still better than WoW, but it could have been so much more.
Is this an anthology of other folks's rants collected from these boards? Not much credibility, if any in there.
"too bad everything is instanced" - if anything, this proves you have absolutely no knowledge of this game.
DB
No, its a summary of MY experience with the game that I followed since 2003 to release. Back when it was still called Middle Earth Online, back when Turbine was still holding conventions for its fans and interacting with its communities, back when LotRO still had a strong mature community. LotRO's story is a sad one. But sure, if you want to write off all my observations with a simple "nuh uh" go right ahead, but I'm not the one losing credibility.
And yes, a ton of stuff is instanced. I found a random cave once while exploring and it wouldn't let me enter, text appeared saying "You cannot enter here without a quest".
To be clear it was called MEO when another company owned it. That company couldn't deliver so Turbine got the rights to the game and then it was called LotRO. Incorrect. There were two versions of MEO. There was an MEO by Sierra that failed in the 90s, couldn't get it out the door. Then it was picked up by Turbine and from 2003 onward, Turbine worked on it. I know this, I remember. I went to their offices in Providence, I have Tshits that say "Middle Earth Online, Turbine Nation." I saw the game being played, I played the alpha. It was there, it existed. At some point less than a year before the original release date, Turbine went into radio silence, then months later announced the game was changing names and focus. Blame the company that had tons of big ideas but obviously no clue on how to actually make a game. Sure I could list of the most amazing MMO ever and then complain some other company ruined the game when I failed to even come close to making the game myself. None of the ideas were huge or far fetched, it was just stylistically a different game. It was sandbox rather than theme park.
I always found LotRO's community to be amazing (so did an article on Massively btw, but I can't possible see why a person as nice and wonderful as you would have a hard time getting people to be nice to you). They were always helpful when I had questions and the chat was always friendly. I always saw tons of people around and never had an issue getting a group at any level while not being a guild. The people in game are friendly, remnants of the old MEO community, but it rarely extends beyond the global chat. Yeah, you can find a group, but (and this is the case with most MMOs today) you usually only group up to do a group step in some quest, then disband and never see them ever again, and rarely is there any socializing or talking with them.
To me you've lost tons of credibility (if you ever had any) with this post. You're observations are so far off base from the majority of people but yet you insist that your experience is the truth.
And yet you have not told me how my observations off base, all you've said is "the community is nice..." something I never denied.
Fixed it for you. Still want to tell me I don't know my stuff? I've been playing LotRO far longer than most people.
I'm wondering the same thing. I tried it around two years ago and for some reason couldn't really get into it. A tried it again about a week ago and found the same problem. It's hard to articulate why since I know it's a solid game but I felt bored after playing it, as if I was just going through the motions of questing.
I'm wondering the same thing. I tried it around two years ago and for some reason couldn't really get into it. A tried it again about a week ago and found the same problem. It's hard to articulate why since I know it's a solid game but I felt bored after playing it, as if I was just going through the motions of questing.
Because quest grinding is boring. No matter how good the quests are, when the ONLY way to level up is questing, you just start going through the motions because you've done the same thing in literally every other modern MMO.
First and foremost, I am a fan of Middle Earth: The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and even the Silmarillion. The lore has a depth and breadth that I haven't seen in another MMO. It isn't just pasted together by some bright designers.
The game play is pretty sorry, for the most part. And they keep dumbing it down. I think some of the class skills, the deeds and such were almost innovative...
Some of the quests are marvelous.
The community rocks and I have made real friends from it.
But I am getting this nagging feeling. First they don't even support the whole idea of moral and defeat. Then they decide to make gear more powerful. Then they raise the level cap and bring in a caster class -- it's a cool design, but they could have made it more lore friendly. Then there is the whole legendary lottery system, which was supposed to be so innovative.
See, what won me and my girlfriend over to this game was the outstanding customer service, which has declined, and the quests like walking with Frodo, which are rare. I can't help but feel that the game has "jumped the shark", but I am in it for life.
Is this an anthology of other folks's rants collected from these boards? Not much credibility, if any in there.
"too bad everything is instanced" - if anything, this proves you have absolutely no knowledge of this game.
DB
No, its a summary of MY experience with the game that I followed since 2003 to release. Back when it was still called Middle Earth Online, back when Turbine was still holding conventions for its fans and interacting with its communities, back when LotRO still had a strong mature community. LotRO's story is a sad one. But sure, if you want to write off all my observations with a simple "nuh uh" go right ahead, but I'm not the one losing credibility.
And yes, a ton of stuff is instanced. I found a random cave once while exploring and it wouldn't let me enter, text appeared saying "You cannot enter here without a quest".
What you have written down is just a clear display of the ignorance you have about LOTRO in its current form. You might have known it during development, that is possible.
But it's story is not a sad one, quite the opposite actually, it's a commercial and critical success as well. YOUR story expecting MEO and not getting it, is the one which is sad. For you
(edited for your edit: yes, there are instances. No, not everything is instanced - pretty far from it, actually.But it's ok. You actually have to play the game to know it.)
