Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
You are a good person. I was too tired to do this.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
That's two years of being in MASSIVE debt. And that's assuming that people keep paying to play.
Historically, MMOs sell most and have the most subs in the first month, then the population dies off. In a game like this, even more so. People will burn through the storyline, get bored, and leave. Not enough new to keep them around. So, subs will probably plummet after the first 3 months. They'd need 2 YEARS of a solid 1 mil subs in order to even break even, much less make a profit. Considering only ONE MMO to date has done that, and it was a fluke... yeah.. not looking good.
So that is IF they are a SMASHING RUNNAWAY success, they still won't make ANY money for over two years. Yikes.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
That's two years of being in MASSIVE debt. And that's assuming that people keep paying to play.
Historically, MMOs sell most and have the most subs in the first month, then the population dies off. In a game like this, even more so. People will burn through the storyline, get bored, and leave. Not enough new to keep them around. So, subs will probably plummet after the first 3 months. They'd need 2 YEARS of a solid 1 mil subs in order to even break even, much less make a profit. Considering only ONE MMO to date has done that, and it was a fluke... yeah.. not looking good.
So that is IF they are a SMASHING RUNNAWAY success, they still won't make ANY money for over two years. Yikes.
Not massive debt. Maybe they would be out 300 mil, but they have the money. But that's all part of the industry. EA does this all the time, but usually 10 games at a time. I imagine they will be producing less games that year to help make up or it.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
That's two years of being in MASSIVE debt. And that's assuming that people keep paying to play.
Historically, MMOs sell most and have the most subs in the first month, then the population dies off. In a game like this, even more so. People will burn through the storyline, get bored, and leave. Not enough new to keep them around. So, subs will probably plummet after the first 3 months. They'd need 2 YEARS of a solid 1 mil subs in order to even break even, much less make a profit. Considering only ONE MMO to date has done that, and it was a fluke... yeah.. not looking good.
So that is IF they are a SMASHING RUNNAWAY success, they still won't make ANY money for over two years. Yikes.
Not happy huh, gotta fail for you? okay fine it may fail or it could be a smash hit. I'm assuming low in a lot of my figures, for one 1M at least on the boards is the bottom amount they expect to see for box sales . 2 Million being the top, so staying in the middle lets say they have 1.5M box sales.
thats 75M to be fair which is probably closer to what they will probably get. Second those numbers will move around a lot at first. First it will be really high for a couple of months while everyone blows through the content (remember theres 8 classes worth of content as per BW claims) Then you got end game, which includes raiding, pvp, and other quests. Then it will drop as those not interested in the other features or the buzz wears off, then it will continue to bounce until they sit at a certain number (i have no way to know what this number is at the moment)
I also rounded up a lot for assuming that it bounces around a lot, if they sit at 2M customers they can make that up in half the time, a year or less. It took me 5 years to get out of debt from a school loan. If EA sees good sales and steady numbers they will hold out that long, as anything after is massive profit for them. Not to mention good publicity that they could seriously use right now, considering their link to Warhammer.
As for the article. He speculating just like i am. Sure he may have thought about it longer, but it's still possible. Either way it doesn't matter too much we will see at launch exactly how it does. Personally myself i hope it succeeds because i like stories in my game and more so in my MMOs, wandering around aimlessly is not really my thing.
To each their own but right now, it could go either way and they are banking on it winning.
(keep in mind these figures i'm basing off of are the 300M, which so far i've only heard mister EA talk about and even the article says it's not confirmed) EDIT: i'll also throw this link http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ea-expects-2-million-subs-for-swtor EA seems pretty confident that they can get 2M subs for this. Of course this is EA but they seem pretty confident on it.
It's pretty clear where we stand, You want the game to fail or are at least banking on it that it will and i'm banking on it will succeed, and frankly we have gone so far off topic that i'm afraid a mod will come in and lock the thread. So can we agree to disagree on this aspect and get back to the topic of the space content?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
That's two years of being in MASSIVE debt. And that's assuming that people keep paying to play.
Historically, MMOs sell most and have the most subs in the first month, then the population dies off. In a game like this, even more so. People will burn through the storyline, get bored, and leave. Not enough new to keep them around. So, subs will probably plummet after the first 3 months. They'd need 2 YEARS of a solid 1 mil subs in order to even break even, much less make a profit. Considering only ONE MMO to date has done that, and it was a fluke... yeah.. not looking good.
