People dont wanna have to think they wanna be hold by the hand and lead the way from the begin to the end and best on the way get item exp and gold rewards.
I do like quests too tho but i do read the Quests most ppls just skip it look at there map go to the X kill the mobs come bk and cash in the big reward.
They dont want quests all they want is someone telling them what to do and get rewards for doing nothing really.
So why should u go and kill stuff if not because some farmer tells u to?
Hmm lets see in 14 i was told that i should check bk with the Adventures Guild once i am stronger so for me it was clear i would go and lvl up because i wanna know whats going on in the story i wanted to advance in it so there was my motivation if u cant motivate u on your own than obviously this sort of game is not for u.
I realy hope they will add quests like they did in 11 tho but most of u wouldn't wanna play this quests than right?? What no ex rewards no gold rewards and barely any usefull items as rewards what a waste of my time. I for once loved this kind of quests i did it for the story but u wouldn't would u? You claim all u want is a reason to kill stuff the truth is most of u just wanna be hold by the hand and get rewarded following the ??? the whole game long.
Why? Depends, do you think of FFXIV as a western game (WoW, Lotro, EQ2) or a Korean game (Lineage, Aoin etc).
The first have developed into chained quest games, were a story is told as you play, not just a main story but each quest has a reason. Somebody wants you to kill ten bears for a reason. This isn't just about story telling, it helps the design of the game as you can "force" the player to go to certain places, therefor spreading them around.
It is here that FFXIV makes one of its biggest mistakes. The leaves are CONSTANTLY going to be crowded because everyone has to return there over and over again. This is NOT like a hub in say Lotro like Bree were you can spend hours not entering the city if questing in Bree land. If every single quest in Bree land required you to go back and forth to Bree jail, how do you think that area would perform?
It also spreads people out across mobs. Sure mob X might be harder then mob Y, but the quests requires mob X, so just deal with it. In Star Wars Galaxies everyone and their dog hunted naffs. The naff hunt (real name longer but nobody used it) was the meal ticket. Harder mobs were used but NOBODY hunted one good quest mob that did awful wound damage. People are efficient and want the minimum of effort for the maximum result. So nobody is going to stray far from the base or hunt difficult mobs unless the game pushes them along.
Korean games are played differently, they often play in internet cafe's and grind "simpler" games because that makes it easy to join up randomly. In WoW and Lotro and EQ2, you got to plan a group to make sure everyone has the right stuff and the right goal. In a Korean game, anyone in the same area is killing the same stuff. It makes casual grouping far easier. No raidplanner for asian MMO's.
Some people LIKE this. It is their good right. The rub occurs when a game isn't very clear about what style of gameplay it is going to offer. I think FFXIV's biggest failure is that it didn't make it bloody clear this was going to be a korean grind fest. People should have expected this from the original, but might have forgotten.
The Korean game fans in the meantime, like the OP can't understand all the disappointment. They don't like story quests, can't be bothered to read endless text, might not even be able too (not everyone enjoys reading English) and just want to hack and slash with their friends on an evening.
But the internet is about YOU being right and everyone else being wrong, so both groups begrudge each other their games.
This argument will never be settled. The OP certainly doesn't help. He attacks western MMO's because he doesn't like them, then cries people attack his MMO.
Some need a quest others don't, but we all need content.
The FFXIV's problem is not the lack of quests, or a reason to go kill 1000 more marmots, the problem is that there are only 3-4 mobs to grind for each ten level bracket scattered, or roaming, empty copy paste landscapes.
Grinding on old EQ was fine for me, being it solo or in a group. You had choices of where to grind and a variety of creatures to kill, you explored a bit and could find a camp, hidden or not that hidden, of X creatures that made sense being there. To help with the grind you always had the chance to find some nice loot (items or wealth) while doing it, that enough was a reason to be there.