DB
I played the game from alpha, to beta, to release, then again 5 months after release. I know enough about the game, you have not addressed a single one of my complaints. And no, LotRO was barely a success, it lost the majority of people following it when it switched from MEO to LotRO and just settled for the people that WoW hadn't grabbed. And yes, any time something great is destroyed for something lesser, and goes unnoticed, its a sad story, and look, now LotRO is going free to play, some DDO had to do because it was failing so badly.
But do go on, if I'm ignorant, correct me.
All I need to do is reply, and you destroy your credibility further yourself with every reply. Check Snarlingwolf's post for details, now I don't need to go down to this level....
But you know what, just for the heck of it
"There are far too many quests,"
That's actually a good thing for the majority. Do a poll if you don't believe
I'd much rather have more than ONE way to level, that way when I do quests, they're actually exciting instead of having them be the primary way to level up, which means, you're going to get a large amount of boring stinkers. Questing was not special because thats ALL you ever did.
"and 80% of them are junk."
Have you played 100% of them to judge? My experience of 3 years and 8 toons says about 30-40% grinding, 30% alright, and 20-30 damn exciting, and actually new.
You better believe I had a lot of time to see almost all the quests in all their forms. Remember how I said I was playing since alpha? The only thing exciting that ever happened was weathertop, and that was simply because of the memories associated with Weathertop. The cutscenes are nice, but I didn't really play an MMO for a single player cut scene quest line, but it did shake of the tedium of the boar quests. I slogged through those trash quests just for the vague hope SOMETHING would happen.
"I must have gotten the exact same boar quest no less than 14 times before I quit"
That's a blatant lie, don't even bother proving it (saving you the further loss of face.
That is not a blatant lie. In every single quest hub there was a new tier of boar to fight. Boar piglet, boar youth, dire boar, tusker, ect ect, all just the same boar and the same quest.
" each making up a boring new reason to have me killing the same reskinned boar model. The only good thing I liked about the quest is that they didn't mark what you needed to kill on your map so you'd have to explore a little, but I believe they "fixed" that didn't they?"
No they didn't, they added an option where you can track quest areas (not individual mobs), if you choose to. It's optional, you know.
Oh good, one of those "if you don't like it don't use it" arguments that never quite pan out.
"The community on the forums is mature, but the community in game it doesn't exist. "
Read all the posts here, and all the comments. The vast majority says the opposite. Including myself. You also mentioned you played the game 5 months after release. Which means, not in the last 3 years. How much entitled you feel to judge the ingame community, not having played for 3 years?
That's the last time I did extensive playing, but I pop in for a few months from time to time. Unless you have real life friends, or a guild, the community doesn't exist. There's nothing that encourages people to interact with eachother. This is a product of how much the game focuses on soloing.
"The entire game focuses on soloing"
A lie.
A truth.
"so you never meet anyone"
Another lie.
Never is an extreme word. How's this, its far more difficult to meet or interact with anyone in THIS game, than in older MMOs.
"and the only time ANYONE groups is for a group quest step."
Also not true, but might be true for the majority, I agree on that
"You all grab the quest, run to the instance, kill the boss, then disband without saying a single word usually."
You might do that, never happened to me. Maybe you can try and break the silence yourself?
Talking to yourself gets sad after a while. I'm an oldschool MMOer in a WoW run world where people don't realize the draw of an MMO isn't the "game" but the people.
"And as good as the forum community is now, it used to be much better. Back when LotRO was still a sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, it had, without a doubt, the best online community ever, but Turbine screwed over its loyal fans and most of the fans of MEO left. "
Most of them. Let's not go into how many that was in precise numbers... not sure you get the irony though.
"The lore is good in some places, but in others its simply butchered. That's what happens when you license an IP. MEO was going to stick a lot closer to the lore, but Turbine decided to axe most of their good ideas when they decided to make LotRO a WoW clone. "
Ahh.... the last straw argument... wow clone. Not gonna start beating that horse skeleton anymore, sorry.
The game focuses on solo questing to level cap, overuses instances, focuses specifically on raiding and the gear grind, and the gameplay mechanics are simple. It is, for all purposes, a WoW clone, compared to the unique gameplay mechanics of Middle Earth Online. It has differences from WoW, which is why I like it better than WoW, but there's no denying what it was modeled after. Perhaps its easier to see for someone who saw the change happen before their eyes during alpha.
"The classes are pretty much your standard affair. Maybe they changed this since last I played, but there was nothing customizable about them. "
They added 2 new classes, but some of the original ones (Captain, LM) were unique themselves. Warden is a whole new experience, never seen before. Again, careful of throwing phrases about then you lack even basic info.
Adding 2 more classes does not make them customizable, and the Captain and LM were remnants of the MEO design when they wanted combat to be based around morale and stamina. That has since vanished with the new classes that totally break the lore. Even LMs were pushing it.
"But yes, the graphics are kind of pretty, too bad everything is instanced"
Not, not even close to the truth.