So that is IF they are a SMASHING RUNNAWAY success, they still won't make ANY money for over two years. Yikes.
Not happy huh, gotta fail for you? okay fine it may fail or it could be a smash hit. I'm assuming low in a lot of my figures, for one 1M at least on the boards is the bottom amount they expect to see for box sales . 2 Million being the top, so staying in the middle lets say they have 1.5M box sales.
thats 75M to be fair which is probably closer to what they will probably get. Second those numbers will move around a lot at first. First it will be really high for a couple of months while everyone blows through the content (remember theres 8 classes worth of content as per BW claims) Then you got end game, which includes raiding, pvp, and other quests. Then it will drop as those not interested in the other features or the buzz wears off, then it will continue to bounce until they sit at a certain number (i have no way to know what this number is at the moment)
I also rounded up a lot for assuming that it bounces around a lot, if they sit at 2M customers they can make that up in half the time, a year or less. It took me 5 years to get out of debt from a school loan. If EA sees good sales and steady numbers they will hold out that long, as anything after is massive profit for them. Not to mention good publicity that they could seriously use right now, considering their link to Warhammer.
As for the article. He speculating just like i am. Sure he may have thought about it longer, but it's still possible. Either way it doesn't matter too much we will see at launch exactly how it does. Personally myself i hope it succeeds because i like stories in my game and more so in my MMOs, wandering around aimlessly is not really my thing.
To each their own but right now, it could go either way and they are banking on it winning.
(keep in mind these figures i'm basing off of are the 300M, which so far i've only heard mister EA talk about and even the article says it's not confirmed) EDIT: i'll also throw this link http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ea-expects-2-million-subs-for-swtor EA seems pretty confident that they can get 2M subs for this. Of course this is EA but they seem pretty confident on it.
It's pretty clear where we stand, You want the game to fail or are at least banking on it that it will and i'm banking on it will succeed, and frankly we have gone so far off topic that i'm afraid a mod will come in and lock the thread. So can we agree to disagree on this aspect and get back to the topic of the space content?
EA was pretty confident about WAR too if you recall.
Bottom line is, this, and all your dancing and ignoring facts and MMO history won't save this.
Unless this game is an online revolution, it will be a financial failure, and the company stands to NOT be making money for at LEAST 2 years.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
That's two years of being in MASSIVE debt. And that's assuming that people keep paying to play.
Historically, MMOs sell most and have the most subs in the first month, then the population dies off. In a game like this, even more so. People will burn through the storyline, get bored, and leave. Not enough new to keep them around. So, subs will probably plummet after the first 3 months. They'd need 2 YEARS of a solid 1 mil subs in order to even break even, much less make a profit. Considering only ONE MMO to date has done that, and it was a fluke... yeah.. not looking good.
So that is IF they are a SMASHING RUNNAWAY success, they still won't make ANY money for over two years. Yikes.
Not happy huh, gotta fail for you? okay fine it may fail or it could be a smash hit. I'm assuming low in a lot of my figures, for one 1M at least on the boards is the bottom amount they expect to see for box sales . 2 Million being the top, so staying in the middle lets say they have 1.5M box sales.
thats 75M to be fair which is probably closer to what they will probably get. Second those numbers will move around a lot at first. First it will be really high for a couple of months while everyone blows through the content (remember theres 8 classes worth of content as per BW claims) Then you got end game, which includes raiding, pvp, and other quests. Then it will drop as those not interested in the other features or the buzz wears off, then it will continue to bounce until they sit at a certain number (i have no way to know what this number is at the moment)
I also rounded up a lot for assuming that it bounces around a lot, if they sit at 2M customers they can make that up in half the time, a year or less. It took me 5 years to get out of debt from a school loan. If EA sees good sales and steady numbers they will hold out that long, as anything after is massive profit for them. Not to mention good publicity that they could seriously use right now, considering their link to Warhammer.
As for the article. He speculating just like i am. Sure he may have thought about it longer, but it's still possible. Either way it doesn't matter too much we will see at launch exactly how it does. Personally myself i hope it succeeds because i like stories in my game and more so in my MMOs, wandering around aimlessly is not really my thing.
To each their own but right now, it could go either way and they are banking on it winning.
(keep in mind these figures i'm basing off of are the 300M, which so far i've only heard mister EA talk about and even the article says it's not confirmed) EDIT: i'll also throw this link http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ea-expects-2-million-subs-for-swtor EA seems pretty confident that they can get 2M subs for this. Of course this is EA but they seem pretty confident on it.
