Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
We are in 2010. Although given your review of FF XIV I can now understand your stance, given the 2004 comment.
I don't even know how this topic was brought up anymore. Hahaha, it's completely irrelevant to my OP.
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
I was expecting from this game to suck but I wasn't expecting to see so much failure, not from Square.
I remember playing FFVII and FFVIII on a PS1 long time ago and those games were just awesome, great stories and game play, FFVIII was my all time favorite video game for years.
I guess they are not so good at handling MMOs and that's a shame.
Well that isn't true. FFXI Online was a successful game.
FF XI was only a success because of its Asian populus. It pretty much tanked in the West, while their sinlge player games didn't.
You really need to get your info right there buddy if you want anyone to take yous eriously. FFXI pretty much tanked in west, oreally?
My info is correct. Anyone who follows FF XI fully understands the vasty majority of its subscribers are within the Asian region, and has been for several years.
Nice try though, but you're wrong to believe otherwise.
It is fallacious and baseless comments like this that provoked me to write this in the first place, show me numbers from 2003-present and let me determine whether it tanked in the west. It actually went strong and was considered the 2nd most populated mmo in the United States from 2004-2007, your information is wrong.
I find your statement to be hypocritical. Your comment is at the very least, baseless.
"It is our distinct pleasure to announce that during the third week of April, the total number of active characters across all worlds in FINAL FANTASY XI has exceeded the two million mark for the first time!
Since the commencement of service on May 16th, 2002, Vana'diel has gone on to become a vibrant gathering place for adventurers hailing from all corners of the globe. Boasting four expansions and one add-on scenario with two more in the pipes, FINAL FANTASY XI continues to evolve into an ever richer realm of magic and adventure.
We would like to thank you, our fans, for your loyal patronage over the years, and look forward to your continued support for many more to come." Play Online, 2004, state of the game. Hmmm... 2 million. Look at the numbers, of top P2P games in 2004, it was WoW then FFXI right under it. My statement has warrant.
That still doesn't prove that it did particularly well in the west (since the servers are all multi-national), which is what he was implying. I really don't know the truth either way, just pointing out the semantics of it.
look at the above line plot.
If it's true what's been said, and that the graph doesn't only represent the NA market, then he seems to have a valid point.
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
Well Play Online didn't say that, excuse me. Jumbled my words, play online said they has 2 million global in 2004.
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
Well Play Online didn't say that, excuse me. Jumbled my words, play online said they has 2 million global in 2004.
So you know nothing about NA subscription numbers.
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
And what you are doing is not being a hypocrite? i didn't see you say anything about grapevines 'baseless statements'. But you are sure putting every effort in proving mister wrong? why? because its simple. You and grapevine both dislike FFXIV so you got to stick together right? you scratch my back i scratch yours? please save this 'i am righteous' speech for someone else.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Yeah, once it was shown that your comment was baseless, call the other guy a troll. I get it.
Indeed I did call him a troll, I think we're both pretty resolved on our beliefs here and we will probably go at this all night. I'm not in the mood to prove right or wrong at the moment. He may not be troll, but I do think we both believe we are correct in this matter, and I refuse to budge because both the graph and hundreds of statements online say that FFXI was 2nd in NA in 2004.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
It truly was a backed comment, but the fact that I can't find the graph which I had several years ago doesn't show to well for me. At least I will admit that I can't find my information, and that makes my accusations seem somewhat spurious. But if you really want to do the research and try to prove me wrong, grab me a chart of just NA numbers 2004-2008.
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
And what you are doing is not being a hypocrite? i didn't see you say anything about grapevines 'baseless statements'. But you are sure putting every effort in proving mister wrong? why? because its simple. You and grapevine both dislike FFXIV so you got to stick together right? you scratch my back i scratch yours? please save this 'i am righteous speech for someone else'.
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
It truly was a backed comment, but the fact that I can't find the graph which I had several years ago doesn't show to well for me. At least I will admit that I can't find my information, and that makes my accusations seem somewhat spurious. But if you really want to do the research and try to prove me wrong, grab me a chart of just NA numbers 2004-2008.
