Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
A Rant from a Fan Girl
maskedtears
Member UncommonPosts: 345
So I haven't blowing up the forums lately with my usual vigor because I've been in-game playing, or packing because I'm moving. But I have been happily lurking, but refrained on saying anything that would cause me to sit down for hours on end playing the back and forth game.
I guess I never really noticed but there seems to be a white elephant in the room. People who don't like the game calling those who like the game elitist and fanbois, and people who like the game calling the people who hate it idiots, wowtards, etc.
While having a conversation with a friend via msn im he asked me why the hell am I playing FFXIV and that he had heard all this bad stuff about it. And so why I explained why those things didn't bother me he brought up the fact that I hadn't once mentioned why I liked the game. I replied that that wasn't what he asked me, and he said it was implied. See THAT confuses.
Are all of these threads with all this polarizing titles really for the express purpose of getting fans to say what they like? In my opinion no. They are just for people to express their opinions. However I did think about it realized that I never felt the need to ask any of my friends to play with me because I knew they wouldn't like it. For various reasons, because I've played with them and know their style. I know which of my friends value looks, which one loves story, which ones love to roleplay. But regardless I don't ask people to play the game. I'm perfectly fine making new friends like I have been in FFXIV and in doing so I don't mention what I like about the game because I personally don't care whether other people play or not.
Some people may say, "Well don't you want your game to do well?" My answer is, define well? As long as the servers are up, I'll play, and I'll find people to play with. I don't WANT to play with a million other people. And it has nothing to do with elitism it just has to do with the fact that I'm perfectly fine with the people that are there currently and I can deal with the game as it is. If you don't like it, that's FINE, I don't hate you, I'm not going to scream at you, curse at you, etc. But don't expect me to sit there and beg and plead with you about why you should play the game. I like it for the reasons I like it. You don't like it for the reasons you don't like it.
If you come up to me and we talk about... lets say fruit and I say I LOVE apples. And you tell me you don't like them. Why would I try convincing you to eat them? I'm eating them and enjoying them, you not enjoying them has nothing to do with me, so I frankly don't care. I'm not offended by your dislike of my beloved fruit. I figure that if someone says they don't like something then they have thought long and hard about their incentives and have come to that conclusion. Therefore if they are using sound logic, me liking it isn't going to change their mind.
I love this game, FFXIV, a lot. I enjoy it. If I like the game and you don't, please explain to me why I need to explain to you why I like it? Just because some people are really free with giving their opinions doesn't mean the rest of us honestly care. I don't remember being specifically asked for my opinion nor do I remember asking for yours.
I never feel inclined to politely answer a question when I feel that it isn't being asked seriously or it's being asked in an uncalled for and rude way.
I've never heard a FFXIV fan say that the game has NO problems, if that was the case we wouldn't bother putting up external patches. However, as fans we accept the game with it's flaws and trust that the company will work things out with the best interests of the community in mind. Why do I believe that? Because it's in their best business interests to do so. Is it possible that they won't? Of course it is but you'll never hear me say that when someone is backing me into a corner, because honestly at that point I don't feel the need to explain jack to anyone.
I don't think that how I feel is everyone and their mother's business. But I do feel the need to defend the game from incorrect information. I also feel the need to speak up when a legitimate thread gets derailed by hate. If it starts out angry,not much I can do about it.
There is no need to kick a hornets nest into a nice game of tag on the other side of the field just because you don't like the fact that they are playing tag and you want them to play hop scotch with you. Because they WILL hate you for it.
P.S. probably made a bunch of errors in there but whatever. Also this is obviously my feelings and mine alone. If other fans agree with me, lovely, if they don't, lovely. Honestly I don't see any possible way to derail this thread so knock yourselves out. FFA Forum PVP Go!
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
I didn't state the whole conversation because I don't remember word for word but when he asked me why are you playing it, it wasn't a question, it was a statement. Because he didn't let me answer until after he said some other things. And when I did answer the question he didn't listen or reply to what I had said, so.... it proved my point when I had even told him that it's not like he really cares whether I'm enjoying it or not. He was trying to yank my chain and I wasn't buying it therefore he asked me what I liked and I still didn't take the bait. I didn't want to go into the delicacies of the context etc, because I didn't want either of us looking like jerks and it is easier to just leave that alone.
EXAMPLES OF WHAT I AM SAYING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
Originally posted by Furor
how the hell do you find this fun??? i dont understand at all.