Here, unless you are a crafter grinding mobs to get materials for personal use, grinding the same mobs over and over under the same landscape gets boring soon, moreso when other than the ocasional pelt that sells for decent gil to npcs there is no: "Yikes! I found something valuable" carrot factor.
Is this seriously a thread basically asking why an MMO should have content? Quests like them or not are just padding for content in an MMO. Questing is often slower than going out and grinding even in a game like WoW when done correctly, so it is also a great way developers can keep their players busy and having fun.
FFXIV can not even be compared to a korean grindfest standard because there is no point to leveling in FFXIV. There are no dungeons. There is no pvp. There is no political system or any reward for high level players. In FFXIV you grind to be able to follow a single quest line. That is my personal issue with FFXIV and why I do not like it's design at all. And the questline wasn't that interesting for me either so it turned out to be a complete waste of time.
Because I'm not a homicidal maniac, I need a reason to kill something beyond "its standing there".
About the same for me ;-)
Also, quests give you more information about the location you're in (well, most of the time), giving depth to the village, land or even the world you "live" in. And with quests from several NPCs you also learn how they stand in the world.
Imagine a pen-n-paper RPG where the DM only has the rule set and hist Monstrous Companion. And all he does is present you the monsters from A trough Z and you have to kill them. No story, just a plain hack & slash. Not sure about you, but I'd be bored after the 1st kill...
Basically, quests add the extra flavour to the game. If I wanted to "kill to XP", I'd be playing Quake II.
people play MMOs to progress their characters. There are plenty of people who will just grind kills all day but the majority does not find that fun since it is not entertaining and generally quite boring. So sticking a quest in which rewards them when they finish now gives them a reason to go do it. It isn't rocket science.
In this day and age the majority of MMO players are questers. They want something to tell them what to do and then give them something for doing it. Most don't want to go to Zone A and setup a macro to kill things all day to level up to Zone B to do it again.
I need a reason to kill things. That scabby old women wants spider venom for her sores...ewwww or the pervy old guy wants a gift for his floosy but those are good enough reasons for me to go slaughter some mob skipping along .
This always reminds me of the remarks the random mobs in Anarchy Online would spout. The bird that said "I'll get my main" or the leet's "r u nubi" with those big rounds eyes. Now how could I slaughter those with no reasons ?
The trouble with grinding mobs for experience is that when done solo, it is extremely tedious and boring.
You brought up the example of EQ1 and it is a great choice, there was a game that strongly encouraged/forced/rewarded players for grouping up together and grinding is much cooler when you're doing it in a group. I had some great time grinding camps in DAOC back in the day, but it was a whole lot worse when I came back and solo'd to 50, even though the grind had been significantly reduced.
Questing makes for more interesting soloing, I'll freely admit that, right now I'm playing Fallen Earth and am really enjoying the story lines that play out in that game.
Some are quite disturbing, like the one where I had to "evict" a family because they didn't pay the bank their bill. They decided to fight back so I ended up assasinating them all. My only complaint is I wish I had been offered the chance to switch sides, I might have rethought my actions.
Another great one is one of the starter towns is taken over by raiders, who regularly (every few hours) execute a bunch of folks in the back of the town. Makes you really want to complete the quests and help these folks, even though their just NPC's. (sadly you never get to put a stop to the executions)
Contrast this with Aion, which when first launched the quest content really dried up for solo play (you could pug run dungeons ad naseum) and many players began to complain about the grind.
Like some others, I played Lineage 2 and I'll confess, after level 50 the grind really got to me and when WOW released I found the quests a refreshing change.
In the end, I like a mixture of everything, I like to solo, I like to grind with friends and even pug some dungeons, and so far there really hasn't been a game that has pulled off all 3 well. (at least not at the same time).
It has nothing to do with handholding, don't confuse a lack of a game for something like EVE where there are clear objectives to strive for even if the content isn't quest based,
I don't know if FFXIV has the same design, I think not since there is no end game to speak of, PVP or otherwise, so I'm not sure what the players are really playing for other than just because. (its fun?)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why do people insist that MMOs have to have endless amounts of quests to force players to kill xyz mob. FF takes a different path. The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus. You can invoke your guardian, but that is SE's version of rested xp and you can use all of it up with the current system.
