As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
I prefer Pre-CU SWG's gameplay anyday of the week, any hour. It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.
Anyways, there's got to be alot of IF'S if I go back to Pre-CU SWG.
a) The Pre-CU SWG / classic server(s) would be nice, but I want to see commitment in improving the game but still keep to the core Pre-CU gameplay.
b) A major factor before I even consider going back to SWG: Is SOE handling it? If so, they can still go f**k themselves and go to hell.
If the factors above are met, I'd be very curious to see if the community it does develop was anywhere near the same as the one that existed before SOE told everyone to suck on it or f**k off. The player community back then was large, vibrant, and tight knit. Something I haven't seen in other MMORPGs since Pre-CU SWG's days. Other communities I've seen have some of those characteristics, but not all three anymore.
Sorry to have to vent on you but will people please stop making this bs statement. " It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.". Oh as we often hear I could be uncle owen, or my personal favorite the creature handler, but could you actually ever be an epic hero in SWG? No because there was nothing to do that was not generic.
What I would like someone to do though is point out to me what you could possibly do in SWG that cannot be done in LOTRO. Crafting, check. Housing, check, develop a character that never engages in battle but is strictly a crafter check. Now whether a person see's these features as in depth as SWG offered is another matter but please let's quit the falsehood that sandboxes offered more freedom then themeparks because they do not in any way shape or form.
The grind involved in SWG was no different than the one you would experience in a LOTRO if you chose to not do quests but just grind mobs for mat's or do bounty/skirmish quests and somehow people keep trying to equate that you have all these extra options as being forced into something or the other.
This point reminds me often of debates I often had with Darkfall players who are quick to sprinkle negativity on anything that they didn't approve, the problem you should have is with how they implement what they implement not the fact that they do it. If more thempark elements existed in sandbox games then themepark players would play these games and would not only give you more sheep to pluck from the darkness but add to the games bottom line and the ability to develop more for you and everyone.
Themeparks have always gone out of there way to include all the classic sandbox features offered by older games, but because sandbox players often show an attitude like this one the sandbox devs get freaking lazy and heap empty worlds upon is with regularity.
I don't know but to me freedom entails options and sandboxes have the least amount of options so I can't see why people keep calling this "freedom".
Yes, you have the option. The option to grind. Most people just go afk macro it though, tbh.
You are not even comparing apples to oranges, you are comparing oranges to apple pie.
Original SWG, was to this date in my opinion the best MMORPG ever presented in the industry, it's uniqueness was to this date never replicated, it had a fair mix of casual play, and hardcore play, it's entire system was unique in every aspect from Battle Fatigue to the 52 + professions, and template building.
As great as it was, it was among the 2nd generation, MMO's Post EQ/UO First gen era, and lets face it, even those of us who ENJOYED that type of MMO - Back then have -out-grown- it's play style, if SWG was offered in it's original packaging today, i would most likely NOT return to it, and thats saying something as i have played every major F2P, P2P, and Non-mainstream MMORPG in existence, and SWG remains my favorite(ed).
But like the Industry i too have grown, due to the fact my life no longer would be able to support the hardcore gaming style that SWG offered (As to why i didn't purchase FFXIV).
This is VERY imporant becuase i've been someone who enjoys the Casualcraft over Hardcoraft - and the current MMO Industry has grown 20x the size it was when SWG was launched, and 90% of that new growth are people who were brought into the MMO industry through WoW, and it's casual approach to gaming.
Those people would have no interest in the system SWG employed, they would be drawn to TOR for it's casual approach, as the standard now is Casual > Hardcore, the reason being is as i said, the casual players outnumber the hardcore players, and the 1st/2nd Generation Vets.
AT the most SWG would attract more subs AT FIRST, but would fail to retain those subs, the higher learning curve would simply scare away the casual players.
And again, this thread doesn't make sense, as we are comparing a dead MMO to a not-yet live MMO.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
While you we're playing Nexus I was playing Meridian 59, and prior to that I was playing text MUD's so yes I am pulling rank on you.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
While you we're playing Nexus I was playing Meridian 59, and prior to that I was playing text MUD's so yes I am pulling rank on you.
You can't pull rank on me , brah. I'm 29 years old. I have been playing online games since the internet came out. I played texts muds aswell. I even played Muds. I even played text based games before you could play them online with other people.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
While you we're playing Nexus I was playing Meridian 59, and prior to that I was playing text MUD's so yes I am pulling rank on you.
You can't pull rank on me , brah. I'm 29 years old. I have been playing online games since the internet came out. I played texts muds aswell. I even played Muds. I even played text based games before you could play them online with other people.
Props to you, I guess we both know our shit then. I am still going to say sandbox>theme park.
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
SWG has had a full, lengthy trial for years. If they haven't tried it by now, they'll never try it.
The most subs(the absolute CEILING) pre-NGE classic servers would get is the number they had just before going NGE. Those that left before then, wanted to leave for reasons other than NGE, and there's no reason to think they'll want to come back. And there's no reason to think new players will want to go back to a buggy 7 year old game, with so many newer alternatives out there, now.
Most of my friends who were SW fans weren't MMO fans. When they read about what SWG pre-NGE had to offer, they had no interest in the game.
On the other hand, many of them played KotOR and LOVED it. And they're very interested in seeing what KotR is going to be. If all they did was make KotR with 5 times the content and with other players running around, those people will probably be pretty happy, at least for a while.