It's pretty clear where we stand, You want the game to fail or are at least banking on it that it will and i'm banking on it will succeed, and frankly we have gone so far off topic that i'm afraid a mod will come in and lock the thread. So can we agree to disagree on this aspect and get back to the topic of the space content?
EA was pretty confident about WAR too if you recall.
Bottom line is, this, and all your dancing and ignoring facts and MMO history won't save this.
Unless this game is an online revolution, it will be a financial failure, and the company stands to NOT be making money for at LEAST 2 years.
I seem to recall WAR sold a ton of copies, and then didnt give players content.
I like how you keep trying to twist things to fit your agenda.
So here we go again, first it was trying to compare a game vs another and its expansion, now it is a PVP game vs a story based themepark.
We all know what the market has shown....if you give a buggy launch, and nothing to do, then subs drop lke hotcakes. LoTRO is the only AAA to really do good with NA sub retention, at launch, since WoW.
Anything else you wanna keep repeating?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
They aren't, because many of them would not touch the type of games that original MMORPGs were. What they play is something entirely different, hardly massive, and hardly multiplayer, with RPG mechanics taken out of a kids game. Logic implies that if two things are completely different, they aren't the same thing. And no, its not "sandbox vs themepark" as you were quick to jump to as a strawman, because not all old MMOs were sandbox games, or simulations of any kind.
Let's call these older MMORPG's oldschool MMO's. Do any poll or survey and the following becomes clear: hundreds of thousands of MMORPG gamers of these oldschool MMORPG's went on to play these themepark MMORPG's as WoW, LotrO, AoC and so on. They didn't die out, they just started playing the new MMORPG's that appeared. In fact, the majority of these oldschool MMO gamers has been or still is playing themepark MMO's.
In your definition, that makes them no MMORPG gamers. In your definition, MMORPG's and MMORPG gamers are dying out, because in your definition 'true' MMORPG's are a niche of the current MMORPG market.
It's clear that your definition is clearly not that of the world's definition for MMORPG and MMORPG gamer, making you something like one of the last dinosaurs in the Age of Man.
Um, yes? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out someone would be upset over their favorite genre of gaming ceasing to exist. I imagine you'd see a lot of angry FPS gamers if they suddenly stopped making FPS games And you yourself just admitted that the genre has changed enough to be considered "world changing". So quick you are to insult and poke fun, but when your favorite genre melts around you, I'll be here to say "Get with the times you stupid dinosaur lolololzfzfdfllolf rofl .
Heh, it was an analogy, pal, about the way you acted and perceived things, not about the genre itself. Sure there have been changes of which a number of them I'm not that happy about, but it doesn't mean I can't enjoy the MMORPG's coming out. I went on from a EQ and DAoC to a EQ2, WoW, GW, and so on.
Funny you should say that, considering it was the second most popular MMORPG at the time, as I said, but you conveniently ignored. People left for two reasons though. Bad ideas (the Jedi system) and the NGE, which has been covered to death. The massive exodus didn't happen until SoE killed their own game, and it certainly wasn't to EQ2, becuase EQ2 wasn't doing well either, most just stopped playing MMOs. .
Naah, you're wrong. Enough people commented again and again about how they played SWG but didn't like it that much, even got bored with it before any NGE, EQ2 and WoW were bursting with SWG guilds that had made the transition to the new MMORPG's in full, and figures clearly show how the dip happened.
As your former statements already showed, you are not representative for the MMORPG gamers as a whole, even far from. It should be obvious that your liking SWG wasn't the same taste and likes that other MMORPG gamers have.
You haven't proven anything with your comments, only that my statements were right as you as a sandbox lover showed with your comments and stance I'm actually not a sandbox MMO gamer, I played Dark Age of Camelot for 7 years, tried SWG 3 different times, and left for different reasons each time. Wow, you don't like themepark MMO's, you don't like sandbox MMORPG's, no wonder that you can find none MMORPG whatsoever for you to play. You really are a dinosaur. When do you finally realise that maybe MMORPG's is just not the genre for you anymore, and maybe hasn't been that for a long time?
In orange. I skipped some of your comments, they were just too silly to make a sensible comment about.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
had full space flight on a much smaller budget, this is just pathetic.
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
People aren't touching it because SoE broke the game. The space flight is one of the only redeemable qualities about SWG now. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned, new to MMOs or something?