My question is why can't people be happy killing stuff without quests? You'll find in FFXIV that you level quite quick if you just kill things.
Is the reliance on quests a result of WoW? Keep in mind Everquest, one of the most successful MMOs of all time had a quest system that was terrible, yet people still managed to kill things and have fun.
Here's the thing, most people don't like to do the same thing over and over and over again. You could argue it gets better as time goes on and you continue to progress gain skills and improve your character, this maybe true but If I hammered my hand to a wall over and over and over again for months sure eventually I would probably stop feeling the pain but thats not the point now is it.
The game is boring and unentertaining for a lot of people, this is why they want quests, or a variety of activities something to keep their minds off the grinding. For a lot of people leveling quickly is not as important as actually having fun while doing it. Sadly most of us don't enjoy randomlly killing mobs over and over anymore, games have evolved from this and so have our tastes.
I prefer killing species on par with me in means of protecting themselves.
Not much of a fan, personally, of killing weird sheep / bird hybrids for many levels. Maybe a sentient humanoid every so often with a purpose for wanting to run me through with a blade would be a nice change of pace.
Why is everyone in Ezoriaborina so obsessed with smashing all the flora and fauna? WHY!? Give me a reason why dammit!
They do nothing but rape and pillage at a rate that'd make one of those blue things from Avatar cry.
Why do people insist that MMOs have to have endless amounts of quests to force players to kill xyz mob. FF takes a different path. The quests don't offer an xp reward in this game, so the complaint that there aren't enough of them is bogus. You can invoke your guardian, but that is SE's version of rested xp and you can use all of it up with the current system.
My question is why can't people be happy killing stuff without quests? You'll find in FFXIV that you level quite quick if you just kill things.
Is the reliance on quests a result of WoW? Keep in mind Everquest, one of the most successful MMOs of all time had a quest system that was terrible, yet people still managed to kill things and have fun.
Here's the thing, most people don't like to do the same thing over and over and over again. You could argue it gets better as time goes on and you continue to progress gain skills and improve your character, this maybe true but If I hammered my hand to a wall over and over and over again for months sure eventually I would probably stop feeling the pain but thats not the point now is it.
Ok and if people hate4r doing the same thing over and over again why is the most popular mmo right now one focused on quests, which are just killing the same things over and over again?
Questing is just grinding that gives you a few more exp points and money/gear, thats it, its still grinding, if anything it can be slower since you have to run back to turn crap in.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
The reason I need quests to grind is usually just because it gives me some sort of goal. "Oh I just gotta kill 20 more of these to get a reward" it just pushes you towards a reward. Without it, you never feel like you are seriously getting anything other than levels from the grind, and I just like the bonus from quests.
When it come done to it. I love a good story and I love a good quest. It just adds to the game, gets me more immersed in the game world. Talented role players can also add alot of entertainment as well.
I liek quests, i like having a sense of purpose, i even enjoy the silly kill 10 x or deliver this stupid package half way around hte world quests.
I do quests just to gain some focus, no other reason, not for xp per hour or anything like that because i know grinding will always bee the most efficent method of progress, but i like having a reason to be at a particular part of the world at any given time.
Nothing wrong with a game having quests. I perosnally believe you should never run out of quests, everquest 2 did it right, WoW did it right, aion did ok with it, more quests, more quests, morequests.
thats all i gotta say.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
A game doesn't have to revolve around quests. Lineage 2 was not exactly strong on quests but even then you never ran out of them or kamas you could do or places to hunt (grind) or siege defenses you could go to.
Sure, I understand that there were, according to rumor, things to do in FFXIV, you just had to find them. But seriously, designing a game that is mostly boring that you have to trudge though find the fun stuff is not a solid game design plan. Especially when there is no strong indication that there will actually be any fun stuff to find when you get there.