If you spent alot of time thinking about this, you really really wasted your time. Classic SWG is NOT gonna happen, at least not by SOE's hands.
Youre an awesome poster and I love how your posts while very inciteful and truthful are almost always very neutral in tone. I'm also glad to see that now atleast a few people have mentioned what I have said quite a few times over, SWG gave you the freedom to be Owen the farmer but never a part of the central conflict of the galaxy and by and large that is it's failure. I do not begrudge anyone who had the desire to be the ant among the colony but I wish that they would equally understand others desire to be something that you could have imagined in the movie.
It's hard to say that sentiments like this killed the game because as SWG tells it that's what they tried to do with the NGE, but let's be serious here people how much did the NGE actually look like WOW?
WOW had tons of sometimes engaging quests other than gimping the classes the only content I saw at NGE launch was that legacy quest which was not a quest hub but a single quest chain thrown into the mix with all the other changes.
I still have to wonder what makes people think that if SWG had those quest hubs with a few different people to talk to who gave you meaningful quests that were meant to advance the galaxies interests this would have made it a worse game. Think about it by and large most people who loved SWG loved it for it's mechanics the way it did things with the bases,cities, cantinas, and the need to rely on one another in many aspects and times (not just needing a healer or tank in the middle of a dungeon). Not because it lacked content, but that is why many people did not and do not want to play a Star Wars game like this.
Often times the vets begin their posts with lines like "Star Wars is about...." and ninety five percent of the time they complete that statement with something that simply is not a fact but a feeling, Star Wars was that to you (and I think more often then not because that's what SWG showed you) but if you wanted to know Star Wars has and always will be about that "fellowship" and there struggles in the galaxy and the battle between good and evil, I love SOE and SWG for giving me the chance to take notice of those musicians,creature handlers, cooks in the galaxy but I equally condem them for dropping the ball and not giving us what Star Wars was about.
And as Rob has pointed out that is why SWG while probably one of the most passionate products was never a shining success as an mmo and even less as a Star Wars product.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
While you we're playing Nexus I was playing Meridian 59, and prior to that I was playing text MUD's so yes I am pulling rank on you.
You can't pull rank on me , brah. I'm 29 years old. I have been playing online games since the internet came out. I played texts muds aswell. I even played Muds. I even played text based games before you could play them online with other people.
Props to you, I guess we both know our shit then. I am still going to say sandbox>theme park.
Well, I can agree with you. Some sandbox games are better than some themepark games, but I am willing to give TOR the benifit of the doubt. I am a huge star wars fan, and the game looks promising.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
While you we're playing Nexus I was playing Meridian 59, and prior to that I was playing text MUD's so yes I am pulling rank on you.
You can't pull rank on me , brah. I'm 29 years old. I have been playing online games since the internet came out. I played texts muds aswell. I even played Muds. I even played text based games before you could play them online with other people.
Props to you, I guess we both know our shit then. I am still going to say sandbox>theme park.
Well, I can agree with you. Some sandbox games are better than some themepark games, but I am willing to give TOR the benifit of the doubt. I am a huge star wars fan, and the game looks promising.
Oh I will definitely try out TOR, I am just saying I have lost faith in Bioware since EA bought them out. EA is the devil, look what they did to Westwood and turned the C&C franchise into a piece of crap.
I prefer Pre-CU SWG's gameplay anyday of the week, any hour. It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.
Anyways, there's got to be alot of IF'S if I go back to Pre-CU SWG.
a) The Pre-CU SWG / classic server(s) would be nice, but I want to see commitment in improving the game but still keep to the core Pre-CU gameplay.
b) A major factor before I even consider going back to SWG: Is SOE handling it? If so, they can still go f**k themselves and go to hell.
If the factors above are met, I'd be very curious to see if the community it does develop was anywhere near the same as the one that existed before SOE told everyone to suck on it or f**k off. The player community back then was large, vibrant, and tight knit. Something I haven't seen in other MMORPGs since Pre-CU SWG's days. Other communities I've seen have some of those characteristics, but not all three anymore.
Sorry to have to vent on you but will people please stop making this bs statement. " It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.". Oh as we often hear I could be uncle owen, or my personal favorite the creature handler, but could you actually ever be an epic hero in SWG? No because there was nothing to do that was not generic.
What I would like someone to do though is point out to me what you could possibly do in SWG that cannot be done in LOTRO. Crafting, check. Housing, check, develop a character that never engages in battle but is strictly a crafter check. Now whether a person see's these features as in depth as SWG offered is another matter but please let's quit the falsehood that sandboxes offered more freedom then themeparks because they do not in any way shape or form.
The grind involved in SWG was no different than the one you would experience in a LOTRO if you chose to not do quests but just grind mobs for mat's or do bounty/skirmish quests and somehow people keep trying to equate that you have all these extra options as being forced into something or the other.
This point reminds me often of debates I often had with Darkfall players who are quick to sprinkle negativity on anything that they didn't approve, the problem you should have is with how they implement what they implement not the fact that they do it. If more thempark elements existed in sandbox games then themepark players would play these games and would not only give you more sheep to pluck from the darkness but add to the games bottom line and the ability to develop more for you and everyone.
Themeparks have always gone out of there way to include all the classic sandbox features offered by older games, but because sandbox players often show an attitude like this one the sandbox devs get freaking lazy and heap empty worlds upon is with regularity.
I don't know but to me freedom entails options and sandboxes have the least amount of options so I can't see why people keep calling this "freedom".