Then how come I can't enter a dungeon without a quest? How come entire zones (Archet) are instanced?
"and linear so it doesn't even remotely feel like a virtual world. It's very clear you're in a GAME."
Yes, and that's why it is so popular. Again - I don't particulary see either Turbine or LOTRO players to be sad, the only sad person here is you
Not nearly as popular as virtual world games like EQ, DAoC, SWG, and UO were. At least LotRO isn't as arcade like as WoW.
First and foremost, I am a fan of Middle Earth: The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and even the Silmarillion. The lore has a depth and breadth that I haven't seen in another MMO. It isn't just pasted together by some bright designers.
The game play is pretty sorry, for the most part. And they keep dumbing it down. I think some of the class skills, the deeds and such were almost innovative...
Some of the quests are marvelous.
The community rocks and I have made real friends from it.
But I am getting this nagging feeling. First they don't even support the whole idea of moral and defeat. Then they decide to make gear more powerful. Then they raise the level cap and bring in a caster class -- it's a cool design, but they could have made it more lore friendly. Then there is the whole legendary lottery system, which was supposed to be so innovative.
See, what won me and my girlfriend over to this game was the outstanding customer service, which has declined, and the quests like walking with Frodo, which are rare. I can't help but feel that the game has "jumped the shark", but I am in it for life.
I've noticed a clear distinction here. Most of the things people LIKE about the game (the deeds, the morale system) were leftover from the Middle Earth Online design. The things people don't like about the game (the trash quests, the gear grind, loss of focus and lore) came with the new team that got put in charge of it.
I am an old school gamer, my first MMORPG was EQ1 and I can tell you I love LOTRO.
I am a new F2P player in LOTRO and I already purchased the boxed MoM expansion. This game is awesome. The strong points for me:
-Beautiful graphics: The landscapes are absolutely gorgeous.
-Interesting and customizable classes.
-Plenty of quests
-Lore
-Mature community.
This is not a PvP game. For some this could be an issue, but honestly in this case I couldn´t care less. This game is making me revive the feeling of exploration and freedom I had with EQ back in the day.
I am very pleased with LOTRO. It´s a very polished product, and with the F2P transition there is plenty of new players like me and veterans returning making an interesting blend. I can see this game has a great future.
I don't understand how an oldschool gamer can see that in LotRO though. There are far too many quests, and 80% of them are junk. I must have gotten the exact same boar quest no less than 14 times before I quit, each making up a boring new reason to have me killing the same reskinned boar model. The only good thing I liked about the quest is that they didn't mark what you needed to kill on your map so you'd have to explore a little, but I believe they "fixed" that didn't they?
The community on the forums is mature, but the community in game it doesn't exist. The entire game focuses on soloing so you never meet anyone and the only time ANYONE groups is for a group quest step. You all grab the quest, run to the instance, kill the boss, then disband without saying a single word usually. And as good as the forum community is now, it used to be much better. Back when LotRO was still a sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, it had, without a doubt, the best online community ever, but Turbine screwed over its loyal fans and most of the fans of MEO left.
The lore is good in some places, but in others its simply butchered. That's what happens when you license an IP. MEO was going to stick a lot closer to the lore, but Turbine decided to axe most of their good ideas when they decided to make LotRO a WoW clone.
The classes are pretty much your standard affair. Maybe they changed this since last I played, but there was nothing customizable about them.
But yes, the graphics are kind of pretty, too bad everything is instanced and linear so it doesn't even remotely feel like a virtual world. It's very clear you're in a GAME.
But that's my rant. It's still better than WoW, but it could have been so much more.
Is this an anthology of other folks's rants collected from these boards? Not much credibility, if any in there.
"too bad everything is instanced" - if anything, this proves you have absolutely no knowledge of this game.
DB
No, its a summary of MY experience with the game that I followed since 2003 to release. Back when it was still called Middle Earth Online, back when Turbine was still holding conventions for its fans and interacting with its communities, back when LotRO still had a strong mature community. LotRO's story is a sad one. But sure, if you want to write off all my observations with a simple "nuh uh" go right ahead, but I'm not the one losing credibility.
And yes, a ton of stuff is instanced. I found a random cave once while exploring and it wouldn't let me enter, text appeared saying "You cannot enter here without a quest".
To be clear it was called MEO when another company owned it. That company couldn't deliver so Turbine got the rights to the game and then it was called LotRO. Incorrect. There were two versions of MEO. There was an MEO by Sierra that failed in the 90s, couldn't get it out the door. Then it was picked up by Turbine and from 2003 onward, Turbine worked on it. I know this, I remember. I went to their offices in Providence, I have Tshits that say "Middle Earth Online, Turbine Nation." I saw the game being played, I played the alpha. It was there, it existed. At some point less than a year before the original release date, Turbine went into radio silence, then months later announced the game was changing names and focus. Blame the company that had tons of big ideas but obviously no clue on how to actually make a game. Sure I could list of the most amazing MMO ever and then complain some other company ruined the game when I failed to even come close to making the game myself. None of the ideas were huge or far fetched, it was just stylistically a different game. It was sandbox rather than theme park.