In the end it took a few days for me to realize that I was having to force myself to play this game only hoping that it would become fun. Every day after work I wanted to play something else. So, eventually I did.
Comments
Yeah. You got it right, man.
BOOOM BABY BOOM!
People dont wanna have to think they wanna be hold by the hand and lead the way from the begin to the end and best on the way get item exp and gold rewards.
I do like quests too tho but i do read the Quests most ppls just skip it look at there map go to the X kill the mobs come bk and cash in the big reward.
They dont want quests all they want is someone telling them what to do and get rewards for doing nothing really.
So why should u go and kill stuff if not because some farmer tells u to?
Hmm lets see in 14 i was told that i should check bk with the Adventures Guild once i am stronger so for me it was clear i would go and lvl up because i wanna know whats going on in the story i wanted to advance in it so there was my motivation if u cant motivate u on your own than obviously this sort of game is not for u.
I realy hope they will add quests like they did in 11 tho but most of u wouldn't wanna play this quests than right?? What no ex rewards no gold rewards and barely any usefull items as rewards what a waste of my time. I for once loved this kind of quests i did it for the story but u wouldn't would u? You claim all u want is a reason to kill stuff the truth is most of u just wanna be hold by the hand and get rewarded following the ??? the whole game long.
Well for one having a purpose other than just thinking your a stone-cold mob killer is nice.
Why? Depends, do you think of FFXIV as a western game (WoW, Lotro, EQ2) or a Korean game (Lineage, Aoin etc).
The first have developed into chained quest games, were a story is told as you play, not just a main story but each quest has a reason. Somebody wants you to kill ten bears for a reason. This isn't just about story telling, it helps the design of the game as you can "force" the player to go to certain places, therefor spreading them around.
It is here that FFXIV makes one of its biggest mistakes. The leaves are CONSTANTLY going to be crowded because everyone has to return there over and over again. This is NOT like a hub in say Lotro like Bree were you can spend hours not entering the city if questing in Bree land. If every single quest in Bree land required you to go back and forth to Bree jail, how do you think that area would perform?
It also spreads people out across mobs. Sure mob X might be harder then mob Y, but the quests requires mob X, so just deal with it. In Star Wars Galaxies everyone and their dog hunted naffs. The naff hunt (real name longer but nobody used it) was the meal ticket. Harder mobs were used but NOBODY hunted one good quest mob that did awful wound damage. People are efficient and want the minimum of effort for the maximum result. So nobody is going to stray far from the base or hunt difficult mobs unless the game pushes them along.
Korean games are played differently, they often play in internet cafe's and grind "simpler" games because that makes it easy to join up randomly. In WoW and Lotro and EQ2, you got to plan a group to make sure everyone has the right stuff and the right goal. In a Korean game, anyone in the same area is killing the same stuff. It makes casual grouping far easier. No raidplanner for asian MMO's.
Some people LIKE this. It is their good right. The rub occurs when a game isn't very clear about what style of gameplay it is going to offer. I think FFXIV's biggest failure is that it didn't make it bloody clear this was going to be a korean grind fest. People should have expected this from the original, but might have forgotten.
The Korean game fans in the meantime, like the OP can't understand all the disappointment. They don't like story quests, can't be bothered to read endless text, might not even be able too (not everyone enjoys reading English) and just want to hack and slash with their friends on an evening.
But the internet is about YOU being right and everyone else being wrong, so both groups begrudge each other their games.
This argument will never be settled. The OP certainly doesn't help. He attacks western MMO's because he doesn't like them, then cries people attack his MMO.
Because I'm not a homicidal maniac, I need a reason to kill something beyond "its standing there".
Some need a quest others don't, but we all need content.
The FFXIV's problem is not the lack of quests, or a reason to go kill 1000 more marmots, the problem is that there are only 3-4 mobs to grind for each ten level bracket scattered, or roaming, empty copy paste landscapes.