Yes, you have the option. The option to grind. Most people just go afk macro it though, tbh.
Not one hundred percent sure but I do believe folks used to macro in WOW but the only other game I know of that was said to have pretty rampant macroing was Darkfall (which is a sandbox if you believe the devs and community).
Not really sure though if you are saying that themeparks are full of grinds while sandboxes aren't but if so I just don't see that statement ringing true for any of the few sandbox mmo's I've played, the grind there was always much more so because you simply ran around killing,chopping, mining everything with no other purpose. In a themepark I still do all the same stuff but often have it spaced out with purpose and the choice to do it where and how I want to including the choice to go sandbox mode and just grind.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
SWG is outdated and has been managed incompetently. Even if SW:TOR turns out to be the worst MMO ever made it will still blow away SWG on day 1. After that it depends on how well SW:TOR was designed and implemented.
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
Pre CU was already released , I played it ... many did not. If it were released today it would have been killed in the first month due to all the bugs in the game and content that was not there upon release. Pre CU could not compete with TOR based on graphics alone, most people would already have looked the other way.
Really though, this is just opinion obviously. But I don't see how it would even be in the same ball park. You are going on forums .... of people pi ssed off, nothing more. Outside the people who actually played it, no one cares and talk about how they heard the game blows when it is mentioned. Even If you gave it a clean slate as if it never existed ... you would need a graphics overhaul to compete. Do that and perhaps maybe the overall idea of how SWG would work would appeal to more people than TOR. But a pure "classic" vs TOR ... "classic" would lose by a mile, no doubt in my mind.
Playing since the advent of MMORPGS/ MUDs is NOT an a proper reasoning to use in order to objective YOUR subjective opinion.
Opinions will never be objective, in thus statements like "Sandbox>Themepark" is highly subjective, and unquanitifable under any and all absolute pretenses.
Pass an opinion if you want, but don't try to speak for the entire MMORPG Community, thats just arrogance.
Oh it's arrogance and more often than not why those same types of folks are often pissed to no end because the genre is moving beyond them in ways they refuse to accept. I enjoy that I'm getting close to mmo vet status but that in no way makes me feel like my opinion is any more valid than anyone elses.
For me I'm a gamer and I like good games and am lucky enough to be able to be entertained through a myriad of ways so I like a good sandbox as much as a good themepark, I just think the sandbox communities arrogance works against them in really foolish ways thas has only set back the genre.
Far too often it's from that side the battle lines are drawn and it's sad because they are often the deepest and best players to play with. TOR is more often than not full of complaints etc. by sandbox players and SWG vets (which are often the same thing) while games like Fallen Earth are simply ignored by people who prefer theme park game play.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Playing since the advent of MMORPGS/ MUDs is NOT an a proper reasoning to use in order to objective YOUR subjective opinion.
Opinions will never be objective, in thus statements like "Sandbox>Themepark" is highly subjective, and unquanitifable under any and all absolute pretenses.
Pass an opinion if you want, but don't try to speak for the entire MMORPG Community, thats just arrogance.
Oh it's arrogance and more often than not why those same types of folks are often pissed to no end because the genre is moving beyond them in ways they refuse to accept. I enjoy that I'm getting close to mmo vet status but that in no way makes me feel like my opinion is any more valid than anyone elses.
For me I'm a gamer and I like good games and am lucky enough to be able to be entertained through a myriad of ways so I like a good sandbox as much as a good themepark, I just think the sandbox communities arrogance works against them in really foolish ways thas has only set back the genre.
Far too often it's from that side the battle lines are drawn and it's sad because they are often the deepest and best players to play with. TOR is more often than not full of complaints etc. by sandbox players and SWG vets (which are often the same thing) while games like Fallen Earth are simply ignored by people who prefer theme park game play.
FE is a good game, I just personally found it bland and not my style of sandbox, but to each their own right?
Playing since the advent of MMORPGS/ MUDs is NOT an a proper reasoning to use in order to objective YOUR subjective opinion.
Opinions will never be objective, in thus statements like "Sandbox>Themepark" is highly subjective, and unquanitifable under any and all absolute pretenses.
Pass an opinion if you want, but don't try to speak for the entire MMORPG Community, thats just arrogance.
Oh it's arrogance and more often than not why those same types of folks are often pissed to no end because the genre is moving beyond them in ways they refuse to accept. I enjoy that I'm getting close to mmo vet status but that in no way makes me feel like my opinion is any more valid than anyone elses.
For me I'm a gamer and I like good games and am lucky enough to be able to be entertained through a myriad of ways so I like a good sandbox as much as a good themepark, I just think the sandbox communities arrogance works against them in really foolish ways thas has only set back the genre.
Far too often it's from that side the battle lines are drawn and it's sad because they are often the deepest and best players to play with. TOR is more often than not full of complaints etc. by sandbox players and SWG vets (which are often the same thing) while games like Fallen Earth are simply ignored by people who prefer theme park game play.
FE is a good game, I just personally found it bland and not my style of sandbox, but to each their own right?
Agreed just wish more of our community could think like that "to each their own".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Maybe but I agree with you even if you don't.
; )
And yes I would be more likely to play SWG than TOR again. I can't stand themeparks anymore . .. unless it is a themepark like the original EQ I will stay far away from it I decided. Fuck WOW and all of the dumbed-down games for casual players (sorry for the language).