I don't find this a serious question. Therefore I wouldn't ever feel inclined to respond to it, because it would just lead to a I'm right, no I'm right, conversation.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Comments
I think it has more to do with how "political" people have become. They try and polarize the environment they are around to figure out where everyone stands then points out the right subjects to make their view better.
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
Sadly we all know how great this has worked for Dems and Repubs.
Everyone feels the need to sensationalize everything. It's almost as if a plain glass of water isn't good enough anymore... =(
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
So basically you made a page long post about a game you like saying how you don't feel it is necessary to make posts about why you like a game?
This place you are posting on is called a forum. A forum is a place where people can discuss things, in this case games. Just like with politics, religion, or anything else in the world, games have people on both sides of the argument. So some people discuss why they like it, and others discuss why they don't. That is the exact purpose of a forum system.
Why do you involve yourself in forums at all if you don't like the back and forthing of discussion which is why forums exist? It makes no sense.
And for the record your friend's question wasn't confusing at all. He asked "Why are you playing it?" and you never said why, and then you were confused that he wanted you to say why???
No the threads on these forums where people say they don't like the game are not trying to get people to say why they like it unless they ask "Why do you play it?" or "Why do you like it?" etc. They are posting their feeling for the sole purpose of having a discussion.
Pretty much. Too many people attempting to force opinions onto others. Too worried about what others think of the game. If it's fun, play it. If it's not, don't. Done deal.
Normally, people would want to know why YOU like the game because they want to know your views on what you like about it. Just because you like something doesn't mean I will, but if I know you, or if I've played with you in a game before, and we both had fun, perhaps you telling me why you liked a game might help me change my mind.
I have heard mostly bad things about FFXIV, and I don't plan on playing it, not necessarily because of the bad things I've heard, but because FFXI wasn't really my bag and I just don't know enough about XIV to make a good decision. I wanted to try it in open beta, but didn't have a chance. Needless to say, giving some good points on what fans really like about the game, or maybe, you in particular wouldn't hurt. When I like something, I have no qualms in telling people about it and why. I've written a review or two over games I like, and games I don't, and I list my opinions. Whether people want to listen to them or not, I can't be held accountable for that. Whether it puts them off the game, or makes them want to try it, thats entirely their choice.
SO, IF I don't like the game, perhaps I'm just not seeing things the way you see it, maybe you telling me why you like it, might change my mind on the fun aspects of the game. Maybe you know something I don't? Maybe I might try it again, and play *with* you so you can show me these aspects. In short, everyone is playing a game to have fun, and sometimes the fun isn't topical, sometimes it might not be able to be seen. Then again sometimes it might be a difference in opinion. I don't see why it you should be so critical of those that are wanting to know though.
I wonder if these people who constantly make such enormous efforts to spread negativity and try so hard that others hate the game because they hate it, do they act same way in real life too? or its just anonymity of internet which encourages them? do they force their friends and families into hating certain kid of music or movies because they themselves dislike it? i hardly doubt so. It would be annoying as hell.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Actually, I wouldn't think that would be uncommon. Some people may just do that, or only trying to associate with those with very similar ideas without deviation. I could only stand to guess though, but I can't see how someone could be a closet "hater" online but be very open minded in the real world.
He asked you WHY you're playing the game first, judging by what you've told me thus far in your long speach I don't have time to read. Why you're playing the game = what makes the game so fun, to me. You didn't seem to answer his first question, and you replied to his rant/trolling. That is all.
Yup...
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
"Why do you involve yourself in forums at all if you don't like the back and forthing of discussion which is why forums exist? It makes no sense."
Oh come on, show me one recent FFXIV complaint thread where it's a discussion. The whole point she's trying to get across is people aren't even stating opinions as opinions or discussing. One person makes a negative thread, then goes around to everyone else's thread and tells people who enjoy the game why they shouldn't.
The following is a depiction of every current FFXIV thread.
Poster 1: I like the combat in FFXIV.
Poster 2: Well, you shouldn't, because it sucks and is slow.
poster 1: No it's not, it's way better than WoW's.
Poster 2: Nah it sucks, it's too slow.
The way you're saying it is and the way it should be, but isn't.
Poster 1: I like the combat in FFXIV
Poster 2: I found it a little too slow for my tastes.
Poster 1: It's not as slow once you pick up on the chain and combo attacks.
There is no discussion, it's just one person trying to force their views onto everyone else and then the opposing side attempting to do the same in the opposite direction. The threads don't go anywhere. The first and second post repeat for infinity.