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
And what you are doing is not being a hypocrite? i didn't see you say anything about grapevines 'baseless statements'. But you are sure putting every effort in proving mister wrong? why? because its simple. You and grapevine both dislike FFXIV so you got to stick together right? you scratch my back i scratch yours? please save this 'i am righteous speech for someone else'.
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
You all don't fare so well yourself, what valid information have you shown me besides a supposedly global chart? You neither have backed up your arguments with any valid data. At least I can admit that I am struggling to find the information to back up my side of the argument, although I know out there is the chart I was looking at about 4 years ago.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
It truly was a backed comment, but the fact that I can't find the graph which I had several years ago doesn't show to well for me. At least I will admit that I can't find my information, and that makes my accusations seem somewhat spurious. But if you really want to do the research and try to prove me wrong, grab me a chart of just NA numbers 2004-2008.
I can't and I won't pretend to be able to.
Thanks but I already admitted to my fault for not being able to find the data to back up my accusation, and due to the lack of relevance to the OP I do believe we should stop quarreling about the topic any longer. Although I do believe i proved that the argument was baseless due to lack of data to support it. At the moment my argument was baseless, but I would not by any means call FFXI a failure, obviously it brought it a decent amount of revenue or SE wouldn't be attempting another one.
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
And what you are doing is not being a hypocrite? i didn't see you say anything about grapevines 'baseless statements'. But you are sure putting every effort in proving mister wrong? why? because its simple. You and grapevine both dislike FFXIV so you got to stick together right? you scratch my back i scratch yours? please save this 'i am righteous speech for someone else'.
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
it seems quite a hypocricy to me that you use 'i dislike baseless arguments ' statement only to prove one side wrong. Considering the whole argument was baseless to begin with. What do you want to call it if its not hypocricy? 'double standards' that suits you better?
You are trying hard to be fair but you are not.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Christ. Are people still continuing this OFFTOPIC subject?
Nobody can cough up those figures since those weren't announced split per region, like US, EU or Japan. As far as I know, that is, but it seems to me like a useless quest, you might as well try to figure out how many WoW subs these days are EU, US or China, those figures just as the FFXI haven't been announced separate as well.
So what was the reason for all this derailment, the question 'did FFXI tank in NA'? Jeez...
These are the facts. Does this proof anything conclusive? No, it doesn't, so I suggest everyone draws his own conclusion.
Looking at the figures, my personal deduction (my own, not stating this as The Truth) is that FFXI was nowhere near as popular in the NA or EU as in Asia/Japan, but that it 'tanked' seems also exaggerated.
For the rest I'd suggest to you people to leave this topic be and not keep continuing a senseless pingpong debate - senseless, since no side is willing to concede even one step towards the other.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
And what you are doing is not being a hypocrite? i didn't see you say anything about grapevines 'baseless statements'. But you are sure putting every effort in proving mister wrong? why? because its simple. You and grapevine both dislike FFXIV so you got to stick together right? you scratch my back i scratch yours? please save this 'i am righteous speech for someone else'.
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
it seems quite a hypocricy to me that you use 'i hate baseless arguments ' statement only to prove one side wrong. Considering the whole argument was baseless to begin with. What do you want to call it if its not hypocricy? 'double standards' that suits you better?
You are trying hard to be fair but you are not.
Get off the topic of defining 'double standards' yada yada, you're going to get the thread locked for off-topic. Hahaha. This whole baseless argument has lasted way too long, and is completely irrelevant to the OP!
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
You all don't fare so well yourself, what valid information have you shown me besides a supposedly global chart? You neither have backed up your arguments with any valid data. At least I can admit that I am struggling to find the information to back up my side of the argument, although I know out there is the chart I was looking at about 4 years ago.
How can you not understand this. Maybe this is your way of trying to save face or something.
Here is what you said:
It is fallacious and baseless comments like this that provoked me to write this in the first place, show me numbers from 2003-present and let me determine whether it tanked in the west. It actually went strong and was considered the 2nd most populated mmo in the United States from 2004-2007, your information is wrong.
After that I said that you were being hypocritical. You denied it over and over and over again. Yet, it's just so obviously true.