Check out the hype for TOR. Most of the hype is about the storytelling . ... LOL . .. not my kind of game. Maybe if it was a choose your own adventure but if the flying battleship gameplay looks incredibly fun than I may buy it and play for a month to go through the story but don't see myself sticking around in that kind of game for long at all. If it was like the original than I would be a lot more likely to play for many many months.
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Youre an awesome poster and I love how your posts while very inciteful and truthful are almost always very neutral in tone. I'm also glad to see that now atleast a few people have mentioned what I have said quite a few times over, SWG gave you the freedom to be Owen the farmer but never a part of the central conflict of the galaxy and by and large that is it's failure. I do not begrudge anyone who had the desire to be the ant among the colony but I wish that they would equally understand others desire to be something that you could have imagined in the movie.
Thanks!
Yeah, that pretty much nails it. I LOVED the crafting, but the combat was broken from day 1. You were either underpowered, even with high skills, or an overpowered Rancor eater with doc buffs. This led me to actually like the CU in that context, as you were fairly powerful maxed in skills, and significantly more powerful with doc buffs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that brought an end to solo'ing a hive of Rancor, if I remember correctly.
Anyway, despite all that power, like you said, you have very little feeling that there was an actual conflict going on. Always a feeling that "the action" was happening wherever you weren't... except when you went there...
It's hard to say that sentiments like this killed the game because as SWG tells it that's what they tried to do with the NGE, but let's be serious here people how much did the NGE actually look like WOW?
Not much, but then I didn't stick to the ground game much after NGE. Respec was just such a mess. You had like 15 versions of the same attack and it wasn't always clear which was the most powerful one. Compared to any other game made at the time, which automatically swapped them out for you.
I still have to wonder what makes people think that if SWG had those quest hubs with a few different people to talk to who gave you meaningful quests that were meant to advance the galaxies interests this would have made it a worse game. Think about it by and large most people who loved SWG loved it for it's mechanics the way it did things with the bases,cities, cantinas, and the need to rely on one another in many aspects and times (not just needing a healer or tank in the middle of a dungeon). Not because it lacked content, but that is why many people did not and do not want to play a Star Wars game like this.
Agreed. I don't recall receiving missions in Tie Fighter as being a negative thing. Certainly better than... "hey, go fly around in space and start blowing stuff up. Your mission will come to you at some point."
Often times the vets begin their posts with lines like "Star Wars is about...." and ninety five percent of the time they complete that statement with something that simply is not a fact but a feeling, Star Wars was that to you (and I think more often then not because that's what SWG showed you) but if you wanted to know Star Wars has and always will be about that "fellowship" and there struggles in the galaxy and the battle between good and evil, I love SOE and SWG for giving me the chance to take notice of those musicians,creature handlers, cooks in the galaxy but I equally condem them for dropping the ball and not giving us what Star Wars was about.
And as Rob has pointed out that is why SWG while probably one of the most passionate products was never a shining success as an mmo and even less as a Star Wars product.
If they'd have stuck to the original game, I do think it would be a better game and more successful than it is, now. But that's not saying much. After it got the MMO treatment, its Star Wars skin really didn't matter much. Could be any sci-fi, or even fantasy setting and its positives would really be about the same in terms of gameplay.
Star Wars had a great many things that you could tack onto it, but I don't think that being a normal Joe out dusting crops was ever really part of it. All of its concepts were based on Campbells "The Heroes Journey", where an unlikely hero goes forth and does great things... not "goes forth and makes gradually better Blaster batteries"...
That's what Lucas's intent was. But once something in pop culture gets this big, it no longer belongs to that one person. So if they think the next movie should be about Uncle Owen, they're welcome to that. But I doubt most are that interested.
I think if the two developed and released side by side TOR would attract greater numbers in the current market and SWG would have attracted greater numbers in the market of it's day.
Sandbox is struggling because it requires more patience, more thought and more effort to get the full enjoyment out of the game world, but IMO provides a much much more immersive and rewarding experience for those that want to make the proper investment.
Everyone posting to this point, think on this, I see people posting every single day that they "want something different" then the "norm".
SWG was different from the "norm" in so many ways, which do you think would actually garner nore interest and players?
There would be more people interested in KTOR because theme park MMOs appeal to more "gamers" than traditional sandbox MMORPGs.
I think more traditional MMORPG fans would be interested in a Pre-CU SWG experience than they are for another run of the mill linear theme park experience.......but the new MMO market now includes a lot more people than traditionall MMORPG gamers.
Everyone posting to this point, think on this, I see people posting every single day that they "want something different" then the "norm".
SWG was different from the "norm" in so many ways, which do you think would actually garner nore interest and players?
There would be more people interested in KTOR because theme park MMOs appeal to more "gamers" than traditional sandbox MMORPGs.
I think more traditional MMORPG fans would be interested in a Pre-CU SWG experience than they are for another run of the mill linear theme park experience.......but the new MMO market now includes a lot more people than traditionall MMORPG gamers.
Let's look at it like this, I am glad to be in a unique position having entered the mmo genre at what is by alot considered to be the end of the "old school" with SWG.
Now let's look at numbers EQ1 I hear had peaked somewhere around 500k which was a number as far as subs go SWG may have reached only in one month (strange that even all the EQ people didn't stick with the game from the same company). Those are the traditional mmorpg fans and I think what you do is sell short some of those peoples hatred of SOE and what they did to SWG, those people in large enough numbers would shun the game simply to avoid helping SOE.