Jump to Lightspeed is one of the most critically acclaimed MMO expansions TO DATE. It won awards when it came out. And Eve is proof people like open ended space games. It's currently one of the most successful MMOs on the market.
SoE didn't break the space game. Read my statement above. If it were so "great", more people would be PLAYING SWG specifically FOR space! They aren't. Space is empty. It isn't nearly the draw you think it is. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned.
Bottom line is, this, and all your dancing and ignoring facts and MMO history won't save this.
Unless this game is an online revolution, it will be a financial failure, and the company stands to NOT be making money for at LEAST 2 years.
It doesn't have to be an online revolution, it just has to appeal to the average person.
Like this. Some people might like to see SW:TOR fail for whatever morbid reason, but there can be no dancing on the graves whatsoever until something is live first. For the rest it's all speculation up till then, it's funny though how people are complaining how SW:TOR has too high a budget and can easily believe those shaky figures, while at the same time doubting that there'll be a vast amount of content and Planets to explore. Simply hilarious how illogical the human mind in some cases of some people works.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
and the dev was [...] making fun of the guy asking saying "yeah, because in star wars, han and chewie just got in the falcon and said "let's d*ck around, let's fly off that way and go mine that asteroid for loot. No? We didn't see that either. What we saw in the movies is them going forward a lot either into a fight or zooming from one planet to another".
And people want to say "wait till it comes out to judge it".
Basically, that dev acted completely unprofessional in response [...]
I fail to see why this is unprofessional. All of Bioware games I can think of are pretty directed content (=heavily story driven) games. Star Wars always and ever was based on a strong adventure plot structure with plenty of cliff-hangers and episodic action scenes (where heroes essentially stumble from trouble into more trouble). I cannot stress enough that this is at the very core of the experience and ever was, except in this one bizarro star warsl game, which was about things like the colonialisation of Tatooine or being a pikeneer or cook. Well, who ever dreamed of being a cook in the star wars universe. I realize there are fans for almost anything, but you have to see that this is a very, very minor minority that make people dressing up as star wars furries and attending conventions look like mainstream.
I fail to see why it was unprofessional to give a straight and honest, non-marketing answer.
and the dev was [...] making fun of the guy asking saying "yeah, because in star wars, han and chewie just got in the falcon and said "let's d*ck around, let's fly off that way and go mine that asteroid for loot. No? We didn't see that either. What we saw in the movies is them going forward a lot either into a fight or zooming from one planet to another".
And people want to say "wait till it comes out to judge it".
Basically, that dev acted completely unprofessional in response [...]
I fail to see why this is unprofessional. All of Bioware games I can think of are pretty directed content (=heavily story driven) games. Star Wars always and ever was based on a strong adventure plot structure with plenty of cliff-hangers and episodic action scenes (where heroes essentially stumble from trouble into more trouble). I cannot stress enough that this is at the very core of the experience and ever was, except in this one bizarro star warsl game, which was about things like the colonialisation of Tatooine or being a pikeneer or cook. Well, who ever dreamed of being a cook in the star wars universe. I realize there are fans for almost anything, but you have to see that this is a very, very minor minority that make people dressing up as star wars furries and attending conventions look like mainstream.
I fail to see why it was unprofessional to give a straight and honest, non-marketing answer.
As best described by one of the Bioware game directors: "Remember that part in star wars where Han and Chewy stopped and flew around exploring asteroids? We don't either."
As best described by one of the Bioware game directors: "Remember that part in star wars where Han and Chewy stopped and flew around exploring asteroids? We don't either."
Remember that part in Star Wars where half the population was Jedi, people gained levels, there was a market to buy and sell items, people upgraded gear, people shot infinite missiles from an arm cannon and quests were given out to kill things?
As best described by one of the Bioware game directors: "Remember that part in star wars where Han and Chewy stopped and flew around exploring asteroids? We don't either."
Remember that part in Star Wars where half the population was Jedi, people gained levels, there was a market to buy and sell items, people upgraded gear, people shot infinite missiles from an arm cannon and quests were given out to kill things?
I don't either.
That's why they chose the era they did, because there were a lot more Jedi And I recall seeing several markets throughout the movies. And while we never saw the number values, we definintely watched luke gain force power and new abilities. And people were given quests, as well.
As best described by one of the Bioware game directors: "Remember that part in star wars where Han and Chewy stopped and flew around exploring asteroids? We don't either."