I always found LotRO's community to be amazing (so did an article on Massively btw, but I can't possible see why a person as nice and wonderful as you would have a hard time getting people to be nice to you). They were always helpful when I had questions and the chat was always friendly. I always saw tons of people around and never had an issue getting a group at any level while not being a guild. The people in game are friendly, remnants of the old MEO community, but it rarely extends beyond the global chat. Yeah, you can find a group, but (and this is the case with most MMOs today) you usually only group up to do a group step in some quest, then disband and never see them ever again, and rarely is there any socializing or talking with them.
To me you've lost tons of credibility (if you ever had any) with this post. You're observations are so far off base from the majority of people but yet you insist that your experience is the truth.
And yet you have not told me how my observations off base, all you've said is "the community is nice..." something I never denied.
Fixed it for you. Still want to tell me I don't know my stuff? I've been playing LotRO far longer than most people.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
I've noticed a clear distinction here. Most of the things people LIKE about the game (the deeds, the morale system) were leftover from the Middle Earth Online design. The things people don't like about the game (the trash quests, the gear grind, loss of focus and lore) came with the new team that got put in charge of it.
MEO was never anything but a internal design alpha, it was never even a beta let alone a game. The closes Turbine ever came to releasing a MEO game was some game show trailers at trade shows
I have already posted the complete history of MEO from 1998 to it demise in 2005 on another thread complete with links backing up the facts, do I need to repeat it?
but for those interested here are some good links to Sierra's attempt at MEO
I've noticed a clear distinction here. Most of the things people LIKE about the game (the deeds, the morale system) were leftover from the Middle Earth Online design. The things people don't like about the game (the trash quests, the gear grind, loss of focus and lore) came with the new team that got put in charge of it.
MEO was never anything but a internal design alpha, it was never even a beta let alone a game
I ahave already posted the history of MEO on another thread complete with links backing up the facts, do I need to repeat it?
I am completely aware of what Middle Earth Online was. I met the developers, played the game, was part of the alpha, and was part of the most well known kinship for the community. It was indeed a game, else LotRO wouldn't exist. Two seperate games weren't made people, LotRO IS MEO, just after its design got rejigged in the same way the NGE rejigged SWG from sandbox to theme park, exact same concept.
1. The game is based off the books. Not many remember the books, players relate better to the movie version.
2. Clone of what is already out there with the LOTR intellectual property tacked on to the game.
3. The quest grind is horrific. There is so many quests in the game that after the first 250 quests your are begging for it to stop unless you are into boring quest grinds.
4. The world is boring.
5. Monster play is horrific. It's zerg vs zerg batttles in an instanced area.
It is funny, I used to play a Lotro mod from the Neverwinter Nights toolset back in the day. It was a player made game and I tell ya the gamers that made that Lotr mod knew more about what middle earth should be than Turbine. Sad but true.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
I am completely aware of what Middle Earth Online was. I met the developers, played the game, was part of the alpha, and was part of the most well known kinship for the community. It was indeed a game, else LotRO wouldn't exist. Two seperate games weren't made people, LotRO IS MEO, just after its design got rejigged in the same way the NGE rejigged SWG from sandbox to theme park, exact same concept.
Oh I believe you were part of the old Arda Post crowd, and were probably present at the Providence Turbine Fest. In fact if you are who I suspect I bet I have met you in real life, but excuse me if I have my doubts about the alpha claim
I am completely aware of what Middle Earth Online was. I met the developers, played the game, was part of the alpha, and was part of the most well known kinship for the community. It was indeed a game, else LotRO wouldn't exist. Two seperate games weren't made people, LotRO IS MEO, just after its design got rejigged in the same way the NGE rejigged SWG from sandbox to theme park, exact same concept.
Oh I believe you were part of the old Arda Post crowd, and were probably present at the Providence Turbine Fest, but excuse me if I have my doubts about the alpha
Not part of the Arda Post, part of the Elves of Imladris, though we were tied pretty close to the Arda folks. And yes, I went to Turbine Nation 2 times I believe. I still have my Asheron's Call 2 demo disk they were handing out, and I got a beta key from this event. The first Turbine Nation was run by Turbine itself, and they showed off the game, and had a closed room discussion with the developers. After they changed the game to LotRO most of those devs got shuffled into other projects like DDO, and some new guys fresh out of college took over.
The second Turbine Nation (the last one) was organized by LoA and some website, LoA was a member of Elves of Imladris. That was the TN where we actually got to play the game (alpha version of LotRO) and there was a raffle for movie weapon replicas and such. That was the strength of the community in those days, which is why, as good as the LotRO community is compared to WoW, I will never consider it nearly as good as it used to be.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
Welcome to the genre if it is the first time you've heard it. People who don't know all that much about the genre think it is an EQ clone, however it is an AC2 clone. Everything down to the UI is a copy from AC2. Turbine set the trend for modern MMOs with AC2 even though WoW is typically who gets credit for it just like UO wrongfully gets credit for being the longest running MMO. AC2 only didn't survive because of how Microsoft managed it. They rushed it out the door which led to severe bugs/balance issues (including no chat for a month or two) which killed the game. They finally had all those fixed before it closed down but the damage was done. There is a reason why there are still people out there that want AC2 back, it was a big change for the day and age it was created.