That was my only argument. You stand on a soapbox and preach about how everyone else is biased and everything they say is baseless. Many times in this thread you accuse other people of being baseless in their criticisms of FFXIV. In reality, much of what you have to say, including this, is completely baseless.
Christ. Are people still continuing this OFFTOPIC subject?
Nobody can cough up those figures since those weren't announced split per region, like US, EU or Japan. As far as I know, that is, but it seems to me like a useless quest, you might as well try to figure out how many WoW subs these days are EU, US or China, those figures just as the FFXI haven't been announced separate as well.
So what was the reason for all this derailment, the question 'did FFXI tank in NA'? Jeez...
These are the facts. Does this proof anything conclusive? No, it doesn't, so I suggest everyone draws his own conclusion.
Looking at the figures, my personal deduction (my own, not stating this as The Truth) is that FFXI was nowhere near as popular in the NA or EU as in Asia/Japan, but that it 'tanked' seems also exaggerated.
For the rest I'd suggest to you people to leave this topic be and not keep continuing a senseless pingpong debate - senseless, since no side is willing to concede even one step towards the other.
My sentiments exactly, lets agree to disagree and get back to the subject at hand. And thanks for finding this!
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
You all don't fare so well yourself, what valid information have you shown me besides a supposedly global chart? You neither have backed up your arguments with any valid data. At least I can admit that I am struggling to find the information to back up my side of the argument, although I know out there is the chart I was looking at about 4 years ago.
How can you not understand this. Maybe this is your way of trying to save face or something.
Here is what you said:
It is fallacious and baseless comments like this that provoked me to write this in the first place, show me numbers from 2003-present and let me determine whether it tanked in the west. It actually went strong and was considered the 2nd most populated mmo in the United States from 2004-2007, your information is wrong.
After that I said that you were being hypocritical. You denied it over and over and over again. Yet, it's just so obviously true.
That was my only argument. You stand on a soapbox and preach about how everyone else is biased and everything they say is baseless. Many times in this thread you accuse other people of being baseless in their criticisms of FFXIV. In reality, much of what you have to say, including this, is completely baseless.
Stop talking about this, it's mind numbingly repetitive and is going nowhere. The information by the guy in blue text is the best we got, and yes his information was baseless, and mine was baseless due to the lack of info to support it. I had a graph, but then again the graph I had could of been highly biased towards FFXI or based on state of the game reports where populations were announced. All I know is this is going no where, and that I know FFXI Didn't tank.
This seems the biggest grey area amongst XIV's players, many see it is as a hassle (which I am not denying, it is), but it's purpose is good. The reason SE chose this system was because it creates an extremely diverse economy in which the player's are the base of it, and nothing else. Basically, it creates a web of interdependence amongst the three (soon to be four) city states, in which there are a plethora of varying prices on foreign goods. For instance, in LL a common shard is the Wind Shard, but in Ul'dah this is a rare commodity. Gathering wind shards and selling them in Ul'dah's market wards can create a lucrative profit for the seller. Basically, think of EVE and it's economy, and put it on a smaller scale between several smalls nations. The lack of easy access (like an AH) allows for price fluctuation, which creates for an interesting economic experience.
This raised a few questions to me:
- does FFXI have an AH?
- I vaguely recall reading somewhere that some sort of search function for retainers might be implemented. Is this true, or is the situation - as it is now - how things will stay, namely running from retainer to retainer?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This seems the biggest grey area amongst XIV's players, many see it is as a hassle (which I am not denying, it is), but it's purpose is good. The reason SE chose this system was because it creates an extremely diverse economy in which the player's are the base of it, and nothing else. Basically, it creates a web of interdependence amongst the three (soon to be four) city states, in which there are a plethora of varying prices on foreign goods. For instance, in LL a common shard is the Wind Shard, but in Ul'dah this is a rare commodity. Gathering wind shards and selling them in Ul'dah's market wards can create a lucrative profit for the seller. Basically, think of EVE and it's economy, and put it on a smaller scale between several smalls nations. The lack of easy access (like an AH) allows for price fluctuation, which creates for an interesting economic experience.