Remember that part in Star Wars where half the population was Jedi, people gained levels, there was a market to buy and sell items, people upgraded gear, people shot infinite missiles from an arm cannon and quests were given out to kill things?
I don't either.
That's why they chose the era they did, because there were a lot more Jedi And I recall seeing several markets throughout the movies. And while we never saw the number values, we definintely watched luke gain force power and new abilities. And people were given quests, as well.
Wuuuutt. Come on... ridiculous. It's a game. That's the point.
If we are going to follow your reasoning, then yes, I saw and was aware of spaceships out in space exploring and going places. There were ships going all over the place. They could turn right if they chose to. And believe it or not, they turned left too.
Star Wars space combat is about dogfights. The tunnel takes that excitement completely away, takes any tactical or strategic thought out and replaces it with button mashing.
Asking for space to not be in a tunnel does not necessarily mean wanting it to be a free roam sandbox. Anyone play Snoopy's Flying Ace from Xbox Arcade? There wasn't anything sandboxy about it at all, but I could at least fly around things, loop back, juke to dodge fire, etc. I didn't fly in that game to "explore," it was about shooting down other players or capturing the flag and other such excitement. And I didn't have to just go forward in a tunnel.
Really, what I expect from a Star Wars space experience is similar to the Wing Commander experience.
I'd love it, but even if they didn't go that far . . . I'd like to just be able to fly around an asteroid to shake fire, rather than just move a little to the side to avoid hitting it until I reach the end of the map. I'd like it to matter, I guess, if they're going to bother.
Isn't LucasArts responsible for the X-Wing game? Also X-Wing versus Tie Fighter? What happened? How did LucasArts go from amazing 3d space shooter to tube/tunnel rail minigame?
It would be like BioWare putting out a game that had no story in it.
Rogue Squadron is pretty much a lightly modified tube shooter. It was a fantastic game as well and I still go back and nostalgia with it once a year or so just to beat it just because it is that good. If this game is even half as good as RS then I will be a happy man.
Personally, I don't think they ever intended on having space content in the game at launch. I think pressure from the community forced their hand and as a result, we have a sub-par space experience. I don't really see what's so wrong with waiting for an expansion to fully-flesh out the space combat. It was always a secondary priority when compared to ground content and should have been allowed time for the development team to truly sink their teeth to it.
Personally, I don't think they ever intended on having space content in the game at launch. I think pressure from the community forced their hand and as a result, we have a sub-par space experience. I don't really see what's so wrong with waiting for an expansion to fully-flesh out the space combat. It was always a secondary priority when compared to ground content and should have been allowed time for the development team to truly sink their teeth to it.
I do think you are wrong.
II'd say it was one of the very first major decisions to include it at launch vs never add it. Check Gordon Walton for the SWG analysis (that's bull*** anyway).
Among other decisions another one, very controversial, that was taken long time ago too, was the choice of a WoW/Kotor like crafting system vs SWG's one.
Personally, I don't think they ever intended on having space content in the game at launch. I think pressure from the community forced their hand and as a result, we have a sub-par space experience. I don't really see what's so wrong with waiting for an expansion to fully-flesh out the space combat. It was always a secondary priority when compared to ground content and should have been allowed time for the development team to truly sink their teeth to it.
I do think you are wrong.
II'd say it was one of the very first major decisions to include it at launch vs never add it. Check Gordon Walton for the SWG analysis (that's bull*** anyway).
Among other decisions another one, very controversial, that was taken long time ago too, was the choice of a WoW/Kotor like crafting system vs SWG's one.
Got a link to where they've said what their crafting system will be?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Personally, I don't think they ever intended on having space content in the game at launch. I think pressure from the community forced their hand and as a result, we have a sub-par space experience. I don't really see what's so wrong with waiting for an expansion to fully-flesh out the space combat. It was always a secondary priority when compared to ground content and should have been allowed time for the development team to truly sink their teeth to it.
I do think you are wrong.
II'd say it was one of the very first major decisions to include it at launch vs never add it. Check Gordon Walton for the SWG analysis (that's bull*** anyway).
Among other decisions another one, very controversial, that was taken long time ago too, was the choice of a WoW/Kotor like crafting system vs SWG's one.
Got a link to where they've said what their crafting system will be?
"The big thing about crafting is that it will support combat in our game and it is very important. We haven't talked much about crafting, but we will in the future. People will be pleased with what we are coming up with for crafting. I think very pleased actually. It will not be to the extent of some of the games out there, like [Star Wars] Galaxies. It will be very similar to what WoW has. But it has some really cool twists that WoW doesn't have that I think people will like."