The market isn't at an all time low, the types of games you personally enjoy in the MMO world is at an all time low. There is a difference. The market, the number of games, and the number of companies that exist in the MMO world is at an all time high.
People have many different tastes, and you clearly have yours. But to then base assumptions on those is wrong. To assume the MMO industry is at an all time low because your personal tastes aren't being recognized is wrong. To assume LotRO's success is only due to there being so few games out there you like, therefore the competition must not exist, is wrong.
WoW, LotRO, EvE, Aion all had numbers that exceeded the old high levels that games like EQ reached. You try to say other wise because, once again, you just don't like the style of MMOs that are popular right now. That is fine, but don't try to twist the facts just because you don't like a certain playstyle.
I am completely aware of what Middle Earth Online was. I met the developers, played the game, was part of the alpha, and was part of the most well known kinship for the community. It was indeed a game, else LotRO wouldn't exist. Two seperate games weren't made people, LotRO IS MEO, just after its design got rejigged in the same way the NGE rejigged SWG from sandbox to theme park, exact same concept.
Oh I believe you were part of the old Arda Post crowd, and were probably present at the Providence Turbine Fest, but excuse me if I have my doubts about the alpha
Not part of the Arda Post, part of the Elves of Imladris, though we were tied pretty close to the Arda folks. And yes, I went to Turbine Nation 2 times I believe. I still have my Asheron's Call 2 demo disk they were handing out, and I got a beta key from this event. The first Turbine Nation was run by Turbine itself, and they showed off the game, and had a closed room discussion with the developers. After they changed the game to LotRO most of those devs got shuffled into other projects like DDO, and some new guys fresh out of college took over.
The second Turbine Nation (the last one) was organized by LoA and some website, LoA was a member of Elves of Imladris. That was the TN where we actually got to play the game (alpha version of LotRO) and there was a raffle for movie weapon replicas and such. That was the strength of the community in those days, which is why, as good as the LotRO community is compared to WoW, I will never consider it nearly as good as it used to be.
only thing I miss about MEO is arguing with you guys on the forums, LoA, Futsie, Morth when he wasn't busy getting himself banned, EP who I argued with from SWG beta days. Love a good debate, and when I turn out to be right it is even better. I told you guys way back in 05 that your vision of a middle earth sim would never get published
LoTRO turned out to be almost the game I envisioned, only thing missing was DAoC style RvR
I dont care to get into argumentative opinionated posts. But this "instancing" topic is full of hooey from many angles.
Archet is not instanced once you leave the tutorial.
We have at least 2 and I think 3 now dungeons in the Great Barrows that are instanced but free to enter without any quests. there is one instance in Lone Lands that is free to enter. GA is free to enter. Fornost instance needs no quests. I cant remember the names of, but I remember at least 3 Angmar instances that need no prerequisite. Eregion has 2 that I remember.
Misinformation is running rather wild im afraid.
I just thought of 3 open dungeons in Thorins Gate, and then theres Sarnor, I think there is but cant remember of one open dungeon in the Shire. I dont have much playtime in trollshaws or Evindim, but remember one open dungeon in Evendim.
I dont care to get into argumentative opinionated posts. But this "instancing" topic is full of hooey from many angles.
Archet is not instanced once you leave the tutorial.
We have at least 2 and I think 3 now dungeons in the Great Barrows that are instanced but free to enter without any quests. there is one instance in Lone Lands that is free to enter. GA is free to enter. Fornost instance needs no quests. I cant remember the names of, but I remember at least 3 Angmar instances that need no prerequisite. Eregion has 2 that I remember.
Misinformation is running rather wild im afraid.
You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest.
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Jackdog
Originally posted by Garvon3
I am completely aware of what Middle Earth Online was. I met the developers, played the game, was part of the alpha, and was part of the most well known kinship for the community. It was indeed a game, else LotRO wouldn't exist. Two seperate games weren't made people, LotRO IS MEO, just after its design got rejigged in the same way the NGE rejigged SWG from sandbox to theme park, exact same concept.
Oh I believe you were part of the old Arda Post crowd, and were probably present at the Providence Turbine Fest, but excuse me if I have my doubts about the alpha
Not part of the Arda Post, part of the Elves of Imladris, though we were tied pretty close to the Arda folks. And yes, I went to Turbine Nation 2 times I believe. I still have my Asheron's Call 2 demo disk they were handing out, and I got a beta key from this event. The first Turbine Nation was run by Turbine itself, and they showed off the game, and had a closed room discussion with the developers. After they changed the game to LotRO most of those devs got shuffled into other projects like DDO, and some new guys fresh out of college took over.