This raised a few questions to me:
- does FFXI have an AH?
- I vaguely recall reading somewhere that some sort of search function for retainers might be implemented. Is this true, or is the situation - as it is now - how things will stay, namely running from retainer to retainer?
FFXI didn't have an AH system in the early days. Only after the first initial months was one implemented.
I'm not sure about the prospect of a search function for the market wards. I've only heard rumours, but we haven't really been giving any concrete info (as far as I'm aware).
I do not understand how removing the AH or search function from the game suddenly makes the economy super awesome. I've yet to read a post anywhere that actually explains how players being unable to search for what they need means a perfect balanced economy. IMO the "search" has no effect on the economy other then to massively slow it down. How is this a good thing?
This seems the biggest grey area amongst XIV's players, many see it is as a hassle (which I am not denying, it is), but it's purpose is good. The reason SE chose this system was because it creates an extremely diverse economy in which the player's are the base of it, and nothing else. Basically, it creates a web of interdependence amongst the three (soon to be four) city states, in which there are a plethora of varying prices on foreign goods. For instance, in LL a common shard is the Wind Shard, but in Ul'dah this is a rare commodity. Gathering wind shards and selling them in Ul'dah's market wards can create a lucrative profit for the seller. Basically, think of EVE and it's economy, and put it on a smaller scale between several smalls nations. The lack of easy access (like an AH) allows for price fluctuation, which creates for an interesting economic experience.
This raised a few questions to me:
- does FFXI have an AH?
- I vaguely recall reading somewhere that some sort of search function for retainers might be implemented. Is this true, or is the situation - as it is now - how things will stay, namely running from retainer to retainer?
FFXI didn't have an AH system in the early days. Only after the first initial months was one implemented.
I'm not sure about the prospect of a search function for the market wards. I've only heard rumours, but we haven't really been giving any concrete info (as far as I'm aware).
I think the plan for XIV from SE is no AH initially, but we'll patch one in later.
This seems the biggest grey area amongst XIV's players, many see it is as a hassle (which I am not denying, it is), but it's purpose is good. The reason SE chose this system was because it creates an extremely diverse economy in which the player's are the base of it, and nothing else. Basically, it creates a web of interdependence amongst the three (soon to be four) city states, in which there are a plethora of varying prices on foreign goods. For instance, in LL a common shard is the Wind Shard, but in Ul'dah this is a rare commodity. Gathering wind shards and selling them in Ul'dah's market wards can create a lucrative profit for the seller. Basically, think of EVE and it's economy, and put it on a smaller scale between several smalls nations. The lack of easy access (like an AH) allows for price fluctuation, which creates for an interesting economic experience.
This raised a few questions to me:
- does FFXI have an AH?
- I vaguely recall reading somewhere that some sort of search function for retainers might be implemented. Is this true, or is the situation - as it is now - how things will stay, namely running from retainer to retainer?
FFXI didn't have an AH system in the early days. Only after the first initial months was one implemented.
I'm not sure about the prospect of a search function for the market wards. I've only heard rumours, but we haven't really been giving any concrete info (as far as I'm aware).
The thing about XI was that the 3 main cities had their own AH that weren't tied to each other, so you'd find things more expensive in certain cities and cheaper in others. Eventually there was a main AH in Jeuno, the main city, but while leveling up you were bound to the AH in your starter city.
This worked absolutely perfectly in XI and created the plyer run economy that everyone loved. SE should have stuck to that and expanded on it instead of trying to do something different for the sake of being different.
Perhaps SE saw how much people loved bazaaring things in XI without realizing they did so only to avoid sales tax. The key word here is we had options in XI.
This seems the biggest grey area amongst XIV's players, many see it is as a hassle (which I am not denying, it is), but it's purpose is good. The reason SE chose this system was because it creates an extremely diverse economy in which the player's are the base of it, and nothing else. Basically, it creates a web of interdependence amongst the three (soon to be four) city states, in which there are a plethora of varying prices on foreign goods. For instance, in LL a common shard is the Wind Shard, but in Ul'dah this is a rare commodity. Gathering wind shards and selling them in Ul'dah's market wards can create a lucrative profit for the seller. Basically, think of EVE and it's economy, and put it on a smaller scale between several smalls nations. The lack of easy access (like an AH) allows for price fluctuation, which creates for an interesting economic experience.