Regarding what we saw, I foresee the twists as part options for the weapons, maybe even different textures like:
Comments
You are a good person. I was too tired to do this.
That's two years of being in MASSIVE debt. And that's assuming that people keep paying to play.
Historically, MMOs sell most and have the most subs in the first month, then the population dies off. In a game like this, even more so. People will burn through the storyline, get bored, and leave. Not enough new to keep them around. So, subs will probably plummet after the first 3 months. They'd need 2 YEARS of a solid 1 mil subs in order to even break even, much less make a profit. Considering only ONE MMO to date has done that, and it was a fluke... yeah.. not looking good.
So that is IF they are a SMASHING RUNNAWAY success, they still won't make ANY money for over two years. Yikes.
Better answer.
http://ardwulfslair.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/swtor-will-fail-with-numbers-to-prove-it/
Not massive debt. Maybe they would be out 300 mil, but they have the money. But that's all part of the industry. EA does this all the time, but usually 10 games at a time. I imagine they will be producing less games that year to help make up or it.
Not happy huh, gotta fail for you? okay fine it may fail or it could be a smash hit. I'm assuming low in a lot of my figures, for one 1M at least on the boards is the bottom amount they expect to see for box sales . 2 Million being the top, so staying in the middle lets say they have 1.5M box sales.
thats 75M to be fair which is probably closer to what they will probably get. Second those numbers will move around a lot at first. First it will be really high for a couple of months while everyone blows through the content (remember theres 8 classes worth of content as per BW claims) Then you got end game, which includes raiding, pvp, and other quests. Then it will drop as those not interested in the other features or the buzz wears off, then it will continue to bounce until they sit at a certain number (i have no way to know what this number is at the moment)
I also rounded up a lot for assuming that it bounces around a lot, if they sit at 2M customers they can make that up in half the time, a year or less. It took me 5 years to get out of debt from a school loan. If EA sees good sales and steady numbers they will hold out that long, as anything after is massive profit for them. Not to mention good publicity that they could seriously use right now, considering their link to Warhammer.
As for the article. He speculating just like i am. Sure he may have thought about it longer, but it's still possible. Either way it doesn't matter too much we will see at launch exactly how it does. Personally myself i hope it succeeds because i like stories in my game and more so in my MMOs, wandering around aimlessly is not really my thing.
To each their own but right now, it could go either way and they are banking on it winning.
(keep in mind these figures i'm basing off of are the 300M, which so far i've only heard mister EA talk about and even the article says it's not confirmed) EDIT: i'll also throw this link http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ea-expects-2-million-subs-for-swtor EA seems pretty confident that they can get 2M subs for this. Of course this is EA but they seem pretty confident on it.
It's pretty clear where we stand, You want the game to fail or are at least banking on it that it will and i'm banking on it will succeed, and frankly we have gone so far off topic that i'm afraid a mod will come in and lock the thread. So can we agree to disagree on this aspect and get back to the topic of the space content?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
EA was pretty confident about WAR too if you recall.
Bottom line is, this, and all your dancing and ignoring facts and MMO history won't save this.
Unless this game is an online revolution, it will be a financial failure, and the company stands to NOT be making money for at LEAST 2 years.
I seem to recall WAR sold a ton of copies, and then didnt give players content.
I like how you keep trying to twist things to fit your agenda.
So here we go again, first it was trying to compare a game vs another and its expansion, now it is a PVP game vs a story based themepark.
We all know what the market has shown....if you give a buggy launch, and nothing to do, then subs drop lke hotcakes. LoTRO is the only AAA to really do good with NA sub retention, at launch, since WoW.
Anything else you wanna keep repeating?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It doesn't have to be an online revolution, it just has to appeal to the average person.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
In orange. I skipped some of your comments, they were just too silly to make a sensible comment about.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Gosh, someone sure is rage posting in this thread.
SoE didn't break the space game. Read my statement above. If it were so "great", more people would be PLAYING SWG specifically FOR space! They aren't. Space is empty. It isn't nearly the draw you think it is. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned.