As stated by others this game would have to leave SOE's hands to even have a chance to match it's own numbers then graphics need to be overhauled, bugs fixed, content added.
The game had too many flaws and too many things going against it to ever be a viable contender to anything even it's former self.
Now maybe if Mark Zucker was one of those ravenous SWG fans there would be someone williing to spend a billion dollars to move this game towards what it could have been but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was an old school mmorpg player.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I prefer Pre-CU SWG's gameplay anyday of the week, any hour. It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.
Anyways, there's got to be alot of IF'S if I go back to Pre-CU SWG.
a) The Pre-CU SWG / classic server(s) would be nice, but I want to see commitment in improving the game but still keep to the core Pre-CU gameplay.
b) A major factor before I even consider going back to SWG: Is SOE handling it? If so, they can still go f**k themselves and go to hell.
If the factors above are met, I'd be very curious to see if the community it does develop was anywhere near the same as the one that existed before SOE told everyone to suck on it or f**k off. The player community back then was large, vibrant, and tight knit. Something I haven't seen in other MMORPGs since Pre-CU SWG's days. Other communities I've seen have some of those characteristics, but not all three anymore.
Sorry to have to vent on you but will people please stop making this bs statement. " It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.". Oh as we often hear I could be uncle owen, or my personal favorite the creature handler, but could you actually ever be an epic hero in SWG? No because there was nothing to do that was not generic.
What I would like someone to do though is point out to me what you could possibly do in SWG that cannot be done in LOTRO. Crafting, check. Housing, check, develop a character that never engages in battle but is strictly a crafter check. Now whether a person see's these features as in depth as SWG offered is another matter but please let's quit the falsehood that sandboxes offered more freedom then themeparks because they do not in any way shape or form.
The grind involved in SWG was no different than the one you would experience in a LOTRO if you chose to not do quests but just grind mobs for mat's or do bounty/skirmish quests and somehow people keep trying to equate that you have all these extra options as being forced into something or the other.
This point reminds me often of debates I often had with Darkfall players who are quick to sprinkle negativity on anything that they didn't approve, the problem you should have is with how they implement what they implement not the fact that they do it. If more thempark elements existed in sandbox games then themepark players would play these games and would not only give you more sheep to pluck from the darkness but add to the games bottom line and the ability to develop more for you and everyone.
Themeparks have always gone out of there way to include all the classic sandbox features offered by older games, but because sandbox players often show an attitude like this one the sandbox devs get freaking lazy and heap empty worlds upon is with regularity.
I don't know but to me freedom entails options and sandboxes have the least amount of options so I can't see why people keep calling this "freedom".
Yes, you have the option. The option to grind. Most people just go afk macro it though, tbh.
Not one hundred percent sure but I do believe folks used to macro in WOW but the only other game I know of that was said to have pretty rampant macroing was Darkfall (which is a sandbox if you believe the devs and community).
Not really sure though if you are saying that themeparks are full of grinds while sandboxes aren't but if so I just don't see that statement ringing true for any of the few sandbox mmo's I've played, the grind there was always much more so because you simply ran around killing,chopping, mining everything with no other purpose. In a themepark I still do all the same stuff but often have it spaced out with purpose and the choice to do it where and how I want to including the choice to go sandbox mode and just grind.
Both game types have time sinks (grind). The player that enjoys Sandbox MMORPGs doesn't see the chopping of wood, mining of ore, killing of random monsters for their face value.....they are a means to an end that they find value in.
The wood turns to furniture that the player sells to other players that have houses that need furnishing. The ore is made into armor and weapons so that they can equip themselves for combat. The killing of random monsters is done to earn some cash to buy a boat that you can use to become a fisherman or pirate. The CHOICE is in your path you wish to take to influence your server...or your world.
In most Theme Parks....all roads lead to gear. You might take a short detour to mine a node here, craft a potion there.......but it all leads to you inreasing your level and getting better gear. You can't get to endgame crafting, fishing, gathering, increasing your faction, or anything else thats considered time sinks in themepark MMOs. Ultimately, you have to strap on your weapon of choice and hack n' slash it to endgame.
Everyone posting to this point, think on this, I see people posting every single day that they "want something different" then the "norm".
SWG was different from the "norm" in so many ways, which do you think would actually garner nore interest and players?
There would be more people interested in KTOR because theme park MMOs appeal to more "gamers" than traditional sandbox MMORPGs.
I think more traditional MMORPG fans would be interested in a Pre-CU SWG experience than they are for another run of the mill linear theme park experience.......but the new MMO market now includes a lot more people than traditionall MMORPG gamers.
Let's look at it like this, I am glad to be in a unique position having entered the mmo genre at what is by alot considered to be the end of the "old school" with SWG.
Now let's look at numbers EQ1 I hear had peaked somewhere around 500k which was a number as far as subs go SWG may have reached only in one month (strange that even all the EQ people didn't stick with the game from the same company). Those are the traditional mmorpg fans and I think what you do is sell short some of those peoples hatred of SOE and what they did to SWG, those people in large enough numbers would shun the game simply to avoid helping SOE.
As stated by others this game would have to leave SOE's hands to even have a chance to match it's own numbers then graphics need to be overhauled, bugs fixed, content added.
The game had too many flaws and too many things going against it to ever be a viable contender to anything even it's former self.
Now maybe if Mark Zucker was one of those ravenous SWG fans there would be someone williing to spend a billion dollars to move this game towards what it could have been but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was an old school mmorpg player.