The second Turbine Nation (the last one) was organized by LoA and some website, LoA was a member of Elves of Imladris. That was the TN where we actually got to play the game (alpha version of LotRO) and there was a raffle for movie weapon replicas and such. That was the strength of the community in those days, which is why, as good as the LotRO community is compared to WoW, I will never consider it nearly as good as it used to be.
only thing I miss about MEO is arguing with you guys on the forums, LoA, Futsie, Morth when he wasn't busy getting himself banned, EP who I argued with from SWG beta days. Love a good debate, and when I turn out to be right it is even better. I told you guys way back in 05 that your vision of a middle earth sim would never get published
LoTRO turned out to be almost the game I envisioned, only thing missing was DAoC style RvR
There was nothing wrong enough with the initial MEO design to make you think that. In fact, many aspects of LotRO still hold the old MEO design, and where it deviates from that old MEO design seems to be where people have problems with it (the insanely boring quest grind, the item grind)
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
Welcome to the genre if it is the first time you've heard it. People who don't know all that much about the genre think it is an EQ clone, however it is an AC2 clone. Everything down to the UI is a copy from AC2. Turbine set the trend for modern MMOs with AC2 even though WoW is typically who gets credit for it just like UO wrongfully gets credit for being the longest running MMO. AC2 only didn't survive because of how Microsoft managed it. They rushed it out the door which led to severe bugs/balance issues (including no chat for a month or two) which killed the game. They finally had all those fixed before it closed down but the damage was done. There is a reason why there are still people out there that want AC2 back, it was a big change for the day and age it was created.
I'm sorry but this I just cannot buy. The lead developers from WoW were all hardcore EQ1 raider veterans, and it shows. Not nearly enough people played AC2 to think that thats where the ideas were lifted from. It may share those ideas, but I doubt the inspiration was drawn directly from AC2.
The market isn't at an all time low, the types of games you personally enjoy in the MMO world is at an all time low. There is a difference. The market, the number of games, and the number of companies that exist in the MMO world is at an all time high.
And the number of games that are successful? In 2003 you had Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, all doing well, all having subs in the 200k+ mark(save maybe Ultima). Modern day you have... WoW aaand maybe LotRO (though thats debatable since it had to go FTP to keep going). AoC bombed, Aion bombed, STO bombed, Vanguard bombed, WAR bombed, in fact, I think the only two games gaining subscribers and expanding their dev team is Darkfall and Eve.
WoW, LotRO, EvE, Aion all had numbers that exceeded the old high levels that games like EQ reached. Sorry, but at its height, LotRO never reached 600k of EQ. It was closer to 200k You try to say other wise because, once again, you just don't like the style of MMOs that are popular right now. That is fine, but don't try to twist the facts just because you don't like a certain playstyle.
There was nothing wrong enough with the initial MEO design to make you think that. In fact, many aspects of LotRO still hold the old MEO design, and where it deviates from that old MEO design seems to be where people have problems with it (the insanely boring quest grind, the item grind)
umm there never was a MEO game, just a design alpha
I vividly recall such topics being QQ'ed over by the AP crowd
drarfs and Elves could not be in same same kinship
no heavy armor, the lore does not support it
it should take several days of real time to go from Hobbiton to Bree because it did in the books
no buff effects on swords armor jewlery etc
no mobs other than natural wildlife in the Shire
no remote healing effects, minnies would heal afterward using herb packs
hobbits could be burglars only
just a few of the ideas the AP/ Moriquendi/Elves of the Imladris championed as I recall
"You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest." Garvin3
And you say things in broad brush general terms and are misleading. There are free to enter dungeons, and instances. There are also quest only dungeons and instances. Opinion is ruling the day.
Comments
I played the game from alpha, to beta, to release, then again 5 months after release. I know enough about the game, you have not addressed a single one of my complaints. And no, LotRO was barely a success, it lost the majority of people following it when it switched from MEO to LotRO and just settled for the people that WoW hadn't grabbed. And yes, any time something great is destroyed for something lesser, and goes unnoticed, its a sad story, and look, now LotRO is going free to play, some DDO had to do because it was failing so badly.
But do go on, if I'm ignorant, correct me. <rolls eyes>
To be clear it was called MEO when another company owned it. That company couldn't deliver so Turbine got the rights to the game and then it was called LotRO. Blame the company that had tons of big ideas but obviously no clue on how to actually make a game. Sure I could list of the most amazing MMO ever and then complain some other company ruined the game when I failed to even come close to making the game myself.
I always found LotRO's community to be amazing (so did an article on Massively btw, but I can't possible see why a person as nice and wonderful as you would have a hard time getting people to be nice to you). They were always helpful when I had questions and the chat was always friendly. I always saw tons of people around and never had an issue getting a group at any level while not being a guild.
To me you've lost tons of credibility (if you ever had any) with this post. You're observations are so far off base from the majority of people but yet you insist that your experience is the truth.
All I need to do is reply, and you destroy your credibility further yourself with every reply. Check Snarlingwolf's post for details, now I don't need to go down to this level....