Grinding on old EQ was fine for me, being it solo or in a group. You had choices of where to grind and a variety of creatures to kill, you explored a bit and could find a camp, hidden or not that hidden, of X creatures that made sense being there. To help with the grind you always had the chance to find some nice loot (items or wealth) while doing it, that enough was a reason to be there.
Here, unless you are a crafter grinding mobs to get materials for personal use, grinding the same mobs over and over under the same landscape gets boring soon, moreso when other than the ocasional pelt that sells for decent gil to npcs there is no: "Yikes! I found something valuable" carrot factor.
So in other words u need someone to tell u what to do all the time because u dont wanna do anything just for you?
That certainly is a trait that should be in high demand for the workworld......but guess it only counts for MMOS hmmm??
Is this seriously a thread basically asking why an MMO should have content? Quests like them or not are just padding for content in an MMO. Questing is often slower than going out and grinding even in a game like WoW when done correctly, so it is also a great way developers can keep their players busy and having fun.
FFXIV can not even be compared to a korean grindfest standard because there is no point to leveling in FFXIV. There are no dungeons. There is no pvp. There is no political system or any reward for high level players. In FFXIV you grind to be able to follow a single quest line. That is my personal issue with FFXIV and why I do not like it's design at all. And the questline wasn't that interesting for me either so it turned out to be a complete waste of time.
About the same for me ;-)
Also, quests give you more information about the location you're in (well, most of the time), giving depth to the village, land or even the world you "live" in. And with quests from several NPCs you also learn how they stand in the world.
Imagine a pen-n-paper RPG where the DM only has the rule set and hist Monstrous Companion. And all he does is present you the monsters from A trough Z and you have to kill them. No story, just a plain hack & slash. Not sure about you, but I'd be bored after the 1st kill...
Basically, quests add the extra flavour to the game. If I wanted to "kill to XP", I'd be playing Quake II.
Nailed it.
people play MMOs to progress their characters. There are plenty of people who will just grind kills all day but the majority does not find that fun since it is not entertaining and generally quite boring. So sticking a quest in which rewards them when they finish now gives them a reason to go do it. It isn't rocket science.
In this day and age the majority of MMO players are questers. They want something to tell them what to do and then give them something for doing it. Most don't want to go to Zone A and setup a macro to kill things all day to level up to Zone B to do it again.
I need a reason to kill things. That scabby old women wants spider venom for her sores...ewwww or the pervy old guy wants a gift for his floosy but those are good enough reasons for me to go slaughter some mob skipping along .
This always reminds me of the remarks the random mobs in Anarchy Online would spout. The bird that said "I'll get my main" or the leet's "r u nubi" with those big rounds eyes. Now how could I slaughter those with no reasons ?
Grinding is considerably more fun when you can actually find mobs to grind.
All die, so die well.
The trouble with grinding mobs for experience is that when done solo, it is extremely tedious and boring.
You brought up the example of EQ1 and it is a great choice, there was a game that strongly encouraged/forced/rewarded players for grouping up together and grinding is much cooler when you're doing it in a group. I had some great time grinding camps in DAOC back in the day, but it was a whole lot worse when I came back and solo'd to 50, even though the grind had been significantly reduced.
Questing makes for more interesting soloing, I'll freely admit that, right now I'm playing Fallen Earth and am really enjoying the story lines that play out in that game.
Some are quite disturbing, like the one where I had to "evict" a family because they didn't pay the bank their bill. They decided to fight back so I ended up assasinating them all. My only complaint is I wish I had been offered the chance to switch sides, I might have rethought my actions.
Another great one is one of the starter towns is taken over by raiders, who regularly (every few hours) execute a bunch of folks in the back of the town. Makes you really want to complete the quests and help these folks, even though their just NPC's. (sadly you never get to put a stop to the executions)
Contrast this with Aion, which when first launched the quest content really dried up for solo play (you could pug run dungeons ad naseum) and many players began to complain about the grind.