I think you sell short the hunger that many traditional MMORPG fans have for a good game to play. The only good option for a well thought out Sandbox is EVE, and with that your limited to a stupid ship avatar and get to look at deep space your entire play experience.
If there is a place for Ultima Online in todays market (and there is.....EA is still pumping out expansions), then there is a place for one of the better intergrations of sandbox / linear game play.
Maybe I'm not taking the OPs statement as literal as I should be......but what I took from his question is whether or not more people would be interested in playing a Starwars IP MMORPG that is completely different than the WOW standard, or would they be more interested in playing a Starwars IP MMO that is WOW 2.0 with a few droids and lightsabers.
And to that, I answered WOW 2.0 due to the diverse mix of gamers that is now considered the "MMO" market base.
Everyone posting to this point, think on this, I see people posting every single day that they "want something different" then the "norm".
SWG was different from the "norm" in so many ways, which do you think would actually garner nore interest and players?
There would be more people interested in KTOR because theme park MMOs appeal to more "gamers" than traditional sandbox MMORPGs.
I think more traditional MMORPG fans would be interested in a Pre-CU SWG experience than they are for another run of the mill linear theme park experience.......but the new MMO market now includes a lot more people than traditionall MMORPG gamers.
Let's look at it like this, I am glad to be in a unique position having entered the mmo genre at what is by alot considered to be the end of the "old school" with SWG.
Now let's look at numbers EQ1 I hear had peaked somewhere around 500k which was a number as far as subs go SWG may have reached only in one month (strange that even all the EQ people didn't stick with the game from the same company). Those are the traditional mmorpg fans and I think what you do is sell short some of those peoples hatred of SOE and what they did to SWG, those people in large enough numbers would shun the game simply to avoid helping SOE.
As stated by others this game would have to leave SOE's hands to even have a chance to match it's own numbers then graphics need to be overhauled, bugs fixed, content added.
The game had too many flaws and too many things going against it to ever be a viable contender to anything even it's former self.
Now maybe if Mark Zucker was one of those ravenous SWG fans there would be someone williing to spend a billion dollars to move this game towards what it could have been but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was an old school mmorpg player.
I think you sell short the hunger that many traditional MMORPG fans have for a good game to play. The only good option for a well thought out Sandbox is EVE, and with that your limited to a stupid ship avatar and get to look at deep space your entire play experience.
If there is a place for Ultima Online in todays market (and there is.....EA is still pumping out expansions), then there is a place for one of the better intergrations of sandbox / linear game play.
Maybe I'm not taking the OPs statement as literal as I should be......but what I took from his question is whether or not more people would be interested in playing a Starwars IP MMORPG that is completely different than the WOW standard, or would they be more interested in playing a Starwars IP MMO that is WOW 2.0 with a few droids and lightsabers.
And to that, I answered WOW 2.0 due to the diverse mix of gamers that is now considered the "MMO" market base.
I'm not sure that I would call it "WoW 2.0" just because I see World of Warcraft as part of a development line.
What I would say is MMO players who started with EverQuest or a similar "level game" would most likely what that kind of game. The simple reason is that it is what is familiar to them.
There is a larger base of MMO players that are looking for the Raid, "metal chest" etc that has the "uber item" for them. In comparison to the player base where crafted items were the end all be all or as good as anything else. There is certainly a large enough subscriber base for both types of games. Yet it seems development houses and their financial counter parts only look at the big WoW numbers these days.
Based on your own experience of reading mmo forums, if it did exist on the same day ToR released, which do you think would garner more interest?
TOR. People would maybe try the pre-cu but it would be buggy and broken since they haven't worked on it for the last 5 years or so. Also many people lost trust in SOE and will never try or look at another one of their games.
While Pre-cu was good, times have changed and i bet the minute people go back to the pre-cu they would realize it wasn't as great as they remembered and leave.
Comments
While you were playing UO and eve I was playing Nexus TK. So , I hope you are not trying to pull rank on me.
Never got into UO or eve, although I wanted to, but I was doing alot of other things at the time.
Yea, I do like pvp. I like open world pvp. I played nexus tk from 97-2000. Than I took a break from MMOs and started when SWG came out. I played swg on and off for years. I would get bored with the game than come back and try it out when it seemed like they were adding content.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Yes, you have the option. The option to grind. Most people just go afk macro it though, tbh.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I really don't understand this thread.
You are not even comparing apples to oranges, you are comparing oranges to apple pie.
Original SWG, was to this date in my opinion the best MMORPG ever presented in the industry, it's uniqueness was to this date never replicated, it had a fair mix of casual play, and hardcore play, it's entire system was unique in every aspect from Battle Fatigue to the 52 + professions, and template building.
As great as it was, it was among the 2nd generation, MMO's Post EQ/UO First gen era, and lets face it, even those of us who ENJOYED that type of MMO - Back then have -out-grown- it's play style, if SWG was offered in it's original packaging today, i would most likely NOT return to it, and thats saying something as i have played every major F2P, P2P, and Non-mainstream MMORPG in existence, and SWG remains my favorite(ed).
But like the Industry i too have grown, due to the fact my life no longer would be able to support the hardcore gaming style that SWG offered (As to why i didn't purchase FFXIV).
This is VERY imporant becuase i've been someone who enjoys the Casualcraft over Hardcoraft - and the current MMO Industry has grown 20x the size it was when SWG was launched, and 90% of that new growth are people who were brought into the MMO industry through WoW, and it's casual approach to gaming.