But you know what, just for the heck of it
"There are far too many quests,"
That's actually a good thing for the majority. Do a poll if you don't believe
"and 80% of them are junk."
Have you played 100% of them to judge? My experience of 3 years and 8 toons says about 30-40% grinding, 30% alright, and 20-30 damn exciting, and actually new.
"I must have gotten the exact same boar quest no less than 14 times before I quit"
That's a blatant lie, don't even bother proving it (saving you the further loss of face.
" each making up a boring new reason to have me killing the same reskinned boar model. The only good thing I liked about the quest is that they didn't mark what you needed to kill on your map so you'd have to explore a little, but I believe they "fixed" that didn't they?"
No they didn't, they added an option where you can track quest areas (not individual mobs), if you choose to. It's optional, you know.
"The community on the forums is mature, but the community in game it doesn't exist. "
Read all the posts here, and all the comments. The vast majority says the opposite. Including myself. You also mentioned you played the game 5 months after release. Which means, not in the last 3 years. How much entitled you feel to judge the ingame community, not having played for 3 years?
"The entire game focuses on soloing"
A lie.
"so you never meet anyone"
Another lie.
"and the only time ANYONE groups is for a group quest step."
Also not true, but might be true for the majority, I agree on that
"You all grab the quest, run to the instance, kill the boss, then disband without saying a single word usually."
You might do that, never happened to me. Maybe you can try and break the silence yourself?
"And as good as the forum community is now, it used to be much better. Back when LotRO was still a sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, it had, without a doubt, the best online community ever, but Turbine screwed over its loyal fans and most of the fans of MEO left. "
Most of them. Let's not go into how many that was in precise numbers...
not sure you get the irony though.
"The lore is good in some places, but in others its simply butchered. That's what happens when you license an IP. MEO was going to stick a lot closer to the lore, but Turbine decided to axe most of their good ideas when they decided to make LotRO a WoW clone. "
Ahh.... the last straw argument... wow clone. Not gonna start beating that horse skeleton anymore, sorry.
"The classes are pretty much your standard affair. Maybe they changed this since last I played, but there was nothing customizable about them. "
They added 2 new classes, but some of the original ones (Captain, LM) were unique themselves. Warden is a whole new experience, never seen before. Again, careful of throwing phrases about then you lack even basic info.
"But yes, the graphics are kind of pretty, too bad everything is instanced"
Not, not even close to the truth.
"and linear so it doesn't even remotely feel like a virtual world. It's very clear you're in a GAME."
Yes, and that's why it is so popular. Again - I don't particulary see either Turbine or LOTRO players to be sad, the only sad person here is you
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Fixed it for you. Still want to tell me I don't know my stuff? I've been playing LotRO far longer than most people.
I'm wondering the same thing. I tried it around two years ago and for some reason couldn't really get into it. A tried it again about a week ago and found the same problem. It's hard to articulate why since I know it's a solid game but I felt bored after playing it, as if I was just going through the motions of questing.
Because quest grinding is boring. No matter how good the quests are, when the ONLY way to level up is questing, you just start going through the motions because you've done the same thing in literally every other modern MMO.
First and foremost, I am a fan of Middle Earth: The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and even the Silmarillion. The lore has a depth and breadth that I haven't seen in another MMO. It isn't just pasted together by some bright designers.
The game play is pretty sorry, for the most part. And they keep dumbing it down. I think some of the class skills, the deeds and such were almost innovative...
Some of the quests are marvelous.
The community rocks and I have made real friends from it.
But I am getting this nagging feeling. First they don't even support the whole idea of moral and defeat. Then they decide to make gear more powerful. Then they raise the level cap and bring in a caster class -- it's a cool design, but they could have made it more lore friendly. Then there is the whole legendary lottery system, which was supposed to be so innovative.
See, what won me and my girlfriend over to this game was the outstanding customer service, which has declined, and the quests like walking with Frodo, which are rare. I can't help but feel that the game has "jumped the shark", but I am in it for life.
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
I've noticed a clear distinction here. Most of the things people LIKE about the game (the deeds, the morale system) were leftover from the Middle Earth Online design. The things people don't like about the game (the trash quests, the gear grind, loss of focus and lore) came with the new team that got put in charge of it.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
MEO was never anything but a internal design alpha, it was never even a beta let alone a game. The closes Turbine ever came to releasing a MEO game was some game show trailers at trade shows
I have already posted the complete history of MEO from 1998 to it demise in 2005 on another thread complete with links backing up the facts, do I need to repeat it?
but for those interested here are some good links to Sierra's attempt at MEO
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/795/795002p1.html
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/795/795471p1.html
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/797/797829p1.html
I miss DAoC
Besides Moria, you are able to run through zones without any instancing including Archet.
http://mmofocus.se
I am completely aware of what Middle Earth Online was. I met the developers, played the game, was part of the alpha, and was part of the most well known kinship for the community. It was indeed a game, else LotRO wouldn't exist. Two seperate games weren't made people, LotRO IS MEO, just after its design got rejigged in the same way the NGE rejigged SWG from sandbox to theme park, exact same concept.