This raised a few questions to me:
- does FFXI have an AH?
- I vaguely recall reading somewhere that some sort of search function for retainers might be implemented. Is this true, or is the situation - as it is now - how things will stay, namely running from retainer to retainer?
FFXI didn't have an AH system in the early days. Only after the first initial months was one implemented.
I'm not sure about the prospect of a search function for the market wards. I've only heard rumours, but we haven't really been giving any concrete info (as far as I'm aware).
The thing about XI was that the 3 main cities had their own AH that weren't tied to each other, so you'd find things more expensive in certain cities and cheaper in others. Eventually there was a main AH in Jeuno, the main city, but while leveling up you were bound to the AH in your starter city.
This worked absolutely perfectly in XI and created the plyer run economy that everyone loved. SE should have stuck to that and expanded on it instead of trying to do something different for the sake of being different.
Perhaps SE saw how much people loved bazaaring things in XI without realizing they did so only to avoid sales tax. The key word here is we had options in XI.
I just relised then WoW was the same in Classic. The AHs in cities where not connected plus the neutral goblin one. Ahhh how times have changed.
Comments
I don't even know how this topic was brought up anymore. Hahaha, it's completely irrelevant to my OP.
What?!!!? Are you serious? What is the basis for this?!
If it's true what's been said, and that the graph doesn't only represent the NA market, then he seems to have a valid point.
Well Play Online didn't say that, excuse me. Jumbled my words, play online said they has 2 million global in 2004.
On the similar basis where grapevine announced that' it tanked in west'. Its really ironic that you are asking him 'on what basis' when this whole argument started on a baseless statement.
¨Pot kettle black.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
So you know nothing about NA subscription numbers.
Cool.
The difference is that Mister prefaced his comment by calling the other poster baseless. The other poster may have been baseless, but calling someone baseless and then bringing up a baseless point is hypocrisy.
Which is what I originally called it. Mister was just unable to accept that someone with his intellect may have made a baseless comment.
And what you are doing is not being a hypocrite? i didn't see you say anything about grapevines 'baseless statements'. But you are sure putting every effort in proving mister wrong? why? because its simple. You and grapevine both dislike FFXIV so you got to stick together right? you scratch my back i scratch yours? please save this 'i am righteous' speech for someone else.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
It truly was a backed comment, but the fact that I can't find the graph which I had several years ago doesn't show to well for me. At least I will admit that I can't find my information, and that makes my accusations seem somewhat spurious. But if you really want to do the research and try to prove me wrong, grab me a chart of just NA numbers 2004-2008.
You don't seem to understand hypocrisy. I would have had to have said that I had a problem with baseless comments to be a hypocrite in this case.
I can't and I won't pretend to be able to.
You all don't fare so well yourself, what valid information have you shown me besides a supposedly global chart? You neither have backed up your arguments with any valid data. At least I can admit that I am struggling to find the information to back up my side of the argument, although I know out there is the chart I was looking at about 4 years ago.
Thanks but I already admitted to my fault for not being able to find the data to back up my accusation, and due to the lack of relevance to the OP I do believe we should stop quarreling about the topic any longer. Although I do believe i proved that the argument was baseless due to lack of data to support it. At the moment my argument was baseless, but I would not by any means call FFXI a failure, obviously it brought it a decent amount of revenue or SE wouldn't be attempting another one.
it seems quite a hypocricy to me that you use 'i dislike baseless arguments ' statement only to prove one side wrong. Considering the whole argument was baseless to begin with. What do you want to call it if its not hypocricy? 'double standards' that suits you better?
You are trying hard to be fair but you are not.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Christ. Are people still continuing this OFFTOPIC subject?
Nobody can cough up those figures since those weren't announced split per region, like US, EU or Japan. As far as I know, that is, but it seems to me like a useless quest, you might as well try to figure out how many WoW subs these days are EU, US or China, those figures just as the FFXI haven't been announced separate as well.