Those people would have no interest in the system SWG employed, they would be drawn to TOR for it's casual approach, as the standard now is Casual > Hardcore, the reason being is as i said, the casual players outnumber the hardcore players, and the 1st/2nd Generation Vets.
AT the most SWG would attract more subs AT FIRST, but would fail to retain those subs, the higher learning curve would simply scare away the casual players.
And again, this thread doesn't make sense, as we are comparing a dead MMO to a not-yet live MMO.
Oranges, and apple pies.
While you we're playing Nexus I was playing Meridian 59, and prior to that I was playing text MUD's so yes I am pulling rank on you.
You can't pull rank on me , brah. I'm 29 years old. I have been playing online games since the internet came out. I played texts muds aswell. I even played Muds. I even played text based games before you could play them online with other people.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Props to you, I guess we both know our shit then. I am still going to say sandbox>theme park.
Youre an awesome poster and I love how your posts while very inciteful and truthful are almost always very neutral in tone. I'm also glad to see that now atleast a few people have mentioned what I have said quite a few times over, SWG gave you the freedom to be Owen the farmer but never a part of the central conflict of the galaxy and by and large that is it's failure. I do not begrudge anyone who had the desire to be the ant among the colony but I wish that they would equally understand others desire to be something that you could have imagined in the movie.
It's hard to say that sentiments like this killed the game because as SWG tells it that's what they tried to do with the NGE, but let's be serious here people how much did the NGE actually look like WOW?
WOW had tons of sometimes engaging quests other than gimping the classes the only content I saw at NGE launch was that legacy quest which was not a quest hub but a single quest chain thrown into the mix with all the other changes.
I still have to wonder what makes people think that if SWG had those quest hubs with a few different people to talk to who gave you meaningful quests that were meant to advance the galaxies interests this would have made it a worse game. Think about it by and large most people who loved SWG loved it for it's mechanics the way it did things with the bases,cities, cantinas, and the need to rely on one another in many aspects and times (not just needing a healer or tank in the middle of a dungeon). Not because it lacked content, but that is why many people did not and do not want to play a Star Wars game like this.
Often times the vets begin their posts with lines like "Star Wars is about...." and ninety five percent of the time they complete that statement with something that simply is not a fact but a feeling, Star Wars was that to you (and I think more often then not because that's what SWG showed you) but if you wanted to know Star Wars has and always will be about that "fellowship" and there struggles in the galaxy and the battle between good and evil, I love SOE and SWG for giving me the chance to take notice of those musicians,creature handlers, cooks in the galaxy but I equally condem them for dropping the ball and not giving us what Star Wars was about.
And as Rob has pointed out that is why SWG while probably one of the most passionate products was never a shining success as an mmo and even less as a Star Wars product.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Well, I can agree with you. Some sandbox games are better than some themepark games, but I am willing to give TOR the benifit of the doubt. I am a huge star wars fan, and the game looks promising.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Oh I will definitely try out TOR, I am just saying I have lost faith in Bioware since EA bought them out. EA is the devil, look what they did to Westwood and turned the C&C franchise into a piece of crap.
Not one hundred percent sure but I do believe folks used to macro in WOW but the only other game I know of that was said to have pretty rampant macroing was Darkfall (which is a sandbox if you believe the devs and community).
Not really sure though if you are saying that themeparks are full of grinds while sandboxes aren't but if so I just don't see that statement ringing true for any of the few sandbox mmo's I've played, the grind there was always much more so because you simply ran around killing,chopping, mining everything with no other purpose. In a themepark I still do all the same stuff but often have it spaced out with purpose and the choice to do it where and how I want to including the choice to go sandbox mode and just grind.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
SWG is outdated and has been managed incompetently. Even if SW:TOR turns out to be the worst MMO ever made it will still blow away SWG on day 1. After that it depends on how well SW:TOR was designed and implemented.
Pre CU was already released , I played it ... many did not. If it were released today it would have been killed in the first month due to all the bugs in the game and content that was not there upon release. Pre CU could not compete with TOR based on graphics alone, most people would already have looked the other way.
Really though, this is just opinion obviously. But I don't see how it would even be in the same ball park. You are going on forums .... of people pi ssed off, nothing more. Outside the people who actually played it, no one cares and talk about how they heard the game blows when it is mentioned. Even If you gave it a clean slate as if it never existed ... you would need a graphics overhaul to compete. Do that and perhaps maybe the overall idea of how SWG would work would appeal to more people than TOR. But a pure "classic" vs TOR ... "classic" would lose by a mile, no doubt in my mind.
Oh it's arrogance and more often than not why those same types of folks are often pissed to no end because the genre is moving beyond them in ways they refuse to accept. I enjoy that I'm getting close to mmo vet status but that in no way makes me feel like my opinion is any more valid than anyone elses.
For me I'm a gamer and I like good games and am lucky enough to be able to be entertained through a myriad of ways so I like a good sandbox as much as a good themepark, I just think the sandbox communities arrogance works against them in really foolish ways thas has only set back the genre.
Far too often it's from that side the battle lines are drawn and it's sad because they are often the deepest and best players to play with. TOR is more often than not full of complaints etc. by sandbox players and SWG vets (which are often the same thing) while games like Fallen Earth are simply ignored by people who prefer theme park game play.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
FE is a good game, I just personally found it bland and not my style of sandbox, but to each their own right?