Like this. Some people might like to see SW:TOR fail for whatever morbid reason, but there can be no dancing on the graves whatsoever until something is live first. For the rest it's all speculation up till then, it's funny though how people are complaining how SW:TOR has too high a budget and can easily believe those shaky figures, while at the same time doubting that there'll be a vast amount of content and Planets to explore. Simply hilarious how illogical the human mind in some cases of some people works.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I fail to see why this is unprofessional. All of Bioware games I can think of are pretty directed content (=heavily story driven) games. Star Wars always and ever was based on a strong adventure plot structure with plenty of cliff-hangers and episodic action scenes (where heroes essentially stumble from trouble into more trouble). I cannot stress enough that this is at the very core of the experience and ever was, except in this one bizarro star warsl game, which was about things like the colonialisation of Tatooine or being a pikeneer or cook. Well, who ever dreamed of being a cook in the star wars universe. I realize there are fans for almost anything, but you have to see that this is a very, very minor minority that make people dressing up as star wars furries and attending conventions look like mainstream.
I fail to see why it was unprofessional to give a straight and honest, non-marketing answer.
As best described by one of the Bioware game directors: "Remember that part in star wars where Han and Chewy stopped and flew around exploring asteroids? We don't either."
Remember that part in Star Wars where half the population was Jedi, people gained levels, there was a market to buy and sell items, people upgraded gear, people shot infinite missiles from an arm cannon and quests were given out to kill things?
I don't either.
That's why they chose the era they did, because there were a lot more Jedi
And I recall seeing several markets throughout the movies. And while we never saw the number values, we definintely watched luke gain force power and new abilities. And people were given quests, as well.
Wuuuutt. Come on... ridiculous. It's a game. That's the point.
If we are going to follow your reasoning, then yes, I saw and was aware of spaceships out in space exploring and going places. There were ships going all over the place. They could turn right if they chose to. And believe it or not, they turned left too.
Star Wars space combat is about dogfights. The tunnel takes that excitement completely away, takes any tactical or strategic thought out and replaces it with button mashing.
Asking for space to not be in a tunnel does not necessarily mean wanting it to be a free roam sandbox. Anyone play Snoopy's Flying Ace from Xbox Arcade? There wasn't anything sandboxy about it at all, but I could at least fly around things, loop back, juke to dodge fire, etc. I didn't fly in that game to "explore," it was about shooting down other players or capturing the flag and other such excitement. And I didn't have to just go forward in a tunnel.
Playing: Eve, LoL
Played: EQ, SWG, EQII, MxO,DDO CoX, WoW, & LoTRO
Awaiting: GW2, Rift, Earthrise, TOR
Really, what I expect from a Star Wars space experience is similar to the Wing Commander experience.
I'd love it, but even if they didn't go that far . . . I'd like to just be able to fly around an asteroid to shake fire, rather than just move a little to the side to avoid hitting it until I reach the end of the map. I'd like it to matter, I guess, if they're going to bother.
Playing: Eve, LoL
Played: EQ, SWG, EQII, MxO,DDO CoX, WoW, & LoTRO
Awaiting: GW2, Rift, Earthrise, TOR
Rogue Squadron is pretty much a lightly modified tube shooter. It was a fantastic game as well and I still go back and nostalgia with it once a year or so just to beat it just because it is that good. If this game is even half as good as RS then I will be a happy man.
Personally, I don't think they ever intended on having space content in the game at launch. I think pressure from the community forced their hand and as a result, we have a sub-par space experience. I don't really see what's so wrong with waiting for an expansion to fully-flesh out the space combat. It was always a secondary priority when compared to ground content and should have been allowed time for the development team to truly sink their teeth to it.
I do think you are wrong.
II'd say it was one of the very first major decisions to include it at launch vs never add it. Check Gordon Walton for the SWG analysis (that's bull*** anyway).
Among other decisions another one, very controversial, that was taken long time ago too, was the choice of a WoW/Kotor like crafting system vs SWG's one.
Got a link to where they've said what their crafting system will be?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Star Wars isn't about space. I could go into more detail than that, but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.
There you go: clicky
"The big thing about crafting is that it will support combat in our game and it is very important. We haven't talked much about crafting, but we will in the future. People will be pleased with what we are coming up with for crafting. I think very pleased actually. It will not be to the extent of some of the games out there, like [Star Wars] Galaxies. It will be very similar to what WoW has. But it has some really cool twists that WoW doesn't have that I think people will like."
Regarding what we saw, I foresee the twists as part options for the weapons, maybe even different textures like:
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/smugglers-blaster
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/blaster
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/blaster-rifle
http://www.swtor.com/media/concepts/bounty-hunter