So what was the reason for all this derailment, the question 'did FFXI tank in NA'? Jeez...
Well, what can we deduce, wikipedia:
- It was released in Japan on Sony's PlayStation 2 on May 16, 2002, and
- was released for Microsoft's Windows-based personal computers in November 2002.
- The PC version was released in North America on October 28, 2003,
- and the PlayStation 2 version on March 23, 2004.
- In Europe, only the Windows version was released, on September 17, 2004.
So, October 2003 in NA. What does the chart show?
A jump from 300,000 to 500,000 late 2003.
A jump from 500,000 to 550,000 in Spring 2004.
Of course, nothing is certain but these figures seem to coincide with the release in NA.
How about reception in NA?
Look here for the USA rewards
These are the facts. Does this proof anything conclusive? No, it doesn't, so I suggest everyone draws his own conclusion.
Looking at the figures, my personal deduction (my own, not stating this as The Truth) is that FFXI was nowhere near as popular in the NA or EU as in Asia/Japan, but that it 'tanked' seems also exaggerated.
For the rest I'd suggest to you people to leave this topic be and not keep continuing a senseless pingpong debate - senseless, since no side is willing to concede even one step towards the other.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Get off the topic of defining 'double standards' yada yada, you're going to get the thread locked for off-topic. Hahaha. This whole baseless argument has lasted way too long, and is completely irrelevant to the OP!
How can you not understand this. Maybe this is your way of trying to save face or something.
Here is what you said:
It is fallacious and baseless comments like this that provoked me to write this in the first place, show me numbers from 2003-present and let me determine whether it tanked in the west. It actually went strong and was considered the 2nd most populated mmo in the United States from 2004-2007, your information is wrong.
After that I said that you were being hypocritical. You denied it over and over and over again. Yet, it's just so obviously true.
That was my only argument. You stand on a soapbox and preach about how everyone else is biased and everything they say is baseless. Many times in this thread you accuse other people of being baseless in their criticisms of FFXIV. In reality, much of what you have to say, including this, is completely baseless.
My sentiments exactly, lets agree to disagree and get back to the subject at hand. And thanks for finding this!
Stop talking about this, it's mind numbingly repetitive and is going nowhere. The information by the guy in blue text is the best we got, and yes his information was baseless, and mine was baseless due to the lack of info to support it. I had a graph, but then again the graph I had could of been highly biased towards FFXI or based on state of the game reports where populations were announced. All I know is this is going no where, and that I know FFXI Didn't tank.
baseless argument refuting baseless argument refuting baseless argument...
This raised a few questions to me:
- does FFXI have an AH?
- I vaguely recall reading somewhere that some sort of search function for retainers might be implemented. Is this true, or is the situation - as it is now - how things will stay, namely running from retainer to retainer?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
FFXI didn't have an AH system in the early days. Only after the first initial months was one implemented.
I'm not sure about the prospect of a search function for the market wards. I've only heard rumours, but we haven't really been giving any concrete info (as far as I'm aware).
I do not understand how removing the AH or search function from the game suddenly makes the economy super awesome. I've yet to read a post anywhere that actually explains how players being unable to search for what they need means a perfect balanced economy. IMO the "search" has no effect on the economy other then to massively slow it down. How is this a good thing?
I think the plan for XIV from SE is no AH initially, but we'll patch one in later.
The thing about XI was that the 3 main cities had their own AH that weren't tied to each other, so you'd find things more expensive in certain cities and cheaper in others. Eventually there was a main AH in Jeuno, the main city, but while leveling up you were bound to the AH in your starter city.
This worked absolutely perfectly in XI and created the plyer run economy that everyone loved. SE should have stuck to that and expanded on it instead of trying to do something different for the sake of being different.
Perhaps SE saw how much people loved bazaaring things in XI without realizing they did so only to avoid sales tax. The key word here is we had options in XI.
I just relised then WoW was the same in Classic. The AHs in cities where not connected plus the neutral goblin one. Ahhh how times have changed.