Agreed just wish more of our community could think like that "to each their own".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Maybe but I agree with you even if you don't.
; )
And yes I would be more likely to play SWG than TOR again. I can't stand themeparks anymore . .. unless it is a themepark like the original EQ I will stay far away from it I decided. Fuck WOW and all of the dumbed-down games for casual players (sorry for the language).
Check out the hype for TOR. Most of the hype is about the storytelling . ... LOL . .. not my kind of game. Maybe if it was a choose your own adventure but if the flying battleship gameplay looks incredibly fun than I may buy it and play for a month to go through the story but don't see myself sticking around in that kind of game for long at all. If it was like the original than I would be a lot more likely to play for many many months.
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If they'd have stuck to the original game, I do think it would be a better game and more successful than it is, now. But that's not saying much. After it got the MMO treatment, its Star Wars skin really didn't matter much. Could be any sci-fi, or even fantasy setting and its positives would really be about the same in terms of gameplay.
Star Wars had a great many things that you could tack onto it, but I don't think that being a normal Joe out dusting crops was ever really part of it. All of its concepts were based on Campbells "The Heroes Journey", where an unlikely hero goes forth and does great things... not "goes forth and makes gradually better Blaster batteries"...
That's what Lucas's intent was. But once something in pop culture gets this big, it no longer belongs to that one person. So if they think the next movie should be about Uncle Owen, they're welcome to that. But I doubt most are that interested.
I think if the two developed and released side by side TOR would attract greater numbers in the current market and SWG would have attracted greater numbers in the market of it's day.
Sandbox is struggling because it requires more patience, more thought and more effort to get the full enjoyment out of the game world, but IMO provides a much much more immersive and rewarding experience for those that want to make the proper investment.
Why must you keep reminding me of that day?...
swgemu, release a final version already jesus.
There would be more people interested in KTOR because theme park MMOs appeal to more "gamers" than traditional sandbox MMORPGs.
I think more traditional MMORPG fans would be interested in a Pre-CU SWG experience than they are for another run of the mill linear theme park experience.......but the new MMO market now includes a lot more people than traditionall MMORPG gamers.
Let's look at it like this, I am glad to be in a unique position having entered the mmo genre at what is by alot considered to be the end of the "old school" with SWG.
Now let's look at numbers EQ1 I hear had peaked somewhere around 500k which was a number as far as subs go SWG may have reached only in one month (strange that even all the EQ people didn't stick with the game from the same company). Those are the traditional mmorpg fans and I think what you do is sell short some of those peoples hatred of SOE and what they did to SWG, those people in large enough numbers would shun the game simply to avoid helping SOE.
As stated by others this game would have to leave SOE's hands to even have a chance to match it's own numbers then graphics need to be overhauled, bugs fixed, content added.
The game had too many flaws and too many things going against it to ever be a viable contender to anything even it's former self.
Now maybe if Mark Zucker was one of those ravenous SWG fans there would be someone williing to spend a billion dollars to move this game towards what it could have been but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was an old school mmorpg player.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Both game types have time sinks (grind). The player that enjoys Sandbox MMORPGs doesn't see the chopping of wood, mining of ore, killing of random monsters for their face value.....they are a means to an end that they find value in.
The wood turns to furniture that the player sells to other players that have houses that need furnishing. The ore is made into armor and weapons so that they can equip themselves for combat. The killing of random monsters is done to earn some cash to buy a boat that you can use to become a fisherman or pirate. The CHOICE is in your path you wish to take to influence your server...or your world.
In most Theme Parks....all roads lead to gear. You might take a short detour to mine a node here, craft a potion there.......but it all leads to you inreasing your level and getting better gear. You can't get to endgame crafting, fishing, gathering, increasing your faction, or anything else thats considered time sinks in themepark MMOs. Ultimately, you have to strap on your weapon of choice and hack n' slash it to endgame.
I think you sell short the hunger that many traditional MMORPG fans have for a good game to play. The only good option for a well thought out Sandbox is EVE, and with that your limited to a stupid ship avatar and get to look at deep space your entire play experience.
If there is a place for Ultima Online in todays market (and there is.....EA is still pumping out expansions), then there is a place for one of the better intergrations of sandbox / linear game play.
Maybe I'm not taking the OPs statement as literal as I should be......but what I took from his question is whether or not more people would be interested in playing a Starwars IP MMORPG that is completely different than the WOW standard, or would they be more interested in playing a Starwars IP MMO that is WOW 2.0 with a few droids and lightsabers.
And to that, I answered WOW 2.0 due to the diverse mix of gamers that is now considered the "MMO" market base.
I'm not sure that I would call it "WoW 2.0" just because I see World of Warcraft as part of a development line.
What I would say is MMO players who started with EverQuest or a similar "level game" would most likely what that kind of game. The simple reason is that it is what is familiar to them.
There is a larger base of MMO players that are looking for the Raid, "metal chest" etc that has the "uber item" for them. In comparison to the player base where crafted items were the end all be all or as good as anything else. There is certainly a large enough subscriber base for both types of games. Yet it seems development houses and their financial counter parts only look at the big WoW numbers these days.
TOR. People would maybe try the pre-cu but it would be buggy and broken since they haven't worked on it for the last 5 years or so. Also many people lost trust in SOE and will never try or look at another one of their games.
While Pre-cu was good, times have changed and i bet the minute people go back to the pre-cu they would realize it wasn't as great as they remembered and leave.