The problem is ...
1. The game is based off the books. Not many remember the books, players relate better to the movie version.
2. Clone of what is already out there with the LOTR intellectual property tacked on to the game.
3. The quest grind is horrific. There is so many quests in the game that after the first 250 quests your are begging for it to stop unless you are into boring quest grinds.
4. The world is boring.
5. Monster play is horrific. It's zerg vs zerg batttles in an instanced area.
It is funny, I used to play a Lotro mod from the Neverwinter Nights toolset back in the day. It was a player made game and I tell ya the gamers that made that Lotr mod knew more about what middle earth should be than Turbine. Sad but true.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
But not dungeons, which is pretty terrible.
Oh I believe you were part of the old Arda Post crowd, and were probably present at the Providence Turbine Fest. In fact if you are who I suspect I bet I have met you in real life, but excuse me if I have my doubts about the alpha claim
I miss DAoC
Not part of the Arda Post, part of the Elves of Imladris, though we were tied pretty close to the Arda folks. And yes, I went to Turbine Nation 2 times I believe. I still have my Asheron's Call 2 demo disk they were handing out, and I got a beta key from this event. The first Turbine Nation was run by Turbine itself, and they showed off the game, and had a closed room discussion with the developers. After they changed the game to LotRO most of those devs got shuffled into other projects like DDO, and some new guys fresh out of college took over.
The second Turbine Nation (the last one) was organized by LoA and some website, LoA was a member of Elves of Imladris. That was the TN where we actually got to play the game (alpha version of LotRO) and there was a raffle for movie weapon replicas and such. That was the strength of the community in those days, which is why, as good as the LotRO community is compared to WoW, I will never consider it nearly as good as it used to be.
Welcome to the genre if it is the first time you've heard it. People who don't know all that much about the genre think it is an EQ clone, however it is an AC2 clone. Everything down to the UI is a copy from AC2. Turbine set the trend for modern MMOs with AC2 even though WoW is typically who gets credit for it just like UO wrongfully gets credit for being the longest running MMO. AC2 only didn't survive because of how Microsoft managed it. They rushed it out the door which led to severe bugs/balance issues (including no chat for a month or two) which killed the game. They finally had all those fixed before it closed down but the damage was done. There is a reason why there are still people out there that want AC2 back, it was a big change for the day and age it was created.
The market isn't at an all time low, the types of games you personally enjoy in the MMO world is at an all time low. There is a difference. The market, the number of games, and the number of companies that exist in the MMO world is at an all time high.
People have many different tastes, and you clearly have yours. But to then base assumptions on those is wrong. To assume the MMO industry is at an all time low because your personal tastes aren't being recognized is wrong. To assume LotRO's success is only due to there being so few games out there you like, therefore the competition must not exist, is wrong.
WoW, LotRO, EvE, Aion all had numbers that exceeded the old high levels that games like EQ reached. You try to say other wise because, once again, you just don't like the style of MMOs that are popular right now. That is fine, but don't try to twist the facts just because you don't like a certain playstyle.
only thing I miss about MEO is arguing with you guys on the forums, LoA, Futsie, Morth when he wasn't busy getting himself banned, EP who I argued with from SWG beta days. Love a good debate, and when I turn out to be right it is even better. I told you guys way back in 05 that your vision of a middle earth sim would never get published
LoTRO turned out to be almost the game I envisioned, only thing missing was DAoC style RvR
I miss DAoC
I dont care to get into argumentative opinionated posts. But this "instancing" topic is full of hooey from many angles.
Archet is not instanced once you leave the tutorial.
We have at least 2 and I think 3 now dungeons in the Great Barrows that are instanced but free to enter without any quests. there is one instance in Lone Lands that is free to enter. GA is free to enter. Fornost instance needs no quests. I cant remember the names of, but I remember at least 3 Angmar instances that need no prerequisite. Eregion has 2 that I remember.
Misinformation is running rather wild im afraid.
I just thought of 3 open dungeons in Thorins Gate, and then theres Sarnor, I think there is but cant remember of one open dungeon in the Shire. I dont have much playtime in trollshaws or Evindim, but remember one open dungeon in Evendim.
You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest.
umm there never was a MEO game, just a design alpha
I vividly recall such topics being QQ'ed over by the AP crowd
drarfs and Elves could not be in same same kinship
no heavy armor, the lore does not support it
it should take several days of real time to go from Hobbiton to Bree because it did in the books
no buff effects on swords armor jewlery etc
no mobs other than natural wildlife in the Shire
no remote healing effects, minnies would heal afterward using herb packs
hobbits could be burglars only
just a few of the ideas the AP/ Moriquendi/Elves of the Imladris championed as I recall
I miss DAoC
"You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest." Garvin3
And you say things in broad brush general terms and are misleading. There are free to enter dungeons, and instances. There are also quest only dungeons and instances. Opinion is ruling the day.