Good luck and be happy on ur new home
You still have not explained why you like FFXIV or even you find fault besides chatting about apple :P But in truth I don't know alot about FFXIV and any info that gives insight is very helpful if its balanced. I'm a raider so trying too find a good review is difficult. Better the review of like or dislike the better I can decide if I should put time into this mmo. Thats whats of value is time and a bit of money for the game. But some people but the game and don't like it some buy the game and 2 weeks later don't like the game and some spend 1 year and finally decide they don't like the game. So before you put that expense in called (Time) we all want both sides of the coin.
I'll post in.... hmm purplely pink.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I don't try to ever change my friends minds unless they ask me to. I'm a very opinionated person and will beat the dead horse until it becomes glue. I know where my limits are, and unless I feel that someone is going to take my opinion seriously about their opinion, I'm not going to waste my time. And why should I? When I could be enjoying myself playing, or at least on the forums help people figure out the problems they are having and ACTUALLY want to fix so they can enjoy it.
Haha just moving into the dorms for the new school year. But thank you very much! I'm so sad because my room mate went to France for a year so I have to get a new room mate.
Are you asking me for my opinion? Or just giving an opinion on why I should give an opinion?
I could tell you how I feel about the game, however I wouldn't call it a review. I usually play a game in it's released state for 2 weeks before telling people how I feel even when asked.
If I decide during beta that I don't like a game, I don't say anything about it. And I will RARELY mention that I don't like the game unless badgered about it. I'm a very question specific person.
If you want me to say anything about the game and want how I know I will feel about something period, you won't get many answers. If you want to ask me about how I feel right now, go ahead. I will answer as completely as I can.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
To sum it up for you very briefly: On a PUBLIC forum you do not get to decide what people want to discuss. You can choose to participate or not and that is it. If someone says they like something, everyone else is 100% justified to say they don't like it. Simply because YOU personally want to have very defined discussion on what is allowed and what is not will never make it be the case. With a public forum everyone is entitled to say anything they want that doesn't break the rules, meaning everytime someone says they like FFXIV someone else can pop up and say they don't like it and that is allowed and perfectly fine.
To go back on something my original post said, I don't think forums is a place for you. You obviously don't like the format and/or hearing what other people want to say so you would probably be a happier person if you just didn't get involved in forums at all.
There are times where I will be involved in a discussion and I tire of it or feel it is going nowhere and I do the logical thing, move on. I let that discussion die off and get involved in something else. I don't make a long post on why I feel such discussions shouldn't happen and try to reinvent the public forum system to fit my needs.
Its hard explaining to people why you don't have to explain anything to them in the first place.
This part here is why I get involved in the debates. You want to defend against overly negative ciriticism, other people want to defend against overly positive reviews. I tend to the side against overly positive reviews, basically what looks like blind fanboism because people read reviews and then decide whether to buy a game. Most of the time however, It basically boils bown to an armsrace of opinion because someone gets too extreme, or too insulting provoking others to jump in.
I tend to take offense just as much at the people who post they hate the game and everyone should stay away as well as the ones that claim FFXIV is the best game with the best launch ever. Both seem utterely rediculous to me, and both sides are more than happy to leap in and say why.
This game managed to irk me more than others because I really like some of the systems they chose to use, so I SHOULD like this game, and yet its unfinished enough, with enough flaws that when people tell ME that its perfect it is going to cause me to tell them exactly why its not, raging ensues.
Posts like these are why I tend to get involved, blatantly one sided, crying vicitimization in the worst sort of blatant exagerating. Both sides are extremely opinionated because this game IS different. Noones twisting anyone's arm to defend it or hate on it, yet people are jumping out of the basement to do it.
I hate you. You smell and your opinions suck. I'm smarter than you, thus any possible retort made by you is pointless as it will not measure up to my level of awesomeness. You can defend yourself, but you'll be wrong, because I'm correct. And once again, smarter than you.
I've just summed up the FFXIV part of MMORPG. Where is the discussion in that? In the end I want to hear your response to her question.
-"Again I say, a discussion on what? If you say you hate pink, what do you want me to say? That's what I'm confused about. "
Well, for example, look at your little discussion thread...
People will have negative complaints about the game. ALL people won't like the same game. In your "discussion" you bring up WoW and say this game is better in combat. You have just brought the wrath of all the people that play WoW.
I've noticed that the people who like the game have brought an elitist attitude to the discussion. If people don't like the UI, then they are dumb for not trying to figure it out. If people don't like the slow combat, it's because they are WoW players who refuse to accept different combat styles.