Like some others, I played Lineage 2 and I'll confess, after level 50 the grind really got to me and when WOW released I found the quests a refreshing change.
In the end, I like a mixture of everything, I like to solo, I like to grind with friends and even pug some dungeons, and so far there really hasn't been a game that has pulled off all 3 well. (at least not at the same time).
It has nothing to do with handholding, don't confuse a lack of a game for something like EVE where there are clear objectives to strive for even if the content isn't quest based,
I don't know if FFXIV has the same design, I think not since there is no end game to speak of, PVP or otherwise, so I'm not sure what the players are really playing for other than just because. (its fun?)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Here's the thing, most people don't like to do the same thing over and over and over again. You could argue it gets better as time goes on and you continue to progress gain skills and improve your character, this maybe true but If I hammered my hand to a wall over and over and over again for months sure eventually I would probably stop feeling the pain but thats not the point now is it.
The game is boring and unentertaining for a lot of people, this is why they want quests, or a variety of activities something to keep their minds off the grinding. For a lot of people leveling quickly is not as important as actually having fun while doing it. Sadly most of us don't enjoy randomlly killing mobs over and over anymore, games have evolved from this and so have our tastes.
I like killing things.
I prefer killing species on par with me in means of protecting themselves.
Not much of a fan, personally, of killing weird sheep / bird hybrids for many levels. Maybe a sentient humanoid every so often with a purpose for wanting to run me through with a blade would be a nice change of pace.
Why is everyone in Ezoriaborina so obsessed with smashing all the flora and fauna? WHY!? Give me a reason why dammit!
They do nothing but rape and pillage at a rate that'd make one of those blue things from Avatar cry.
Ok and if people hate4r doing the same thing over and over again why is the most popular mmo right now one focused on quests, which are just killing the same things over and over again?
Questing is just grinding that gives you a few more exp points and money/gear, thats it, its still grinding, if anything it can be slower since you have to run back to turn crap in.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
The reason I need quests to grind is usually just because it gives me some sort of goal. "Oh I just gotta kill 20 more of these to get a reward" it just pushes you towards a reward. Without it, you never feel like you are seriously getting anything other than levels from the grind, and I just like the bonus from quests.
why do we need quests to motivate us to kill things is similar to asking why do we need a paycheck to work 40hrs a week.
This is the perfect analogy imo :P
Very well said
When it come done to it. I love a good story and I love a good quest. It just adds to the game, gets me more immersed in the game world. Talented role players can also add alot of entertainment as well.
What do I play these games for?
to be entertained
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I liek quests, i like having a sense of purpose, i even enjoy the silly kill 10 x or deliver this stupid package half way around hte world quests.
I do quests just to gain some focus, no other reason, not for xp per hour or anything like that because i know grinding will always bee the most efficent method of progress, but i like having a reason to be at a particular part of the world at any given time.
Nothing wrong with a game having quests. I perosnally believe you should never run out of quests, everquest 2 did it right, WoW did it right, aion did ok with it, more quests, more quests, morequests.
thats all i gotta say.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Except at work, my inbox is never empty.
All die, so die well.
Are you kidding?
Would Fallout have been game of the year if it just involved standing in the wasteland aimlessly killing mole rats?
A game doesn't have to revolve around quests. Lineage 2 was not exactly strong on quests but even then you never ran out of them or kamas you could do or places to hunt (grind) or siege defenses you could go to.
Sure, I understand that there were, according to rumor, things to do in FFXIV, you just had to find them. But seriously, designing a game that is mostly boring that you have to trudge though find the fun stuff is not a solid game design plan. Especially when there is no strong indication that there will actually be any fun stuff to find when you get there.
In the end it took a few days for me to realize that I was having to force myself to play this game only hoping that it would become fun. Every day after work I wanted to play something else. So, eventually I did.
All die, so die well.