If people can discuss a game and what they like about it without the need to downplay another game, then I think the conversations would go a bit better. But you, even in your example, degrade WoW. That is not a good selling point for the game you like.
People always do the popular thing and their friends follow most of the time.
Uh huh. Now tell me how what you just said changes that fact that 8/10 threads about FFXIV here in some shape or form compare or bring up WoW? What you said in your second paragraph is how almost every single FFXIV complain or praise thread goes, which is what I said. And your third paragraph is pretty much exactly what I said. I don't see what point you're trying to make that is different from the one I stated above your post.
There is no discussion, it just comes down to elitist attitudes bashing people's opinions because they think their own is more correct.
I would agree that in most cases it's pointless to attempt convincing someone, on these boards particularly, that their view of a particular title is incorrect or invalid. When it comes to games, I usually ask myself if it's really even worth it, or if people are just arguing for the sake of arguing. While debate is a great hobby, most of it is pretty mindless and subjective here, and alot of credibility goes out the window when people keep referring to these separate groups, fanbois and trolls, as if they're the only two that exist.
As for why people try to convince others that their opinion is better, more educated, or founded on evidence: most of that boils down to wanting to see more games of a specific category that they enjoy. I want more sandbox games, for example, so I don't mind a friendly debate as to the benefits of either system, and how they relate to one another. It's important that I let people know how I feel, as anyone else with a strong passion for games should, because its a means to be heard, either by the community here, by developers on other boards, or by the people who just skim through them. It's okay that other players have different opinions. We don't have to label them in black and white, and it's a pretty frequent occurrence to see forum posters trying to discredit others by attempting to place them on one side of the argument or the other.
That being said, FFXIV isn't for me. I'm not going to waste my time trying to tell people why I think their opinion is wrong, but rather try to tell them why I feel the way I do about the game, and what particular elements made me feel that way (if I were to post my personal review or preview of the game). Discussion is a great tool to help us see another's perspective, but we actually have to try to project ourselves into a different state of mind to fully understand why someone else feels the way they do. What usually happens around here is a stubborn stand off, name calling, and personal attacks, which leads to nothing productive for either party. I know I've been guilty of this before, but that's why we make mistakes: so we can learn from them.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Believe it or not one person saying they hate pink and another person saying they like it is also the definition of a discussion. It is as simple as that.
You want a DEBATE where people argue two different views on a topic, the reasoning behind it, while trying to convince the other poster/audience. A DISCUSSION is any form of comments back and forth between two people, it does not have to have depth or be a debate. A DEBATE is simply a different form of discussion.
Seeing that a forum is a place for discussions, that means there does not have to be any extra context in the conversation. It can, for all intents and purposes, be simply "I like X" "I dislike X". Guess what, you just had a discussion.
One of the biggest issues that happens on this site, in all forms of posts, is people confusing the definition of words. They decide that to them, for example, a discussion is a deep conversation with multiple angles and topics with factual information used to back up the different opinions. However, that is not the actual definition, just their interpretted one, and thus the confusion happens. Just look at the term MMO. Everyone has a slightly different thought on what the definition is for that term, and so the conversations tend to get stuck on that point instead of going any further.
So if you say you'd rather have meaningful debates on this site, that would be a wholly different topic. But both yourself, and the OP, focused on the term discussion and do not grasp the fact that even the simplest comments back and forth on the same topic makes for a discussion.
The point I'm trying to make is that you, yourself, brought another game into the argument and state that some mechanics are better than that game. A big NO NO when trying to prove your point. Just state why you like the game. You don't have to say the other person is stupid or a WoW player for not liking it.
I don't remember expressing a problem with the topic, I have a problem with people automatically expecting to hear the other side of the story when it wasn't asked for. And I obviously don't have a problem with people saying what they want, however I do have a problem with people assuming that just because I didn't say why I disagree means I don't have a reason.
Sadly, you are wrong, I love forums. I find them addicting. In fact that was my favorite part of Darkfall. Community discussions on the forums. So you are making assumptions based on what I didn't say. Which is the point I'm trying to make. People have been posting that fanbois think the game is perfect that there aren't any problems. Just because I haven't said what my problems were with the game doesn't mean that I don't have an opinion on it.
You are assuming you know why I am making this post in the first place. I happened to read a post that someone posted (obviously) and someone said that all the fanbois don't have a problem with anything in the game, which is completely untrue. They then stated this as fact because we weren't making threads about it or talking about it. I don't understand this frame of thought and therefore made a thread to discuss this anomaly.
You are doing exactly what I'm saying I don't understand.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.